So I'm sure this is the question that everyone is wondering and no one knows the answer to...but any thoughts as to when we can expect to see improvement on offense?
I can't say I know too much about the 2013 class and which of those guys might be an impact player (other than those who are already playing), so any help there would be great.
Otherwise, what I do (think) I know is:
- the new offensive coaching staff (Searels is the unknown) seem to be better coaches and recruiters than their predecessors
- I saw it posted somewhere (can't remember where) that if you look at the HS ratings (which we all know can be useless) for our current offensive starters, it's pretty awful. Something to the effect of Logan being the only 4* (at a dif position of course), with everyone else a 3* except for Stanford was 2* and Byrn/Cline weren't even rated...or something like that, can't remember exactly. I think DJ Coles was also highly rated but wasn't healthy enough to play the whole game.
The 2014 class brings:
- two 4* WRs, two 3* WRs
- one 3-4* TE + Buckey supposedly moving over
- two 4* RBs
- two 4* QBs
- four 3* OL + Teller & Pfaff
- somewhere in the mix will be guys like Caleb, Parker, etc
The upgrade in * power is undeniable, but we all know that doesnt always mean much, and of course it takes time to develop the players...and while the new staff seems to be an upgrade they still haven't fully proven themselves.
Taking all that into account, any educated guesses on when we might start to see significant improvement on O?
Comments
General thought is that we'll start seeing significant improvement in the next 2-3 years.
Kinda related, but then kind of not related: fact I heard today on Mike and Mike and Mike and Mike.
Every single 5* recruit that has signed with Alabama under Saban has gone on to be a 1st round draft pick in the NFL. 5 star guys matter.
In reference to your topic, I think we'll finally see some raw athleticism come out on the offense side of the ball. Hopefully we have a run game, seeing how we signed two highly recruited running backs. I'm on the side that the wheels are rolling in the right direction.
2007: Bama signed no 5 stars
2008: Bama signed Burton Scott, Julio Jones, and Tyler Love. Julio Jones was a 1st Round pick but Burton Scott transferred to South Alabama. Tyler Love never really made it to the starting lineup.
2009: Bama signed Trent Richardson, Dre Kirkpatrick, Nico Johnson, D.J. Fluker. Trent Richardson, Dre Kirkpatrick, and DJ Fluker became 1st Round picks. Nico Johnson was a 4th Round pick.
2010: Bama signed Dee Milliner. He was picked in the first round.
Star rating according to Rivals.
EDIT: Scout considered Mark Barron a 5 star while Rivals considered him a 4 star. He was a first round pick. Scout also considered DJ Fluker a 4 star while Rivals rated him at 5 stars. Phillip Sims was considered a 5 star by Rivals and I believe he's now at UVA.
Setting mike n mike straight. Thanks for the detail info.
Sims got kicked off the team at UVA before the start of last year. Academic problems. He's at Winston Salem State now I think.
Based on ESPN Rankings - they only give 15 recruits the 5 star nod each year
http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/84057/top-stats-to-know-nati...
ESPN's prospect ratings are not very comprehensive, and they tend to rate low on purpose.
Also if I got any of the data wrong on the previous or current recruits/* rankings, feel free to correct me, not sure it's 100% accurate.
Must have skipped over the bit about Searels before, but I'll say this: It is impossible for him to be anything less than a gigantic step up from Newsome. He's at least coming into a situation where the guys in the program have had a year of legitimate, competent fundamentals coaching and the new guys coming in should be athletic upgrades over most of the current OL in the program.
The new guys are undersized to play right now for the most part. He will have guys to work with down the road but they are coming in at 260-280 with the exception of Pfaff. He has some guys to work with in McGlaughlin (spelling), Faris, Teller, Conte, Wang (played well at center), Smith, Benedict, Gibson. We have some athletic guys there and I think there will be an improvement this year. I do think Marshawn will help the running game too.
Seems to me our biggest shift in terms of offensive recruiting is actually working to find and recruit position specific players outside of the RB. In the past it felt like we wanted to find athletic guys and see where they could fit (guys that often played multiple positions in HS, or the infamous TE to Oline plan), and I think that the offense as a whole will benefit from having players who have focused their development on specific roles. The WRs in this class are all guys who primarily played the position in HS which should lend to them more quickly acclimating to to the college level, and I think this will hold especially true on the Oline. I think the improvement will come from better prepared athletes who hopefully will be able to contribute sooner than some of the guys we've in the past found and worked with.
I think that this next fall we should hope for more consistency, the scheme was obviously a vast improvement from the prior coaching staff so I would like to believe that the guys that will now have 2 years in it and some of the young guys fit into solid roles will be able to have a more consistent offense. We had too many ups and downs and miscues this past fall to be considered anything other than consistently mediocre to poor. I think the improvement will show up this fall, but it won't be some drastic improvement. I think we should hope for major improvements to start showing in 2015 and for 2016 the offense needs to be the true compliment to our defense that we've yearned for.
Welcome to TKP!
Cam Phillips seems to have a chance to be a difference maker from day 1. Same with Williams at RB and Shai would too, but he should make sure he is 100% from his ACL which may give a leg up to Williams this spring.
