Report: "USC and UCLA are planning to leave for the Big Ten as early as 2024"

DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.

Comments

I saw this tweet and didn't post anything about it on here because I was so confused. Like, I thought it was one of those fake reporter accounts.

I, uh...wow.

Yep. Really WTF news drop before a holiday weekend. They didn't even wait until Friday for the news dump, which is the most shocking part.

And ACC football sinks further into oblivion!

Time for SEC vs the B1G PACC

EDIT: in all seriousness, that's some ridiculous travel costs to introduce to a conference game slate. Guess >$1bil in tv revenue can offset a lot of plane tickets

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Very excited to see geographic rivals USC and Rutgers battle it out.

Big Ten was already looking to get $1.1 billion per year in their next tv deal before this news broke.

That's $79million per school per year for the Big Ten. And they're not adding USC and UCLA just to keep the payouts the same.

For comparison, the ACC takes in $240m per year for their tv deal, good for $17m per school per year.

The ACC is fucked.

This is my school
This is home

College Sports are done. Seriously this is so beyond stupid and straight money grab. VT better consider looking at alternatives YESTERDAY. Miami, FSU, and Clemson will be out the door before you know it and if we're not heading somewhere we're gonna be stuck in a glorified G5 conference

Go for it

VT has been looking at alternatives for years

We should have gone SEC years ago

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

His decision was made after a phone call with longtime Virginia Tech assistant coach Bud Foster. All Foster told him was, "We win. They don't."

Had to win the ACC basketball tournament first. Now we're good and we can leave.

Virginia Tech, the last ACC basketball tournament champion

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Can't wait for VT to join the Big 131.

I think they're in by default.

Make the move now. In college sports, there's gonna be two major conferences somewhere close to 30 teams each that will govern themselves (the NCAA will die). If you survey the landscape, that's about most of the P5 schools out there but a few could be left out. So you better be figuring out if you want to be Big10 or SEC. Don't wait.

We're more BIG aligned than SEC, I could see the move but we're gonna have to reach out not vice versa

Go for it

Yeah, that's what USC and UCLA did apparently.

All the big money knows where this road is heading. Not surprised. With USC on board, my guess is the Big 10 will renew heavy pressure on Notre Dame to commit as well a full member.

If anything, this is going to just push ND into waiting out the ACC's demise before deciding to join the Big Ten in full.

This is my school
This is home

Probably won't have to wait long.

Pain is Temporary, Chicks Dig Scars
Glory is Forever, Let's Go Hokies!!

We kinda cut both ways imo. University wise (ie everything not sports), we have more in common with Big 10 culturally. Sports-wise, probably moreso with how the fan base is with how it treats sports, we're more culturally similar to the SEC. Considering our geography, I guess it makes sense that we'd be a mix of both

I dont see us more like the SEC fanwise. Maybe it's changed but last game I was at (anOSU) we have a long ways to get to SEC tailgating. Heck I know multiple people in Morgantown that bought an RV just so they could sleep at the stadium the night before the game so they didn't have to deal with traffic in the morning and could start tailgating earlier. I never met anyone is Blacksburg like that. And thats not even SEC.

There's no line to pitch a tent at 4pm on Fridays so you can get your tailgating spot. Half the tailgates I went to bought food instead of making it. Most at VT were just their to drink .... which really brings me to Big Ten tailgates, PSU had people drinking early, Wisconsin had people drinking early, Nebraska, well it was a night game, but they drank. The big ten tailgates felt way more like tech. The SEC tailgates felt like you're going to wedding shower where everyone talked more about football than the bride/groom.

Except Vandy, they sucked at tailgating, we walked for like a hour looking for tailgates and couldn't find them so we drank inthe hotel next to the stadium.

So does this mean Clemson, and maybe FSU and Miami will leave the ACC for the B10 and the SEC at some point soon?

For any team to leave enough have to leave at one time to kill the conference or all the teams that stay will just collect media rights money for a decade from the one or two that leave.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Interesting because UCLA cares MUCH more about academics than sports...USC not so much so that makes more sense

B10 is the 'academics' league

Twitter me

UCLA? The school #2 in number of sports titles?

Oh no they will have to deal with Michigan and Northwestern now.

I am not sure what a conference does for academics anymore anyways. The world is way more connected now so what's stopping them from keep ties to Stanford for projects?

if (when) this all comes to a head, I'm very worried about the future of Virginia Tech athletically.

Genuinely speaking, our biggest contribution to any conference would be our football program. A program which has been backsliding for the better part of 10-15 years that just hired a head coach with zero years of experience. We have only been in one conference title game the past 10 years and haven't played in a BCS/NY6 bowl since January, 2012.

Our basketball team is on the rise, sure, and our olympic sports are doing well, but you're not adding anyone because of that. Our endowment is tiny, our revenue streams are some of the lowest in the Power 5, and our fundraising is only just now starting to get its act together.

Maybe you could say that by adding VT you add broadcasting regions to a conference, but we all know the truth that any conference could accomplish the same by just adding UNC.

For us, this is about the worst timing for everything to upend itself as it could get.

This is my school
This is home

VT could bring a significant chunk of the DC media market. Big 10 has that a bit with Maryland but they could put the clamps down on it if they take us as well. SEC taking us would open that door for them.

i can tell you right now that despite the massive fan base up here, the local market doesn't give a sh*t about VT sports. Every TV/radio station up here is more than happy to talk about UMD, UVA, and the occasional George Washington or George Mason reference, I have NEVER seen or heard VT sports brought up on the air.

I live in DC and use the radio to listen to Tech all the time. 106.7 The Fan plays our football and basketball games.

yea I am not sure what you're talking about... I live in the NoVA area, listen to 106.7 the fan, and they talk about VT a good amount when there is big news or playing in a big game. Maybe not as much as UMD, but I wouldn't be even close to saying "the local market doesnt't give a shit about VT sports."... You hear more about UMD just cause all of the Junkies went there.

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

"the local market doesnt't give a shit about VT sports."... You hear more about UMD just cause all of the Junkies went there.

Which is why i stopped listening to the Junkies years ago

I mean, to each their own... I like the Junkies not just for sports talk, but also how they really relate to the common folk and how they make talking about their daily lives hilarious

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

I'm what they call a P1 and only listen to them for their daily lives and how they literally can't do anything for themselves, especially Bickell.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

His decision was made after a phone call with longtime Virginia Tech assistant coach Bud Foster. All Foster told him was, "We win. They don't."

I think that's why most people love/listen to them... just so damn relateable and funny.

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

It got a little better when one of the Junkies had a daughter attend Tech.

Yeah VT alumni dominate NOVA, a population of 2mil+ and growing. The other schools in the area with a major foothold are UMD, Penn State, WVU, & UVA. UMD barely reaches into NOVA. The Big 10 could basically have a stranglehold by adding VT or the SEC could try to grab half of that market by adding VT plus UVA/WVU. Adding UNC won't bring you a market share in DC.

This scenario, however, does rely on those conferences caring about regional market shares, which they don't really do anymore.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

So, do we prefer to try and join the Big 10 or SEC?

Maybe neither. Unless the new leagues equalize revenue and have a salary cap etc, VT would go 6-6 at best

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

I vote Big 10

Their football identity feels more blue collar and I think VT would fit in well with that.

I also don't like how UVA dresses up for games and that's how the majority of the SEC feels to me.

Plus, I feel like we could hold our own in the Big 10. In the SEC I think we become bottom feeders.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

BIG 10 for sure. You're exactly right, the SEC is a league where they dress up for football games like UVA or Clemson. The Big 10 is where you smash cases of beer in shorts and a cutoff tee during the early fall then bundle up with blankets in November.
Joining the Big 10 would also give me the opportunity to make drives from Chicago to Hokies games. And we would finally get our matchup with Wisconsin.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Big Ten requires AAU status to get in, something we don't have.

They might make an exception, as Nebraska actually lost their membership after joining, but so far, they have not admitted anyone to the Big Ten without being a member.

This is my school
This is home

Which means Oregon, Washington, Arizona, LOLUVA, GT, UNC and Pitt all on the table.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

VT gonna get left behind - unless we convince the SEC to take us along with Clemson, FSU and possibly Miami

Onward and upward

LOL GT and Pitt are getting relegated fo sho

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

We would just have to apply and do some paperwork and then pay some money. 20 years ago we meet the standards.

No medical school 20 years ago and no way the endowment was big enough.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

https://www.aau.edu/who-we-are/membership-policy

Medical school is not required. Also endowment isn't directly linked. It's all about how much money you spend on research and memberships to the national academy of science and other things like that. Grants aren't part of the endowment.

EDIT: also Purdue doesn't have a medical school

Tell that to Nebraska.

https://journalstar.com/news/local/education/emails-wisconsin-and-michig...

Perlman told the Journal Star his speech focused on the public arguments he made regarding the AAU's rankings that had labeled UNL as failing to meet the organization's research and academic standards. He took issue with the AAU's treatment of land-grant schools and universities without medical schools.

UNL is a land-grant university, and the University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha is considered a separate entity for AAU purposes.

Perlman said the AAU unfairly devalues agricultural research -- part of the institutional mission of each land-grant university -- and skews its results in favor of universities with on-campus medical centers

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Yes, the AAU values science and engineering spending. Nebraska wasn't doing that and the medical school's, which is not part of UNL, spending didn't count. VT spends a boatload on engineering research as it's a top tier engineering school. That's what gets us in. That's how Purdue gets in.

Correct. A bunch of AAU schools don't have med schools. MIT, Cal Tech, UC-Berkeley and Princeton among them.

The amount of BS thrown around with certainty on VT message boards about the AAU is astounding.

You mean 4 of the highest caliber academic programs in the country with tons of post doc degrees and research being done? 20 years ago Tech wasn't touching AAU status and to think they were is ignoring what AAU strives to be, exclusive.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

What's a post doc degree

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Sorry was supposed to be doctoral degrees and post doc fellowships.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

This is not true. It's a preference.

Michigan State wasn't admitted to the AAU until almost 15 years after joining as the 10th team. B1G presidents almost certainly knew Nebraska was getting shown the AAU door. And there was debate whether it would have gotten in otherwise, but not a certainty it wouldn't.

Even if it was true, do you really think the B1G will say no to Notre Dame?

SEC. I'd much prefer away games at UF, UGA and Ole Miss over UMD, Rutgers and Northwestern.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

His decision was made after a phone call with longtime Virginia Tech assistant coach Bud Foster. All Foster told him was, "We win. They don't."

Does this mean The Alliance is over?

If it's not, it's extremely weakened

since we've already had one arrested development reference...

Whit sure has his work cut out for him

VT '17

This is at the University President level, not the Athletic Director level.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Good thing we have a former B1G guy in the big chair

I am not sure what to do with my hands now

Unless the Big Ten changes their admissions requirements, it won't matter because we aren't an AAU member

This is my school
This is home

Yep, VT is screwed on this one. Don't have the academic chops for Big 10 and don't win enough any more to make the SEC.

VT's academic chops are just fine. If it comes to it and VT could make the B1G more money than it costs, VT's academics would not be a barrier at all.

IMO AAU membership and academics are noise, not signal, here.

The real questions are - how big does the B1G want to get and what are its other priorities in evaluating potential new members?

Until they accept a school that isn't an AAU member it has to be a consideration in projections.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Of course it's a consideration. The B1G has always said as much. But it is a preference, not a rule - and ultimately the member presidents have their own malleable criteria for consideration and admission.

