The destruction of the soul of college football is upon us

Yeah, I know that sounds overly dramatic, but look at this quote from the Big Ten after yesterday's move to rip USC and UCLA away from the Pac 12...

"What good is the Rose Bowl if the whole point is the Playoff"

And there it is. What is the point of the Rose Bowl, the "Granddaddy of them All", the most sacred of all the college bowl games, if the goal of college football is to make the playoff. A playoff designed to make everyone involved a whole heck of a lot of money.

So who cares what we have to destroy in the process, as long as the elites secure their bag. The Bowl system? Major universities in depressed markets like Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Syracuse, and maybe even Oklahoma State and Wazzu? Who cares, the rich are getting richer, sucks to be those schools and bowls, am I right?

The next 20 years of college athletics are going to be drastically different than the previous 20, let alone the previous 150. My worry is that its going to be much worse. More corporate, more cookie cutter, and devoid of the heart and soul that used to make it good. Because now, its all about the money. Sure, it might have been about the money before, but its an arms race now, and nobody cares who dies along the way.

Virginia Tech may very well end up as one of the schools chosen to take part in this new world. We might not. No matter what happens, I do know that the sport that I have grown to love over the 20 years its been since I was a student (and even further back than that when you consider my childhood) is dead and will never come back. And it all happened because some rich schmucks needed more money in their pockets during a time when tuition is exponentially increasing to the point of being legitimately unaffordable except to the wealthy.

And that's just sad.

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Comments

CFB has been inching this way for quite a while, but NIL was the final straw that broke the camel's back.

ESPN has been instrumental in tearing apart conferences as well.

For the fans, the non Blue-Chip Recruits, and every team that gets left out of one of the Superconferences, everything going forward will be inexorably worse.

But you have to look at the bright side, with conferences like the MAC likely to fold up, ESPN will now be able to increase its AD Revenue with the scintillating Rutgers-UCLA matchup on Tuesday nights. Talk about a natural rivalry.

Personally, I'm looking forward to the eventual cross-over Big~10 / SEC challenge where we get to see Vandy take on Rutgers

NIL was the final straw that broke the camel's back.

I can't disagree more with this. Paying players has been a thing forever. You think Tyrod's parents bought him that escalade he would drive around campus? You think David Wilson refurbed a car himself? Come on now.

There are two things that have damaged (for lack of a better term) the sport more than anything else:

  1. NCAA v. Board of Regents (1984) - supreme court ruled that the NCAA couldn't control TV revenue for individual teams. This (as I understand it, as a non-lawyer) is the case that allows individual schools to collect and use as much money as they want - This is why Nick Saban can have 35 Analysts. This is why Clemson can have a water slide in their locker rooms. This is why schools that can afford it can use multiple private jets to recruit
  2. TV Money - goes hand-in-hand with number. If there's not restrictions on how teams can use the money they make, then the arms race is/was inevitable.

NIL, transfer portal, etc... these are mearly byproducts of a supreme court case and corporate interest in the sport.

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So now that you have these NIL "Collectives" which are largely made up of the same people who formulate the Athletic Booster base....where are their donations going?

Are they doubling their donations every year...or dividing the donation? If they split it, that means the School's General Fund gets less money every year. They need to make that money up somewhere.

Bobby Carpenter (former OSU LB) was on ESPN Radio yesterday stating that several of the Columbus Area Boosters that he is still close with told him that this was exactly what they were doing---dividing their Donations up 50/50 between NIL and the Athletic Dept.

So while, yes it is the TV Money that is at stake here, the necessity to accumulate as many TV Dollars as possible is heavily influenced by the effect NIL has had on Athletic Dept. budgets. I think we are all aware that the FB and BB Programs fund most of the rest of the Department. There was the tidbit in the news recently that OSU estimated their NIL budget just to keep their Roster together was +$13million annually---that's pretty unrealistic to expect Boosters to cough up in addition to their typical annual giving.

So now that you have these NIL "Collectives" which are largely made up of the same people who formulate the Athletic Booster base....where are their donations going?

As well as 'former' bagmen.

But, to your point, collectives are taking away money from other donations. That's a problem for Whit to solve.

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One of the other threads included a post where a B1G school reportedly told boosters that they had enough money from TV, and the boosters ought to redirect their donations to NIL.

If true, it's not that NIL is forcing dependence on TV. Rather TV money is enabling larger NIL slush funds.

It's this. This is the time period, some 30 to 40 years ago, it became a business. You could make an argument it was before that, but this is when it starts to become clearer. You start seeing more conferences come together, less independents, conference moves/mergers, etc. It was slow and steady at first so you could look the other way and still believe the romanticized version of college sports if you wanted to (and the schools were more than happy to sell the public on this notion too), but once media grew exponentially, so did the profits and thus the changes happened faster. Then no one could ignore it and you see it for what its been for a long time now, a business. Nothing really changed all that much. The lights just got turned on

I'm gonna lay a lion's share of the blame on the feet of the NCAA.

NCAA mission statement is "to govern competition in a fair, safe, equitable and sportsmanlike manner, and to integrate intercollegiate athletics into higher education so that the educational experience of the student-athlete is paramount." The main concern as shown in this statement is to ensure the athletes benefit from both their talents and gain a college education.

