Been making the rumor mill for a few days. Apparently Rudolph interviewed on Saturday morning, and things progressed from there. https://t.co/UZA6Ou6UOB— Chris Coleman (@ChrisColemanTSL) February 27, 2023
Forums:
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.
Comments
All we know is pain.
All we feel is rain.
All we raise is cain ?
Not what I was after, but I guess that works in a different way.
DAMN IT
Our offense is not going to be any better this year.
Can it be much worse?
It can always be worse
I'm not so sure... TSL did a S&P etc. metric breakdown of last year and it was epically bad.
worst it has been in 30 years. Almost worst in the nation (but not quite worst, which means there is absolutely room for it to be worse)
and it wouldn't surprise me much if it is worse in 2023. Bowen just might lose his job anyway, even if he's not as crap as I think he probably is
I think this actually buys Bowen at least another year. I'm pretty sure I remember Pry describing his thoughts on Bowen as the OC, then backing him up with veteran running game and passing game coordinators. You don't lose those two coordinators and still expect the same level of results from Bowen.
But hopefully the Glenn and Rudolph hires were for money and not because of Bowen. If that IS the case (them not liking working under Bowen or having some other issue with him) and it gets back to Pry, he may very well let Bowen go.
It's disappointing seeing both Glenn and Rudolph go, given the discussion we've had regarding Pry wanting guys who will stay. I mean, Rudolph is taking what can only be a lateral move, or lower given the "run game coordinator" title which was larger than just the line, but likely for a fairly larger pay check and working with a lot more talent.
In summary: Ugh.
This is the kind of shit that happens when conference TV deal doesn't pay enough to keep the lights on
Or when the staff might not have confidence in the coordinator they report to...
It's also something common in P5 football everywhere but a Frank Beamer coached team.
Or when a good coach is offered more money by a higher prestige program that (responding to Alum) would have way more money than us regardless of ACC TV deal pay out
This is a ridiculous and unsubstantiated claim. Glen got a promotion from QB coach to OC. Rudolph got picked up by one of the bluest blueblood for (presumably) a significant raise.
I think Rudolph was paid a competitive salary.
I recall him saying Blacksburg location was a major reason for he and his family to take this job. That was short lived.
Obviously, ND is a big program but this doesn't give me confidence that the more established coaches believe in our future.
All the experience surrounding our inexperienced offensive coordinator and head coach are now gone.
Bummer!
I mean at least they showed they had learned so much and that things were falling into place well last year, right?
Competitive is potentially much different than what a VERY well funded blue blood might throw at a well respected coach.
I mean, the other way to think about it is that Notre Dame came to steal him, and Glen got a promotion. Given those things, it speaks somewhat well of Pry's choices in coaches. I mean, we were hoping that someone would hire Fuente and/or Cornelson away from us. This problem is arguably a better one to have.
God I miss the days of having one of the longest tenured staffs in college football. Hard to complain about the players not having loyalty to a program when the coaches nowadays are even worse.
It really helps when God has a fat sack of $$$.
Are you suggesting Notre Dame paid off God to tell Rudolph to go there, because that would be a fat sack of $$$ indeed.
Notre Dame has God informing their prospective coaches of the pay raise coming their way now? If this isn't the definition on getting Big Dogged, I don't know what is.
"Get on the train I am jumping off of" is an interesting choice.
Yeah, that shit rubbed me the wrong way too.
I mean would you rather him say don't go there, this staff is fucked? 😂
No. I would rather him just thank us and Pry and move the fuck on. Because telling someone to jump on the train you're leaping from is such obvious bullshit smoke-blowing.
Eh, I don't know about that. I've seen people take what looks like worse jobs or dead end ones because they felt God wanted them to, usually so that person can make a difference or turn things around.
If he he mentioned one single thing about "opportunity," pay, talent, something negative about the coaches here or anything other than God pushing him in a different direction, I might have taken it the way you are, but to me, it almost sounds like he doesn't even know why he's going, other than that he is being led there.
Of course, he's being led there. ...by a fat sack of cash.
Yeah that kind of rubs me the wrong way. Don't try to soften the blow with that bs, just say thanks and move on.
EXACTLY.
Its like market analysts dumping stocks from their own portfolio while at the same time pumping them up publicly on TV
It's like your girlfriend talking for 15 minutes about how great you are as she's dumping you.
Lol, it does have a bit of a pump and dump feel to it. Man being a VT fan is punishment these days.
It's what we deserve for tolerating decades of incompetent administration
it makes me wonder if there is a personal or family reason for making the move
I can't get past "unshakeable foundation" as he's literally shaking the foundation.
The statement wouldn't be so bad if he had more wins and/or years at VT.
Notre Dame is AIDS
Wow - really?
Maybe I'm touchy because I know a guy who is a hemophiliac that got it from a transfusion, or maybe that's just a shitty insult.
So now we have a very inexperienced OC and lost the two other members of the offensive brain trust who had prior experience as OCs. Part of me wonders if they were looking to get out of town as fast as they can. My confidence in Bowen has almost completely eroded. Now who are we going to be able to find on insanely short notice before spring ball to coach OL? Hate to say it, but I really sense we are going to have to start from square one on offense after this season, with the exception of Mines.
shouldn't be hard when we barely left square zero last year
I'm torn between two images
1)
and 2)
Let's stay away from Jail in any respect to our program.
