According to an article from WDBJ7, the Town of Blacksburg has voted to make students and other parties interested in hosting a large gathering to apply for a permit.
Yup you heard that right.
"We're not trying to be killjoys and eliminate all fun," Town of Blacksburg Attorney Larry Spencer said. "It's just a way to reduce the size a little bit, it's just too big right now."
Now, there's a voluntary party registration system Spencer says will be beneficial for everyone involved.
What a brilliant idea... /s
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The more important question... will this actually be enforced?
I can't believe Center/Green St is that big of an issue. It's just 6 weekends out of the year and I think you should know what you're getting yourself into living near those neighborhoods. That being said I haven't tailgated there in about 5 years so maybe it is just utter mayhem now.
Center Street is a microcosm of exactly what makes being a student in college/college football as a student special.
Last year was less mayhem than Barger Fest or Stonegate was in the late '80s, but pretty similar. Densely packed people drinking too much to loud music. People wandering around to find a place to go the bathroom on short notice. Drunk people doing drunk people things. Enough people with limited restraint doing things they should know better than - pissing in public, littering, cutting through peoples lawns.
My uncle was at Tech in the late '80s and the stories I've heard are crazy. I can hardly imagine that Blacksburg as a '13 grad.
The 80s in general are hard to imagine these days. People think it was all neons, leg warmers, etc. but it was really a very different era where we mostly didn't know how much stupid stuff we were doing (but I know I still look back on it lovingly).
I was very lucky to not be thrown out of VT in the spring of '80 due to stupid freshman stuff going on in my dorm floor.
Student from '83-'88 and fortunate to be in the last 'grandfathered' class as they raised the drinking age from 18 back to 21. Two years in Lee (pre co-ed days) and one in Stonegate and two in Terrace View in what was the back corner. Attended multiple Bargerfests (RIP Barger St.), and multiple Stonegates. I remember one of them where the folks in the 1st building (near Tom's Creek and Stonegate Dr.) 'borrowed' one of the giant inflatable ducks from a local business and tried to blow it up but couldn't -until they went back and 'borrowed' the compressor. Riding the bus or walking up to the party you could see that duck in the front yard!. The best year was the year I live in building 3 on 2nd floor back /parking lot side. The organizers started with 40 kegs at noon and those were gone by 1:30pm. (Every apartment on the back side had their own keg on the balcony). When the original 40 kegs ran out ,folks brought their own cases, coolers, or shopping carts full of beer. The 7-11 nearby couldn't keep their shelves stocked and were selling beer right out of the delivery truck. I have a pic somewhere from my balcony of the crowd tat completely filled the parking lot-estimates were 2000-2500 people. Glorious memories!
PS that apartment was huge -2 bedroom apartment -almost 1000 sq feet with a large kitchen and walk in pantry, Great deal and no more expensive than Terrace View.
Stonegate appts were a great deal for the size of the appts. One of the bedrooms was huge and could easily fit two people if you didn't mind "dorm" level privacy.
and yet, somehow, that's exactly what you've just done - must be a future politician
Pretty obvious this is a targeted hit on Center St.
Those apartments will apply for the permit. They will be denied. They will host tailgtes anyway and cops will shut it down for not being permitted.
And... sure enough....
Yep, exactly what this is for with a thinly veiled attempt to disguise this as a public safety measure. So they approve the first permit and then deny all the rest after the first complaints start rolling in about 4 hrs before kickoff.
Last time I was there BPD set a perimeter and made it very clear, pass the line get arrested or cited. Don't understand how you expect to do more. Students will just spread out over Blacksburg and do the same thing.
I mean that very argument was made, and the council ignored it
Instead, this is what won out:
All it would take is a two BPD or campus police at the fenced entrance to stadium woods and the salamanders would be able to bask in all their wild glory
Can somebody explain to me what Friends of Stadium Woods has to do with stopping underage drinking in the student population? This Paulson lady sounds like she's trying to recreate the 1920s.
Edit: To add to this the opinion article in the Roanoke times by Paulson points more towards her being anti-alcohol and making the not wanting drunk people trampling stuff in Stadium woods argument seem a little more besides the point.
She strikes me as someone who spends a couple days a.week driving around her neighborhood looking for HOA violations.
