While looking up video on Whit Babcock and Kevin Jones, I came across this video (below), and it got me thinking. I know we've seen tables comparing stats over the last few years, and discussed recent line and coaching issues. But using 2004 (my favorite season) as a specific comparison with some similarities to the past season, what are some differences you think made the 2004 team successful, which may have been lacking in 2013? Why were the young receivers so successful?
-Same HC
-Same DC (#1 Defense, debut of r-Fr "9 - 11" unit)
-Senior QB, sometimes maligned
-Receivers - r-Fr, Fr and a sophomore in Hyman, Morgan, Royal & Clowney.
-Reduced expectations due to youth and some off the field player issues.
-Beginning of #DecadeOfDominance
Comments
They might have had a wee bit to do with it.
yeah the talent we had a receiver was better than what we had last year
Probably the best talent we've ever had at WR as a group. Consider 3 contributing freshman, and Clowney. All but one made an NFL roster. Two of which are consistent contributers on the Redskins and Chargers.
So, and my bad, Jeff King also. Can't forget about him.
not to mention royal and morgan's contributions on special teams. the returns those two made were incredible
We might be getting the same type of player as Eddie Royal in a couple of days.
Also, Harper and Hyman none too shabby.
Forgot all about Harper.
ummm, everyone please listen to that video @24 sec
Haha that's great. Who was it?
sounds like Charlie Wiles.
Off the top of my head, I can think of the following:
1. We were playing in a diluted ACC that didn't have as many top-level teams as the league has today.
2. The college game was significantly different in 2004. Spread and Read Option were isolated systems that were really just beginning to grab a foothold in the game at the time. The 9-11 unit, as you so wonderfully referred to them, wasn't forced to cover skill position players in space like our defense would today. Heck, look at how Bud had to alter his scheme to defend the spread. Would Hall and Adibi both see the field simultaneously all 13 games in 2013? You would hope so, but I'm not as scheme savvy as someone like French.
3. We had a decent ground attack that we could lean on (HUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMMESSSS) - and that includes Bryan Randall's great scrambling ability. Randall, short of a couple of elite passing games (I think of the Insight.com Bowl and the Syracuse Game where he threw for 504 yds), was a great game manager and used his dual threat ability to keep plays alive and move the sticks. Not to say he didn't chuck it (he threw a spotty deep ball), but the time he created moving in the pocket allowed guys like Eddie Royal to ultimately adjust and make plays in space after the catch.
4. Our Secondary and Dline were disgustingly good. End of story.
For what its worth, I hated our OLine that season...I think Mario Williams & Co. sacked Randall at least 10 times in the NC State Game. They pulled it together as the season went on, but it wasn't exactly a banner year. (Now French will crucify me...)
We lost yardage on 9 consecutive plays during that NC State game. I believe that was the first Stinespring hate week.
Mario Williams, Manny Lawson, and Jonathan McCargo... three NFL 1st round picks, were part of that defensive line. In retrospect it isn't surprising that they shredded VT's OL. Ultimately, they are a Brandon Pace field goal away from only losing close games to what I felt were the two best teams in the country.
Even then, people overlooked the fact that the Pack had the best defense in the nation. On the plus side though, that last drive was when Randall finally started to hit his stride as a team leader and ACC player of the year quarterback.
everybody in the south end zone thought the kick was good until they said it wasnt.
I was in the North Endzone and it was the same reaction. What a gut punch...
yeah it sucked, i remember being in the nez and everyone started cheering then cussing, then left to go drink heavily
All I remember is 8 straight, 10-2, Jim Davis swattin' 'em @ Miami, and how great a kicker Brandon Pace was...
Couldn't agree more. While our secondary and D-line was good this year, not to the level of the 04 team.
We could tackle a mobile QB
I think that figures into what PhillyHokie said about the spread systems a few posts up.
Typing in nostalgica
QB. Randall turned a corner with the GT game that year and was very dependable down the stretch. I think LT had a chance to turn the corner in the Duke or BC games and failed to do so.
Not that LT was the reason for loses, but like Randall, he could have led us to a couple more wins.
Besides '99, '04 was my favorite year.
More than anything, the receivers were more successful because they were simply more talented.
^This
Morgan, Royal, Clowney played/play on Sundays. Same with Jeff King. You knew not long after their first games how talented they were.
So which one of our current WRs will be drafted?.... yah
Josh Stanford has a shot.
A good shot. The kid's gonna be special by the time he leaves.
He has plenty of time left at VT, so I would give him the best odds out of our current WRs. Similar player to Clowney.
I doubt Stanford gets drafted. He's a good kid and will likely be a solid contributor, but he lacks any top tier playmaking attributes. Hands, route running, separation, deep threat speed, size, yrds after catch ability, etc. -- unfortunately he is no better than average at any of these things.
Compare him to Danny Coale. Even though Stanford's stats are a little better as a Frosh than Coale's, Coale was playing on a team that passed a lot less (almost as many passes completed in '13 vs thrown in '08). And IMO, Coale seemed to show more ability in a few of those playmaking necessities I mention above.
Plus I suspect as time goes on, with incoming recruits, Stanford is going to get relatively fewer touches rather than more touches.
You must have missed the Miami and BC games. Yard work? Weddings?
I didn't say he had no YAC ability. But if you look at the universe of college receivers, it doesn't stand out.
Don't get me wrong, I like Stanford. But I just don't think he will be drafted given his skill set and looking at the situation between now and 2016.
That's a bold statement to make after just one season for a player that exceeded expectations... I bet if you look at a decent chunk of drafted players a lot of people probably didn't see them as being drafted in their freshman year... Four years is a long time to get good at something.
What's a bold statement? That I don't think he'll be drafted?
Again, I like him. And he was just a r-fr. But I think he has lower ceiling than the 2, 3, or maybe 4 guys coming in. And that's just the 2014 class. I just dont see him as being a top 25 WR, i.e 1st or 2nd team all conference, before he's done.
I see it as a win/win. If I'm wrong, he has a great career at VT. If I'm right, VT is gonna have a number of really good receivers.
The two plays I referenced are two of the best YAC plays I can remember from our receivers. Sure, we might have a lot of guys who catch a pass and run for a while, but most of them were in space and just made the safety miss. Stanford had two plays where he just took over the field, breaking tackles and ankles all the way to the end zone (I know, he didn't score against BC, but he got to the 1).
All I'm trying to say is, he has big-play capability. He wasn't terribly consistent this season, but he was a freshman. He has 3 more years to show the scouts he can play.
I think Cline almost certainly gets drafted, but he's not a wide receiver.
I miss those Maroon jerseys...Sad panda.
I miss the maroon pants.
I miss not wearing pants.........problem solved!
Couple of reasons.
We had better receivers in 2004 than we have now. We also had a QB that took a massive step forward throughout the season, whereas last year, Logan continued the regression that was the trend post-2011. Some would correctly point out that the reasoning behind this is that Randall actually had good QB coaching where Logan was ruined by O'Cain.
Does anyone think any of our underclassmen skill players get drafted in the future? Malleck, Stanford, cline, edmunds, Stanford? Just curious...
Edmunds.
Cline should too...especially since everyone thinks LT3 could go as a TE. Cline is actually playing at the position
Cline will probably get drafted at QB.
Like I said earlier in the thread, I think Stanford has a shot. He's already shown his big-play capability, and he just needs to work on his consistency week-to-week. He was just a freshman this season.