(Narrator: "they didnt.")

I'm more pessimistic about the past/current state of affairs than others are. For example, I don't think that NIL is making a difference, because players were getting just as much money under the table before. I also don't think that NIL is making much of a difference in the haves vs have nots because those distinctions have already been made.

I'm not as pessimistic about the future as you are. This comment is without a doubt true:

I do know that the sport that I have grown to love over the 20 years its been since I was a student (and even further back than that when you consider my childhood) is dead and will never come back.

However, it doesn't necessarily mean the new version of college football will be worse.

Why don't I think this? Well, I believe that, for college football, the sum of the teams is greater than each individual team. Part of the reason that everyone watches OSU is because they might lose to VT or Purdue. And if they do, it's possible that every game that VT plays could impact OSU's post season trajectory. This interconnectivity brings value (yes, revenue) to the sport.

It's why I think promotion & relegation will be considered - all of a sudden you have more games that matter, and we get back to every regular season game having a purpose.

Do I think VT will ever compete (not necessarily play in, but compete) for a College Football Top Tier (whatever that means) National Championship again? Maybe. Can I watch VT focus on playing for a conference title, a regional title, promotion, etc, and still enjoy the sport? I think I could, because I've known for years now that VT isn't competing nationally any more. And I'm at peace with that.

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It's why I think promotion & relegation will be considered - all of a sudden you have more games that matter, and we get back to every regular season game having a purpose.

This is a pipe dream.

These schools aren't signing up for their sweetheart deals just to have the possibility of being kicked out down for bad play. They're locking in their future and securing their long term bag. And there will be absolutely no support from anyone involved in either the SEC or B1G to implement relegation going forward because they don't want to deal with the possibility of being left out.

Hell, even the countries that have sports where promotion/relegation exist have the people who run the top teams actively trying to secure their own bag while fucking over the rest. The European SuperLeague announcement did happen, and the only reason it didn't move forward was because the centuries of tradition there was for P/R. That tradition has never existed in North America and never will. Either you're a part of it, or you're out.

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This is home

I'm not niave enough to think promo/relegation is a likely outcome, but I do think it will be proposed and considered

These schools aren't signing up for their sweetheart deals just to have the possibility of being kicked out down for bad play. They're locking in their future and securing their long term bag. And there will be absolutely no support from anyone involved in either the SEC or B1G to implement relegation going forward because they don't want to deal with the possibility of being left out.

This is the piece I disagree with:

  1. I think the money could work so you still make bag even if relegated
  2. As I said above, part of the value of OSU is that your success is indirectly linked to the success of everyone you play.

CFB will fail if it becomes the NFL junior. A league of just bluebloods won't succeed. I think the people in charge are aware of this.

Edit: an additional counterpoint to the quote above
Promotion/Relegation could be a good way for an Alabama to kick out a Vandy. Vandy doesn't want to leave the SEC, nor would they have a landing spot if they got pushed out. But, assuming Bama's priority is money, a game against VT is better than a game against Vandy. The Bama's, the OSU's, etc could support regulation as a way to ensure they get the best matchups each year.

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I think you underestimate the desire of Americans to watch football. I can easily see a future where a collection of 32-64 teams becomes the NFL minor leagues, becomes even more successful, and eventually gets itself bundled with the NFL TV rights. What we are seeing is just another step in that exact direction.

I think you underestimate the desire of Americans to watch football.

I probably am. But I don't think cfb is an inelastic product for these people. It is for university alumni, donors, and the sickos community.

If the nfl takes over what is now college football, then all bets are off.

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I think you overestimate the desire of Americans to watch football.

See: The USFL championship game played this past weekend. Quick: Who can (without googleing) name the teams in the game and who won.

Birmingham Stallions beat the Philadelphia Stars.

I'm here for the memes, I just stay for the football.

Dang, I watched some in between commercials and all I know is Skip Holtz was a coach by seeing him on the sidelines.

There's no way it would be more successful in gross numbers, it would just further concentrate the biggest money teams in the same conference, giving the appearance of more success. Overall viewership would go down, as it has for the last decade

it's not dead, just very different

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Is the bowl system something worth saving? It's just a glorified marketing ploy, same as the playoff is a ploy to raise TV revenues. At least we get a more legit champion out of it.

I think so. I love bowl season. More than March Madness. Especially if we have a bunch of super leagues that only play each other - then bowl season will be great again, even if it's just an exhibition (which it was always meant to be).

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I'm glad they are finally admitting it. That's the first step. And let's be honest, the B1G isn't clean in all of this, stripping away members from other conferences previously. Nebraska or Iowa St in the Rose, against Utah? Come on man.

Let's just make 4 16-team regional conferences, have an 8 team playoff and be done with it. Let the money do what it's already doing without constraining it by some sort of antiquated thought of 1962 conferences.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

iowa state is not in the B1G

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Yet...

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Instead of the seeming inevitable push towards two 20 team mega-conferences, I would like to see just a new subdivision of Div 1 football.