Malleck back at TE along with Cline and good competition everywhere else on the offense should breed the best possible offense with the guys we got. Should be exciting... can't wait for spring ball!
If we can find a great offensive identity and Loeffler and co. can coach players to the potential of the talent that was brought in and that's returning, it may wind up being the offense that wins more than a couple of games this season. ;)
I like Bradshaw. Not many giving that kid love.
It really all comes down to the quarterback position. The weapons are now available on the offense. Trey Edmunds will be in his second year, granted coming back from an injury. Marshawn Williams will most likely be in the mix as well as JC to some extent potentially. I expect Stanford and Cline to take the next step and be very valuable. Willie Byrn is what he is when he is needed and that doesnt suck. Then you insert Cam Phillips and Isaiah Ford into the lineup, both of whom I believe will see the field as true freshman. Phillips played in a complicated offense at Dematha and I believe that he will be able to understand Loeffler's route scheme and be an asset. Isaiah Ford has excellent ball skills and could be the next down field threat that we desperately needed last year. On top of that Malleck should be back as the second TE and that will huge as well. All of that hinges on the play of the quarterback though. I expect whomever the QB is this year to have a limited ceiling because of physical ability (Leal) or experience (Ford). The highest ceiling in 2014 could actually be Motley though, who if he can somehow jump everyone on the depth chart could provide both the athleticism and time in the system to really power the offense.
I think Malleck will come back and be the number 1 TE. Cline had a great frosh campaign especially only after playing one season before that, but he still has a lot to learn and can get even better. He is going to have a chance to be the number 2 and not be keyed on at all times, so he will have a chance to have another productive year. I would love to see a ton of 2 TE personnel. They can and will both be weapons this year.
Sorry that wasnt clear. I actually agree with you. What I meant was that Malleck would come back and we would have 2 TEs that could be on the field at the same time in heavy sets.
Yep, the weapons are there now. The two biggest question marks see QB and Loeffler. I just expect a precipitous drop off in QB production over the next toe years. And Loeffler is still a big unknown.
I agree QB play might drop off in the sense that none of these guys will be Logan on day 1, but whoever the QB is will have far better weapons to work with than Logan did, so that might help ease the dropoff.
Logan definitely had better weapons day 1. David Wilson, Jarrett Boykin, Danny Coale, etc.
I think the meaning was "better weapons than Logan had last year." I think that'll be true. Kind hard for it not to be, with how last year's group did. Only Coles departs, with Malleck returning from injury along with some very talented freshmen.
I get the QB ceiling points. I just think its only gonna last 1 year. Loeffler is a QB coach. Look at the QBs he's coached in the past... That's a pretty decent resume. So, I'm gonna lean forward & start the "In Lefty We Trust" movement. Lefty's only gonna get QBs that fit his system & stack 'em like cordwood. I trust him. From the great offensive scheme analysis we've all read here on TKP over the past season. I see a plan. 2014 will be the 1st season with a smidge of his target talent in the mix. Hokies gotta believe!!
YES SIR.
I actually expect a more efficient QB than we had the last 2 years. I think these guys will play within themselves more. They will have much better weapons, I think the running game will be better, and I think the QB won't be asked to do as much. The numbers might not be there but the efficiency at the position I think will be better and that means longer drives, more points, more wins.
I think having Ford in the program for the spring is bigger than many people think. Spring ball is where development takes place. It is more important from a new player standpoint than fall camp. They learn more in the spring, then they get to practice what they learned all summer. He will get live game speed reps with the system which is HUGE to have. He can work with Leoffler, he can learn the system in person and already is I am sure.
Getting him in early puts him ahead of Durkin and McMillian. It also allows him to prove himself against Motley and Leal early.
The spring development is why I feel that next years QB will be Motley, Leal or Ford. I think the other 2 redshirt if they don't want to play other positions.
I'm going to be contrarian here.
Going out on a limb and predicting better pure play at QB.
This is based on several somewhat optimistic premises:
Please don't think any of this is a slap at LT3. I truly believe he can excel at the next level, and I believe that had he had one more year under Loeffler, he'd be a legitimate candidate for a 1st rounder.
But let's face it. The only reason he was QB at all was because he didn't have the athleticism to be an Offensive Tackle.
Modest improvement from last year to this year- some of the skill guys (Stanford, Edmunds, Kline, etc) will have more experience in the system and be ready to go. The QB play will obviously be the limiting factor, but the interesting thing will be how the line develops. If we see more improvement in run blocking from last year to this year, we could see better offensive improvement because you can be sure we'll lean on the running game with a new starting QB.
But don't get your hopes up too terribly much. 2015 will be better!
Next year, the staff will not have the ability to lean on ONE athlete like they did with LT3.
I think this means that we get a truer view of Loeffler 2.0 offense.
He will have an unproven QB, an improved OL, improved stable of WR's, a cluster of RB's, and a much better situation at TE.
The strength of the offense will be the O-line and TE's (say what?) with, IMO, a significant upgrade in skill positions from last year.
I'm VERY tentative about Trey Edmund's return from the injury so it will be crucial to get 2-3RB's out of spring practice that can go.
