West Virginia Vent Thread

Penalties. No running game. Anemic passing game.

Honeymoon over Pry. Figure it out.

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Honeymoon over Pry.

You provided Fuente every excuse in the book and defended him while he ran the program into the ground. Then the guy who has to pick up all the pieces, his honeymoon is over after 4 games. That doesn't make sense to me at all.

Yeah...I was wrong about Fuente.

Yes and that's fine, but why such a short leash for Pry who is dealing with the fallout?

It's a natural reaction. I got fooled by the last guy and now I'm pretty easily triggered.

I kinda get it, but I also agree with you, Joe. I think he needs a good chunk of time to fix the program. But, he doesn't need to fix the program to fix this particular team. Lots of problems unrelated to program and definitely related to execution.

Would you like Prys with that?

The penalties are really bad. I wonder how much they're having practice refs involved.

Well, they should be having them now.

They've got lots of work to do, and some of it is fixable via coaching.

The penalties are probably the thing I am BY FAR the most concerned about.

I would guess you can work on penalty-free execution, OR you can work on trying to get your offense working. If they had focused on not committing penalties, but the trade off was 100 fewer yards on offense, would we have been happy?

And let's not forget this was a short week. Not sure how much fatigue can lead to penalties, but given our depth problems, the first stringers are probably worn out from lack of backups to spell them in game and the short week.

I think you have to work on both.

What profit you if you make a first down, but lose 15 yards in the next series to penalties?

Okay, but if you gain zero but are penalty free, what does that get you either? They had 5 days. I'm guessing they worked on game plan and offensive plays much more so than error-free execution. Some of the penalties will get better with reps, but again, do you sacrifice reps for the sake of doing the exact same thing to avoid penalties, or on ensuring the offense actually knows the plays?

I'm gonna say it again, given the shit show the roster was in, a bunch of guys are probably playing in new positions (especially/mostly on offense). That means they don't know the plays well, and techniques, so keeping all that in mind while trying to execute penalty free is a lot. Ordinarily, penalties are something you try to fix, I'm just not sure that in this specific case, it really IS the highest priority.

My point is that they're both important. If penalties come at the wrong time, they will cost you the game. You work too hard on the other stuff to give up big yards to penalties.

Sort of like with driving. You have to be able to operate the car, but you also need to obey traffic signals.

But sure, I'd like to see the offense gaining yards.

Let's just admit to ourselves that it's not going to be pretty this year.

Let's just admit to ourselves that it's not going to be pretty this year.

Yeah, I 100% agree with that.

If they had focused on not committing penalties, but the trade off was 100 fewer yards on offense, would we have been happy?

If we'd had zero penalties, but gave up 100 yards, that would still have been a net gain of 32 yards, so... yes?

/s... i think. :-)

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."

I don't think it's a straight addition or subtraction. Some plays are called back and moved, whereas others are instituted after the play. If you take away the whole play, in my scenario, maybe you don't get the positive yards. Even still that's just this game, but the concentration on offensive plays may pay bigger dividends down the road.

I mean, we had fewer penalties in games 2 and 3, so maybe the coaching staff thought it wasn't something they needed to concentrate on. It's hard to tell how the coaches base the priorities. Maybe if games 2 and 3 had had a lot of penalty yards also, that would have been their priority. It's a young, inexperienced offense, there are going to be lots of problems, including inconsistency. It's easy to say what we think should have been fixed after a game, another thing knowing it leading into that week's practice (again, pointing to us doing better on penalties in games 2 and 3).

There's so many things the coaches need to work on for the offense, I'm not going to second guess them. It's just going to be a rough season, no matter how we look at it.

Wait serious question. Is that a thing? Cuz from what I've seen refs could use some practice too.

I'm still figuring this out.

I know the were always at the open scrimmages (and maybe even some practices) I went to during the Beamer era.

Maybe I was being a little curt here. The expectation for this year was to be undermanned but at least demonstrate things are going in the right direction. I thought that was the case before this game.

The penalty yards are an absolute killer and an indication that Pry doesn't have his skiis over him yet. That's to be expected for a first-time head coach but still really disappointing to see.

The goal this year, to me, is game-to-game growth. I don't think we saw that today. I don't mind losing, I mind the way we lost.

The goal this year, to me, is game-to-game growth.

Progress is rarely linear (in any pursuit in life, I've found). Instead of game-to-game improvement, would you be okay if we were much more competent at the end of the season than the beginning? I think that's a bit more measured assessment.

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I don't know if I'm comfortable waiting until the end of the season to have any progress reports, but I do think games might be more volatile. I would rather do season thirds. We are 1/3 of the way through. Do you feel like we are better than where we started?

I think so, but it's not by a large margin.

Would you like Prys with that?

I'd say we're about the same as we were for ODU. Clearly the sloppy play didn't go anywhere.

I was just thinking about this in the context of our team. I know a number of us have talked about incremental improvement, and you bring up non-linear improvement - being substantially better at the end, but not necessarily those game to game improvements. I'm starting to worry that given the lack of depth, a key injury or two could set us back a lot from the improvement we'd hope to see.

Or accelerate it. Forced experience for guys that aren't ready may accelerate the in-game learning ahead of schedule. Either way, we're taking our lumps this year and there's no sugar coating it. What I'm more interested in is how many of the kids on the current roster take those lumps and come back pissed and hungry for this team next season.

Yet our OL has been the same 5 for 99% if the snaps through 4 games.

We put the K in Kwality

Most coaches don't demonstrate real growth until year 2. Take a look at what Matt Campbell and Matt Rhule did in year 1 at Iowa State and Baylor. It wasn't pretty, but they were bowl eligible a season later.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Most coaches have also peaked by like year 2-3.

Free Hugh

Fuente inherited talent. Pry inherited a pile of shit with nicer facilities. There is not one playmaker on offense aside from KK who is still young. I don't remember many Tech offenses in the last couple decades which had such lack of skills and speed. Go into the 2 deep and watch out.

I was recalling the summer article where someone interviewed ACC coaches excluding names and one said there is not one player on that offense that anyone else in ACC/P5 would have recruited. That was exaggerated but I see about 85% truth to it now.

O-line = below average; WR = below average ; TE = average; RB= average to below average ; QB = average. This offense could field a good G5 team. We are relying on Blumerick for peats sake. You can't beat many P5 teams with that offense unless their defense is worse and their offense can't score either.

I can already seen the D improvements. Lot more speed, wiling out to the ball, tackling is better, no more pussy footing around. mentality has changed.

I don't get the penalties either. not a good look regardless. even if your roster sucks.

Honeymoon over? Boy, have I got bad news about what's coming in October...

There's no point in venting. It sucks to lose to an old rival, yes. But we aren't good. Every phase of the game needs to be improved. Fuente cratered us, and a brand new coaching staff has things to figure out. Everyone on staff needs to make some improvements, but I doubt Pry thinks otherwise. He knows. Righting the ship will take a lot longer than four games. Set your expectations low for a while, a year or two, and see what these guys can do and who they can recruit.

Meanwhile, everybody hide your couches.

I'm willing to be patient, but only if I'm confident an actual rebuild is going to take place. We went from the least penalized team in the ACC to the most. We're constantly making boneheaded mistakes. The recruiting class for a first-year staff with the resources we have is terrible. We just layed an egg on national TV against a BAD team. Pry can turn this around, but damn it there's not a lot of reasons to be confident that he will.

Have we considered that maybe the reason for the penalties is that we are so undermanned (talent-wise)? I can see how guys are trying to overcome the talent deficit by cutting corners or being overly aggressive (in a bad way).

Virginian by Birth, Hokie by Choice

I definitely saw a few cases of guys trying to go for the highlight reel and getting burned.

Penalties, I'd like to take a look at, and sort them out into pre-snap and post-snap. Felt like we were getting hit too much with after the play penalties that were a little ticky-tack.

In the stands, the hit by Dax on the QB on 4th down looked textbook. The crowd was pissed when they called roughing the passer.

That said, I am not sure I want to go back and watch the game again to see what the camera's saw.

The crowd may have been pissed, but it was the same call on the same play that went our way in the first half.

If i'm not mistaken, the QB was a WR number 15 and not Daniels. He was live and considered a runner not the QB.
A real embarrassing performance on national TV. Let's move on and change our QB. He is fucking awful.

US Navy Vet

You're sure you want our backup QB? I don't know if I'd be so fired up about that alternative until we've seen him in action.

If we didn't see him in action after 2 or 3 INTs vs. ODU, then you can rest assured that we won't be seeing him at all.

That's what I was saying. Not sure why he was so fired up to bench Wells without seeing Brown in action first.

Pretty sure you are mistaken - it was Daniels.

What I saw on TV (and several replays) was a defender who had a second at most to register that the QB had gotten rid of the ball before making contact. There was simply no way for him to adjust his trajectory. It's the kind of penalty I've hated for as long as I've watched football.

The only alternative would be to play less aggressive on defense, but then that just gives up all the big plays to the offense.

I'm willing to be patient, but only if I'm confident an actual rebuild is going to take place

That's a bit contradictory don't you think?

Fuente can't be blamed for the penalties, the QB draw on 4th and 1, the instance on runs behind G-C-G that haven't done a thing all year, and most especially the total lack of vision by the QB.

And the really bad news is that the talent in the recruiting pipeline doesn't look like things will drastically improve for next season either. Buckle up folks, it's a hard pill to swallow but we might not have even reached the bottom yet.

Remember when the fanbase was discontent with those 10 win seasons?....

Improving recruiting talent also takes time. The current class isn't close to final until December and it's really the 2024 class that I'm looking to for improvements since Pry & Co. will have had enough time to prove their early words with following through.

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I agree. My point is this is a bad team because of the overall talent level, nothing about the 2023 class shows that will be changing.

I'm glad you're optimistic about the 2024 class, those hypothetical players could potentially be contributing in a meaningful way by the 2026 season.

I expected to be 2-2 after September. Thought it would be W's over ODU and Wofford. Sucks to lose to ODU but glad they got the ACC win

Disappointed in the unforced errors and the O-Line's regression from last year, but at the end of the day we all knew it'd be a struggle to get to 6 wins with the current roster.

Pry didn't attack the transfer portal like I thought he would. Hopefully him building for the long term works out.

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

I suspect that portal is gonna be hit hard in the coming months.

I hate to say this, but too many Fu boys Mike Vick gave a speech and it looked like Fu's boys.

I semi-agree with the regression point. They are better than they currently play. However, it is a totally brand new system for them.

Now the 3rd side of that is that they are athletes that are in the top 5% of athletes. They should be picking this up quicker than it seems they are

Warning- Filter lost.

"Look at this... This is just spectacular.... These people are losing their minds"

I think the short week really impacted the team and coaching staff. If you think about it, we had 8 days after ODU before BC, 7 days after BC before Wofford and only 5 days here. Pry said before the Wofford game that they still hadn't figured out how they were going to handle the short week and I think the lost preparation really affected the team. They weren't as sharp and they were very undisciplined.

And I'm not going to argue with that. I have no doubt that the short week played into it. But they've had all spring/summer/camp to learn the system and how to run this blocking scheme. I'm not saying they should be the best OL in the country, I'm saying they probably shouldn't look as bad as they do...

Warning- Filter lost.

"Look at this... This is just spectacular.... These people are losing their minds"

It looks to me like its been harder for them to unlearn the old techniques and their heads are still tying their feet up when run blocking (as Coach Foster used to say). I hope it clicks soon for them.

This is why a lot of us were expecting <6 wins this season. We have one 4-star player on offense. The defense is looking the best it has in 3 years. It's going to take time.

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Tough to make 3 stops on one possession

While I agree with you in applauding the D effort....Let's also agree that the D isn't at the level of talent it needs to be either. I think they are getting better coaching (which is expected with Pry as HC), but I don't look at this D and see anything close to the level of talent we are used to seeing at VT.

For me, as a Hokie fan since the 1980s....it's particularly painful to watch our D getting gashed the way it did tonight by WVU. We aren't even talking about a top 25 team. WVU ran the ball for 8-15 yards a clip. And we were on skates out there. It's not good on D either, friends.

This team (including coaching) has a monumental rebuild ahead of it. And that is going to take many years.

Virginian by Birth, Hokie by Choice

Yea, I agree. The team has 9 bluechip players, 7 on defense, 1 on offense, and 1 out for the season. Talent level is low.

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We lost a game that I didn't have much confidence in winning.

The bar for this season was measurable improvement.

Defensively, we have improved significantly over last year. Too many penalties for sure, but we at least look like a competent unit.

Offensively, we have not improved in any way.
- we have nothing that even resembles a coherent strategy.
-We cannot run the ball at all.
-Wells is inaccurate and turnover prone
- three more pre-snap penalties tonight. If you're not going to block anyone, the least you could do is not put the offense farther behind the sticks.

The offensive staff needs to get their shit together and start showing some progress, or start packing their shit.

Yo we suck. It's not much worth sugar costing it. We fucking suck

I met more nice WVU fans tonight than I did VT and guess what. I'm filing a complaint

The bar for this season was measurable improvement.

No it wasn't - and if you thought this was the case, you're expectations were high IMO - the bar was to build culture and repair relationships in the state so we have recruiting pipelines in the future. It's year zero.

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Pry can do that AND get his guys to commit less than 100 yards in penalties in a game. I don't think rebuilding relationships interferes with a disciplined team.

Would you like Prys with that?

The penalties were an issue that he needs to fix. But I don't think that's why we lost - we lost because we couldn't run the ball. Without the penalties, our chances of winning this game improve, but (given that we couldn't run the ball or control the clock) we probably would still lose.

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Most teams that have over 100 yards of penalties in a game do not win. We've done it twice in four games. That is ridiculous. Fixing that has to be priority #1.

"That man was violating a city ordinance, and I was just doing my duty to enforce it." - Mike Curtis

So, it's unreasonable to expect the team to play better as the year goes along?

Sorry, but that's asinine.

That's not at all what I said. I believe that:

  • Given the state of our program, it is unreasonable to expect a new coach to come in and instantly improve the on-the-field product (compared to the last coach). Single season turnaround are VERY rare, as I discussed in this previous thread.
  • Progress isn't typically linear - We won't see an improvement every game, but I'm looking for an improvement from the beginning of the season, at the end of the season.

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Sure but creating a culture and establishing recruiting Pipelines are both off-field issues/goals.

On the field, the goal should be that the team is progressing and playing better football as the year moves along. To not have that as an expectation makes no sense, no matter whether you're a national championship contender or a bottom-dweller.

Basic things, like penalties and run blocking should show improvement. Thus far they have not.

Again, I refuse to believe that our Personnel is so incredibly inept that we cannot field an even mediocre Offensive Line.

Moreover, the one thing that will help more than anything in creating culture and improving recruiting would be....winning and having compelling on-field product to sell to recruits.

Our offense right now isn't compelling to anyone who has the skills to be a Difference Maker at this level.

On the field, the goal should be that the team is progressing and playing better football as the year moves along. To not have that as an expectation makes no sense, no matter whether you're a national championship contender or a bottom-dweller.

I'm not communicating well - I agree that the team should improve over the course of the season. However, that doesn't mean that it's going to be an instant improvement over last year's team. My understanding of HokieFLA's comment was that he expected 'measurable' improvement over last season - that may not happen 4 games in. It may take us a full season (or more) to get there.

Again, I refuse to believe that our Personnel is so incredibly inept that we cannot field an even mediocre Offensive Line.

Go look at our roster on 247. We only have 4 upperclassmen on our 3-deep for OL. Just a handful of recruits >.8500 (one of which is Dax's lil bro who switched positions). I'm not saying it's not a coaching issue, but it is definitely (in part) a personnel issue.

If you still 'refuse' to believe this, I don't know what to tell you...

Moreover, the one thing that will help more than anything in creating culture and improving recruiting would be....winning and having compelling on-field product to sell to recruits.

