Should bcock send JJ packing, what are some realistic and good coaches we would actually be able to land? Would we go for the up and coming young gun or a retread? I'm hoping for a young guy that we could lock down should he show promise. Thoughts?
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Donnie Tyndall, Ben Howland, Leon Rice, Mike White, and Bruce Pearl are my top 5 in no particular order right now.
There is not a chance that Howland or Pearl will be in VT's price range, despite how their tenures ended poorly at UCLA and Tennessee. Pearl also has all kinds of off the court/recruiting and academic violation type stigma all ver him.
yeah, niemo at techhoops has been throwing pearl's name around. i just dont see it happening.
My dad is a UT fan and he believes UT might even try to hire Pearl back. He's not an insider but has been a season ticket holder in the past, and if Louisville was willing to go back to Petrino, it wouldn't be the most surprising thing that's ever happened.
Pearl has a questionable background, but the man is a phenomenal coach and has the ability to re-build a program. If he intends to get back into coaching - which I think is a given - a program like Tech's is exactly the type of place he should be targeting. Power conference, moderate expectations, located in a good recruiting territory, and can only go upwards.
Do I want a guy looking to rebuild his persona and coaching credentials and then bolt when the bigger name comes calling? I'm not sure...but in many ways I find it unrealistic for us to expect to find a Frank Beamer equivalent for the basketball program. Is Pearl the answer? Again, I'm not sure...but I think guys like Howland and Pearl, who are trying to resurrect themselves, are a good group to target in addition to the "up-and-comers." Heck, once upon a time, Bruce Pearl was the hot name after he lead UW-Milwaukee to the dance and parlayed that into the UT job (which was in a similar state as the VT program today). A lot can and will happen over the next 3 months.
Remember Jim Harrick at Georgia? Yeah... there you go.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/11/sports/college-basketball-georgia-susp...
YIKES!!!!!!!!!
We're in a position where we could take a risk. How much worse can it get?
In my opinion, lots worse. As sucky as it is to see the losses stack up, at least JJ isn't constantly under fire for off-court incidents. Not that good behavior makes up for bad seasons, but I'd prefer to throw up my hands when asked why my team lost AGAIN than throw up my hands about how the program I support is in trouble with the law/NCAA/public AGAIN.
I think we should look to some coaches that are on the younger side of the spectrum but have had HC experience. Who? IDK.
Ehhhh.......
1. It's college basketball, everyone is cheating. It's like running for public office in Louisiana. The context of corruption skews normal morality.
2. Miami cheated a lot, in two programs. Missed a bowl game or two. UNC gave out degrees. Got....um...nothing. The NCAA doesn't do anything. Why not cheat?
3. A coach with a history of cheating is going to be watched like a hawk.
Just because other schools do it doesn't mean I want VT to. I take pride in the fact that VT runs a very clean program in all sports. Winning is not so important to me that I would throw away Virginia Tech's reputation just to win some basketball games.
Every school is one disenchanted-former-employee away from a scandal.
I just don't see the point of looking down your nose at cheating programs anymore. The NCAA doesn't, why should we? These rules are capricious and arbitrary anyway. Didn't Pearl get busted for something stupid like too many texts? (Edit: It was actually the Aaron Craft BBQ situation. But who wouldn't want to throw a BBQ for Aaron Craft? He's so dreamy!)
The Northwestern Unionists are going to upset this apple cart even more.
Winter is Coming.
Some of the things that go on between these runners to/from college coaches and AAU aren't so much cheating as they are felonies, actually.
If you see no value in doing things the right way, even if others do things the wrong way and, thus far, have gotten away with it, then I suspect none of the obvious things I can respond with are going to sway you.
Since I otherwise have absolutely nothing nice to say about your opinion on this subject, I think it's probably best if I let your comment just stand on its own merits.
Jerry Tarkanian is still alive....
I think the next hire is a statement by the new AD, (assuming he makes a change.)
To come in and get a new coach tells me that he intends to make basketball a priority and fix it.
Which coach he choses, and how much money spent will tell us which direction he intends the program to go.
Pearl, IMHO, is not the direction I want to go. I really don't want UT's sloppy seconds.