So she's mad about people being cool?
These people are what we call, losers... college kids are gonna do college kid stuff. This won't stop anything, only divert the same activities elsewhere. For crying out loud, it's on 6/7 days out of 3 months.
Go yell at the clouds somewhere else.
Blacksburg is a total buzzkill. These people don't realize if it weren't for VT no one will have ever heard of Blacksburg.
Coming from a contractor about to finish up a job just off campus: we will never work in the town of Blacksburg again. We'll close the doors before that happens. We helped Falconer on the chiller plant project at the same time and, shockingly, the university was a pleasure to work for...not even comparable. The town is the definition of a "pissing contest." Infuriating.
Oh yeah, definitely agree with this. While I never had any projects derailed too badly, there was (is?) a building official for the town who was an absolute PITA. Not sure if she's still around but man, talk about throwing your weight around just because you can...
She's gone. I haven't found Sam to be unreasonable. But, I haven't had a big project in town, and he's generally agreed with my thoughts on things. So, my dealings have been more smooth.
Now... the whole rooftop equipment screening policy is a joke. I sat through an hour long meeting with those folks. There was no reasoning, there was no thought. They just read statutes and didn't think at all about their actual application.
Appreciate the update. I haven't had a project in town limits in a few years, glad to hear things are at least incrementally better.
Ah, the infamous screenwall policy. Good stuff! I'm sure you can see that cooling tower from 460 biz, through the building and from over a quarter mile away.../s
I designed a sewage lift station for the CRC years ago. She made me get an occupancy permit for a 1 room station with a 2 sewage pumps and a generator...
A lot of the, would be happy if nobody had ever heard of it.
Slightly off topic, but I find it really frustrating that Tech and the Town can't figure out a way to live in some sort of symbiotic way. Town being ass backwards in trying to reduce gatherings that bring millions to the local economy annually, and Techs insistence on massive undergrad growth without a correlating investment in infrastructure in the surrounding community making it a chore to go anywhere, are just two examples of poor collaborative management. My favorite months to live here are mid December through mid January, and June-August. It's honestly gotten to the point that as soon as I'm able (IE youngest graduates high school) I'm blowing this joint and moving someplace where I have space to breath. Now get off my lawn! /rant
Similar experience from previous century. Something must be wrong in the water. Nearly every townsfolk $ derives from VT $. Human nature to bite the hand that feeds.
I think that's generally accurate. I'm fortunate in that my financial situation isn't derived from the presence of a major university or even major city close by (I can work from anywhere).
To clarify my OP, I'm frustrated with both entities. Both sides seem to do things without regard for resulting impacts on the other. The culture at VT is not what it was when I was there and in my opinion the changes haven't all been for the better. Some of it I'm sure is getting older, jaded, and recognizing Tech for what it is, a billion dollar money making machine that churns out graduates like a 1950s Detroit auto plant churned out stamped metal parts. I won't hide the fact that the love I had for Tech (the campus, the athletics program, and "home") have lost all of their luster. The growth currently being pursued without regard to impacts on the town is untenable. Blacksburg is turning into something I never wanted it to become. And I think the town's relative "obtuseness" may just be their only way to try to push back on this heavy handedness from the university. The university knows the town needs it, but it doesn't always have to be a prick about it.
Having been a student and later a "townie", the arrogance and disrespect generally shown by students towards non-student town residents is unwarranted, and has gotten more shitty in the last 5-10 years. I can't wait to get the hell outta here and find my 100 acres I'll one day die on. Then I won't care if Tech adds 20k students and there's gridlock through downtown all day everyday, and I won't care if the town is still as ass backwards as can be.
To address this briefly, there are a lot of misconceptions about what is going on with VT's growth. Thinking we are ignoring the Town and pushing ahead with whatever we want is utterly incorrect. Having been on some of the relevant internal meetings, there is a lot of attention paid to Town infrastructure and ongoing housing availability for off-campus students. The latter has been particularly bad the last two years or so, especially with the demolition of the old part of Terrace View to build The Hub, which should be fully open for the fall. Same with Sturbridge being bulldozed for Union.
