So I decided to go ahead and start a new thread, hoping that enough of you are now back all in after the first two episodes as much as I am.
Obviously Ep 1 big reveal was the Aegon I dreamed of the long winter and the doom of men on Westeros, calling his dream the "Song of Ice and Fire" which is a bit of retconning the end of GOT S8 with Sam giving it that name.
Ep2 was awesome with the scene at Dragon Stone. Rhaenyra has serious Danerys vibes so far through two episodes.
Anyway, hoping enough of you want to discuss the new series that it warrants this new thread.
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Let's just say if they stick anywhere close to the "history" as Martin has laid it out, this show could get rather bonkers
No spoilers from those of us that read Fire & Blood
I have definitely already read a few book spoilers so far (i.e. Viserys second wife). Kind of hard to ignore in some of the episode recaps, some of these writers will expose book spoilers but for the most part nothing too huge.
Either way, I am all in on this one so far, and as long as they only use source material we can hopefully avoid the shit show that was S7 and S8 of GoT.
We've alway ready seen this show pull a s8. You see GoT was best at the beginning where it had the most nudity. It was worse at the end when it had no nudity. So you see the writing is only as good as the nudity. There is a direct causation that nudity produces better written episodes in GoT. And we saw this with the first episode of this series to the 2nd episode. It's just all down hill without them hiring Esme Bianco to play an ancestor of Ros. /s
The show is good. The scene at Dragonstone was the highlight of the episode 2, but the conversations are equally as interesting. This is not a show you can "watch in the background", so to speak.
Watching Viserys struggle with being the king when you can tell he is a good man, but everyone keeps telling him to the effect of "you are the king and can do whatever you want" is an interesting twist from the rest of the Targaryens we are used to (even his own daughter lacks in this area).
Matt Smith is just good in most everything he does, and he is a great "villian".
most everything yes. cough * morbius * cough *
I said most :)
The scene where Rhaenyra rides Syrax in through the cloud cover at Dragonstone was brilliant.
agreed. that entire scene was damn good. I hope the actress they change to when Rhaenyra is older is as good as the one now.
Episode 3 was pretty good, finally some battle scenes and some serious dragon action.
Things are starting to ramp up so things could get crazy.
I basically want to talking anything but football. May start a Rings of Power thread too, first two episodes were amazing.
A simple "5yrs later" or something would help with keeping up with the timeline on my end lol
lol if you think its hard keeping track now, just wait, in 2 weeks a decent chunk of the actors and actresses change because of a more thorough time jump
I've thought they've done a pretty decent job so far not so subtly telling you how much time has passed. Like in episode 2, I think Viserys said some line about it being 6 months since he talked to someone (I think his daughter), indicating that much time had passed since the last episode. Then in episode 3, Aegon is already at his 2nd birthday. Since he wasn't around in episode 2, not hard to put together how much time has passed. Also, they mentioned Daemon and the Sea Snake had been fighting the Crab Feeder for about 3 years when at the end of episode 2 they were just starting to make plans to start the fight.
Yeah, well I'm not exactly the sharpest light in the toolshed, feel me?
The fact that it aegon was 'out of infancy' told us.
But, I also knew (from reading stuff) that the show would be spanning decades. I believe that they have a second actress playing Rhynera when she reaches late adulthood.
both shows are pretty good. I would be in favor of a Rings of Power thread as well, at the very least to help keep the storylines of each separate in my head because I've noticed I am already starting to get them a bit jumbled.
This show is just good. Watching Daemon just wreck the Crab Feeder...that whole scene was...*chefs kiss*
The dialogue is very strong as well. The scenes with Viserys and Rhaenyra were good television
3 episodes and already a CGI eff up.....
Honestly hadnt noticed the fingers being missing after his little grub experiment went wrong I would assume.
Thing that threw me off the most in all of the show so far was a pug at the party kind of a wtf from me not thinking dogs like that were around in medieval fantasy.
Episode wasn't bad but was my least favorite so far. I liked the first half with the tension between Rhaenyra Alicent Viserys and Aegon. But the whole crabfeeder thing was weird. I know Daemon and the Sea Snake spend a couple years fighting him and it brings tension with the crown and gives both of them battle experience. But I thought the show would maybe flesh out the crabfeeder and the Triarchy a little more. We're moving fast because this story takes place over like 30 years, so I'm fine not spending too much time in the Stepstones on a side quest, but I didn't really enjoy the battle scene.
Who are the dragon riders? I'm guessing one is Rhaenys, but is the other Laenor? I don't have my book in front of me, but I don't remember him being a rider although he does have Targaryen blood.
It was Laenor. And yep, he does have Targaryen blood via his mom, Rhaenys
I kinda had the opposite opinion - war tends to be a slow burn for those not living nearby the war zone, especially when the war drags on for years. The skipping head really resonated with me. Kinda like how a lot of American civilians forgot that there was a war going on in Afghanistan.
Pun intended?
In all seriousness, I think the details of the war are being glossed over intentionally; the conflict is only important because it of its downstream political implications.
Edit: Grammar, phrasing, punctuation
Episode 3 was great for me in terms of Paddy Considine's portrayal of Viserys and his struggles with the role of king. We've seen so many versions of kings that sit the Iron Throne, but his is perhaps the most tortured that we've seen. Spectacular work from him this episode, as well as all of the scenes with him and Rhaenyra; the tension they have is great. I also hope the new actors do as well as the younger ones, because I also think Milly Alcock is doing a phenomenal job as Rhaenyra.
