Buzz...
"After studying all this nonstop for the last two days and looking at it from every vantage point, it defies logic that we are not in the NCAA tournament," Williams said, wiping away tears as he spoke. "Despite repeated pleas, I have only been given generalities by those above me, not data-specific evidence on why we weren't invited. Without logical reasoning behind the decision, while knowing I still must explain this to our guys and their families, it has caused me to lose all respect and faith in the system and those that are in it."
Forums:
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.
Comments
This is all I could think of when I read this.....
Terrible look, misguided, disrespectful to the NIT, disrespectful to other teams, bitch punk move. You lost 8 conference games in a row. You are lucky you are in the NIT.
There's a real buzz about Brent's whining today
nailed it dc
for a guy that is all about respect...this is a bitch move
Hey Buzz, I'm playing the world's smallest violin...can you hear it?
Surprised the Oilgarchs at A&M couldn't bribe their way in.
Have not seen Oilgarchs before.
Love it
Man. I totally would have missed it had you not called it out. Can definitely use this here in on the DFW metroplex.
I know people on here like to drag Buzz but I feel like this is what I'd want my coach to say if I felt my team was unfairly snubbed.
People have a hate boner for Buzz on here. I get it to some extent, but its a little much. Our new girlfriend is more qualified, let it go.
The dude had a 9 page presentation. I mean what are we talking about here. The whole basketball community is hating on him not just TKP.
Are you surprised that he had a full presentation ready? Buzz is weird. Every post game conference he had random statistics. He himself is his own brand. I wouldn't be surprised if he pays for YouTube to push his content if that's possible. I still randomly get Buzz post game conferences in my YouTube queue.
This all seems par for the course for him. I can't hate him because he likely brought VT basketball more budget and support that wasn't there before him.
Yeah, I am thankful for Buzz for bringing the program back from the brink of obscurity, but I am much happier with having Young not only as the head coach leading the program, but as the face of the program. He is much more representative of Virginia Tech culture than Buzz could have ever been.
What does that have to do with receiving flack from the basketball community? I am not surprised in the slightest, I am also not surprised he is receiving the response he is. Sure it's par for the course but that doesn't mean clowning on him isn't warranted. Dude is an odd bird.
An 8 minute prepared statement to say "I strongly disagree with their assessment and assessment criteria" that is why people are giving him shit. No one would bat an eye if he kept it simple
Yep. 30 second rant, certifiably insane etc, short and sweet, this has a bit of delusions of grandeur to it
Huh, I wonder if anyone told him the easiest way in was to just go ahead and win your conference tourney?
He's being a baby. I understand being upset, but his team plays in the $EC. They're going to get the benefit of the doubt in all cases, and that league will never be purposely underrated. "Personal bias" will definitely not keep their oil baron school from having athletic success I guarantee you that.
Ask Greenberg how well this will go over and whether or not this will backfire long term.
Look, he brings up a lot of good points, and ones that need answering. Mainly, why isn't this process transparent? What is the criteria for being on the committee and how do those members vote and where is the accountability? You had multiple teams on the bubble going into the conference championship weekend and the only one who moved up into the tournament was the one who won the auto-bid, and yet you try and say that the conference tournaments are important factors in your decision process?
At the end of the day, the closed door secret selection every year, while it makes for good drama on selection sunday and gives people like Lunardi a revenue stream over the course of the year, is now operating at the detriment of the sport.
With all of this said... Buzz comes off as a whiny bitch in this. Starting a post game press conference with a prepared statement saying you won't take questions and then spending 9 mins tearfully railing against the NCAA a few days after you didn't get a bid is not a good look. Its the same kind of thing that got Virginia Tech blacklisted on Selection Sunday in the later years of Seth's coaching career. And this isn't the first time that Buzz has basically steamrolled over reporters just trying to do their job, as we all know from his time here.
And lest we forget, this is the same man who changed the theming of the videos about our 2019 NCAA Tournament run to that of Texas A&M so he could personally use it for his own selfish purposes not giving one ounce of a crap how it would come across to Virginia Tech, whom he already knew he was leaving. So... yeah, to see him crying over how things that other people do that happen behind closed doors can have such a negative impact on others rings very hollow with the way he bailed on us during our Sweet 16 run.
And lest we forget, this is the same man who changed the theming of the videos about our 2019 NCAA Tournament run to that of Texas A&M...
I'm not familiar with this. What does that mean? Thank you!
The theming on all his videos documenting our season all year was maroon and orange, even through the ACC Tournament. Starting the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament, it switched to maroon and grey.
I don't get it. What does that accomplish?
Its evidence he was using Virginia Tech to recruit players to A&M while he was still employed at VT.
Seth Greenberg hearing Buzz start that address:
I have to admit that ran through my mind as well. Going to be interesting if they EVER make a bubble again.
I think they'll be back on the bubble for sure, but if they are on the bubble, I think the committee looks to find reasons to keep them out
WHICH IS WRONG AS WELL!!
That would be a clear indication of a lack of objectivity...which is what Buzz is ranting about
This is the N-C-A-A. They've never been about objectivity.
Well...yeah....
which is why we don't shouldn't be critical of Buzz ranting about...what we agree upon
I was thinking it was more like this...
What an incredibly whiny bitch rant. His team was 23-12, 9-9. That's the definition of a bubble team, at best. I like the quote that the committee is "looking at an entire body of work" and "not just a week in March."
If we had lost to Duke, it's pretty clear we wouldn't have been in. I would have been pissed, but I wouldn't have wanted Mike Young to cry about it like this. I mean, he literally cried.
Me watching the clip:
We in... He aint.
We all lived this same storyline too many times in the past.
Buzz:
Me and my Hokie fam:
Listen, I won't laugh too hard because had we not beaten Duke there is no way we make the tournament, and it's possible Texas A&M is in over us.
Yeah exactly. Seems hypocritical to judge Buzz when we know damn well we'd be whining too if we were in his shoes, and we very nearly were.
We would be whining. But I highly doubt that CMY would be up there crying about it.
But we are not in his shoes. In fact, we are more than likely the one that took his dancing shoes.
Yeah.
But we wouldn't be whining this much.
I will offer 2 points.
(1) I agree that we would have been left out if not for beating Duke
(2) You very well could be a better person than me because I am still going to laugh my head off at him wiping his tears
😀😉
I agree with the sentiment but we know from the committee that if us and Richmond hadn't stolen bids, Dayton and then Oklahoma would've been in. SMU was 3rd in line and A&M 4th.
A few things - Buzz was great for us at the time and we should be thankful that he was here when he was. We can be pissed the way he left whether how he left recruiting, the red-shirting of/transfer of players, general treatment of VT at the end, etc. Lastly, Henry Coleman III is going to be one hell of a NFL tight end.
Guessing Buzz's contract doesn't have a NIT bonus
LOL
His team needed the SEC tourney to get in, plain and simple. NCAAA doesn't give af.
