This is some terrific reporting from Mike Niziolek: https://roanoke.com/sports/college/va_tech/how-former-virginia-tech-coac....
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This is some terrific reporting from Mike Niziolek: https://roanoke.com/sports/college/va_tech/how-former-virginia-tech-coac....
Comments
This excerpt is in the other thread, but since it is from this article, thought it relevant here too:
I still say Corn has some dirt on Fu
This was the negative highlight for me as I was reading. This is total BS for a coordinator to operate like this and CornLsen has no business being a coach at any level. Getting rid of him might not have saved his job, but this is a huge issue that Fuente had the opportunity to address and change as the leader of this team and he failed to do it.
If I were an AD looking to hire Fuente as head coach in the future, I would specifically ask him about this excerpt in this article and ask why this was allowed to happen under his watch. (after independently vetting to make sure those sources were accurate, of course)
I'm being a bit snarky, but if you were an AD why would you have any reason to want to consider Fuente after this article and the last 6 years on his resume? He looks like a toxic no hire, and unless he gets enrolled in the Nick Saban Charm School I dont know how he's ever going to be a HC again.
Lie
And tell him there is 0 way Cornelson is joining his staff.
Edit: removed because technology is hard
I believe Corn was running exactly what Fuente wanted him to run.
I vote that we affectionately remember the little TE pop pass he called occasionally as the Corn Pop.
You win sir
He's one bad dude!
That's some high school level coaching. Infuriating to see it confirmed, but it became more and more obvious that this was the case over time.
If you're recruiting for Virginia Tech and you can't go get an athlete you trust to actually run an offense, then quit.
Can we just turn off Corny's headset the rest of the year and let Burmeister call his own plays?
Sooo... I've been coaching football for a long time (mostly at the JV and Varsity levels) and we've never treated a QB like this. As we help these very young QB's we begin by teaching them single reads (make the decision! Right or Wrong we simply want them to learn and grow.), then we move to teaching them how to see one side of the field... So on and so forth.
By the time they are JRs and Srs they are doing much more than Cornelsen asks of his QBs.
This guy shouldn't even be coaching high school football if this is actually what his system looks like.
clearly you're doing it wrong. you could be a D1 coach in the ACC if you learned how to coach QBs properly.
Two hard-and-fast rules you need to learn quick. Never, and I mean never, trust your QB and then latch onto the teet of your up and coming BFF to destroy their career later.
Now, go forth and profit from these learnings.
Man I had been thinking this all along . No way any qb that would hand off constantly when DE would be crashing in on a read . Such a crap situation for any qb to be in .
Holy shit. I mean we knew it has been bad but holy shit.
Literally has to be the dumbest offensive scheme/approach ever. If a receiver is covered, why does it make sense to still throw the ball there? Because that's the way you drew it up? And predetermining whether to hand off or keep on the read option completely defeats the entire point and effectiveness of the read option play.
You have a game plan that is supposed to be based on misdirection and allowing the QB to make reads and reacting to what the defense does. And in that scheme you purposely take away the ability of the QB to actually make those reads and predetermine where the ball is going to go on every snap?
No fucking wonder we've seen players mail it in when the play isn't coming to their side of the field. No wonder we've had games where it looks like the defense is absolutely keyed in on everything we do on every play. Its because that's exactly what has been happening.
I mean I can understand the play caller calling a certain play based upon a pre-snap look. If they show this coverage, we are going to run these particular plays against it. But if you don't allow your QB to make post-snap reads, you are completely handcuffing your offense. Defenses do actually disguise coverages. This just signals that Corn has absolutely no idea what he is doing, and likely neither does Fu if he was ok with this. This is peewee league football.
It was clear that they didn't trust the players, but this takes it to another level. Mind-boggling
I have to wonder how Corn remains with the team and finish out the year after this.
See we all had a sneaking suspicion this was happening. Hell I'm pretty sure French mentioned it in passing in multiple game films about the wtf reads. Having it confirmed by a source just hits much much harder. How was this guy ever a P5 Coordinator. An entire misdirection read option offense and there's no read or option aspect to the offense. How is anyone supposed to play in that? I don't care if we had Michael Vick back there it wasn't going to happen.
https://www.thekeyplay.com/comment/1070136#comment-1070136
This was one of many times it was theorized over the years (it was a relatively recent example) that the reads were predetermined, which isn't totally uncommon as I mention in this comment, but this article makes it seem like they were almost all predetermined which is an insane way to run an offense.
Right I guess I should qualify that that's my outrage that all plays were predetermined. Even more compelling is that passes were too. Think about how many wide open guys BB hasn't "seen" this year. Is it so bad that he might see them but he knows he's gonna get ripped for passing to them???
Even more damning when you look at how Hooker was here vs what Hooker has done at Tennessee combined with the social media narrative (perpetuated by people close to HH) that his hands were no longer tied at Tenn.
Putting all these pieces together just hurts. I mean I knew we had some issues and I figured Corn was a part but this is like gluing all my suspicions together. The only thing I don't get is why Fu stuck with him when it continuously didn't work.
And that's why he doesn't have a job anymore.
Bingo. Like I said in that "Perspectives" post, at the end of the day, Fuente chose to keep his BFF (Cornelson) as OC instead of firing him and letting everyone else on the staff keep their jobs.
Putting all these pieces together just hurts
It doesn't hurt, it actually makes me mad. It gives credence to the thought that keeps popping into my head that Fuente is not actually a good person. Whether he's just flat out ignorant, obtuse or legitimately a control freak by allowing this to happen, it is a very bad quality to have in a head coach and his staff.