Our offense right now isn't compelling to anyone who has the skills to be a Difference Maker at this level.

Recruits don't care about the on field product. They care about getting to the NFL, relationships with coaches, and getting a bag. There have been plenty of <.500 teams that have landed great recruiting classes.

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If you still 'refuse' to believe this, I don't know what to tell you...

Kansas. The Football team of Kansas University rushed for 200 yds and 5+ ypc against the same WVU team that had us under 2 YPC for the majority of the night.

Find near anyone on Kansas OL that is over .8500.

Talent is a problem but our technique is piss-poor (smarter OL minds than me have pointed this out repeatedly in his film reviews) and we continue to hamstring ourselves with presnap penalties. These are Coaching issues that should have been drilled into submission and better by this point. Period.

And Yes, Recruits absolutely care about winning. Bama, OSU and Clemson are testaments to that. Playing on big stages and against the best competition is part in parcel to getting the most NFL exposure and attention. Winning plays a huge role in bringing Programs the money that they use for their Bribes (...I mean very well-deserved NIL payments). You can't ignore that.

When you go 4-8 your "culture" is losing. All the NIL in the world isn't going to sustain that.

Kansas. The Football team of Kansas University rushed for 200 yds and 5+ ypc against the same WVU team that had us under 2 YPC for the majority of the night.

Find near anyone on Kansas OL that is over .8500.

Let's talk Kansas - first of all, this is Leipold's second year at Kansas, not his first. It's not the same. Secondly, Leipold is a proven head coach who has turned around 2 programs. There's a reason I was mentioning his name as a potential hire for us in 2020. Frankly, what he's doing is amazing, and I don't think (m)any other coaches could pull that off.

EDIT: FInally watched Kansas and did some reading on their scheme (this is my favorite article I read)- basically, they're running a modern take on the 'Wide Zone' which is similar to the triple. The scheme relies on smaller, mobile lineman and a lot of tempo. It's a unique offense that (again, like the triple) is tough to plan for.

As an added bonus, Kansas is even running the triple option out of the shotgun.

If Bowen & Co want to run a smash mouth offense featuring a downhill running attack, they won't be able to rely on undersized linemen. Does that mean that there's no room for improvement for this OL? Of course not. It just means that Leipold took a job where the personnel more closely fit his offensive scheme than what Pry/Bowen inherited.

TL;DR - we could run the triple and accumulate a ton of rushing yards (like Kansas), or we could run a downhill running attack (like Pry wants to). The latter will take more time.

Talent is a problem but our technique is piss-poor (smarter OL minds than me have pointed this out repeatedly in his film reviews)

I've dropped multiple comments that basically amount to 'how much of these issues are talent/execution vs how the technique is coached' and the response is basically 'too soon to tell': Maybe that changed after last night.

I'll add that, the fact that we're playing 5-7 OL all game should tell you something about our talent level. It means the coaches don't trust the 2/3 deep. Playing every snap leads to fatigue which leads to sloppiness. I'm not sure how much you can do to out coach that.

we continue to hamstring ourselves with presnap penalties

The penalties are an issue. I can't argue against this. I'm not sure if it's a fatigue thing or what, and I don't know how you 'coach away' penalties, but something has to happen. Figure it out.

Regarding the coaching staff in general... look, I'm not saying this staff is the chosen one and they can do no wrong - I'm just saying that they're working with what they got, and that ain't much. That means there's little room for error anywhere - on special teams, on clock management, when it comes to injuries/fatigue, penalties, etc. We hired an inexperienced staff, which means there are going to be errors, and because the talent level is low, there won't be a way to cover those mistakes.

Going back to my original comment - I want to see growth (from players and coaches) over the course of the season. That's the on-the-field goal for this season. I know this season will be rocky. I expect inconsistencies. I'm willing to be patient and see where we are at the end of the season. Then, I want to see what this staff does with the roster this off season, when they have more time and no more yearly scholarship cap.

Realistically, I'm looking for a small on the field improvement this year, and a pretty big jump in recruiting (including transfer portal) next year. We'll see what happens.

Yes, Recruits absolutely care about winning. Bama, OSU and Clemson are testaments to that.

I'm telling you, winning is a distance 4th/5th of what recruits care about. Bama/OSU/Clemson don't attract recruits because they win; they win because they attract recruits. They attract recruits because they can sell those recruits on getting to the NFL.

Playing on big stages and against the best competition is part in parcel to getting the most NFL exposure and attention.

Big stage has nothing to do with getting to the NFL. It's 2022 - if an NFL scout wants tape on you, they can get it in 5 minutes. Josh Allen, Trey Lance, etc never played on big stages.

I will grant you that the 'iron sharpens iron' mentality is a factor here - kids want to play against the best players in practice so they can get better.

That said, at the end of the day, you need players to buy into a vision - Texas could sell that vision at 4-8. UNC could sell that vision at 6-7. Tennessee can sell that vision at . Nebraska managed to get top 25 classes despite five straight 4 win seasons. Dabo sold a vision to Sammy Watkins and Tahj Boyd after a 6-7 season. You gotta sell the vision.

Winning plays a huge role in bringing Programs the money... ...You can't ignore that.

Yes... especially at VT, no one wants to give money when we're down, just when we're up. I get it. Can't argue here.

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Playing every snap leads to fatigue which leads to sloppiness. I'm not sure how much you can do to out coach that.

Except that 9 of our 15 penalties (including 2-of-3 false starts) were in the first half. And of the 6 penalties in the 2nd half, only two were on the O: the 3rd false start and a holding call that preceded the pick-6. And it's similar on defense: two DPIs and a face mask occurred in the first half, well before fatigue or frustration would have been issues, and the third DPI was right after halftime. IMO, the penalty issue isn't a fatigue problem.

Yes, this team has a serious talent deficit. But it's also a sloppy, undisciplined team. One of those issues can be addressed during the season; the other will require multiple recruiting/portal cycles to fix.

That said, at the end of the day, you need players to buy into a vision [...] You gotta sell the vision.

100%. Hopefully the effort put forth by Pry and his staff to reestablish relationships across the state will pay dividends, because that is an absolute requirement if we want to climb out of this hole.

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."

The fatigue and penalties argument certainly supports the D. They were on the field for 73 plays (vs 56 for our O) and almost 40:00.

We put the K in Kwality

I feel like game to game progression would imply that all of our opponents are equal, or at least on their own linear progression.

Look, this rebuild is gonna hurt. It's gonna suck. It's what Fuente left us. But the D can play, and it looks like players are tackling and willing to scrap for this coaching staff.

We have glimmers of hope, and that's what we have to cling to this year while we struggle. It's gonna take time but I believe in Coach Pry

VB born, class of '14

O-Line and D-Lines got dominated. End of story. Time to recruit some big old goons.

We gave WV 7 1st downs on penalties (so far), but we are celebrating getting a first down while we are down 3 scores in the 4th...

My disappointment comes from the regression of the defense and the stupid penalties, as well as Grant Wells is not the QB for this team. I struggle to believe that the other options would be as detrimental as he is. Throws into heavy coverage, every throw is with 100% power. Not to mention disappointing offensive blocking and weak defense. We will compete against the lower half of the conference, but there is a full cycle of players to go throw before we know if this coaching staff knows what they are doing

If you can't handle my shit posts, you don't deserve my memes

This tweet probably deserves it's own thread. But it makes sense here too.

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2025's our year!


"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

The 2025 class is hopefully good. Then those players won't really contribute until... 2026-27

*bigger sigh*

We lost to a horrible odu, beat a really horrible BC and beat a really really horrible FCS team that hadn't scored a point since last season 27-7; what did you expect?
Gonna be a long road back and Pry deserves more than 4 games to get there

uva - the taint of the ACC

The road is long, but at least we are seeing progress on one side of the ball.

Offensively, we put up barely half of the yards that Kansas did on WVU.

For all the "talent apologists"...are we going to go with the argument that Kansas has more offensive Talent than us??

I have tons of trouble believing that. I don't have any particular trouble believing that they have a much more competent Offensive Coordinator.

I don't think it's a stretch to say we have a weaker offense than Kansas. We have too few difference makers. Look at WVU they had a whole rotation of backs who played well. Their OL was far better and their RBs ran really well after contact where as our running game was ridiculously ineffective. King is nice in space but our OL really struggles to generate space and tonight they got manhandled. Pass blocking wasn't bad but wells missed some gimme throws that really hurt us.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Agreed, not a stretch. And Leipold is in his second season. That's a bigger factor too. He had more time to coach em up and get things the way he wants it.

Honestly the only thing I expect of Pry to fix and fix quickly is the penalties. That is too damn many even for a team with less talent than anyone else.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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I hope he can fix more than just that, but I think it's fair to expect him to fix at least that.

I'm not expecting many wins this year. But we have a chance to beat UVA ONLY if he fixes that.

The other fixes needed are personal in nature or long term teaching/fixing. Maybe some play calling shifts but every team that loses or even wins close games thinks that, look no further back than 10 win season but awful play calling by Stiney.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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In the two games we lost penalties were an issue, and in the games we won, they weren't. I think it's slightly more complicated than that in the sense that the players might be pressing more when they're being beat and that's what the penalties are about. But it is interesting to think about.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

Except we had 7 in the first quarter.

To clarify I mean getting beat physically, not necessarily just on the scoreboard. It's easy for example, to not commit PI when you're able to out athlete your receiver.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

Could also be that they are tired (physically and mentally) and losing focus, thus getting sloppy

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Have you broken out the penalties by quarter? It didn't seem to be an end-of-the-game only problem...

We're coming off a short week. But it would be interesting to do that analysis and see if certain penalties were more prevalent at certain points of the game.

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We had 7 for 35 yards in the first quarter. I suspect most of those were pre-snap penalties.

I count 7 total penalties for both teams in the first.

For VT, I see:

  • PI for 15 yards
  • 12 on the field for 5 yards
  • Face mask for 5 yards
  • False start for 5 yards

2nd quarter

  • PI - 15 yards
  • False start - 5 yards
  • Delay of game - 5 yards (this was a weird one... we thought the clock was going to reset, but it didn't?)
  • Defensive holding (on a punt return) - 10 yards

3rd quarter

  • PI - 15 yards
  • False start - 5 yards
  • Roughing the passer - 15 yards

In the 4th quarter:

  • Illegal use of hands for 14 yards
  • Holding for 10 yards
  • Personal foul for 15 yards

The procedural penalties seem pretty even spread out. 45 yards on PIs and 30 on personal fouls is... woof. 5 pre-snap penalties for 25 yards total.

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Thanks for the summary. I think I saw a graphic that said 35 yards.

Correct, the clock should have restarted on the delay of game but the officials messed that one up.

The roughing the passer looked bogus from the stands, it looked like Dax perfectly timed the hit. For those that watched on TV, was it a legit penalty?

It was the same as the one called on WVU in the first half. Dax got him a little high and just a bit late.

I knew what the call was going to be as soon as the announcers said there was a flag thrown.

Thanks (?) for the summary. Just ugly. By my recollection, 4 of those occurred on plays where the defense would have gotten off the field. This team cannot give up that many additional opportunities to opponents.

which makes those penalties even worse imo

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

It's refreshing to see you be objectively critical about our HC

Free Hugh

This was the perfect storm. Green coaching staff, short week, not enough talent.

Pry was still trying to figure out his short week routine and the coaches didn't have the full week to install a game plan. I'm sure some of that resulted in the undisciplined plays we saw.

Yeah, this loss sucks, but it's just one loss. We will have to see what improvements happen before the next game.

- green staff
- short week
- lack of talent...


- rivalry game against (IMO) best opponent yet
- Thursday night hype atmosphere.

I can attest to the energy difference at field level being huge on Thursday night vs Saturday. And that's just as an MV. A lot of green kids out there. Pry even still looks like he is adjusting to the whole entrance atmosphere (which ESPN really hyped up too).

Not saying any of that is an excuse. I was prepared for a drubbing personally. My Dawg spouse then cursed me with Hope - he should have known better, given their rocky relationship 1981-2021.

As TV viewers we wondered why we kept trying to go up the middle when their dline was obviously just too big to break through. I wanted to see us get at Daniels a lot - the guy isn't the hardiest QB in the game. But we just looked undersized on both sides of the ball. We need some linemen that can make those jersey numbers look too small. How we get them in this era, I don't know. A few big programs are essentially farm teams for the NFL at this point.

'89 Hokie alum, former staff, former faculty. Living in Jawja - a rescue Dawg married to a Fauxkie. Navigating the curious spaces between the ACC and the SEC since 2009.

Wells was our best offensive player today. WRs did a decent job (esp first half). Running game was comical (18 carries for 35 yards!). OL needs to be fixed immediately. If you can't run block, call more passing plays (my comment in the game thread I said the OL just stands up and waits on running plays...they don't engage with the defense...yet on passing plays they shift and move). I just can't understand if the OL isn't executing your scheme, then adjust (call different plays)...or change personnel (our starting 5 has played almost every snap this year...Schlick is the only one who has played for injuries). I give the D a pass...they didn't play great, but you cannot be on the field for that long (for four straight games) and not get worn down (remember we have no depth). Think if we had any semblance of an offense the D would play better (be rested, more aggressive, etc.)...and have more confidence.

We put the K in Kwality

The running issue feels like the biggest one by a mile. If we can't run the ball, we can't keep ToP close. If we can't keep ToP close, we need the offense to score in the air, otherwise the defense is going to get gassed. The passing game was the best we've seen all season. But it's nowhere near good enough to sustain long drives without a running game. So the defense got gassed. And the second half happened.

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Yeah...that's my thinking. Just wonder why we don't adjust our scheme to short passes/screens/reverses (sorry) to provide "running" plays to keep the safeties from crowding the box. Then work more middle-deep passes when you get one-on-one matchups. If you're going to be hell-bent on running the ball, change the personnel or the blocking scheme, because this group just ain't doing it.

We put the K in Kwality

It's a good question. Would love to see some screens and whatnot.

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There was a good swing pass to King that worked well in the third quarter. They tried it again and Wells made a poor throw to King that he couldn't bring in. Didn't see it again after that.

i worked in the 2nd quarter too.

I kept asking my TV why we weren't getting the ball to king in other ways given that there was clearly no room in the middle

That RB block then release was open most of the first half as well as an outlet. I think Wells was thinking more downfield, but sometimes you have to take what the defense gives you. He made a couple of tight throws into double coverage, but didn't see others that were more open.

Safeties weren't really crowding the box. They were dropping a ton in coverage. Their line just abused ours, plus our run scheme is basically create a flat, unmoving wall in the middle and have Holston charge right at it.

Free Hugh

I tuned in late when it was 7-3 and WVU was about to attempt the field goal to make it 7-6. Figured we'd hold the ball until halftime. Then we didn't and WVU scored a TD in 50 seconds. Then I went to bed.

Anyway, I saw the score this morning and this makes sense:

Very much agree with this. The difference between passing in the first half and passing in the second half in my eyes was the lack of play action. As soon as we demonstrated we couldn't run the ball, their defense adjusted and we couldn't move shit. A lot more three and outs and/or 6 play 2 minute drives. The defense can't hold up forever against that offense when they're on the field 40 minutes. Wells was 11/18 in the first half with a TD, 5/17 in the second half.

Granted when we did get a short positive passing play we'd follow it up with a hold, a false start, or a snap infraction (I swear, Parker Clements and Johnny Jordan have to have at least half the penalties on the OL right?).

Pry said we didn't play complementary football, which is a bit of a gross understatement. The thing that frustrates me is for as bad as the offense was we were a roughing the passer penalty away from starting the fourth quarter down 6 with the ball around our own 35 yard line. That is not insurmountable.

I don't know what the changes are, or if there is one that can fix this (penalties for sure would help), but I'm thinking if we suck hard against UNC and Pitt, then it might be time to play the kids. No reason to be redshirting guys like Chaplin and Braelin Moore with the portal these days.

