Discuss and share any recruiting topics for July 2023 that don't warrant their own threads. Commits and decommits warrant their own threads.
This recruiting thread is used to share information regarding VT-specific targets, PWO offers, scholarship offers, visits, camps, and general news, in addition to larger trends. In the interests of limiting load times, favor post links to tweets rather than embedding. And if you want to embed, please check the thread to see if a tweet was already embedded prior to adding it yourself.
[0] Please do some digging to share original content (e.g. embed the original tweet, not a link to another post/website with said tweet), add context / relevant information and respect the Community Guidelines.
[1] New commitments, decommitments, portal entries, etc... deserve their own thread. Please read the brief best-practice tips at the top of the recruiting forum
[2] Scared money don't make money.
[3] Pry Marve 2024
[4] We must ride on the wings of the Pry-beast
Comments
Should be getting some very good news at 1pm today!
Can't wait!
6:30, now.
Picked a bad day to announce, with chucklefuck Elon breaking Twitter and all
Yeah such a stupid thing to do
On Canada day too (a far superior former British colony to South Africa)
In honor of my wonderful wife from Edmonton.
via GIPHY
Must be a Uva grad
For those still hoping to have Makai Byerson in orange and maroon and hoping a WVU coaching situation shift may make him reconsider, if you scroll down in the link taking about the WVA commitment, the next story is titled:
"Did WVU get a head start on future coaching search(es)?" Although that article is not open.
https://247sports.com/college/west-virginia/article/makai-byerson-commit...
That article is about the basketball coach. But that situation does let them work with search firms without people questioning it so Huggins situation could be a blessing in disguise for their football program.
Oh gosh. Sorry about the mix up.
..but I know what love is
Waiting for 6pm like...
6:30
Ahhh thanks lol
LET'S GO!
KROGERING!
With the price of groceries these days, I'm taking a hard pass.
Yessir!
I want the Hokie stone uniforms on rotation. They're some of my faves.
Lookin good this class
👀 👀
Really want to go and look at LeSabre right now but it would be a bad look to get an erection at this funeral
Coping as most fan bases would. Most replies about his commitment are in the "meh" range stating its not as big of a deal as it might look on the surface whether thats because they will still go out and get "their guys" or because the portal makes signing highly rated HS players less of a factor than it used to be as half of the players that start at a college won't complete their career there
See I expect to beat them in recruiting battles (and on the field). It's nice of course, but why would anyone ever choose to go there for football over VT
Not really recruiting but not worthy of a new thread. https://www.on3.com/college/virginia-tech-hokies/news/anonymous-opposing-coach-says-virginia-tech-has-no-talent-on-its-roster/
Not behind a paywall.
Sack Brown can go sit on a cactus
I'm not convinced it's Mack. Maybe Narduzi.
Also, from the article:
I thought it was a "long row to hoe"? Wouldn't that make more sense since one would use a hoe to work a row back in the day? If you're gonna use a garden tool for something wouldn't it make more sense for it to be a garden?
You are correct sir.
Could be the Nard-man. I was just figuring Mack because they kept mentioning Frank.
Nardz is exactly the type of asshole who would refer to Beamer as Frank because he thinks he deserves to be on that level even though he couldn't even carry his jockstrap
Mack doesn't strike me as either the type of guy to make these kinds of blatantly rude comments, even anonymously, or the type to be so in touch to know our talent is down now
Fuck Pat Narduzzi
Pat Narduzzi is just a barely sentient bag of pig assholes.
(mentally copying & pasting this into my list of insults)
The Chris Bickell '97 Head Football
ChodeBarely Sentient Bag of Pig AssholesStephen Godfrey is the one who collects the quotes for Athlon. He talks about it a lot on the podcast. Two things to remember:
In that case it could really be anyone. But also, I'd imagine that each assistant coach is a reflection of their head coach so it could be someone from Pitt's staff
...or any other coach in the ACC who saw our roster last year?
Yeah our roster was bad but I don't think talentless is accurate at all. No one could have predicted the offensive line playing that badly just given the roster, and we had formerly productive starters at QB and RB. The defense was almost entirely returning starters from the previous two years.