I agree fully. I know tech fans have been wanting it for a while and I doubt it is possible, but I would like to see the new AD's vaunted hiring skills go out and get Shaka Smart. I think JJ has been recruiting the same kind of kids that fit Smart's system and would be an easier transition for him into the ACC. Again, doubt it will happen.
Shaka Smart is not coming to VT. Not ever.
He's already turned down bigger, more prestigious programs who can and have offered him more money than he can ever hope to.
He's Frank Beamer at VCU, completely untouchable. He's going to sit in that spot until he gets an offer he can't refuse from the likes of UNC, Kentucky, Duke, Syracuse, etc...he's in no hurry to get out of RVA.
So what is Pearl looking for in a next job?
I asked him.
He answered this way.
"It's going to need to be somebody that has the vision that Tennessee had," Pearl said. "Tennessee had a vision to try to get its men's basketball program to the level of its football program and where Pat Summitt had the women's basketball program. That was Tennessee's vision. They said, 'We're winning in everything else. We want to do it in men's basketball, too.' So that would be the job I'd want -- a job where somebody has that vision. It would almost need to be a school that's won a national championship in football or baseball. Somebody who's done it and wants to try to do it again in men's basketball. And I'm not saying I can win a national championship. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying it would need to be somebody who wants to try to do those things. Let's upgrade the facilities and schedule [national opponents] and engage the fans and be relevant. Just be relevant. That's what we did at Tennessee. I wanted Tennessee to matter to Kentucky fans. I wanted Tennessee to be a game Kentucky fans circled. We did that. And that's the kind of thing I would like to try to do again."
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/232...
So he's looking for a football school that needs a vision for basketball... hmmm
If all he did (or better stated, got caught for) was a BBQ and trying to cover it up, then that's not so bad. He got results at TN, and as long as he does things the right way going forward, I'd like VT to be the school that gives him a shot.
I wouldn't go anywhere near either of those guys. Neither one of them mind diving deep into the sleaze of AAU ball.
And trust me, having a son that has done the AAU circuit, I can attest to the sleaze. College football recruitment looks like Sunday School by comparison.
True.
It's commodities brokering with kids.
i always thought dino gaudio got the shaft at wake. they were mad because he "just" got them to the tournament most years. granted bzdlk has a better squad this year but their program has gone way down hill since dino was let go.
Actually, Wake was mad because Dino was fucking everything that at least barely moved...including other dudes wives and girlfriends.
you're leaving out either a comma or an apostrophe (Personally, I'm hoping for the apostrophe) and leaving this ambiguous statement to the imagination of the internet...probably not a great call.
Yes...apostrophe was accidentally left out. However, having colleagues close to the Gaudio situation at Wake, I could believe just about anything that could be imagined. He was actually doing players' girlfriends.
YIKES! There are no words for that...
oh, there's a word for it. . .'nice'
ahh juicy details I wasn't aware of.
We need more details bro...
See above...And, there was a volleyball coach, an athletic department wife, and a grad assistant.
man dino's an old snake in the grass
Was thinking a few days ago....wonder if we could get UVA's coach. Ha!
Tony is a god in Charlottesville. $1.7 million/year
Would make stealing him from UVA even sweeter.
UVA fans think their basketball team should be Top 25 and make the sweet 16 every season, so while Bennet has built a solid team/program and I think he's a very good coach, calling him a god in Charlottesville might be going a little far. For example, he's nothing close to Shaka Smart at VCU.
God is pushing it, but when you have to compare him against the TimeCop, he might just appear to be wearing a ringlet and carrying a lightning bolt.
Dom Starsia is god in Charlottesville
#LAXBRO
UVa is reaping the benefit of having a decent team in a very, very, very down ACC. I can't remember a time when the bottom 2/3rds of the league was this bad in my 40 yrs of watching ACC ball.
Even the top 1/3 isn't all that great. Syracuse is lighting it up, but Duke is having a very non-Duke season, Pitt is doing moderately well, and everyone else is average at best.
I think my first call would be to try and find a way to lure Shaka to VT. Not saying it is realistic but if he wanted to inject excitment and pick this program off the mat then he has to think big.
Shaka would be my first choice. That would be so awesome.
Unless Babs opens the purse strings dramatically, we can't afford Shaka...
