Out of....drum roll....MIAMI!!! Shocked...
At least the guy that gave the deal says he won't renegotiate. Basically take it or leave it.
We've now entered the next level of the NIL and portal in College basketball.
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Good luck to him finding some other billionaire to give him $$
Or a team wanting his selfish, "me first" attitude.
There's good reason he landed at Miami first I guess...
Good luck finding another mid-level program that will pony up that money.
Might not be a 'me first' attitude, might be a 'family first' attitude. I don't know what his situation is, and I can't blame anyone for trying to get more money for themselves and their family.
There's a right way and wrong way to do it. To me, this is the wrong way. And he will likely cost himself and/or his family money.
Agreed this is bad leveraging from his agent. Schools and other NIL investors probably are looking at this move as a liability and not an asset
He's also saying the quiet part out loud and potentially ruining the entire system for everyone.
This will be rightfully used as Example 1A on why NIL has become the exact thing that we were told it wouldn't be when the idea was floated by representatives of the athletes. Its straight up unregulated pay for play, and now we have explicit evidence to that extent. And not just from this, but from the billionaire booster who bragged loud and proud about signing one of Wong's new teammates to a $400k per year plus car deal to play for Miami, which, unsurprisingly kicked off Wong's move now.
And then there is the Wong way of doing it.
Then he should go to the NBA or G League. Those guys get paid to play basketball.
Make me wonder if future NIL deals will start to include incentive bonuses...
Wouldn't that fall under pay to play, which is *supposed* to be out of bounds?
90% positive his "Contract" will go away if he leaves Miami. Pretty sure that is the definition of pay to play.
If he leaves Miami, his name image and likeness leaves Miami and would probably considered a breach of NIL deal.
I would think if he were to stay at Miami and break a leg on the first day of practice and miss the entire season, his NIL deal would still be intact.
It is definitely intangled. There is no NIL without Wong playing in a Miami uniform and getting famous in that uniform. While I don't what is allowable to be a breach of an NIL contract under the NCAA guidelines, presumably making the contract contingent on playing a certain amount of games in a Miami uniform would be off limits.
I don't know the details of his contract, but the Athletic did a piece on the $8m qb recruit (largely assumed to be Nico Iamaleava at Tennessee) and his contract says he has to appear at events in the city (Knoxville). So even if he transfers or signs elsewhere, he would have to she able to fulfill obligations in person at Knoxville.
"Isaiah is under contract" Thanks Jay Bilas and Jaelen Rose... appreciate it. You win. These "exploited athletes" with 6 figure scholarships, world class training and priceless exposure are now flat out openly pro players. Thanks. Appreciate it
i saw this last night, and wasn't sure what to think about it...it is almost like he is holding rich alumni hostage...or openly blackmailing them...not sure best way to describe it.
don't think anyone anticipated this with NIL...athletes demanding more money from rich alumni and their 'collectives' or else they will transfer
I'm genuinely confused by your choice of language. He isn't using illegal coercion to get what he wants, he's just negotiating. You know, just like his coach and AD did before they accepted jobs at Miami. Or like pretty much every other person in this country who works for a paycheck.
IMO the system is working exactly as it should. Wong thinks he's worth more than Ruiz is willing to pay. If Wong is right, he'll get more money elsewhere. If Ruiz is right then Wong's current deal is the best he can do. In either case, the outcome is correct. No one is being held hostage or blackmailed. Everyone involved is free to choose as they wish.
I think the issue is that if the system was working as designed, Wong should be making more than the new transfer because Wong is a solid player for them who has been around for a while and just lead them to the Elite 8. His Name, Image, and Likeness should theoretically be more valuable than an unknown transfer. But because this isn't an NIL deal, it's pay to play, that's not how it worked out.
Like you said, everyone's free to do as they choose, so it's not the end of the world. This was just the natural evolution of NIL without the NCAA putting up any guardrails. Which I think we all knew wasn't going to happen.
Edit: my understanding is that Wong is irked because a new transfer (possibly the one discussed in the other NIL thread) is making more money than him.
New transfer is getting $400,000 a year and a car. Why wouldn't he be angry?
Yeah I wasn't saying he shouldn't be angry. If my boss hired someone off the street after we had just had some big success and the new person was making way more, I would definitely be mad.
My point was just that it's not exactly how the system should be working. If a player can make 400k and get a car off NIL endorsements, then power to him. But we essentially have an open pay to play system which was not the goal.