That would also explain why no QB has improved. They aren't allowed to learn by reading defenses and adapting.
Having a read option where the QB isn't allowed to read and choose an option is a great recipe to get that QB's ass lit up over the course of a season. Basically, if you are a defender and you know there is no read actually happening, there's no reason to respect the read, because they're not reacting to you. Just light the QB up every time, 50% of the time you'll TFL, and those repeated hits will eventually take their toll and probably cause the opponent to eventually use their backup.
Funny, that's pretty much exactly what happened to us the last few years.
All of which vindicates the Jerod Evans interview and why Jerod left after that single year. As I noted before, it's amazing Evans was able to do what he did given how hamstrung he really was.
no man, that was just sour grapes
Yup, and you just know that if Fu hadn't been let go on Tuesday that there would be somebody saying the same thing about this article and defending him now.
From what I have seen, Fu seems like a personable dude to hang out with, but Corn was his best man, and so he put his best buddy above VT and his career. Maybe that decision worked for him because after all he and Corn will be friends long after their careers are done. But it was a very selfish decision for the damage it did to the school/program and the young men who played for VT. He should have just resigned and left if he was going to protect his friend like that. And THAT is the only reason I am somewhat resentful of him getting the buyout.
This also means our QBs caught some criticism for bad reads they didn't deserve. I'm not blaming those doing the analysis, BTW. If the QB throws to the double covered guy instead of the wide open guy, the obvious conclusion would be that it was a misread. It would never cross my mind that the QB was only given a predetermined target and wasn't allowed to choose who to throw to and that throwing to the open guy would catch him an ass chewing. That makes no sense at all.
No wonder all our QBs left.
Hooker at UT said the same thing last week I his interview, but it was coded language. He said unlike VT, at UT I can be who I am. They trust me to do the right thing.
That summarizes it. Now we know why Cornelson has had so much turnover through transfers.
I wonder if HH was his source.
I wondered that as well. Or if it was Turner's mom. Could be lots of people. Even Evans.
I don't know, I think that is too easy. Niziolek has proven to be pretty damn good, he's got an insider, I am sure
The way some of the sourced quotes were, it sounds like a staffer that is still there this year. It doesn't read like Tre's mom, nor a guy that isn't on the team this year.
From the RT story:
This doesn't sound like HH was the source.
or Jerry Kill, for that matter
I agree that Kill didn't make that comment, but some of the other comments talking about last could have come from him. I would think the information in this article was gained from multiple sources.
yeah, I agree that there were definitely multiple sources and Kill very well could have been one of them. But anything about this season wouldn't have been Kill.
Agree with this after rereading the article.
For the specifics about Burmeister you would have to imagine it's someone on the team this year.
Not gonna speculate too much but the way this article is written it would lead me to believe it is someone with access to the QB room.
I guess he really wanted to get certain things on tape so he could set up all his misdirection and then tell the QB where the open man would be and force him to throw even if they defense didn't bite?
This really tracks with Fuente's "expected outcomes" mantra. Also it is infuriating to think that our HC and OC are this bad/dumb.
This confirms a lot of the speculation I've heard on here, through multiple sources. Fuente will be a better coach in the future if he can read this with an open heart and mind. He was not quite ready for the chance when it came, but with the way college football works, he will get another chance, and deserves it if he learns from these mistakes.
I mean big picture here, he's not a P5 head coach, or at least not one for a program with a proud history. His unwillingness to engage with fans and former players is going to ruffle feathers at any bigger program. A middling G5 might be his ceiling until he can truly honestly realize why things went south here and make a conscious effort to chance them. But I just don't know if that's the kind of guy he is. Which is fine, not everyone has the personality to be that.
But first he needs to realize that he cannot ride or die with assistant coaches going forward. Hearing these stories about Cornelson knowing that Fuente could have replaced him in any of the previous 3 seasons and still saved his own job... Loyalty is good, but you can't allow others to take advantage of that loyalty.
I cannot believe running the offense that way was Corn's call. It had to come from the top down. It will be interesting to see if he keeps calling it that way for the next to games, or if the QB's are allowed to make a read.
Or maybe BB will just make the read knowing he won't have to worry about it next year.
If we see BB3 turn to the sidelines or the booth at some point and show double Hokie birds to Corny, we'll know how he feels
Best gif ever
It makes sense if your goal is to make sure everyone knows you're the Sooper Genius Offensive Coordinator making things go. Unfortunately when the offense doesn't work, you look like a moron.
This sounds like coaching scared. I wonder how much of this micromanagement of the in-play decisions went on in previous years.
Scared money apparently still makes 8.75 mil.. Sigh.
"Scared money don't make money" happens to be Napier's catchphrase. It's meant to be...
My thought was more about Corny than Fuente but the trust issues mentioned in the article could indicate that too.
Excellent article and hits on most of the gripes fans have with Whit, Fuente and Co. I wonder how much they are aware of it?
Isn't it usually good business just to give an AD a heads up or ask for permission if you're looking to interview one of their guys who is under contract? Is this only in the pros, or is this college as well? Because, something seems off about this. Fuente had no intention of taking the Baylor job, but hid the fact that he actually formally interviewed for it from his boss? If your actual intention was just to do the guy a favor, why the hell would you not give your actual boss a heads up, just in case it did leak out.