I think we would need to offer Shaka close to Beamer money. I think he is safely making over 1 million a year at VCU.
According to Wiki*(known for accuracy) he is pulling down a cool $1.5 mil a year at VCU now.
That is what I thought, but I was too lazy to look up. Like I said to get Shaka out of a weaker conference and have to rebuild we are looking at close to $2 mil a year for a BB coach. If the new AD can pull it off, that would definitely sell some tickets.
That's a lot of money, but a huge change in the right direction too.
I agree, it would take closer to $2 mil as a starting point to pull Shaka away from VCU.
But lets be honest for a second: Where is this money realistically coming from? Basketball ticket sales (both single game and season tickets) are down drastically from previous years, and to make matters worse, the lack of donations by both Hokie Club members and former athletes is lacking (or non-existant). Babs needs to address the fiscal approach by his administration before we can really venture a guess as to who we can and cannot afford moving forward. Is it more of the same fiscal control that we saw under Weaver, are we going to cowboy up like a lot of other power schools, or are we going to fall somewhere in between?
That is why I wonder if he will give JJ a third year while he addresses funding issues in his first year. A modest increase in funding will allow him to open the purse strings more for a new coach.
And even then he still wouldn't come to Blacksburg
That guy has a chubby for coaching in an urban area. He has a good thing going for him at VCU, and he's already turned down far, far better jobs than what we could offer. He's a pipe dream that we should just forget about.
It almost took 2 hours for someone to mention Shaka! We're slipping.
Mainly cause he may not ever leave VCU. Considering how bad the bball program is I don't blame anyone for only thinking realistically
Shaka Smart will be the next Duke coach when ever Coach K finally hangs it up. That is my bold guess. But what i am trying to really say is Shaka Smart won't leave VCU unless its a dream job that he cannot refuse.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No way we get Shaka. He's waiting for a big time job to open up. Duke, Kentucky, UNC, etc. He's turned down nice offers from UCLA, UConn, Illinois and many others. Heck I'm sure he turned us down a couple years ago when we came calling (with probably less money than others). Definitely worth calling to check though.
This. I would add Syracuse to this as well. My guess would be Duke or Syracuse when ever Coach K or Jim Boeheim finally decide to retire. Shaka Smart will be a name that pops up then
I'm going to get downvotes and yelled at for this, but as a Duke fan, I'd like to see Johnny Dawkins come back and coach at Duke. While he hasn't had major success at Stanford, he also has not had major talent. Great coach, great person.
If Shaka went to Duke eventually, I'd embrace that as well.
No down vote from me, Dawkins will likely be high on the list of potential replacements when that day comes although Duke may be a fickle beast and decide they want the next flavor of the month when the time comes. Still think that day is a ways off.
Yea, Coach K has said repeatedly that he will retire when basketball is not fun anymore. Completely agree with your thought too.
I'd look at the Wichita St coach but I think 1) He'd be more happy/successful where he is and 2) If he did move on it would be to a bigger program.
It would be a very VT move to go after Dino Gaudio, former Wake coach.
Gregg Marshall is a good call. I think we would have a realistic shot of getting him. I'm not sure where he's originally from, but he spent a long time at Winthrop. Wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to come back east and who wants to stay in Wichita?
He's from Roanoke I remember correctly.
Yah he went to Cave Spring (Roanoke) and went to VT BBall games as a kid. He has respect for the VT bball program.
I just don't see him leaving Wichita for VT, when he will most likely get better offers and more $$$ at another major school.
I don't know I think you are too quickly pushing away the notion of coaching in the ACC. I don't see why a coach wouldn't want a shot at it. What other big school do you think he'd get a shot at that is more intriguing than having a chance to coach in the ACC? Add that to the fact that he'd essentially be coming home and I don't see why we couldn't have a good shot.
He is currently making $1.6 mil a season at Wichita State where has reached almost Beamer like status for how his teams do there. Going to need to be a really nice offer to get him to leave there. I happen to like a few other candidates better for Tech anyway but I think it would probably take $2.5 mil a year with full control over the basketball program to bring him to Tech.
Good point on the money, but obviously you've never been to Wichita...I doubt it would take more than he's making now to lure him away. But I also agree that there are probably better candidates. Like some of those you mentioned.