Have FBS, I-A, and include Bama, LSU, OSU, Clemson, etc...the perennial top 10 squads, with their own Natty that they all vie for

revamped FCS, or I-AA the rest of us that are getting left in the dust by the elites, and with the landscape of today's college football, no real way to claw back into the picture

and a new subdivision for I-AAA, the current FCS teams.

All would be welcome to schedule each other for OOC play, all would have their own natty's.

I guess the money just isn't there, but I think it would create a lot of new interest if teams of the non-elites had an equal playing field amongst each other and let them guys branch off

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Right now there are 32 teams comprising the two 'super conferences'. But nearly 100% of fans are lamenting what is happening right now. I can't imagine the pressure AD's, like Whit, must be under especially if BIG or SEC come calling. However, the numbers lie with the teams that are not a part of the super conferences.

The main thing I do not want to see is for Virginia Tech to be part of some third or fourth piecemealed 'not-quite-super' conference that forever chases the shadow of the P2. If this is gonna happen and Virginia Tech are not invited to the table my hope is that them and the rest of the division 1 schools figure out something that makes more sense and pays homage to what we all love about college football.

First would be to band together with all the other conferences to form some sort legitimate governing body of athletic directors that would establish smart, logical, and relatively simple rules for NIL, eligibility, transfers etc.

Second would be to establish logical regional conferences and expand the schedule while eliminating conference championships. This saves schools a ton of money having to travel all across the nation to be a part of some super conference no matter how good the money is.

Third would be to re-establish the prestige of bowl games and stop handing out participation prizes for 6-6 teams.

Bottom line here is if you aren't a part of the P2 don't chase it, try to tap into the power of the fans and what they actually (at least seemingly based on twitter and reddit) want to see.

brb...need to go find someone to remove this tinfoil hat that is stuck on my head.

I just don't know that I can watch us play in a farm league and be excited about. It just destroys continuity and the idea of program building. It's kinda already happening now I know but it just all feels super shitty right now

Then why do watch college football? It's just a farm league for the nfl. The on field product is not nearly as good.

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I find the NFL to be steaming dog shit personally. I know the on field product is probably better but the playoff lock packing in the rest of the season losing to a 10 loss Houston doesn't really do anything to their season whereas a single game can derail seasons in CFB

Our local teams being any of Washington, Pittsburgh, Philly, or Carolina all make me want to gag and I have no ties to any other team. CFB used to feel more intimate and personal but thats been degrading slowly over the past 10-15 years too I guess

It like the NBA vs CBB. The product *is* better but because it is so close to perfect, you lose the randomness and that makes it less fun.

I'm likely in a big minority here, but I always loved college ball. Never gave a crap about professional football. To quote Jerry Seinfeld, "go clothes! Beat the other clothes!" Outside of geography (maybe... but Steelers fans are everywhere), there's no real compelling reason to choose any particular NFL team.

College ball was more intimate, more relatable. It wasn't just for contracts and money. There was school pride and the joy of rivalry matchups. It may be farm team NFL for the players, but that didn't mean it had to be packaged that way for the fans. Media has made sure of that though.

'89 Hokie alum, former staff, former faculty. Living in Jawja - a rescue Dawg married to a Fauxkie. Navigating the curious spaces between the ACC and the SEC since 2009.

I can't help but notice that your post is in past tense.

I still think there will be rivalries, school pride, and uniqueness across teams in CFB - still significantly more than in the NFL.

Not to pick on you specifically, but when I see something that says 'I like that these player were playing for pride/fun' it kinda says to me 'I like not knowing how the sausage is made'... which is fine, but admitting that means that you're also acknowledging that the product hasn't change

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...when I see something that says 'I like that these player were playing for pride/fun' it kinda says to me 'I like not knowing how the sausage is made'...

Yeah, that's similar to the employer that is paying an employee well below market rates while saying, "BuT wE'rE a FaMiLy!"

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Here's the difference - no consumer says "I want to spend my money at company X because they don't pay their employees and instead treat them like family."

In Kavanaugh's opinion of the Alston case, he said something to the effect of 'your argument that your product is popular because you avoid pay labor a market rate is bullshit' - Justice Kavanaugh's and my beliefs overlap very little, but I think he nailed here.

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Yes no consumer says I want to shop here because they skimp on paying their employees. They shop because it's cheaper, or they think it is.

Walmart, from a pure business perspective, is a failed model. They only can operate how they do becuase 1) most of their employees are on government assistance, and 2) they are big enough to bully companies to make stuff for the price point they want (even if the company cheaps out on the Walmart model). If any of those two changes then Walmart is no longer the cheapest and would lose business where ever there was any other options.

Gas tends to be the same way, I see tons of people lined up for 30+ minutes to get costco gas because it's cheap. Nevermind that ever vehicle I owned ran like shit on it. My MPG would tank running g they much corn in the mixture, but its cheap, even though you have to fill up more often which cost you more in the long run.

But all of that stuff fungible to most people. Sports aren't quite like that, but college sports are cheaper to spectate than the pros. ESPN doesn't have to pay as much for the SEC as they do for one game a week in the NFL.