I'm certainly not jumping off the Pry bandwagon but OP isn't wrong to say the honeymoon is over IMO. A honeymoon is the height of excitement, idk about you all but I'm not exactly excited at this present moment. Reality has set in pretty quickly that this is going to be a very bad team for the foreseeable future. It's fair to say the honeymoon phase is over

I feel like most of us knew this.

But yeah, I guess when you see it the reality sets in.

I see what you're saying, but if the point is to bring out the pitchforks for Pry, which is what some people have implied, than it's a bad take. During the offseason only the most optimistic of us were aiming for 7 maybe 8 wins, with the majority opinion being that getting to 6 was going to be tough. It's like everyone's forgetting this now that the season has actually started and we have to experience actually losing those games.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

I think the pitch forks are really out for Bowen and Rudolph. Our run game is inexcusable and is probably the biggest reason for our failure right now.

Free Hugh

The pitchforks need to go away.

Its 4 games into the season and they're coaching a bunch of players that would struggle for playing time in 90% of the rest of the Power 5 schools. The hard truth right now is that it doesn't matter the quality of coaching we have because we don't have the talent to be a good team.

This is my school
This is home

Tell that to Kansas

Kansas in year 2 with Leipold. In Year 1, they went 2-10, with wins over FCS South Dakota and 4-8 Texas.

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Rudolph gets a huge pass from me. He is dealing with a lot of freshmen in the 2 deep. He is one of the BEST O line coaches in the Country. It will take a year or two to get his recruits in as well as teach them the new blocking scheme.

Then he needs to realize his shit isn't working right now and adapt his scheme. That's what a good coach does

Free Hugh

Or you take your lumps for a year which is clearly what's going to happen

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

We took our lumps waiting for Fuente to make changes and it didn't happen. Our talent next season is going to be even worse. Do we take our lumps again?

How long do you suggest we take our lumps before we start expecting our coaching staff to adjust?

Free Hugh

Fuente proved himself unwilling to make changes when it was clear changes needed to be made. It's unfair on Pry to assume he won't make a change on the staff if one needs to be made. It's also unfair to expect a total overhaul of The Plan, if The Plan is three years, you shouldn't want the staff to rup it up after 4 games.

Rudolph has his work cut out for him because the roster is bad and pretty much everyone who was actually paying attention said so.

I hope and want to see tangible improvement from what we see now by the end of the season -- whether that's different personnel executing the scheme, the same personnel executing the scheme better, or a different scheme, the performance needs to improve.

If Pry is convinced Rudolph is the guy but the personnel is the problem, let's see what the portal brings in the offseason. If again, no serious improvement after even a second year, Pry should probably cut bait.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

What scheme do you propose adapting given an incredible lack of talent?

I'd argue it's better to use the scheme you want, so you can get the players used to it. Unless you're adapting a scheme to players with a lot of talent where you're likely to see big results because of your adaptation, why would you just do something different where you're still not likely to see much, if any improvement?

Probably back to zone blocking

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I'm not sure how true that is. There's gotta be a give and take between 'this is the scheme I want (and know how) to coach' vs 'this is what the existing roster is comfortable with/capable of running'. If you want to run a specific offensive line scheme, how much do you adjust it to fit your personal vs how much do you ask/force your personnel to adjust to your scheme? What's going to get you to your desired end state faster?

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I don't think it's hyperbolic to say that VT's best years are in the rear view. Being stuck in the ACC and simply not having the resources to compete in the era of NIL puts VT at a massive disadvantage.

I just don't think we'll ever reach the levels we did under Beamer. I don't think we'll ever hire another Bud Foster. Pry may be a good coach but he's unproven as a HC and he's hired unproven coordinators. He'll get 4 or 5 years but the deck is stacked against him. Recruiting will likely determine his fate. I'm not sure VT can recruit well enough to win at the level fans expect. When we move on from Pry, which is an inevitability, where do we go next? Likely an even more obscure and unproven coach that we hope is lightning in a bottle. The odds are low that VT will ever get back to the top 25. IIWII

Onward and upward

IIWII and man, does it hurt.

Virginian by Birth, Hokie by Choice

Yeah it hurts. It makes me sick that the last game we'll play against wvu was the worst team we've had in probably 30 years. And we may never play them again. The black diamond is in the wrong home indefinitely. ๐Ÿ˜ช๐Ÿคฎ

Onward and upward

Dump Liberty, ODU, whoever we have to and replace them with WVU. This is an old rivalry that should not die. Especially not while we lose our regular matchup with Miami.

'03 was really bad. With a LOT more talent.

We Are The Virginia Tech Hokies...And We Play Football!

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**Chicken Hill Social Club

The odds are low that VT will ever get back to the top 25.

What does that even mean?

We all knew, or at least SHOULD have known, that there is a lot of real work to do here.

Yeah, VT won't be in the top 25 this year. But we have to give this a LOT more time than some folks seem willing to do.

what it means is that in the ACC, and with our current donor contributions, we just don't have the resources to keep up in the arms race that is college football. We're not going to be able to win recruiting battles for the best players because we can't offer the same deals that more well resourced programs can offer. Without talent, we're not going to be able to compete with the best teams. The ACC's awful TV deal and VT's lackluster donor base are going to hold VT back in a big way. Before recruiting sites really took off Beamer was able to find a bunch of "diamonds in the rough" in his own backyard. But now everyone knows about the top talent in the state and teams that can afford to offer those kids huge deals are going to get that talent. College football isn't really regional anymore. 18 year old kids are going to go where the money is. That's just a fact. VT spent a ton of time during the glory years in the top 25. We finished in the top-10 a handful of times under Beamer. I think those days are in the past and I doubt very much that VT will ever be able to replicate that. College football has changed and the very few advantages that a small town football school had are now pretty much gone. VT is going to have a hard time getting back to the standard that Beamer set for a number of reasons but chief among them is that we just can't compete with the SEC and B1G teams. We don't have the resources to keep up. We might win a handful of recruiting battles but we won't win enough to build a roster that can run with the top teams. It's just not in the cards for us anymore.

Onward and upward

I can't stand this diamond in the rough narrative. It is disingenuous. Here are a quick couple highlights:

Kevin Jones was the #1 recruit in the country.

Macho Harris was the 39th best recruit in the country.

Bryan Randall and D Hall were rated the first and second best Virginia players.

Eddie Royal was the second best player in Virginia.

Ru was the second best player in Virginia and 40th best in the country

LT3 was the second best player in Virginia and 52nd in the country. David Wilson was 6th in VA and still #90 in the country.

Tim Settle was 3rd in the state, 108 in the country.

Sure we got some underrated guys, but the notion that Beamer didn't win some top tier recruits is ridiculous

Free Hugh

The thing is we need both, and lately out prized recruits don't pan out or transfer, and our developmental prospects aren't developing.

Sure we've had some developmental successes but not nearly enough. Even some of our better players currently could be so better if they had consistent coaching for the last 5 years.

The one area that did succeed in my opinion was the offensive line under Vice, but clearly that hasn't totally translated to Rudolph's system.

it's less about the "diamond in the rough" part than it is about the fact that when Beamer was recruiting in the 90s and early aughts he didn't have as much competition. The advent of Hudl, among other things, has made players' access to bigger programs much easier (and vice versa). The top rated players that Beamer could snag in state were easier for him to get because he wasn't battling FSU, Bama, OSU, PSU etc for those recruits. But now, everyone in the nation is just a click away from anyone else. It's much easier for the bigger programs to come into the state and take the top talent.

Onward and upward

Sure, agree to some extent. It has gotten easier with technology and resources. But not like Penn State wasn't hard after Kevin Jones. Top teams have always gone after the top players.

I think your point would have more of an effect on the kids that you flush your roster out with. Kids today that we consider low 4* or high 3*.

Free Hugh

I think your point would have more of an effect on the kids that you flush your roster out with. Kids today that we consider low 4* or high 3*.

Assuming you meant 'flesh out' but interesting typo lol.

From the 2018 VT-uva game-"This is when LEGENDS are made!"

I guess I've always thought it was flush out, same as being flush with talent. Or like when you make something flush, you're making it even with the rest.

Free Hugh

From Merriam-Webster website :

To flesh out something is to give it substance, or to make it fuller or more nearly complete. To flush out something is to cause it to leave a hiding place, e.g., "The birds were flushed out of the tree." It can also be used figuratively, as in "flush out the truth."

Guess you COULD use flush out if you think the talent is already there but 'hiding' lol.

From the 2018 VT-uva game-"This is when LEGENDS are made!"

I was dealing with the top level admins during our "good years"... and it was an uneasy thing for them to accept football becoming so prominent. Snide remarks about not becoming "a football school". To be seen at games, tailgating? Pearl-clutching. Under Torgersen it was a little different - he'd stop by the band's practices to watch, even in the rain. But the Steger years it was a bit rebellious to openly enjoy football if you were an academic. They never wanted us to have high-profile athletics programs (especially more money coming in earmarked for sports than academics or infrastructure). Maybe it's changed since I left, but I doubt it. We don't have a donor base anything like the big programs either.

That said, we're far from alone. A college sport with about 6 Goliaths and 120ish David's isn't interesting or sustainable. Question is, can/will VT get out in front of whatever solution that comes out of all these changes?

'89 Hokie alum, former staff, former faculty. Living in Jawja - a rescue Dawg married to a Fauxkie. Navigating the curious spaces between the ACC and the SEC since 2009.

Good way to look at it.

Poorly coached. 15 penalties for 132 yards AT HOME. WVU gets their largest ever win in Lane. Poor start to recruiting, and putting that pathetic performance on display won't do us any favors in that department.

I'm starting to think maybe it was a bad idea to hire a head coach with no HC experience and coordinators with no coordinating experience.

That's a fair concern. I'm actually curious - what other "known" programs (whatever that means) have hired a first time HC in the last 15 years? I love Pry's passion and love for VT. But let's be honest, Interim HC Price also had that... it takes much more to compete at the elite level we fans desire to be.

I'll give Pry time, don't get me wrong. But, let's be honest and say that he's a 1st time HC in the P5. There's a chance he doesn't develop into a good one, let alone an elite one.

Virginian by Birth, Hokie by Choice

Off the top of my head:

OU - Lincoln Riley
Arkansas - Sam Pittman
UGA - Kirby
USC - Clay Helton
Colorado - Mel Tucker
SCar - Shane Beamer
ND - Marcus Freeman
OSU - Ryan Day
UW - Jimmy Lake
Miami - Manny Diaz

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You forgot Dabo Sweeney at Clemson.

Pitt - Chryst & Narduzzi
Oregon - Lanning, Kelly, & Helfrich
Tenn - Pruitt
Florida - Muschamp
Oklahoma - Venables
Baylor - Aranda

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Charlie Weiss at ND.

The number of downvotes you received is comical. You'd assessment is fair. Will the coaches get it together? I hope. But so far the things they should be able to coach (discipline) have not gone well

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

The penalties were incredibly frustrating.

The offense was getting separation from guys like Moss, Lofton, and Smith early. When WVU started sitting back in 2hi that should have opened up things over the middle of the field. We have got to figure out how to make those adjustments and take what the defense gives us. However, there is a lack of talent on this offense that is also in play. That means we need to be smarter schematically to take what the defense gives us. I'm not sure what we need to, or can, change in the running game with the offensive line, but we need to figure out something that works. Keshawn King is the proven playmaker in this offense, and we might need to start getting creative in regards to getting the ball into his hands.

The defense, even tonight, looks the best it has since that last-gasp run from Foster in the middle of 2019. They need to clean up the penalties. That can be fixed with better discipline.

This rebuild is going to take time, but we are luckily about to hit an offseason without the 25 initial counter limit for bringing in new players. We will likely need to take advantage of that via the portal and bring in everybody that this staff thinks can help rebuild this roster sooner than later. Roster turnover is coming. I hope we manage to keep the young guys who are showing some promise around to see better days in Blacksburg.

I'm not happy right now, I'm not angry, but I'm feeling some of the hopelessness any fan feels while watching their team struggle both on the field and knowing that there probably is a limited number of adjustments that can be made to make things better during the current season. However, I am not going to turn on this staff right out of the gate. This is not like the situation the roster was in when we hired Fuente. He inherited a roster with plenty of high level P5 and NFL players on both sides of the ball. Pry did not inherit a roster with Tim Settle, Tremaine and Rell Edmunds, Woody Baron, Nigel Williams, Ricky Walker, Isaiah Ford, Bucky Hodges, Cam Phillips, Greg Stroman, Adonis Alexander, Brandon Facyson, Chuck Clark, Wyatt Teller, and a proven 1000yd back in Travon McMillian.

There's a lot of work to be done, but as long as the guys keep playing hard and trying to make football in Blacksburg what it used to be, I will continue watching and supporting these players.

To your point...King had 6 carries and only 3 catches. If he is your best weapon you have to get him more touches (20) be it hand offs, pitches, screens or wheel routes...running him into the backs of OLs 6 times doesn't seem like a good usage.

We put the K in Kwality

We're three games in. It's going to take more than that to figure out this offense.

It will definitely take more than three but I wish I didn't feel that cold chill as I recognize, time and again, that lineup to run the ball on 4th and 1 right up the middle into the teeth of the opposing defense. The whispers of expected outcomes...

Practicing our motto, ut prosim, or, "that I may serve," is imperative in recognizing what it means to be part of the Hokie family.

When your "expected outcomes" are <1 ypc and you need 1+ yard...maybe try a different play.

We put the K in Kwality

Wow this is an absolutely brutal post for reminding me how much more talented the roster used to be. Fu really Fu'ed us

Hokie Club member since 2017

Glad to see some sanity in here.

Losing sucks. We all want to win and it's frustrating when you can see glimpses in the game and feel like you can win.

I didn't think we'd win but the penalties which gave them first downs were frustrating as hell and felt like they gave them the game.

We all knew it would be a bad year. Can't get really angry when what we all thought would happen is happening.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

Down two scores with 7 minutes and you're still trying to run the ball up the gut.

4th down in easy field goal range and you're trying a QB sneak with a line that hasn't pushed for more than a yard.

But it's the constant, stupid, drive extending/ruining penalties that are so demoralizing as a fan. I can take if my boys are just not good enough to win. But that happened against ODU and we had 3 weeks to fix it. So am I "confident it will be fixed" in-season? Nope.

It blows my mind that a line with guys this size can't pick up a yard, it's truly pathetic. Rudolph should be on a short leash.

Bob: What would ya say ya do here?

Brad: I already told you! I iron out the minutiae so Justin doesn't have to. I have people skills dammit! What the hell is wrong with you people?

It blows my mind that a line with guys this size can't pick up a yard, it's truly pathetic.

Our line just isn't good. I know you want to the line to be able to pick up a yard at will, but remember, the other team has D1 athletes too who also want to stop that from happening.

WVU's DL has a ton of experience and depth. Here's a preseason piece on them. Athlon also spoke highly of their DL.

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This is the worst take I have read in this thread, let's put a proven oline coach on a short leash? The oline is 100% Vice's guys, once Rudolph was hired, he didn't find a portal lineman he thought was an upgrade so we are rolling with what we have. Of all the coaches on offense, Rudolph is the one with the longest least.

1-0 every week

Yeah, our highest paid assistant with a long track record at having good/great lines, putting guys in the NFL, getting 5 star talent, and it's a position that players take the longest to develop. Putting him on a short leash is an unhinged take at best.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

All I have to say is this OL is really bad. The worst I have seen since becoming a VT fan in 1997. The recruiting priority should be on OL that can actually run block. Not spread offense, draw kids.

We used to have OL that made guys like Cedric Humes look like Walter Payton. No offense to Cedric, he was a Hokie grinder through and through, but not the most talented RB to come through blacksburg.