I have been through Wichita a few times, its still better than the year I spent at Fort Leavenworth as a kid and if he gets treated like he walks on water there, why would he want to leave? Something to be said for "owning" a small U.S. city.
Gregg Marshall makes $1.6m, is the Frank Beamer of WSU, and literally has his own plane to use for recruiting.
We can't afford Gregg Marshall.
Rumors indicated Gregg Marshall (Cave Spring grad) was targeted before we ultimately hired JJ. No one knows for sure if we extended an offer...he is rumored to be a bit of a hot head - and as a result people were a little leery of moving from one hot head (Seth) to another - but he certainly can coach.
My cousin played ball for him at Winthrop and Yes, confirmed Hot Head. Very easy to end up in his Doghouse. But also very game knowledgeable.
If Tech hires Gaudio....
how about that Greenberg guy on ESPN? he seems to know his bball ;)
I was about to suggest calling up Radford and talking to Brad Greenberg, but he's apparently not there anymore
Seems there were NCAA violations or something with him. But yeah he's gone...
Could we poach Cincy's coach? i know he just renewed and would be very expensive, but maybe he and Whit got along in their short time together?
Derek Kellogg from UMass?
Mike Lonergan at GW? he seems to have turned things around pretty quickly, no?
Cronin went to Cincy and they are his dream school, so I seriously doubt it but you never know.
My initial list of candidates that I would love see get a shot
Steve Pikiell from Stony Brook, has gotten them to the NIT three of the last four years while winning 20+ games in each of those three years. Currently 15-6 (7-0) and favored to win their conference and possibly make the NCAA this year.
Derek Kellogg at UMass. Has local ties as he started his career as an assistant at George Mason, has led them to two straight 20+ win seasons, currently they are 17-2(4-1). Comes from the John Calipari coaching tree and also was a hell of a point guard at UMass, where they won four straight conference titles.
Randy Rahe from Weber State. He has led them to 20+ wins in five out of seven seasons, had a winning record in all seven seasons, led them to the NCAA tournament once and the NIT twice. They are currently 10-6(7-1).
Donnie Tyndall from Southern Miss. Led SM to 20+ wins last season, on track to do so again at 18-3(5-1) this season. Prior to coming to Southern Miss, he led Morehead State to two NCAA tournaments and had a winning record there in all but one season.
Tod Kowalczyk from Toledo. Had a tough first year at Toledo but has consistently fielded winners between Toledo and Univ of Green Bay in twelve years as a head coach.
Greg Lansing from Indiana State where he has four straight winning seasons including one NCAA appearance. They are currenly 16-4(7-1) in the Missouri Valley Conference that usually has a couple of teams.
These are just a few, there are several more that I think would do well in the job not included but they are all of the same vein. Proven winners with clean programs that have brought mid major programs to the forefront and had success in developing talent with every day hard work. Of the list above, I think Tyndall or Kellogg would be my favorits
I was about to post pretty much the same thing. I think all of these would be reasonable candidates, and have shown that they can put together consistent teams, which is what I would personally value most for the future of our basketball program.
Another name I would add if money weren't too much of an issue: Anthony Grant. He's incredibly undervalued at Alabama, yet continues to put together decent teams despite limited support. Just looking at al.com for a few seconds, there is hardly a mention of basketball, yet they have a story about how 'bama football players are having snowball fights. Pretty telling microcosm of the single-sport culture down there. The two obvious questions though: 1.) would we be able to pay him ~$2mil a year, and 2.) would we be more supportive of him and his program here at VT than they are at Alabama?
The money issue is why I left off a couple of names from this list. Grant was one of those, also Mike Lonergan at GW, Greg McDermott at Creighton, Shaka at VCU, and even Gregg Marshall, who I think would be a great candidate, but is already making $1.6 mil a year at Wichita State.
All of these guys would be a big improvement but are going to cost about $2 mil a year to bring in, so if Babcock can swing that, then I am all for these guys getting interviewed.
Yah, not sure how I feel about paying a coach that's never reached the sweet 16 - 2 mil a year.
Rob, your list is the most realistic. Its a combination of coaches with good resumes and in the price range VT could support for the next couple of years while our AD gets our alumni giving scenario turned around and churning cash. A hire like any of these would get good attention as well.