The only position group that was really talentless was wide receiver. Wide receiver, then OL and defensive depth were the big holes on last year's roster. Think it's an important distinction because we're flipping the back half of the roster. It will take longer than a conventional rebuild (because the biggest gaps are in our current r-SO, JR and r-JR classes)
I mean, idk where the line for 'talentless' is, but:
We did have this though
https://www.gobblercountry.com/platform/amp/2023/1/12/23553062/virginia-tech-football-more-honors-rolling-in-for-freshman-cornerback-mansoor-delane-hokies-acc
Also not behind a paywall
Delane was absolutely a bright spot in an otherwise dark season.
But to the original point of the comment... Virginia Tech had a dearth of talent compared to (a) the historical quality of Virginia Tech's roster, (b) the ACC, and (c) the P5. Perhaps the term 'talentless' was used too cavalierly, but I think the intent of the comment is pretty spot on.
I see what you did there...
And I like it
#1 & 2 might be evidence of a lack of talent - or it could be a lack of coaching or any number of things.
#4 & #6 have little to nothing to do with a lack of talent.
#3 How many players ostensibly eligible for the draft did VT have? And how many went early the previous years? Drafted players in a single year isn't a particularly good proxy for overall roster talent.
That leaves #5. And even that is influenced by the relative youth of a roster, the record of the team, and the subjective (and sometimes seemingly arbitrary) media perception of individual players, as well other media driven narratives.
Having said that I do think there was a talent dearth last year - some inherent and some related to youth. But honestly, the bigger issues with the program last year were not the players so much as the disconnect between the members of the offensive staff and a lack of coherent philosophy on both sides of the ball. I'm of the opinion last year was a nearly total disaster from a coaching perspective. And I place most of that on the top guy - starting with a number of decisions dating back almost to day 1.
The question remains...can that be fixed by the top guy? Sure. It's quite possible people will look back and see Y1 was just a learning experience. I hope so - and some (but not all IMO) of the decisions since last season seem to point in that direction. But I'm not convinced taking 2 steps back in Y1 will ultimately result in 3 or 4 steps forward by Y3. And in this era of college athletics, I don't believe VT has the luxury of long re-build.
It, i.e, competing for one of the top 2 slots in the ACC, needs to happen by 2024.
#2 is literally a measure of how good the recruits on your team are... Not sure how that's 'lack of coaching'
#4 and #6 show that the current staff was not satisfied with the level of talent on the roster. The fact that such a large percentage of players who left VT went to G5 and FCS schools likely shows that they were not good enough to be on a better roster. Of course, there could be other reasons (eg; an athlete interested in a specific degree, region, etc), but when the trend is this obvious at a macro level, it's tough to come to any conclusion other than most players weren't good enough to play at a school equal to or better than VT.
There four ACC teams with less returning production than VT going into the 2022 season. All of them had more All-ACC players than VT.
UVA had five players across the three levels of all ACC teams despite being the ACC only team with a worse record than us.
Bro, Syracuse had 5 players across all three levels of all ACC teams. The media barely knows that Syracuse exists. I bet you at least half of the voters don't even know the current name of the stadium that Syracuse played the 2022 season in (no, it's not the Carrier Dome anymore),
There were a variety of macro trends, when viewed together (not to mention the comments from the staff before the season even started), paint a clear picture that our roster was severely lacking last year. That doesn't mean that the coaching was perfect. But it also means that it's not that hyperbolic for someone who spends a non-insignificant amount of time scouting and recruiting against VT to call the roster 'talentless'.
Wishful thinking post if there ever was one. A neutral observer would howl at this. But congrats on the likes.
Talent (or lack thereof) was not VT's biggest issue last year. The coaching staff - as a whole from top to bottom - was abysmal last year by almost every measure.
That was not a 3 win team last year on paper...period. If it makes folks feel better by thinking ODO out-talented VT last year, you're deluding yourself.
I think this is a perfectly reasonable take - one can definitely argue that coaching was a bigger problem than talent last year.
But that's not the discussion. The comment that triggered this line of discussion was if it was rationale for an opposing coach to call our roster 'talentless', or if this comment assumed the coach had an ax to grind with VT. I maintain that - regardless of how poor the coaching was - the roster was in a bad spot, and it's not that crazy to call the roster talentless.