As for growth, VT is pretty much where the administration was trying to grow by 2023. The notion that we are trying to grow to the size of Texas A&M in Blacksburg is not true. I've literally heard that directly from President Sands, in an official setting. We've hit our growth goals and we will look at what the Town and region can handle in the future. But VT has had a massive increase in applications and demand in recent years. We need to see if that level of demand is sustained or not, and not just keep projecting growth for the sake of growing.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think bulldozing 2-3 story apartments to make room for 4-6 story apartments really addresses the issue. Yeah, "yay more housing!", but how will that increased density impact congestion in and around town? Maybe Tech has hit their growth goals, great. My point is that maybe those goals are the issue to begin with. There doesn't seem to be infrastructure (roads, retail options, etc) to support the amount of people now living here. In my purely anecdotal opinion, we've exceeded the carrying capacity and now it's hell to go anywhere. And what makes it worse is that a large percentage of that population aren't invested in the health of the community long term, instead just taking what it can for 4 years as long as they're getting what they want and having a great time. I'm all for the college experience, I sure as hell enjoyed mine. But when the growth goals of the university seem more important than the quality of life for the community residents, I have an issue.
You claim Tech isn't just doing whatever it wants without consideration for the town residents? What is something that the university wanted but decided not to pursue it due to a collaborative effort with the town that determined the desire wasn't a good fit? Not being an ass, I'm seriously curious. I'm not party to any decisions or discussions, and I'd genuinely like to know more about how the two entities work together.
I think it's probably my issue. I want to live in a small town and come high water or hell, Blacksburg isn't going to be a small town at some point in the future. Like I said, it is what it is and I'm looking forward to leaving.
Housing and affordability remain a problem. Undergrads paying for "luxury" apartments that are nicer than my house is crazy. We agree there. There's still a housing problem but hopefully it will get better in terms of available bedrooms.
I can't give you any example of when the university announced they weren't going to do something because the Town asked them not to. Those are usually private conversations that we don't hear about. Suffice it to say I am part of a university body that does consult with President Sands about what actually is happening and expansion, construction, new enrollment targets, etc are all set in consultation with the Town. Some of that requires the Town to agree to infrastructure and road improvements, etc. that sometimes get slow walked because residents complain and then the process gets dragged out. The Town and VT need to have a symbiotic relationship, maybe it's in balance and maybe it's not. Whenever something new happens, we have to see what the effects are.
Blacksburg is changing. People who have been here a long time don't like it. I get that. I look at some of the construction and wonder "how the hell is that going to work?" but I can't let my assumptions run amok. I'll see what happens. I love just north of the Hub construction and it's been a mess. I think traffic there will suck. But we will see because the Town said the traffic study the contractors did was satisfactory to alleviate concerns. Skepticism is good but the notion that the university does what it wants, Town be damned, is wrong.
I appreciate the measured response. And I'll add that if I came across as thinking the university does whatever it wants, I apologize. I was really just trying to convey that the two entities don't seem to have a balanced working relationship with aligned goals, and perhaps came across a little on the heavy side. I don't think either opinion (all the town's fault, all Techs fault) is valid. Which sounds like the same thing you might be saying.
I think we agree more than we disagree, now that I've had a chance to reread your comments.
as one of those people that's been here a long time, I am ecstatic to be getting out next week. There are all these housing developments (and presumably infrastructure updates) going in all over town, but the roads aren't being widened to handle the increased traffic. The Prices Fork glut is soon to extend well past Merrimac Rd. It's already a bit difficult getting around when the students are in town, now it'll be an absolute tire fire 8 months out of the year.
I've worked in and around the Hub job site since its beginning, and "tire fire" accurately describes that location as well. Whoever said it was satisfactory obviously doesn't live on that side of town.
I know the score, and I see how it's changing. Couldn't be more glad to be moving to Roanoke.
whereabouts?
Plantation Rd near Hershberger
My wife passes through there every workday in the summer.
Welcome to the neighborhood.
Of course we've had a massive increase in applications, we're awesome, everyone wants on this train!
Christiansburg bears a large load due to the students. Store shelves are empty almost constantly.
This shows some lack of organization with surrounding communities. Is Christiansburg ever considered in the discussions between Blacksburg and VT? My guess is no.