As for accepting non-AAU schools, of the last five schools the B1G admitted, one wasn't a AAU member and one was known to soon be getting the heave-ho. And don't think the B1G wouldn't take Notre Dame (which is not an AAU member).

So again, if the B1G were to think VT would be a big enough net plus revenue-wise, culturally, etc, to make it a partner, IMO neither academic reputation nor lack of AAU membership will be a stumbling block. But if it's a close call (and it very well might be), it doesn't help that VT is not an AAU member.

It's hilarious that people are still getting so caught up on the AAU thing while it is 100% accepted that they are ready to accept Notre Dame with no questions asked

I don't know how firm the AAU "requirement" is, but a couple of thoughts on this:

1. Just like with the NCAA, Notre Dame is the exception that proves the rule. Their national fanbase and huge marketing appeal would provide ample justification to relax any AAU requirement.

2. ND has the academic chops to be considered for AAU membership. If the B1G wants them, and AAU membership is truly a requirement, this doesn't seem like a big hurdle. I think it's far more likely that the B1G would simply point out that ND is academically on par with many leading AAU schools and call it good enough.

Looking beyond Notre Dame for a moment and assuming that the B1G wants to expand into VA, why would they prefer VT over UVA? Sadly, neither program moves the needle in football, and we're at best comparable in other sports. UVA has established and very highly rated Medical and Law schools, a much larger endowment, generates $100M more in research dollars, and is already an AAU member. What criteria would favor VT, aside from (maybe) football potential?

As I've demonstrated repeatedly, I suck at predictions, but I just don't see a scenario where VT ends up in the B1G unless it's some kind of package deal with UVA. However, a package deal dilutes the additional revenue significantly, and I'm not sure it makes financial sense for the B1G to take both. If it comes to this, they're more likely to look west (Stanford, Cal, Oregon, and UW) or further south (UNC, GT).

I maintain that our best hope is for UVA to go to the B1G and for VT to go to the $EC. That avoids any interference from the legislature/governor, and would appear to be a win for both schools & conferences alike.

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."
--unknown

You may be right, but...

VT has a much bigger - and growing - enrollment (particularly undergraduate enrollment). That will translate into more alumni dollars and political clout in future years. Size matters to the B1G - it's probably the biggest reason it is dealing from a position of strength today.

While current status is important, conference membership - and expansion (particularly as it relates to the rust belt B1G) - is much more about potential.

I'm still going to say that $$$ > AAU membership.

My bigger fear would be that Michigan and Ohio State would rather welcome in a doormat (UVA) over a competitive team. (See: Maryland, Rutgers. Were they chosen because of AAU membership, or because of TV markets and they don't interfere with the national championship aspirations of Ohio State and Michigan? Let's just say they were perfect candidates. )

Frankly, VT could fit in with either the SEC or the B1G. I'd be willing to be that those conferences can see that, too.

Clemson is bound to jump on one of these trains, and I bet UNC would be with them. We've got to hitch ourselves to them too, otherwise we'll be left in one of the consolation leagues leftover after all of this mess

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Tbh my bigger question is...is this how the non revenues die? I mean god if you're like...rutgers wrestling or maryland volleyball how do you convince yourself to pay for cross country trips to UCLA/USC on a yearly basis and vice versa. I may be over reacting but we already saw schools discontinue non revenues at the height of the pandemic, how does a Rutgers/Illinois/similar school have the revenue to pay for all those cross country travel expenses

They'll really get after ya

BIg Ten overall media deal is how.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Ah yes of course, hadnt thought about what it must be like to not get shafted by your own tv deal. My bad

They'll really get after ya

how does a Rutgers/Illinois/similar school have the revenue to pay for all those cross country travel expenses

The next Big Ten tv deal will pay more than $79 million per year to each school

This is my school
This is home

You don't have to have the non-revenue sports play the cross-country schedules, either through regionalized schedules within these big conferences, or separate conferences for those sports.

In this case, it looks like those teams are going to have some long flights

There's no way this also includes water polo

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

No beach volleyball?

Wowza

In this case, it looks like those teams are going to have some long flights

bus rides

FTFY

Even when you get skunked; fishing never lets you down. ๐ŸŽฃ

At the rate these conferences are growing, I feel like there's going to be more schools than conference games in just about all sports, so there's going to be several sub-conferences.

ruroh, the chips are falling. it is just a matter of time for the ACC to wash out. Football is the game, and nobody is watching ACC football.

With both UCLA and USC members of AAU that means every school in Big at time of joining was a AAU member. That's a big sticking point for Tech to try and get in.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

We better hope the SEC still wants that Mid-Atlantic market... or the B1G.

Create the PACC for coast to coast chaos!!!!

Just rebrand ACC as the "All Coast Conference", easy!

We're in the endgame now, and if I'm Whit, I'm not sitting around waiting for the next shoe to drop.

Call up Carla Williams and and get the ball rolling on a move to either the SEC or Big Ten. At the same time, see if Bubba Cunningham or Graham Neff would be interested in joining forces. A VT/UVa or VT/Clemson/UNC pairing would be hard for any conference to turn down, and would kick off the dissolution of the ACC as a viable conference, effectively voiding the Grant of Rights agreement.

This is my school
This is home

I'm hopeful that some of these behind the scenes discussion/scenarios have already happened. From what I gather, Whit has been all over this. I feel confident VT will have a seat at the table, whether it's Big Ten or SEC or a package with a few other teams. I feel almost certain the ACC's days are numbered.

I wish I had your confidence in this.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

What have you gathered that leads you to believe this?

I believe that Whit is one of the best ADs in the country. But this situation is completely unprecedented. The landscape is changing rapidly, and VT/The ACC has very little leverage.

Twitter me

I feel confident VT will have a seat at the table

Bartender, whatever he's having. ...and keep 'em coming!

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

I don't see what VT brings to any conference. A mediorce football team which has a cool entrance song? A folksy basketball coach who won a conference title?
I mean, I hope we hitch ourselves to some othe teams but it could be wishful thinking. If I'm UVA, I am heading for the Big 10 as fast as I can. I think they have the same football record as us over the past 5 seasons and a national title in men's basketball. If UCLA can leave Berkeley in a lurch, I'm not sure we can count on the governer to strong arm anyone into admitting the Hokies along with UVA.
Sorry to be so negative, but B1G and SEC hold all the cards here and can cherry pick exactly who they want. They can break up any 'alliances' that AD's put together. No AD is going to turn down an extra $50M to get his 'buddy' school into the conference. They have a fiduciary responsibility to the school which is way bigger than a handshake agreement.

How do we have the academic chops for the ACC where only Michigan and Northwestern would be in the top half of schools(us new) ACC has 7 top 40 schools. Big Ten 2.

We rank above Iowa, MSU, Nebraska and are ranked very close to PSU, Indiana, Minnesota, and Rutgers.

If they are talking other Pac12 schools themits Cal Stanford or UW, or they don't care about academic. And Wasington isn't ranked that far ahead of us.

Only 5 Big Ten schools have better engineering grad school (WTF Sands how did UMd pass us!!!) We are top 25 in earth sciences grad school with only 3 Big Ten schools ahead of us.
38th in CS with 8 better Big Ten schools, however 3 of them are tied at 34th, so we are only 1 spot away. We are 58th in physics, which isn't that good, 10 Big Ten schools ahead if us, but most are ranked highly either.
We are 59th in grad math, which does put us only ahead of Nebraska.

And not that it would matter for research money, VT would be the 4th best engineer undergrad in the big ten behind Purdue, Michigan and Illinois

Agreed. I think the whole Big Ten academic prestige is largely blowing its own horn. ACC is the best top to bottom academic league in the P5. And honestly the top of the SEC is comparable to the Big Ten (Vandy and NW on par, Florida on par with Michigan, etc). I'm starting to hope we do end up in the SEC. Pretending this is anything other than about money is laughable and that's why I think the Big Ten is pretty disingenuous.

B1G wants AAU schools. Period. UNC and UVA have a shot, with only UNC being close to a lock. GT and Duke too but GT is too far south and Duke is private and brings nothing to football and that is all this is about (I mean, if AAU Kansas didn't get in then Duke is in the same boat as a basketball school). I agree that it is totally bogus but most AAU schools are/have been good enough to let B1G use the excuse.

We can argue that UNCheat shouldn't be considered academically strong with their class scandal but they are AAU and we're not. It is probably bullshit just like having ISO 9000/9001 certification is required to get certain contracts. But the Hokies are going to be in an uphill battle to get into B1G without it.

SEC doesn't care but we're getting pretty far past our football heyday to get them interested.

The Big Ten also had a hard and fast rule that any school added needed to be in a state that was either currently in the B1G or bordering a state that had one.

They clearly blew that up by going USC and UCLA. Also, with Nebraska losing their AAU status, who knows. Maybe there's some wiggle room there.

This is my school
This is home

If they're pulling schools from Cali, I don't think they'll care about GT being too far south.... This is 100% a money grab, and GT gives them a hold on, or at least presence in, Atlanta. I wouldn't be surprised one bit.

Warning- Filter lost.

"Look at this... This is just spectacular.... These people are losing their minds"

This is a sports end-game, not an academic one.

Looks to me like it will end up being two conferences, SEC and BIG, and everyone else.

So it's a matter of how big they want to be, and it's pretty clear that big is the goal.

I don't see what VT brings to any conference.

  • Football culture (thus potential)
  • A great roadtrip
  • Passionate fanbase
  • A pretty good school
  • The midatlantic TV market

We're not a top 20 program in the nation, but we're also not outside the top 50. Top 30-35 feel right to me. We bring a lot to a conference. That said we don't bring enough to boost revenues for everyone in the conference, like an ND, a Texas, etc would

Twitter me

You nailed it. We're good. Maybe even very good. Unfortunately for us, the Power 2 conferences are picking off the Texas and UCLA of the world and leaving the leftovers to get screwed.

A couple of years ago, they added Maryland and Rutgers.

This is Fox getting back at ESPN... which is like two brothers fighting it while the parent (the Mouse) just watches and decides what to do, but does nothing because in the end they get the enjoyment of the carnage and the ability to teach a lesson afterwards... in this case, shake hands and make a 32+ team super conference.

and I hate that this is happening. This is another step away from any of this being about sports. I really really miss the time when conference shake-ups happened once or twice every decade. Now its an annual thing and its not because schools are graduating and getting more competitive - its because of TV contracts and getting away from horribly managed conferences.

I'm not sure how Fox has any reason to "get back" at ESPN, other than losing some of the Texas and Oklahoma games -- which ESPN already has partial rights to. Fox was already getting a better pick of games, as they "stole" OSU/Michigan from the Mouse a few years ago. And with Fox already having at least partial rights to all of the number conferences, teams moving from one to another would be a zero-sum game for them.

Now, if one of the number conferences were to target an ACC team (since no one's leaving the SEC), it might be different.

Besides, Fox Sports wasn't part of the sale to Disney.

ESPN owns a monolopy on the sport right now. They control almost 100% of the mainstream media narrative.

Also, Fox owns ~60% of the B10N, so they have financial stake in the B10's success.

Twitter me

it just dawned on me - this is why Packer and Durham are ending their run on friday. Its so the Big~10 can make their announcement on Monday morning and then start the Durham and Packer show covering Big~10 sports for Fox.

I legit wonder if this is related and a massive shake up is all but a done deal behind the scenes.