The defense wasn't talentless though. Pollard, Kendricks, Garbutt, Dax, Tisdale, Connor, Strong, Peoples all had multiple years starting and played solid for a decent percentage of their career.
The offense you wouldn't really expect to be that bad. Clements, Moore, Dzanzi, and Jordan on the line you expect to be decent (they all played better in '21). Wells has good stats at Marshall, you expect him to be decent. Malachi Thomas was expected to be good. Offense you could say borderline talentless, but expected to be top 80 or 90 at least not sub 110.
Offense being talentless != entire roster
If our offense is just middle of the road (29 ppg as opposed to 19 ppg) we're 7-4 instead of 3-8
The coach providing the quote is talking about the upcoming year (Garbutt, Dax, Connor are gone), and the quote was taken before we had transfer portal commits in positions of need.
Was it hyperbolic? Yea, a bit. Is it unfounded? Not at all.
Not a single player you mentioned would have started on the '16 team which finished the season ranked around 20th. Coaching was bad but that wasn't a P5 roster either.
Downvoted for truth. Roster was bad, it wasn't 3 wins with one of the country's easiest schedules bad. Poor in game coaching, QB miscues, penalties, and bad close game luck got us there
I said this months ago, Fuente wins atleast 5 games with that teams, now his ceiling was 6 and that's not what we want so it's time to fix every thing ground up which is what Pry is trying to do and can be seen in recruiting.
Bar listed factors, when analyzed as whole, yield a picture of team talent. You took each factor to say that individually, that factor isn't indicative of team talent. Faulty analysis.
Overall team talent has never been an outcome of a single factor. But cumulatively, you consider and weigh the factors and see talent was low on that VT team. We're there a handful of talented players? Yes. Was the team as while, top to bottom, talented respective to the ACC, P5, etc? No.
Anybody can list factors which confirm a common narrative on a message board. The youth and the coaching mess last year were bigger issues last year than the lack of inherent talent last year.
Don't be surprised if the "untalented" frosh & sophs of 2022 suddenly look talented in 2024. And, of course, the peanut gallery will confuse it for coaching genius.
I've seen this movie too many times.
Do you think "talent" can be developed?
This is kind of a silly debate. Both can be true. I think it's reasonable to say that our roster was not P5 caliber in 2022. I also think it's fair to say that the coaching was pretty lackluster in 2022.
Players were bad and coaching was bad and the result was bad. No surprises here. Now let's move on.
Isn't that the point of this website, silly debates?
I thought it was to trade recipes, suggest good places to eat at, suggest things to drink, swap dad jokes and Gifs?
Yeah, I guess there is football, baseball, etc. discussions and things like that once in a while too.
I don't think its unreasonable to think that someone as a freshman can a.) play and not look D1 ready or b.) not play because they aren't D1 ready and then by their junior year get developed into someone that can be a major contributor on a D1 roster.
What's your distinction between talent and skill?
I usually think of talent as innate ability whereas skill is what you develop over time. As such, age matters zilch for talent, and only matters for skill as much as the coaching that develops that skill.
I mean, I guess there is potentially some talent gained in aging, in so far as physical maturity usually peaks at around 22-25 years old. That's usually more muscle mass while coordination (and other things like instinct and timing) has developed earlier,
Number of wins has more to do with culture and coaching than talent. The same team basically (except at receiver) had 6 wins the year before
The original point stands... many coaches in the ACC - even ones who aren't salty like Narduzzi - would not hesitate to describe last year's team as 'talentless'.
Hmmm, who benefits from painting a bad picture of VT?
It's amazing how much gaslighting folks will buy into if it creates order out of their disorder. Do people really think the comments these "anonymous" coaches provide are any different than the BS they pump to recruits? That game doesn't pause for some article; if anything it accelerates.
I guarantee you VT is the one of the 2 or 3 sleeping giants (w/ FSU & Miami) which a number of recent success ACC coaches fear will resurrect - and they will use every opportunity to subvert that potential resurrection.
I don't know how you can say "the same team" when any quarterback that had seen a snap at Tech left. And there were lots of other guys that transferred or declared for the draft. Not sure how you get "the same team."
Maybe on defense, but, if I'm not mistaken, we replaced starters at 60% of the OLine, Quarterback, and lost our best receivers (except Smith).