I think this is usually how things work in the pros - not sure how/if it applies at the college level. Regardless, for Fuente - Dude owed Whit at least a phone call before he took the interview to tell him 'hey, I'm not planning on leaving but I'm going to give him an interview out of professional respect." That would have avoided a significant immediate issue internally and then allowed Whit to say "yeah fans, Justin told me and I understood the respect aspects, and Justin is staying here because he sees the passion and potential yadda yadda yadda..." in other words, Whit could have spun this as a HUGE positive instead of dealing with damage control if Fuente had just told him ahead of time.
The idea that Fuente interviewed for a job that he had no intention of taking is just ludicrous anyways. Why waste people's time if you know you're not interested? It doesn't make any sense. More likely the interview was real and just didn't work out for one reason or another, and then after Fuente got caught he had to cover his ass with some lame excuse.
Interview may be a strong word for what it was. You take meetings so as not to burn bridges. It's relationship building and even if he had no intention of taking the job, he felt it was professional courtesy to hear them out. It could also have been a bit of benchmarking, too. He determined that VT was under supported on the recruiting staff front.
I don't have nearly the angst over the Baylor thing that other people had. It happens all the time across all businesses especially at the higher levels.
You take meetings so as not to burn bridges. It's relationship building and even if he had no intention of taking the job, he felt it was professional courtesy to hear them out.
Or not. Don't waste people's time. I just had an old friend call me asking me to interview for a job. I knew I wouldn't take it so I said sorry, no thanks, immediately.
I think the coaching business you need to keep stronger relationships due to the amount of turnover.
All depends on your situation. In coaching, it's vital to keep connections because you can lose your job in an instant. As a young professional that's always willing to move up in some form or fashion, I'm taking all interviews. For 1 to gain the experience of interviewing with different people. 2- To build that connection, I might not take this job but maybe the person I interview with takes a job two years later with the biggest baddest mf in my profession and they end up with an opening. Now I have a connection to get that interview and potentially get that better job. It's not what you know, it's who you know! Always be connecting!
Coffee is for... connectors?
j/k, your advice is spot on. Plus, interviewing is a skill like any other. It takes practice to do it well, and like you said, you never know when you make that connection that ends up being important down the road.
As a young professional that's always willing to move up in some form or fashion, I'm taking all interviews.
That's fair. I suppose this is where I differ from many people. I'm an entrepreneur, my own boss, have built a lifestyle and interviewing is akin to walking across broken glass for a multitude of reasons.
Yeah, I don't get why people seem to see this as a negative. If he had left in the middle of a game to take an interview, sure, be pissed. But being a coach is a job and it isn't some kind of betrayal to have your ears open for another opportunity, even if it doesn't pan out.
There are plenty of things to dislike in how programs are run or disagreements about decisions that are made, but this is a silly thing to get hung up on. Do we hold it against coaches from other programs that might be interviewing for the VT position?
edit: or for that matter, do we hold it against VT that there may have been behind the scenes discussions while Fuente was still the coach this year?
I don't care that he interviewed. I care that he is trying to say that he had no intention of taking the job while at the same time keeping all of this hidden from his current boss. Just seems like a terrible lapse of judgement on his part, thinking that he could guarantee that it would never become public.
I'm not sure when you have so many lapses in judgement they can still be counted as lapses
My angst isn't with the fact that he interviewed. It was with the timing. If he'd taken the job, we'd have been high & dry looking for a coach. It was January. Nobody was on the market.
Fuente had no control over the timing - and that is the reality of coaching searches. Sometimes positions open at inconvenient times.
And while you say "nobody was available", that's actually not true. We could have poached a coach from another school just like Baylor did.
My angst is that he didn't get offered and take the Baylor job.
In fairness, I was in one interview where it was blatantly obvious that the person interviewing me had no interest in speaking with me and it was a chore. He was trying to do some combination of (1) get done with it (2) get across without saying it directly that PhD recipients should not apply outside of academia and (3) let me show how much of an uninformed jackass he can be. And he got pissed when I figured this out quickly and gave crap right back to him. When he asked me why I was not willing to volunteer to work 50-80 hours a week 7 days a week doing something that I did not enjoy that was paying me dramatically less than Burger King I responded "because I'm not an idiot."
Also applied to one job at a place that shall remain nameless - although it is a school we all know well, wink-wink - where I am pretty sure they had already hired someone under the table or decided who they were hiring but had to post the job to meet some requirement or other as the job was filled a couple hours after the posting of resumes closed.
The way places treat candidates, I can see someone (not Fuente here, just someone in general) interviewing for a job you have no interest in taking to get practice with interviewing or to just annoy HR people.
Not unique. When my wife got her full time position at NCSU (she has since left), they were legally obligated to post and interview for the job despite already having it internally filled because it was a public job. Was absolute bullshit to everyone involved, and unfortunately they had to do this kind of thing often.
When I've interviewed with other places and not told my current boss ahead of time, it was because I planned on leaving if I got an offer. If I was interviewing as a courtesy/it was an opportunity too good to ignore, I gave my boss a heads-up about my situation.
Maybe I'm the weirdo?
I did the same when a big opportunity popped up. I told my boss and she helped me bend HR over a barrel and got me a sweet raise.
pretty sure I heard through the grapevine that Fuente was basically offered the Baylor job but they couldn't agree to terms. Something along the lines of Fuente wanted to bring his entire staff with him and Baylor wasn't on board with that. Never did hear which assistants Baylor wasn't enamored with, but the way some of our assistant coaches have performed I could take a guess...
If that was the case, they probably wanted Bud and he was never going to move to Texas.
bud was already retired at that time
Bud and Justin were paired up at VT, but they weren't going to move anywhere else together.