I just watched their announcement from this morning. They didn't look concerned one bit about their future. The timing of their announcement and the leak about UCLA & USC is too coincidental.

Big changes coming. Great quote from David Ubben of the athletic:

Plenty of folks were upset about NIL and transfers killing the soul of college football when the real culpritโ€”cash-fueled realignmentโ€”has been doing it slowly over the past two decades.

This is so stupid. College sports is about regionalism and these superconferences just eliminate that. Who gives a fuck about UCLA vs Minnesota?

The dumbest part is once we go to two superconferences they'll just reinvent conferences by splitting their 30 teams up into regional divisions. Then the B1G and SEC will each decide their own national champion and we'll have an argument about who the actual best team is. In a few decades they'll have an agreement for the champions to play each other. Then we'll argue about the teams that got left out and look! we've reinvented the College Football Playoff.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Nicely played.

It's Time to go to Work

Its pretty obvious to see how this all plays out.

SEC and Big Ten split away from the NCAA to become the National League and American League of what will be known as Major College Athletics (MCA). They will set up postseason tournaments across all sports that look very similar to how its run now in North American professional sports (tournament to crown the Conference champion, Conference champions play each other in the MCA Finals).

SEC and Big Ten swell to 24 to 32 teams each. Within their conference you have anywhere from 2 divisions of 16 teams to 4 divisions of 7 or 8 that play over the course of the year with rotating schedules to play cross divisional games. You also work out arrangements to play a range of 'Interleague' play with the other conference that rounds out the OOC, most of this set up in advance by the leagues.

This is my school
This is home

In that scenario I wouldn't be opposed to seeing terms like inter league friendly's and relegation. If this is going to be a business and not a sport, than manage it like a business.

Ideally this is what happens, and for football that's not a bad option. It will really hamper basketball since the tourney is the crown jewel of that sport and it's allure is that anyone can win, even a tiny school.

But even if this is ideal, we have to remember, college sports are stupid. They will overcomplicate things and bicker with each other producing a sub par product and ignoring the obvious best path.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

If the MCA wanted to keep the allure of the tournament, all they have to do is keep everything the same and host it as an invitational. It would be the main championship that the media covers so it would carry the prestige.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

+1 this x a billion

"Give me a fuยขking beer", Anonymous Genius

In order to survive, I think that the ACC, Pac-12(10), and Big 12 need to combine/realign. ACC take one team to take us to 16, the other two combine to be 18 or 20. Have made for TV cross country matchups and other scheduling agreements. If we can "combine" into one super conference, we can get a monster deal from Fox, who work with the Big 12 and PAC 12 already

I don't know what a Hokie is, but God is one of them!

The other thing I thought of is that the B12+P10/12+ACC could do an actual 'alliance' where they bargain together for TV rights. I would imagine that one package with three conference championships, and tier 1, 2, and 3 rights for 40 teams would be valuable, especially for ESPN (all tier 3 games could go on ESPN+). I don't think it would make the same amount per team as the B10 or SEC, but I think it would be more competitive than the conferences on their own.

Twitter me

I'm over hear just hoping promotion/relegation gets introduced at some point. I think it's the only way to preserve the sport.

Twitter me

This 1000%

These schools aren't signing up for these conferences with the possibility they get kicked out for bad play. They're joining to secure their own bag without giving a shit about the rest.

This is my school
This is home

Rutgers, Vandy, Maryland, NW and Purdue really hit the lottery long term.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I wouldn't lump Purdue in there with those guys. They're a big Midwest player with a passionate fanbase. Large public research university as opposed to NW/Vandy and they don't have the apathetic fan base of UMD/Rutgers.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Agree they have a decent fan base. They REALLY hate Indiana to the point that at literally EVERY kickoff of EVERY home football game the crowd roars with ' I...U....Sucks! '. Also when my friend and I went to the game we played there in the mid 2010s we attended a "Pack the Mack" womens volleyball game that had a crowd of 4000-5000 who paid $5 each and were doing synchronized cheers (led by cheerleaders) to each bump, set, and spike.

From the 2018 VT-uva game-"This is when LEGENDS are made!"

This comment made me think of that European Super League they were trying to start up last year.

Oh very much so, except here the 'fuck you, I got mine' mindset is very much a part of the American way and will receive minimal pushback once it's all settled, just so long as all the elites are taken care of.

This is my school
This is home

It would have to be done within a conference, whatever that may look like. Super conference or a full new football organization breaking away, they could make it happen within their mega TV deal so everyone makes bank somehow.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

Here we go. Pac-12 and ACC will dissolve in next few years and the desirable teams will go Big Ten or SEC for new super conference alignment. Writing is on the wall.

I guess I should have figured we were on a sinking ship... but I had hope until now. Yikes.

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

Can't wait to see how a 3-5-5-5-5-5 scheduling model works out...

Seriously, I can't really wrap my head around what the end game is with all of this. It seems like the sports version of mutually assured destruction. Maybe I'm not thinking outside of the box enough.

I remember when the first move by the ACC to grab Big East teams and did not include us in the initial grab. I think it was Miami, BC, and Syracuse first. I remember thinking how screwed we were, then Mark Warner came in and basically strong armed UVA into making sure we were part of the move, which then we go and Syracuse got the boot.

I hope it all works out like it did then, but this time feels different. I do think we are way more attractive to poach than many other ACC schools but who knows where this goes.

How I'm feeling about college sports now...things like this and the current state of NIL are going to make me less and less interested in following, which honestly makes me bummed out as hell.

If I didn't get a degree from Tech, I'd probably be out on it. I'll never be fully disinterested, but damn if it doesn't suck watching the barn burn down.

You aren't alone. It makes it way less enjoyable. I get that there is a business side to this, but does it really have to be the dominant thing compared to the actual sports themselves?

I'm at the point right now where pro sports are the priority as far as who gets my viewing time and concern. The college version of me would think that current version of me has lost his mind and there is no way I could ever go back to prioritizing pro sports after my VT experience, but here we are.

Honestly, the NFL has had a significantly more compelling on-field product for several years now. The influx of young coaches and executives has made for a diversity of schemes and team-building approaches across the sport while relative parity allows for legitimately surprising results. And the television product has far fewer commercials with every game finishing in a tidy 3-hours.

No disagreement here. The only thing holding me back from going all-in on the NFL is that I can't watch what I want to, and I'm not going to DirecTV just for Sunday Ticket. But, the moment the NFL gets a legitimate streaming service like every other major sport, I'll be signing up immediately.

Almost every Ohio State fan I talk to says they would love to have another series with VT, hopefully they talk to their president

I am not sure what to do with my hands now

Before you say it's over, the B10's product on the field will barely be helped by this. UCLA Iowa, USC Northwestern, I'm falling asleep just thinking about it. Lack of geographic sense will minimize the growth potential from this. It adds unnecessary costs and hurts product on the field long term. The best thing for all ACC schools is probably not to panic and stay put.

Time for the ACC to go scorched earth. Immediately add Okie State, TTU, Baylor, ND; then Kansas and Nova for hoops.

Then shift revenue to unevenly benefit the schools adding more. Bigger slice to ND Clemson FSU Miami us; much smaller to Wake BC Cuse UVA (jk but maybe). Use unequal revenue sharing to push the small teams out and incentivize bigger teams joining.

I agree that the ACC needs to do something fast to survive, but let's be real. If, and it's a big if, ND joins a conference, it's going to be the B1G. Remember this is all about money. The ACC likely can't offer the money that the B1G can for ND. And, given their rivalries already in that conference, I don't see them signing the dotted line for the ACC

Warning- Filter lost.

"Look at this... This is just spectacular.... These people are losing their minds"

In the early 20th century Tech played Emory and Henry. If Whit doesn't have a plan the Hokies may be playing them again.

Not up to Whit. This is Sands and the boards deal (and Senators and Governors)

If it comes down to the Power 2 (and I really hope it doesn't)

Reaction 1: we better go SEC over Big 10. More money and better product long term, AND despite what people say, I think we could hold our own and win games there.

We would be the main SEC school in the NC VA MD PA area. We could finally big dog Penn State in their own backyard. We'd get equal revenue share and have a solid recruiting footprint to basically get who we want.

Reaction 2: We're getting what was always going to happen. Blue bloods and other large public schools joining together to make more money. Then the 2000's Big East schools, smaller P5 and larger American/CUSA schools being brought together in a lower tier league. It doesn't make sense for Cuse Wake & BC to be in a better conference than USF Cincy Memphis or ECU. Schools of that size belong together and that's probably what we're going to get when all the dominoes fall.

This right here

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

His decision was made after a phone call with longtime Virginia Tech assistant coach Bud Foster. All Foster told him was, "We win. They don't."

Reminder: ACC pays $17m annually per school

This is my school
This is home

It would make sense for them to add more teams out west.

I don't care if we end up in either the BIG or SEC, as long as we are not left out.

USC, UCLA, and Liberty, right?

Holy fucking shit

That's unfathomably bad for the ACC

Update: and sure enough, guess who the B1G is rumored to be after now

This is my school
This is home

I mean this is so bad that it really does make you wonder if John Swofford did anything right during his tenure as Commissioner. Every major move was bungled. Every long term decision was half assed.

And now the conference is going to go under because of it.

Oh, and right after the state of NC committed $15m to the ACC HQ in Charlotte literally yesterday.

This is my school
This is home

I certainly hope VT ends up at the big boy table when the dust settles, but I have zero sympathy for the ACC and it's inevitable demise. This is what you get when you have UNC lackeys running the show and keeping Tobacco Road happy all these years.

Notre Dame and Stanford makes a lot of sense

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

hmm... interesting and totally expected. I remember somebody on here explaining that Notre Dame has the ACC by the balls years ago. The original deal with them was total shit and while this level of conference restructuring is unprecedented, our deal gave Notre Dame all the power.

Hopefully VT is off the sinking ship soon. Big Ten is a better feel, but SEC is better mapping rights wise.

Swofford's legacy for sure. Destroying the ACC. At least he and his son got rich though!

More like $$$'s legacy.

This was ALWAYS going to happen like this.

Football > Basketball

It sounds like there is a very good chance we really are on the outside looking in on expansion and very well could be left out completely

This is my school
This is home

UNC and Duke are attached at the hip and to a large extent to NC State as well. I have a feeling that trio would be a package deal anywhere and one the SEC and Big Ten might not want. Duke is elite in basketball but brings nothing in football. I have a suspicion VT might sit better than you think. Tobacco Road will likely hang around in the ACC until it's too late. I'm hopeful VT is on the phone with UVA, Clemson, FSU etc trying to map this out.

Yeah I don't buy the VT will be left out all alone fearmongering. We're in it with the whole ACC. More likely the ACC picks up Big 12 schools or disbands and VT moves into the superconferences. Unlikely we'll be UConn-ed.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

I, for one, welcome our new SEC overlords.

(Please don't send us to the Big 10)

Sort of related here...

I am somewhat connected and happen to have heard from someone inside the UNC athletic department (who operates whatever part of the organization that oversees the NIL situation for UNC athletics) that the ACC is dead in the water and can only survive the NIL landscape, let alone the conference realignment situation, for another few years.

What these SEC and BIG schools are now doing is telling their big donors that the that there is enough revenue coming in from the TV deals that they can now begin putting those big $$ donations directly towards the NIL... The ACC schools simply do not have the same luxury as they need the TV $$ PLUS the continued support of these big donors in order to simply operate.

It's game over for the ACC. VT must do what its always done - fight for a place at the table.

