VT talk is the first topic on the pod, they talk about us for about 12 min. Nothing groundbreaking here, but he does a good of explaining the challenges that VT faces, while still focusing on the positives of the job. Highlights include:
New Hire Needs:
- VT needs a guy who understands the importance of 'family' at VT (similar to Clemson)
- VT needs someone like Dabo, who "Feels really lucky to have the job, and works hard to restore all of their relationships"
Recruiting:
- VT is/was best when they can mix blue chip recruits with a bunch of underrated players that they develop overtime
- One of the challenges VT (and similar programs, like Nebraska) face is how do they allocate recruiting resources. Do they put all their time/effort chasing a 5-stars, or do they focus on a high 3-star who could be developed into a great starter in 2 years?
- VT needs to own DC down to Charlotte, then be able to reach into Tennessee, Ohio, Pittsburg, etc for the occasional recruit
In general, lots of love for VT
- Lane Stadium is one of three stadiums in the country that actually shakes (Beaver, Camp Randal, and Lane). LOTS of Love for Lane - "that stadium moves, the way it moves, OOOOFF it's crazy"
- VT invented Thursday Night Football
- Beamer is great dude
As always, I recommend you listen for full context.
Forums:
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Comments
I agree with the points except when it comes to recruiting footprint. While I agree owning the DMV down to Charlotte should be primary focus, I miss having that little pipeline we had in FL. So many of our greats came from there.
I think that was just because the coaching staff had semi-randomly established relationships with some prominent high school coaches down there? Hypothetically the new coaching staff could have similar relationships in any other far flung but talent rich area and it'd work out the same. Kind of like what Fuente *tried* to do with Texas.
I agree with Felder 100%, especially given the population growth in the DC area and Charlotte/Raleigh. You clean up in that region and you can absolutely compete at the highest level.
Mike, you know as well as I do, they need to recruit these bigger CLT area schools big time. Lots of football talent at Mallard Creek, Hough, Weddington, Ardrey Kell. And that's not even getting into the big schools over in the Greensboro area. They could easily sell Tech to these kids as being close to home for weekend trips and easy drives for the family to come see them play.
2.5 to 3 hrs...coaches should be that area in person every chance they get
Charlie Wiles used to pop up at central NC high school games a lot. So at the very least he was getting after it down here.
Yes, and to add; Florida is a talent rich area where Blacksburg is a selling point.
Going to a small Virginia mountain town with seasons, snow, arguably less distractions than a UF, u Miami, etc and a world class education becomes intriguing and exotic to some Florida targets.
They know VT there, we have a history of success with Florida recruits.
I've said it since he was let go...VT would rue the day Charlie Wiles was let go.
Huh? Torrian Gray mainly recruited Florida, most of our players came from one high school. Flowers, Clooney, Hosley, Maddy, David were all from the same high school.
Wiles was a main recruiter for Florida - and signed a good number of the great Florida players. He was recruiting Florida before Gray came to VT (as a coach) and after he left. He was also the last connection to the Florida pipeline.
One of my biggest gripes over the last few years is what the hell happened to thrusday night games at Lane? I'm not blaming fu at all just a general thursday nights used to be what I felt was a tradition we need to get back to.
That would be a question I'd hope Whit would have an answer to...I miss those games as well. Used to go to them all the time when I was a student-there was one every year.
The NFL started doing Thursday night football after seeing how many eyeballs CFB was getting. And CFB backed off and moved to more Fridays.
That's true, but there has been ACC Thursday night football this year: I believe Wake-UVa and UVa-Miami were on TNF. It's not as much as there used to be, but it's still there.
My guess for why VT isn't on Thursdays as much is that they what to maximize viewership. How many viewers is ESPN really losing by putting a UVA game on Thursday competing with an NFL game? I bet that number is a lot smaller than if it's a VT game - even when we're mediocre we have a solid following.
I like Fridays better now to be honest.
Gives me a reason to miss a half day or more of work = 3 day weekend
Guaranteed night game
Doesn't take up my entire Saturday unless I'm hungover. Which also saves me some Sundays because of late night Saturday games and subsequent hangover.
Couple of things...when the NFL expanded TNF in 2012 to be essentially year-long, it really hurt CFB Thursdays.
Instead the only Football on in that timeslot, it became a competition with the NFL.
Also, with MAC-tion running in Primetime from Tuesday on, the unique aspect of mid-week Football has become diminished.
That's not to say there is Zero value in it, but it's not the same Showcase that it once was.
I think a significant portion of the fan base didn't want to travel to the burg for Thursday nights either, but there is probably a vocal portion of the fan base on both sides of that issue.