Question: Which one has best recruiting roots in our region?
I don't know any of these guys and suppose that many here at TKP have some good info. Please pile on!
Based on my previous list:
Pikiell has some ties to the Richmond area and pulled at least one guard out of their this last year. He also was in the mix for several of the big talents coming out of DC the last couple of years but ultimately couldn't steal them from some big name programs.
Kellogg coached at George Mason so has ties to the DC market, he also took in Donte Clark, who committed to Tech before he failed to qualify, showing some similarity in player type between JJ and Kellogg. UMass currently have two players from the DC market on their roster. He also seems to have a pipeline into NYC and Texas.
Rahe is mostly a West Coast/Texas guy so he would need to make in roads, but that's where your assistant coach hires become abundantly important. Half his current roster is from Texas.
Tyndall has NYC on lock down, and draws almost half his roster from that talent rich environment which is hard to picture as he gets them to go down to Southern Miss, so I have to believe he could sell the same kids on Blacksburg if he needed to. He is also really good at identifying incoming foreign talent and getting them through the qualification challenges.
Kowalczyk focuses primarily on his talent rich backyard in Ohio, but has made some in roads in the last couple years to Maryland and DC.
Lansing also focuses on his backyard, bringing in Indiana and Illinois (Chicago) talent to bolster his roster but he does have kids from outside this zone, spread from Florida to Canada. Doesn't seem to have much in the way of local connections though.
If I had to rank them right now:
1) Kellogg
2) Tyndall
3) Pikiell
4) Lansing
5) Kowalczyk
6) Rahe
Surprised you didn't add Anthony Grant to your list. You think he will be too costly?
In my opinion, Grant is in the group that would take about $2 mil a year to get, so I didn't even review that groups recruiting strengths.
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/09/alabamas_anthony_grant_gets_5...
Might take more than $2, as apparently Alabama is already paying him $1.9 mil a year
hey, i said Kellogg all on my own! i feel smart when people with more knowledge agree with me!
Quite honestly, I don't care who we hire, we just need a new direction.
Right now we're basically at the 'it really can't get any worse' level of playing, so no matter who we bring in, unless its a raw newbie again, it should be an improvement over what we see now. Give me a coach who will have the offense actually running plays and playing positionally sound defense, and I'll be happy. I just want to know what I'm seeing out there is actually organized basketball. Right now, we don't even have that.
Dell Curry, we could get his sons, uh grandchildren to play for VT. Although something tells me that our relationship with him is FUBAR! Does Greenberg derserve credit for that? Checkdown to Bimbo Coles, what is he up to these days? or Tony Amaker, he is former NOVA guy. I would love MR Smart!
Bimbo Coles:
Take into account its three years old, but it says he is the Director of Fitness at Greenbrier Physical Therapy and Fitness
http://www.celticslife.com/2010/08/what-hell-happened-tobimbo-coles.html
https://sites.google.com/site/gvfitness/meetthestaff His work profile
As for Amaker,I assume you mean Tommy Amaker, who is the head coach at Harvard these days where he has led them to four 20+ win seasons in seven years, including two NCAA appearances. Harvard is 15-3(2-0) so far this year and on track to win their conference again. He would be another good candidate although I cant find any reference to his current salary.
Greenberg does kind of deserve credit for that, but it's not as bad as some people make it out to be. Stephan wanted to go somewhere that he could start his Fr year. Greenberg wouldn't promise it, since Dowdell had paid his dues and was slotted to start as a senior. However, from what I understand, Greenberg offered a walk-on spot to Curry, which I don't agree with. Dell Curry's kid not getting a scholarship offer from VT is blasphemous.
Phil Jackson is still unemployed, no?
If you can pull this one, I would probably move back to Blacksburg for the winters.
I keep wondering why we can't lure away coaches at schools like Gonzaga, St. Mary's, Butler, and other smaller schools that have had lots of success in the past few years
Gonzaga's Mark Few has turned down multiple offers from top tier programs to remain where he is. He is happy and gets to spend time with his family. I believe he has four kids that consider Spokane home. He is also bringing in about $1.3 million a season I believe already.