This article **almost** makes me feel bad for Fuente
I'm having the opposite feeling - I want to know why all of this was tolerated and why he was allowed to stay around for 6 seasons. I'm actually quite pissed to be honest.
Yeah, when you put it that way I agree....I guess I was thinking I almost feel bad in that in all likelihood, a new OC a year or two ago, some freedom for the QB, and an improved offense, and we're likely running the Coastal at this point, completely happy with Fu...he was either too blind, too loyal, or too compromised (I'm tellin ya Corn has dirt on him) to dump Corn and save himself.
But yeah, from the administrative side, this should not have been tolerated as long as it was.
Friend gave me a theory last night. Fuente came to Tech with two people he was truly the closet with Galen Scott and Corn. When Galen got forced out Fuente circles the wagons around Corn and just wouldn't stop protecting him.
I get that as a person and that theory sounds entirely plausible...but man, the university is paying you over $3M a year and the guy you are protecting over $200K a year.....I'm just at a loss for words to comprehend this type of logic...
I thought Corn was making ~400k a year currently. Math still works out for not keeping him so you don't lose your millions but Corn is still getting paid entirely too much for what he is putting on the field.
Oh Geez, my bad, and now I'm even more dumb-founded....FFS, why did Fuente keep him on staff???
Fuente has 10 million reasons not to care too much
8.75 i guess
Scott being forced out was his own damned fault. If Fuente held that against Whit or the school he was being pretty unreasonable.
I seriously doubt Fuente held what happened to Scott against anybody but Scott.
Didn't say he did. I was just saying IF HF's friend's theory was correct, Fuente's thinking is absurd.
I was agreeing with you.
Gotcha. Wasn't sure. Have a couple legs.
I don't think HF's friend is implying that Fuente held it against Whit or the school, just that he only had one true confidant/friend left and he became more defensive/protective, it wasn't "you took my friend away you can't have this one" but "shit I've only got one guy left, I want to keep him around"
Yes this his/my theory.
This has to be one of the most stark analysis articles I have read on a coaching tenure. As most suspected, Fuente's undying loyalty to Corny was the main reason for his downfall. That and arrogance and stubbornness. So really the same thing.
I'll respectfully disagree - Corn has a lot to do with it, but there are many more points here made in the article that indicate missteps in several areas. Corn was one of just many mistakes (albeit a big one).
I bet Ryan Willis got an ear full at the meeting after the UNC game where he pulled the ball and ran 50 yards untouched.
Willis was probably getting an earful after every drive.
What's crazy is if he had moved on prior to 2019 or even 2020 season he would probably still have the job because he never lost the locker room.
Fuente became a 'man on an island' you say?
Seriously folks, how is this not plaid already?
Update, this "song" from these two clowns got stuck in my head when I made that picture, and I can't make it stop. I 100% regret my actions.
Makes you wonder about those wide open receivers that everyone thought bb3 wasn't seeing. Maybe he was seeing them and was intentionally not throwing to them. Also puts a lot more context on Hookers comments on why he left.
Hope JC is going to tell BB to go ball out and for corny to knock it off and let the QB be a QB.
Holy shit if that happens, we might have an 800 yard offense game. Nobody would be able to predict what plays are happening and where the ball is going presnap like they do now.
That assumes the players are prepared to run an offense that doesn't have the coaches telling them exactly what to do before every play.
This also assumed JC is going to tell Corn to go F himself and stay off BB's back when he does a read that is not predetermined.
That's when you go backyard rules and draw the plays up on the ball in the huddle
Is that a switch that a QB can just flip in his mind? You'd like to think someone could just go out and have fun playing some yard ball, but people are creatures of habit too.
Edit: Same with receivers when they know the "RPO" is a handoff only or a pass play is going to the other side of the field. Can they turn it on? Apparent timing routes were never intended to be thrown, can they all of a sudden hit on a timing route? Are their signals and calls even usable or valid in an offense where things aren't predetermined?
Your answer to this entire deal is no and on RPO your bigger issue would be the line but all of our RPOs have always been more of a play action anyways so I'm not sure that we'd even run a true RPO.
Speaking of the OL, if everyone knows it's a pass, not a run, what's with all the ineligible downfield penalties?
I had the same thought about Hooker's comment. This article definitely gives the comment more weight.
Reminds me of that story when Jerry Kill was brought onboard as an advisor and told Fuente that Cornelson was way over his head as OC. I believe it was Kill who convinced Fuente to make Hooker QB1. Geez us, what could have been....
Holy shit, was Corny playing NCAA football and using that for playcalling? "NO, DAMMIT! I PRESSED X! X!"
Fu is so ride-or-die with Corny's lack of an innovative offense that they rode predetermined throws to covered WRs right into the expected outcome of losing their jobs
this is also why Hooker and Evans were the best QBs in the system -- enough arm talent to sometimes make that first difficult throw, but quick enough scrambling to Nope.gif and bail out for some positive yards instead of a pick or incompletion
Dinner at the Cornelsen house tonight will be awkward if they read this article.
Honestly, is this guy going to have a job where he gets paid to coach football next year? How can anyone read this article and think "This is the guy for my team"? If I'm hiring Fuente, I tell him up front that Corn is a no-go.
Corn will almost certainly never have a P5 job again..maybe as an Analyst but I doubt even that because he apparently can't break down film for shit.
Anyone with any sense considering hiring Fuente in the future would have to insist that Corn is not included.
My takeaway from this...hire Shane Beamer! 🤷🏻♂️
Not at this time.
How about we let Shane create his own legacy at University of South Carolina. I wish him nothing but the best.