He'd better get used to it, because that life in pro sports. Someone is always going to get signed for more money.
And he's allowed to try to negotiate a raise, just like anyone else.
But only when his contract is up or his team is willing to renegotiate. In this case his contract isn't up and his "employer" isn't willing to renegotiate.
But as you say, same as everyone else.
He can try before it's up, but it doesn't mean he'll get anything. Or he can leave, like he's saying.
Right that's the baseline issue here. You've got a private party paying the kid and now he's leveraging his status at the university (which likely also leverages the school against Ruiz) against that. I think in a pay to play situation there's no issue here but because NIL isn't that it causes a hiccup in how contract negotiation should be handled. If he doesn't like his contract with Ruiz and thinks he's worth more he should seek out other NIL contracts.
Most people saw this with NIL, getting paid for name, image, and likeness is fine but since the NCAA punted we just have college players shopping themselves around with an agent in tow
All of this is fine as long as everyone is fine with the Top 15 programs hoarding all the talent
Hasn't he played 6 years? Does he have a 7th year of eligibility? Man, I feel like guys at Tech get 2-3 years.
Gotta love the wild west that resulted from the NCAA having zero forsite to cushion this so there are some parameters after NIL inevitably became a thing
Grabbing my popcorn to see how this plays with the suddenly apathetic NCAA. I think they want to let it go to hell so they can point and say "we told you so"
I think the NIL is moving things in the right direction, but it just adds one more incentive for players to jump in the portal, and the portal is adding too much chaos and instability for programs. There needs to be some better options for a school to sign an athlete and keep them on contract.
I think when a school recruits a player they should be able to present them with a scholorship offer or an employment offer. The scholarship works just as it does now. They're on scholarship, unpaid outside of standard student athlete benefits, are allowed to sign NIL deals, and are free to enter transfer portal.
An employment offer would be a single year or multi-year contract. Can include compensation and benefits, performance incentives, and exit clauses. Not all players are the same, not all schools are the same, they shouldn't be treated as such. This would allow all schools to be creative and flexible.
As an example, a school like Elon cannot grow their basketball program because anyone with talent transfers to a better program after a good individual season. But, under my suggestion, they could allocate some money to go out and sign what they believe is an under-the-radar talent to a multi-year contract. Improves their chances of bringing in talent and keeping it for more than a season.
Obviously some complexities, but it college basketball and football are semi-professional sports leagues. Have to start treating it that way. I just don't see many other options.
EDIT: and to put this in the context of Wong, he is an athlete that came into college and has substantially increased his "market value" year after year. So if he originally signed with Miami under a "scholarship offer", he is free to enter transfer portal, but he should be able to negotiate with Miami Athletic Department to sign an "employment contract" that includes compensation. Miami currently has no ammo to keep him outside of going to Ruiz another rich alum and begging them to give him what he wants in the form of an NIL. That's backwards. Wong and UM should be the parties in direct negotiation at this point, not Wong and UM negotiating via Ruiz. This would benefit both UM and Wong.
I agree, there has to be some way for the schools to contract talent given the way that this is heading. It's a shit show so far.
NIL is pay for play with players now demanding more money or they transfer while the regular students are saddled with a lifetime of debt just to step foot on campus.
Its only a matter of time before it all comes to a head, and its going to get ugly for everyone involved.
Right, your tax dollars going to bail out the loans of Miami's walk on's is coming soon to a tax bill near you. While boosters flat pay their players. Comical.
Sorry, but you own the consequences of your actions. If you choose to take out a student loan, that's on you. If you fail to understand the concept of ROI, that's your problem.
If you can't afford to go to college then don't go. Get a job and do a couple years of CC to knock out the basics while saving money, then go for two years to cover all the major-specific stuff. Or go to work for an employer who will help pay. Or get financial aid. Or earn a scholarship. Or enlist. Or listen to Mike Rowe and think harder about your career choices. Point is, there are a dozen different ways to avoid a lifetime of student loan debt. I can't say what's right for anyone else, but I do expect them to live with the consequences of the choices that they make.
Like it or not, our society values elite athletes far more than it does most other professions. This gives athletes leverage that 99.99% of the rest of the population will never have. And that means they'll get benefits (like "free" college, NIL deals, and more) that most folks will never get. C'est la vie.