Maybe we can lure Todd Washington back to blacksburg...
Interesting little back and forth with Todd in the replies..
Let's start a twitter public pressure campaign for Pry and Whit to get Todd home!
Would be my number 1 choice. Hokie alum, Super Bowl champ, NFL experience, knows Bowen from the Jags, and would probably recruit well with connections in state.
I RTed his reply to the tweet above, tagging Whit and Pry, and Todd liked it...
Getting the sense that if they make the right offer, he'd hop over
edit:
Todd is liking every reply to Pry's tweet that says to bring him home
Downsides. Hasn't recruited a day in his coaching career.
Def not at a P5 level for sure.
Think he could figure it out pretty quick. He's respected throughout VA and recruits will like NFL chops. Plus OL I want someone above all else that can actually coach the position very well, we can get another ace recruiter on staff at RB or QB coach.
Mines is the offensive recruiting coordinator if I'm not mistaken. Pair him up with Mines on recruiting trips. Maybe even a couple with Jones. Those two could teach him some stuff in a hurry I'd wager.
Coming from the NFL not sure that would be a problem. It would just be the time commitment that could be an issue
this is not ideal, the whole purpose of giving multiyear deals to these guys was to give them time to grow together and mesh
Yep. I just sense this whole experiment on offense wasn't working and Glenn and Rudolph were like thanks but no thanks after one year. Why we are so cursed on offense I will never understand.
One is getting a big bump from P5 position coach to OC and the other had Notre Dame's money bags thrown at him. Don't make this something it isn't.
Yeah but they were hired by Pry as guys who wanted to be here through a rebuild and would stay a few years allegedly. Leaving after one year, especially with spring ball so close isn't great. Don't blame them for getting better gigs but that means they were looking for something better than what they had.
Unfortunately I think everyone in college football is now always looking for something better than what they have. It's what this league has become.
In my world of business, I've seen that in the worldly perspective nowadays. I can't blame some folks, and can still wish Joe the best while not loving the decision.
I agree with this, Pry supposedly turned some more qualified guys away that he thought were climbers. Looks like that didn't do a whole lot of good, because no matter the person most people will take a better job that pays higher
Rudolph is considered one of the top OL coaches in college football. I doubt Pry turned anyone away anyone that would be considered more qualified. I think that comment was more directed at the young coaches that were hired, not Rudolph or even Glenn (who went from G5 QB/OC to just QB ).
Who says they were looking? I think Rudolph was well known enough and respected enough that ND may very well have approached him without him looking. Not sure about Glenn, but if he was respected enough, I don't think it's hard to imagine someone came knocking on his door rather than the other way around also.
Well hiring a defensive first time HC and essentially a first time OC, what did we expect?
This is not...
... ideal.
Sub-optimal even.
Yall won't like it, but Stinespring is a hell of an OL coach and a top recruiter in the state of Virginia. Bring him home.
At this point I'd be open to that
I'd be up for stinespring, he lived and breathed va tech football
Only if there's a clause in his contract stating that if Bowen is fired, Stinespring is ineligible to be elevated to OC.
Yea I'd hate to have those 10 win seasons, ACC Offensive POYs, and record breaking running backs we had under him again. That would be THE WORST.
It's when your fullback has a sweet mullet and fumanchu
Maybe if you have a fullback?
Imagine what we could have done with a top 50 offense
It would have to be explicitly written into his contract that he will NEVER be OC.
I replied F___ no! to Stinespring below, but if some magical way could be found to ensure he only does OL coaching and NEVER has anything to do with our OC role, I guess I could grit my teeth and try to live with it.
I'm not sure who wouldn't like this idea. Everyone on this site has mentioned how great Stiney was as an OL/TE coach and recruiter. Would be a fantastic hire IMO.
We didn't pretend to be anything we weren't. And we won A LOT of games with him on-staff, regardless of what role he was in.
He hasn't recruited at a P5 level since he left VT (around 10 years ago). When he left VT, he couldn't get another job at a P5 level (the biggest red flag there is). And he eventually dropped down to a high school role before bouncing up at VMI because of his connection with Rocco.
He was a great recruiter and good o-line coach for Tech back in the day, but this is a bad idea and the Hokies can do much better.
The wins we got were not because of Stinespring but in spite of him. Great defenses overcoming offensive ineptitude. What was it, 3 years in a row with offenses ranted around 100th? I do understand that he was solid as an OL coach, but the memories of his OC days - and the feeling that he would want a greater role than just OL coach - make Stinespring a no way in hell choice for me.
Nitpicking, but he was the OL coach at Maryland before Edsall got fired after the 2018 season, so another P5 program was willing to hire him.
I don't think we'll go this way. I think if Pry wanted Stiney on staff, he would have been part of his original group of hires last year. However, if we're trying to avoid people who don't have any P5 recruiting experience over the last 10 years then that also eliminates Todd Washington. He's also not at the top of my list but seems to be for everyone else.
I just want the best person for the job. if the VT/Bowen/commonwealth ties and NFL experience make that be Todd Washington, then so be it. If there is a better person for the job out there, then let's go get that person.
the best coaches for VT don't all have to have VT roots
I'm not opposed to Stiney, but like you I think if there was serious interest in him coming back, he would have been hired last year when Pry first got here. I like Washington for his potential upside, but I acknowledge there is risk. They're going to have to vet everyone and find the best fit. At the end of the day we need someone to mesh with what Bowen wants to do and develop the OL first and foremost, whoever is best qualified for that.