Bob: What would ya say ya do here?

Brad: I already told you! I iron out the minutiae so Justin doesn't have to. I have people skills dammit! What the hell is wrong with you people?

What's crazy is Rudolph was the strongest assistant coach hire on paper.

Joe, he better sack up and earn it quick. The OL looks like trash.

Bob: What would ya say ya do here?

Brad: I already told you! I iron out the minutiae so Justin doesn't have to. I have people skills dammit! What the hell is wrong with you people?

I mean when you pull in recruiting classes that rank in the bottom 5 of the P5 for 2 or 3 years straight, you can't be surprised when something like the OL looks like absolute shit on the field even after bringing in one of the best position coaches in the country.

This is my school
This is home

Just look at how long it took FSU to fix their OL issues. Those issues started in 2015/16? Their line is finally competent for the first time in forever.

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Think about this...BC is the worst OL we have seen (been said it's worst in NCAA0 However, they had more success against our DL than we have had against much worse DLs...we have a worse run blocking OL than BC. Surely our talent is at least bottom 1/3 of the ACC vs. bottom of D1...which is what we look like.

Again, pass blocking is decent...so the talent is there...just mind blowing how inept we are at run blocking.

We put the K in Kwality

Idk what BC game you watched with their OL vs our DL.... they have 144 rushing yards total after 3 games

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Btw-PFF grades are out after last night...BC Ajax a higher run blocking score than us. Our run blocking grade ranks 125 out of 131.

Most disturbing is several players who had good run blocking grades last year, suddenly forgot how to block.

We put the K in Kwality

What was the pff grade for their OL against us

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Yeah but when you have French pointing out how starters and contributors have regressed, that's concerning. I agree with the overall sentiment though.

I mean it's very likely these players aren't coachable to the level we want them to play. I'll be worried if the players that Pry bring in can't execute the technique he wants them to play.

This is my school
This is home

You can hide lack of talent/strength better in zone blocking schemes than you can with man, full stop. But yeah we look like shit and it will need to be fixed in the portal. Good classes in '22/'23 won't pay dividends until '24/'25

All I have to say is this OL is really bad. The worst I have seen since becoming a VT fan in 1997.

Not sure what you were watching when Curt Newsome was the OL coach, but it was worse. At least this OL gives Wells a little time to scan the field. Newsome's lines couldn't run block and they were awful in pass-pro.

Is coronavirus over yet?

Worst O-line I saw by VT was that pathetic turnstile-impersonating O-line that allowed Motley to get absolutely pummeled by the Pitt D in Lane in 2015 or thereabouts.

Ask Sean Glennon about poor line play. I thought he was going to get killed when we played Georgia.

Penalties. Other than that, I kind of expected this because of the state that Fuente left the program in. For those jumping on pry's case - ease up, I swear he was trying to tell us we were in for a rough ride all off-season.

What I'm mad about is


I'm sorry you haven't had that experience. The 2003 Miami game was euphoric.

Bob: What would ya say ya do here?

Brad: I already told you! I iron out the minutiae so Justin doesn't have to. I have people skills dammit! What the hell is wrong with you people?

Damn brother, I had no idea you've never seen a VT win in person. That's tough sledding for sure.

I've seen some really brutal VT losses in my day: 2005 VT-Miami was my first game, 2009 VT-UNC, Both 2011 Clemson losses, 2012 Clemson loss, 2014 VT-Miami, and 2021 Syracuse, but I'm still ahead in the win column.

I hope your next in-person VT game is a dub for sure.

Oh, let's have some fun. Misery loves company, right?

2004 NC State
2005 Miami
2007 BC (yeah, that one)
2009 UNC
2010 JMU
2011 Clemson (only the first one)
2015 Duke
2015 UNC (Beamer's last home game, that one hurt)

I am immune to VT football-induced pain. I have seen the worst.

I was at 2015 UNC as well, but we put up a hell of a fight late in that game. My main memory from that game is tearing up during the halftime video when Deangelo Hall thanked Frank for being the father figure he never had.

Yeah, that was a hell of a football battle. The only reason it was so brutal was because of moments like that. You could see the guys were playing their absolute asses off for Frank. When UNC got the TD in OT, all I could think was "no, not like this."

And yeah, D-Hall broke me.

I was at 2001 Miami (perhaps the most "quality loss" in Hokie history) and also 2015 Pitt, which was the most miserable I have ever been at a football game of any kind. The weather combined with a lifeless on field performance similar to last night's made me wonder what on earth I was doing there.

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

After a run of several years of going to "big" games and watching us lose, I started going to our FCS games.

Sometimes you have to create your own luck.

Oh so it's YOU doing this!? ๐Ÿค”

Well, maybe it was a lot to pile on your shoulders.

It's not your fault, man.

In second halves this year:
Tied ODU 10-10.
Outscored BC 10-7.
Tied Wofford 7-7 (YIKES).
Outscored by WVU 20-3.

I know it's only four games which is a tiny sample size, but when you combine that with the undisciplined play/penalties/turnovers/etc., the eye test tells me this is some very bad coaching. Consider my excitement level for the Pry era pretty low right now.

You could see it coming on WVUs 2nd drive where they went the length of the field for the FG. They wore our defense out, and our penalties didn't help.

Hey we suck


Bob: What would ya say ya do here?

Brad: I already told you! I iron out the minutiae so Justin doesn't have to. I have people skills dammit! What the hell is wrong with you people?

I'll agree with this

Hokie Club member since 2017

I can't vent too much. Game was pretty much what I was expecting in terms of final score. And we hung in for a while. I hate the 3rd and 4th and 1 from the shotgun to run the ball, but that and the penalties are my only real gripe. Yeah, I guess had hoped for better run blocking too. Not good, but better than this. But it took 6 years for Corn-Fu to destroy the team. Will need more than 4 games to rebuild it. I took the over on 5.5 wins, and guessing I was probably wrong, but we will see.

Hoping we can win 1 game in October and have a chance at bowl eligibility come November 1.

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

My biggest gripe is not a draw play with 1:13 left in the half to run clock. Why give them more of a chance.

Also, how does a center false start!

WVU had 2 timeouts. We run a draw play, don't pick up the first down and they call timeout. Same result.

Wells made a poor decision on the play. Holston was open at the sticks and Wells didn't see him.

in this case sure they didn't use their timeouts, thats not always the case. They could have easily wasted 17 more seconds.

And they scored with 24 seconds left in the half. Doesn't change a thing. We want the team to be aggressive until it doesn't work, then we want to second guess. I'd rather fail trying, rather than fail taking a knee (or running a draw play that has zero chance of getting a first down.)

FWIW, the play call was good - GW had Holston open with a great chance to get the first down. He just failed to see him.

If you expected good results this year, with all due respect, you were out of your goddamn mind. This might be one of the least talented rosters in all of the P5. Full stop, that is how awful our recruiting was under Fuente. Games like tonight are going to be the norm not just this year and next year, and it won't matter how good the coaches are during the games, because the talent just isn't there.

Tonight we had opportunities for guys to make plays all night long and it didn't happen because of a lack of talent. It just isn't there, and this is what we get for employing Fuente for at least 2 years too long.

The only concern I have after tonight are the penalties, especially the pre snap penalties. Just way too much. Way, way too much. 132 yards is absolutely ridiculous and just shows a complete lack of preparation and discipline.

This is my school
This is home

And here I was thinking I couldn't possibly be more negative. Then you walked in the door.

*hat tip to you captain poopy pants*

Bob: What would ya say ya do here?

Brad: I already told you! I iron out the minutiae so Justin doesn't have to. I have people skills dammit! What the hell is wrong with you people?

There are times my wife of 27 years tells me I am a pessimist. I then tell her, no, I am a realist. Big difference and Alum is just saying the way it is as a true realist.

with all due respect, you were out of your goddamn mind.

I don't disagree with you though...

Yeah we played a good first half and as you expect with a team as thin as we are we got tired. Made a shit load of penalty mistakes and we don't have the skill to overcome those.

As much as we want to identify as a power run team we absolutely don't have the personnel to do so. If running up the middle didn't work at all the first 3 quarters it probably isn't going to work in the 4th down two scores. Bowen needs to adjust a bit in play calling.

(add if applicable) /s

At the same time, if Wells could throw an accurate deep pass, we finish the first half with at least 24 points, possibly more, and things look a lot different right now.

This is my school
This is home

1 pass he missed the drive ended in 7 the second he was gonna be lit up and Moss was held.

(add if applicable) /s

And he was on a heater up until the last series before the half.

Yeah kinda mind boggling the streaks he went through

(add if applicable) /s

Yeah, maybe this is the direction we're going to go, but we're not there now.

But how much do you coach to the level of the players, vs where you ultimately want to go?

This is the challenge of a rebuild. To be honest, I'll give them several years where I don't look at the game results. They're going to need that.

That said, sure, adjust the play calling a bit in the 4th quarter to try and get some points.

Iditarod starts March 2, 2023. I'm counting down the days!

Sadly, 4 time winner Lance Mackey passed away from throat cancer at 52. I actually had missed that and just saw now when I looked at when the Iditarod started.

Go Paige, and honorary Hokie by marriage Cody Strathe!

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

Well of all things I do love your dedication to the Iditarod. God knows we all need something outside of VT Football right now.

I just want to let you know...I am so disappointed. Never had to get rough with a student.

Also - sorry Brent, but T Bow sucks. Has no business as a P5 coordinator

It's a bit early to pull the trigger on that assessment.

Agreed. I have to go back to Bustle to find an offensive coordinator that the fan base was ok with.

That's not to say that Bowen will be good and the criticism may be well founded. It is just too early to tell.

To be the man you gotta beat the man!

How do you figure? Have you seen anything in the past 4 weeks that gives you any indications that this scheme can be productive? I sure as hell haven't. My attitude about this would be different if I saw some schematic changes that showed some sort of acknowledgement that the offensive staff is working on making a change, but I'm not seeing it. I mean my God, we just got stifled by Spartanburg High School last week. We keep piling into Jesse Hanson's overwhelmed backside and hoping our skill players can perform a miracle.

There's an obvious lack of talent on that side of the ball, but that doesn't excuse what we're witnessing out there every week.

I would root for the Russians before I would root for Virginia.

Did you happen to see the wide open receivers all night long last night that weren't targeted? The scheme is miles ahead of whatever we had for the past couple years. It's just not going to come together and be top 10 this year with the lack of talent on offense. This year is not going to be pretty on offense no matter what.

I'm not asking for top 10. I'm not even asking for top 50. I'm asking to see some development in game planning. I want an acknowledgement that Bowen can create a system that is at least minimally productive with the talent level available. But we keep running between the guards and hoping for the best. We're not even trying to get the athletes into space in the run game.

Example: 4th and 1, we're getting handled up front on every snap, so we pull a guard and ram our quarterback up the center's ass trying to pick up 3 feet. That play fell apart the moment we snapped the ball and it doesn't work unless we've got a top 10 offensive line. if it's going to require Clemson-level talent for this offense to work, this offense ain't gonna work. Period.

I would root for the Russians before I would root for Virginia.

IMO, and most people aren't going to agree with me, but that 4th and 1 should have been a FG kick. We were struggling to run the ball all game up to that point. We took a timeout after standing at the line for a little bit. Points on the board at that point in the game last night would have been more beneficial than trying to prove we can willfully run the ball. We aren't there yet in game 4 of a complete shift in offensive mentality.

The offense could have been more productive if the open man was targeted more than they were. Check downs, second reads were there last night and not taken. Going for the long shot more often than not will lead to total bust with this current offense and Wells loves to just throw it out there without checking down or reading past the long throw. Wells has gotten better each week in the areas he struggled with the week before but last night showed where he struggles alot. Throwing behind the receiver, going big then broke, and overthrows. I think he can get better and hope he does.

It sucks we lost but I'm not upset with what I've seen/heard from the coaches so far.

I agree early in the game with the lead already? Take the points.

I understand why he did it. Even somewhat agree, but I have issues with the actual play called. It should have been a side toss, QB Sneak under Center, or even a flat pass (like WVU did to us). The QB carry from shotgun is just wrong and should be removed from the book for short yardage plays.

I agree and thought we should have taken the points, and also the call was bad.

However, if Wells had somehow picked up the first down? Great call. That is how it always goes when you decide to go for it on 4th down.

It's poop again ๐Ÿ’ฉ

1-0 every week

if I had the resources, power, and influence of, say, a T. Boone Pickens...

CJF would've been gone after 2018.

Maybe we dig out of this hole. Maybe we don't. At least San Antonio and Texas are living up to the hype for quality of life.

Do better, Tech Football.

VT '10--US Citizen; (804) Virginian By Birth; (210) Texan By the Grace of God.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

I also root for: The Keydets, TexAggies, NY Giants, NY Rangers, and Braves.

So, a botched field goal try separates us from being 3-1.

Our defense is playing with heart and effort. At least 2 of those calls were questionable, but you also don't want to be put in that position.

The offense. Oof. So many followers, beat writers, etc, commented after the spring game our OL was not good. It's shown in ugly ways these first 4 games.

Wells, I love his heart, but he is not seeing the field and staring down receivers. Missed so many open plays, and he missed the ones he threw to. There's at least 2 TDs on the board.

I hope we get a bowl game, if only for the fans. I don't know where we got 4 wins on the schedule, though.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Wells won't be our QB next year.

Neither will Brown.

Embarrassing behavior tonight from VT "students." My wife was shoved and pushed constantly going to the restroom on the east side. I had family from WV who are WVU grads and I was apologizing to them for how horrific the fan behavior was. VT apologizing to WVU. JFC.

I'm so irate because of the embarrassment caused. There isn't adequate security to do anything at the stadium. You go to concessions, restrooms, anything it's just a mob of people. Whit Babcock and Timothy Sands should be 100% to blame for all of this. Whit Babcock has almost single-handedly assured the destruction of VT football. And Tim Sands' bullshit indifference to anything with a pulse will finish it.

VT will be fucking Purdue under Sands. We are heading there very quickly.

I'm tired of pretending those clowns have done anything good for VT athletics. The public parking situation alone told me VT doesn't give a shit about football today.

Well this is a take.

You may be right about some stuff, but you can't control everyone else. You can only control you.

So you're the one who has to be the class act in all situations.

It's very easy to be a good fan when your team is dominant and winning. It's a lot harder when your team is in rebuild 0.5.

Yes, VT football has regressed from the glory days. Yes, it's a rebuild. Know this, and proceed accordingly. Expect some fans to be upset. Expect Wells to throw some bad passes or make mental mistakes. Expect games not to look like they used to.

Whit Babcock is a class act, and has done a lot of positive things for VT athletics. He has improved fundraising, which will be critical in this next phase of rebuild, even as VT football doesn't look like we want it to. We have to stay the course. It's going to hurt for a few years. We gave Fuente a lot of time - we need to give Pry some time. It's his first head coaching gig. Let's give him a fair chance.

One thing you said that I agree with 100% is the need for good security. Big crowds+big expectations meets rebuild may mean we need more security this year. We need to demand good from the crowd. They may need to be reminded early and often. And some of that is increased security presence. Our expectations for this should be high, and our tolerance for poor crowd behavior needs to be low.

If people are shoving, it's probably worth timing your restroom visits differently. Was it at halftime? After the game? During a time when a lot of people would want to go at once? It's also worth a note to Whit to let him know of this experience. Don't mix in your feelings about VT football, just the facts of your wife getting pushed.

Student behavior has been an issue since pre pandemic and only gotten worse post pandemic btw. No clue if it's bad in the north but the east stands has been a mess ever since they revamped the ticketing/seating for students

This is a problem for young people at all levels after 2 years of social regression. I have talked to a number of middle and high school teachers who are telling me that the students this year are finally starting to resemble human beings again.

This isn't just an us problem. Still not acceptable, still needs to be fixed.