Last nights episode was pretty good, but it felt like one of those "just moving the story forward" kind of episodes. Next week will probably the last episode before we switch to the older actors for Rhanerya and Allicent, who knows if they do it mid episode or not.
I know the book readers have noted that this series could get crazy, so I am still waiting for a "Red Wedding" type episode before too long here.
I feel like this past episode tried to be philosophically deep in ways that it hasn't yet earned. Its very much trying to live off the hype and memory of GoT to the point where I don't think it necessarily cares to world build for is current storyline. It just threw us into it and expects us to just connect and sympathize with all the characters, but the problem is that right now I just don't.
And while I do know there have been time jumps with this series so far (that's another thing, I don't particularly like that they've basically hit fast forward on the backstory with the time jumps over the first 4 episodes) but they haven't really done a great job on making the actors and actresses look older as the time has been passing. There was definitely a point in the episode last night where I wondered if they were about to show us an underaged actress having sex, which seems even more problematic given they haven't really tried to make her look older than 14 or 16 so far. Given what we know about Hollywood execs.... I dunno, just felt like we were watching someone's childhood sex fantasies playing out, which was a little gross.
Yeah, for sure a little creepy with the young actresses (I think 19 and 20 when they filmed) but I think we have one more episode before it skips ahead again like 10 years or something and the older actresses take over. I get that the time jumps are a bit much but if the story happens over something like 20 or 30 year time span it is necessary.
So far I'm still in and will keep watching, but Rings of Power is definitely winning between these two shows for me right now.
Same. Still invested, but I find myself enjoying Rings of Power a bit more right now. I'm sure it'll ebb and flow if they really do go head to head for the next 5+ years like they expect, but it definitely feels like HoD is trying to gloss over some of the more nuanced world building aspects where RoP is diving head first into it.
I'm a little split. It's definitely creepy that Daemon is grooming Rhaenyra. But that's kind of the point in the story right? It's sick and wrong that he's doing it and it's a total abuse of power. He's using his niece to get back at his brother. It builds Daemon's messed up character even more beyond his reputation as a rogue Prince and I'm assuming this will explain some of Rhaenyra's actions later on. And the intention is that we're supposed to feel very uncomfortable and a disturbed by it happening.
I also watch the clip that's included immediately after the episode and the director was a woman who intentionally shot that scene from a woman's perspective. She was definitely not shooting it from the perspective of "isn't it hot to be a man having sex with a teenager?"
Out of curiosity - did you have an issue with the Viserys/Alicent sex scene? There's a bigger age gap there, Alicent is a teenager, and there was actually a sex scene.
People also need to keep in mind that in medieval times- pedophilia, incest, rape was common- women were property to do with what men wanted. Incest was very very common.
And that has been a very intentional theme with this series.
I thought it was creepy how he sent a servant to her room to fetch her. Clearly she is NOT AT ALL into it.
I agree. We all should feel like this is totally messed up! They are really driving home the absolute lack of autonomy that women have in this world.
True, and also because that is exactly what this show is about. It is about to delve into a full on war over the line of succession in the next couple episodes over the right of a female to sit on the Iron Throne.
EDIT: Oh, and the fact they have medieval Plan B abortion tea in this universe is really bringing current events into the series. Not sure if that aspect was in Fire and Blood or not, I don't think so from what I have read.
It's not really that. "Moon tea" was introduced in the original ASOIAF books, and is referenced a couple of times, at least once by Cersei in trying to determine if Margaery is being unfaithful based on Pycelle giving it to her.
I think a lot of people missed what actually happened in that scene.
Daemon started out to exert some dominance over Rhaenyra...and then it turned out she was actually into it. She was ready to go, and Daemon couldn't...perform. That's why he slammed the wall in frustration and ran out. His plan didn't work out because he doesn't actually have any power over her. He was impotent, if you will.
It was subtle, and as I've read a lot of reviews on the episode it seems to have been missed. It's also why the very next scene we see is her going back to the keep and making her Kingsguard break his oath, because she knew that she could. There was an element of her finally recognizing that she could take what she wanted. It was the point of the entire episode
You're absolutely right - and it's exactly what the director said about that scene. I should've addressed it in my comment, but I was too focused on the lead up to that scene in the Daemon/Rhaenyra interactions and how we were supposed to feel while watching that scene.
Best episode of the season so far tonight, one that got me into the show whereas before I was pretty "meh" on the series. I will say though, the decision to do time jumps has hurt the show. A lot of the events of the episode tonight and some of the relationships would have a lot more impact and meaning if they just spent season 1 spacing things out more instead of rushing to age everyone up.
Yeah, and it looks like the next episode is going to be the biggest jump so far since the new actresses for Allicent and Rhanerya will be taking over.
I know there have been a lot of complaints about the time jumps but It has not bothered me as much as others. They seem to do a pretty good job early in each episode letting you know how much time as passed. It really looks like things are about to start picking up in the next episode. Once Viserys eventually dies then I assume things really start to go crazy.
Another big takeaway from Ep 5, if you ever get invited to a wedding in Westeros go ahead and send your regrets.
I got that out of the Red Wedding episode of GOT.
Weddings be dangerous.
Especially if your name is Joffrey.
If there's one thing we've learned, it's "Don't be a Joffrey".
The other takeaway I am thinking we will see is that it is a bad idea to point out potential errors in lineage based on hair color.
I thought this last episode (and the whole season) have been stellar.