Unless Pry was able to get an OL coach of the caliber of Joe Rudolph.
I read his CV at VMI before I posted and Maryland was omitted and I forgot about it: https://vmikeydets.com/staff-directory/bryan-stinespring/348. It is fair to mention, not nitpicking, but either way I don't remember a lot of schools beating down his door post-Tech and we see what route he went after UMD.
Given his relationship with Pry, I am surprised he hasn't come in back in an analyst role or another off the field role because I think that would be very solid.
Could part of that be because they were more likely considering him as an OC thought and not as a the OL position coach?
I mean, I'd think certain aspects of recruiting may be things that don't matter in regards to being away from P5 (like a way with people and being able to sell a program, and maybe even sell a vision for a program. He may be behind on social media and technology, but we've got people on staff that can help with that.)
Not saying I think we should hire him, but it's at least an intriguing notion to me.
I don't think he really tried to get another P5 job, at least not right away. His career shows that he prioritizes sticking around Virginia, particularly the I-81 corridor over pursuing big names or big bucks.
He did spend one season at Maryland in 2018 but wasn't retained when Locksley was hired in 2019.
Bad blood between Stinespring and Whit. Will never happen.
Go on....
Yeah, that one's a bit juicy to just leave hanging out there
Happened quickly. Not great to have guys actively looking for new jobs this close to spring ball
was he actively looking...or did notre dame contact him?
picking up the phone is an activity
oh please, i know we're all salty right now but there is a huge difference between "actively looking" and "open to a career move"
I'm joking 🙃
Sure, but this one absolutely stings.
allegedly he was looking due to the change in offensive philosophy made at the end of the year, but was being picky. He interviewed with the Colts and with Notre Dame, both significant steps up from VT.
Honestly, this makes so much sense. We wanted to be a hard nosed run down your throat football team before season kicked off. That failed. Miserably. We pivoted toward a more RPO look offense as the year went on and found more success. I think if you spent the majority of your coaching career trying to perfect the run heavy offensive line philosophy and were hired to a program with the initial expectation that was going to continue and then it changes you can see how that might make him re-think his situation
I agree (+ the alleged money bags being thrown at him) with all of this.
My biggest question/complaint here is this: what was Rudolph (and Glenn's ) initial expectations about the offense that they were going to run?
Because it seems like we brought a lot of guys with disparate schemes together and just thought that it would somehow work itself out. Not to say that you can't take guys from different offensive philosophies and mesh them together, but there should have been some kind of deliberate plan from either Pry or Bowen.
There may have been one, we just didn't hear it. And the vision may have been different than the players on the roster, 3 new OL, new QB, injured RBs, inconsistent (at best) receivers (other than Smith) allowed for.
We went out and got a bunch of upgrades to offensive positions through the portal, so it would have been (will be?) interesting to see if we see more of an offensive identity form this coming year.
Maybe someone will hire Bowen away from us as well?? *fingers crossed*
Sucks, but now we know one thing for sure. This offense is 100% Tyler Bowen's. He will have full control over our style of play. Will the line be good enough to judge him on it this year. I would say probably not
lol. I think our offense might legitimately be worse next year
at this point, I'll be (pleasantly) surprised if our offense makes it out of the triple digits in major rankings
Yep, we lost a lot of returning production in Smith and King then Jordan and Dzansi on the line. Hanson injured on the line as well. We'll see if the new guys can replace them, I'm not so sure.
i am way more "worried" about the line than i am about the skill positions
Fuck.
I think I'm done following VT athletics. I'm tired of slowly poisoning myself with hope looking towards a future that doesn't exist.
Two offensive assistants hired from probably the worst offense we've ever had at VT. It's at least a little funny.
Best of luck to him. Hopefully we nail these two hires.
These next two hires might be more important than the first hires for Pry.
One semi-positive thought, with Rudolph gone he has a relatively big pot to hire two coaches.
Lol prepare your butt for us to hire internally for at least one and overpay a first time coach.
It's more revealing that funny.
Historically bad offense? Check.
Both running and passing game coordinators hired by better programs? Check.
What does Occam's Razor tell you about the root cause of our offensive problems?
That maybe the problem wasn't the X's and O's, it was the Jimmies and Joes.
I'd say it's more likely it was this guy's X's & O's not sync'ing with that guy's X's & O's. Too many players regressed on that offense last year to blame it on the jimmy's and joe's.
Regressed? We lost 3 starting OL, new QB, lost our two most productive receivers, and one RB seemed to regress (maybe because he was only good behind a good OL?), but two other backs improved. There wasn't enough returning talent to have "regressed." We had mostly a "different but worse" pool of players, which, technically speaking, is different than regressing.
I'm rattling off from memory, but most (if not all) the O lineman regressed according to PFF. Parker Clements specifically comes to mind as having a regression from 2021 when he was honored with 3rd team All ACC by PFF. Grant Wells, had less yards and TDs, worse completion percentage than the year before. Thomas also regressed, but that was due to injury.
There was also a lack of development in the TEs not named Wright and in the receivers not named Smith.
The players that actually progressed from 2021 were: King, Smith, Wright, and Holston.