St. Mary's Randy Bennett is entrenched there. He has been their head coach since 2001 and recently signed a new 10 year contract which has him earning north of $1 mil a year. He really doesn't have a lot of motivation to leave, turning down even a couple shots at NBA head coaching gigs.
Butler's old head coach, Brad Stevens was hired away by the Boston Celtics this offseason and the new coach has not really proven his mettle yet to want to try to steal him away.
Just gives you an idea of how hard it can be to get those guys. They become their school's version of Beamer.
Another aspect of this is, it is a much easier path to relevancy for mid-major coaches of college basketball than at football. Why would the coach of a Gonzaga, or a Wichita State want to coach in Blacksburg when he has just as much of a shot at a title at his current mid-major school?
Do you really think that Wichita State has a bigger shot at a title than we do? I mean, certainly, right now it sounds preposterous, but if he came to Tech and had the upgrade in support that our athletic department could provide, what's to say he couldn't get our program turned around to the point where we could make a run? I'd say our ceiling is certainly higher than most mid-majors, assuming we can actually get our basketball program turned around. We are in the ACC, after all. I mean, look at last season. Miami won both the ACC regular season and tournament championships, and were a top-5 team. This year, well... we beat them in Miami.
I do think that Wichita State has a better opportunity than we do because year in year out it is a significant challenge for us to simply make the tournament, where Wichita State bringing in the talent he does, scrubs the floor with their league primarily. Once you are in the field of 68, anything is possible, because at most you need a seven game winning streak to get it done. Does the ACC as a whole bring in better talent than Wichita State, sure, and we use it to beat the snot out of each other, making it difficult at the end of a season to put a six or seven game winning streak together.
You can't think of them as small schools if they play in a major market and have a legit chance to make the ncaa tourney as at-large teams. It's not the same divide as football and non-bcs schools.
Spokane, Indianapolis, Oakland Ca are considerably bigger/better markets. They have local support. The arena isn't empty when the students go home for winter break.
These schools don't have football, therefore they are all in on basketball and their coaching staff is usually compensated well.
The coaches that have had success at these schools know their net worth in the coaching community - why would Brad Stevens give the time of day to VT when he can get an interview for the Boston Celtics job?
What you said...I didn't read down far enough.
I think somebody like Jeff Capel or Wojo would be an interesting fit. Capel has head coaching experience at VCU and OU but is back on Duke's bench and has been seen courting ODU looking to reboot his head coaching career. Wojo would need to take a head coaching gig somewhere to make a name for himself if he ever wanted to take the reigns at Duke. Both would bring an acc winning mentality, quality coaching pedigree, and alot of excitement to bburg, with regional recruiting experience. Wojo specifically would not command alot of $$ based on a first head coach gig and likely Capel would have low entry due the downward trend since going 30-6 at OU. The Collins departure shows that it has been made apparent to the Duke assistants that they will be hiring a big name and likely not from within when Coach K retires. I think its going to be an up and coming assistant.
Capel would be a steal, but I don't see him coming to VT. The guy is an elite recruiter in every sense of the term. I've actually been hearing that Coach K is beginning to groom him to take over when he retires.
I always thought it would be Chris Collins as the heavy fave.
Collins leaving for Northwestern of all jobs really surprised me. I know he had been offered several other legitimate gigs before that so not sure what the motivation was there.
I say we go for Pearl. I don't care if he had violations in the past. Our basketball program isn't in a position to go for the good-guy hire. We need a solid coach right now and Pearl is that coach.
Question for Basketball experts:
How bad is JJ doing right now? He was put in an impossible situation, and we all expected this to happen... Is his coaching so bad that he doesn't even deserve one more year? How much of the team's current struggles are JJ's fault, and how much is just the result of the situation he was placed in?
I heard so many of the Head Coaches who JJ coached under speak so highly of him. I really hope he doesn't leave VT, go elsewhere and be successful.