Yeah it's a problem for everyone but especially young people in their formative social years. Remember how when fans were first let back into pro stadiums and how terribly people acted all over the country? I work in the service industry and the stuff coming out about how people were treating serving staff was horrifying. Take all of that add being young, stupid, drunk, and having poor social development and you get this.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Its not just in the stadium, its also at the bar.

For the ODU game to kick off the season we had a large gathering at our usual bar and had a group of 10-15 recent grads show up. Came to find out the entire group completely stiffed the wait staff on their tips at the end of the night, and it was so bad that us regulars actually didn't have anyone willing to serve us for the BC game. And this is a bar we've been using for the past 8 years.

This is my school
This is home

When you have to apologize to WVU fans for how rough VT fans are behaving, I'm sorry but that's ridiculous.

so it seems like a resounding "no" on the question of whether or not the students will remember how to behave in public after a year

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

buckle up 7 (and everyone else complaining about losses). there's two years minimum of pain. No need to get upset about it. Just accept it.

and I just want a friggin VT Belt Buckle, but can't find one anywhere

VT '10--US Citizen; (804) Virginian By Birth; (210) Texan By the Grace of God.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

I also root for: The Keydets, TexAggies, NY Giants, NY Rangers, and Braves.

I get disappointment, but I don't get "surprise" at this point.

WVU is a good football team right now. VT is a rebuild with a few promising players. The O line is not where it needs to be for the kind of offense we want.

The defense didn't look as sharp tonight, mostly because WVU is a more talented team than they've faced. The VT defense was doing mostly the right stuff, but there were significant lapses against a talented and balanced offense. They still need to work on completing tackles and sticking to their assignments. Better than last year, but not perfect.

The penalties were a surprise, and that really does indicate some work to be done on the part of the coaches. Also, the delay of game penalty was on them, and there is no excuse for that.

Like Fernley said, Buckle Up. It's going to be a bumpy ride.

From all I understand the delay of game was on the refs as the clock wasn't reset. The announcers were even talking about it and saying how the clock didn't reset and the coaches were motioning to the refs that the clock need to be reset.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

The irritating part is when the clock hit zero on WVU in the 3rd/4th because they didn't reset the clock, they didn't call a penalty, but instead reset the clock.

It actually never reset and was zero for 30 seconds or so on that play iirc..

From the 2018 VT-uva game-"This is when LEGENDS are made!"

The play calling in the second half was maddening to me; we were doing a fairly decent job of attacking the perimeter and getting guys in space. The second half offense seemed like it was trying to stick a square peg in a round hole. They were determined to run the ball when the OL has been poor all year and especially was so in the first half.

There's something to be said for sticking with what works...hopefully Bowen figures it out because between him and Rudolph, I don't know which coach is more disappointing.

The thing is, from press conferences with Pry it almost seems like the determination to successfully run the ball is coming from Pry himself. He just keeps saying how important it is to "prove that we can run the ball" against strong defenses, because he knows as a coordinator how hard it is for defenses to stop a strong run game. And that's true but... I mean, the O line is just not there to support that strategy yet. Everyone is frustrated with Bowen because he keeps running up the middle ad nauseum and to utter futility, but listening closely to Pry talk about offense, I can't help but wonder if Bowen has more or less been instructed to "make it happen" on the ground. I respect the strategy, but... we can't win a drag race in a Chevy Cavalier just by dreaming about the Corvette we'll own tomorrow. If it ain't working yet, it ain't working yet. I'd rather see us use who we've got, however we've got to use them to move the ball instead of just... continuing to try to get the run going on principle alone.

Thanks VTFB for going out there and reminding me why I was worried you'd be winless this year. I think...I think this is just who they are. It's still too early to tell if it's talent or coaching or a mix of both.

Is what Rudolph teaches so very different from what Vice taught that the guys are still having trouble getting their heads around it 1/4 of the way into the season? Or are they just not good enough to do it? Or both? I've thought myself into a corner here, and I don't know which answer is the right one.

But the penalties ARE 100% coaching, full stop. I don't know what they have to try to address that, but they better get creative yesterday.

Pry better be one hell of a fucking recruiter, because he's gonna need to pull out every trick in the book to fix this.

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

I saw a comment somewhere up thread (or maybe game thread) about going from the least penalized team in america to handing opponents easy route to two wins over us.

A) maybe fuente knew something about the talent on the roster and gow we absolutely positively 100% would not be able to overcome shooting ourselves on the foot, which is why he had a stick in his booty about players making avoidable mistakes (penalties, fumbles, etc). Maybe it's also why the end-of-half scenarios were so drab -- yeah we won't score late before halftime but neither will you.

B) maybe that culture of "dont make a mistake, be conservative, if we limit every opportunity we're limiting our opponents' opportunities, we just need to have grit when it counts" takes a long time to root out and replace with playing fast and loose, controlling the aggression but still playing w aggression, and overpowering the opponents.

The A approach lets you avoid (some) embarassing defeats (but not all of them) and has a razor thin margin for error, especially coupled with poor recruiting. You might grind to 6 wins, but you're probably not grinding to 9.

The B approach is going to see awful losses and bad seasons in the process of turning things around where 10 wins becomes possible. Switch to man blocking from zone blocking on the OL. Switch to a different scheme on defense. Switch from Jet Sweep City to... whatever this offense is supposed to be.

The talent on this roster is bad. The jury is still out on the coaching staff's ability to turn it around. I have my eyes on the recruiting, i have my eyes on the field. It's not where we all want it to be. Whit and Pry are likely viewing this as a 3+ year project. The fanbase should too.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Yeah, and I have been. It just feelsbadman.

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

Oh darn tooting on that. Feels bleak. My hope for this team this year was a) looking better in november than in september b) dont blow two score leads late in the 4q

Idk if we'll have to worry about the second one too much ๐Ÿ˜…

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

And in regards to recruiting, it's going to probably take a few years for that to meaningfully turn around given that so many sophomores and juniors make their commitments and how much our previous staff just let every recruiting venture we had rot on the vine.

We very well could be a pretty bad team for the majority of this decade because of how bad things were under Fuente.

This is my school
This is home

Yep. And even with the unlikely scenario that they do get recruiting turned on a dime in a rapid upward trajectory, it will still take a few years to show up in the win/loss record. This year's recruits won't play much if at all next year. Probably 2024 is the earliest an influx of high school talent can be recruited and get to the point where they are the mainstay on the field. And that is assuming good recruiting begins now.

Hopefully we can bridge the gap with some good transfers, better coaching and people absorbing the system, but we should not expect things to be much better next season in terms of W/L record. Possible, yes. Likely, no.

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

Best exchange yet on this thread. Great points by you both...

Cheers, 'preciate the feedback!

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Are we not getting exactly what we expected out of this team? There's not a coach on the planet that would have made this collection of athletes any better. We either trust that Pry has a vision and have realistic expectations for the near future or we don't.

Defensively we have no depth and are still making too many mistakes to carry the team. We have never been an offensive juggernaut, NEVER. Even in Beamer's best years we relied on defense and special teams.

Losing a single game isn't what has most of us pissed. It's the general sense of apathy that has permeated the football program for the better part of six years or longer!

Hope is all we have. The HOPE that one day we will field a team that will execute a coach's strategy and get our football program back to the high standard Beamer set!

I can see glimmers of hope and that's about all we should expect this season.

Go Hokies!

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

Totally agree with this.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

We have ALMOST never been an offensive juggernaut, NEVER


The '99 team scored 30 or more in every game except the Miracle in Morgantown and the National Championship game (and that was 29). They had over 40 in 5 games, over 50 in 3, and over 60 in 2 (including 62 against then #16 Syracuse (I was at that game).

Granted the special teams and defense scored often (1-2 TDs a game it seemed-that was a part of Beamerball that folks tend to forget; it isn't just forcing the turnover-it's SCORING in all three phases of the game-pick 6, scoop and score fumbles and blocked kicks run back for scores) but the offense that year WAS pretty good too- team as a whole scored 455 points in 11 regular season games- an average of over 41 per game which led the nation that year.

Your point is still valid overall of course unfortunately.

From the 2018 VT-uva game-"This is when LEGENDS are made!"

I suppose it's semantics, and we could all cherry pick games here or there to prove a point. I for one have always loved watching us play defense because we were so prone to wreak havoc and create points via the turnover or create short fields for our offenses.

If that's the recipe that gets us back to where we all want to go, I'll take it. I just need an offense that can every now and then impose its will...particularly for one or two yards!

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

Totally agree..the only issue I had was the word NEVER rather than RARELYi lol.

From the 2018 VT-uva game-"This is when LEGENDS are made!"

What's more bothersome is for a gun-slinger, well is gun shy. This may be a consequence of the ODU game. But in the Wofford, BC, and last night, we would have guys WIDE open downfield and he would check down or throw it away. But, even when he ws throwing those he was missing anyways so I guess it doesn't matter.

Also, I know we kid, but last night was when a jet sweep was needed. It at least gives a little time in the backfield and keeps the secondary and line off balance. Penalties are upsetting. Everything else comes with the job and team that as inherited.

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

They run anything outside of the tackles last night, at least from what I can recall. Need to get an inside/outside game going.

This was frustrating. I don't think we even tried an outside run. Louis Riddick called us out saying why do they keep running into the strength of the defense. I'm not asking for a bunch of jet sweeps (maybe a couple), but we could've at least tried to get King in space once or twice outside the tackles on a run.

I'm not sure I remember an outside the tackle running play all season.

#TeamPeanutButter - because your cakes, pies, cookies, and ice creams are better with it!

I'm not seeing the upgrade, I'm just not. Outside of being a better face of the program from a PR standpoint, Pry hasn't shown me anything yet, and its dismaying.

Someone mentioned seeing flashes earlier. I'm not seeing that. Games coached by Fuente had "flashes" of great playmaking, but without the obscene number of penalties.

We GAVE them 1-1/3 lengths of the field. Even subpar talent can manage not to do that.

Losing because they were the better team, but we put out our best effort, I can live with that.
But I'm sorry folks, anyone who says we're improving is cherry picking. We aren't
The cupboard isn't bare, its just not stocked with our choice. We have players that can be coached up. We can lose a close game. We can play a clean, disciplined game and lose.

Pry hasn't shown us ANYTHING, and we're making excuses for him.

This isn't an "off with his head" rant. Its a "start earning your paycheck, Pry" rant.

I agree here. The Pry honeymoon is over for me. We can sugar coat it all we want, but there were some hires on this staff that were absolute reaches. We got more money for staff and he hired an OC who called plays once for PSU. I think it's a bit of a jump. We got quite a few buddy hires I'm afraid. And recruiting isn't nearly what it should be. I love the rah rah and such but everything else is very suspect for me.

The Pry honeymoon is over for me

I just don't get this thinking at all. This was a disappointing loss when it should have been simply a predictable loss. Clearly there are some issues with penalties and the offensive play-calling, but if you were expecting great football from the Hokies this season you were fooling yourself.

We didn't hit the portal nearly hard enough. We don't have much to work with on offense and we didn't attempt to bring in better QB talent. There were steps to make this year a little smoother but we didn't even try.

Sorry, Wells isn't it. Ryan Willis 2.0. He makes a mistake and everything goes to his head and it snowballs on him.

They got like maybe a quarter probably less of the cycle by the time we had a full staff. If you're basing your impresssions of a head coach on their first recruiting cycle maybe wait until they have a full recruiting cycle.

(add if applicable) /s

Lol here comes the excuses. How's his 2023 class looking? We will be somewhere in Fu territory in the 50s with this class.

It's called realistic expectations. Look at the state of the program as a whole, this isn't something you can sprinkle some magic fairy dust on and get a top 15 class.

(add if applicable) /s

We had 1 week between Pry being hired and Early Signing Day when 90% of the national recruiting class made their decision.

Basically, if you wait til the end of the season to hire a new coach, you are basically signing up to burn a recruiting class.

This is my school
This is home

Ok, so write off 2022. Still, what are we looking at for 2023? We are currently hovering around 40 and not many more spots to give. With other schools getting late commits, we could easily end up in the 50s. Is that realistic expectations for VT football?

Welp, the other reality is that most kids make their college decision in their sophomore and junior seasons right now and rarely change, outside of their skill level improving to the point a bigger dog wants them or a last minute flip. And in a VT problem, Justin Fuente torched all our in state connections while he was coach, so we don't have any in state channels to turn to in order to bolster up our current classes. Repairing those relationships isn't going to happen overnight, so we're probably looking at our first 'Pry' class being in the 2024 or 2025 range. Everything before hand will be salvaging what we can from the damage that was already done.

What we are seeing now is why Fuente should have been fired in 2019 or 2020 before it could have been allowed to get this bad. But because we waited that long, we probably set ourselves back an additional 5-10 years in our rebuild cycle.

This is my school
This is home

So basically insert current year + 2, and that's really when we are going to have a great class? I feel like I've heard this before.

At some point the excuses need to stop. I am fairly well convinced now that we got a buddy staff and recruiting is going to struggle due to that. Also the offense shouldn't be this awful, but here we are. A class in the 50s and no impact transfers will be pretty inexcusable.

With all due respect, if you're getting this upset after 4 games, you probably might want to mentally check out for the next few years.

If things get better, it will only do so marginally. I knew you were primed for this level of anger in the preseason when you were not willing to accept the reality we are facing right now as a program, and I'm just begging for your own sake to realize where we are.

We're not a good team. Our recruiting has been awful for years, legitimately one of the 5 worst recruiting programs in the Power 5 over Fuente's last 2 years, and that doesn't include this past class. All of our in state relationships need to be amended before we're going to be able to pull in quality Commonwealth kids again. And this process isn't going to happen overnight. And even if we hit the portal hard, we're probably only replenishing the starters, and with no semblance of depth, it won't get much better than where we currently are.

This is my school
This is home

Agreed, we weren't in a good spot to start with. But, just revisit this post in a few years when we can't blame the previous coach anymore for the talent, etc. We hired some rah rah but didn't get a whole lot more than that I'm afraid. I don't know what the answer is for VT football.

Agree with this. Anyone who listens to Cover 3 has heard Bud Elliot trash our recruiting for a while now.

There is a lot of work to be done.

Oh he's still trashing it

(add if applicable) /s

offense shouldn't be this awful

There is one blue-chip player on that unit and he looks better than he did in 3 years under the previous staff. What's the over under on P5 offers that the rest of the RBs, WRs, and starting QB had coming out of school? Fuente recruited G5 players for years, everybody tried to spin them as diamonds in the rough, and turns out: they were not.

The pre-snap penalties are absurd and 100% on this staff. But other than that, this offense looks about like what you should expect.

Also the offense shouldn't be this awful

SP+ preseason projections predicted us to have the 80th best offense in the country. We're a little worse than that right now, but not far off.

Twitter me

Chris and I have talked about it in multiple spots, but expect to see us hit the transfer market hard this off season. The 25-new-scholarships/year maximum is gone next year, so I think/hope we'll overhaul the roster big time.

To your point - we need to see a much improved roster before the start of next season.

Twitter me

I think you're missing the point. We aren't focusing on the fact we lost. We're focusing on the manner in which the game was played.

If you can't coach your team to not beat yourself, how do you coach a team to beat other teams?

if you were expecting great football from the Hokies this season you were fooling yourself.

I am so sick of this false binary. Not accepting the putrid ludicrous crap that was foisted upon Lane last night as a "run game" does not mean an expectation of "great football". Somewhere between bad and mediocre right now (forget "great") would be an upgrade from the current abysmal level.

I think there's winnable talent on the defensive first team, but other than that I don't see it right now. Not to say there aren't a few kids here and there on offense. I am really confused why Pry didn't portal harder this off-season.