For me, Game of Thrones was great.
HOTD has been a bit lackluster. It's OK, but it's basically a vanilla version of GOT.
From this episode:
Rhaenyra is really good. Her character has gotten deeper and more complex. I know they're getting ready to change actresses. Pity.
Alicent Hightower is becoming more prominent and bold, but I'm not still not sold on the character.
What was the point of Daemon killing his wife? Just impulse? He is interesting because he's pretty ambivalent about everything. The ultimate wild card.
Sir Cristan proved himself to be kind of a moron. I get high minded ideals, but they're dangerous when mixed with stupidity. He thinks the princess would run away with him? How old is he, again? Now he's lost respect of the princess. Does he have allegiance to his princess or the queen? Once he chose the princess, he should have stuck with his choice. I feel like they got a bit lazy on this one.
OK, maybe I'm hooked.
Pretty sure he killed his wife so he's free to pursue Rhaneyra. You can tell his wife is like "what are you going to do, kill her?", he shows no reaction, then she works out he's going to try to possess Rhaneyra instead and she grabs for her bow.
Correct, but he doesn't kill her outright. She falls off her horse, and then it appears he's willing to just walk away, right up until she goads him into finishing the deed. Dispassion makes one a great warrior, but a poor politician.
Hence, ambivalence. He's not afraid of anything, but also not all that passionate about anything, and hence unpredictable. He does seem interested in being king - just not enough to do the mundane stuff (like caring what anyone thinks) that makes one fit to be king.
Quick clarification - is the Jason and Tywin Lannister supposed to be the same uncle / dad combo from GoT - isn't it about 75 years too early for them to be there? I find that one strange.
In HotD time, Jason Lannister is the Lord of Casterly Rock. He has a twin brother (played by the same actor) named Tyland Lannister, who is on Viserys' Small Council. Jason is something like the great (x3 or x4) grand father of Tywin Lannister, head of the Lannisters at the start of GoT.
Thanks - makes sense. Not a lot of creativity in names over 200 years in Westeros. Too many same / similar family names pass along to keep up with sometimes.
This is a couple of hundred years before GOT, so I don't think there's any overlap except maybe the trees.
Technically Melisandre would be alive during this time (in GoT she was supposed to be several hundred years old) but so far I don't think she is going to make an appearance since she did not appear in Fire and Blood.
That would be a nice little nod if she made a cameo though.
Good point, and yes, why not?
Maybe she does a cameo singing a campfire song with Ed Sheeran....
Because the night is dark, and full of terrors.
IMO I think the opening credits should have been some type of family tree/Ancestry.com kind of thing that could provide some details into the families and houses, similar to how GOT's map-style opening theme helped show context of the geography of Westeros.
I think there are some things like this online, but an exact family tree would be sort of a spoiler.
Right, but they could only show characters that have been revealed and that are relevant to the episode, similar to how GOT's opening map changed depending on the episode.
Not sort of. It definitely is. I didn't read Fire and Blood, but I could outline the high points of where this show is going just based off having seen the family tree. Which is kinda fine because I have no idea how exactly we get to certain milestones.
I feel like this latest episode is being slightly overhyped in reviews, but it was good. I think it was just the first real bit of shocking violence that GoT became known for so people thought it was amazing. Personally I'm wondering how Ser Criston could do such a thing and then be allowed to wander off and roam the Red Keep for hours lol. It would have been much more real and less plot-hole-ish if Laenor refused to go along with the wedding until Criston's head was on a pike and that was how the episode ended, but I get the need to drag out some relationship stuff between him and Rhaenyra.
Breakbones just wading into the mob of people during the madness and grabbing Rhaenyra out of it was pretty funny though lol. I like how he hasn't really had any big role yet but just keeps popping up here and there.
So far this dude might be my favorite character. Based on the preview for the next episode, which will feature a large time jump this time (like 10 years) I think he will be playing a bigger role in the second half of the season.
Well, so much for my new favorite character. RIP Breakbones.
Seriously. A brutal murder happens in the middle of the wedding welcome feast with the entire Kingsguard there. By the princess's sworn protector. And somehow, not only is he allowed to take his time in the murder, but he just wonders off by himself afterwards.
This was the best episode so far, but it seems they took a bit of a shortcut there.
Just a side note, I enjoyed the music in this episode.
Episode 6...yeah...that was too big of a time jump. Way too much going on and to take in, especially considering how eventful the previous episode was
I'm back to "this series isn't grabbing me".
As much as I like dragons, this is far too predictable, and I'm not really endeared to any of the characters.
I'm OK with the time jumps, but some element of connectiveness with the audience needs to be established and maintained.
edit:
GOT had characters that fans loved or hated, and some (albeit superficial) ideals. I don't sense much of that in HOTD. Is there a higher ideal than "every man for himself" here? Does anyone other than Viserys care about anyone outside of the royal court?
This is a story about the royal house specifically. Who outside of the court should they care about?
I'll give some examples:
Danaerys cared about slaves, dragons, and even the Dothraki.
Eddard Stark cared about the Northmen.
Jon Snow cared about the Nights Watch, and later about the Wildlings.
Tyrion cared about prostitutes, and later the residents of Kings Landing. Also the future of the whole kingdom.
Granted, GOT had a lot of seasons to develop, but in HOTD, which main character cares about anyone outside the castle walls?
But Game of Thrones was about a multitude of families/people that wanted to rule, and showing who they cared about was important. It was meant to give us the audience some semblance of why we should root for said family/person.