We didn't have historically bad talent on O, though. Offensive performance <<< offensive talent.
Our staff took mediocre talent and fielded a vastly sub-mediocre offense. As Marc says, players regressed. This falls on the coaches.
Yep we fielded like a 110-120 level offense with top 60-70 level players (i.e. it was almost twice as bad, or worse due to differences in P5 and G5 talent, than should be expected)
This whole argument about top 60 talent assumes that they had one iota of development under the prior regime, while it is clear they did not.
We brought in FCS/G5 transfers at RB, WR (3), a backup QB, and they are all going to start. We're still looking for an OL transfer as well. I don't care what the high school rankings pre covid said, we had no talent on that side of the ball. Not to mention the fact that the numbers were inflated by us having 11 RBs on the roster
If by "no talent" you mean four productive returning starters on the offensive line. Two talented running backs who contributed early in their careers. A two year starter at QB coming off a 66% 3,500 yd season at a decent G5. A productive senior receiver (who ended up having 37 catches for ~700 yds), a former 1,000 yd receiver w 4 years of experience, and a young receiver who even guys on separate staffs raved about for two spring practices in a row. A productive three year contributor at tight end. Then sure.
By virtue of being in the P5 we already have top 60 talent at worst, (but we also were not the least talented P5 team on offense). Obviously that doesn't translate to raw numbers because of quality of opponent. But with the returners I mentioned, it should easily be enough to field an offense in the 70's or 80's.
I don't know that I would classify any of the linemen outside of the elder Moore brother (who is still young) as productive returning starters. Clements is a coin flip, but he was injured and got manhandled for the first 8-9 games because of it. Some of French's clips even showed him getting washed all the way down past the center.
Those two talented running backs were both extremely under-sized, and did not have 1,000 career yards between them entering last year. King rushed for something like 300 yards in 2019, and Thomas ran for 400 last year. That's it.
Smith was a hard worker and got every bit of production he could out of his limited skill set. Nothing but respect for him, but he was a clear #3 behind Turner and Robinson, and he was not a true number 1 receiver. That did not change this year. He had straight line speed and good hands, but did not really scare anyone.
I'll put it this way: outside of Caleb Smith, what other guy on our offense last year could go to another P5 school and potentially start? I don't think there is one.
We've discussed how high school rankings don't guarantee performance in college. I don't know what our receivers were rated, but, other than Smith, didn't perform like they were in the 60s range. Our RBs were injured, which is big for consistency and lack of production (I don't know if they average the stats, but having the #1 RB and number #119 RB averages to 60, but if the #1 guy is injured 3/4 of the year, you'd expect to get results closer to the #119 ranking, right?).
And OL performance, despite rankings, I would think also depends more on experience. Like you see some RBs, QBs, and receivers be able to step in on P5 teams and play well, but how often do you see Freshmen start on the O Line?
So yeah, maybe our overall talent pool was in the 60s, but I don't think what we actually had available on the field was something you'd rate in the 60s, regardless of coaching (you can't coach RBs to play if they're injured, they can't make receivers catch balls that were catchable, and your best option at QB can't consistently deliver catchable balls, despite coaching (which was presumably better than the previous year's QB coach).
Even though it's frustrating, the fact that both were sought after by bigger programs or for bigger roles tells me that Pry's hires were well thought of in the coaching world even if we were frustrated with the results in the first year. That gives me some confidence that he knows good people and is able to convince them to come here. Next part is getting them to stay obviously.
This is one of the most level-headed takes on here.
-A P5 QB coach leaving for a P5 OC job makes sense.
-A P5 OL coach leaving for the same job at one of the bluest of blue bloods that also happens to be in the Midwest region where he has spent most of his career is 100% understandable.
The timing absolutely sucks, but two coaches leaving for better opportunities should not be surprising. Neither is an indictment of Pry, just a consequence of VT's current place in CFB.
No words.
Who could we even hire away at this time of year?
Don't think we should hire Stiney but he was a decent OL coach. Obviously a shit OC though. Dood could recruit too. Not sure how well I'm today's environment
Oh F___ no!
UNLV has a young up and comer with P5 experience in the region
Rumors on the free side of 24/7 that big STU Holt might be heading out as well
That would be a bad look
Yep. Sounds like staff attrition isn't finished.
A few vocal Twitter talking head fans will actually like that.
I wouldn't sweat losing that one. Does it look sorta bad that 3 coaches are leaving at the same time? Sure, but this specific coach given what ST looked like last year? Yeah, have fun on your new adventure!
That would be unsurprising
Snake bit! What a cluster f—-k situation with so close to spring ball. Just another reason for me to continue hating Notre Dammit.
Hope Pry can hire a decent replacement.
How about Byron Leftwich to coach QB's, Todd Washington to coach the O Line, and take your pick at RB.
Super Bowl winning offensive coordinator Byron Leftwich is gonna take a job as QB coach on a rebuilding ACC team?
Maybe! Unemployed now isn't he 😼
How much $$$ are we thinking ND is going to pay him?
word on TSL is that he is now the highest paid OL coach in college football. Maybe all of football? I don't think NFL OL coaches get paid 7 figures.
sounds like VT offered him a 200k+ raise to stay but ND's offer was another 300k on top of that.
That's some serious cash
for an OL coach.Not sure what ND logic is to not pay for the
Utah OC but then turning around and giving an OL coach an amount approaching/into 7 figures.