This is spoken like someone who did not have to deal with the issues that the current generation is dealing with, so I'm not surprised to see you graduated 36 years ago. Lets just say this is as out of touch as parents telling their kids to just cold call hiring managers and handing their resume into front desks to get their name out there in the job search.
I don't care. And when the backlash comes (and it will come), neither will the masses.
I mean even as someone that's graduated in the last decade he's not wrong - there are a lot of ways to avoid loan debt even if the cost of college is sky high. People are funneled to go to four year universities but its far from the only option there's still a vast demand for skilled labor and a good portion of people can get a 2 year trade school paid for one way or another without debt. I certainly wish it was marketed more when I was going through the process.
Sure, but how many 18 year olds have learned finance? Most don't even get basic accounting in school so they're relying on their parents to help them make good choices that impact the next several decades of their lives. And a lot of parents push their kids to go to 4 year institutions because it worked for them and it's part of the formula the parents used for success. But the economics are so different now.
But you're also looking at the wrong side of it. The problem isn't athletes/whoever getting scholarships/money, it's that the cost of college is so high to begin with. Don't drag people down to put them on the level, pull the other people up.
"a rising tide lifts all ships" right?
What happens to the boats that are tied down? They end up sinking.
I completely agree. Tuition is out of control and I'm not advocating for eliminating student athletes getting money. I'm pointing out that it's unfair to blame an 18 year old for choosing to attend a 4 year institution when they don't have the scholarship/money. They've been told to go to a 4 year institution their entire lives by the adults around them. I'm hoping we see a market correction soon because I don't expect any major reforms. More people attending a 2 year and transferring or more people going to trade schools will hopefully decrease the demand a bit.
not to mention that the folks who are crying the loudest about student loan debt are from the first ever generation projected to make less money than the generations ahead of them. Prices for everything are going up at higher rates than wages. I don't know what's going to happen but it sort of feels like the bottom is going to fall out at some point and we could be in a world of hurt when that happens. And as much as people are going to want to blame politicians (mostly the current and immediately previous admins) this has been festering for DECADES and everyone carries some of the blame. Even us, the little folks, who vote with our dollars every time we participate in our consumer culture.
Yeah all valid points, kinda what I was getting at with "marketed" to me. I didn't understand the economics of school when I went. Kinda wild to look back and realize I probably didn't have $1,000 to my name and chose to pay $20k+ to go to school for 4 years like it was a no brainer
Edit: even wilder that someone would even consider writing a loan for $20k to me when I have 0 income and $1,000 of assets. The economics of college is mind boggling.
I agree 100% with this. I also am 100% opposed to it being an acceptable excuse for bad decisions.
Kids & parents today have an embarrassment of resources at their fingertips. Quite literally, they can draw on the entire accumulated body of human knowledge right on their phones. There is no excuse for anyone NOT knowing that the economics have changed and that taking out tens (or hundreds) of thousands of dollars of loans for a degree might be a really, REALLY bad idea. A few seconds of googling is all it takes to turn up loads of helpful info.
Ironically, the real solution to this problem is the one thing no one seems willing to do, and that's to get Uncle Sugar out of the business of issuing/guaranteeing student loans. That's what set the stage for this mess to begin with. Not saying that there aren't multiple factors at play (politicians, state funding, greedy college administrators, etc) but it all starts with easy, no-risk money.
Anyway sorry for the thread hijack, I'll shut up now.
Even worse is the idea that Uncle Sugar is going to start forgiving those loans. For those that have gone before and paid their loans off that is a slap in the face.
Just realized, I was getting to close to politics. Going outside to enjoy the weather. Have a nice day.
Assuming you took out loans when you were a student in the early 90s, based on averages, what you took out in student loans is less than 1/3 of what students need to take out now ($3k per year in 1997 vs $10k per year now) to go to those same schools. At that same time, the national average home selling price has risen from $177k in 1997 to over $500k today.
During this same time period, minimum wage has not increased, while the national average salary has only doubled from $27,500 to $55,000.
So... the cost of a student loan has tripled. The cost of housing has tripled. And salaries have only doubled.
So before you mouth off and say things like this thinking that you went through this same thing back in 1996 or 1997 when you graduated, just know that no, you didn't. And know that these issues are rapidly escalating right now. You might be old enough that it didn't impact you when you were a student, but it very well could impact your kids, or your grandkids. And I don't know about you, but I don't want my kids to live in poverty because they needed a college degree to get an entry level job, something that has become the norm across the eastern seaboard, if not the nation.