This is simply not true. Beyond losing Turner and Robinson, the starting QB transferred, lost 3/5 starting OL, lost a RB (Blackshear), lost starting TE, and couple of DBs (Waller, Daley).
The team lost a lot of contributors and didn't really have much to replace them with. Most people accepted that the team would take a step back from even being a borderline bowl team because of how badly Fuente recruited at the end. The Pinstripe Bowl was a great example of how little P5 talent there was on the roster.
The pinstripe bowl was meaningless. The team wearing VT uniforms that day was reflective of neither the 21 nor 22 roster. It was basically a maroon spring game roster.
The O line - probably the most important component of any FB team besides the QB - was fairly unchanged and performed much worse in 22 than in 21. Yet another sign the biggest issue was with the coaching mess not the players or the lack of talent.
This is just not true. We lost 3 of 5 starting OL from the 2021 team (Lecitus Smith, Brock Hoffman, Luke Tenuta) to the 2022 team. Sure, the 2022 team had a few transfers in, but a good portion of the 2022 roster was on the Pinstripe Bowl team. It was an indicator of the talent Pry was working with.
Yes, the coaching left a lot to be desired, but the talent level on the 2022 team was also really low.
Talent is obviously a relative term in this scenario as any D1 Football player has more athletic talent than 95% of the rest of the population.
But in terms of P5 talent, we were way short and combined that with severe lack of depth at multiple positions.
Most of the competent P5 teams handled us and the G5 teams looked pretty indistinguishable in terms of athletes.
That can't happen at this level and the on-field results speak for themselves. So while blunt and unkind I think this assessment is more correct than not.
If you're not a blue blood, you can't evaluate roster talent with a one season snapshot.
But you can definitively evaluate coaching?
Yes, you can actually. And it happens all of the time. With ADs, fans and donors. There's a reason for the old saying that every coach is potentially just 2 seasons (or less) from getting fired.
And did I not say (somewhere, anyway) that I'm not closing the door on the coaching? In fact, I'm one of the slowest to want the trigger pulled on a coach(s). But platitudes aside, the actual coaching (on and off) in 2022 was a dumpster fire.
Evaluating roster talent is a much different proposition. If it was so easy, then individual recruiting ratings would be far more accurate, no? And college coaches (who should know more than anyone about talent and system fit) wouldn't have such a high total miss rate.
The two really go hand in hand quite a bit, don't they?
What are you talking about? Recruiting rankings are insanely accurate. So much so that it's made it impossible for VT to recruit 'diamonds in the rough' at scale. So much so, that of 130+ teams, you can identify the 16ish teams that have a shot at winning a natty by looking purely at recruiting rankings. Sure, the rankings aren't perfect, but they're very very good.
Say what? Individual rankings are insanely inaccurate particularly once you get psst the top 50 or 100..
Just look at the top 10 or 15 in the state in, say, 2017 and then look at how those players college careers panned out. The significant contributor percentage is amazingly low - almost to the point of random outcomes.
The 10th to 15th in the state probably aren't in the top 300 in the country, especially in a given year. According to 247, only the top 6 in VA were in the top 300 nationally in '23. In '22, the top 11 in VA were in the top 300, and Givens was in there, but too early to tell if he is a bust or not.
In '17, the top 11 were in the top 300 nationally. We had Devon Hunter, Dylan Rivers, and Tyjuan Garbutt. Who knows what Hunter COULD have done (with being arrested, then a season ending knee injury in '21 that also ended his career). And Garbutt was a good producer for us. Rivers was injured a lot and retired due to a neck injury, but was fairly productive his sophomore year.
In '18, only the top 4 in the state were in the top 300, and we didn't have any of them. In '19, only the top 9 in the state were in the top 300, and the one we had was Payoute. Payoute injured his ankle and eventually took a medical disqualification, so can't make a judgement on him really. In '20, only the top 8 were in the top 300 nationally, and we didn't have any of them. In '21, only the top 7 were in the top 300 nationally, and we didn't have any of them either.
So, basically, not sure you can say that the 10th to 15th players in the state are usually out of the top 300, and as such probably aren't expected to have an impact on a P5 team anyway.