All the Buzz hate is just weird to me here on TKP. I applaud him for doing the legwork to have statistical data for why he believes they should be in. Some coaches come to the podium with a packet full of self pity, and they read that off as their analytics. Was it overly emotional, sure, but the guy has a connection to the players that stayed around for their extra year of eligibility. I can't knock that. Love CBW for what he did for VT, and how he helped us to this stage of our growth. His departure was terrible, but honestly, I have no ill will towards the guy.
I think there is some legitimate hate around him using VT money to recruit for TAMU at the end. The hate for leaving in general is pretty misguided - everyone should be free to live and work where they want (hence contracts having clauses to get out).
He left VT pretty poorly. Certainly his right to leave, but I don't think that the disdain for the man about that part specifically is unwarranted or egregious.
He is no longer part of the Hokie family, and he kinda screwed us on the way out. It's not about having ill will towards him, but there are legitimate reasons why people do not remember him quite as fondly.
He's just saying what Seth Greenberg was thinking for several selection Sunday snubs.
i supported him when he was here, because honestly he helped our program. but i have never been a big fan of his...i just always got the feeling he was a little self-absorbed, everything was about him. watching this, i kept wondering what kind of bonus he missed out on by not making the tournament.
and on one hand, i understand the disappointment, dismay, and frustrations. but on the other hand, one or two coaches would be justified in making this same speech every year. let's not pretend you're the first person to experience this.
anyone have a link to his research? if i remember, seemed like he dug into who was on the selection committee, and how they were chosen for that committee. seems like there would be more than statistics in his research.
Yeah, there's something "off" about this guy
Probably unpopular but I love me some Buzz Williams
Yep we would not be where we are now without him he was great for VT basketball
Seth Greenberg had more or less just as much success as Buzz. Same thing with Mike Young. We're able to hire good coaches because we're in historically the best basketball conference in the country. Also, Buzz left Mike Young with literally nothing, so he didn't exactly set up Young and VT for success.
Buzz who? I don't keep up much with 5th place SEC teams or with the NIT tournament. Too focussed on getting ready to watch the first time ACC Champs in the Big Dance.
Greenberg made us better but he brought us to 1 NCAA tournament in 9 years we were a persistent bubble team. Buzz took VT to 3 consecutive NCAA tournaments including a Sweet 16 run. Buzz was also left with just about nothing to start.
MY TBD but Buzz was certainly more successful than Greenberg.
Correct - Greenberg could occasionally pick off Duke and UNC which got us to the bubble at times where we really weren't that good. It was misleading. Having said that- one of the bigger snubs of the past 30 years is VT in 09-10...VT was 10-6 in the ACC, won 25 games and was left out. That's a real snub.
That really was the only year that I 100% thought the committee was wrong during the Greenberg years. Every big end of the year win against Duke and/or UNC was followed up with serval miserable losses and then a. First round conference tournament exit against a lower seeded team. Those teams could never finish a season out.
First 10 win ACC team not to make it. 25 fucking wins- lol. Seriously. Chris Coleman basically wrote that the ACC schedule fell as absolutely bad as it could for VT that year- we played the worst teams twice and that killed the RPI... but fuck that- 25 win ACC team not in the dance. LOLOLOL
First team in ACC history to earn a BYE in the ACC Tournament (this was before the double bye, so Top 4) and miss the NCAA Tournament. And this was during a time when the reputation of the ACC was still that of being the premier basketball conference in the country.
Absolutely ridiculous that we were left out, and the only logical reason was that the committee had a personal bone to pick with Seth Greenberg over his previous comments.
This is also the year that the Wake Forest AD was the ACC representative in the committee and could not accurately recite our resume after the Selection Show. They purposely made an example of us that year, you cannot convince me otherwise. (which also makes me irrationally happy to see that we pushed Wake from In to First 4 Out with our ACCT win this year)
But this year showed that they don't care about advanced metrics either, otherwise we should be in this year without the autobid
This years committee looked at 2 things.. "number of good wins"- That's why Michigan is in over aTm and Dayton.. and "bad losses" which is how san Francisco and half of the mountain west got in instead of Wake and why ND and Indiana were in dayton- a lot of bad losses.
I thought 10-11 was almost equally as bad. We had a similar record as St Johns that year, who was a freakin 6 seed. Ofc they played in a good Big East but they're one good win was beating Duke late in the season, which guess who else also did 🤔. Also nonconference they lost to a crappy Fordham and St Bonaventure (who we handily beat).
That UAB team that got in the first four was also so trash. 8 losses in a bad CUSA and knocked out in their first game in the tournament by East Carolina.
That is definitely the snub that stuck with me the most.
I think their tenures at VT were a LOT closer than most people think.
Seth Greenberg had a .580 win percentage at VT, Buzz was .592. Greenberg was .472 in the ACC, while Buzz was .489. Greenberg finished 4th or better in the ACC 5 times in 9 seasons, Buzz never finished in the top 4 in 4 seasons. Greenberg was 1-1 in the NCAA Tournament, Buzz was 2-3. Williams' tour de force was obviously reaching the Sweet 16 in 2019 - by beating #13 seeded St. Louis and then #12 seeded Liberty.
Greenberg's teams - which included Zabian Dowdell, Jamon Gordon, Coleman Collins, Deron Washington, AD Vasallo, Jeff Allen, Malcolm Delaney, Dorenzo Hudson and Erick Green - beat the #1-ranked team in the country 3 times, and he was a two-time ACC Coach of the Year.
Greenberg was the coach who first showed that Virginia Tech could compete in the ACC. I agree that Buzz probably had slightly more overall success, but the narrative on TKP that Buzz took VT to unheard of heights just isn't supported by the facts.
Buzz's year 1 is skewed by inheriting one of the worst teams in ACC history. Plus the (expanded) ACC was much better during Buzz's years than Greenberg's years.
Again, you are completely neglecting the expanded and improved ACC. Adding Syracuse & Louisville made things even more challenging.
We were very unlucky with several things including (2017) Clarke's injury & drawing one of the greatest 8 seeds in NCAA tourney history that should have been a 5 or so, (2018) rough officiating plus Outlaw's injury, and (2019) Robinson missing most of the ACC + Clarke getting kicked off. Regardless, Buzz made the tourney 3 times as much in half the tenure...
If anything, this shows that Greenberg underperformed with a very talented group of guys, making the tourney only once in 10 years.
Greenberg was literally the first VT coach in the conference, so yes.
We made the tournament 3 straight years for the first time ever and to the sweet 16 for the first time in the "modern era". So yes, Buzz took VT to unheard of heights.
If you hate Buzz, I disagree, but whatever. But to downplay his importance to the program is crazy. He helped us get to where we want to be. And we're in great shape now with Mike Young.
Only because VT was not in the ACC when Greenberg took over. He inherited one of the worst in the Big East.
From Wiki
Greenberg didn't have the benefit of a basketball facility either. When he arrived the team was practicing in the back gym of Cassell.
Greenberg's success in addition to moving to the ACC resulted in donor commitment to fund the HahnHurst home for basketball.
Maybe David Jackson is the driving force with VT basketball. He has been on staff for so many of the good times.
While this was definitely over the top, after watching Wyoming play last night, I can understand being very frustrated by this process.