House of the Dragon is about one family in control with freaking dragons. It becomes about that family fighting against themselves.
I'm not disagreeing with you, just saying that it sounds like you want to watch a show that this show isn't.
Spoiler alert: at the end of this show a Targaryen is still going to be in charge.
Spoiler it's me. APrimus Targaryen👀
I know a lot of people hate the time jumps, but personally I like them. Reading about the series ahead of time I knew this was going to be the case, so maybe that is why I don't have an issue with it. I thought last nights episode was great.
I think both the time jumps and the wiping the board of characters quickly makes this a lot more simple than the original GoT. Daemon has lost 2 wives; the 10 year hand of the king and the father of the bastard heir gets 12 minutes of air time before burning up. Its really rushed and goes back to the same 4 characters.
One of the great things about GoT was the time it invested in introducing dozens of characters so that you had a connection to their outcome - its seems like the writers were concerned they were only going to get 1-2 seasons of HOTD so they wanted to make sure they could tell the entire story before being cancelled. And while its a good show its not going to get to the level of GoT because its a straight forward story about 4 people.
Caught episode 6 last night and dang, are they trying to wrap this whole thing up in like 2-3 seasons? This was the first episode that just felt "off" to me. I also felt like the two new actresses didn't really have much continuity from how their younger predecessors played the parts.
I think they were going for some sort of emotional episode between the deaths of the two characters (well really three if you count the dad). Unfortunately they only gave us like 10 mins of screen-time for each so I felt next to nothing lol. I literally can't even remember Daemon's wife's name, and have to think for a sec to remember what Breakbone's actual name was.
Other question: how does one set an entire castle on fire?
I disagree. Olivia Cooke did an incredible job as Alicent in episode 6. It felt like she played a very clear adult version of the character from the previous episode. She's angrier, more bitter, and also more confident in herself now. She's playing the game of thrones a bit, but is clearly also rooted in her desire to act honorably and dutifully.
I'm not sure yet when it comes to Emma D'Arcy as Rhaenyra. It's a tough one to figure out for me because the character went through so many life changes. 10 years of a false marriage and having 3 children while constantly being questioned and pressured over being the heir is a lot to endure. Tough to say if the portrayal is true to the character (as someone who hasn't read Fire and Blood). But, we still see Rhaenyra's strength and self-assurance.
From what I can recall from press interviews (my memory can be entirely wrong too so grain of salt here), I believe they originally intended to shoot for 3 to 4 seasons.
I'm going to have to see how the next few episodes go. The time jump was a little jarring but we all knew it was coming, so not a huge deal. After watching episode 6, I'm just not sure who I'm rooting for. Characters in the GOT universe are obviously complex, there's no pure good guy/bad guy thing, and I love that, but you've got to have someone to get behind to really stay invested. I guess Rhaenyra is supposed to be our sympathetic figure? I'm just not sure I feel it right now, but since the source material is all out there, we are basically just following along with a known story and everything is predictable. The individual acting has been great, and the visuals very impressive, but I wonder if there's enough of an engaging story to keep things moving. There's no real building of tension at this point, just individual events that are supposed to be leading us down a road. But they've done more in 6 episodes than like 3-4 seasons of the original GOT, so that's wild.
I was fine with the time jump this episode. I thought it was the right idea to start immediately with the two new actresses, and I thought they picked up the roles just fine. The jump really was not a distraction at all to me after the first few seconds of "oh yeah they jumped ahead"
Yeah, I agree and I'm also curious if the time jumps slow down after this season. It feels like they are setting everything up for the Targaryen Civil war AKA "The Dance of the Dragons" so perhaps subsequent seasons will have less time jumps. It feels like season 1 is just setting up all the events that lead to the civil war.
So is it a rule that GOT/HOTD has to make at least one episode where its so darkly lit that I have to adjust the settings on my screen to see wtf is going on?
I always watch star wars, GOT you name it when its a big show I watch lights off so I can see it all in its intended glory and this episode was a darker one sure but I think that was definitely intentional.
Good episode, where the battle lines were definitively drawn/renewed.
This episode brought decisive action and intrigue (reminiscent of GOT). Lines were crossed, relationships changed. Rhaenyra visits her dark side! Alicent shows hers in public! Otto is hand again. Aemond loses an eye, but gains a dragon.
The die is pretty much cast for the children, as the adults have abandoned any sense of holding it together at this point.
What's up with Larys? What motivates that guy? Did Rhaenyra turn him down for a date when they were 5? He's done an excellent job of appealing to Alicent's dark side (and taking actions that she didn't even know about/wouldn't approve of).
I kind of view Larys like he is the Littlefinger of his era, and I think being a second son on top of being a cripple has made him this way. He definitely has some level of influence behind the scenes, and you have to be really messed up to have your own father and brother killed. Well now is he is lord of Harenhall... chaos is a ladder.
Allicent is clearly wary of him after he had his own father and brother killed, but its clear that she knows she will need him for some dirty work in the future. No way that backfires on her \s.
Edit: I also think somehow Otto was in cahoots with Larys on the assassinations. Otto is definitely someone who knows how to play the game.
An interesting detail I just read about that I completely missed, in the previous episode when Aemond was complaining about not having a dragon and Halaena, playing with that centipede thing, just causally drops "he will have to close an eye". This means Halaena must be a "dreamer" and I wonder how this will play into things in the future.
If she ends up like another bran I hope she dies early so we get spared the whole who has the best story ending.