If you want to take your kid to a game then GT is cheaper than seeing the Falcons, or UCLA cheaper than Rams, or it's cheaper for me to drive a couple hours to Charlottesville to see football than it would be to go to a Washington DC football game. If college athletes were employees then cost of attendance would probably go up. It would be very hard to argue that donations are tax deductible (though I think that changed anyways). The schools would want larger TV deals to cover the athletes cost. And maybe that cause the whole thing to crumble, or maybe VT never goes to Miami or BC due to costs and it becomes regional. But it would probably change.

So while most people don't like something becuase employees are mistreated, they unknowingly like employee mistreatment because of what it enables.

I sit here typing this in a nike shirt that was probably made using child labor.

The main thing I do not want to see is for Virginia Tech to be part of some third or fourth piecemealed 'not-quite-super' conference that forever chases the shadow of the P2.

Why not? That's what you've been watching for the last 20 years.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

hey-Oh!

but seriously, I don't think anybody here has been happy with the ACC for at least the last decade or so. VT deserves a better league. The ACC has been criminally mismanaged since our arrival. Thankful to get out of the Big East before it collapsed but the ACC is on the verge of collapse now too and VT needs to find greener pastures quick.

Onward and upward

If in 2002 you asked show VT move to the ACC, it would have been the dumbest question ever asked. Why would VT leave a superior football and basketball league for the ACC. When you throw in Miami and another big east school yet to be named then yes we made the right choice.

Out other sports greatly benefited from the ACC, but its been a one hit wonder football league almost its entire life and a two hit wonder basketball league. It's still both of those today.

Out other sports greatly benefited from the ACC, but its been a one hit wonder football league almost its entire life and a two hit wonder basketball league. It's still both of those today.

What specifically do you mean by a one-hit wonder in this context? I'm not sure if you mean Clemson is the only team to have sustained success, or that FSU/Clemson only have one season of success at a time, or something else.

2022 Season Challenge: Wrasslin'
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I mean, yeah.... VT was good, then FSU was briefly good, then Clemson became really good, and now.... meh

There hasn't been a time since 2004 where you had 2 schools in the ACC hitting their stride at the same time. Maybe one year of FSU vs Clemson, but that's about it. And no, I don't count ND.

This is my school
This is home

TBF, Clemson will be back hard and fast. They had back to back top 10 classes. If they can replace the coaching is remain to be seen but I would'nt definitely count them as dead.

I personally think the jury is out on that. Venables was the DC since '12 and Elliot the primary OC since '15 and Dabo lost them both in the same year. There are plenty of instances *cough* Miami/Texas/USC *cough* of schools having great recruiting classes but not being able to string things together. Let's see how Dabo does this year before saying they'll be back in a jif.

before saying they'll be back in a jif

2022 Season Challenge: Wrasslin'
Previous Challenges: Star Wars (2019), Marvel (2020), Batman (2021)

before saying they'll be back in a jif gif

FTFY.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Yes this is what I mean, I can only think of the one year of FSU and Clemson both being good. Also for me it starts with FSU being dominant, then VT...

EDIT: yes yes I can't type.

I'm sorry (and I'm sure I'll get downvoted to hell for this), but this is one I see frequently on these boards.

It's "dominant" (which is an adjective), not "dominate" (which is a verb).

Don't know why this one bothers me over all the other misspellings, but it does.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

2022 Season Challenge: Wrasslin'
Previous Challenges: Star Wars (2019), Marvel (2020), Batman (2021)

I didn't, because giphy is blocked at work.

/sigh

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

I very rarely get serious, but I'm going to be for a moment here: we can't disregard the fact that at the end of the day, college football has for a long time been about telling 18-21 year olds that they cannot be paid a cent for something that a 22 year old version of themselves would be paid millions for. Simultaneously, the people not paying those players were making as much money as they possibly could from that product.

Yes, there's a soul to college football that made the sport special, but so long as the product on the field was a way to get NFL-caliber players to play for free for three years, it was always going to end up here where the players found a way to get paid and the ones paying them found a way to make even more money. The magic of college football relies on the players _not_ being professional football players, and that line has been blurry for decades.

2022 Season Challenge: Wrasslin'
Previous Challenges: Star Wars (2019), Marvel (2020), Batman (2021)

If college football had a soul, it sold that a long time ago for a chick-fil-a bag full of cash

< rant >

So I live in Big Ten country. If there were ever a more insufferable set of fans of any conference, it has to be the Big Ten. Yes, SEC fans are pretty high and might at times, but when you're the best then its hard to argue much.

But Big Ten fans, and notably the holier-than-thou PSU fans I'm drowning in up here, have always been the conference that focused on 'tradition'. PSU would never have a Thursday night game because of the alumni and their traditions. They wouldn't accept a non-AAU school because of their high academic standards and their focus on the 'student' part of student-athlete [*cough* Then shouldn't you kick Nebraska out? *cough*]. The Rose Bowl was the most important institution in college football because of the tradition, and they would never give it up. Everything else had to be scheduled around it - bowls, playoff games - what have you.

But then came the Big Ten Network and the traditions were still intact. Then Maryland and Rutgers joined and the tradition was revealed to be a whole lot less about your long-standing rivals and your commitment to academics and instead it's all about your modern tradition of revenue maximization.