The idea that the Mountain West deserved 4 teams, including a team that went 5-5 in their last 10 really warrants some explanation. TX A&M would wipe the floor with Wyo.
My biggest gripe of the whole process is that there needs to be a lot more focus on how a team is playing coming into the tournament, including their performance in a the Conference Torunament. The way it is now, it seems a quad 1 win in November has more value then multiple high quality wins in February. That seems illogical.
That being said, there is no perfect formula or process to this. There are always going to be teams that get left out, and unless the bubble teams have played each other head-to-head, there's not really an objective way to directly compare them. Complaining about it, and blubbering in the media really isn't going to change anything. The only way to be sure you're going to get in is to win enough not to be on the bubble. If you're in a P5 conference and on the Bubble, usually it means your conference record is ~.500. Do better than average = make the Tourney.
And also each time a team like a 2022 VT that isnt going to make the tourney on it's own somehow win's their conference, that takes away an at large bid for a bubble team.
I think most people are ok with the whole "there is no perfect formula". but what gets people is that to them the formula seems to change from year to year, which can be frustrating for perrenial bubble teams. But with that said.....You gotta read the room. I'm not sure if a 9 minute monologue bashing the committee, no matter how well written, is the way to go. But who knows...maybe this gets the snowball rolling on committee process overhaul
Want the committee to put you in the tournament?
Win games and stay off the bubble.
Or win your conference tourney.
Yeah Buzz's rant here is not the best. But I think we need to give him a break. Their record, their position of outside looking in, is the exact same position we would be in if we did not beat Duke. We got snubbed too even though we are in. Miami placed higher than us as a 10 seed and we won the ACC Championship. If you decode this, Mike Young and Buzz Williams would be side by side, outside the fence both in the same situation. Thank goodness we beat Duke.
You lost every game you played for a literal month. Anything that happened beyond that warrants exactly zero reasoning as to why you were left out. If you leave it in the committee's hands, that's exactly what result you leave as a possibility. He needs to pipe down just as we would have had to had we not won the ACC.
It is with great pleasure that I tune in to watch Buzz and his team compete in the NIT tournament. Even better knowing Buzz will join the rest of us in awaiting the full kick-off of the Big Dance so we can all watch VT, first time ACC Champions, compete with rest of the top cut of men's college basketball teams. I hope you have a great seat to look on and watch the Hokies and the Big Dance, Buzz!!! And, please, grab a little cheese to go with that Whine.
A sports coach literally crying at a press conference b/c his team was not selected for something is pure bitch. I know Buzz is unique, sentimental, and has lots of feelings, which is fine, but what a chump.
To me it's a fucking act. Make it about him again. This allows the NCAA to be the bad guy, aTm fans to love him and forget about him losing every game for a month.
Buzz helped our program and will help theirs, but Buzz is about Buzz.
Ok let's get real here.
You can legit believe that TAMU should have been invited to the tournament and at the same time recognize that Buzz's reaction was nothing short of ridiculous, childish and completely disproportionate to the situation. Man I think he may be a bigger narcissist than any of us imagined.
Here's the kicker, his team had a basketball game to prepare for in a not so great tournament but one that his team accepted an invitation to. People are paying money to see the NIT and many teams are happy to get a few more games and practices before the season ends. The NIT has been the runner up trophy for many deserving teams/schools in the past. Buzz completely disrespected all of that.
So while his team was busy preparing for Alcorn St. Buzz was hold up in a cabin somewhere writing his manifesto complete with corresponding copies of "real data" that Ted Kaczynski would be proud of. I can just picture the players at practice looking around saying, "hey where's coach?" and getting a shoulder shrug from the rest of the coaching staff. Honestly wouldn't you be embarrassed if your coach did this?
Buzz seems to believe that his team took the worst snub in the long history of NCAA snubs; paging SethG. Give me a break. All of his talk about coaching being more than just about wins and losses was pure hot air. He has lost all credibility. What did you teach those young men under your charge with that temper tantrum. In life, if you don't get something you really, really want, then you should should ignore the work in front of you, hole up in a basement, scour the internet for evidence that there was some kind of organized conspiracy against you and cap it off with a good tear soaked speech, sounding like Dick Nixon. His boss should have fired him immediately.
Wow that felt good!! If only I had a post-game press conference to air my grievance.
Ditto.
Lots of hypocrites here. If we'd lost to Duke on a last second 3 pointer (cough Clemson cough), there'd be a whole lot of crying about how the committee didn't look at how the team finished and performed in the tournament. If CMY went out and blasted the committee (who was IMO stupid picking Wyoming over Oklahoma and other teams), almost everyone here would be cheering him on.
We are NET 27th and KenPom 23rd and ACC champs and ended up 11th seed. We would have gotten jobbed in favor of Dayton or OK.
It isn't what he said, it is how he said it. He put so much effort into trying to reverse engineer the selection process even though he has 0 chance of impacting it. He literally was crying during his long prepared statement. I would expect every coach to say something how they are disappointed, frustrated, crushed, etc but this was awkward and over the top.
Hypocrites?
I think you are making an extremely poor take. I don't think anyone here is saying that aTm wasn't snubbed to some degree, given the teams that got in ahead of them.
I don't think anyone here is arguing that we, as fans, would certainly be complaining if we had not gone in. We would have been a bigger snub IMO. The Aggies lost EIGHT straight conference games at one point.
What we are saying is that what Buzz did was over the top. If CMY went out and spoke for eight minutes like this and started actually crying about it, I for one would be taken completely by surprise. He just wouldn't do that. But if he did, while I would agree with him, I'd be a bit embarrassed by how he actually delivered that message. As would most of us, I'm sure.
That doesn't make us hypocrites.
I think we were very close to being in A&M's position, and I do think we would be livid if we had been left out. In the event that happened there would have been two things that happened. 1) CMY wouldn't have waited a week to get his displeasure out of the way, and he would have done it about as professionally as possible. 2) THIS board would have directed an insane amount if ire towards teams like Michigan for getting in when we didn't.
Instead, we took care of business. A&M did not. Both teams knew going into the tournament it would take a deep run and some luck, because even with several tournament wins the resume was still shaky. We finished our run. A&M did not. We punched our own ticket. A&M left things to the committee.
We woulda been pissed, but after a few days we would have realized we really had nobody to blame but ourselves. The ACC was trash this year and we contributed a lot to that reputation. Starting out the conference slate at 2-7 did us absolutely no favors, and then dropping games to NC State and Clemson late legitimately popped our bubble. The only reason we were getting bubble hype was because we were ACC and putting a ACC team on the bubble drives page clicks. Our resume before the ACC tournament wasn't good enough to get in, and had we lost to Duke, that wouldn't have changed. Too many bad losses without enough quality wins. And when you looked at the other teams on the bubble around where we would have been, we lost to basically all of them.