It's a macro vs micro issue. At aggregate, the rankings are pretty accurate.
At the individual level, you have to treat them as a likelihood of success. If you look at the 247 methodology, you'll see the phrase 'more likely' a lot.
Obviously, coaches should not (and don't) blindly chase stars. BUT you can look at a roster and figure out what the roster's ceiling is just by looking at recruiting rankings.
For what it's worth, in the future it's "not really recruiting related" it shouldn't just get thrown into the recruiting thread
One more big 757 recruit to go😤
Bring it on!
Apologies if that is not a 757. I can't tell.
In a 757 only has one aisle and you turn left to get to first class
Ari Watford?
For 2024😂
Tech has had a defensive identity since Dooley. Pry is killing it on that side of the ball. If we can go back to top 20 defenses and mediocre offenses, I will be ecstatic.
By "killing it", do you mean killing the identity or re-establishing the identity? IMO, last year was more evidence of the former than the latter.
Hopefully acting like the head coach rather than the defensive coordinator/media face of the program will change that.
Your commitment to ongoing debbie downer status is impressive.
He could save a lot of time by just copy/pasting "I don't like our coaches" for every comment because that's really his only point.
I mean downvotes are pretty unnecessary, the offensive staff has proven literally nothing in terms of coaching, and the whole staff hasn't had time to prove whether they are good evaluators or developers of talent. Our limited sample size seems negative so far but we'll need two more seasons to get a better picture
Marc's comment had nothing to do with the offensive staff.
Not directly, but the implication was it was an overall top-down mess in 2022. I just used the whole DC disaster as an example. But I think the coaching staff made the least of a not great, but not as bad as painted, inherited situation.
Can it still work out in the long run? Sure. I hope it does. But I just think throwing away a year may have been a smart approach 10 or 20 years ago, but not in this era of college athletics (Conf wars/TV money, NIL, etc). You just don't have that kind of time any more.
And the same folks downvoting now will be the first ones enthusiastically upvoting every critical narrative by year 3 if it doesn't turn around.
Nah, I personally feel that the downvotes come from what should be a positive time in a recruiting thread, which seems to be doing good. And the general consensus of the reply's by yourself are a buzzkill.
Don't think too hard on the votes, I just think most folks want to ride the fun wave and not have the barrel of it crash down on them. I mean it is fans supporting a common team still.
I couldn't care less about the votes. I just find the hypocrisy in them depending upon the currently approved consensus narrative to be highly amusing.
Was it throwing away a year or was it maybe a first time head coach learning how to be a P5 head coach? I agree in that I was underwhelmed by a lot of the on-field performance last year. Some of that was clearly talent-related and some I don't think was.
But I think that we had to expect a learning curve of some sort because frankly if a canned, perfect head coach existed they wouldn't be coming to Blacksburg. So whoever Tech gets will need to take some lumps. The test will be not making the same mistakes over again.
It's not 1993. Pry isn't going to get 5 years to turn this around. The fan base - led by the most emotional of the fan base on message boards like this - will turn quickly on him before that if he doesn't make drastic improvements and quickly. A potentially decent 2024 recruiting class won't even bear significant fruit until '25 (Pry's 4th season) at the earliest. A 3-8 VT neither puts VT in a position to drive the discussion on now uneven ACC dollars nor provide leverage with, say, permanent rivalry scheduling - so VT is stuck for the indefinite future with Wake Forest and Pitt. And it certainly doesn't help with a potential razor's edge decision for membership by the B1G or the SEC leaning VT's way.
It's a dangerous time for VT athletics right now. So yes, particularly when most experienced players on the roster regressed in '22 and it was the worst record (by a nice margin) in 30 years, the 2022 season was thrown away IMO.
I don't think any of that is inaccurate, but it more speaks to the overall state of the program. i think could argue that by not firing Fuente earlier, VT threw away a year or two, but I'm not sure what part of last year was just punting on an entire season. Lincoln Riley and Caleb Williams were not walking through that door
. The 2022 Hokies definitely should've won a few more games, but I don't think making it to Bad Boy Mowers Gasparilla bowl in Pry's first year was a necessity to save the program
I don't think the coaching staff made a decision to "throw the year away". They just weren't ready for prime time unfortunately. We'll see whether they've learned enough to bounce back in the fall.