There are a lot of arguments here but this is way too close to the line of politics. Also your housing cost number is off by like 200k depending on the number you're actually using so I'll just leave that there
Us Housing prices in USD per quarter
Oh that's new homes, the average price of home is not 500k
The welders who work on the gas lines that have been designed make far more than the people who designed them (with their degrees). A good welder is making 6 figures a year. I know a couple of guys who are planning their retirement when they hit 40.
And you can't outsource that work (at least not yet). You can outsource the engineering, though.
Trades are a lot of where its at. Its hard work, but its in demand and pays very well because its something that is valued very much by society (at least the output is.)
of course inflation is going to start rising all prices shortly. When McDonalds needs to pay $15/hour to get somebody to flip burgers, you know that happy meal price is going up. Why should somebody work hard at construction when they can flip burgers for the same price. So construction workers pay is going up, so that new house or deck is going to start costing significantly more.
Did you see the study showing that the plumbers earn more than the surgeons? I did not real the primary literature, just the news articles, so I do not know the details of how it was calculated. Presume they were using net present value (NPV) as part of the calculation. That is $1 today is worth more than $1 in 15 years. But if they didn't, then the gap is even more in favor of the plumber. The plumber starts as an apprentice at something like 18 and works their way up earning more and more. The surgeon pays for 4 or more years of college + 4 years of medical school and then has to do residency/fellowship training. Earns decent money then but not great. By the time they get out and start making big bucks, so many years have past that their money is worth way less than the money the plumber was earning 8-10 years before. Take into account the debt and interest on it and, even though the surgeon can earn way more at age 40, they cannot catch up.
Other fun fact about surgeons. Had a friend who was in med school when I was in grad school. He was trying to decide on his specialty and had it down to surgery vs. pediatrics or OB/GYN. Sorry, I cannot remember if the other option was Peds or OB/GYN. I mean this was something like 25 years ago. Anyway, he then learned that the divorce rate among surgeons and surgical residents was something like 106%. On average, they get divorced more than once. He picked the Ped or OB/GYN path.
Not that I disagree with the sentiment here, but...
My son (22) went to community college while working almost full time. After two years he transferred to JMU to study business. He, fortunately enough, landed a lucrative internship, donates plasma and works his ass off all summer long. He'll likely graduate, after paying tuition and all of his living expenses (with a bit of help from mom and dad) with less than $7K in student loan debt.
Our second son is working as a mechanic at one of the local major dealerships and going to community college to earn his associates degree (with the hopes of being a head mechanic one day). No debt.
There are ways, and it takes a whole lot of counterintuitive/counter-cultual coaching from mom and dad.
I cannot begin to tell you how proud we are.
You sound like a great dad who also has an abundance of the (increasingly uncommon) common sense that is sorely needed these days.
I graduated school not that long ago and I went the trades route and gotta say that's kind of a weak take. I figured I didn't want the debt so I just went to work. Literally went from door to door with residential electric companies asking for an interview and now im high up in robotics and making a damn fine living even with inflation for someone with no degree.
To call that line of thought out of touch is a bit naive. Degrees if done correctly can have a big pay off but it's not the only way to climb the ladder. So many people don't really know what they want to do with themselves out of high school and it can be daunting but once you step out and realize all the opportunities out there it can sometimes be alot easier than going to more schooling.
It took my sister (was 1.5 yesrs away from a PHD when she quit) a long time to realize that people want to give you money, you just have to know how and then be there. She and her husband (does have a PhD) have two jobs that don't require any degrees or anything. They have a nice home, two cars, two kids, and are in England for 6 months so she can swim the English Channel. And while they planning and saved for this, taking 6 months to travel abroad is expensive.
So there are lots of routes, however going door to door asking for an interview typically doesn't work that way any more. It's hearsay, but one of my coworkers kids was told that if you handed in an in-person resume then they would definitely not hire you because it showed you were computer literate enough to work their systems.
Id agree the door to door isn't for all fields but atleast in the labor and skilled trades field it still works. But for all fields handing out resumes by hand is still a very proactive way to try and stand out still.
Opportunity is out there just sometimes need to be willing to be the low guy on the totem pole to get where you want to go.
Other than the fact both groups are students, the comparison between students graduating with debt and athletes receiving NIL dollars is apples to oranges.
Here's the best take on the current landscape I've seen.
NCAA leadership, empowered by the schools, failed so bad. They needed to get ahead of this and instead they kept their heads in the sand.