Like I get there was a buyout, but they could have turned around and done the same thing when the guy inevitably gets a HC offer.
So the same ND that would not pay the buyout to get the OC they wanted is out bidding us for an OL coach?
https://www.si.com/college/notredame/.amp/football/notre-dame-refuses-to...
Well first of all it's almost March. Notre Dame can't be going into spring ball without an OL coach. That probably gave Rudolph some leverage. As did VT's proposed raise.
But also, maybe they learned their lesson about being stingy?
or maybe Freeman or just a well-funded donor really likes Rudolph?
or maybe buyouts were not the actual sticking point in their OC search?
https://theathletic.com/4247353/2023/02/24/notre-dame-offensive-coordina...
paywall so here's some key quotes
Well first of all it's almost March. Notre Dame can't be going into spring ball without an OL coach.
We are about to one up them on that one. No OL coach, I'll see that and raise no QB coach.
Todd Washington- OL Coach
Mike Vick - QB Coach
Honestly wouldn't hate if with Vick, maybe assistant would be a better place to start. Gonna be decently hard to find a QB coach who isn't already an OC, maybe we can get an OC from CUSA/Sun Belt again.
Unfortunately isn't Vick legally prevented from being a coach because of his felony conviction? I would love him as a QB coach if eligible.
Not legally prevented, but have been doing research - it looks like the NCAA does not allow coaches with violent or drug related felony charges. It's also hard to tell if dogfighting is considered violent because most articles I saw said dogfighting is ASSOCIATED with violent crimes (sounds like offenders are also frequently guilty of assaults and murders and gang activity).
On top of that, many people think he learned his lessons and whatnot, but how many recruits' moms are going to trust their sons to someone who did that (I say that because most of the people I've met that think VERY negatively still of Vick are female). I think it would be a very large risk honestly, especially for a guy who doesn't have much coaching experience, and no college coaching or recruiting experience. While young players may look up to Vick as an amazing player, I have to think the parents looking out for their kids might be a much tougher sell.
If he had some experience with amazing development of players out of high school, it might be one thing, but as big a fan of his as I was, I think I'd pass.
I think with certain moms you could spin it well. "Your kid can learn from my mistakes. I came from these kinds of neighborhoods, and I can show your kid the importance of having the right friends and staying clean."
However, I wonder how good Vick would be as a coach. The most naturally gifted are not always the best teachers, because sometimes they don't get how to teach the little things that just come naturally to them. I think he would be an icredibly high risk hire.
What's Tyrod's dad up to these days. He fixed the hitch in Tyrod's delivery when Mike O'Cain couldn't. Seems like a guy that pays attention to detail...
I like that spin on things.
And definitely agree that the most gifted are not necessarily good coaches. As good as we want to be, I don't think hiring someone that is largely unproven at any level is a sound move. If you're just trying to get him on board for his name and NFL experience, make him a staffer.
I'm looking at it this way. Yes, losing coaches sucks. But, was ANYONE here impressed with how our OL performed at all this past season??? I was not, and although this wasn't the coaching position that I felt needed to be addressed the most, the performance last year didn't give me a lot of reasons as to why we would need to fight to retain him.
Their performance was not impressive, but their transformation from how they started to how they finished the season was definitely impressive. Rudolph made some magic happen essentially playing 6 guys and turned it into a decent unit. Looking at it as "they sucked last year so he's not that great" is an extremely short-sighted view. There's a reason ND came calling.
Would love to see the French analysis on just how much better the OL got over the season, and if it was Rudolph's known tendencies that they got better in.
Non-head coaches moving around - quickly - is becoming the rule rather than the exception these days. Get used to it (although like most recent changes, the game will degrade because of it). I wonder if these guys see the NIL writing on the wall and are trying to get theirs now before the $$ really start shifting (dramatically I suspect) to the players?
Coach hiring will be a lot like the portal...find undervalued guys at lesser programs and underutilized guys at better programs. Everybody's a free agent.
Just so I understand, are you suggesting that NIL resulting in more above-the-table money going to players will cause a decrease in coaching salaries?
I might be wrong, but I was reading it as NIL just means the difference between the haves and have nots is getting bigger and bigger. As a coach, just like as a player, if you want to win and be on a seriously competitive team, you need to get into one of the have programs.
I can buy that logic. It just was not how I read it. Leg!
I think your comment is more accurate. There are a lot of opinion articles (and you can even hear it from ADs, including VT's Whit Babcock) that the legit money that has been donated to Athletic Depts. are going to shift to NILs.
Essentially, there was an unbalance of value in which the Ath. Depts. were getting money that should have gone to the players more directly. ADs spent stupid money on waterfalls, slides, and over-the-top locker rooms. ADs also paid college coaches crazy money too (way more than their value, at least as compared to any other state gov't employee or to NFL-level coaches). The actual value will now be more realized as the distribution of legit money will go less to the athletic depts and more to the players via NIL.
Marc seems to be taking the next logical step: coaches should be looking for their payday NOW before salaries begin to level off.
I seriously wonder what the gap will really be? I think we may get into a frenzy situation of some schools bidding like crazy for the best players, but then how many times does it take getting bitten in the ass having payed ludicrous amounts to a HS player that winds up busting in college before people decide there's a limit to what they should even consider spending, but that it may get structured in a way where, once performance has been demonstrated, they pay the exorbitant amounts for a player to STAY at the school?