Is coronavirus over yet?

I hope your wrong. But I dread you are right.

So can 8 teams from the ACC come together and essentially dissolve the conference?

SEC:
FSU
Miami
Clemson
VT

Big 10:
UVA
UNC

Big 12:
Louisville
NC state.

Why the hell would anyone risk losing GoR for a move to the Big 12

This is my school
This is home

But how rock solid is that grant of rights if 8 teams decide to leave at once? Can 8 schools vote to eliminate it? The grant of rights is great to keep 1 or 2 schools from jumping ship, but not a bunch. With the money at stake here I don't think anything is off the table

There's too many moving pieces in such a plan to risk going to a conference that is likely just as dead as the one they're leaving. Going to the SEC or Big Ten will help cover the gamble of losing all of the ACC money. The Big 12 doesn't offer that kind of guarantee.

I sure hope Whit is being proactive! This is a dangerous situation for the Hokies if a move isn't made. I'm more in favor of us joining the SEC for a multitude of reasons... geography, recruiting... getting to play tenneseee.... ๐Ÿ’๐Ÿปโ€โ™€๏ธ

Would love this, although it's showing 21 teams...

I agree with others on this board that tech feels more like a B1G school in terms of personality, but I have to admit that map does look awful pretty.

Edit: and maybe we get our annual Miami game back this way too.

If you feel the leather in your hand let it rip.

I do think our admin and general alignment lean toward Big Ten. But agreed, that map is like my custom conferences playing NCAA on PS3 back in the day. Would kind of be great for VT and NC State to stick it to their in state rival and break away. VT would also be a juggernaut in VA recruiting.

I like the B1G idea a lot but man this map just makes a ton of sense. B1G goes full on north and west coast and SEC goes full on southern football schools that are also good at basketball. I'd definitely be fine with either.

I'm hoping:
VT, UNC, Duke, NCSt, Clemson, GT, FSU, and Miami to the SEC
UVA, Pitt, Syra, BC, ND to the Big Ten
Louisville and Wake to the Big 12

I think the three Carolina teams will want to stay together, though UNC to the Big Ten would make sense, which might then have Duke go along for the ride. I think we're a better fit for the SEC but LOLUVA is a better fit for the Big Ten, though I could see all of VA being swooped south too.

Louisville and Wake might be better off going to the AAC rather than Big12.

This is moving at hyper speed now.

I guess Packer and Durham getting cancelled mid-broadcast yesterday wasn't insignificant after all. Some big tectonic shifts are happening.

nah... this is more like it...

can we pull together TKP and make sure someone is delivering a fresh cup of coffee and a sanity care package to Whit every hour, around the clock through the weekend?

So begins the new round of musical chairs. Chaos season.

Yeah ACC is toast, no matter how this shakes out.

VB born, class of '14

Yeah if Oregon and Washington go to the big 10, It's going to be a free for all and the ACC will 100% be raided by the SEC.

Yeah off the top of my head considering only geography something like FSU, Miami, Clemson, NCST, VT and maybe GT to SEC?

Pitt, Syracuse, BC, and Louisville to the BIG? Uva, wake, Unc and Duke somewhere together?

Idk, shit's fucked either way. You'll have the BiG presented by FOX and the SEC presented by ESPN. and the rest will be cute and fun like the MAC is now.

VB born, class of '14

If UVA and VT aren't married by Virginia legislature anymore this makes so much sense. UNC and Duke being obsessed with controlling the ACC could end up boning them. It's going to be a really interesting couple weeks (or weekend).

I could see a scenario where VT gets the SEC invite along with Clemson, FSU and NCSU which leads UVa to reach out to the Big Ten as a package with UNC, ND and maybe GT.

That almost makes too much sense

I don't think that UVa will follow VT to the SEC, as they know they likely have the B1G in their pocket if everything goes down. But I could see us being a thorn in their side if it looks like we are getting left behind.

This is my school
This is home

This is the scenario I'm thinking too. Although NC State could be swapped with Miami. NC State makes sense to get into North Carolina but Miami has the football brand the SEC would want.

The SEC wants stands to be filled. Miami doesn't check that box.

True, but the old Orange Bowl was packed back in the day when they were good. Give them an SEC schedule and if they become a good team again, the pro sport crowd in Miami will jump onboard quickly.

The more I think about it the more I worry that Miami could be in the cold.

Their athletic department has historically refused to invest. They have a rabid fanbase, but it's small and cannot fill their current stadium and they don't travel. They are only a tv draw when they are good, and they haven't been that in 20 years. In basketball they are good right now but historically draw even worse than VT. Baseball is about all they have that isn't football. And they don't give you anything more in a broadcast footprint.

I think they would probably get in, but I don't think they'll be the first choice that they were in 2003. In terms of what they would bring to a conference in their current state they are probably closer to a Duke than a NCSU or VT.

This is my school
This is home

I think it's ironic that history may just come full circle. Most of the current ACC and SEC schools were in the SoCon which was the southern super conference in the first half of the last century. Nearly 100 years later, we may just have that again. History has a habit of repeating itself.

There are 11 current SEC schools that joined the SoCon during their first two years (1921-1922). If the SEC can pull Clemson, GT, UNCheat, NC State, uva, and VT from the ACC, then the only schools they would be missing from the 1922 lineup would be Maryland, Tulane, and Washington & Lee (currently D3).

Didn't Miami take ALOT of their covid hospital money and shovel it into athletics? I can't remember where I read it but it was a 9 figure amount

I would be shocked if these deals aren't already in motion.

ACC sucks at everything bro; I would be surprised if they are. I'm just ready to be hurt

I have some confidence in our leadership. I'm more concerned they hold out for a B1G offer that never happens because of where they will come from. When the ACC raid happens and our names aren't linked I'll be very concerned.

The ACC management sucking != every ACC AD sucking

Clemson, Miami and FSU have the ability of to be SEC bound, out of VT and many of the other ACC schools it makes me nervous to think of if we would be on the ideal side of things

I don't think the legislature will be upset if one goes B1G and one goes SEC. Both are comparable conferences, they got involved when Tech was getting hung out to dry in a dying Big East.

Not to mention we can always schedule the rivalry as an OOC game like it used to be.

Syracuse, BC and Louisville to the B1G? Pitt?

That graphic sums up the Pac-12's day perfectly.

College Football is being torn to shreds for anyone who cares anything about tradition.

By the late 2020's CFB will be a semi-pro pay-to-play league with 15-20 legitimate teams and maybe another 20 "also-rans." Everyone else will be left to decide what the value is in continuing a Program

I would expect many mid-majors to consider dropping to a lower level or to shutdown their programs.

The best part is the real people that are set to lose the most here are the 2โ˜† and 3โ˜† high-schoolers who will have less options. So that Jimbo Fisher and the ilk can justify their bloated salaries paying 17 year old 5โ˜† $100K+ only to pull their scholly after they don't turn out by Soph season.

So while, on some level, I hope VT finds a way to be one of the "in" Programs, I'm finding it harder and harder to justify being a fan of what CFB has become.

Even among the seemingly endless string of ineptitude and complete malfeasance, the complete lack of any presence in NIL and Conference money-grabbing takes the cake for the NCAA. The only good news is, as soon as the super conference is formed they will be utterly irrelevant.

Genuinely speaking, if we are left out in the cold, I'd be in complete support of deemphasizing athletics and just invest everything into being a top flight engineering and computer science school. And if we were going to still invest in athletics, shift funding from football to basketball going forward.

This is my school
This is home

I mean we already have a new agreement with Boeing (?) at the new DC/Alexandria campus to funnel masters students to them after graduation. Let's just go all in on research and academics and become Stanford east. Proximity to DC would make this a no brainer.

VB born, class of '14

I mean VT is in a great spot to funnel graduates to both DC and Raleigh, which itself is quickly becoming the Silicon Valley of the East Coast with Apple, Google, Meta, and Microsoft all having campuses either already here or announced within the last 2 years.

This is my school
This is home

Then we might have enough money to compete in football

That's about where I am at.

I really enjoyed Basketball and particularly Baseball (which I had rarely followed closely even when at VT) this season. I was much less invested in FB this year and the last few years of the previous staff became frankly tough to get enthusiastic about.

I feel like teams like VT are going to be "priced out of the market" as it were and I'm not sure I'm really that upset about it. At the end of the day, I'd rather be proud of my University than of my Football team. Becoming a degree-printing, teenager-bribing Football Factory isn't for me as a fan.

No thanks.

Football is king at VT. I'd rather be NDSU and play at the FCS level than become a nerd school. Basketball is cool in March, but football is king.

Twitter me

I want to be a badass nerd football school

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

Yea, that's why any recruit who gets an offer from Stanford should go.

Twitter me

Yeah I agree, it's so fucked, but in a twisted way a perfect reflection of society. The rich conferences get richer, the medium conferences get annihilated, the consumer is punished, and the small conferences will be non existent. All to squeeze just a few more precious drops of cash out of the cash cow.

It's ok though, if we continue follow the trends of the 1900s like we are so far in the 2000s, we'll have the next conference realignment during the late 30s depression era lol (*cries*)

VB born, class of '14

At what point do most of the schools realize they screwed themselves? Sure Maryland is in a better conference but what happens when the Big Ten decides to go to a 10 game schedule or just have the SEC, BigTen crossover so that you don't have the weak OOC games needed for bowls. Are fans going to like the super conference then?

Counting Oregon, Washington, USC, UCLA, the B1G is at 18. Give them Stanford, Cal, ND, Pitt, Ok St, Kansas.
SEC raids the ACC for us, UVA, UNC, Duke, Clem, FSU, Mia, GT and we have two 24 team superconferences.
3 eight team divisions in each conference. Top two teams in each division make the 16 team playoff, leaving each conference with 2 at large bids. 14 game schedule for everyone. You play your 7 division mates plus two teams from the other divisions within your conference. 2 cross conference games, 1 being based on the final results of the prior season, ie rematch of the national title, conference runner ups face off down the to the obvious 24v24 game between Duke and Rutgers. The other cross conference game can rotate so we're guaranteed to see notre dame once every quarter century, in honor of the ACC.

There's no glory in practice and lifting but without practice and lifting, there will be no glory!

One advantage for schools with such large conferences is that they might not have to worry about scheduling anymore, as even non-conference games will likely be set up by the conferences.

As much as it sucks to watch on TV, the cupcakes are going to take a financial beating when they aren't getting paid to be stomped by the big dogs.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

Something always just felt a little wrong/dirty about a school getting paid to have their butt kicked on tv. Just didn't seem like a good deal for anyone, paying fans, players, etc. If a school wants to scrimmage a smaller team in the off-season for practice I'm all for it, but no one should have to pay to see or endure that.

This would likely open up like a CFB preseason schedule. Little mental vomit to that idea but feels like the natural progression.

I mean 10 years ago those games were rarely on TV, 20 years ago they weren't at all. So blame EDPN and not the teams?

It's definitely cronism, but that doesn't (necessarily) mean it's a bad thing. A lot of ADs come up from small schools to big ones. Also, these games often fund a year of football for the smaller team (which is an expensive sport! 85+ person roster, uniforms, pads, cleats, travel, food, scholarships, board, etc).

Would it be better if these schools didn't have a team, and 85 less high school football players got scholarships?