Also, I can't speak for others, but I don't downvote people for having a critical opinion. I downvote people for being a prick about it.
I don't know. I'm not sure whether it was conscious decision or not. I suspect it was part-conscious decision and part "not-ready for prime time".
But either way, nobody at this time a year ago was saying "Oooh, I wish VT had the pieces Elko's got to work with at Duke!" Nobody. And sure Elko could fall flat on his face going forward and Pry could rope-a-dope his way past Elko. But given a choice, I'd sure as hell rather be working with the foundation Elko laid (and quickly) right now. And then imagine it with VT's football resources and culture.
I meant pry is doing a good job recruiting. Hopefully he will establish himself as a good coach in game this year. Very happy to see the changes in our team
15 downvotes for this? What is going on?
We don't downvote opinions. Even if they are negative.
Agreed, what a bunch of babies.
I took no offense to Marc. No worries here. I am a big boy and can take it
I strongly disagree with you that the defense last year was less lunchpail in nature than the Justin Hamilton frankendefense we saw for a couple years.
Last years defense was some of the best defense we have seen in a bit. They just didn't have any depth and got gassed by the end of the game.
Dax looked like he was finally playing like he was always supposed to play.
There was certainly some of that. But neither unit operated in a vacuum. Each of their flaws hurt the other at critical times.
However I also think the defense was fairly rudderless last year - I don't think it looked much more cohesive at the end of the season than it did early in the season. I don't think many teams on the schedule thought they couldn't run and pass on the D when needed - let alone run or pass.
I wasn't crazy about the Marve hire for several reasons - including what got played out last year with Pry. In hindsight, Pry would have probably served himself much better by spending $$ on a more seasoned DC rather than Rudolph. But that horse is out of the barn. I'm still not sure Marve's the right guy, but at least it now appears (at least a half a season too late IMO) he'll get the opportunity to sink or swim on his own.
I'm not expecting miracles from effectively a Y1 DC. Hell, I thought JHam actually made really good strides in '21 (which was almost his Y1 given the covid mess of '20). I'd be happy to just see a more consistently cohesive D unit with more playmaking (which was severely lacking last year) and which improves as the year progresses.
If by ecstatic, you meant "spending the majority of my time agonizing and overanalyzing about why the offense can't match the defense's performances ", then I'll be right there with you, buddy.
Exciting times brewing in Blacksburg. We have to build from this momentum in season now.
Ryan "Mountain" Howerton
Class of 24
6'4, 295 lbs OT
3 🌟 88 Rating
ON3 has him as a Pitt lean
HUDL PROFILE
Was really hoping we could land him after we lost Mo Schmo to Pitt. What other OL prospect* do we have lined up for '24?
edit: prospect not price spectra lol - thanks GGC
Dj toliver is one price spectra (prospect?????) we're after
Web Davidson. 6'6 290 from GA. Has offers from Arkansas and Michigan state
"Mountain" is a great nickname for an offensive lineman. Just like that one guy who was "Moose". Hope we can bring him in with some good BBQ.
The view over Blacksburg in 2025:
His other p5 offer is duke, unrated on all services
If he picks ODU or JMU over VT or Yale, we definitely don't want him!
Is that a typo - If he picks VT we don't want him?
Sorry, fixed!
Can we trademark the term "HOME" so recruits can only use it if they are telling us in code that they're committing to Tech? That would do my nerves wonders...
Like how OSU trademarked "THE" lol?
FTFY
OT but didn't know where else to put this. I believe someone had previously mentioned that Pry and staff have been really hammering our homefield experience including the walk from locker room and the run out of the tunnel.
I would love to see us strap a 360 camera on somebody during a night game this year to record the full experience so that we could show it to recruits at The Cube on campus.
Good idea;, simple, cost effective and probably will have a positive impact.
Need to email it in.
Love how this class is creating itself.
There is a great Chanz that they catch some fish on that trip
Anyone know what time frame?
Couple days.
Thanks by the tweet I thought he meant today but didn't see anything yet
Wiggins is set to announce today. Doesn't seem like there is a specified time. His primary recruiter is Quinn. Secondary is Mines.
for our commits, to-date, the primary secondary breakdown may be a surprise to some.