And if that happens, do we start seeing kids stay in college longer because the differential in the NFL isn't as big? This seems like it could play out in so many different ways.
Damn. Andy Bitter sure was let go at a bad time.
This is suboptimal.
This is why we should have kept VV.
I for one believe that Vicki Vallencourt could absolutely instill a burning fire in this team.
I'd see if Vicky can bulk up and bring some nastiness to the OL at this point
Seems like a big loss. The optimist in me though, thinks our next OL coach will be tuned towards what looks like something resembling a Spread Offense. I get the impression that we're not going back to hard nosed, smash mouth football anytime soon.
We shall see if it works out.
At the end of the day, I really only care about VT Football. Winning in other sports is fine in Blacksburg, but I can only devote my limited spare time to the FBS season. I know I'm not the only one, either. We better remain something of a respectable Football School.
TBH mixed feelings. I wasn't really a believer in Rudolph. Wisconsin people didn't seem all that sad to see him go, and I felt our oline underperformed with him even given the state of the roster.
On the flip side, it feels like a bad look. Reading between the lines, given the prestige of their offers, other programs obviously believe guys like Glenn and Rudolph were "not the problem" so to speak.
Just think - despite winning 3 games and having one of the worst offenses in FBS, other schools at similar or higher levels have tried to poach at least 3 of our offensive coaches. I feel like that tells us how bad the roster was last year.
This is a Rorschach test. What people read into the situation says more about them than it does the situation. For people who think Bowen is trash, this confirms it. For people who think our roster was the real problem, this confirms it.
For commenters on TSL articles, this is proof we should fire everyone from the university president down to the water boys, burn Lane to the ground, and take a steaming dump on the ashes.
let's not knock it till we try it
"confirms" is a strong word to me. I prefer to thinking of it as a data point. Yeah let's not fire everyone at the university over this, but perhaps let's not act like it means nothing as well?
He's just talking about an individual's own bias and using this to "confirm" what they already believed anyway. He definitely wasn't using "confirm" as any actual fact being proven,
And that isn't even bad compared to what those clowns Don V and Joe Rodgers say regularly
Glad I'm not the only one.
You're not the only one. I usually don't even look at the comments over there, but I had to respond to the guy who said we should be embarrassed to lose a coach to Notre Dame because "they've never actually won anything".
Like, what?
This gave me a good chuckle
I don't think we can read that much into it. Just like we shouldn't assume that these guys are just jumping ship because they can't get along with each other, I don't think it's reasonable to jump to the conclusion that the players were the problem.
It's not necessarily a bad thing our coaches are being poached. But the timing of it is troublesome and I worry about how those losses will impact the results next year since we're losing, on paper, two of our most experienced coaches.
Our offense was historically bad last year. The talent was certainly an issue but it was far from the only issue. The players who did return regressed. The play calling was vanilla and the adjustments were nonexistent. The unforced errors were numerous and mind numbing and there seemed to be very little, if any, progress throughout the season until the liberty game.
The offense looked pretty much how you'd expect an offense to look under a first year coordinator with no experience. Bad. Like 120/130 bad. The talent wasn't 120/130 bad. Probably 80 or 90/130 but this offense, with more competent coaching, would have been at least 3 or 4 ppg better.
It will be very interesting to see how this offense looks in 2023. Bowen will either earn his keep or get canned. I still don't understand why Pry hired him to begin with. Maybe he's the sacrificial lamb. Maybe Pry understood that he needed a fall guy to buy him more time. Maybe the plan all along was to put a noob in the spotlight while Pry quietly built a stellar defense and when that noob failed he could hit reset on offense and actually hire someone who knows what the hell they are doing. Maybe he figured he wanted a head start on defense. I mean, imagine if a defensive guy like Pry came into his first hc gig and the offense put his defense to shame.
I say all of this, in part, to illustrate how silly it is to jump to simplistic conclusions like "the coaches were actively looking to get outta Blacksburg" or "the players must have been the real problem"
The reality is that our offense was historically bad last year and two of our most experienced coaches are leaving and putting us us in a tough spot this late in the game. It's not looking promising that our offense will make much progress in 2023. We shall see.
Big dogged again. It's a way of life for VT football. Strong back and soldier on. Just gotta stick with CBP and hope for better days.
Amen! I actually just renewed my season tickets today! And even added one so I can bring another friend with us for games this fall!
Side note- the renewALL site was horrible- I had gotten to the cart but realized I didn't know if I'd done it all correctly so went back to the selection page -but then couldn't get to the "cart" again. Ended up calling them direct left a request for call back ; and they got back to me by phone within two hours and took care of it all by phone.
Oh yeah "RenewAll" is the latest in a long line of huge failures from our athletic fund raising arm.
Our e-commerce is so shittty, it's embarrassing. I ended up having to CALL the ticket office to renew. What a joke. There are high schools with better e-commerce tools!
I have no idea how we are this incompetent, but it is an absolute joke and infuriating.
Yep- then the day after I renew by phone, I got an email that- 'you only have two days left and you haven't renewed yet' and when I went on the website, it looked like I hadn't paid and renewed. I have the receipts and the $ shows on my CC. I ended up calling back to confirm and was told that the email was likely automated (sloppy ) and that yes I was fine. Still gonna watch carefully in the coming weeks and raise Cain if anything is out of whack.