Really glad I got to see one of the special Thursday night games in person (2010 GT). It was an incredible experience and atmosphere. I also, unfortunately, saw one of the least special ones (2009 UNC).
Was also there for both of those games. I blame 09 on Brent Bowden's guitar strumming (facetiously). And that 2010 GT game...woo buddy. That Enter Sandman after David Wilson ran a bajillion mph was insane.
My 3 most memorable moments in Lane:
That was a fiasco in Weaver's last years. He was only in touch with the big money who didn't want to travel on a Thursday and didn't recognize just how prominent the games were for the program and how most everyone else loved them.
Weaver also killed Stick It In, started something called Hokies Respect, and among other things, gave a stiff shoulder to the fan base for his major donors long before Fuente came along.
I'm ok with Hokie Respect, but to hell with it when dealing with the Mountainqueers or the south florida scum.
'Mountainqueer' might be a tad too derogatory for 2021. How about the cousins or the motherfuckers instead?
yeah, we're not gonna use that slur here. plenty of lgbtq hokies including on this board, i respect them too much to let that slide as an insult and also respect them too much to let anyone associate them with WVU
We aren't winning. and when we do win, its not via exciting football
Allegedly, Thursday Night games are not popular with donors. I've also ready that no one (VT or ESPN) wants to put a good game on a Thursday. Some say that a ranked vs ranked game will always get more viewers on a Saturday than a Thursday. That means that the next best option is putting a game like VT vs BC or Duke on a Thursday, but no one wants to tune in on a Thursday for a boring game.
However, I believe that everyone is too much of a pussy to compete directly with the NFL for TV time. And personally, that pisses me off.
Over the years I've told the local PSU folks that once they have a Thursday night game, they'll never want to have another game at any other time. They have given me exactly this response - especially with PSU having an older alumni base than we do, they just do not want to travel during the week. Too much life disruption to get in and out of State College during the workweek. I can only imagine that its even harder with Blacksburg being so so far away from the population centers where our alumni are living.
I love Thursday games even more as an alum/adult. You can make it a long weekend and take time to enjoy the NRV.
Are you in State College, or just a PSU "rich" environment?
Straight up State College. Beaver Stadium scoreboard visible out my front window
You have a beaver score board out you front window ... maybe have a little more discretion when it comes to your relationships.
obviously/s
Re:
"VT needs to own DC down to Charlotte, then be able to reach into Tennessee, Ohio, Pittsburg, etc for the occasional recruit"
Expand that to NE Georgia and rebuild the Florida connections, then try and rebuild connections with parochial schools in Maryland, Jersey, and Pennsylvania. Especially in the early and mid 90s, a lot of good players came from Maryland-northwards.
Yep, GA needs to remain the priority level it has seemingly been the last few years. They are rapidly approaching the Big 3 States in terms of HS talent produced, and we seem to have established some pipelines there. Regaining FL should be possible as well. Three of my favorite croots in this class, and as such three of the players I want to see us hang on to through the regime change, are the GA boys Daequan Wright, Malcolm Jones, and Devin Farrell.
Hit NJ, SC, Tennessee, etc. when we need to.
We have pipelines into GA, TN, SC, and now Alabama. We haven't really hit on Florida kids as much with Fuente, but we entered Texas.
We do need to clean up in state and across the DMV and NC. UNC taking all these 4 and 5 star players only hurts us, cause they aren't playing for us, UNC's poor record be damned. Keeping Razor Ramon and Gunner Givens will be a major recruiting test 1A for the new staff. Keeping our committed QBs will be recruiting test 1B.
Charlie Wiles had the reputation and relationship with the Florida coaches. Fuente letting him go dried up that pipeline.
I honestly don't care where we get our recruits from, at long as we're winning.
But I think Frank Beamer is right, there's enough talent within the 6 hour radius of Blacksburg to win a national championship.
Agree. 4 star recruits that pan out are just that- whether they are from Alaska or Maine or Virginia. I do however think that "A" path to VT becoming relevant again is to become the clear premier program in the state again among high school kids. If we can do that, we can increase our talent from Va/MD/DC again. I don't buy into the notion that Va talent is down at all when the top players sign with Penn state, clemson, bama, etc.
The sad thing is if we don't get this hire right, Liberty actually might become the clear premier program in the state within the next ten years. There's too much dirty money in Lynchburg, I could easily see them making a jump to a P5 if they keep on with their trajectory.
Sad thing is it isn't dirty money. It is online student money driving them.
Being a diploma mill for over 100k online students might meet some people's definition of "dirty money", but I think we're close to tip-toeing the line established by the CGs here if not over it entirely.