Twitter me

This is the part it feels like no one is really looking at yet, or at least not deep enough. What's gonna happen to these small schools that have existed off the small streams of revenue they've been able to bring in up to this point? Now they will all be eliminated, we're not talking the sports, we're talking about the whole schools. This is gonna have a major trickle down effecting the bottom line on school tuition in the very near future. As much as I love sports, sports should not come before the ability for ALL schools to operate. It's madness.

Go for it

Good thing we won the ACC Basketball Tournament in the last year it counted for anything.

I am not sure what to do with my hands now

Another way to phrase this is . . .

"By the end of the ACC, Virginia Tech had become the top basketball school in the conference; likely to would have continued on an ACC regular season and conference championship winning streak like never seen before."

"Vick, dashing back . . . here he comes again . . . Electrifying . . . and have you ever seen anything like this?"

The ACC desperately needs to be proactive and get some of these PAC-12 and Big 12 remnants. They'll still be 3rd in the super conference pecking order, to be sure, but with the GOR preventing any of the current members from finding another lifeboat, they need to at least maintain their status as "the worst of the Power 5 (or whatever it will be called in the near future)" rather than being relegated to a completely lower level and out of the picture completely - which they absolutely will be if they just maintain status quo.

Obviously ND isn't joining - they need to do something to get schools like Oregon, Stanford, Baylor, OK St, etc. in the boat and fast. Maybe then that at least opens the door to re-negotiate with ESPN and get in the ballpark money-wise on the TV deal too.

Oregon and Washington are already reportedly headed to the B1G and I would be shocked if Stanford and ND aren't announced within the week. I think the ACC is dead in the water. They have been a day late and a dollar short since before inking our terrible TV deal.

If you feel the leather in your hand let it rip.

Taking pac12 leftovers to an already dying conference is not going to remedy anything though. Acc was way too late to the party in every aspect and all we can do now is hope we get asked to the big dance by the hot senior so we can break up with our abusive acc girlfriend

Yep.

There is no add the ACC can make that will even get us to 50% of what the SEC and Big Ten are looking to make with their next tv deals, and realistically, it would be a struggle to get us to 25% of what their deals will be.

The sooner everyone in the ACC realizes the party is over and the only way forward is to dissolve, the better. There will be schools left in the dark. Duke, Wake and BC probably want to be calling the Big East right now to make plans to join. Pitt, Syracuse, and Louisville should be legitimately worried.

The problem for us is that we are much closer to that Pitt, Syracuse, and Louisville grouping than we are to the schools who are sure things to be included (FSU, Clemson, UVa, UNC). We cannot afford to sit back and wait this one out. We need to be proactive and need to do what we can to be part of the first wave out.

This is my school
This is home

all we can do now is hope we get asked to the big dance by the hot senior so we can break up with our abusive acc girlfriend

2022 Season Challenge: Wrasslin'
Previous Challenges: Star Wars (2019), Marvel (2020), Batman (2021)

Not happening. IMO the ACC is toast. There is no way it can survive as a power conference in the new NIL landscape. They completely bungled the ACC Network which was ten years too late anyway, continually ignored the landscape and prioritized basketball over all else (adding Pitt and Cuse was expansion for expansion's sake and just cut the pie into two more slices), Swofford's malfeasance and self-dealing with the Raycom deal with his son put the conference even further behind in revenue, and the one-sided ND deal was a total joke. ND will now happily waltz to the Big Ten and there is nothing the ACC can do about it. They played the conference like a fiddle for years because since they never joined in football, the GoR doesn't apply to ND football.

I hope VT is on the phone with Clemson/FSU/NC State and working out an en bloc exit strategy to the SEC ASAP. The Big Ten is going to grab ND and Oregon/Washington next, and then they will come after ACC schools. It is time to be proactive and make a move now.

I hope VT is on the phone with Clemson/FSU/NC State and working out an en bloc exit strategy to the SEC ASAP. The Big Ten is going to grab ND and Oregon/Washington next, and then they will come after ACC schools. It is time to be proactive and make a move now.

This, but I'd start with UNC before moving to NCSU. We can be a strong contender for inclusion if we are bundled within a package deal like this, but would probably be weak if we tried it on our own. And if the SEC poached 3 or 4 ACC schools at once, you can pretty much kiss the Grant of Rights agreement goodbye.

In the end, Clemson, FSU, VT, NCSU and maybe Miami moving to the SEC while UNC, UVa, GT, and ND move to the Big Ten just seems inevitable. Throw in BC, Duke, and Wake to the Big East and it makes even more sense.

This is my school
This is home

Agreed, it has to be an en bloc exit so as to effectively dissolve the conference and GoR. UNC could be involved but I feel like they are stuck so far up their own tail and focused on their academic prestige that they would scoff at the SEC. Plus since they are politically tied to the ACC they will hang around and won't be on the first wave out IMO. I think the SEC will want to respond to the Big Ten moves and move first on the ACC.

Yeah, I dont see the SEC sitting tight if the B1G adds Oregon, Washington, (probably one other), and ND. That will make their media deal absolutely huge and the SEC will want to at least pick up North Carolina and Virginia as markets to respond. UNC loves running the ACC too much to go first, NC State makes sense. My main question is, how are all these games going to be televised. Is B1G network just going to have like 7 channels?

And say what you will, but the SEC is huge on rivalries, tradition, and pageantry. They would totally hype up the Enter Sandman experience and teams coming into Blacksburg. Plus the potential rivalry with Tennessee, have an SEC game day show from Bristol and showcase State Street and the city divided VA and TN. Hype up a game with us and A&M and showcase the Corps and military connection. Plus with VT and NC State you get another game I wouldn't mind playing annually and control the college sports market from the DMV all the way down to Charlotte. It makes too much sense. I honestly think we wouldn't get near the promotion and exposure in the Big Ten.

I agree an en bloc exit would be best as it could negate the GoR as you point out.

But (based upon the payouts that the SEC and BIG schools are going to get with their contracts) you can make a case for losing the GoR $$ and paying the penalty (roughly 50 million) and still come out even or ahead.

  • The ACC is distributing approx. 17 million a year to each school.
  • If you spread the $50 million penalty over 10 years (and properly account for the future value - I used 6% and 10 years) then the penalty would cost you approx. 9 million per year.
  • Total exit cost would be $26 million a year for 10 years.
  • That is certainly very expensive, however if your new conference payout is greater than $43 million per year ($17 + $26), then you would come out even to your current situation and would position yourself in a more stable position long term.

Therefore if you had an opportunity to exit on your own to either the SEC or the BIG you could make the argument that it would be a sound financial decision to pay the penalties. The risk of exiting early on your own may be that if you had waited you could have avoided paying the penalties. The risk of waiting on the en bloc exit is that you may not be included.

To be the man you gotta beat the man!

Just do the Maryland model

exit and then sue the conference in your home state to prevent payments from happening. Tie it up in the courts long enough the conference agrees to a lower payment just to finish the proceedings. Or, better yet, tie it up long enough that the conference folds and you never ever have to pay a cent.

This is my school
This is home

This x 1000

My wife takes the kids and leaves the house while I watch my Hokie games.........nuff said

Exactly what I was going to say. Just leave, and don't pay it. If 3-4 schools do that, there will not be an ACC left to pay.

"That's it guys. Let's get out of here. That cold drink's waitin' on us, let's go." - Mike Young after win no. 300.

So thinking through this...with the addition of Tex/OK, and USC/UCLA...both conferences would be at 16 schools, right? and then Big 10 adds Oregon and Washington, which seems likely, they will be at 18.

If we are going towards two conference, then both will likely expand.

Trying to figure out where VT ends up, I think if both extend to 20 teams, we are borderline safe. Assuming 20 per conference, I would put Stanford and Notre Dame in the Big 10, giving them 20. For the SEC to get to 20, I am assuming they would add FSU and Clemson first, then Miami...then it gets difficult...I would put it between us, unc, uva, NC State, just for the NC/VA markets. No idea what happens there. Would not feel safe if 20 is the magic number per conference.

If they both expand to 24...i would also put uva, unc, and Cal to the Big 10...not sure who would be last. GT?

For the SEC to get to 24...after adding FSU, clemson, miami to get to 19, i would think the last five in would be VT, NC State, and then some mix of Kansas, Baylor, OK State, Pitt, WVU, Louisville?

I feel like we need both conferences to expand to 24 for us to be safe...and some schools like GT, Pitt, Syracuse, OK State, Baylor, Kansas...are just screwed.

Very curious and nervous to see how this shakes out. It's almost like the Big 10 and SEC need to sit down together, and discuss how they want to split up their invites to ACC, Pac 12, and Big 12 teams...and get this shit over with.

I don't think we're safe at 20 schools in each conference. SEC is currently at 14 members and will be 16 with Texas and Oklahoma. You'd think they'd go for Clemson, Miami, and Florida State from the ACC (the only thing that I could think that could stop this from happening is that the other state schools (South Carolina and Florida) stopping them from entering or the SEC wanting to expand their footprint in new states). If they added Clemson, Miami, and Florida State, that leaves one school. VT, UNC, NCSU, UVA are the top 4 in my opinion. We would need to hope that the BIG pulls UNC and UVA (I think they're better fits in the BIG).

The BIG is at 16 with the additions of USC and UCLA. Rumor is that Washington and Oregon are making the move and they'll be at 18. I think Notre Dame finally joins a conference because they'll be dead if they don't. That leaves one other school to get to 20. Do they add UNC? Duke? UVA? VT?

I think conferences need to be at 22-24 for VT to be "safe" joining either the BIG TEN or the SEC

I'm still not convinced Miami is the lock for the SEC that many think. The only thing they can bring to a conference is their history, and that is a history that is riddled with an academic side that has routinely threatened to eliminate their sports programs, including football, for not being worth the investment. Even when they were at their peak, their school wanted to shut it down. They play their games in a stadium miles away from campus that maybe gets 30% filled on most game days. Unless the team is ranked in the Top 10, they don't travel. They generally don't care about any other sports unless they are actively good, and their market is already in the SEC footprint. And on top of this, they're a small private school with a legitimately small fanbase. Its not like the SEC is opening new doors by inviting them in. If anything, I think they could be the final team added once they're happy with how the rest of the conference is built out.

This is my school
This is home

At the end of the day, FSU is still one of the most profitable football programs, and bringing Miami with them sets up their annual rivalry games. Those aren't as big as they used to be, but they're still a bigger rivalry (without even considering UF-Miami) than any SEC team with most (all?) other options beyond FSU and Clemson.

2022 Season Challenge: Wrasslin'
Previous Challenges: Star Wars (2019), Marvel (2020), Batman (2021)

Schools clearly more valuable than us:
Oregon
Washington
Stanford
Clemson
FSU
ND

Schools in the same boat/comparable to us:
UNC
Miami
Pitt
Louisville
GT
NC St
UVA
OK St
Baylor
Texas Tech
Arizona
Arizona State
Iowa St
WVU
Utah
Probably a few more debatable as well I didn't even list

Gotta be honest I'm not sure I like our chances even at 24. It's easy to look and see there aren't many options CLEARLY better than us, but there aren't many options clearly worse either. At best we're on the bubble as one of the very last teams and gonna have to wait out a long period of uncertainty before one of the two conferences takes us. But we're stuck in a game of musical chairs with like 20 similar schools to us and need to hope somebody likes us enough to throw us a bone.

If you're talking about overall brands, UNC and UVa are above us and you really need to take off the homer shades if you can't see why.

Baylor and Oklahoma State have deep enough pockets to put themselves above us as well.

Arizona might be a hair higher as well.