Yeah she is definitely doing some prophecy stuff. In this latest one here's what she was saying:
Hand turns loom
spool of green
spool of black
dragons of flesh
weaving dragons of thread
Laenor: "I should have been there"
Rhaenyra: "Those should be the words of our house"
I lol'd at that one
I'm just going to say it - I don't think I like a single character in this show lol. Hard to root for anyone, but maybe that's the point. Atleast in GoT there were characters to root for like Sansa, Jon Snow, etc
I think there are characters to root for...we just are not sure who they are yet. It's a bold decision, but it almost feels intentional that we are not quite sure at this point in the story who we should or shouldn't be pulling for. I know Daemon isn't a good guy, but is he necessarily wrong though? He's got a pretty good grasp of what's actually going on. The character is consistent in the very least, and I don't need to "like" him to think he's a good character.
Game of Thrones, for all its "shades of gray", made certain characters ones to pull for right away. Did you ever not root for the Onion Knight? Hodor? Tyrion? Podrick?
And some of the characters you wanted good things to happen for the most started as the ones you hated. The Hound comes to mind, and Jamie for a good portion of things.
Idk if Daemon is really consistent though? He went from wanting to be heir, to not wanting to have anything to do with the throne, then back to marrying Rhaenyra and being fully in support for her being on the throne. But naybe the last 2 episodes will reveal more
Daemon has always been pretty ambivalent about power, but if nobody else wants it, he'll do it.
I don't think that the character changing his mind on what he wants necessarily means that it's an inconsistent character...if that makes sense.
He will take opportunities as they come, but I don't think he has ever been shown to us that wants the Iron Throne at all costs.
Daemon is my favorite character in the show. He's deeply flawed but also seems loyal to whomever he attaches to. The scene at the Stepstones where he is fighting with the Velaryons and risks his own life for their victory. He does seem devoted to Laena prior to her death. I do think he truly loves Rhaenyra as cringey as that is. He went full Will Smith on Vaemond Velaryon when he trashed Rhaenyra. He's an asshole, but an asshole you want on your side.
And I do think he loves his family and his brother dearly. That was evident when he hurries to help him to the throne and gave him his crown back.
I can't wait for the showdown between him and Aemond. The scene when Viserys left the dinner and Aemond tried to big boy Rhaenyra's kids was great. The look him and Daemon exchanged as he left the room was fantastic. Can't wait for that show down.
Lol I don't think he really loves his brother or Rhaenyra dearly. Dude is clearly sociopath, and his wife was the only one that knew his true nature. But his upbringing, deep seated loyalty to family, and circumstances have kept him in check. Even with all the bad though I will agree he is ending up a character to root for just because of how bad all the others are.
Okay, may be "dearly" was a bit much. He does seem to know where his bread is buttered though.
Without getting into spoilers, in the book, they are all somewhere on the spectrum of suck
It's almost like Succession is a popular show for this exact same reason.
Who do you root for when no one is worth rooting for? It's compelling television, if not real life at this point
This show has now become a battle between which side can one up the other as the bigger pos. I find myself now on team Rhaenyra and Daemon even though they're two of my personal least favorites in the show. Rhaenyra outright sucks, she's arrogant and consistently shows that she was not learning or paying attention when growing up in Kings Landing. Without Daemon (who is a piece of shit sociopath) she wouldn't even be taken seriously at this point in the show. Now with Daemon she'll still end up losing the conflict/war over the throne due to tactical errors even though it will likely end up being even more bloody.
With all that's wrong with Rhaenyra/Daemon, the other side is somehow even worse. I don't even really hate Allicent, even after her one outburst. But the rest of her crew, good lord. Aegon is a little shit, anyone trying to make him king is doing a disservice to the realm. Aemond I had sympathy for initially, but he turns too violent and clearly has total hate toward his cousins, even though his brother was the one who got everyone to pick on him. (Rhaenyra's children are clearly better natured and raised than the others which is a big plus for their side imo.) Continuing, ser Christian showed himself to be a pos in the training yard with Aegon and his two cousins. And Otto has suggested some of the weirdest and most f'd up things that don't even help acheive his stated goal of "protecting the realm. Really he's just a self important ass. Lyonel was an infinitely better hand.
Honestly in the last episode, the Sea Snake brother was by far the most in the right. But I didn't care when he was cut down by Daemon because of who he allied himself with and what that would mean strategically.
Lastly, Rhaenyra and Daemon were incredibly short sighted not to have moved to King's Landing and had some sort of transfer of power agreement in place when the King's health deteriorated. Now it's all too easy for Allicent/Otto to ensure they stay in power. My theory for next episode is that Corlys is still alive and he joins the war on Aegon's side after what Daemon did to his brother. Just incredible arrogance and short-sightedness from R&D's side
Really close on the Corlys prediction. Man I'm going to rewatch the season to preoccupy my time...maybe twice. I knew something had to happen to get Rhaenyra to choose war but I didn't expect what actually happened.
HOLY SHIT. THIS is what I've been waiting for
You and Larys have something in common?
Eh, more the last 2 minutes of the episode
Why didn't Rhaenys just end all of them?
Kind of like why they didnt just ride the eagles to mordor and air mail the ring into mount doom, plot.