Thing is, this is exactly where a&m was as well, but they refused to believe it. They thought their SEC backing would have the NCAA committee opening up the doors and welcoming them in with warmth and pride, much like how we thought back in the late 2000s during our snub seasons shortly after joining the ACC. What they didn't realize, and what we had to learn the hard way is, there's a hierarchy in those conferences and if you're not one of the ones who are supposed to be good at that sport, they don't give a shit about you. You honestly think anyone in the SEC spoke up for their behalf? Nah. Just like how the Wake Forest AD couldn't even get our resume correct when justifying why were were left out in 2010. They didn't care. Texas A&M was disposable, something they brought in just to eventually get Texas and Oklahoma. Now that those two schools are in? Aggies can rot for all they care.
Reminds me of this:
Yeah. That is incredibly funny. Unless you are an A&M fan.
Lose to shitty fuck face brownell and his clown team that only plays well against VT, win stupid prizes. That shit team almost beat us twice in 6 days. They would have lost to Bryant. Fuck Clemson hoops. Losing to Shit BC and Xavier didn't help either.
The Buzz hate is just stupid, I'll leave it at that.
He's right to feel snubbed, but there are always teams that feel they got snubbed. This year's rankings just don't make sense. If we hadn't beaten Duke, we wouldn't have been in the tournament this year. Even after beating Duke, we are barely in. That only makes sense if the NCAA doesn't respect the ACC at all this year, which would have been fine; but why is Duke a 2 seed? Because they have some good wins at the beginning of the season when they could flex their top recruit muscles against teams before teams have a chance to . Every team is being graded heavily based on how they played at the beginning of the year, which does not make sense in my opinion. Teams evolve throughout the season. If that's the way we are going to grade teams, then out-of-conference games should be throughout the year and there should be more of them.
He has valid points. There should be more transparency by the committee or whatever.
That said, next time he uses one school's resources to recruit players to a different school, he should probably get players that are good enough to get him into the tournament. 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Bingo.
He manages to bring up valid points while at the same time being an incredibly naïve hypocrite. Using VT funds to recruit for Texas A&M during the season was bullshit. Using our NCAA Tournament run to real time recruit for Texas A&M was bullshit. The fact that he's calling out the NCAA for some very real issues they have doesn't hide the fact that he's talking out of his ass when he's saying secret back room negotiations and agreements screwed his players over when he did that exact thing to Virginia Tech in 2019. Hell, one could argue that recruiting Ty Radford away from us last summer is just a continuation of it, so cry me a river, Brent.
So much salt. When Tyrece Radford decided he had to leave the state of Virginia & enter the portal, Buzz should have just declined to recruit him because it makes randos on the internet mad?? He loves Boots and took him in for his 2nd chance after his legal issues.
Hello, Brent
Shame about your omission
It makes me really sad that someone who graduated from our lovely institution 15 years ago is just going around downvoting people that he disagrees with on the internet.
I can only hope that I'll be doing something more productive when I'm 15 years out
Ummmmm Mike Young loves Boots and literally got him a second chance. Got him back eligible. So don't pretend that Young didn't do the same thing for Radford.
It's a good thing that his recruits left with him.
For basketball especially, you want your recruits to fit the coach. Because of that attrition, Mike Young got to bring in Aluma & Mutts as transfers + all the freshmen. We probably would not have made the tournament the last 2 years if Buzz's class stayed. Most of those guys already ditched A&M.
I've got love for Buzz because he made people at VT realize that we could be a great basketball team and great program. But dang if he was doing this and still at VT I'd be a bit embarrassed lol. I know he's a passionate dude and was probably riding the emotional wave of their awesome tourney run, but crying is a bit too much lol.
All in all, if he doesn't win the NIT now he is going to look even stupider.
I really like Buzz.
God bless him for everything he did while he was in Blacksburg. We owe him a debt of gratitude for the turnaround in our basketball program.
But this is just whiner talk. If you can't make the 68th spot in a 68 team tourney, you have absolutely no ground to stand on to say you deserved a spot.
Is there a better way to rank wins? I get it that beating good teams is an important metric but the way the Quad system is implemented seems flawed.
To me, it seems to be a pyramid scheme where two perceived Q1 teams play one another, both get rewarded, and the fact that they faced one another helps to keep both of them near the top. This problem is compounded by the shear # of Q1 wins carrying more weight than the record. Going 6/12 (33%) against Q1 is much more highly favored than going 3-1 (75%).
Further, a win against a top 5 or top 10 team is much more impressive than winning vs a #40-50 team, IMO. It seems like their could be a weighting system appropriated to each win, where you still get rewarded proportionally rewarded/penalized for the quality of win/loss:
Opp. __Weight/Win or Loss
Rank___ Win ____ Loss
1 _____ 1.000 __ -0.005
2 _____ 0.995 __ -0.010
3 _____ 0.990 __ -0.015
4 _____ 0.985 __ -0.020
5 _____ 0.980 __ -0.025
6 _____ 0.975 __ -0.030
7 _____ 0.970 __ -0.035
8 _____ 0.965 __ -0.040
9 _____ 0.960 __ -0.045
10 ____ 0.955 __ -0.050
11 ____ 0.950 __ -0.055
12 ____ 0.945 __ -0.060
13 ____ 0.940 __ -0.065
14 ____ 0.935 __ -0.070
15 ____ 0.930 __ -0.075
16 ____ 0.925 __ -0.080
17 ____ 0.920 __ -0.085
18 ____ 0.915 __ -0.090
19 ____ 0.910 __ -0.095
20 ____ 0.905 __ -0.100
190 ___ 0.055 __ -0.950
191 ___ 0.050 __ -0.955
192 ___ 0.045 __ -0.960
193 ___ 0.040 __ -0.965
194 ___ 0.035 __ -0.970
195 ___ 0.030 __ -0.975
196 ___ 0.025 __ -0.980
197 ___ 0.020 __ -0.985
198 ___ 0.015 __ -0.990
199 ___ 0.010 __ -0.995
>=200 ___ 0.005 __ -1.000
Buzz is the ex-girlfriend who we dated for 5 great years but she had other long term goals. Mike Young is the wife that we're spending the rest of our years with. So why are half of our fans still so salty about the ex when we're happily married? It was 3 years ago, get over it. Weird analogy sure, but our fan base is an embarrassment when they act like this.
Not to mention, Buzz is in the right. The selection process is a joke with zero accountability. And if we had a more qualified committee, not only would A&M have made the field, but Virginia Tech would not have gotten a freaking 11 seed in the hardest region. We got screwed too, but too many people are still crying over their ex.
It's because of the way the ex left us. The entire time she was with us, she preached loyalty and respect. But when she left, she started sleeping with her new bf before we even knew we were breaking up. She also took all of our mutual friends with her in the break up and she took some of the friends that were ours before the relationship. She also took our money and used it with her new bf before the break up was official. If you are looking at it that way, that is why people are salty. We aren't saying we want her back, but we also aren't at the, "I wish you well stage either."
To you second point, sure, Buzz is right and has valid concerns that every bubble team has expressed in the past. But the way he did it, with 9 pages and 8 minutes of crocodile tears.