And now, you've added two teams that aren't traditional rivals of anyone in your conference and you're not in continguous states anymore and you've likely destroyed the Pac12 along with the likelihood that their traditions will end and you've "nuked the Rose Bowl".

For money.

I guess I'm not surprised it's come to this. And, in the end, I guess I'm not surprised that the conference that is on the forefront of the destruction is the one that always claimed that tradition mattered.

< /rant >

I wonder if said holier-than-thou PSU (Big Ten) fans are good with all of this.

After the last scandal, and even more obviously from where I stand, their motivated reasoning will help them justify anything and everything.

I am just old enough to not care about this. I do know one thing. When I was a kid on NYD I knew that I would be watching the Sugar, Rose and finally the Orange Bowl in the evening. I think the Cotton was in the mix somewhere but never seemed to be as important. It hasn't been that way for awhile but it is something that I will never see again. Also, I was concerned that Christmas was over and we'd hav e to be going back to school soon!

Even when you get skunked; fishing never lets you down. 🎣

So dramatic. If VT were benefiting from these changes everyone would be all for them. This is a microcosm of this generation at large. Insert any social institution. When X does what I want, this is evidence it is working properly. When X doesn't do what I want it is evidence the system is broken and must be torn down.

Fans: the BCS is terrible. We want a playoff!
Fans: The players should be paid

CFB: adds playoff and allows players to be paid

Fans: CFB has been ruined. The sport I grew up watching is dead.

Clearly the sport is undergoing change. No one knows exactly what it will look like in its next iteration. I dont think VTs standing will be materially different in the next version than the present one.

I think two super-conferences centered around the $EC and B1G are inevitable. The three remaining P5 conferences are in a fight for relevance and have nearly lost. The ACC is intact, at the moment, because of the 2035 GOR. The only way the three remaining conferences have of surviving is to form a third super-conference centered around the ACC and B12, or the B12 and PAC teams before they get cherry-picked even further. Then, a new 24-30 team super-conference could negotiate a revised TV contract with the Mouse or Fox for something more comparable to the two developing super-conferences.

Will this ever happen? Likely not. It would would require vision and leadership, boatloads of money and political arm-twisting to accomplish. The most likely scenario in 5 years is two supers of 24-30 teams and the ACC, Big12 and PAC becoming filled with G5 teams poached from below. There would in effect be two P5 conferences and then everyone else at the G5 level. I hope VT winds up in one of the two supers, but I will cheer for my Hokies no matter what level they play. Ut Prosim. Go Hokies!

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former Naval Aviator, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

If it's going to be 2 conferences and everyone else, SEC and BIG kick out bottom feeders and invite in the remaining top programs to make 20 team conferences. With 10 game conference schedules, each team meets every other year. Every game will be a marquee matchup worth watching.

Create an 8 team playoff by have 2 conference championship games in each conference. Have the 4 winners seed the current playoff. For bowl games, the remaining elite bowls will match SEC vs BIG.

For non power conference teams, the goal is to become strong enough to eventually take a spot from a then bottom feeder.

Fuck the super conferences. There, I've said it. Fuck them. The "blue bloods" can take their programs and create their NFL Jr. league where money is king and schools have literally sold their academic souls for a chance of being the national champion. I'd much rather those teams splinter and the other 100 schools in the FBS take a deep breath, step back from the edge, and create a new football division. One where salaries are capped, the number of assistants limited, and where the focus is on the game vs. TV deals. One where athletes can be compensated FAIRLY for their NIL by the University, not because some boosters got together to throw millions at them.

This division uses a similar model as the FCS, with 8 regional conferences of 12 teams each competing against each other and then a 16 team playoff at the end of the season to decide the national champion. VT ends up in a conference with Maryland, UVA, WVU, Marshall, NC State, Pitt, Louisville, App State, UNC, Duke, and Kentucky.

That's my pipe dream. I'm SOOO tired of having the playoff forced down our throats because ESPN has their own agenda. I'm tired of rankings for the next year being released the week after the playoff is over and then those rankings being analyzed over and over and then become completely irrelevant 3 weeks in because half of the teams suck.

I'm tired of rankings for the next year being released the week after the playoff is over and then those rankings being analyzed over and over and then become completely irrelevant 3 weeks in because half of the teams suck.

I hear you, but that's a topic for a different episode of "What Grinds My Gears". That has nothing to do with the structure of college football, and everything with these outlets needing to generate content on a quicker than daily basis. Same thing happens at all levels of all sports, and it would be happening whether CFB had the BCS, a 16 team playoff, or even the old pre-BCS days when there was no true national championship unless you lucked into #1 vs #2 in the same bowl game.

Maryland and Kentucky have seats at the biggest table, so they wouldn't apply to this.

I'e been thinking a lot about why I love CFB, and I realize that it's the personality that every school has.