I think that's a taller order than people are making it out to be you've got a guy that's hired, hardly had a full staff, had an entire roster to evaluate that had a few glaring holes that needed patched immediately. He's not Riley not gonna be pulling in talent from the portal. We've got people complaining that G Wells isn't a P5 talent which may be true but we weren't gonna go stela any P5 talent from the portal either.

(add if applicable) /s

To clarify, I wasn't looking for 4- and 5-star pulls. Rather more Jadan Blue type players that are looking to move up, and a clear roster upgrade for Tech.

Fair, still a long process. It'll be essential to get this offseason.

(add if applicable) /s

Going to preface this and say I have no clue what kinds of conversations Pry had with the current roster before looking at the portal, but here's a couple ponderings I've had:

- You can try and process guys all you want, but if they don't want to leave VT for whatever reason then you can't really force them out the door. I think it's highly likely that a lot of guys felt they had a better shot of earning playing time here than transferring elsewhere (which honestly, is damning of the talent level).

- Given how volatile the roster was under Fuente and the amount of dudes that entered the portal every year, I do wonder if there was a conscious decision by Pry to try and minimize attrition. At the very least, the pitch may have been "Let's reset and give everyone a fresh start" and stop burning any more bridges that could potentially lead to tougher sledding on the recruiting trail.

Baseless speculation on my part for sure, but things I've been thinking about over the first third of the season.

i was hoping for more upgrades as well, but wasn't it a numbers thing? not as many kids left as he was anticipating, so no scholarships opened up? maybe he should've actively pushed more kids to leave, but without knowing them and fully evaluating them, that can't be easy to do

Makes his plan to patiently wait for Jacksonville's season to end to announce the hire of a tight end coach to be a first time offensive coordinator look pretty dumb, doesn't it?

Free Hugh

I heard they were portaling pretty hard for OL (particularly tackle), but a) there was just not that much available, and b) what was available probably wasn't going to make the situation any better. I'm as disappointed as anyone in the OL, particularly with the Rudolph hire, but at least in that instance I don't fault the offseason portal effort.

OL has the least amount of portal movement so high demand low supply puts those guys pretty much at the top programs if they're good enough to play P5. Otherwise they're moving down a level.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

I think scholly spots were an issue with throwing out portal offers. That was one of the hinderances of having 10-12 scholly RB's.

uva - the taint of the ACC

I was too, at first, but over time I've landed on the theory that he knew this was going to be a year zero rebuild situation, and decided he'd take the Spring, Summer, Fall Camp, and first full season to assess the roster carefully and figure out what he has in the building right now, then hit the portal hard this offseason. Additionally, tough conversations about kids going elsewhere/not having a future on the field at VT are going to be easier when they know Pry gave them a chance, and they know they fell behind others on the depth chart when given that chance. Plus, at that point he will have a full year to know which guys can help VT moving forward, and which guys aren't cut out for this level.

this is a great point and I'm sure is at least partially true. You can only know so much from what you have in practice. You don't really know until you seem them in live games.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

Well the defense looks way better. I'm not sure what you are expecting out of him in year 1 when he really doesn't even have a recruiting class under his belt.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

I wholeheartedly agree with your post. After 4 games, there has been very little to applaud. He has been more accessible. But the discipline and preparation of the team is noticeably lacking.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

This thread:

This year is the rebuild most teams have when they get a new coach. Fuente had that one good year with NFL level talent and it spoiled us. I think Pry is the guy to build the culture. I hope he can make the right personnel decisions when needed. Rebuilding a culture takes time in any organization. Tough through it or go find something else to do.

Leg for Shoresy!

I will surmise it like this:

- The OL penalties are the ones that the coaches need to address front and center

- The Dax and Pollard PF's are totally on them. For Dax, shame on him. For Pollard, no coaching is going to stop a high hand blocking position that slides into the OL players face mask. Those two penalties cost us a TD

- Wells pick 6. Brutal. Enough said.

- if Wells had put some float on just two deep passes, we get two TD's. Those misses were pathetic IMO. Wide AF open receiver and a starting P5 QB can't connect on either of those, let alone one.

- Wells can only look at one pass option and that's it. His staring down his lone target will earn more pick 6 opptys for our opponents. This is one area we may see improvement progression but for the other team.

- Shot or should I say, "Shit" gun formation, especially on 3/4 and 1. For the love of God, stop. There is no meaningful play action in the shotgun. We need more snaps over the center to create PA and roll out pass/pitch plays. Roll/run a little East and West to open the D's front and box. We convert on 4 and 1 in the first and we get a FG or TD

- Lastly and Alum said said it in three words regarding talent. "It Ain't There"

I can forgive Dax's PF. Bang-bang play that if he pulls up and the QB runs around him we're all over his ass. I get why it's a penalty, doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

#TeamPeanutButter - because your cakes, pies, cookies, and ice creams are better with it!

Is it too early to fire everyone?

Yes you silly goose, it is entirely too early

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

(was joke)

Clearly too soon (to joke like that)...


I think you just discovered what the "/s" was built for...

We could have won that game. We have won games like that. We used to win games like that. Wells hits 2 easy long completions, we actually kick a fg instead of running a qb draw on 4th and 1, and play a clean, penalty free game and we are all having a different conversation. We should be at least 3-1 and quite possibly could actually be 4-0. The mistakes are what are killing us, not the lack of 4 star players.

The lack of 4 star players are one of the (many) reasons for the mistakes.

And as "easy" as those completions look on TV, it was very windy last night and that ups the difficulty on those "easy" throws.

Appalachian State just beat a team with more 5 stars and the consensus number 1 recruiting class in the country by playing mistake free football. I don't recall them having a top 40 class ever.

Appalachian State is currently having an all-time historically crazy season. I'm not sure they should be a benchmark for anything.

Upsets happen. The result probably had more to do with aTm than App State. But if you want to draw comparisons, I'll play.

Coach Clark has been coaching at App St. 4 more years than Brent Pry has been coaching here. That's 4 years for his assistants to gel, 4 years to put a system in place and 4 years to recruit the type of players he needs.

Coach Clark had an entire week to prepare his team for aTm. Coach Pry had less than 5 days due to the Thursday night game.

WVU viewed this as a rivalry game with a "trophy" on the line. aTM didn't give two shits about the game against App St.

Don't get me wrong, we aren't a good team, we played a horrible game and there is a lot of blame to go around.

Agree-at least two throws I saw(not the long ones) would have been completions but the wind carried them long.

From the 2018 VT-uva game-"This is when LEGENDS are made!"

I liked going for it there. I hated the play they called.

Same - one of the things I really like about pry is the aggressive in game decisions - going for it on 4th and 1 on your opponent's 30 is a must. Mathematically it makes sense, but most coaches are too pussy to do it. I also love that we try to score with 2 min left in the half. You need to win the middle-8 - imagine we score there, then get the ball back at the start of the second half? So much momentum.

Unfortunately, in both situations, while the strategy was sound, the execution was doodoo, in so many ways.

Twitter me

AND get the ball back on a muffed punt first punt of the second half

Ugh Lawson was all over that ball, have no idea how he let that one go. Special teams was nearly a disaster all night horrible snaps, had a punt tipped it was scary.

(add if applicable) /s

My first thought after that play, fair or not, was "Fuente put him at WR? With those hands??"

Come on we're not a good team and yes we should play more disciplined ball but saying things like "well if we only scored more touchdowns we would have won" isn't even a rant. I think the biggest issue is guys on the team who aren't even remotely young anymore are often committing the worst penalties at the absolute most terrible time. That is a coaching and personnel issue and maybe you could point to the previous group of coaches for some blame but these guys are dudes that have been playing college football 3 or more years at this point. The responsibility is on them to not make boneheaded mistakes like that.

I'm a little bit surprised of all the negativity around Wells. I thought he played decently up until about the pick six, maybe a little before. The lack of run game is a complete killer. I get that our talent is bad for a P5 team, but I have a hard time accepting our talent is below par for a G5 or FCS team, either of which would likely run better than we did. Rudolph is probably our most proven coach in his position so I'll accept for now it's just something I don't understand. I had some higher hopes for this season - not necessarily in W-L, but in looking competent. Defense does mostly look better but the penalties were a killer. The offense - I don't know what to say. I do still have some hope that Pry at least acknowledges issues rather than just saying the players need to play better. I also have some hope that he'll make coaching changes if needed. I'm disappointed but also understand time will be needed to turn this around. I'm not confident our recruiting will greatly improve in the next couple of classes but I do believe Pry's investment in building the in-state relationships will improve recruiting over time.

Regarding Wells, he's not looking off the primary receiver, and once you notice it, its hard not to see it anymore. There were multiple times last night where he had open guys on the field, but his eyes just locked in on the primary receiver and the defense sold out to stop the pass, and it went for minimal to no gain. And the couple times we went deep in the first half, we had guys wide open and he couldn't put the ball within 5 yards of the catch radius. And that kind of telegraphing short and midrange passes combined with an inaccurate deep ball just let WVU load up the box and swat our running game aside like a gnat.

This is my school
This is home

Before we throw Wells under the bus (mostly by others)...he was our best offensive player. How much did he feel like every pass had to be "perfect" (pressing)? He's watching the game too and when we can gain a single yard rushing, presnap mental mistakes, etc...he probably felt like he had to win the game on every throw.

We put the K in Kwality

He had clean enough pockets a lot, and I felt like he just absolutely airmailed so many passes. Those guys were OPEN on those deep balls and they weren't close.

That's my point...think he's pressing too much to make everything perfect.

We put the K in Kwality

I feel like the penalties are the major issue here with everyone. There are certainly way too many, no question about that. There's nothing worse than an undisciplined football team. But lets consider what the penalties were last night.

The on on Dax was simply a bad call. Full speed towards the QB, head up, hits the QB just as/after the throw. He did not allow his body to land on the QB (which will always get you that flag). On the replay you could see him holding up just after the hit (I know that sounds counterintuitive). I think it was a bad call on a kid making a play. In any event, I don't fault Dax for that one.

It was really difficult figuring out how PI was being called, so that was an issue. However, our lack of talent really showed out (and next week against UNC it will show even more), particularly with Strong. I really like him, but he simply isn't athletic enough to keep up with good P-5 WRs so he often finds himself in compromising positions - he isn't the only culprit.

I can deal with guys putting it all out there, doing everything they can and having a flag thrown. On the other hand we absolutely have to clean up the other stuff.

Beyond that, the one of the key plays in the game for me was when we had WVU pinned down at the 1 yard line (or whatever it was)... they ended up being 3rd and long deep in their own territory when the RB caught the ball out of the backfield... We had him dead to rights when Chatman whiffed on the tackle... Horrible effort that allowed the drive to extend and WVU would eventually score. That was a 6+ minute drive if I remember correctly.

And to the offense... There's really not much to say. It shouldn't be as bad as it is.

Is coronavirus over yet?

There was pretty much no answer when 12 got through our defensive linemen he was going for 8+ that guy is going to be NFL talent for sure.

Agree with all your other stuff the procedural penalties at home are inexcusable

(add if applicable) /s

For all the talk of how bad the offensive line is, I feel like WVU didn't get to Wells too often. There were definitely a few times, but I feel like the wind when we were headed into the SEZ had more impact than their pass rush. When we were facing NEZ the passing was notably better. EDIT: also, until the pick 6 (when he was trying to force it) I think he had a pretty decent game

Run blocking though, woof.

I agree that the pass blocking blocking has been better than the run blocking, but that's a bit like comparing getting kicked in the nards to breaking every bone in your body. Neither are pleasant, but one is orders of magnitude worse.

One reason the pass blocking may look better is teams are dropping more people into coverage since we have zero threat on the ground. I think Pry even said in the post game presser that you aren't going to beat teams being one dimensional.

Wells is definitely in a tough spot. At this point everyone knows Tech has to throw to move the ball at all, so the majority of defenses can scheme around disguising coverages and mixing pressures. I'll be surprised if he makes it through October without some sort of injury, either from having to run him more or teams teeing off since we can't move the ball on the ground.

I think we have to face the reality that this isn't a rebuild. A rebuild indicates some semblance of a workable foundation in place. This is a complete teardown.

I applaud the young men that play their hearts out for VT. They certainly don't want to go out there and get embarrassed, and they want to win more than we do. With that being said, we just don't have any horses on either side of the ball. We don't have any game changers...

Defensively, I think Pry has them moving in the right direction given what he has in the cupboard. They are playing aggressively, and I can live with some of the penalties to be honest. You have players probably not meant to play at this level, and they are pushing to exceed their limits. Without any data to back up this assertion, I bet the majority of these back-breaking penalties are in the second half. We are either playing from behind and having to chase the game or the starters are just getting depleted. I'd love to see what Pry can do with a talented roster.

Offensively, we are just a nightmare. Where the defense is playing aggressively, the offense is just stuck in neutral. We need a ball control offense, and that starts with the run game. Unfortunately, the offensive line play is beyond abysmal and this results in a need to throw the ball in order to move the sticks. Wells, the receivers, and the entire passing game is only meant to complement the attack, not be the focal point. It's a collection of walk-ons and transfers, so it's a lot to ask of them. As a whole, the offense is a hodgepodge unit that shows zero glimpses of hope at the moment.

It's going to be a long season, go ahead and make it three seasons. Pry needs to put on his best salesman's hat and recruit. I'm not expecting us to light it up with 4 and 5 star folks, but find the right people that fit your scheme and get them on the field ASAP. The roster is in such a bad state, that I don't think we start seeing indicating results until year 4.

I think we just need to continue to support the program and understand that this isn't an overnight process. I'll be traveling to the Pitt game to pull for our squad and support our players and new coach. He isn't stupid and probably realizes it is worse than he thought. Drop it down a gear and keep grinding.

Well said.

Well....I say shut down the thread and read this a few times.


After Beamer was a teardown and that's why it was such a long and painful journey with Fuente. It was a 6 year process because when he was hired there were good upperclassmen but very little left in the cupboard after that first two years.

Pry has a rebuild. There is nothing but blue sky in front of him once he gets past the first 2 years of pain. Yes the cupboard is bare again but it's largely an underskilled, unexperienced young group of athletes. By third year you have your first recruits hitting upperclassmen or redshirt sophomore, which have been fully recruited and coached in the system they want to run, and the young players he was left with during regime change have either caught on and risen to the top or will start to be cleared off to make way for new recruits.

Year 3 Pry should have a decent team. decent, not great but could aurprise with great coaching. Year 4 good enough to be competitive. That's a rebuild.

everyone calling for Pry's honeymoon being over is just reactionary to the frustration we all felt with Fuente. And if anyone thought we would win WVU then you had serious O&M glasses on to not see the problems Pry has on his hands.

Too many pre-snap penalties are what worries me (other than the delay of game penalty, that was on the refs with the clock malfunctioning and not resetting it when they should have). I think fixing those penalties should be a very high priority in practices.

The Definsive Pass Interference call confuses me but then I remembered that NCAA likes money and offense makes money so if a defense makes a stop then there has to be a penalty.

Roughing the Passer penalty was a terrible call by the refs (both on us and WV). Another example of offense pays the NCAA's and refs' bills with the "Protecting the players" disguise, love how NCAA "Protects" on harmless plays on the field but they love to be part/help sexual harassment/assault/illegal shit/etc. by coaches/staff/etc. to stroke their ego.

"Oi! What's a Horkie"
"I am ya Grot!"

"Horkies were made for two fings foighten' and winnen'" - Horkie Warboss

"That Gritty git doesn't exactly look like a Horkie, but by Gork and Mork it acts like one!"-Random Horkie Boy

The officiating was, at least consistent. The PI and PFs were called the same way for both teams, even if we would rather the refs let them play football.

My thoughts:

1) Sure our Oline didn't get push on run plays, but they also only gave up one sack against a very good WVU Dline and Wells wasn't running for his life too often

2) The pick six wasn't Wells fault -- Kaleb Smith stumbled away from his route the moment Wells released the ball. Even Kaleb knew it was his fault because he started hitting the ground immediately afterwards. Wells should have had C Moss in the endzone which sucked, but I think the wind blew the other one out of bounds.