I honestly don't think any VT AD with half a brain would hire Shane unless he proves to be a Saban-esque genius. Think about it, if Shane wound up in the Fuente mold (not great but also not truly terrible)... do you really want to be the guy who has to fire Shane Beamer from Frank Beamer's school?
If Shane is successful at USCe for the duration of the next VT coach, then it would be great to get him to come back home. But let him prove himself for 3-4 more years. USCe is moving the right direction, let that continue to build.
100% agree with this. Let him get the experience and (hopefully) proven track record. Don't rush it just because of his last name.
This week when asked about the VT job he said it was nice living in Blacksburg and playing for VT but South Carolina is home for him and his family. Seemed like a pretty convicting rebuke to me.
Shane strikes me as someone who is appreciative of the opportunities that his last name provides but ultimately wants to be his own man (that's not based on anything, that's just my conjecture).
I don't think he has any desire to take on the VT job now. In 2016 yes, but not now.
He hasn't earned it yet.
He knows it, most of us know it.
I watched that part of his presser, too. He seemed convincing, but almost a little too convincing. I don't think he wants the job here until he knows he can be successful.
I will say this, I love his personality in the press conference.
Making lots of money and living some place with mild winter is better than making a lot of similar money living somewhere with cold winters
If he proves himself at USCe he's gonna be a bigtime candidate for just about anywhere, that's arguably the hardest role in College Football.
Would he *want* to "come home"? Who knows. My dad was not Frank Beamer, but was very successful in what he did in his career. I can tell you that I wouldn't want to follow in his footsteps.
Honestly I don't need an inside source to confirm this and I'm no x's and O's guy but even I could tell that the runs were predetermined. If you had told me cornelson would outlast fu I would have bet the house against that but here we are.
I also get people want to know why it all failed but to me it's clear Fuente didn't do the small things to endear himself to the fans and when youre not winning those things make it harder to keep a job. He should've jettisoned corn two years ago and definitely last season but somehow he's still in place. There are alot of things being said around the program right now and so much of it is just noise and it's tough to filter what's bullshit and what's actual info.
Corn only outlasted Fu because the parting of ways happened during the season. Corn is obviously a lame duck here.
Best gif I've seen in awhile. Great line in the context.
So Jerry Kill was right?
A lot of former players and families of players who have been ripping the VT coaches on Twitter are probably going to be proven right over the next few months now that it's over.
Fuente could have scapegoated his OC, hired a potato to call plays and would still be the head coach.
A literal potato. Yes, you are correct.
My first thought was going back to Kill's assessment that the offensive staff was busted. It makes so much more sense in hindsight.
GlaDOS for OC!
And we would have more than 5 wins this season with that potato with a headset
Think of the possible marketing campaign....
"This is Home-Fries"
Amazing. Alternate title for this article: "Predictable Outcomes"
Regarding the quarterbacks not allowed to make an actual read off a mesh point (as I suggested appeared to be the case in many reviews during the Fuente era), well...
Everything about Cornelsen is brow raising. My wife brought up an interesting point this evening. If he's that controlling at work, imagine how controlling he might be at home. Could be scary for his family.
I think it's fine to critique a coaches job performance. It's a very public thing. But to make assumptions about their personal life? Not cool.
Unless there is something concrete, lets just leave his family out of it.
That is extrapolating well beyond the data.
Expected outcomes, am I right?
I guess that 'minutiae' line makes a lot more sense in hindsight considering the man was micromanaging right down to the level of literally his QB's first decision from the snap.
Holy shit, you guys. The armchair quarterbacking being vindicated in such a manner is *far* worse than we could have ever imagined.
Between the Kill story, Evans on DonV, Hooker's success at Tenn, the baffling reads we've seen... this shouldn't be surprising news.
The only real question is why it was allowed to continue.
Because apparently they didn't know any better. Somehow, through all the years of coaching football, they really thought this is how you should run things in a P5 football program.
I think BB3 is a good qb. I think he's not progressing under Corn. I recall Ryan Willis having 2500 yards passing coming in for Jackson and next year he is throwing 5 interceptions and playing very poorly. There is something on the part of the offensive staff especially corn which is causing the qb s to regress
That "something" you are searching for is spelled:
I-n-c-o-m-p-e-t-e-n-c-e.
I read this article and all I think is that Fuente could've saved his job two years ago if he had shit canned Cornelson....that one section about him is so damning. I don't see how he ever gets a P5 job again, unless Fuente doesn't learn his lesson.
I think it's pretty telling how when Coach Fu was let go the players were all over social media spreading love. But nobody has said anything about corn. I didn't even know he had been officially fired till this morning.
Wait, what? I didn't think he'd been fired. Where is that official?
Where did you see he's officially been let go? I thought we are stuck with him for another two weeks.
It was on twitter I'll have to see if I can find it and figure out how to embed it
Fake account.
makes sense - I'd be shocked if it was true and we hadn't heard anything from Andy Bitter or Michael Niziolek
that said, if I were JC Price, one of my first orders of business would be firing Cornelsen and promoting someone else from the offensive staff to be the 'interim' OC
The issue is who?
My question is with all this new report coming out (if it's true). How can you keep him here?
Lechtenberg has been an OC (at Cent Conn State)
https://hokiesports.com/sports/football/roster/coaches/adam-lechtenberg/268
Adam Lechtenberg? It really doesn't matter. Anybody would be an upgrade. I'm pretty sure a toddler could do better than BC
My guess is Whit doesn't want that much turmoil or else he would have fired Corn when Fuente left.