  • It's Texas Tech fans throwing tortillas, Wazzu's obession with fireball, Enter Sandman at VT, Jump Around at Wiscy, Tailgating at the Grove at Ole Miss.
  • It's the Harvy Updykes, the T. Boone Pickens, the antics from Gundy and Leach, the petty beefing between Saban and Jimbo, the shade that Lane throws on twitter. It's Jim Harbaugh climbing trees and Les Miles eating grass.
  • It's everything that Warren St. John writes about in Rammer Jammer (the best book out there about CFB fandom IMO).
  • It's Iowa State blocking OkSt's chance at a national championship. It's 4-9 Pitt keeping WVU out of a championship. It's being able to not just recognize, but celebrate that the best game of the season may have no impact whatsoever on the championship race.
  • It's wacky plays like this, this, and these.
  • It's the sweet, sweet, Schadenfreude that we revel in every weekend

I don't care if players get paid.
I don't care if players can transfer.
I don't care if the sports breaks in to 2-3 15-30 team super-leagues.
I don't care if the playoff includes the whole nation or not.
I don't care if my team has no chance at winning a national championship - I'll still root for the Hokies every weekend, because I know they could ruin someone's season.
I care about the sickos game of the week
I care about keeping College Football weird.

I think it's possible (though far from guarenteeded) that the new format - whatever that looks like - can maintain the weirdness. Ideally we want college football to be regionally focused, and nationally relevant. Nationwide Super leagues with regional divisions could get us close to that.

I'm anxious, and fear for the worst (especially for VT), but I'm willing to wait and see what happens next.

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I think there's 2 parts to CFB.

1) There's way too many schools and it is so hard to accurately judge players that the play is just subpar. This creates a ton of randomness.

2) Unless youre from Ohio or Alabama, you and your school fandom chose each other. I am a Hokie not just because my parents were but because I am also an Alum, if I went to UMD, Id be a Maryland fan instead. I am a Ravens fan because my dad Is from Baltimore. There is just something intimate about college sports. Taking my wife to a game for the first time and showing her the campus, its just special.

I don't think a superconference can actually eliminate those 2 things.

100% agree

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It definitely could ruin the amount of teams. I don't want CFB to be 40-50 team NFL lite. It should be at least 100 and then if any other schools can compete and establish a consistent crowd of 20k+, the more the merrier

40-50 is not NFL lite, especially with how the filter works. Go look at 50th best recruiting. Imagine if the Jaguars had at best, a shot in the dark on a player instead of bonafide top shelf talent. That is college to the NFL difference.

When VT goes through a major slump, I don't have to second guess my fandom or hide my gear, because VT is a part of me. I have an actual connection to the place, and it's more than just football.

But when the Redskins Football Team Commanders suck for 30 straight years, I start reconsidering some life choices.

There is a reason every hat I have is tech and the shirt I am currently wearing. Even if our athletics are bad, Tech is me. Even if we had no athletics department at all, I'd still have that hat. College sports are just different, even if they get gross.

Well constructed...leg this man to plaid!

There's no glory in practice and lifting but without practice and lifting, there will be no glory!

I would like to add:
the Fulmer Cup
Horns down
Harvard vs Yale .... vs MIT
OU offensive staff (lead by Leach) leaving a fake game plan for Texas to find
Adding a T on the field at Lane North

Yes, yes, yes. Horns Down is everything I love about college football.

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Best part was when Herman tried to get the Horns Down to be a penalty or something against the other teams. Made a big deal about it, so of course you just saw more of it. What a cry baby.

That worked. It is a penalty and even bigger in other sports.

I don't care about opinions, circumstances, relevancy, today vs yesterday, I just know that right now and the preceding couple years I have cared less about this sport as it has become what it is today. Also, I am not going to "donate" to sports anymore and will instead to the institution and its academics as it probably should have been the whole time. This all feels like a big waste of time now.

Eh, just give me a 64 team playoff and ditch all the bowls

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

ACC is going to be left out in the cold if this comes to fruition.

Left in the dark until the B1G and SEC strip it for parts

This is my school
This is home

If the B1G and the SEC do not expand further then yes I agree. If the B1G and SEC do continue to expand and Oregon and Washington are off the table and into the BIG 12, then that makes the odds of a landing spot for VT higher.

To be the man you gotta beat the man!

Won't be a big deal. The BIG20 won't demand much more revenue per school than the ACC does.

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I suspect that you are right. ESPN and FOX have their cash cows locked up and won't have any motivation to drop equivalent dollars on a twenty team conference that won't reach the top ten often. Likewise, the ACC cannot poach upwards and therefore can only expand by stealing from G5 programs that won't move the money needle. I doubt that the ACC even tries expansion as the Tobacco Road bigwigs have proven over the past 4 decades that basketball is their priority and football isn't worth serious conference investment. Adding the Bug East teams was supposed to be the permanent solution, but that experiment has obviously failed to produce the needed revenue.

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former Naval Aviator, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

We had sustained success for roughly the first decade of membership, but Miami was supposed to be the mover and shaker and has been mediocre for 2 decades. BC was for the mythical Boston market. Syracuse was supposed to be for the New York market (apparently idiots didn't realize the distance between Utica and NYC).

Nah it will be fun as shit and have those brands poised to grow and get more of the national spotlight.