3) We tried to force the run game way too much. If you can't actually run the ball, then go with short pop passes/jet sweeps/bubble screens to get the ball in King's (our best playmaker) hands. I'm not sold on our OC, but also not ready to fire him either.

4) Peter Moore for MVP

Slept on it but have not watched the ESPN broadcast. Let's fuckin vent. A lot.....

  • First of all, why is there only like, 3 places on the east side for me to get Fightin Hokies Lager? I finally had some, and it's delicious.
  • Underneath sections 20 through 14 was an absolute clusterfuck of people that DID NOT MOVE (and I mean nut to butt) for a solid 20 minutes. I'm not sure why, but someone has got to figure that shit out. My wife had her turkey leg knocked out of her hand by some jackass WVU fan who then threatened to hit her when she called him what he deserved. (And in the mood she was in during that mess, I'd have bet on her. Heavily) And staff and PD not doing shit about it. There was no reason for it once we finally got through it.
  • Students. The game is 6 points at half. That's a great game with a chance to win. Why the hell are you leaving the stands and not coming back. That's pisspoor
  • Grant Wells. Sorry bud, but you stare at receivers, you cannot throw like we were told (a "deep ball" is one thing, but you look like you're as accurate as a medieval trebuchet.
  • Stupid stupid stupid penalties (I will say that some were very.... Well let's call them questionable) But like we all said after ODU, you ain't gonna beat a whole lot of people when you have 130yards of penalties.
  • Both sides of the line need to get push. Daniels was getting the ball out pretty quick most of the night it seemed, so that limits the DL pretty well. OL needs to get better
  • Some of this play calling has me perplexed. I mean, 3rd/4th and 1 and we're going to try a QB run with a guy who isn't a power runner behind a line getting schooled? From shotgun????

My initial thoughts. Like I said, I haven't watched the broadcast angle yet. Pretty disappointed, tbh. But that WVU team is not good, with the exception of Wheaton, Donaldson, and Daniels.

Warning- Filter lost.

"Look at this... This is just spectacular.... These people are losing their minds"

but you look like you're as accurate as a medieval trebuchet.

Oh wow. Nailed it.

I like under center runs, get the RB running downhill, or give the QB an opportunity on a boot with a flat option.

Hell, QB Sneak for 1 yard.

Sure its boring. I'll take boring over a shotgun run right at WVU's best DL.

Also not gonna win many games with 18 rushes for 35 yards. THIRTY FIVE YARDS!!! and unlike in many cases, that total was NOT held down by yardage lost on sacks(there was only 1 sack by WVU).

Whether it's bad run blocking, poor results in finding the right hole and hitting it at the right time,, or not having a true superstar running back(or several) like we were used to most years from 1995-2015 , you can't win being that one-dimensional- a point Pry made in his post-game presser. Whether we can fix one or ANY of those three facets this season is questionable . but clearly this is in top 3 at least in priority for future.

From the 2018 VT-uva game-"This is when LEGENDS are made!"

*looks back at post* fuck, that was supposed to be in there. Good call!

We need to work on the OL in a massive way. It's where everything starts and you can't win shit with an OL that doesn't function

Warning- Filter lost.

"Look at this... This is just spectacular.... These people are losing their minds"

This play in the drive right before halftime that resulted in a Hokies punt is what frustates me (and many others) about Wells' inability to see the field.

There is a clean pocket and instead of taking the easy checkdown to a *wide open* Holston for an easy 1st down, Wells throws a heater to a double-covered Moss. Baffling.

If you could have read French's film review you knew this was coming.

(add if applicable) /s

This is what happens when the defense knows a QB never looks off the primary receiver. They didn't even attempt to cover anyone else the second Wells looked at Moss.

This is my school
This is home

Not arguing that. But, in those 2 frames, I would like to know HOW a QB could even see Holston (again, in this frame... a split second before or after, if he's moving around, he should have been able to see him)

At the very least Wells should have been able to identify that Moss was more than covered and that a 1st down was impossible with that play, and to look for the check down/safety valve that Holston clearly was designed to be on that play.

This is my school
This is home

I mean this should be a pre snap read throwing a shallow cross in zone coverage is rarely a good idea he's double covered and running into the CB shallow zone. Not sure what freedom he's given but I hope he's allowed to throw it to not just one guy cause only Corn would think that's a good idea. If he reads a zone coverage he should have immediately looked at Holston who was running a route to sit in a seam.

(add if applicable) /s

You don't see it as it happens, but before. Being a good QB is about anticipation - understanding, with film study, what tendencies are, where the coverage might go and checking down based on those types of things. If a QB does this as its happening you have what we see in Wells.

He didn't see Holston, or whoever it was in the middle of the field, because he didn't anticipate the coverage at all. And even being slow to understand the defense/coverage, that ball should never have gone to Moss. He's simply not very good atm.

Is coronavirus over yet?

I mean... I wouldn't choose to give the ball to Holston either

Free Hugh

Ok, so Wells can probably run it to gain the 1st down. Anything but throwing to Moss seems like a better alternative based on what the defense did.

This route combination is an example of what I thought we should have been doing all night. They were in a lot of zones with holes in the between the levels of the zones. This play had Holston in one hole and a crossing receiver deeper in the zone that both SHOULD have been in the QB's field of vision. But Wells never scanned the field for multiple targets. The Pick 6 he threw looked like it was on a similar route combo where he had two options crossing his field of view at different levels - and helocked onto Smith and totally missed Blumrick underneath and the two guys on the other side of the field who were both more open than Smith. It definitely seems like the coaches are trying to run route combos that cut down the options for Wells.

Just got an email for an NIL jersey offer. I wonder if I can get one with an OL number and the name False Start on the back?

Just gonna throw this here to let this sink in.

There's a realistic chance that we're 0-4 over the next 4 and lose @ ODU and @ Liberty in the same season.

(add if applicable) /s

There's a realistic chance we lose out, frankly.

This team is garbage, and the coaching staff is not ready for the big time.

Realistically, I imagine we'll pull out 2-3 wins from the schedule (GT, Liberty, UVA) but my pre-season prediction of not being bowl eligible is holding firm. We're at best a 5 win team with a soft schedule.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

My $300 bet on 7 wins is what they call a sunk cost.

(add if applicable) /s

My brother, you are the soft schedule

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Pre-snap penalties, bad play calls are on the coaches.

Missed free access TDs, dumb turnovers, are on the players.

I'm going to say what I've been saying/thinking since Pry filled out his staff.

I do not understand hiring a whole bunch of guys with razor-thin resumes to support a first-time Head Coach.

Whit bragged about how much money he was committing to this new staff and we went and hired an Offensive Coordinator who has basically never done the job before.

They all get long leashes because of the incredible damage Fuente did to this program, but I will never understand why we didn't find an OC with some experience. Maybe you bring Bowen in as a position coach to make him the defacto OC in waiting and learn under someone, but he's not ready to be a P5 OC.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

I do not understand hiring a whole bunch of guys with razor-thin resumes to support a first-time Head Coach.

I tend to agree with this statement - I don't like the idea of a first time coach and two first time coordinators. But Whit needs to let Pry hire who Pry wants to hire. I'm willing to give the staff time, but I would be lying if I wasn't underwhelmed by the OC hire. Granted, I was lobbying for Brad Glen to get hired and take his GSU offense here. And we actually did hire Glen to be our QB coach... but we're not using the RPO, which is annoying...

Twitter me

Oh I for sure would not have supported Whit getting involved in the OC hiring (at least not in terms of dictating), especially considering his lackluster history of hiring football coaches...

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

History being a sample size of 1?

I meant during his entire career.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

So sample size of 2, with the other being Tommy Tuberville at UC who went to 3 bowl games in his first 3 seasons. Probably not that suspect of a hire at UC.

I don't think you can draw any conclusions on Whit's ability to hire head football coaches based on his "history".

Would a larger sample size give us a better idea of his hiring prowess? Sure, but we don't have one. Football is make or break for an Athletic Department, so a single bad hire can all but sink a program as we're seeing now.

Fuente was a complete and utter disaster. Tuberville wasn't *bad* but I'm not sure a guy who has two decent years, a 7-6 year, and then a 4-8 year with all bowl appearances being losses is a great success either.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

honest question but what's the distinction between lackluster and acceptable? Was James Franklin a good hire at PSU? Harbaugh at UM? Jimbo at A&M?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller


All I'm saying is Whit doesn't have a resume that screams "this guy is excellent at hiring football coaches" to the point that I'd want him overly involved in hiring an OC - which is what I was talking about earlier in the thread.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

I agree with Whit not being involved in hiring an OC. I also agree that he's not a Head Football Coach whisperer, too. I won't say his history is bad because, frankly the sample size is too small and hiring head coaches is sorta like getting a hit in baseball, except if you do hit a coaching hire, hopefully you won't have to do it again for a long time.

They recruit well enough, so yes, they are acceptable

Free Hugh

For a P5 school, that bowl record doesn't scream success, but UC is a G5 school

The hit rate on football coaching hires is low. Every school that has played for a NC or in the playoff in the last 15 years has had at least 1 bad coaching hire in the last 3 that they've made (and for most it was probably 2).

Again, not *bad* but also not "this guy hits home runs with his hires" in the way that he massively overachieved with the Buzz hire + following up with a diamond in the rough like Mike Young.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

I agree with this take. Pry is a defensive guy so I was fine with him going after a young up-and-comer with potential but limited experience as DC. However, it would have a made a whole lot more sense to me if Pry had hired a real, proven, experienced OC to run the offense while Pry inevitably focused more on defense. I don't really hate the Bowen hire but it also doesn't excite me at all. He hasn't shown anything yet to make me think he's some savant who can polish the turd that is our offensive roster. He has the most to prove, IMO, and he hasn't proved anything yet. We're only 4 games in and we're pretty much right where most people thought we'd be (2-2) so I'm not pulling out my pitch-fork yet. Fuente left a huge mess to clean up and it's going to take time to clean it up. I'm just not super optimistic that these are the right guys to do it. We'll know more in a couple years. But it's going to be a frustrating ride. We're just a bad team right now and that's not going to get fixed over night.

Onward and upward

We're on the same page.

I didn't get it, but I'm not going to pretend to know college football well enough to understand who a good OC hire would be.

That being said, he gets time to prove himself, get his recruits in place etc. etc.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

WVU is a bad team. VT is just a worse team. The better team won last night. And it's annoying, because they're not even that good. They'll probably win 6 games this year.

WVU has more talent on Offense than VT does. That was probably the big difference. Donaldson, Ford-Wheaton, Daniels all are more talented than their VT counterparts. Defensively I think we held our own in the first half but when you concede TOP by almost a 2:1 ratio it's hard to keep your first team defense fresh enough to stay competitive. The anemic offense really screwed us. Honestly, this could have been a much worse score line. WVU was held to like 3 fgs on drives that a lesser defense would have yielded TDs.

We're looking at a stretch of games that we likely won't be able to get a single win from. I think there is a greater than good chance that we'll head into November at 2-6. The last stretch of games against GT, LU, Duke, UVA will be interesting. I think we probably go 2-2 or 1-3 through that stretch. I think we'll beat UVA because, until they prove otherwise, VT is the better team year in and year out. We might beat GT. I think Liberty will kill us and Duke is, surprisingly, much better than anyone expected. I don't think that's a game we can count on winning.

Onward and upward

Defensively I think we held our own in the first half but when you concede TOP by almost a 2:1 ratio it's hard to keep your first team defense fresh enough to stay competitive.

And when almost half of one side of the stadium doesn't come back after halftime to cheer you on... That had to be demoralizing for the players to see. People might think guys don't notice that, but I'd be willing to bet they do.

Warning- Filter lost.

"Look at this... This is just spectacular.... These people are losing their minds"

Honestly, that was a pretty piss poor showing from the students last night. It was glaring on TV that a significant portion of the student body abandoned the team at halftime, during a Thursday night game against West Virginia in what was a 1 score game at the time.

This is my school
This is home

I dont blame them for leaving - they knew how this was going to end. It absolutely sucks and its not a good look, but they aren't dummies. We have seen this story play out numerous times over the course of the last 10 years, and much more so in the last 5. Even Beamer throughout his career had challenges coming back after halftime. We have a recent history of keeping games close against decent teams only to completely fall apart in the 2nd half. I certainly saw this coming but hoped for the best last night, but my texts with my WVU frenemies last night basically said this was going to end up in a lopsided WVU.

and FWIW - their absence from the student section was hardly noticeable on TV. So I think its hard to say this had an impact on the audience watching this from their living room.

Judging by what most of the girls were wearing, I'm going to guess most got pretty damn cold.

I changed bars at half time and most seemed pretty miserable and didn't seem to expect it to be windy and in the mid 50s by 9pm.

Our football team is bad and has been bad for years and largely irrelevant/middling for years before that. 18nyear old kids just don't care as much as they used to, and can you blame em?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

So obviously no GIFtory but I would love it if someone that knows how to create GIFs can do one of that guy flipping the double birds before going to commercial in the third quarter, his face and immediate regret, and then sitting back down.

For me that was the only real "highlight" of the game last night.

I missed this one. I did see the other kid flip the bird to the refs on one of the calls (believe it was Dax's roughing the passer). The camera panned to the stands for a couple seconds and he was leaning out with the double birds.

uva - the taint of the ACC

I'm not sure I have much of anything to add to this other than some perspective. Most of the world knew/knows that this was going to be a major rebuild - not just this year, but the next 3. The previous regime put us in a very bad spot with talent in general which was supposed to be aligned to prior staff's defensive and offensive approach. We're switched the scheme on both sides of the ball with players that aren't used to playing, and its going to look ugly.

We have a LOT of rebuilding to do and at a minimum we have to be patient. Yes we can get upset, but calling for this staff's termination already is 100% unfair to the staff and administration. I have some serious concerns about the coaching in a couple areas, namely our new OC and OL coaches, but again they done have THEIR players in place and really wont until 2+ years from now.

I'm really disappointed with the apparent lack of discipline on this team which is turning into penalties, but last night was (probably) a combination of youth and the refs calling this game very tight. The ones that piss me off the most were the penalties before the snap. The ones after, for the most part (even for the ones that went our way) could have easily been no-calls if the refs decided to let the players play (see the roughing the passer calls).

Bottom line is that we're going to take some serious lumps this year and next. If the core of those players can grow and hang around in the program for year 3 there is going to be some good talent that knows the schemes, and they're going to be pissed off.

Be patient, be supportive, and be cordial.

To the students filing out at half time down 6, your bloodline is weak and history will forget you. Piss off. That's fucking embarrassing.

I'm sad. I miss the days of those games being winnable. It felt like we were always hanging on by a thread. Fu left a mess, Pry and co have to get better at certain aspects. I expected a loss, just not looking like that. I don't know what else I thought would happen.


That was the worst. Students show up obnoxious and drunk and leave by halftime. The program is just completely dead at this point. We are a flashy entrance and that's it now.

Well, the games aren't that fun because we aren't that good, and if I only have a student ticket's worth of money invested, I might would want to just go party with friends instead of being cold and mad in crowd. Winning would fix that.

Would you like Prys with that?

Yeah sure winning would fix that.

But we were down by 6 when they started leaving in droves....the game was far from over. That's like leaving a basketball game at half time down 2. It's inexcusable.


Eh, with this offense, down by 6 might as well be down by 28.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Historic somewhat related note, I was at (what I consider) one of the most amazing college basketball games I ever saw. VT vs. Southern Miss in mid 80s(1987 I think but could be off by a year). Hokies down 62-48 at the half, came back to tie it at 110 all in regulation, 121 all after 1st OT and won in the second OT 141-132. Yet some folks left the game- NOT in the second half when we were down a lot..but in between the first and second OTs. How anyone could leave a game like that at that point is beyond my imagination!