I cant decide if she spared them as a we are allies now or as a your dead to me
Because the writers wanted a scene that would tread on Twitter, not one that would actually do much to the plot trajectory
I think she didn't want to burn Alicent and whoever else she wouldn't want to kill (she's been their guest for a while). Totally should've though. Basically all of GOT/HOTD issues come from the good guys wasting positions of strength
I guess I figured it was just plot armor. But the one thing I liked about GoT was that they kept plot armor minimal, outside of Jon Snow coming back to life I guess lol. There was no mercy for secondary characters. But I've been seeing things where Rhaenys didn't want to murder everyone because Kingslaying is considered very unlucky(lol @ Jaimie), or that she wanted to spare just Alicent, but who knows
Real Reason: Because that would have ended the series.
While true, there has been a book written already where all these things happened.
So real reason: GRRM decided it didn't go down like that. It's like asking why Tolkien didn't just have Tom Bombadil take the ring and protect it. Because then there is no LOTR.
It would have ended the BOOK series, too.
We were told multiple times that there was a "beast beneath the boards"
One area Game of Thrones (the show) could have been even more awesome was if they included Patchface. Glad to see House of the Dragon leaning into a Dreamer telling us what's going to happen, even if it makes no sense at the moment.
Dang, crazy episode. She should have barbecued them all.
Also it was really hard to tell which twin was which lol
Should've given one brother an eye patch!
Problems I have with the Rhaenys scene with Meleys:
1. Apparently Rhaenys spared Alicent because she didn't want to kill a mother. So, screw the number of commonfolk who just got destroyed by the floor underneath their feet. I get it though, killing a queen and new king would ruin Rhaenys' life.
2. If Rhaenys never intended to kill Alicent, why not just use the "Exit" door and fly away. Straight up through the floor surely isn't the only way out.
3. And speaking of that, how did Rhaenys survive on dragonback when Meleys burst through the stone floor?
As others have already said, this screams of a scene meant for retweets on Twitter. Should've just ended with Meleys roaring into the doorway on her way out or simply flying away while Team Green does the mental calculus to realize what's just happened.
edited to fix words
Maybe the point was the Rhaenys had within her power to end it then and there, but chose not to do so. It was a warning, both to the royals and the common folk. Sure put a damper on the coronation event.
Alicent definitely thought she was going to be a goner, but then she was enveloped in dragon breath instead of fire. Raenys showed mercy.
Now was this a good idea? Probably not, unless you just want another season. Which, of course, we do.
I think there are TONS of examples where a character makes a short sighted decision and then probably will regret it later, and the story is extended
Not sure why we would expect different from HotD
Yeah, its just a poorly written scene that never should have happened. It's not in the book, which isn't the first thing this show has done that's deviated from the book. That part is fine though. What you have to do though is there has to be internal logic that justifies the actions the character is making. This doesn't. Any reasons are just grasping at straws and fall apart under basic scrutiny. It's clear they wanted a cool dragon scene so they shoehorned it into this. The visuals look great, but it completely falls apart the moment you start thinking about it.
HOTD is a book?
Yeah. It's called Fire and Blood. It's not like the other books that Game of Thrones was based on. This one written more as a historical chronicle told from the point of view of a few different sources who were "there" when it all happened.
I think this would have been an ok instance, since the Blacks would have then just framed her as executing traitors to the true crown if she'd survived. The remaining opposition (if any) wouldn't have had any of the former king's other children to rally behind because they'd have all died, so it would have been an epic win.
You're asking the real questions now! lol I thought the same thing.
I agree overall that this was an excessive scene. Pretty cool though. And it is this kind of thing so far that separates GoT from HoD for me so far. Characters in HoD just seem to do dumb stuff more often for no reason than people in GoT did (at least from what I remember, with the last few seasons ignored of course haha). Most character actions in the first few seasons of GoT seemed very sensible, like the kind of thing actual people would do.
Leg but gonna have to disagree there. In the first few seasons characters were incredibly dumb, it was like everyone thought they were invincible the way they would just clearly do things outside their interest. Catelyn, Ned, Stannis, to a certain extent Robb all show this.
They do things way dumber than Rhaenys deciding to not indiscriminately burn a gathering of people, many of which she had personal ties to. Plus Rhaenys did not know all of the cruelty that had taken place because she was locked in her room. And her adversaries have no openly shown the cruelty they are capable of like in game of thrones. But I'd also say if she were 1 on 1 with Otto or other small council members she would've smoked them.
Also I expect we'll get some sort of explanation next week
FYI
The Finale has leaked online. If you don't want to be spoiled, be very careful looking at anything Dragon related on social media.
If you want to be spoiled, go ahead and get your Jack Sparrow on by venturing to the dark corners of the interwebs
I sailed the seven seas and caught the episode earlier. Without spoiling anything ... I was entertained but there was some weirdness at the end. I'll add more deets after Sunday night.
Dang, not out on my streaming site yet. Where did you find it?
This next episode is the first one I actually watched the trailer for. Got me pretty hyped up!
Damn next season is gonna be lit
TL;DR but am I the only one who thinks this show is weak?? Perhaps it's because I'm a bit hard of hearing and if feels like they are mumbling the whole show with music playing over it. The first few episodes were ok but I just can't get into it like GoT.
All the episodes just seem to be about who is marrying who.
Did you watch 10? This whole season has basically been a trailer for season 2. The setup is dope but a lot of it has been character building and filler
Haha. Like our football team. The next two years are a setup for the third! Ha. No offense. Had to.
This is just year zero.