PS the guy I talked to agreed the website was dysfunctional and that MANY people had to call in to renew. Pretty sure I could have done better with early 1980s technology like Lotus 123 and BASIC!
Probably was tired of being mistaken as Bud in town
/s
I can't find a way to feel good about this yet. So...
Just look at the improvement in the roster. Improved depth and talent at qb, WR, RB. It was a good haul.
I know that you're convinced talent was the reason our offense was the worst it's been in decades last year.... but someone has to coach the talent. Someone has to study the defense and figure out how to attack it. Someone has to call the plays and make adjustments.
I might be over simplifying here but having to replace two of our most experienced offensive coaches as we head into spring isn't going to give many people a lot of confidence. And pointing to modest talent upgrades as reason to be optimistic seems disingenuous. There was a lot more wrong with our offense than just talent in 2022. I don't think a slight bump in talent would make a significant difference in production even if we kept all the same coaches.
Your point is well taken.
I make those comments sort of tongue-in-cheek. I understand that it's not as simple as 247 rankings + coaching ability. I do believe that the talent underperformed their low ranking last year (not due just to coaching IMO).
Not oversimplifying at all. It's difficult timing for a coaching search, and as someone who watched more GA St football than most, I have always (for the last 3 years at least) thought very highly of Glen..
I wouldn't call the talent upgrades modest. We completely overhauled the WR room, including the second highest rated transfer in the portal (Jennings). We got a top 10 portal QB in Drones. We beat out UGA for an RB transfer.
I'm not naive enough to think the talent upgrades will magically fix the offense, and I'm confident that we still have depth issues, but I think these upgrades are more than 'modest' and are something to be excited about. I think we raised our win ceiling 2 games with these upgrades. That's a big deal imo. 6 or 7 wins in year 2 would be a tremendous success. I don't know if I think that is 'likely', but I think it's possible with the talent on the roster. That's more than I could say last year.
Long and short is I am a Hokie fan. I will root for the team winning season or not. I want there to be improvement on offense and on defense this year. There were games last year, when I was sitting in the stands thinking there are other things I could be doing. I have been a season ticket holder for 20+ years, and that is the first time when I wished I was elsewhere.
That said, putting on the positive hat. Our program just got big dogged to hire away two of our offensive coaches. That means Pry did the right thing in bringing them in. He needs to hire the next two right guys. Our other staff has now had a year to work together, grow and learn. Bowen has a better idea of how to do his job. He knows he is coaching for his job this year.
The new staff and coaches have had a year of practice in relating to the players and how to coach them. Lets move forward and just win, baby.
Leg for the Boondock Saints reference
FUCKIN NOTRE DAME!
This football team is so sad we all get charity tax breaks just by being fans.
I don't think you can want Todd Washington to come here, and then shit on Tyler Bowen. They have worked together before under a very toxic HC. Todd obviously knows he's the OC here and reading between the lines on Twitter he definitely wants to come home.
Honestly, I think hiring Washington makes sense in that if Bowen is what we have, it at least makes sense to hire somebody who is familiar with what he wants to run.
Rudolph had a great resume but he didn't seem like a fit for the system (if you call whatever we did last year a system). I think the money was probably important but I wouldn't discount the lack of continuity as also contributing to him moving on really quickly--he was certainly well compensated here.
So at this point, Bowen is what you have, go all-in on him and see if he can make it work. I'm not excited about it or particularly optimistic for the O to improve, but we are really not flush with options at this point. It's not great.
We need one of these for football.
Not exact, but usually close enough to work:
Yeah, definitely works.
"Where's my truck?"
Where's my offensive coaching staff?
I'd say let Stiney coach the OL again. For a good salary.
Rudy Rudy Rudy Rudy Rudy Rudy Rudy
Worst sports story ever.
RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY but to the whopper commercial
Serious question - any chance Bowen would become the OL coach / running game coordinator and we hire an overall offensive coordinator who also serves as the QB coach?
That would certainly open us up to more candidates. Having a dedicated QB coach who is not the offensive coordinator seems like it will always limit us to (a) someone good who will be lured away for a coordinator position or (b) someone experienced who has underperformed, or (c) someone with limited experience.
Bowen was a former offensive lineman and has coached OL before. He would likely not want this but honestly, his stent as an offensive coordinator is going to be an utter failure and short lived if he can't surround himself with solid people. Getting someone good to specifically coach QBs this late in the game in an offensive that is overhauled with limited staff experience and no track record to suggests confidence that things will improve seems highly highly improbable.
Given what Anae did at UVA and Syracuse, would love to lure him away from NC State.
I just threw up all over myself after being evangelized reading his GT'ingTFO twitter statement. What a f-ing joke that was and everything CFB is now.
I can't even bother more than to check this website forum here and there out of curiosity, watch a couple hours of games during the entire season and be disappointed. I don't know how to like this game anymore.
I think the obvious thing everyone is overlooking...Blacksburg is just to tropical of a climate for Rudolph. He needed to get back to the frigid winters
With the short sleeves and shorts weather we have had in Feb this year, I can believe that.
Hey, I joke around that I should have been born in Greenland as I would have fit right in. At least weather-wise.
name checks out
It was -21 in Wyoming two weeks ago. I like it cold but that was painful....