This is my school
This is home

UVA and Arizona absolutely are not. UNC only is because of basketball. Homer shades are off, I think you're over correcting

And I'm not even saying they're not above us in the pecking order, they very well may be. But they're not so clearly above us to put them in a totally different tier, it's not like comparing us to Michigan or Texas or something. That's what scares me - we're in a tier with like 20+ other similar schools and there definitely aren't that many seats available. I think we all like to think we're one of the more desirable schools in that tier but who really knows? It's just as easy for me to picture 10 of those schools getting picked ahead of us and us on the outside looking in as it is for me to think we'll be on the lifeboat to the SEC with Clemson, FSU, and Miami Monday morning

The UNC brand and NC market would be #1 pull behind ND for either SEC or Big10. UVA really only fits with Big10 and I think SEC would take VT and/or NCST before UVA.

Baylor and OkSt - only make since if going to Big10 b/c I don't think UT, A&M and Oklahoma would really want them in the SEC and in terms of TV revenue, they don't really add much.

Arizona and Colorado could be interesting though as they are both in growing media markets (but so is VA and NC).

But, I think what everyone is missing in all of this is that neither the SEC or Big 10 are going to add teams just for the sake of adding teams. They will only add if they think the $/school in media money will go up if school X, Y, Z are added. Adding LA market makes since and cents. I don't know the calculus for other schools but ESPN/FOX probably has those #s and will determine the haves and the have nots over the next few years.

The ACC royally screwed themselves when they went after small private schools in large media markets but didn't capitalize on TV rights when they had the chance.

I agree with your list for the most part. It is going to be a rough ride for us.

Whit better be working his butt off to get us into the SEC. Barring that, he needs to think about how cutthroat he wants to be in trying to form a new conference with those peer schools.

No matter what, it feels like college sports is dead. It was headed there but yesterday was a double tap.

No matter what, it feels like college sports is dead. It was headed there but yesterday was a double tap.

interestingly it is this very sentiment that the overwhelming majority of fans seem to be conveying. If this is the case then, if VT were not invited to either of the two super conferences, it seems Tech's best bet would be working with all the other schools to try and define what it would mean to bring back what college sports used to be. Albeit with educated improvements in NIL, Transfers, Eligibility etc.

Agree except for Washington, they're not that big of a brand. Stanford and Oregon are probably a better duo for the Big 10 than including Washington

It's clear the B1G knows that demographically, it is dying a slow death and needs to expand to growing areas.

The Univ of Washington is in Seattle (one of the hottest, growing urban areas in the country), has a top 10-ish research program, and a high quality athletic program. It fits the B1G profile perfectly.

I would rather stay in the ACC and miss out on the huge payday while still having a soul intact. The alternative is joining the SEC or Big Ten and becoming another Mississippi State, Nebraska or Maryland with no hopes of finishing above .500 every year. Either way these schools just destroyed their sports for greed.

You probably don't want to see what happens to the university as a whole if we get left out in the cold with an athletic department that sees their revenue streams run dry.

The reason our school has taken off academically like it did since the 90s is because the football team became nationally relevant, which tripled our applicant pool overnight. If that relevance goes away, and we're no longer affiliated with other major universities, then we have some very, very tough decisions ahead.

This is my school
This is home

Yep. We have to make a move to the BIG TEN or SEC. Our athletics will suffer, the school, will suffer, and so will the economy of Blacksburg and the NRV.

I'm sure there's countless similar stories to my own experience: 17 y/o me needed to stay in state and wanted good football from my prospective school. That was it. So VT was the easy choice.

"The Big Ten is always using excuses to cancel games with us. First Wisconsin. Then Wisconsin. After that, Wisconsin. The subsequent cancellation with Wisconsin comes to mind too. Now Penn State. What's next? Wisconsin?" -HorseOnATreadmill

So...uh...if we join the B1G, does that mean Wisconsin will finally have to play us?

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

We'd end up on the schedule but then Wisconsin would come down with COVID or something

In a 24 team league they would probably have us on the schedule for like 2040 or something, then would be able to back out due to the next big conference realignment happening before then.

Pfft they'd probably invite us to jump with them and then cancel the acceptance party

"The Big Ten is always using excuses to cancel games with us. First Wisconsin. Then Wisconsin. After that, Wisconsin. The subsequent cancellation with Wisconsin comes to mind too. Now Penn State. What's next? Wisconsin?" -HorseOnATreadmill

UVA and UNCheat having a better shot at the super conferences makes me want to puke!

I don't buy that UVA is more attractive than VT. They're just a snootier version of Rutgers in a smaller TV market.

Twitter me

UNCheat is also just carried by bandwagon basketball and Jordan fans. The actual alumni and school affiliated fans are pathetic.

The "brand" is the shear amount of "fans" with no ties whatsoever to the school who just like watching them on the TV. You can tell them apart for saying things like: "Man that Jordan team was bad." Or when they're good: "UNC that's my team I've always f'd with them." Cowboy's/Lakers of the east coast. But it's exclusively for basketball. That hype/fan support will never extend to the football team.

One thing I am starting to see today are a lot of verified Twitter accounts reiterating how good of a fit VT would be to the SEC and how the SEC should jump to take us if the opportunity arises

This is my school
This is home

The UNC & Duke one only makes sense if USCe and/or UF blocks their instate schools. UNC and UVA bolting to the B1G makes way more sense.

This is great to see because it means backroom talks are happening. Or at least being floated. There are no coincidences. Getting VT out into yhe first tranche of "advertising" to the SEC is the type of foresight we absolutely need

VB born, class of '14

Man, I don't see VT moving without UVA (or vice versa). Godfrey even mentioned this in passing on yesterday's SZD (patreon). Doesn't mean it can't/won't happen, and I don't pretend to have any understanding of Virginia politics, but it feels like UVA and VT will be forever linked, for better, or for worse.

Hope I'm wrong.

Twitter me

I think as long as both have a seat somewhere, even in different leagues, that won't be as critical this time. But if one gets a seat and the other doesn't, things could get political quickly. I personally feel both will have a seat at a table, just maybe different tables.

Idk, I could see them working together to move apart (ie one to B1G and the other to SEC) and establishing a yearly OOC matchup.

I don't disagree with the premise (if both schools are good, politicians will be good), I just don't see how it would work. Not sure how VT could negotiate to get into the SEC, while simaltaneiously negotiating to get UVA into the B10?

Twitter me

I think we're going to eventually end up in a similar regional set-up. It'll just be under one/two "Super Leagues", and their divisions, instead of five/six conferences. The overall number might be smaller depending on how big each conference wants to go (20 each vs 30 each), but as long we end up in one of them, I think it'll be ok.

This scenario could work better for the current landscape of college football. Divisions within the conferences but the whole conference negotiates their TV deal. (seemingly ESPN/SEC and Fox/BIG) This gives more even distribution but likely a higher total for each school on average than now. I could be completely wrong but its worth a hope.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

This is kind of what I'm thinking as well:

  • Play 4-8 games within your region/pod/division
  • Play 3-5 other conference games
  • Play 1-2 noncon games
  • Playoff expands, giving auto bids to top 4 conference champions, and 5-8 at large bids
  • Bowl season remains a big (enough) deal (even if they're just exhibitions) because it's where most of the OOC games happen

I don't love this, but it seems (a) plausible, and (b) like it could preserve some regionality of the sport.

Restating my thoughts (and those of others)... the top 40-50 teams split into 2 super conferences, and regular season was almost exclusive played within those conferences, with a regional focus, and the only time you play a team from the other super conference is in a bowl game.

Honestly, that doesn't sound that bad...

Twitter me

I actually super like this. I think it's much better than what currently exists. Especially if the SEC and B1G can manage basically the same media deals. It would at least bring back some semblance of parity since 3 of the current conferences' teams wouldn't be getting 10s of millions less per year than their peers.

It could absolutely be an improvement. Which is why I'm not ready to accept the doom and gloom that others are ranting about.

Let's wait and see what happens. It won't be the college football we grew up with. Doesn't mean it won't be just as fun.

Twitter me

ND is in a great spot. They are the lifeline for the ACC, a trophy for the B10, and will be fine if they can't reach a deal with either conference.

That said, I think if ND goes to the B10, then the ACC starts to (officially) fall apart.

Twitter me

So USC was the bait to see if they can get ND to jump in first. I would expect an ND decision relatively soon, and after that with Oregon and Washington already in the queue, the SEC is probably already working on a countermove.

If I'm ND I'm telling the Big Ten that I'd really really like to have Stanford in the conference too (just to keep the numbers even), and if they wanted to add Oregon and Washington to keep the numbers even evener then that'd be up to them.

If ND gets a conference with Michigan, Michigan State, USCw, and Stanford, then they'll just make sure they get enough scheduling leeway to play Navy OOC every year and they should be happy.

Throw in the fact that they'd get to play their in-state rivals Indiana and Purdue regularly, and toss NWern into the mix as another opponent with some amount of tradition, then ND might only need to rotate Miami, BC, Pitt, and GT in one of their other OOC slots. Still room for a random OOC opponent here and there too.

But I guess in the timeline I'm hoping for, Pitt and BC end up in the Big Ten too. With Syracuse. And what I dunno Kansas maybe? Or they take Mizzou since they're Illinois main rival and they deserve to have to have Mizzou after all this chicanery.

How is Oregon in the talks since the Big Ten only takes AAU schools? I thought they were an academic focus conference/s

Oregon is an AAU member.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Now I have no doubts we could get membership.

VT and Oregon are both R1. Surprisingly, the state or Virginia has many R1 institutions.

Go Hokies!

Read that list completely wrong.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Oregon has a very good academic reputation and the medical school (OHSU) has a substantial research program.

Am I the only one that really wouldn't be heartbroken if VT is in a different conference than uva (again).

"Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I am not yet completely sure about the universe.โ€ -Einstein

The only "story" that ever comes out of that game is when we lose or when we have to win to get into a bowl.

2022 Season Challenge: Wrasslin'
Previous Challenges: Star Wars (2019), Marvel (2020), Batman (2021)

I mean it's funny our dominance over them, I do enjoy that, but there's always Vandy

I think we should join the Big Ten so that we can be in the East Division, we can call it the Big East

Related:

Twitter me

WOW! That's gonna kill Oregon and Washingtons chances of moving to a bigger conference

Go for it

Someone trying to copy the "political strong arm VT into the ACC" play, but misread the fact that UVA was already in a safe place?

We shoulda gone SEC when we had the chance...

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

His decision was made after a phone call with longtime Virginia Tech assistant coach Bud Foster. All Foster told him was, "We win. They don't."

Thinking about those SoCal boys from USC and UCLA playing in Minnesota in November.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Big Ten standing pat right now on Oregon and Washington. The ACC can remain competitive now by adding these teams:

Oregon
Washington
Stanford
Cal
ASU
Arizona
Oklahoma State
Texas Tech
Baylor
Notre Dame

Get to 24 and that's better than what the Big 10 has and competitive with the SEC, albeit with way fewer big brands than the SEC.

I do think there's a lot of overreactions to the last 24 hours and that there is a way for the ACC to salvage itself, but they have to be quick and decisive. There's zero path to them surpassing the SEC or B1G but I think there is a path to them remaining in the ballpark with them as a "power conference" if they add some combination of these teams quickly and renegotiate with ESPN to at least have a competitive tv contract - the second part obviously being of critical importance. They need a new tv deal to remain a viable option to current members and the only way to do that is to get some of these other big schools from the conferences that have already been raided.