Honestly a 3rd power conference that's fun and can compete with the other 2 could save college football from the super league catastrophe at least for a while.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Sounds like the same kind of agreement me and my college roommate would make, where we would "share" a case of beer for the weekend, only for him to drink 21 of them by Saturday morning.

Were we roommates?

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

So a championship after the other championships with the goal of knocking the losing team out of the running for the 4 spot playoff?

The ACC will go down in a blaze, they (the Carolina bureaucrats) are headstrong, and will try to preserve their legacy for their sacred basketball. Tech must jump ship as soon as asked, and fight litigation later.

Let's get rid of the rose bowl. its time. Been too good for too long.

I'm trying really hard to understand this instead of just nuking it. Care to elaborate at all?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I'm guessing it's bitter sarcasm at the situation?

I get the meme but really, we should nuke Pasadena. Just a baby one to let LA know we mean business and also a great send off to the Rose Bowl. No idea where UCLA will play but they get B1G money now, theyll figure it out.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

What did Flo ever do to you?

I'm here for the memes, I just stay for the football.

Can't tell if serious or sarcastic, but as long as there's a playoff, the rose bowl isn't that relevant. I know it's tied to the tournament of the roses and whatnot, but it feels like this should be the kickoff to season, not the ending.

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the original pre-edit comment made it plainly clear that dc's position is that the rose bowl becoming obsolete is a problem -- a byproduct of "fixing" a system that wasn't really broken

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

The guy is the founder and editor in chief of "Swim Swam News" with just under 6k followers...so maybe take it with a grain of salt - personally, I think he is just looking for clicks

Edit:

Edit Again:

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

UVA boards already running with it. Somehow they think the SEC honestly cares about rowing and tennis championships. Does the SEC even sponsor those sports? Lol

Also SwimSwamNews is my number 1 source for major breaking news.

Yeah not seeing a world where the SEC wants them. B1G though, different story.

"ESPN is trying to void their TV deal with the ACC" That there tells you this is nonsense. ESPN doesn't want to void the deal, they are making out great with our shit TV deal.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

I genuinely don't get why the SEC would be interest in UVA. They're not a culture fit, they don't have a big fan base, and they don't prioritize football. Can you imagine UVA fans when LSU folks take over Charlottesville?

If we've learned anything from past realignments, it's that no one - media members, conference affiliates, university presidents, literally no one - knows exactly what is happening. The situation is so fluid.

IMO nothing will change unless ND joins a conference. I think UNC is the other big piece left out there, but I don't think they are anyone's next move, just because of the Grant of Rights. I think the ACC is stuck together for now.

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Um...a basketball and a CWS championships in the last 10 years?

I just can't see the SEC targeting basketball schools not named North Carolina.

I mean, maybe they think the conference is too challenging and they need some weaker teams to lighten the schedule?

Look, I'm speculating just as much as anyone right now, but a UVA/B10 and VT/SEC pairings both feel so natural. I can't imagine the opposite being true. Unless Sands is pushing to B10 school, and SEC is getting second choice of the Virginia Schools? I dunno, just seems bizarre to me.

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::Taking off Maroon Glasses::
Championships raise the profile of the conference.
UVA has them, VT does not.

::Cleaning Maroon Glasses::
::Putting back on Maroon Glasses::
UVA is awful

Championships raise the profile of the conference.

I feel like 10 wins per year in football + competitive sports raises the profile more than .500 at best in football and championships elsewhere.

Again, maybe I'm wrong, but the data we have seen shows that football drives the bus, and football is at least ~80% of a conference's TV revenue.

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We don't raise the profile of the conference in football at the moment. I'd love to get to a point where we do, but as of right this second, we don't.

Counterpoint - we still have incredibly strong viewership, ticket sales, and brand value at a 30 year low point in our football program. Imagine what a few years of SEC cash and Pry could do to make those numbers even better once the on-field product bounces back.

Not rebutting your point, but CFB is very much a "what have you done for me lately" sport. I fear your assertion will not be recognized by the greater CFB world

But CFB is also very much a history and tradition sport, in that history and tradition can be used as a data point for long term viability. That's the key metric, here, and it's not easy to define, but "what have you done for me lately" doesn't always move the needle, if that recent data doesn't point to a long-term trend (e.g. Pitt winning the ACC in 2021).

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

we are seeing this in front of our own eyes. Its not about that. Its about $$$. If VT brings a positive impact on the B1G or SECs take at the end of the day, then they would be a positive investment. Same can be said for any school - if there is a financial benefit to adding an institution to the league then its going to get a serious look.

Exactly. It's not about matchups, except to the extent that compelling matchups drive a sufficient amount of new revenue. The only exception I see is as a defensive move; e.g., I could see the SEC adding a bunch of ACC schools solely to keep the B1G out of their back yard.

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."
--unknown

Related:

The SEC/B1G split seems backwards to me, but who knows

Who is this guy? A quick scan of his Twitter feed makes me question the veracity of this tweet. I mean haven't we figured out that W. Keith Friedman is a fake account and he's claiming it's a good one?