Are you convinced that JJ cannot build his program given time? Are you convinced that another coach could? Why?
im by no means an expert but there's a couple of troubling signs IMO
1) complete lack of offensive identity - no set plays really. it looks like guys playing pick up basketball at times
2) free throw atrocity. now i have no idea how JJ runs practice, but practice should not end until the players hit a bunch of them
3) team was completely unprepared for VCU's havoc even with something like 2 weeks to prepare
4) lack of communication between JJ and media/public on issues such as why Raines wasnt receiving playing time
3 and 4 yes. On 1, most teams run a motion/ continuous offense (tight flex, whatever) designed to get multiple guys open in any given stage of the motion with set plays are for special situation generally- still I agree with you in that there is no identity to the half court offense- pick something and do it well for crying out loud.. On 2, this was a very good (like near 75%) FT shooting team early on with fresh legs and the decline is due to fatigue, physical and mental and just plain lack of concentration.
I don't fault the effort most games- until last night. BC was a total train wreck of horrendous execution and effort. Would have made Ricky stokes proud and if you recall, that was truly awful basketball at the time.
As the previous comment hits on, its the lack of what I think of as fundamental basketball that is missing that makes me lean towards JJ needs to go.
Big men should know how to shoot in near the glass and be able to take a ball up strong.
Guards should not have trouble shooting free throws, and everyone should be at least 60% from the line.
No set offense consistently.
Clock management in the final minute of each half. JJ must have spent some time with the TimeCop in the off season.
The inability to run the fast break effectively.
Does some of this attribute to youth and talent? Sure, but quite a bit goes to coaching as well. The VCU debacle was a great example. Its something VCU consistently runs on every opponent but with two weeks between games, you couldn't ensure that your team knows how to beat a trap? Floor responsibility and assignment basketball are essential and they looked lost at best.
Its also the player management issues that continue to be a trend, his fault or not, they reflect on a coach when you have seniors sitting on the bench because they are in your dog house.
Given time though anyone could come up with a good year or two.....how much time is acceptable? How low does the program need to seem? If JJ can find some way to win two or three games the rest of the way he might get another year but I wouldn't be surprised if he was gone the day the season ends.
Do I have faith that someone else can be successful? Sure, but that's also why I want us to target the list of mid major programs for the coaches I listed above, because they have proven they can be successful at the school that they are at.
VT lacks Straight ball players. I mean stone cold ballers. Dowdell, MD20, even E Green were ballers. You could take those guys to play at Michigan or at Rucker park and get results. I would not feel confident in the same regard about any of the current guys other than Barksdale, who is apparently hurt. ***sigh***
This. And i would add Deron Washington to that list. Seth Greenberg, i thought, wasn't very good at coaching up offense. His offense was very bland and basic compared to other teams, however, he had players such as what you listed above that were able to carry our teams offensively, whether it be by isolation or improvising off fast breaks, etc. We played sound, intense defense (which is what i miss about our teams under SG) that could keep us always in a game, and let our "ballers" take over. At the same time though, this led to ALOT of close games where we lost alot of heart breakers. If we had a true ACC caliber point guard to supplement with these players above (which i thought Zabian was) we could have made some deep tourney runs.
In response to the original question. JJs teams (so far) don't have said players, and so far lack any defensive intensity or defense at all. From the handful of games ive been able to watch on defense we are never up in the offensive players grill, don't talk or communicate very well, don't help very well, don't get on the hardwood for any loose balls, and by god i dont think ive ever seen anyone step up and take a charge (at least in the games ive seen)
In college basketball defense will keep you in games (most of the time). We don't really have that. And this is on JJ (well for the most part). Since we play mostly man, defense really isn't X's and O's (until you get into zones and full or half court presses which ive rarely seen us press). Defense takes intensity, conditioning, awareness (where the ball is in relation to your man), and knowing when your the help man. For intensity, as stated above we just aren't in the other teams grills, not diving for loose balls, not taking charges, and we just look out of it and unmotivated. Some of this is due to lack of a great atmosphere (Cassell being empty this is where we need the fans the most!), and the rest translates to whats going on in practice and preparation. Ive never seen a practice, but I can imagine its not as intense as Seth's practices were. For conditioning, some of this is just not enough horses in the stable and injuries playing its toll. Awareness and help on defense is all about reps and experience (which is what we lack from the coach all the way down to younger players)
As far as offense goes, it looks kinda like Seth's offense just worse. Which makes sense, being that JJ was under Seth.