Blacksburg wants to be a city and seperate itself from Montgomery County. I'm sure their first foray investigating that possibility came up with a need for significant $$$$. So it was likely tabled for the future. It will come up again. This shows the Blacksburg management mindset.
Also, VT has started a big project: the parking lot between Durham Hall and Goodwin Hall was removed and is being replaced with a circle and mass transit access. No parking space replacement. That was 300-400 spots. I know what the incentive is, but the reality is ... "not smart, Bob" - to coin/modify a phrase. I work with several professors there, they arent happy about it.
Lots of non-coordination and short-sidedness shown in all this.
Blacksburg looked into City status about a year ago and was promptly informed that they would get a 125 million dollar bill from the school board for all the new (and old) schools that have been built in the Town. That ended the research.
Classic NIMBY move and rhetoric
After reading takes by multiple lawyers and other professionals and people involved with campus and none campus organizations I don't really see any major changes to town policies. In fact these policies are in line with town of Clemson and Harrisonburg.
The ordinance change as written doesn't really do that much, other than get the Stadium Woods people to shut up. The permit requirements are for gatherings of 200 people. While Center Street ends up with way more than that, it's not a single, unified party organized by one person. They'll probably write a few tickets this year, but I doubt they'd hold up if people fight it.
That's good to hear.
I wonder why there are so many crackpot folks around here demanding we go to such drastic measures to protect these salamanders and what not? I mean I'm all for conservation and all (seriously, I probably spend more money annually that goes toward real conservation efforts than most folks), but is 6 days out of 365 really going to make a difference?
It seems there's a way higher than average population in Blacksburg of lunatics who treat whatever it is that is important to them as an absolute religion or cult. I've always been curious as to why this is. I guess I've never felt strongly enough about something that I felt I had the right to tell someone else what they can or can't do. It seems many (many!) people around here don't have that internal barrier or filter. I find it odd.
I don't think it's just Blacksburg. The various groups of people that feel they have the right to tell others what to do has become more vocal across a broad array of various issues. We just happen to notice it in Blacksburg more because we are following topics like this.
But for example, and case if city and college creating issues where none existed before, case out here in Tempe, AZ. Great bar and music venue called Shady Park (seriously, they got some world class DJs to their little venue). ASU had the brilliant idea to build a high rise community specifically for people 65 and older looking to continue or begin their education (which is a fine premise in and of itself)...DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET from a loud af EDM venue and party bar that had been there a decade plus, not to mention all the other bars and restaurants found just off a massive college campus. The residents of this new complex complained incessantly about the noise and foot traffic, and the city caved and changed its ordinances. The venue sued on the issue and lost, effectively putting them out of business. But it begs the question, what did those 65 and over think the environment they were moving to was going to be like located literally across the street from one of the largest college campuses in the country?
So it's not just Blacksburg, it's everywhere.
I would argue they knew exactly what the environment was going to be and they also knew exactly what the outcome of the resulting lawsuit was going to be. Just seems to be how things work. Shame. Common sense isn't so common.
An excellent point
i think you're giving people a lot of credit.
I tend to make that mistake often...
The town I grew up in finally got some one running it that could math and figured out that while the police and fire helped a lot of people surrounding the town, only houses in the town limits paid taxes for them. So the town went to a number of these area and said they would have to pay (something small like $15 a month) for all the town services. Most went along with not problems be sure they had no other choice. But this one area, that was on a lake and had some very sought after homes decided they were close enough to the next town (like 10 miles down a not so major road) that it would be better than the town they were adjacent too. And that's when all of their insurance raise way more than the cost of services. Because I fire is way more likely to spread to another house when it has 15 more minutes to burn. Shocked Pikachu face!
I can't tell if it's your 10 beers or my 10 beers, but I had a hard time following this. I think I get it.
Affluent neighborhood had to start paying for emergency services from the adjacent town, didn't want to pay, got services from further town and their insurance skyrocketed higher than the cost of said services.
That's what I interpreted last night. Thanks for clarifying!
I know clarification on nuanced is probably against online protocol but you're welcome
Sounds like they got #Boomered
Sounds a lot like the people who buy houses next to existing airports or airfields and then bitch about the noise in any and every public forum available.