I think Whit leaves those types of decisions to his coaches. Makes sense. He hires and fires the head guy and lets the head guy make the rest of the hiring/firing decisions. Good chance Fuente was fired because he refused to fire Cornelsen. Had he done so, Whit probably retains Fuente
Under normal circumstances I agree, but JC is an interim who is not likely being considered for the HC position. I don't think JC has any authority to make hiring/firing decisions as interim this late in the season.
this is a fair point
"Whit, I agree to take over this team that I am proud of and a proud alumnus of. However, I have one condition, and one condition only. Make Fu take the trash out with him."
I think it wouldn't happen till after Miami. I think they will want a little continuity with the rest of the staff for the rest of the week(Whit offered Fuente to coach the rest of the year). Mathematically we are still in the race for the coastal. If we lose Sat it wouldn't surprise me if he is fired then.
Don't get me wrong I would have preferred to keep Fuente over Corn, but it is what it is. I'm pretty sure this is his last year calling plays at VT now.
If it's not Corny's last year, we picked the wrong head coach.
I 100% agree but I have seen crazier shit happen in my life so you can't rule it out unfortunately.
Well I asked him on twitter. Have to see if he responds.
Has an interim head coach ever fired someone? It doesn't seem likely for lots of reasons.
For one thing, it's a very, very public calling out of someone that you may end up working with or for again.
I could be wrong here, but I don't think we can even assume JC even knows about this, as he probably hasn't been in the QB room and hasn't been involved with calling offensive plays, and like most coaches he probably does not read news articles on the team.
And even if he does know, I would think it's more likely that he handles it internally, putting someone else in charge of film review and talking to the QBs privately to tell them things have changed.
I think the idea of someone else calling plays the next 2 weeks is pretty much a dream.
what's your point?
Cronyism is part of why we got here. You can't put relationships above incompetence in these cases. If a guy is truly as incompetent at his job as everyone seems to think Corny is, I have no issue with calling him out in a very, very public way. He's been protected for far too long, why would you extend that courtesy to him? What is the point of protecting him even more than he's already been protected? It makes no sense, and just rewards his incompetence which sends the wrong message and is problematic on many levels.
If Cornelsen isn't as incompetent as we all think, he'll prove that in the future. If I'm JC Price, I take that gamble. Especially since I'm a defensive coach and BC is an offensive coach. If I believe he's really incompetent (and JC Price would be much more in tune with that than we would) I see no risk in firing him publicly. Best case, Cornelsen seals his own fate by completely failing to prove himself elsewhere, thus proving me right. Worst case, Cornelsen proves me wrong by going and blowing it up somewhere. Neither case really matters to me because he's an offensive guy and I'm a defensive guy.
How you handle these types of HR issues is what future employees look at. So far Whit has handled the Fuente parting pretty well, don't mess it up with something like this.
if I'm Whit, and I leave hiring/firing decisions to the HC I'm not worried about what future employees think of an interim coach firing a coordinator. The guys I'm looking to employ are Head Coaches who will hold the reigns on other decisions. It shouldn't concern them if I've let previous Head Coaches make their own decisions.
I don't have a problem firing Corn, been pretty vocal about that. The word 'publicly' is what caused me to be concerned with the statement.
ssm used the words "very, very public" and I was just using their words in my response.
I'm not advocating for Whit to fire Cornelsen either. Whit fired Fuente and hired JC Price as interim. I think it's fair and reasonable for Whit to only deal with hiring/firing the Head Coach and then let the HC make all other hiring/firing decisions. In that vein, if JC Price decides to fire Cornelsen that is out of Whit's hands and should have 0 impact on what future employees think of Whit. Whit is likely going to hire someone else at the end of this year and it won't matter to any of the prospective coaches that JC Price fired or didn't fire Cornelsen. Unless Whit fires Corn himself, I don't think there's any real concern that anyone would reasonably have about working for Whit if Cornelsen is fired.
My point is that even if an interim coach was allowed to fire someone, they won't do it in a publicly embarrassing way because people will remember that the *interim* coach did that.
and my point is, who cares? Nobody should be scared to fire underperforming employees. Cornelsen, by all accounts, is underperforming. I think JC Price would be absolutely justified in firing him and he shouldn't be afraid to do so.
An interim coach doesn't have the authority that a head coach does. In practice Whit makes all the strategic decisions like hiring/firing, and Price just handles the day to day operations like practice so that we field a team for the last 2-3 games of the season.
I doubt interim tag allows for full control of personnel decisions.
Agreed. Whit was pretty clear that the rest of the staff is under contract through mid-2022, except for Shibest whose contract is longer.
I believe that JC Price can take away play-calling duties from Corn, but I do not think that Price can cancel Corn's contract.
The assistants are all on annual, renewable letters of appointment. There is an official university process for reappointment or cancellation of the contract. Basically the assistants would have to be fired for cause at this point, which they could appeal and still get paid. If they resign/leave voluntarily that's a different story. But their contracts are structured a bit differently.
well, this complicates things. I Suppose I'd just "re-allocate" his responsibilities in that case. Make him sit in the corner and watch without actually firing him.
And maybe that what JC will do - I think he has that authority.
Yes, as a supervisor of any assistant, he can reassign duties as he sees fit.
only problem with that, unless it's made publicly known that a reassignment has occurred, is whoever does run the offense will get none of the credit if it's fantastic and none of the blame if it's garbage. Assume for a moment that it's the former, Cornelsen not only gets credit for work he didn't do which will propel him into yet another undeserved gig, but whoever really deserves the credit gets overlooked by everyone outside of the VT coaching staff.