After careful consideration and consultation with my wife, if offered, I will respectfully decline the position as VT Running Game Coordinator.
Vice?
Vice and Shibest are tight. I don't see them separating at this point. Unless Vice's wife and kids just really loved Blacksburg and the money was good.
And then beyond that you have scheme considerations.
I'd take both back, shibest biggest issue was finding some one who could catch a punt and return it. That's way better than what we saw last year.
Saw this list with some interesting names on it. A few that haven't floated around the boards yet.
https://techlunchpail.com/blog/potential-candidates-to-replace-joe-rudol...
Coach Pry was recently on the TSL podcast and he briefly talked about his strategy for hiring. Essentially, he has a list of potential replacements that he keeps, which are based primarily on prior relationships and whether they would fit the VT culture. He and Bowen have been working together to keep this list and to further select the next set of coaches. By the sounds of it, he will work from his short list. He didn't make any indication that he would (or would not) entertain interviews with anyone not on their list, but based on the way he emphasized the short list, I would guess that anyone not on the list probably won't be hired.
That Tech Lunch Pail list is pretty good, but based on Pry's comments, you can probably cross off any that do not seem to have to have a prior relationship with Pry or Bowen. And based on the interview, there will be a lot more input from Bowen on the hire this time around and thus prior relationships with Bowen may be more important than relationships with Pry. It would also be a good bet that Bowen will want a coach that he trusts will be able to implement his vision for the offense, so likely someone with similar RPO experience or can quickly pick up his vision. Who that is? No idea, but someone smarter than me can probably read those tea leaves and get together a good list.
This is good insight and it makes a lot of sense.
The worst part of all of this is that it leaves little room for bright young minds who could come in and really boost our offense
For example, a lot of folks have been suggesting Christian Taylor would be a great hire (and he probably would be) but I doubt very much that he'd ever get a look if Pry and Co are really emphasizing prior relationships. I think that is a pretty limiting strategy which concerns me.
I didn't get the impression that the candidates on his list were only coaches that he has worked with before. He gave an example of how James Franklin would meet with defensive coordinators at coaching conventions in case Brent Pry left. I got the feeling that Pry was doing the same thing. So his list might include coaches that he or Bowen haven't coached with before.
Yea, he emphasized guys they "know" but not necessarily people they have worked with before. I'd imagine we'll find out in the next couple of weeks though.
That's true, he did also talk about people he met in conferences and such. I didn't mean to imply that it was only direct working relationships, but he did make it seem that if it was from a conference (or some other event) that it was one in which the relationship was one of a KIT relationship, and not ephemeral.
Totally agree. I'm hopeful for a hire that fits, but isn't necessarily a Fuente style "we're pals and we worked together" situation.
All of his defensive hires made a ton of sense because they all have some understanding of how he does things defensively or are attached to Virginia Tech. But they aren't all necessarily Pry's guys. Derek Jones is a perfect example of a good coach that's he's kept in touch with through the years and was a perfect fit. I think he and Pry coached together for 1 year like 15 years ago. I'm hopeful that's sort of what we end up with for the QB and OL coach hires.
Yeah, I really hope it goes deeper than "let's compare boys clubs and hire whoever overlaps"
I think Notre Dame doesn't really report coaching salaries, but is there any estimation for Rudolph's new salary at ND? Just wondering if he is pushing close to a million bucks now lol. Would that be a first for a non-coordinator position coach? I figure he also could have just left based on the strength of the program, but I'd think there would have been at least some financial gain.
Probably some where between 8-900 only two OL coaches make more and it's Bama and UGA
From what I can find Alabama paid their OL coach 900K last season but Rudolph has already surpassed Georgia's OL coach salary of 655K from what he was getting paid at VT. Pretty interesting to see the numbers! I'd guess Rudolph would have to be in the 800 range too.
from posts on TSL, Rudolph is now the highest paid OL coach in the country and is getting 7 digits.
2022 Salary @ VT: $725,000
rumored retention offer from VT: $950,000
rumored salary @ND: $1,200,000+
here are some #'s from last year
https://footballscoop.com/news/highest-paid-offensive-line-coaches-2022-...
So, if the rumors are to be believed, we offered to make him the highest paid OL coach in the country? (Prior to ND's counter). Honestly, that's awesome. Rudolph's merits aside, this is the kind of gumption it's going to take for us to keep the coaching talent that we believe in. We'll live and die by the quality of our hires, but at least we'll live and die by the quality of our hires and not the money in our bank account.
Agreed - if we truly floated that high of an offer to try and retain him, it gives me more confidence in school leadership committing to the true costs of building up a competitive staff and team.
It's an interesting strategy by Pry to go unproven (aka cheap) on the coordinators and pay close to top dollar for experienced position coaches.
Worth nothing that the rumored retention offer is more than either coordinator is making. Not sure I've ever seen that.
With how shit our offensive line has been (for almost forever, with one good year in 2020) I'm 100% on board making that the top priority with who we hire. Lets go steal someone who always has a good unit.
Purdue just stole a guy from UTSA who put together some P5 level lines at what was then a very low G5 school, that'd be the kind of guy we should look at imo. Maybe someone who knows how to recruit this region, BUT as Bud Elliott recently pointed out, a team with a recruiter and not a real coach coach at OL is generally a losing team