"That move was slicker than a peeled onion in a bowl of snot." -Mike Burnop

His earlier posts imply that he has UVA insider knowledge, but it could certainly be BS (which is a safe default assumption for any realignment news that doesn't come from the schools/conferences)

Yea, I kinda think we need to try to limit shares to tweets from verified accounts in these threads. It doesn't necessarily mean that everything will be true/accurate, but it does cut out a lot of noise.

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Sure, but the original post in this thread is a verified account and this is just corroborating evidence that came out before the post from the verified account. It's certainly questionable on its own but it does make me raise an eyebrow combined with the original tweet.

Dont trust a thing from this guy (Friedman). Its some burner account trying to stir the pot. The guy was outed (by this board in fact... might have been Alum) for 1) being completely unassociated with any real source, and 2) stealing his headshot from some news anchor who had no knowledge his persona was being leveraged for someone else's personal gain.

Agreed that the split seems backwards, but I would rather VT join the B1G then the SEC.

Jim Howington is another Walter Keith Friedman

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

This just fundamentally doesn't make a lick of sense. The 2 AAU schools are targeting the SEC and the non AAU school is targeting the B1G? Absolute nonsense.

This is hilarious. Why would UNC form an alliance with UVA? The Hoos bring them nothing.

The funniest outcome here would still be UVA getting left in the cold while everyone else gets a major invite. Then left with the option of either staying in a bad ACC with expansion teams like ECU and Charlotte, or joining the Big 12 with WVU and religious schools like Baylor TCU BYU

UVA and UNC is the oldest rivalry in the south. But that really weak fir a reason to have an alliance.

Did you say oldest or weakest?

The Virginia legislature would never allow UVA & VT to be in separate conferences unless they're on essentially equal footing. UVA/VT is either going to be a package deal for a conference (whether that's SEC, B1G, or the carcass of the ACC) or they end up splitting off to the SEC & B1G.

I don't really see a realistic scenario where one university gets left behind in the carousel. We'll both move on to greener pastures, or we'll both get left behind.

I have thoughts about how it would be if we joined the SEC. While I think we would cheer at first I'm not sure it would be good for us football wise as we will likely not see 10 wins for a long time and likely never win the conference. Hey we are in the SEC but are just a mid grade team there. We would essentially become USCe. Some great matchups for sure, but don't expect to be back near the top of the sport again. Not sure if it helps in recruiting and if so why go to VT over bigger SEC teams are offereing. Perhaps that's not any difference from now but I don't know.

I guess my point is that we should be careful about what we wish for. Now I don't want to stay in the ACC if Clemson, FSU etc jump ship but if they don't I don't think we should leave just to leave. Despite our crappy tv deal.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

Sadly we have been a big fish in the ACC at times. We will need coaching, recruiting and developing the right talent to be a big fish in either the SEC or B1G. Our alumni donor base has grown greatly under Whit and Sands, but is a drop in the bucket to the whales of those conferences.

But we need to be able say to the donors, fund our NIL organization so we can pay our players, our TV and merc deals will cover the expenses.

I actually am not so sure of that. We'd big dog Penn State and own Virginia. If UNC went B1G we'd make a huge dent there too. We'd probably almost instantly jump into top 15 recruiting classes with the occasional flash in the pan. I think we'd be closer to a Tennessee than a USCe.

Agreed. If we join the SEC, we better get used to the ceiling being 8-9 wins. Better that than being left out of any mega-conference though.

but don't expect to be back near the top of the sport again.

this is the part where your whole argument falls apart IMO. We have no better chance of getting "back near the top of the sport again" in the ACC than we would in any other league. In fact, I actually think our odds of "getting back" are higher if we're in a higher profile league (like the SEC). The competition is better, sure, but we would have better resources and a better recruiting angle (come play in the SEC) than we have currently. Both of those will help us to be better than we are right now. If we stay in the ACC we stagnate while the "rich get richer". If we jump into the same pond with the "rich" then we increase the likelihood of raising our profile. The "Iron sharpens iron" cliche has some truth to it too. You play against the best, it makes you better. We may not ever reach the levels of Bama and Georgia in the SEC but we sure as hell won't get there in the ACC either. Let's say we're a 5/10 right now. Stay in the ACC and we probably get to 6, at best. Jump to the SEC and we likely climb up to at least 7 or 8, perhaps higher with some luck. We may never get to 10 but we've got a much better shot at it in a better league than we would by staying put.

Onward and upward

Yeah I think some people are hung up on what we did in the ACC in the 2000s and Clemson over the past decade. Being a big fish in a small pond and getting yourself into the national conversation. The money disparity has gotten so big and now with the changed recruiting NIL landscape, that's not a possibility any longer. Remaining in the ACC will be relegation to tier 2 football with no hopes of improving. With SEC resources and Pry continuing to build the program, we would be in far better shape to compete than resigning ourselves to lower level football. We may not ever match the top of the SEC, but we don't know our true ceiling and what we could do with those additional resources yet either. I would take trying to realize our full potential as a program over throwing our hands up and saying we can't compete.

We would be the closest SEC team to the north east, we should have a good shot with any recruit from VA to NJ the only real recruiting competition for kids that have any desire is being closer to home would be bottom feeder B1G schools and whatever is left of the ACC

I am not sure what to do with my hands now