Fuck Wong and his flopping ass. Fuck Miami hoops in general. Larranaga has been running a shell game down there. They are good enough to pick off Duke and bad enough to lose to BC- every year. This golden parachute ride for Larranaga cant end soon enough for me. Dirty ass program. As far as wong goes- hes a JAG.. and now wants 6 figures to play for Miami. LMAO.
There is the DC we know and love.
I agree with it is a pay for play program with the article even referencing that Ruiz has over 70 NIL "Contracts" with Miami players. Let's be honest, he was probably earning 6 figures, but not mid 6 figures with a car. After all he only has 1 year of eligibility left.
How can he have an agent? Is the agent just there to negotiate NIL deals and that's ok?
Seems like those guys will find a way to work themselves into the overlap eventually.
Hmmm, guess this is what happens when guys are essentially semi-pro athletes and basically signing "contracts" lol. What a trainwreck.
And yes, I understand the vast amounts of money that these players bring in for their respective schools and conferences and so I think they deserve a piece of the pie. I just think it should be in a much more orderly fashion than NIL.
If this is where college sports are headed does it still make sense to hire coaches who are considered good recruiters? Wouldn't programs be better off hiring people who can bring in large NIL deals since money is going to win out in most recruiting battles.
Yeah you still need good coaches, most of this will be money based but kids can still look at a program with shit coaches and realize money isn't worth it.
Elon Musk for VT head football coach and Jeff Bezos for head basketball coach! As much as they seem to detest each other, they could try and outdo the other. Man, we could offer some great NIL deals!
Good luck finding somewhere that pays more than where you're at.
1) You're at Miami, one of the top schools for NIL.
2) You're Isaiah Wong, an above average college basketball player who most likely won't be an NBA draft pick.
So you're saying he's making the wong decision
My love for Virginia Tech aside, the thing I loved most about college football and college basketball was how hard the kids hustle because they are trying to get to the next level. It's what set collegiate sports apart from the pros where there are far too many times you can tell it's their job.
Football is a game. Basketball is a game. They're supposed to be fun to play and fun to watch.
And there was still something pure about collegiate football and basketball.
Now, because schools kept chasing more and more revenue, they have become businesses.
We had to pay the big-time coaches to keep the team hot and the seats filled. Then we had to pay the players because it was their hard work making all the money.
We killed collegiate sports.
This wasn't the first nail in the coffin, nor will it be the last. But each one makes it easier to hammer in the rest.
Personally, I would rather watch kids from my school who are students that just happen to also be gifted athletes than watch kids who are gifted athletes that are forced to go to class because it's the only way they have a chance to make it to the next level. I would rather watch a .500 team of kids that played their mediocre nuts off and are there all 4 years to get their degrees than I would keep this cycle of play a year here...play a year there...only play one year and it's off to the pros.
It shouldn't be this way. It didn't have to be this way. But we had to chase that fucking dollar. Always that infernal, fucking dollar!
I'm with you. Would rather watch Yale's men's hockey or women's volleyball teams than the (for all practical purposes) professional college leagues we are going to have shortly. If they are not already there in football. No real interest in basketball, so won't watch that anyway.
Yup. I mean...yeah. Couldn't have really said it better
I love it! His only crime is saying the quiet part out loud. We all suspect that NIL is going to end up as a pay-for-play disaster where there are clear haves and have nots. If this breaks the system faster, then I'm all for it.
Seth Greenberg fired off against the NIL agent.
Problem is he's wrong. Ruiz does own Canes hoops and he signs the checks to prove it. You can thank your employer and your sidekick Jay Bilas for that.
There needs to be some sort of recourse for the blatant tampering and pay for play that is supposedly against the rules. This is worse than the NFL and European Soccer.
At least they got some sort of picks/money for giving people up.
Can't embed but looks like wong has eaten some humble pie and tweeted out somewhat of an explanation
https://twitter.com/zaywong21/status/1520194058714501121?t=FpQtgDK17nbzz...
Sounds like he almost lost his NIL deal and no one was calling. He probably didn't read/understand his contract and could have had a clause where LifeWallet could back out. Kinda funny his explanation and excuse was it didn't come from him directly and a friend/family spoke out based on a private convo.
I'm glad he realized that he was in the wong
Tangentially related, I found this to be a good piece about college sports and NIL. Long, but worth the read
https://www.theringer.com/2022/4/26/23042800/college-football-nil-free-m...