Sounds like the people that buy houses next to farms then complain on the smell and sounds.
As other folks mentioned in their examples. People will find anything to complain about.
As a Loudoun County resident we get a lot of complaining about all the data centers everywhere from people who don't realize our property taxes would be much higher if not for all the data centers. Also my all time favorite Internet comment: "why do we even need all these data centers, I thought everything was in the cloud now".
30% of the expected tax revenue for the county is from data centers ($590mm). This has helped Loudoun County Residential Real Estate tax stay almost flat in dollars (not rate) for a decade. If anything it's technically gone down when factoring inflation.
See also: every HOA ever. People like to complain and they like to win arguments. Doesn't really matter what it's about.
I mean, obviously, the town needed to get out ahead of all those crazy SEC tailgaters in the coming years.
Honestly it sounds like a money grab with the mask of reducing size... Idk about Blacksburg, but permits for that type of stuff down here ain't cheap.
Between VT hating Greek Life, the student population stuffed past the gills and Blacksburg now supposedly being so concerned about alcohol consumption that fun isn't allowed, I honestly think I'll suggest to my kid to look elsewhere for college. VT was everything to me, but it sure isn't what is used to be.
I hope Center Club rages harder than ever before at Center Street.
Wut.
This kind of stuff happens in every college town across the country. If a little extra trouble partying on center street is making you tell folks to go to another university, you might just be a crappy Hokie.
I don't want to call anyone a crappy Hokie but you're right in that a large portion of the country is cracking down on Greek life and out and in the open partying
I don't think he's a "crappy Hokie".
Believe it or not, there are a lot of Hokies who will tell you that their favorite part of attending VT was their frat/sorority.
I wasn't part of Greek life there, but met the mother of my two amazing children because of my roommate's involvement with it.
That's just an example. We all have our reasons for loving our time in Blacksburg. Let's not call each other "crappy" just because some of those reasons are clearly being pushed away at this point.
One of my favorite parts about my time there (2000-2004) was having a competent football program. I don't think anyone would call me a bad Hokie for saying it's kinda...not good...at the moment
I never said I would "tell other other folks to go to another University." I said I would suggest to my own kid to maybe look elsewhere. You can inform your kids what you feel is best and I'll do the same with mine. Reading comprehension, try it sometime.
My college experience was obviously different than yours. What I see VT becoming doesn't jive with the experience I had. Maybe it's some of the good old days, or maybe its the fact that it really is changing. Current students, like the two I had dinner with last night, agree that the town feels crowded, they don't like Sands and the direction he is taking the University and that tailgating at Center Street is fucking awesome and they think the new town laws are dumb as hell. So I'm clearly not the only "crappy Hokie" here.
My kid can do and choose whatever he wants to, but if he takes after me, like I often took after my father, he might want a similar experience as I had. It seems like that experience might not be at VT. I'll show him some other options. That's all I said.
Suggesting I'm a crappy Hokie is bullshit. Kiss my ass.
As someone involved with Greek life in an alumni advisory role, I can tell you that Tech is right about in the middle, maybe on the lenient side. Some of these colleges have so many times, these kids can't stay compliant just acting like normal college kids. The University wants a roster for a party, days in advance, which of you remember your college days, getting kids that she to settle plans 24 hrs in advance is a miracle. It's ridiculous to the point of comical. At one school if three or more members want to travel more than 15 miles from campus, it they have to register as an event and take some sort of campus transportation. So going to an away game with your boys requires paperwork. Tech isn't pulling that at least not the last time I spoke with my old chapter.
I've always been a huge proponent of, "if you treat people like adults, they will act like adults." I see those schools don't necessarily subscribe to that philosophy.
My ability to give anyone else the benefit of the doubt went out the window during COVID. At this point, I expect everyone to show their ass the second they are asked to do something they don't want to do, because acting like a full grown toddler is increasingly becoming the norm in public.
Agree. And it's because showing your ass is increasingly more likely to result in getting your way. I'll stop there for CG reasons, but I agree with your take (IE don't give anyone the benefit of the doubt, and expect the worst/unexpected)
Have you lost your mind?!!!
You can't go applying that logic to the entire country. I meant a smaller sample size, of course. Chances of toddler behavior increase with crowd size.