The exodus of students at the Wofford game , I 'somewhat' understood- beautiful sunny day- early kick-game really never in doubt (even if not as dominant as we'd have liked); but yeah..last night seeing folks leaving before mid to late 4th quarter(at which point we went down 2 scores) was disappointing.

From the 2018 VT-uva game-"This is when LEGENDS are made!"

I was there too. Hell of a game.

My wife takes the kids and leaves the house while I watch my Hokie games.........nuff said

I'm so glad I decided to take a 30mg edible last night or I probably would have thrown something at my TV from all the undisciplined penalties lol.

I knew this team was going to struggle to get to 5-6 wins, and honestly, they may struggle to get to 3-4, especially with next 4 games coming up.

This is going to be a process. Pry & staff was dealt a shit hand. But I am not making excuses for them either. The stubbornness of wanting to keep running it up the middle when it wasn't working and the penalties falls on their shoulders just as much as the players.

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

What I don't understand is the mentality that we should expect these coaches to adapt to their players.

If we are acknowledging that the scheme and coaching of old sucked and were unable to decelop players, then why the hell would we want the new coaches to break from what they think works (and proved themselves implementing elsewhere, like Rudolph)?

You gotta break some eggs.

Its a tough line to walk. Do you just sit here and drill an OL that's not a power OL to run power football for a season knowing that we're probably going to lose games because of it but in the long run we maybe develop a guy or two that is important down the road. Or do we adjust how we're coaching adapt to what we have fail to develop the identity that we want but grab a few wins on the way.

(add if applicable) /s

I don't think it's possible to successfully develop players and win games teaching two different blocking schemes simultaneously.

grab a few wins on the way

I am not sure we would that many more games (maybe ODU). And does 1 more win make us feel any better if we still have a losing record?

Sometimes you have to take steps back to move forward. It sucks when you're going backwards, but when (I'm going to be an optimist) we start moving in the right direction it will feel really good.

I don't think we are saying completely change the scheme (like go run and shoot, spread or triple option). We're saying play to your strengths. We are a MUCH better pass blocking than run blocking. So call more pass plays. Also get the ball to playmakers in space (RPOs, sweeps, reverses, short outs, etc.).

Take that 4th and 1. Imagine our shotgun, but Wells breaks (hard) to the wide side. TE aligns tight, fanes down block, then drags across behind LBs. maybe even have the wide side WR clear out the DB (if he follows, one less blocker, if not TD).

You could even have Blumrick run this and foot race to the corner with a pull up throw option.

We put the K in Kwality

Also get the ball to playmakers in space (RPOs, sweeps, reverses, short outs, etc.).

This is what I don't get at all - I presume we hired Brad Glen for his expertise in the RPO. But we're not using the RPO. We can't get our best offensive player (king) going up the middle... okay, let's try sweeps, screens, etc.\

That said, I can't imagine that doing any of these things would stunt OL development?

Twitter me

We are just an amalgam of different things/philosophies on offense that aren't really meshing with our personnel. We are determined to have a downhill power running game and don't have the personnel to do it. Glenn has background in an RPO offense and we aren't running it, but he's coaching QBs. Want to have physical OL play but run blocking is so bad. It's a mess.

That's a great point...stunting growth. Our OL is a 6-yr SR, rJR, rSR, SO, SO.

Why not play the younger guys and give them game experience? There is no point in losing with the old guys.

We put the K in Kwality

Probably because the younger guys have shown any/enough progress in camp

Twitter me

1.9 ypc...how bad could the backup scholarship OLs be?

We put the K in Kwality

Worst than 1.9ypc? 1.8, 1.7, 1.6... or worse.

Twitter me

To be fair (insert Letterkenney), we are playing 2 SOs. I think those still qualify as young.

Incoming freshman don't usually have the physical development to be even remotely effective on the OL. And if they are getting pushed around by our DLine in practice, just imagine what would happen in a game against a well developed and skilled DLine.

Little Moore played 2 snaps and had the best run blocking grade on the team.

The entire OL and TEs run blocking have regressed a ridiculous amount since last year. They were decent last year and atrocious this year. It doesn't make sense other than coaching.

We put the K in Kwality

Uh, 2 snaps. Hardly a sample size. I agree that it's coaching, but not poor coaching, just a change in blocking scheme that maybe everyone has not picked up well, yet. And that is causing them to think too much.

This exactly what I was gonna say. 2 snaps isn't even a sample size tbh. And there's more than one reason it takes o-lineman longer to develop and find the field. There's also a reason that o-lineman don't transfer often and that returning production on your o-line is so important. This will take time. Give it the time it needs.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Right...but none of that addresses why players who do have experience and have blocked better in the past (Clements, Dzansi, Gallo, Deiilius) are all objectively performing significantly worse this season.

That's where my problem lies.

I don't pretend to be an offensive line technique expert, but French has pointed out multiple examples of bad angles and/or poor technique (frequently both together) in review of the prior games.

Those sorts of things aren't Talent issues, nor are they related to being mentally tied-up by a new system. These are things that should be ironed out in the Preseason. The fact that they haven't been at all has to be at very least concerning as to the level of coaching that is being offered.

I agree that it's too early to jump off board on a guy with Rudolph's resume, but I also think it's unwise to simply assume that because he's had success in the past we should look over obvious issues in on-field play and competency.

Those sorts of things aren't Talent issues, nor are they related to being mentally tied-up by a new system. These are things that should be ironed out in the Preseason. The fact that they haven't been at all has to be at very least concerning as to the level of coaching that is being offered.

Except it does and French has said as much. They are unlearning the system Vice taught and learning Rudolph's system. If you are thinking about where you need to block, you not going to do well blocking.

I agree that it's too early to jump off board on a guy with Rudolph's resume, but I also think it's unwise to simply assume that because he's had success in the past we should look over obvious issues in on-field play and competency.

Well, you kind of do have to trust the guy you just hired, and that does mean you have to give him some leeway and time as he changes the system.

Four games in? Yeah, way too soon.

Sorry I wasn't implying that 2 snaps changed everything. More that it was funny we finally made a change and it showed results (albeit small sample size). and it took until game for to substitute. Also keep in mind Pry himself said Moore was difference maker and would definitely play and be in the rotation...yet he didn't play at all until this game (and then even two snaps). Seemed Wofford was the perfect time to get him and some of the backup significant playing time to build cohesion.

We put the K in Kwality

So call more pass plays.

We DID call 35 pass plays to 18 runs last night.

From the 2018 VT-uva game-"This is when LEGENDS are made!"

I'm not happy. But I'm also not raising hell yet because, for cryin' out loud, it's game 4 of year 1. This was a game that probably 90+% of TKP predicted as a loss before the season started. Even more people probably saw this as a loss after the ODU debacle. So there's not really anything surprising here. It is not unique for teams to look really bad in the first year under a new coach. In fact, it is really rare for teams to look good in the first year under a new coach. We need to step back and understand that this first year, probably the first two, tbh, will be really really tough. We need more talent. We need to instill a new and better culture. The players need time to develop. The coaches need time to recruit and develop the guys to execute the schemes they want to run. None of this happens over night. The penalties are a bad look. But it's also just game 4 of year 1. And, frankly, some of those penalties were pretty soft. I didn't really like the way the refs called the game. We benefitted from it too. There were at least two PI calls that went against WVU that I don't think should have been called. But I'll take them. The roughing the passer on Wells was soft too but then again, so was the one on Daniels. The refs sucked, but at least they were consistent (except on the play clock - that was just bad).

We're going to look bad this year. I don't think we can use this season, or any individual game, as enough evidence to either anoint or declare these coaches as unfit. Good coaches can have a bad year or two, especially at the beginning of the rebuild job. But we'll know by the end of year 3 just how good (or bad) these coaches are. If we're still having a game or two each year where we have over 100 yards of penalties sinking our chances then we know we're in trouble. But its far, far too early to panic at this stage.

Onward and upward

Fu deserves a lot of the blame for the current state of the program.

The discipline level is on Pry. Those drive extending penalties on 3rd and 4th down are unacceptable. The 132 penalty yards is un-fucking acceptable.

The offensive play calling is as stale as its ever been. 35 fucking rushing yards. We will not win another ACC game if we are going to continue to be so one-dimensional. The continued efforts to go for it on 4th and 1 out of the shotgun right up the gut is fucking idiotic, it is not working. The only surprise on the attempt last night was that it wasnt a hand off to Holston, then stuffed for a loss.

We were lied to about Wells. WVU had the right idea by passing on him. To add to our 35 fucking rushing yards, Wells went 11-18 for 128 yards and a TD in the first half, 5-17 and 76 yards in the second half. He makes me miss Burmeister, and I never liked Burmeister...shit...Wells has me looking back fondly at the Grant Noel days

The defense is good enough to keep us in games, they held a very good WVU offense to 16 pts and 300 yards going into the 4th. But the inability of the offense to move the ball (combination of play calls and a QB that can at times drop a dime, and on the very next play sail it over an open receiver by 15 yards), the 4th quarter breakdown was inevitable.

Going into the season, I bought the lies, I thought sure we'd get 8 wins. Last night reminded me that we have not been a mid-level team for the past few years. We were mid when Fuente took over, we were on a 6 year downward slide. We are a flat out ass team right now, and it is going to take a lot of time, and a lot of work, just to get back to being mid. At this point, I'm thinking 4 maybe 5 wins on the year if we catch some lucky breaks.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Sheeew those stats through 4 games

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

More depressing that passing is the only way we can move the ball. This is the better half of the offensive.

Free Hugh

I'm so glad the defense looks fixed and am very excited for that side of the ball.

But unfortunately at least to this point FuCorn would have got more out of these players on offense than the current staff has. It remains to be seen what happens with new recruits, but we should not be married to this offensive staff. If by year 3 they haven't show us anything there is no reason not to go out and hire an established OC, like a Jeff Lebby type

I am pretty sure that Pry will make that decision if necessary.

Of the remaining games, ESPN has VT winning GT and UVA.

Go Hokies!

I wouldn't bet money on us winning either of them

This is my school
This is home

I feel like we win maybe two more games this year, hopefully 3. I think we will win at least one that we are not supposed to win, maybe NC State, who knows.

Buy yeah, my revised projection is 4 wins (beginning of the year I was thinking 6)

Yeah I've been sitting on 4 wins since before the season.

The kicker is, at that point I was counting on a win over ODU or Liberty to help get us to 4 wins. Right now, I'm not confident we'll win @Liberty. So you're talking about beating 2 of @Duke, GT, and UVa. Given the team we have and the lack of depth we are seeing, I'm not sure that's reasonable. I genuinely think we're gonna get pants'd by the rest of the schedule.

So we very well could end the season 3-9 this year, and that's with one of the weaker schedules in the country.

This is my school
This is home

Nah we beating UNCheat fam

I'm kinda into this tbh. UNC defense is about as bad as our offense. We have a long week to recover. If our offense can make some plays, and defense plays decent, I think we can do it.

I give us a 40-45% chance of winning based on no science, just my gut.

Twitter me

We play at UNC in the rain again. Tar Holes don't like water. I like our odds.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

They have a run game, we don't. I am not sure I like our odds.

the question is: will they use their run game? Because the last time we played in a hurricane they also had a run game and didn't use it. They had, IIRC, two of the best RBs in the league at the time and instead relied on Mitch Trubisky to win with his arm (LOL). It didn't work out for them.

Onward and upward

We didn't have a run game against WV, I doubt unc has the same bodies or skill up front

I'm still figuring this out.

Why can't we call a play in the huddle and go execute the play called? Instead we have to have a sideline read, call an audible, yada yada. Gives us no rhythm and no wonder why we have so many pre-snap penalties. Call a play and go execute. Keep it simple.

I'm going to put this out there but... perhaps Funete/Cornelson's offenses were getting the more out of our talent than we gave them credit? Their downfall may have had more to do with recruiting and culture than coaching ability. Because our level of offensive talent is horrible right now. Its really odd too because lesser programs in our region can put together a competent offense, yet we consistently can't.

Nah, there's a reason that not a single one of those coaches is currently employed at any mid or high level FBS or FCS team this year.

This is my school
This is home

Plus the whole expected outcomes I.e. no reads allowed implementation: can't believe they were actually good coaches

I'm still figuring this out.

It's impossible to make that comparison right now. Corn/Fu had NFL talent on the OL for every season except maybe the last season, had talent at WR, brought in two NFL caliber running backs that we constantly hid behind, and ran our qb's into a meat pulverizer every season. I'm still in the camp that our offenses worked at times in spite of Corn/Fu.

(add if applicable) /s

With number 6 Blue should just walk off and go to Taco Bell.

Do y'all think we lose to WVU, Miami, and LOLUVA this year? We haven't lost to all 3 in the same season since 1992.

WVU - yes, Miami - probably, and LOLUVA - absolutely not.

(add if applicable) /s

I think Miami moved that probably to a maybe today.

Love watching football fans overreact to the first four games of Year Zero. I hate losing to WVU as much as the next Hokie, but take a deep breath. We're a bad field goal snap away from being 3-1. And it's Year Zero of a complete rebuild possibly a teardown. Come back with these takes in Year 1 or better yet, Year 2-3.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Please step away from the railing! No need to jump. It took years to run the ship a ground and it will take a few to get us back where we need to be. We will get there, we have a good leader. He doesn't have a lot to work with but he will. Just be patient and let him clean up the shyt show of you know who. We have the X and O's and will be getting the Tom and Joe's. Just try to relax!!!! It's been a hard few years and we have to play our role as fans. Our energy must match that of the new staff, trust me recruits do need to feel the fan base energy. I had to cut the tube off too but still bleed burnt orange! HOKIES๐Ÿ’ช๐Ÿพ๐Ÿ’ช๐Ÿพ๐Ÿ’ช๐Ÿพ๐Ÿ’ช๐Ÿพ๐Ÿ”ฅ

If I recall correctly, you are Mook's father. Good to see you're still sticking around the program and TKP. Hope Mook is doing well.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

His decision was made after a phone call with longtime Virginia Tech assistant coach Bud Foster. All Foster told him was, "We win. They don't."

Late in the first half, we are up 7-6 but it felt like we were losing, and just hanging on. Or maybe just lucky.
Then WVU marches down the filed in 50 seconds and scores a TD before half. Then I knew we were not to escape fate.

Pry nailed it. The guys panicked. You could feel the jitters. Green, inexperienced, and nervous. That was
One of the major reasons for all of the penalties too

When I was in school during the Tyrod years, I'd hate it when we weren't aggressive before the half. I was begging for us to try and bleed the clock and be up by 1 at half. Felt like a team on the ropes and that drive just confirmed my fears. I'd love to just see improvement throughout the year.

THIS. I'm mildly obsessed with what Nick Saban does the last 2 minutes of the first half regularly - it's genius. When I see anyone else waste the last minute, even :30, I'm thinking. "Saban would have gotten atl east 3pts in that time". Arkansas is wishing they had something like that after the soul-cruahing way that game ended. I doubt I will ever live long enough to see another fg attempt bounce off the very top of the goal post.

'89 Hokie alum, former staff, former faculty. Living in Jawja - a rescue Dawg married to a Fauxkie. Navigating the curious spaces between the ACC and the SEC since 2009.

Hey, if it's any consolation, the ACC has 5 teams in the Top 25 and we sit atop the Coastal. All is not lost s/

generic complaint about jims and joes
generic complaint about shotgun run on 4th and 1
generic complaint about tackling

Fuck Fuente

The only football program that has wasted more talent than Fuente is Texas

The only football program that has wasted more talent than Fuente is Texas

Every Miami team ever? UNC?

I stand by my statement shitpost

You have to admit, Miami and UNC are powerful counterpoints.

Even UVa deserves honorable mention in this category.