I don't think its weak, but its not as good as GoT. So far, its not like say Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul where you knew after the first season that the spinoff show was just as good as the previous. But this HotD doesn't suck either. If GoT an A average, this is a solid B (not debating season, just making a general point). The first season here has been a bit messy due to the time period. From the source material, there's not a lot to work with. Martin doesn't really provide many details until you get to the actual war. So in the show you're getting a lot of time jumps and set up this first season. Personally I think they would have been better off coming up with some filler content since they've strayed from the book in other ways, but I don't want to digress too much.
Basically, this first season was always gonna be a little bumpy because the source material lacks details. The show could have handled it better, but its still been a pretty good watch for the most part. I expect the show will get much better and consistent once the war starts next season. Shame we have to wait 2 years for it though
2 years?!? Sheesh. The whole purpose of this season is to get you excited for the next one
It's timed to sell DVD sets for Christmas presents.
Turn on the closed captioning. I am not hard of hearing, but we started using it when we had kids and will never go back. It will tell you background conversations and things you might otherwise miss.
Bragg,
Fear not. You are not alone. This entire show is a distinct step down from game of thrones. Kind of like our Hokies of yore' vs. today. Okay. Maybe not that drastic a difference. But the dialogue and plot development is much less clever and nuanced. It's basically like any other fantasy but with the spice of incest and dragons - that said, it has had its moments.
thanks all. I'll keep watching. Haven't watched the latest episode as I'm traveling away from my wife at the moment and we watch it together.
I'll try the captions and give it a chance.
I agree that if I had not watched GoT then I may have put this show on hold. But by being invested in the GoT world, this is a good story to keep that going.
Feels like they replaced all the GoT graphic sex scenes with graphic child birth scenes
I'm glad the way they portrayed that.
Aemond was set up as this jerk of a character that wanted revenge at all costs, but even he knew how big of a mistake he made.
He just literally wanted an eye for an eye.
A wise man once said:
-Viserys Targaryen
I'm a little conflicted. In the books, Aemond intentionally kills him. Well, its portrayed more like he did it on purpose. In the show, you get a situation where its like "what did you think was gonna happen?". You're attacking Luke with the largest dragon in the world. Of all the outcomes that could happen doing something like that, like 4 out of 5 are death. From a logic standpoint, he's trying to kill him.
But the way it goes in the show, it does work pretty well with both kids losing control of their dragons, things got out of hand, and now we got a war because of a big fuck up. It gives Aemond a little bit of some layers that he's a dickhead but not THAT big of a dickhead. Then again, its kind of messy that the show is portraying this war breaking out all because of misunderstanding and accidents; this and Viserys mistaking Alicent for Rhaenyra talking about the dream. Take out the Alicent/dream part and I'd like this Luke/Aemond stuff a lot more. I'm not mad about it but its just a little quirky.
I thought it was an interesting choice, and I hope they're not just playing "subvert the expectations" games, but it is a fair depiction, given that the putative author of the books lived a couple of hundred years after the events and is relying on various other people's descriptions of an event that only had one actual witness, Aemond himself. The idea that the actual start of things was a series of misunderstandings and "fuck ups" doesn't in any way say that war wasn't eventually coming regardless.
Aemond:
They pulled that scene with aemond from previous stuff I remember one of the bonus content DVD's from the original GOT has an exert where robert baratheon tells the tale and its pretty much line for line like he told it. Embedding a tweet that does the hard work for those interested.
Warning there be spoilers ahead
That was awesome. I could listen to Mark Addy narrate GoT content all day.
Just like Andy Serkis narrating the hobbit and lord of the rings books. Some people just have a knack for it and make it easy listening. Mark Addy played his role so well.
this feels a lot like season 1 of GoT, like in that season, not a lot happened, it was mainly set ups for other things. I guess this is supposed to only be 2 seasons long? I kinda wish we didn't have to wait 2 years for the next season
I read somewhere that George Martin thinks it will need to be at least four 10-episode seasons to tell the whole story.
edit to add: Saying that "not a lot happened" in both GOT s1 and HOTD s1 is certainly an interesting take.
I guess I should rephrase that as not a lot of action happened in both GoT season 1 and HoTD season 1, until both finales. It was mostly passive aggressive politicking and world/character building
I agree with HoTD for sure. With GoT it was a similar setup for war but definitely a ton of stuff happened in season 1 even with regards to the war lol
maybe I'm misremembering season 1 lol, it's been 10 years I guess
Now that was a season finale right there. I really hope the 2 years to season 2 is just internet rumor bs as this is starting to get good.
The whole season build up to lucerys being killed felt right in the way they played the kids backgrounds out. Rhaenyra tried to be her father now I can't wait to see her and daemon go scorched earth.
The opening scene with rhaenyra hit like a truck 3ven when she had every right to be livid she remained steadfast in upholding her father's reign.
Also I'm assuming the dragon that daemon went to go sing to is significant as I read he was jaherys' dragon?
If you keep CC on, it tells you that was Vermithor as it said "Vermithir roars" which was Jarhaerys I's dragon.
Reference Guide for Dragon Sizes (Edit: Just noticed the picture of Arrax lmao)
Much appreciated love the elephant for scale. So looks like hes basically upgrading in size for the war I'm guessing. We had CC on but I had forgotten the name it happened to quick but this explains what hes trying to do.
I don't know if he's upgrading, but more trying to enlist the help of one of the only battle tested dragons left. As far as I know it is only Caraxes, Vhagar and Vermithor.
Niceee good catch! I try not to use CC because I feel like it really distracts me from the scenes visually, but HoD really makes it hard to not use CC sometimes.