Fans are fans. Fans are allowed to scream and shout and act a fool when they feel wronged. That's one of the best parts of sports. Another great part is routing against teams and people you dislike. aTm fans have every right to be pissed and hurt. Buzz isn't wrong in what he said. Buzz is just ridiculous for how he said it.
I feel bad for your wife if you're still complaining about your ex. I don't care if she "cheated" or not, it's embarrassing
And this was literally the ideal scenario (Buzz comes into rescue the program -> we transition to our "lifelong Hokie" perfect long term hire and Buzz gets to go back home). Everyone wins! We all knew he was gonna leave once he turned the program around. Whit was okay putting those clauses into his contract that reduced Buzz's buyout every year because he was okay with it too. Just because Buzz isn't a lifelong Hokie, doesn't mean we have to hate him. He set us on the right path and then the lifelong Hokie (Mike Young) takes over. It works out best for literally every party, so why are people salty?
And I'm not even gonna address this childish remark. People really need to grow up.
It seems to me that you and others are conflating too many issues here.
It is possible to believe all of these things:
1. We have a debt of gratitude to Buzz for putting our program on the map. Without him CMY probably doesn't come here.
2. TAMU was unfairly snubbed by the NCAA selection committee (a justifiable complaint every year by some team)
3. Buzz did some distasteful things on his way out of Blacksburg.
4. Buzz is great basketball coach and by most accounts a decent human being
5. What he did at that press conference was ridiculous, childish and lacking in class and grace. His vague assertion of corruption and inappropriate decisions based on personal feelings are worthy of criticism. His remarks were those of an overentitled child that got cut from the team blaming everybody else and taking no personal responsibility. We expect it at some level from kids, but not a leader of young men.
And yes if we had lost Duke and not gotten into the tournament, we would also be salty, and complain loudly. But none of us are the head ball coach leading our team. But I can say without hesitation that our current coach would never make a similar display. This is not about a large section of the fan base "hating" Buzz. So maybe we can stop apologizing and justifying what was clearly bad behavior and more than a little bizarre.
The first part feels very much like a personal attack. I was simply continuing your ex-gf analogy to show why some people, myself included, are just a little bit happy that Buzz maybe got screwed in this one.
And yeah, being a fan is about being childish. Again, that's one of the great things in sports. Supporting your team and rooting against those you don't support. Being petty, being a homer, being a little ridiculous. aTm fans should be going on message boards, reddit, wherever, and screaming about getting left out. Yelling about Wyoming or Michigan or Notre Dame or whoever.
The head coach is a little different. But its clear you don't feel that way, and that's cool. The personal attack after explaining an opinion you disagree with using your analogy, not cool.
Our fan base acts like what? Discussing this amongst ourselves on a VT message board?
I'll be honest, I'm slightly annoyed with the folks now talking about "Buzz haters". The dude used OUR money to recruit kids to a different school. He should get at least a little disdain.
We are literally expressing an opinion shared by the college basketball world at large. Unless I'm missing something, no Hokie is going overboard giving Buzz a hard time here.
Let's play "What's Saltier" boys and girls.
First up: MY's popcorn vs Brent's tears
Me seeing ya'll still ragging on Buzz, and deciding that I'll take my constructive criticism thoughts with me too 🤣😂:
Thought my attempts to reinforce "Hokie Pride" would kill all the Brent shaming, oh well I tried, carry on 🐸☕ TKP.
Oh man, if Michigan loses today, Buzz gonna be super salty
They had me in the first half, not gonna lie
For anyone who cares about the perspective of a Hokie with an opinion that actually means something
Or who knows, maybe the "Brent" haters have disavowed his former players (& VT legends) too
Dude you need to give it a rest, it's a bad look for you.
We are not "Buzz haters". I don't think a single person on here has called Buzz a bad person. I dare you to provide an example.
The way he left the program and the associated shenanigans with recruiting dollars is not a secret. We are not creating a friction point on that for the sake of doing so.
Maybe step back for a second and realize you are the one alienating your fellow Hokies for the sake of a guy that gave no shits about how our program was left as he was heading out the door, and made a bit of an ass out of himself with this prepared "statement". That's not my opinion, that's pretty much how it is universally viewed.
Why should we care about Buzz Williams at this point? We have the coach we need, and it has nothing to do with Buzz. And I will own my downvote of your post. You are making accusations that are wildly off base at this point.
I think everyone has already expressed both or all sides of the conversation, but just focusing on accountability, it is ridiculous that the committee has no transparency whatsoever. The B1G was supposed to be this colossus of a conference this year, that's why Michigan was able to get in with such a lackluster record, and already Iowa and Rutgers (both important teams for the B1G) have bowed out, one of them to a team from a putrid ACC this year. I know this can happen to anyone, but the whole portrayal of tough and weak conferences in basketball needs to stop. This isn't the SEC in football where you can at least see some of that dominance.
EDIT: Now Indiana
I refreshed this thread three times to make sure I hadn't missed anyone else doing this, but ...
I remember before I was a Hokie the only time I heard about VTBB was when the Washington Post would have an article where Greenberg would whine about being on the bubble. Look, if you don't want to be on the bubble win your conference tournament. Otherwise shut up. Can't win games? Then you leave it up to chance. Everyone has an opportunity to get an auto-bid, if you can't do that you better win your games.
At the same time I hold similar concerns about both the CFP committee and the tourney committee. Why are active ADs on there? Shouldn't they be ADing? There's no way they're watching all these games, and we've seen pictures of the CFP committee watching games and not even taking notes. It's ridiculous. The committees should be made up of non-active coaches, analysts, and data analytics people. Professionals who are experts on that sport and can devote the entire season to studying every team in depth.
I don't get the importance of "note taking." Its not like they need to write an French article breaking down the blocking scheme.
I do agree that active AD's should not be on the selection committee of either sport. All I want is transparency from the start of the season - what is the specific criteria and how important is it. Of course that takes 75% of the drama out of the whole process.
Buzz makes some good points. If he can suggest a way to make it more fair, I invite the NCAA to listen to him.
But something tells me that if he ends up on the right side of the bubble, he doesn't so much care about how fair the system is.
And while I like what he did for the VT basketball program while he was here, I'm not kidding myself that it was ever anything other than transactional for him.
I have no animosity towards him, but I suppose the reality is "Don't be on the bubble."
I don't hate Buzz. I hate the way he put a damper on what was arguably, at the time, one of the biggest moments in VT basketball - the sweet 16 run. I have lived and dies with VT basketball since I got to see Dell Curry play the year I arrived at VT. That week, as I am this week, I was looking forward to that game with so much anticipation. Then the info he was leaving was out there shortly before the game, and it put a huge damper on what was supposed to be a big moment. If I found out today that CMY was flirting with another program, I would be just as devastated.
None of that takes away that an 8 minute manifesto that calls on 'data' that isnt supplied is just silly.
Wait for the Buzz to LSU announcement. He has made his profile sky high AND he's not making the tournament 3 years in a row at A&M whose paying him big bucks with a new AD.
I see people here commenting about (agreeing with Buzz on) Transparency from the committee....this is from the article:
seems pretty transparent to me. good work getting to your conference championship game. next time, play that way all season long.