I'm also hopeful that the staff gets an early read on the QB hierarchy so as to avoid any lingering controversy.
I'm very optimistic about our stable of WR's-if the wifey decided to want another kid I would consider naming the bugger 'Morehead.' (True!)
But my main point is that it's gonna have to be a complete system due to the uncertainty/turnover at QB, RB, WR's and it will be entertaining to see what Loeffler comes up with.
It's gonna be fun.....
Yeah, name your kid 'Morehead,' high school will be a breeze for that kid...
If he (or she *shudder*) even gets through middle school. My wife's a speech therapist in a middle school and comes home with horrific stories.
I don't think McKenzie will be doing much in spring but he will be involved and learning which for the RB position I think is more important because the physical part is more natural. If he is 100% by fall camp, I wouldnt be surprised if he is in the mix.
Logan was a really weird case. He both allowed Loeffler to design an entire offense around him, and limited what he could actually do. As we have said Loeffler knew that he was severely limited by the offensive talent around Logan and so he made the decision to put everything on Logan's shoulders because it gave the team the best chance to win.
Conversely, if Ford can win the job we will see what Loeffler's offense really looks like. The talent may be young, but we do have the talent around him. And Ford's skill set caters to an efficiently run balanced offense. I normally wouldnt say that there was any chance of a Freshman starting, but Loeffler has shown that he is talented at developing specific parts of the playbook around a young players current ability. I believe that Ford will have a strong enough grasp of the playbook to be field ready. It will all come down to his timing and presence in the pocket in the spring and early fall. The only problem is that September game against tOSU looms and that would be a hell of a thing for a Freshman QB.
The good news is that tOSU's defense has been much worse the last 2 years than it had been traditionally in the 2000's and their best corner is gone.
Bad news is they are loading up blue chip players on D.
Not to mention said game against OSU (yeah, I left out the 't.' Wanna fight about it?) is in the 'shoe, which is one heck of a challenge for any freshman QB. Not impossible to win (see Barkley and USC a few years ago) but still very much less than ideal for a kid's first road start, which it will be regardless of who wins the job.
Im totally down with dropping the t
Honestly, who the hell started that anyway? There's not another Ohio State University that's talked about all the time and no one abbreviates OK State to OSU (case in point). Let's make TKP a "t"-free zone.
I always viewed it as parody. The official name is "The Ohio State University," and they make a big deal out of the "The" whenever they say it. For instance, when their marching band (which is admittedly awesome) makes their entrance, the PA announcer says the "The" more prominently than anything else. So tOSU, I always thought, is an effort to represent their true acronym, but reduces the "The" to minor status, rather than the emphasis they always put on it.
That is exactly how I've always understood it. A way to diminish it, rather than allow it to fester while you ignore it.
Then shouldn't it be Tosu?
Great point about the upgrade in "star power" in this years offensive recruits.
I've said that Lefty and Co. are NOT offensive gurus; none of them have invented a system or set of plays that is being copied by other teams. The pro-set, the veer, the zone blocking were all invented by other coaches. These styles are fundamental to half the teams in college football.
Therefore, to be successful at running these schemes, you need two things; One, all the players have to be on the same page. We saw what happened a few years ago when players didn't block and missed assignments. Last year there was less missed assignments. Two, you need players to win their one-on-one battles. Last year we lacked a lot of that, and that's where the "star-power" helps out.
I think Loeffler and Co can be VERY successful, but they need the right guys for their system. They need a stud WR that will stretch the field and catch the jump ball; last year we didn't have one. They need a versatile TE that can seal the edge as well as catch the seam route; last year they didn't have one. They need a QB who can make the defense pay for jumping routes; last year they didn't have one. They need RBs that have speed as well as can pass protect (last year we only had one.)
Loeffler and Co. need offensive weapons for their system to be successful, and last year we didn't have very many; this recruiting class changed that.
Lefty and Co are not offensive gurus in the sense that they are not running a cutting edge offense. But realistically there are what 3 or 4 coaches in football that are doing that? Lefty does however excel at understanding where teams weaknesses are and how to exploit them. I do fully agree that in order to exploit weaknesses you have to have the talent. The '14 class has multiple players that fit this billing. More so than in any one class Tech has had before.
Agreed.
One trait that might make Loeffler a great coach is that he has a reputation as a "QB whisperer" and is known as a guru at coaching the most important position on the field. Give him the right field general and above-average talent and I think he can put together some real success.
His schemes and play-calling seemed pretty good last year, and the offense did a reasonable job at moving the ball in the first half of games. Of course creating mismatches becomes easier when you have talent. You also need a decision-maker to recognize the mismatchs and exploit them. Logan and Leal both have a tendency to lock onto a receiver and force the ball into coverage. This is the opposite of exploiting a mismatch.
Hopefully Loeffler can cure this next year. Where this offense needs the most improvement is interior running and scoring in the red zone. Of course his biggest task will be finding a decent decision-maker at QB to replace Logan, but do that and we will have a 10-win season (like we should have had last year...) and an ACCCG appearance, which is my definition of a successful season these days.