Unless I can make it abundantly clear that Lechtenberg (or, whoever) is running the offense, I'd probably just leave Cornelsen in charge to hang himself
i think whit said they set aside money to buyout coaching staff contracts
He did. Just wanted to make it clear that there's a bit less leeway here as the assistants have different contract structures. It could very well be that Whit is discussing exits for them and mutually agreeable buyouts. Didn't want anyone to get the notion that more firings are imminent, especially with BS rumors going around Twitter (I deleted that thread after it was acknowledged to be a parody account saying Corn was fired).
How is "a source" terrific reporting?
Seems like cherry-picked quotes from somebody - god knows who, what their actual role is, or whether they might have some ulterior motivation - to feed red-meat to the "off with their heads" crowd to generate guaranteed clicks.
Presumably the reporter and the editors on staff found whoever "the source" is to be credible in their interviews. Maybe they have supporting documentation. If you refused to meet with anyone who wouldn't get on the record you wouldn't be able to speak with anyone in a position of power
sourced > presumed
However, sometimes a reporter has little choice if they want to get a story out.
After reading the article a second time, I doubt that the sources were players or former players (HH). I suspect one might have been Kill.
Also, the article gives me a vibe that Niziolek was grinding an axe. There wasn't anything reported that wasn't "fair game" but the way it was written seemed a little sharp to me.
grinding an axe or pandering to a crowd he knows hate Cornelsen and are tired of Fuente?
Either/or. Still felt a bit off to me. Professional media shouldn't really do either of those things, but that's a whole different topic.
I'm unsure how "professional" Michael Niziolek is in the sense you mean. He's in an industry that is struggling and he needs to look out for himself. To do that, he's making decisions and taking actions that will benefit him in some way. Being critical of Fuente while Fuente is employed puts him at risk of losing his media credentials. But as soon as Fuente is out the door, he's fair game and his reader base is absolutely going to eat up this article, which is good for the Roanoke times, and thus for him.
The media should never have an agenda and I'll leave it at that to avoid going out of CG bounds.
agreed.
Yes, you have to sell papers, but he's reporting the information that's been provided. Journalists have to vet and corroborate their #sauces. They can't just print something, then find out it's false, and then lose opportunities down the road, plus their credibility.
It's no different than say, JUGS, or others who closer to the program, dropping hints about the inner workings of the program. They can't just share anything. It's gotta have meat to it, or they lose credibility.
Toeing the line on CGs, the Washington Post once shared a long chain of events on how they could not corroborate a hit story on a high level person, and chose not to run the story, while another outlet did. The other outlet later retracted said story, but the public damage had been done.
That is to say, credibility is important for newspapers, journalists, and reporters. Losing that, for pushing quotes for an agenda can cost them their job, and future opportunities. Their careers depend on being right, 100% of the time.
Maybe back in the day. I guess we all have our own version of truth judging by the range of takes on a common subject. Whit says ignore the leaks.
I remember the article you're referring to, and it's an excellent example of people outside the media not understanding the fact checking/verification process actual outfits use, even for "anonymous" sources. A certain bad actor tried to plant a fake story through the Washington Post, the reporters did their due diligence, and fairly quickly realized that it was a lie and reported as such. Can get away with that with TexAgs, not an actual publication
I really don't like the insinuations you are making right now. Just because someone is critical of our former coach does not make them a tabloid bullshit artist. Calling his credibility in question is out of line, IMO
Crap, meant this in reply to dzilla, but I guess it applies to this entire subthread
I'm not questioning his credibility. I'm confident that his article was well researched and the sources he cites are well connected. He would get himself into a world of hurt if he didn't do his due diligence.
I'm referring more to motives and timing. He's been working on this article for months. It's possible that the timing is complete coincidence. It's also possible that this article dropping THE DAY AFTER Fuente's firing was announced was strategic. I'm not questioning MN's professionalism. I'm questioning his "professionalism" as defined by the comment I was referring to.
Is it unprofessional to report on things with some amount of bias or strategy? That's a whole other conversation that I'm not going to get into. But I understood the comment I was replying to to mean that "professional" media shouldn't be "grinding an axe" or "pandering to a crowd" and I don't think that is the type of professionalism at work here.
TL;DR: I'm not attacking MN's character or credibility in any way. He's working as a journalist within the structure of the industry as it is currently built. In order to survive, he has to be strategic and deliberate. That may not align with what some people think the media should do but that is the reality. I don't blame him one bit for looking out for himself in a dog-eat-dog world.
I will be honest, I think releasing the article after he was let go is less damaging to the man than releasing it while he was still employed.
Yeah maybe, except you could probably argue it was more damaging to Cornelsen than Fuente. Cornelsen still very much employed
Agreed, but HC's make articles and click bait not OC's.
Sadly, can you write a non damaging article on Cornelsen?
I didn't call out his credibility. My statement about agenda was about the media in general. I do stand by my opinion that the article seemed like he was grinding an axe in the tone that it was written. It wouldn't be the first time an RT reporter did this because they didn't like their interactions with a VT coach.
Just to piggyback on this, you don't see the same type of critical articles on college HCs as you do in the pros. That's across all sports. College HCs control who has access to their programs, if you lose access you've basically lost your job, especially at a smaller paper. Pro organizations can't do that.
I think about Loeffler getting all sorts of positive pub even though national media doesn't think very highly of him. VT beat writers had to sell him, they couldn't say Beamer made a bad hire.
He spent months putting this together per Twitter.
We all saw the firing from miles away, so as a beat writer, who has been very impressive this year with reporting football, the Etute situation, etc, he's had to be working his sources inside the locker room all season.