Except its not. Its a single statement made after the fact addressing one aspect of one team's season in response to criticism. You could find a reason like that to leave out every team that is 10 seed or above for someone else.
Transparency would be a list of criteria in order by weight published before the season and preferably before non-conference schedules are finalized.
I realize that is unlikely to ever happen, but that is tranparency.
Transparency also gives you a way to benchmark success throughout the season. Without that, you have a bunch of marginal teams believing they have done what it takes to make the tourney.
You never see any NFL team complaining they didn't make the playoffs. The criteria, and transparency of that criteria is what avoids that problem. I know that criteria like the NFL is impossible in this situation, but something concrete and measurable is needed. Isnt that what the NET rankings are supposed to be?
Buzz isn't wrong about this, but his method of delivery is just not going to work.
Buzz who?
Some guy named Brent.
Looks like Buzz's boys just couldn't quite get it done in the NIT final. Dropped a 73-72 loss to Xavier. Boots with the last second three attempt.
Making it this far and ending like this in the NIT, I think, should be all the proof anyone needs that A&M was a legitimate snub. No one can say they would have gotten out of their first round game, but they had an argument to be there. It sucks, it happens, and we know.
Disagree. By that line of thinking Xavier got snubbed. How about the other two teams in the Final Four of the NIT. Did they get snubbed?
Being the best of the rest doesn't mean you should have made the tournament. It's the best 34 teams who aren't automatic qualifiers by winning a conference per the current setup. Because you were 35 and then beat teams 36-60 only proves you are better than teams 36-60.
It's an inexact science but the system we have in place. It's a fallacy to draw any conclusions from NIT results. If they had lost in their first game does that mean they were correctly excluded, or that they had a bad game that night?
I always thought Nit winner should get an auto bid the following year to keep it fun and interesting
This is actually a great idea. Watching that final last night the kids clearly cared about winning. Make it really mean something
What if the NIT winner loses four starters and goes 6-20 the next year
Earned their bid just like the people that can technically win an auto bid by winning league tourney after losing every game all season.
I agree but then you'd also need to give the final four from the previous year each an autobid.
Would be interesting to do if the field expanded to 96 (which I don't advocate for but is a fun experiment). Then you could give regular season conf champs and tourney champs bids. But make it so all double champs get byes, to give the reg season champ an incentive in their conf tourney.
No one should earn a bid for the current season by their play from the previous season. Different team, different tournaments, etc.. The 6-20 team who wins their conference tournament did accomplish that feat in the current season, not the previous one.
I mean, you also won't convince me the mountain west teams that made the tourney were better than wake forest or Syracuse or Texas a and m or Xavier so like half the shits subjective anyhow the rules are all over the place in how you qualify
You are correct, but A&M should've been in on their resume. Superior to teams like Wyoming. Probably a couple other snubs too, but that was the worst.
I haven't heard much whining from Xavier over being snubbed. Buzz should zip it and get in line behind them.
My perspective is anyone on the bubble (about the last 6 at-large teams in and first 6 teams out) can't expect to be in. It's not a snub unless you're legitimately better than the bubble teams. If you wanted to make the tournament, be good enough to be in the top 30 or so.
Thought y'all might enjoy the chuckle
Gold! so true.
Is this before or after the 9 page dossier is distributed to the media
Not a Buzz thing, and doesn't warrant a new thread, but a Buzz guy is on the move again, Landers Nolley in the portal.
Damb really? He got a lot of run at Memphis
Want odds that he goes to aTm?
Might have something to do with the infractions Memphis is facing, probably wants a chance for a post-season next year
his mpg and ppg .. basically his stats declined from year 1 to year 2 at Memphis
it could waarent a new thread, have you seen the threads I create, I mean they let just about anyone do that around here
Would we want him back? He would just be competing for playing time with Cattoor, Maddox, and Alleyne.
Pretty sure he wouldn't want to come back
You may see Nolley again next year wearing an ACC uniform
Nolley visiting NC State and aTm
Maybe not the perfect thread for this but whatever...I really dont get how Buzz was some big credit to VT basketball that we should be thankful for. We had a good run with Buzz, certainly a great rebound from the previous era, but realistically only a small-notch above the Greenberg tenure, these weren't unheard of heights for the programs by any means.
But when Buzz left he decimated the roster. We were literally playing high schoolers in Mike Young's first year while every player of consequence from Buzz' last year either followed him or transferred elsewhere. CMY started from absolute scratch, and was still putting a better product on the court in year one than Buzz in year three. And its not like post-Buzz we were suddenly pulling in blue chip recruits, CMY built the roster back up with mid-major transfers and solid-but-not-spectacular recruits the way we would have under any coach no matter the predecessor. I honestly think that Mike Young would be having a similar level of success if he had followed James Johnson instead of Buzz, the roster wouldn't have been any worse to start, that's for sure.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he came here and enjoyed some of those years, but I won't hesitate to laugh at his clown show when he's off the rails again.
We finished dead last in the ACC under James Johnson both years he was coach I believe. Buzz took us from that with no real prospects to the NCAA tournament and back to relevance.
Yes the way he left was dirty. But VT fans also expected him to stay like Beamer or Bud for the rest of his career, which was never going to happen. If we would have missed on a coach after James Johnson we would have been light-years behind the 8 ball, kind of like we are in football.
Now that all said, like most things, the truth is somewhere in the middle... Buzz took a program from the dumps and steadily brought the program back to relevance. Yeah we had a taste of the NCAA tourney under Greenberg, but nothing like today.
And it's foolish in my opionion to dismiss his tenure, no matter how negatively people feel about him, as completely irrelevant to the success we have now. Did it cause it? No. But the foundation, revitalization of Cassell Guard, etc happened then. Coach Mike Young has just elevated it to the next level.
I literally have no ill will for him whatsoever for how he left. I dont follow recruiting closely enough to know about videos or what he was saying or not saying. I expected him to stay for a couple of years then bounce and that's what he did, good for Buzz. My only point is that he didn't really leave the program anywhere we couldn't have gotten ourselves. Its easy to look at the record and say Mike Young started from a better place than Buzz, but I would argue that Buzz legitimately left the roster worse than he found it, Mike Young had a more difficult rebuilding job than Buzz did from a talent perspective, and the structural advantages that were in place for CMY to have success are a product of the university and Babcock, not anything Buzz did.
Buzz had some success, torched the roster to the ground, then bounced. I'm not mad, but I'm giving CMY and Whit all the credit for the program that is being built here.
Yeah, I agree with what you are saying and can definitely get behind it. And honestly I have no issue with celebrating the schadenfreude of his team losing. Me personally? I'd rather celebrate our own ACC championship and our successes, than others' shortfalls.
I like to do both.
But then I'm pretty damn petty.
There is a lot more to a successful program than just a roster though. He brought money and focus back to the basketball program. Sure Babcock can take some credit, but Buzz is the primary reason budget and engagement increased. Both of these things were able to carry to the next coach. Also, I doubt Mike Young would've taken this job if he was offered instead of Buzz. We were in a terrible spot and Buzz forced a u-turn to bring us back into ACC relevance.