VA Blue Chip Croots 2022 Class:
Zach Rice - UNC
Shawn Murphy - Bama
Andre Greene Jr - Choosing this week between Clemson, UNC, and UGA (last smoke I read, UNC)
George Pettaway - UNC
Tychaun Chapman - UNC
Sherrod Covil - Clemson
Gunner Givens - VT (A welcome return to the top 10)
Tayon Holloway - UNC
Ramon Brown - VT (another welcome return)
Tevin White - Arizona State
Aiden Gobaira - Notre Dame
Benji Gosnell - Uncommitted (possibly VT)
If we can start winning even 4-7 of these VA blue-chip croots every year that's a major upgrade.
Whit needs to show the new coach that we are absolutely getting our asses kicked by a 5 loss UNC program 200 miles down the road. That's where our recruiting is. We aren't losing our ass to Bama, we are getting crushed by a team that's going to the Dukes mayo bowl at best this year with a first round NFL QB. Seems like low hanging fruit to me.
Heartbreaking and disgusting to see this
Reprehensible even
This is what we need to fix ASAP.
If we started recruiting VA and NC at that specific level listed in this tweet, we would be on a the fast track to another ten win streak.
We've never recruit VA that well, we'd be vying for a title if we did that.
This is what I want from our new coach. We need to put up a fence around the state of VA and get these guys in O&M. We sure as shit shouldn't be losing them to a basketball school coached by an old man. How much of UNC's success in VA is because of our crappy relationships with VA coaches?
It's hard to say since we have had bad relationships with VA high schools for almost 20 years now. The only year in the past 15 that we got more than 3 of the top 10 VA players was the year they didn't pan out (Caleb, Coleman, Trey Edmunds, Clarke and Ekanem). Ekanem was the only one that really stood out. I am not sure what we did wrong with Trey cause he had the talent.
He got hurt a lot
Mack retiring might be the best thing that can happen for us regarding those recruits. We need the new coach ASAP to get on the trail.
There's no way in hell that Mack announces his retirement before ESD. Waiting until after is exactly the kind of shady thing that program would do to further its own interests.
There is history and precedent for players asking for release (and getting it) after coaching changes.
i think folks by and large have incorrectly conflated "757 isn't such a deep hotbed of talent as it was years ago" with "VA talent is down overall" -- of those 12 blue chippers, 4 are from 757. It's not that VA as a whole is down at all really, just that the talent just isn't as concentrated to the 757 as it was 5-10-15 years ago. And there is a much wider variance in terms of year-to-year change in in-state bluechippers.
Some really down years in the 757 probably gave it a worse reputation than it warrants, but VA as a whole doesn't look so down. Just that the last few years of 757 talent relative to the rest of VA was down. The historical rate from 2005 to 2022 classes in VA indicate that ~35% of the blue chip talent in VA has come from 757 with the median annual rate being 37.5%... only 2/5 most recent classes (and 3/7) meet those historical thresholds.
I don't think it changes the message, but does this control for rating inflation?
no. just raw #s of blue chippers in VA/757. no adjustment for number of blue chippers nationally. i dont think that adjustment changes much, there's still 7-11 four or five star recruits in VA in a given typical year.
It's easier to recruit when your assistants don't have to travel to somewhere outside of a 6 hour radius of your campus so that you can give the kids more personal attention. That goes a long way....trying to make inroads in Texas was folly from the beginning when other schools in the state could visit much more frequently and get in a recruits ear about being closer to home (the recruiting results pretty much bear that out). I'll be shocked (but very pleasantly surprised) if we keep Orji in this class and he signs a LOI. Fingers crossed.
The new coach should be hitting home the point that we just had two players picked in the first round of the NFL draft-that's a huge selling point.
And that it's happened twice in the last 4 years one of which was a set of brothers, because at Virginia Tech family matters
I don't have data on any other schools, but we have gotten a lot of second (and third) brothers into our program. Stroman, Holifield are recent ones.
Absolutely, we have a tradition of getting brothers reaching all the way back to the Vick brothers and their cousin. It's something we can pitch. "You wanna see your equally as talented brothers play in the league with you, we've done it multiple times." Family matters to people and I think it's a good recruiting pitch
It's not about state pride, it's about building a cohesive recruiting strategy that matches your resources.
Beamer may have been right in 2005 (he wasn't IMO), but he's definitely not right in 2021.
Fact...and I enjoyed being a part of it...also Gameday wouldn't be what it is without VT!
And noon games in CFB used to be the shit.
Times change...
Why not just split the difference and load up on all the 4 stars we can get
That was pretty good, better than all the other non-TKP analysis I have heard. Felder seemed to know his VT history which made his takes much more palatable and I think he his some nails on the head. Good to hear an informed opinion from outside the circle.