The axe fell, and he could finally finish the article.
Not Kill or former players. The sources (at least the one referencing read-options) reference events from this season, with Burmeister as QB.
True, but some of the other quotes talk about last year, specifically Liberty. That could have been Kill.
Kill was here in 2019 though, not 2020.
Niziolek does not have a "scholarly voice". This article reads like he talks/ask questions at pressers. He can come off as pestering at times, I do enjoy his work though.
Fuente did not have the ability to save his job by canning Cornelson. We've long known that these two are coinjoined brothers from different mothers. They literally share a football ideology and were committed to it with extreme tunnel vision. That is why they are often referred to as a single person, CornFu.
They have tunnel vision, blaming injuries, execution, bad luck, Covid, staff, recruiting, facilities, transfer portal and everything else other than their coaching and their system. There is no light at the end of their tunnel vision; it is more like a black hole that they will never be able to escape. How many examples did they need over the last 6 years to realize the problem might be them? They have long been in denial and this is the most public intervention two college coaches can experience. Will be interesting to see what steps they take after Blacksburg.
EDIT: And I bought what they were selling for 3.5 years and have slowly been working through my own denial. I am clear into Acceptance now as are the majority of fans. CornFu + Bud was never a combination that was going to take us all the way. I feel like a fool for believing it would. Hindsight is 20-20 though.
If this article is accurate, it sure does explain things. Burmeister "not seeing" wide open receivers. Burmeister "making the wrong reads" on the option. It also explains why Patterson and Hooker transferred. It is hard to believe a big time college coordinator would coach like this and it is even harder to believe that Fuente put up with it.
It's almost as if the head coach wanted it that way, and brought along and kept a coordinator who agreed that that was they way it would be done. Which sure does explain things, too.
Could also be why KK came in and threw that interception near our own goal line. That is where he was told to throw it on that play so he did.
Could also explain some of the wide receiver effort issues on plays where they know they have zero chance of getting the ball
I hope BB just ignores Corn the last 2 or 3 games and just slings it around. This just gives me anger towards Corn for essentially ruining these kids' college careers.
That's one of my biggest things. Pro scouts want QBs who can make multiple reads. If we were handicapping them, why would any QB who thinks they could play in the NFL want to come here?
Which is why we just saw 2 QBs leave and DD go to Auburn I bet.
On the other hand, now it makes sense why he didn't think Malik Willis could play QB for him. Willis has talent.
Yeahhh Fuente can shut the door on his way out. What a fool. I don't care how 'nice' he may be, his incompetence and unwavering loyalty to shit personnel have damaged this program and it's disturbing but not surprising to read the shitshow going on behind the scenes. What an absolute joke of a coach who has potentially ruined the future potential of scores of college students.
I personally feel that Cornelsen should be forced to do a press conference to address this article before his time is done. We deserve answers.
I don't care what he has to say. I just want him to get out of town.
I don't really care what he has to say either, I just don't think he should be able to skate away without facing some questions
To what end? We already think (know?) he can't coach.
or what though? He loses his job?
You think we would get any? I would expect a blanket denial and coachspeak.
I don't need to see him tarred and feathered on his way out the door. I just need to know he's gone.
Yeah just need to quietly jet sweep him from my mind.
Need to make sure there's no reads on the option - it's predetermined for him to be out the door.
I see what you did there. Classic. Cue the mic drop.
I don't need to see it, but I wouldn't mind it either.
I wouldn't mind
Seeing the responses to this comment, I must say, you guys are not nearly vindictive and petty enough. Frankly, it's disgusting.
s/?
I got downvoted for being petty. Now you're saying we're allowed to be petty?
I'm guessing he's not one of the ones who downvoted you.
I'd ask Whit Babcock why he tolerated this bush league stuff to go on so long and let his FB program be damaged to this level by it.
I'd not ask Corn, or even Fu, at this point simply because I'd not want to give them a platform to spout off with some other brain numbing BS. It's not like they're suddenly going to say "you're right, I've been so wrong on this!" so why give them the chance for anything else?
I loathe the word "deserve" but hell yea! Get the pitchforks and popcorn ready!
I am going to play devil's advocate a little here. Now that Florida has fired a coach after 3 years, I think it is good that we allowed Fuente to have essentially a full term to get our ship sailing straight. I was always an advocate of the 5 year plan because I thought it takes that long to really establish your program. Whit gave Fuente 6
Compared to other schools like FSU, Tenn, USC, and Texas, our AD has shown that he is willing to give a coach enough time to get everything in order. We don't like riding the coaching carousel so we hold onto our guy.
With any luck, some of these high-demand candidates will see that we are a stable program, Blacksburg is a place where you can win, and we don't have unrealistic expectations.
Virginia Tech: It just means less?
Hey, I know: "Virginia Tech: This is Home."
It would seem reasonable to go somewhere you have time to establish your system, assuming the coaches don't think results are just luck.
My point is that "we have lower/reasonable expectations" isn't the selling point people seem to think it is.
Similar to "early playing time."
VT has a great value proposition. But you're not starting out with a top 10 team.
We're not in the SEC. On the other hand, we're not in the SEC.
To your point, I read on ESPN that 10 out of the 14 head coaches in the SEC have been in their current positions for two years or less. If a coach truly wants time to build a culture and a program, VT would seem to offer the best opportunity to do so.
And the only real reason he got 6 was due to Covid. But 5 years to prove yourself is a more than adequate timeframe. Think of it this way, most of the coaches canned in under 3 have massive upheaval and other things going on as well.