All in all, I think JJ will be successful one day as a head coach; however, i think this level of college basketball (ACC) was just too soon. He needs to start off at the mid major ranks and gain experience from all the way down to how to run a practice and game prep, to in game management, and knowing which players to go to (based off of key moments, clock management, and if they are hot). For JJ, the opportunity was a no brainer. He made the right decision taking the job obviously because hes gaining great experience being thrown into the fire, as they say. It just sucks for the program and that's all on the person that hired him.
Just my opinion
JJ's practices I would say are far more intense than any of the one's I witnessed under SG but I think it is more out of frustration than by design. They do some good drills that you see play out in the game for the most part, but the difference is that the intensity doesn't translate to the games. They come out soft and expect teams to roll over for them. Devin Wilson being quoted that "we took them lightly" against BC the first time was an absolute joke. After being beaten by USC Upstate and Seton Hall and really before that, should never have had that attitude. I expected this team to be a couple wins better by now, but that hasn't happened due to injuries, poor shooting and an attitude that to me seems they have given up.
A name I didn't see anyone mention is Donnie Jones. He turned Marshall around in two years and had multiple players come in that were great. Deandre Kane (now at Iowa state) is one of donnies guys as is hassan whiteside (2nd most blocks in a season and now d-league player). He was involved in some trouble after going to ucf but I'm not sure how involved he was with the infractions even though he took the fall. Plus he wouldn't cost more than 1mil. Definitely an upgrade and a coach who has performed a huge turnaround at a non-power bball school already
Greenburg, for one more bit of the apple. Why not?
What's basketball?
OK a long time ago a farmer had a pole and a peach basket and probably some ball with black and white patches...
Unfortunately I think you have to give JJ at least one more year and if he improves give him a 4th. Coach K had a few losing years, not as bad as JJ, before winning which was pretty common until the 90's. Once he is fired (I doubt there will be improvement) here are my picks/advice for WB
1. Greenberg--He had this program on the bubble in the past and if he hadn't been fired the 12-13 season would have featured a Big3 of Erick Green, Montrezl Harrell, and Dorian Finney-Smith. I think that would've been a tourney team. Sometimes it takes a while for coaches to get it right and his time at ESPN could be a positive learning experience in X's and O's and as a people person. Buck Showalter says he's a better manager now because he learned so much in his time at ESPN. Greenberg's ESPN run also gives him greater visibility which betters recruiting. He had started getting the big names but every CBB fan now knows who he is, he's on TV every day during the season. And he loves VT, his kids went here, he has a passion for the school I think that would get the best out of his players and the fans
2. Mike Cronin--WB will definitely go after him, they already have a relationship. We could pay him more than Cincy. This would be a great hire, he is a really good coach but he may really want to stay at Cincy rather than rebuild a team in SW Virginia.
After Greenberg and Cronin
Bruce Pearl--NCAA violations, expensive
Shaka Smart--never going to happen, has the best bball program in the state
Gregg Marshall--apparently from Roanoke, expensive, why leave Wichita State which now has a full house every night and a shot the Final Four every year
Jeff Capel--coached at VCU, coached Blake Griffin, now coaches under Coach K, Oklahoma outside of Griffin bros years wasn't very good, Coach K disciples haven't fared well
UMass coach--whoever he is is good
Karl Hobbs/Lonergan--Hobbs got GW into tourney coaches at UCONN now, Lonergan will probably have them in tourney this year
Lastly we could follow the VCU model and hire up and coming young coaches (Jeff Capel, Anthony Grant, Shaka Smart) and maybe one will eventually stay. Whoever the people at VCU who are behind that model, we need to find them and hire them. We tried to copy VCU when we hired JJ but obviously we're not as good at it as they are.
Point #1 has already been covered plenty of times. Harrell and Hyphen were both on the way out regardless. There's no way we bring Seth back, apparently he was a cancer in the locker room. He was driving away both players and assistant coaches. I don't care how good of a coach you are, that's a recipe for failure.
+1 for Seth can't come back. BB program need a complete reset of culture. So have a new AD should facilitate that reality. Based on what were are hearing about Babcock I feel much better about the future of our BB program because I think he will bring positive change to current state of the Hurrying Hokies!
Jay Wright. Even though he is making 2.29 mil.... One can dream, right?