Not knocking Buzz because I do believe that without him, the program isn't where it is today. But Whit should get a lot of credit because going out and getting Buzz was a huge shot in the arm and was by itself a pretty big commitment to basketball.
Buzz played his cards well, but Whit had to pay the table stakes just to get him at the table.
I think it's a chicken and the egg thing, you don't get Buzz with out ponying up some money, but you don't get that money I'd you don't hire a guy like Buzz. So Whit went at risk to secure Buzz so that Buzz could help earn the money to pay Buzz and upgrades
Its not that VT COULDN'T get us to where Buzz did, but its the fact that he did it. Buzz left the program as a desirable job instead of a bottom feeder.
We hire a new coach HOPING they pan out. Buzz delivered and allowed us to get CMY.
Buzz earned his pay and a tip of the cap. Nothing more or less (imho).
I am not sure that anyone can really argue that Buzz didn't get us back to respectability, I mean a Sweet 16 run is a pretty high water mark for this program (which is legitimately sad in the big picture, but that's a whole other conversation). I think what mogwai is saying is that Buzz pretty much stripped the house bare when he left, taking the entire recruiting class with him as well as basically all our youth.
There's a reason that Mike Young was left with the weakest roster in the ACC, and that is because of Buzz. And the fact that we rebounded as quickly as we did lends itself to saying that it is maybe Whit's doing that we didn't cave in right after that transition but only grew from it.
And, lets be honest... going back to 2004 when we joined the ACC, we have at the very least been a bubble team under every coach outside of James Johnson. Lets not forget that in 2007, under Greenberg we were a win over Clemson at home away from winning the regular season ACC title and regularly knocked off some of the best teams in the sport. At a certain point, it might be worth considering that the shit years under JJ were the outlier for where VT basketball is, and everything after was a regression to an ever rising norm.
Um, no. Just no.
VT was not a destination. We had neither recruits nor coaches beating down our door until Whit managed to snag buzz. We were a middle of the pack ACC team but still getting one big per decade under Seth and never making a deep NIT run either.
Are we a destination now? Our splashy hire after buzz was the coach from Wofford, whom many of us panned at the time (not me, FWIW, but quite a few of us and I understood the angst). If you take out the JJ and Buzz years our trajectory remains intact, a perennial bubble team that relies on a mix of home-grown talent and under-the-radar transfers that can surprise you when things go well.
I'd say making it to the tournament under 3 out of our last four coaches, making it to the Sweet 16 under Buzz, and winning the ACC under Young has earned us a modicum of respectability.
We've had our moments, and maybe the best is ahead of us. This year's team was solid, and it demonstrates what Young is capable of putting together.
I may be wrong, but I think we hire Mike Young regardless of Buzz's success. If we take his word at face value, VT is his dream job, and we are in the freaking ACC, I don't think it's unreasonable that even a down-and-out VT could hire the coach of Wofford who had few other suitors.
^this.
With/without buzz, VT could have hired CMY.
AND I'll bet, if we hired CMY before buzz, a lot of VT fans would still have had misgivings about hiring Wofford's coach.
Analogy: I leased my LAST car for 2 years. It was flashy, fast, got attention, fun but didn't fit. So, I bought my current ride and have driven it happily for 16 years now. I could've done that without the 2 year lease experiment, no prob.
No it wasn't. He didn't (to my knowledge) disparage the school, get us into NCAA trouble, leave before our season ended, etc. He finished the season, and accepted a job that paid more. It's no different than how I would leave my company for a new job.
I think the reason people felt the way he left was dirty was because it is believed he was recruiting for his new job while still coaching VT (using VTs resources.)
I think Buzz was more than a small notch above the Greenberg-tenure. Buzz went to three NCAA tournaments in five year while Greenberg went to one in nine. With that being said, I am not a fan of the way Buzz left whatsoever. I believe that you should never stop doing parts of a job early just because you know you're leaving. It's okay that Buzz left. What's not okay was punting on recruiting for VT because he knew he was leaving. He was using TAMU colors if I remember correctly in some of the videos his final season. Buzz was working for Virginia Tech and did not see it all the way through. I have no issue saying I actively root against TAMU because of it.
I agree that Buzz was a big step up from Greenberg, but how do you think he punted on recruiting his final year? He had a solid class lined up and ready to go. I'm not sure how he could be blamed for his recruits wanting to follow him to A&M. That's how we got Cattoor and Aluma lol. Young wasn't able to hold onto Blackshear, and then we lost NAW to the draft and some great seniors in Justin Robinson, Ty Outlaw, and Ahmed Hill.
In the theoretical world where Buzz does stick around, we likely have a starting lineup of:
PG - Bede
SG - Radford
SF - Nolley
PF - Horne
C - Blackshear
Bench -- Isaiah Wilkens, Anthony Harris, Emanuel Miller
That's a solid team right there. If Young convinces Blackshear to stay, then our starting five stays the exact same.
Sure Buzz had his own "brand" thing going on and it was annoying, but I'm tired of people claiming he somehow screwed us over and left Mike Young with nothing to work with.
There's no logic. When kids follow a coach to Blacksburg (i.e. Ahmed Hill, Aluma, Cattoor), the new coach is a hero, but when they follow the coach away, they're evil.
Buzz went all in on his first class. Yes he had to to overhaul that disaster of a roster, but after that, a lot of the recruiting efforts seemed off. That 2016 class was a huge whiff. Seth LeDay, Tyrie Jackson, and Khadim Sy. The 2017 was pretty solid with NAW, Bede, and Horne. The one after that just wasn't that good. Kabongo had back issues that were well-known. Isaiah Wilkins was good when everyone around him was good but could never be that guy. Radford was unranked. Yes he turned out to be pretty good, but at the time that was somewhat puzzling. Nolley was a good get but ultimately did not fit Mike Young's system and apparently not Memphis' either. He was capable of constantly recruiting as well as he did in 2015 and 2017 and just didn't because I believe he knew when he was leaving after the 2015 class was gone. If Buzz does stick around, yes that's our lineup. But he knew he wasn't sticking around.
Isn't that like the highest ranked class in VT history or something? Top 20. So much better than "pretty solid."
2014 was a great class. Hill + Bibbs + LeDay (sat out) and Allen (sat out).
2015 was a great class. Robinson + Blackshear + Clarke + Outlaw
2016 was a poor class.
2017 was a very good class. NAW is the #1 or #2 VT recruit ever. Bede + Horne
2018 was a solid class. Nolley (even though he left) + Radford was an incredible find. We'll never know if Wilkins + Kabongo would have done anything under Buzz.
So really we're talking about 1 bad class out of 5.
I was going to say the same thing...for someone to call our top recruiting class ever "pretty solid" is quite the understatement. I'd say that the 2015 class was our second-greatest class of all time too. People just really struggle to give Buzz the credit where he is due lol. He literally turned our program around from back-to-back DEAD LAST finishes and took us pretty deep in the tournament in five years! I've got all the love for Mike Young too, but honestly if Cattoor doesn't go unconscious in the ACC championship against Duke then we don't even make the tournament this year and the Buzz haters don't even start this conversation haha.