I wouldn't bet on it but I don't think it's as outside the realm of possibility as most people seem to. If they manage to get Oregon, Washington, and a few others while the B1G is slow-playing them trying to get ND, it could drastically change the ACC's outlook overnight.

I agree and I also agree there's probably minimal chance they actually do it.

I think if you can try to package Oregon Washington Stanford and Cal with Oklahoma State maybe you can get all parties to agree and pitch the new conference/renegotiated TV deal and lack of exit fee to Notre Dame.

ASU, Arizona, OkSt, Baylor, TexTech don't move the needle market wise. That's not staying competitive, that's just becoming the best of the rest behind the SEC and B1G.

I get what you're saying but it's not all about TV markets. However in that case Baylor does move the needle because it's close enoigh to bring Dallas into play and has a huge following in Texas. Texas Tech is also a statewide brand. Arizona State is the 2nd largest university in the country, enormous alumni pool there. ASU won't go without Zona but they're above the average in the ACC too honestly. Ok State is a half step below being a national brand in football.

Also that immediately makes us #1 basketball conference. I'd say add Kansas Gonzaga and Nova too for hoops to get to 27. Basketball isn't near as lucrative as football but you're talking an almost full monopolization of the sport there.

It is about TV markets. It's precisely that. Why do you think USC and UCLA are moving?

Better markets combined mean more money per school with a good rights deal, and B1G/SEC have amazing rights deals. ACC has a decent market with a laughable TV rights deal. There's no comparison and the schools you listed wouldn't help enough.

Baylor and Texas Tech combined have less weight than either UT or A&M. They do fine in Texas but not much beyond. If you truly plan to stay competitive and not be in either of the two lead conferences then neither of these schools are helping you to do so.

B1G and SEC are gobbling up the best markets. Only way to be competitive now is to join one of them.

This is correct. Small market schools will be excluded. VT is in decent shape in this regard. All the teams that previously got passed over in realignment (think Pitt, Louisville, Syracuse, WVU) will once again struggle to find a landing spot.

It's Time to go to Work

it's not all about TV markets.

Really, it is. It's all about $$$, of course, but that money comes from the absurd TV deals, which are based on advertising sales, which are based on TV markets.

It's about TV, but it's not about the markets, it's about the brands. Like Tuscaloosa is not a great TV market, but they draw a heck of a lot of eyeballs. Cal/Stanford are in the SF/Silicon Valley TV market, but they don't draw the viewers to carry that market.

Yeah exactly what I was getting at. And this isn't static either, brands can grow or lose value over time. Additions don't even have to about each individual team. A good conference could be greater than the sum of its parts if there are interesting matchups AND they are promoted by a network with wide reach who wants to improve the teams' national brands.

It isn't so much about one team "moving the needle" as long as the group of teams added are interesting to watch and everyone in the league has the potential to grow from that interest.

It's about markets. TV rights deals are based on them. Bama's attractiveness is not limited to Tuscaloosa. They are a national brand that gets air time in every market across the country. National exposure is their market. All blue bloods have this quality and is why Notre Dame commands a TV rights deal on their own.

Once you get past the blue bloods with national coverage its about expanding strong footholds into regional markets. VT is a regional market that is attractive but they aren't the only one.

Agreed, it's expansion for expansion's sake. Also when has the ACC ever been quick and decisive moving on anything? The ACC conference call with the commissioner and ADs/presidents today apparently was Phillips saying we are all together in this and then implicitly threatening everyone with the GoR as the glue that will hold them together. You know a ton of schools are looking for the first avenue out ASAP. Staying in the ACC will be more of the status quo from Greensboro.

Look just because the ACC commissioner is legally bound to contact Dean Smith through a Ouija board on the 3rd full moon after the equinox to determine the ACCs path forward doesn't mean they're slow.

This would be a terrible idea. Its not about having as big of a conference as the Big10 / SEC. Its not even about having as good of teams on the field. Its about marketing brands and keeping up with the $$$$. It won't take long before those with $$$, even mediocre teams like UMD or Kentucky surpass everyone else. The $$$ differential is too wide. And it will impact every sport - eventually, probably within a decade, members of the two conferences with huge TV $$$ are going to be able to pay top recruits in basketball and olympic sports >>> NIL $$$ than anyone else can offer. They can also pay a premium for the best coaches.

Adding other mediocre brands will just further dilute the pie. It will do nothing to close the gap.

The conference is already diluted. Every school I've mentioned with maybe the exception of Baylor and Arizona are above the mean of the ACC. All of the would improve the average of the conference, money, brand and football wise

As I understand it, this is not an option for the ACC because adding schools would undo the grant of rights.

If correct, this puts the ACC smack dab between a rock and a hard place.

If true, there's the sneaky escape move. The big football schools ram through adding a refugee from elsewhere, void the GoR, and depart the next day.

I'm going ahead and running wild with the idea of VT, Clemson, FSU, and NC State to the SEC. VT and NC State give the SEC two programs that are pretty strong right now across the board in sports, and VT and NCSU have a very strong football culture. VT might be rebuilding now but historically a strong football power. Gives SEC control and access of media markets from DMV down to Charlotte and expands the footprint into VA and NC. Clemson and FSU give you two elite football schools with existing rivals in the SEC. Assuming they go to 20, set up 5 team pods as follows:

SEC North - VT, Tennessee, Kentucky, Vandy, NC State
SEC East - Georgia, Florida, Clemson, South Carolina, FSU
SEC Central/South - Bama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss St, LSU
SEC West - Texas, Oklahoma, A&M, Missouri, Arkansas

This takes care of most all rivalries. Could have one designated permanent rival from another pod. Maybe go to 10 conference games and play another entire pod in one season. One out of conference game and another tune up against FCS or what have you for 12.

If SEC goes to 24 - add Miami, WVU, Okie St, and Baylor/Texas Tech. A pod of VT, WVU, Tennessee, Kentucky, Vandy, and NC State seems pretty sweet.

VT, UVA, NC, NC State, Clemson, GT, Miami, FSU - SEC
BC, Pitt, Louisville, Syracuse, ND - BIG

From the insider that runs the Maryland 247 board. "Eventually" doing some heavy lifting there but my take away is don't buy into the talk we saw yesterday that the conference was done "for now". I'd expect more movement within the year, certainly within 2.

Waiting on the preemptive strike from the SEC. They're not going to wait around on what the Big Ten is doing.

I don't see what their options are for a big splash right now. They have to wait and see what ND does.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

A splash to the Big Ten is a historical program like USC or ND. Which certainly is big. But the SEC will look at viewership numbers of strong programs in the southern footprint and see the eyeballs they can attract where college football is most popular. USC is big but LA is a pro sports town. A block of ACC schools would draw a ton of eyeballs, particularly in the south.

LA is a pro sportsLakers and Dodgers only town.

FTFY. Living in LA, you would hardly know that the Rams, Chargers, Kings and Clippers play here. The Angels and Ducks have small yet devoted fanbase, so they have a presence.

SC is stronger brand than all those other pro-franchises, tbh. But still barely a blip as compared to the Lakers and Dodgers.

๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ

Until they come and get FSU, Miami, and Clemson. Let's just be honest those are 3 we know are gonna be going. I would be shocked if it's not to the SEC and announced within 3months

Go for it

Remember when the big news this week was 3-5-5? /s

"3-5-5" = code for 355 days until we are in the SEC

"Vick, dashing back . . . here he comes again . . . Electrifying . . . and have you ever seen anything like this?"

If we're going to go 7-5, 8-4 every year as a ceiling anyway, we might as well do it against SEC competition. The home schedule would become instantly more attractive. No more BC, Syracuse, NC, Duke home slates, with an FCS sprinkled in.

"That's it guys. Let's get out of here. That cold drink's waitin' on us, let's go." - Mike Young after win no. 300.

Outside of Vandy and Missouri what SEC schools could we beat right now?

the 4 OOC schools that have an average ranking in the 140s so that we get bowl eligibility. Also I'm feeling Auburn.

EDIT: fixing my fat fingers

the correct answer is: who cares.

ask this again after 3 years of SEC money and Pry transformation.

If the SEC expands, I don't see them grabbing schools in states where they already have teams. Historically, UGa, UF, SCar, and UK have vehemently blocked any attempts to even talk about bringing GT, FSU, Miami, Clemson, and Louisville into the fold. It's about bringing in TV markets and none of those teams will do that for them, except maybe Clemson if you consider them to be a national" brand. You can argue that they brought in Texas despite having ATM, but Texas is too big of a whale to turn down. The ACC schools aren't even close to that level.

They don't need OkSt or any of the other TX teams, now. There's really nothing out west worth expanding for.

ND joining the SEC just sounds like something that their alumni and admins would turn their noses up at. ND is going to eventually end up in the B1G.

Honestly, the SEC has no need to expand at this time, UNLESS the rumors of Oregon + ND to the B1G are true. If so, then maybe they move just to "respond".

In that case, the logical progression would be to pick up teams in NC and VA because of the available media markets. Nothing they can do will be the splash of ND, but this would be the next best available option.

-UVa brings academics and non-football sports, but this expansion is about football and TVs, not snobbery, wine, and cheese. I could easily see UVa happily going to the B1G in the next round of expansion.
-VT makes sense if they consider us to bring in the NoVa and DC markets. Question is, does the Gov and state legislature allow VT to move without UVa being guaranteed a safe landing spot.
-The real question is what they do in NC. UNC brings basketball, but do they look at UNC football as an up and coming program going by money and current recruiting? They have the Jordan brand and are a "national" brand, so maybe they get an invite. Maybe UNC is happy to be a big fish in a small pond, but they would have to be really high on their own supply to turn down the SEC and their boatloads of $. Duke is out (bad football and with Coach K gone, how long are they nationally relevant?). WF-lol nope. NCSt kind of seems like a cultural fit, but also seems more like the consolation prize if they don't get UNC.

So, maybe they tell SCar to shut up and bring in Clemson and UNC. Or maybe the UGa/UF/UK/SCar voting block sticks together and they go for UNC + VT.

Just my opinions.

"Sooner or later, if man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our heart with tolerance."
-Stan Lee

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

A&M wasn't for markets it was for recruiting. Texas is for the markets

I think a lot of those "rules" or "criteria" applied when conference expansion was still keeping the conferences under 15 teams. What's going on now is a different kind of expansion, because it's also consolidation.

I don't think TV markets are as big a deal now as they were in the past. Pretty much all games are broadcast nationally, whether they're on broadcast, cable, or streaming. I don't think ABC has done a true regional broadcast since Beamer was coach, and they even stopped doing the reverse mirrors. (But even with the reverse mirrors, the game was still going national, it just depended on whether you watched ABC or one of the ESPN channels.)

So, there are three levels to broadcasting rights:

  • Tier 1 rights: National broadcasted games. Think SEC on CBS, ESPN/ABC night games, etc
  • Tier 2 rights: regional broadcasts - these are you Fox Sports South, your Comcast sportsnet, sometimes ESPN 2, etc
  • Tier 3 rights: everything else - ACCN, SECN, ppv in some cases, etc

TV markets matter for tier 2 and 3 rights. If the B10 plays games against USC, then regional sports networks on the west coast will be interested in broadcasting their games. If UCLA is in the B10, (more) people on the west coast will call their cable provider and demand the B10N. This will result in more household subscribing to the B10N which means more money.

Tl:dr; TV markets don't matter as much As they use to, but they still matter.