I have a hard enough time remembering the names of the people.
What do you mean? There's nothing confusing at all about the names in this show /s
So I thought rhaenyra had 5 kids so where were the other 2 or 3 that she has had with daemon or am I confused now?
Rhaenyra + "Laenor" = Jacaerys, Lucerys, Joffrey
Rhaenyra + Daemon = Aegon, Viserys
I've been using this family tree as a reference throughout the season: Link (Big Image)
I'm assuming this has spoilers?
It does. You'll find out which family branches survive.
I mean technically, by the time GoT comes around, there is only a single twig on the whole tree left.
There's at least 3 twigs left on the mighty tree by GoT, maybe 4 depending on how some book stuff that didn't make it into the show turns out
oooooh you know what?
Fair
I completely forgot JS=AT, and just blanked that Viserys existed after he was given his crown.
Thanks for the image. No wonder the Mad King went mad. Dude was the son of sibling-parents and also married his sister haha. (actually just read on his wiki page that his madness was indeed due to all the Targaryen incest so that explains a lot...)
Season 2 off to a strong start last night. Hoping we see more of the North and Cregan Stark this season (I have not read the book so no book spoilers please)
not sure I agree it was that strong. A lot of setup, dialogue, emo....
I did like the Stark sequence though....
The killing of the baby instead of Aegon made little sense to me. Unless we're just supposed to understand that commoners are idiots...
I made a comment to my wife while watching that I bet they're just going to have 7 and a half seasons worth of buildup to the big war only to have it last a disappointing half episode.
Yes, I'm still bitter about the way the whole White Walker thing turned out.
I'm really torn on this show.
Last night seemed... meh....
Very much a soapy feel, but feels like not a lot is happening
Yeah it does just feel like a lot of set up at this point. Hopefully the pace picks ups and we get some epic battles before too long here.
Meh is fair. I don't think its as poorly written as final three seasons of GoT but its not significantly better.
I kind of disagree with this, I think the show is incredibly poorly written.
Where GoT excelled was taking the slow burn to make you care about characters before you killed them off. You'd do a bit of a dive into back stories or development just to off them in the final act. Sometimes it was over the course of a single episode and others over the course of a few. With HOTD, they've routinely skipped those steps and just move right to the end result.
Take this episode for example. The twins killing each other meant nothing to me because the show never bothered to try and make us care about them. Where GoT would have spent time showing the journey of the one brother to get to the other castle, and slow burned the internal struggle he had, HOTD just had him ordered to assassinate the queen, who his brother was guarding, didn't mention it for 45 minutes, and then just had him show up for a fight in the final act. It meant nothing.
Also, part of this lazy writing is the actor changes because of time jumps, and it's so bad that I don't even know who half the characters are supposed to be. I just realized last night that this is the same character...
Man I'm with you. This is a very large budget soap opera right now. Maybe something ends up happening, but it all feels contrived and inconsequential.
Same. When they pulled out the old slaps him and then kisses him trope I was like, "What is this, Days of Our Lives"?
Welp... Nothing of consequence happened... Again
Well, for those that have read the books I guess you were not surprised by last night but I sure was. Bummer as I thought she was one of the best characters.
Series of really dumb moves by the blacks who had the advantage at the start of the season. If they had listened to Daemon and 2 v 1'd Vaeghar immediately then rallied the riverlands before Cole left, they'd have won the war by the start of season 3
2nd straight week of move the plot along or have one single interesting thing happen, challenge impossible.
If I see another Daemon flashback/vision with nothing happening in the plot I swear
Yeah each week that passes I'm more and more in the boat that this is just a large budget soap opera.
It's worrisome that the biggest battle in the great war the series has had so far happened off screen between episodes and we only know because they showed us a quick glance at a charred battlefield strewn with thousands of dead bodies.
I very much enjoyed the episode last night. Rhaenyra solved 2 problems at once:
1. Got 2 new dragonriders
2. Got rid of a bunch of potential dragonriders that could have challenged throne claims and snagged other dragons
Also, they keep referring to the dragon killing bows that Hugh helped erect, and they showed them again this episode, I have a bad feeling they're gonna come into play....
LOL I can't believe that was the finale. How do we not get a single battle this season
I have a love/hate relationship with the finale... This was a great foreshadow of what's about to happen in season 3 (and it looks to be awesome) but for that to be finale with no battle/dragon fight was definitely disappointing.
I probably don't hate it as much as others as I didn't read the books but the fact we have to wait 1-2 years for season 3 made the finale of season 2 a lot left to be desired. Just my $0.02
It does feel like the finale would have been a great penultimate episode to set up a finale episode with a final battle, but I guess it was just to set up season three. I am still loving the show, but it does feel like this entire season was a "move the story forward" mid season episode.
This is what happens when there's a lack of source material. They are attempting to stretch several chapters of a single book into a 3-4 season story.
There were some battles this season. Armies were burned. Dragons were killed.
It's slower paced than GOT, but there is a story line there.
Reminds me a bit of Better call Saul vs Breaking Bad. It's slower paced, but the themes and connection to the original show are there. Unlike Better Call Saul, there's no overlap of the timeline and characters.
I can't say I like it as much as Game of Thrones, but I do like it enough to watch.
Apparently they wrote 10 episodes for this season and then at some point the decision was made to cut it down to 8 and this very much tracks. This episode would be a perfect 8th episode of a traditional GoT season to set up an eventful episode 9 before having the finale deal with the aftermath.