The whole "dead last to greatest heights" is a little overplayed, too. The Johnson years aren't representative. VT had been to the sweet 16 before (even the elite eight), even without Brent or the ACC. A more apt comparison is comparing VT basketball to the Greenberg years. An improvement, for sure.
It's like when a politician takes over after the economy has has hit bottom, and wants to claim credit for the bounce. Sometimes timing alone is going to give you most of that bounce.
All of that said, Brent brought in some great players, and was good for the program. He saw VT for what it was. A great (and undervalued) opportunity for himself. I don't regret his tenure a bit.
TBH, I'd say Beamer did more for VT basketball than Brent did, and the real credit belongs to Whit. If it weren't Brent, it would have been someone else pretty good, and capable of getting VT to the NCAA tournament.
With Mike Young, I think we've hit the sweet spot. I mean, ACC Champs ain't nothing. Brent didn't even get that.
This is a really misleading comment imo.
The "elite eight" appearance was in a 23 team tourney in 1967... That's 55 years ago.
In the THIRTY years before Buzz was hired, we made the tournament TWO times. We made three consecutively in his 3rd-5th years.
There were bright spots, in the 80s for example, but the modern history including Greenberg was not good whatsoever.
Buzz + Mike Young already account for almost 40% (5/13) of the tournaments in our (poor) basketball history.
Buzz was the right guy in 2014 and did a remarkable job turning the program around. Mike Young was the right guy in 2019 and he's picking up where Buzz left off.
Not so fast, my friend.
It's not misleading at all. I said that to point out that the infrastructure was there, and we have had some level of success before. In the 1960s. In the 1980s. In the Greenberg years. And yes, Buzz got us to the sweet sixteen and that was sweet. Mike Young won the ACC.
Buzz was great for the program. But the potential was there. Whit was willing to make the investment. Buzz recognized that.
Let's look at it another way. Could we have gotten Buzz to come if we hadn't had some success with Greenberg? And then, could we have gotten Young to come without Buzz?
They've each played a role to get us where we are today, but Young still has the heavy lifting ahead of him. If we become a basketball school, it will be because of Young, not Buzz.
Jeez, some people just have an axe to grind with Buzz and will twist the facts into a pretzel to try and support that position.
Your argument resembles saying Hokie football was awesome before Beamer because Claiborne had some 7-3 seasons in the 1960s too.
No, but Bill Dooley was hired to improve the program, and did. Had a number one draft pick, went to some bowls, and got the program noticed. Before he arrived, VT hadn't been to a bowl since 1947. Dooley played an important role, but was he the ultimate reason for VT football success? No.
Beamer was the guy who made the real, lasting difference.
And that's what we need for basketball, too. Brent had 4-5 good years. Got VT to the Sweet Sixteen. He saw an opportunity and he took it. Brought in the recruits we needed to get there. He did a fine job. But it will take someone like Young to be successful and give it some staying power. The hard work is still ahead of us for VT basketball.
Wait wait wait so you're telling me that we don't use our 1967 Elite Eight run as a program selling point to recruits? Haha what a shame!
Hopefully we're using the ACC Championship.
Buzz who?
I can see how someone who has a negative opinion of Buzz could arrive at that conclusion, but I don't buy it. He had some misses on big recruits some years just like any other school, but I doubt he was dragging his feet on purpose. The facts are that Buzz got us 5 of our top 10 all-time recruits in just the 5 years he was here. Doesn't sound like a slouch to me!
Khadim Sy sucks. Can't play dead in a western. Ojiako is better
GOOD. It helped CMY's guys mature and develop. Would you rather a Buzz class or a CMY class to play for CMY...? This is such a ludicrous complaint. Besides we have made 2 tournaments since then (only missing the one rebuild/covid year) so who the hell cares? Also, we inherited multiple starters behind (Radford, Nolley, Bede).
Buzz is like that cute girl you dated in high school.
She was fun while she lasted, but now you can hardly remember her name. She was never going to be the one. She seemed perfect then, but your priorities were a little different.
Now she's just somebody that you used to know.
The Buzz Williams hire:
Buzz is also arguably the most successful basketball coach in VT history:
Buzz's success made VT a more desirable job. I'm not saying he's Frank Beamer, but he left the program (note - I'm talking about the program, not team) better than he found it. We maybe land CMY without Buzz (just because of the hometown connection) but I doubt we land Mike Jones if Buzz had not been so successful.
I got no problem with Buzz. He came in, elevated our profile, then went on to the next challenge. Both parties finished ahead. His tenure was a successful venture.
I hear a lot of the criticisms from fans they don't like they way he ended things. Fair enough. But it does seem at least part of the hate boils down to an unspoken thing; a thing no other coach has done at VT for a long time or since in a revenue generating sport. He left the program for another job. Every other coach in recent history has either been fired or retired from the sport entirely.
People don't like the idea that someone didn't see VT as a destination gig. But the reality is this a business. You want someone who's in it for the long haul, but I would say more coaches than not are basically free agents.
I agree that this is why people are upset about Buzz. Not only did he leave us, but he left to coach at Texas A&M; not a prestigious basketball powerhouse like Kansas.
But, to me, this is just a bad take. Everyone has to do what's best for them and their family. He came in, did his job, and did it well. That's all you can ask.
I don't give a shit that he left. It is what it is, he took a better job and that's that.
What I don't like is that he used our funds to actively recruit players to Texas A&M while he was employed by Virginia Tech. To me, that's pretty shady and curious behavior for a coach who stressed doing things the right way. And I don't care if others don't like the criticism, the way he left will always sit poorly with me because it came off as extremely hypocritical to everything he preached while he was here.
Amen. Top level college basketball is the dirtiest sport in the world. Literally every aspect is shady if you want to win. You think John Scheyer recruits the top class in the country his first year without NIL promises and K funnelling him USA basketball prospects? lol. Buzz was dirty as hell- So is Self, so is anyone that wins.
"Top level college basketball is the dirtiest sport in the world"
IOC amd FIFA seen whistling in the corner.
lol - fair
Is it really a competition?
Yeah, I guess it is. Would be hard to beat FIFA.
Buzz was a game changer for us and legitimized us as a basketball destination. He leaves to go to his home state for more money and arguably his dream job. Did he leave us with a mostly empty cupboard, yes. As pretty much every coach does when they go to a new school. Not sure how this board got so hurt over this. He is a class guy and a class coach that in order put God, Family, Team and then School as his priorities. Just like we all should.
I think it was the way he went out and rumors of him recruiting for A&M while still head coach of a VT team that made a good run in the tourney. This made it seem like he wasn't all that classy and was more what people suspected, all about his personal brand. I look at him as a hired contractor, he helped advance the VT brand and his own brand, but when it came down to a choice, he picked himself and took some office supplies with him when he left. I don't hate him, but don't look back with the warm and fuzzies like I wish I could since the team was pretty good there at the end.
Searched the whole thread, and this wasn't in it, sooo....