Twitter me

The problem I have with the tiers is that I haven't been able to see any clear explanation about what goes in what tier. Everything I find is either nebulous, ten years old, or both.

As for RSNs, do any other P5 conferences other than the ACC have RSN deals? Again, I don't think location or market matters much there, because if you look at the list of RSNs carrying the ACC games, it's basically one RSN in each market (unless there's a significant conflict).

so, first of all, ESPN2 often counts as a tier 2 right, because the broadcast will vary based on your location.

Again, I don't think location or market matters much there, because if you look at the list of RSNs carrying the ACC games, it's basically one RSN in each market (unless there's a significant conflict).

To be honest, I don't understand how RSN viewership corresponds to conference revenue.

However, conference networks are where TV markets REALLY matter. It doesn't really matter where the game can be watched; it matters how many households have that channel. The ACC makes money based on how many household subscribe to the network, regardless of how many people watch it. Most cable providers in California do NOT provide the ACCN. If we had a California school in the ACC, then there would be pressure for cable providers in California to carry the ACCN. Millions more subscribers (even if it's only 1000 more viewers per game) means millions of more dollars for the ACC.

Anyways, to answer your question:

As for RSNs, do any other P5 conferences other than the ACC have RSN deals?

B12 has RSNs involved in Tier 2 rights, and the individual schools each are responsible for for their respective tier 3 rights. The P12 'network' basically consists on 3 RSNs that the conference owns (this model has failed drastically - shocker). The B10 uses RSNs (source - see piece titled 'Where else can I access Big 10 Network streaming?'). I cannot find any evidence suggesting that the SEC broadcasts on RSNs, but anecdotally, I believe I've watched SEC games on Fox Sports South.

Twitter me

NIL won't be the death of the sport everyone has claimed it would be. It's conference realignment that will be the end of college football. Take away the local rivalries and the thrill and fun of regional even not always rivalry competition what's the point even? If you're not in a super conference your teams games will mean fuck all as just like the pac12 and the big 12 have shown us you won't stand a chance at the playoff if things keep progressing as they are now.

West Virginia is a perfect example they used to be nuts and big now who cares? They never play pitt, vt, Penn State anyone local and they have to travel ages to go to games in Texas and Oklahoma for what?

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

20+ teams in a national conference is too many for scheduling. So they'll do divisions (or pods, or pick your term). In such a structure, you'll play your division teams annually and other conference teams less often.

So there's still a path for a return of geographic affiliation. A bunch of 8-team geographic rivals starts to look a lot like old conferences, just labeled as divisions with an extra layer of overhead (SEC and B1G).

(Edited for clearer wording.)

My worry is by the time they figure this out all the teams who have been shuffled and moved to non regional conferences it will be too late. Traveling to games is fun but who the hell has the time and money to fly back and forth across the country to follow usc UCLA everytime they play on the east coast or play in Ohio? They're making the excuse of staying home and streaming the game even easier even for die hards who travel to every game. If VT flipped and joined the Pac 12 for example who's traveling every football game on the west coast? VT has amazing traveling support but I'd vouch that our turnout would dwindle in a big way. The neglect by the NCAA to do absolutely anything in a whiny spoiled spat of we don't want to share revenue with the athletes but now that you're making us we will just turn our backs and ignore the shit show going on behind the scenes involving the TV deals and conferences shows they don't care and to me it will be the undoing of all that's made CFB so good.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

I would be at every away game if we went PAC12. I've seen enough shitty games at Duke that I dont care about going there anymore. I've never seen us play down to inferior competition in corvallis.

Hate to say it but honestly the government needs to step in and mandate regional conferences. Unregulated growth is going to ruin the sport to make a few guys rich at the expense of fans and student athletes.

You know who I go to when I really want a problem solved? Politicians. /s

It's Time to go to Work

Unregulated growth is going to ruin the sport to make a few guys rich at the expense of fans and student athletes.

This already happened.

So now it's all about greed.

VT will eventually get invited to the new format, just because it will want to expand in order to get more money.

SI isn't the big national media source it used to be. It's name is basically used by individual fan sites. This is just some Arkansas fan boy site. SEC isn't taking teams because of some basketball rivalry I can assure you.

Blogspam at its finest. They probably meant Virginia Tech when they put Virginia on the list. Not the first time. :D

2022 Season Challenge: Wrasslin'
Previous Challenges: Star Wars (2019), Marvel (2020), Batman (2021)

What an Asshat!

Completely fact-free analysis based on nothing.

Absolutely designed to waste clicks on the internet. Yes, they're out there. Try not to click on those.

SI basically went bankrupt about 10 years ago and pivoted to a fan driven blogosphere focused on video uploads. They should not be taken seriously anymore.

That said, any expansion plan that doesn't have both VT and UVa in either the B1G or SEC (same with UNC and NCSU) seriously misunderstands why the expansion would take place.

The SEC isn't adding Duke over getting both the NC and Va markets. They'll add NCState over UNC before giving in to any demands like that from UNC.

This is my school
This is home

This reads like fanfiction

Well, fiction, anyway.

Big 12 said its going to die another day!

If you feel the leather in your hand let it rip.

What a plot twist. The PAC tries to gut the BIGXII, but E$PN spoils it so they can push Texas and OU to the SEC. Then B1G steals the PAC's flagship schools and, lo and behold, who swoops in to pick the carcass? One-foot-in-the-grave BIGXII

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

The Pac 10 is getting big dogged.

ACC should rebrand as the "All Coasts Conference," and snag a couple PAC-12 teams.

But don't stop there. Go for ALL coasts. Glasgow. Hamburg. Tirana. Colombo. Guangzhou. Imagine all the new media markets to be ignored in simultaneously!

Should we play one game in London each year as well?

"Vick, dashing back . . . here he comes again . . . Electrifying . . . and have you ever seen anything like this?"

But what about "the alliance" guys! We nodded yes at each other in agreement!

Another reason against the Big Ten IMO. They initiated all this alliance stuff and calmly stabbed the Pac 12 in the back when it suited. I figured the ACC would get the screwing in that deal but man they didn't waste much time. It was a stalling tactic to buy the Big Ten some time. They were all in on this academic first nonsense until money started talking. But they still pretend this is about something other than cash. Don't give me that level of pretentiousness.

So far, it's all still the same schools in the alliance.

That's just sad

Exactly

well they had to do something and they choose stupid. (And that should read PAC6 "the leftovers". )

Why would ESPN care about a chumpionship game in Vegas and pay more for viewers to watch a game that means nothing except to the fans of those two teams. dumb as shit.

Whit, make a move, because this ship is swiss cheese.

Totally agree. That move looks desperate.

I get that the ACC is in a tough spot and all, but yeah this will not move the needle. And I agree that Whit (and Sands) need to be working hard at securing VT's spot at the table (which I am sure they are). Our future cannot be left in the hands of the ACC leadership.

To be the man you gotta beat the man!

Why would ESPN care about a chumpionship game [...] that means nothing except to the fans of those two teams.

It's basically just adding another bowl game. Which might, be sadly, be the best bowl tie-in the ACC would have.

Total desperation by the ACC. Saw this tweet this evening as well.

Please open up that tv agreement and void that GoR so we can get the show on the road with realignment.

I mean the ACCN doesn't show actual ACC games. They might as well show Pac12 games.

We put the K in Kwality

At what point do a group of ACC schools get together and say we didn't sign up for this crap and challenge the GoR in court? Showing Pac-12 games and working on some joint "championship" game without USC/UCLA and Oregon/Washington with one foot out the door? This is just becoming a clown show.

I mean, the acc is in a pretty desperate position, so it makes sense to be evaluating all options, including this.

I don't think it's optimal, but I'm not sure what else the conference can do - the product isn't good enough to demand more dollars.

Sure, VT could find some way out, but there's a lot of uncertainty there. Unless we have an offer in hand from the SEC/B10, I don't see another move on the board for VT.

Twitter me

This would have been great a year ago as a goal of the Alliance but now it is the ACC dragging the PAC along and us praying to get out of our shit TV deal.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

Maybe call it the False Rose Bowl.

What a tepid and desperate move.

The Ruse Bowl.

๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ

The Rose Bowel

the Goatse Bowl, in other words

This is my school
This is home

I think this is actually a decent idea - if the ACCN was rebranded as the 'coastal college sports network' and held all tier 3 rights for the P12 and ACC - that seems like it could be valuable. That's a shit ton of content, that would be in demand in a lot of the most populous areas in the country.

But after reading the article, I don't get the point...

The concept, believed to have been proposed by the ACC, is seen as a way for the conferences' common rightsholder, ESPN, to increase the value of their current media rights contracts.

It's not likely this proposal would have much impact considering ESPN has cost certainty with the ACC in a contract that lasts through 2036.

So ESPN makes more money, but this wouldn't have much impact for the ACC? But the ACC proposed this? What? I'm confused.

Twitter me

The conference (read: UNC and Duke) is getting very worried that everything will fall apart soon and they are desperate to keep it from collapsing because the second the ACC crumbles, their ability to control everything goes out the window.

Its part of the reason why I think UNC might be last to jump. They're going to ride the ACC as long as they can before they bolt, because they own the ACC.

This is my school
This is home

The Rose Bowl: The Grandaddy of Them All
A Rose By Any Other Name Bowl: Just As Sweet

Man, listened to the TSL podcast on realignment. Basically little old VT will never be good enough to compete at the highest level, so we might as well prepare ourselves to be in some second tier league playing Cincinnati and WVU. Totally undervalue VT and what we could bring to a conference like the SEC. Why this "we are just little old VT and totally not relevant" mindset is so prevalent in segments of our fanbase is beyond me. The numbers on viewership and value certainly paint a different picture. Building the massive Innovation Campus and having the CEO of Boeing on your BOV doesn't scream little old VT.

We are only 15 years removed from finishing third in the BCS, 22 years from playing for a national title. We deserve a spot at the table with the big dogs, even if we have been down for the last decade.

Same mindset that was trying to convince us we needed to stick with Fuente because football sucked before Beamer

This is my school
This is home

If it makes you feel better, Stephen Godfrey believes (as in his opinion, not that he has sources) that IF the SEC expands, VT and UNC are the two obvious choices.

Everyone is just spitballing at this point. No one (except the SEC and the potential target schools) are running an actual detailed analysis.

Edit: therapy words

Twitter me

Godfrey knows his shit and is a very interesting Twitter follow. Makes me feel a bit better since he agrees with my conclusion upthread about VT and UNC being the two obvious choices.

"Sooner or later, if man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our heart with tolerance."
-Stan Lee

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

Preliminary talks have been put out with both conferences, but getting either conference to accept at the moment isn't going to happen. VT still in wait and see mode, pretty much what everyone thought.

Go for it

One of my favorite movies growing up was the 1976 film "Midway." There's a line in it where a buddy tells Charlton Heston's character, "The wait-and-seers will bust your ass every time."

I feel like that may wind up becoming applicable here.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

That's a lot of green that just flew away.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

You almost have to wonder if there are grounds for the other schools to sue USC and UCLA for damages lost over leaving like this.

This is my school
This is home

Exactly. There's real money involved in these relationships.

don't have to wonder. Schools sign agreements to conferences not each other, so there is no avenue.

UCLA is the second most important team in that conference... yeah okay buddy sure

I would say it is. UCLA has a fan base all over the western states, has a rich alumni base and their bball team has likely an even larger footprint than football. Only argument is Oregon but their home market is nothing compared to UCLAs.

(double post)