Brooks: primary on 1. Secondary on 2.
Jones: primary on 2.
Quinn: secondary on 1
Price: primary on 3. Secondary on 1.
Mines: primary on 1, secondary on 1.
Holt: primary on 2.
Bowen: primary on 1.
Crook: primary on 2.
Prioleau: primary on 1. Secondary on 1.
Price is killing it
To be brand new, so are Crook and Brooks
Crook and Brooks sound so much like a country music duo to me.
Or a law firm
The law firm of Wie, Cheatham and Howe!
Oh sorry, the dad jokes thread is over there.
I miss Car Talk.
My Russian chauffer Pickup Andropov
My Latina Mother in law Estella Painen-Diaz
It helps when the man believes in the place he is recruiting for. "That's my school. This is home. "
Just got a CB to the good guys from InsideMDSports, Wes Brown.
High Noon now
Are there good vibes for this one?
Got Heem
Feels good
Anyone have an up to date target board there's been a lot of movement in the past couple weeks and I've lost track of who we're in contention with.
All the croots
Adams next Thursday. I think he's the only target with a commitment date announced for a little bit
He's SCAR bound though, right?
Ehhh I don't think so
Tech is the only one that has gotten a national analyst prediction from any of the sites
Holy shit, if we can land Adams I'm going to feel way more optimistic about the future of our program than I probably should. I've been super happy with the talent we were able to land so far this cycle, but the headliners have been on Defense (except for Davi who the services keep dogging). Would be really excited to see us land some high end talent on the offense to compliment the defense.
Interested to see what's going to happen with Rainer. Rumors of a flip after his visit, and we have other 'croots trying to get him.
That's 4 recruits rated as 4* by at least one national recruiting service, and 2 x Top 5 VA recruits
According to which service?
Wiggins is number five according to rivals.
Johnson is number one according to on3
If we happen to land Adams, that will be three consensus top 10
If both services have all three ranked in the top 10 in the state, then I would agree with using the word "consensus". Otherwise, it's just cherry picking. Regardless, I'm stoked about the commitments and hope the train keeps rolling!
Pretty sure they are all consensus top 10. He was just saying which services had recruits were.
Might have meant composite
With the Wiggins commit, the 247 rankings have us at 34th, but our average is 87.95. By comparison, On3 has us ranked 29tg with an average of 87.48. Pry and the staff have done a helluva job of raising the floor of talent on the team as far as rankings go.
On3 loves them some Gabriel Williams. They have him as #8LB in the nation. Well above Chris Cole.
You know what I would love. If both of them were Hokies. That would be a killer LB duo for a couple years
Hall/Adibi part 2?
Cole/Williams, has a nice ring to it
Let's Fucking Go!
Jason Stamm just put in a prediction to Keylen Adams to Tech on rivals 👀
I read that as Jason Statham and really you should do what that man tells you, so it's actually not as strong of an endorsement cause I doubt many people worry about upsetting Jason Stamm.
Stopped following recruiting three years ago but y'all have me excited to see what's happening.
Read my latest (mostly: recruiting-centric) article... it is -per always- FREE.
There are some signs here; and not all of 'em are that bad.
💯
HTH's
b.street
Got a link?
Yes Sir.
https://bourbonstreet.sportswar.com/tech-thoughts-war-plan-orange/
enjoy!
b.street
Bstreet - can you please just use plain English? I cant follow nor finish reading any of your articles. You probably have good content.... But few can understand it
I feel like I just read the ramblings of a schizophrenic who had a stroke.
Translation costs $4.95.
;^)
You aren't joking. Might require more than that.
I thought it was just me.
Maybe I'm just old, but that was unreadable for me. Gave up about a quarter of the way in. Sorry dude, but you lost me. Thanks for sharing though.
You're not alone. I assume he has valuable insights, but I can't (and generally won't) take the time necessary to decipher his jibberish.
I have no problem with B.Street but I don't read any of his stuff because he makes things unnecessarily difficult to read. I just don't have the time or patience.
I am baffled that it gets published. I have no idea who this would appeal to? He creates his own language and communicates with....himself?
TSL is a weird website. Was sad to see AB go there. Also didn't think self promotion of other website was ok here anyway.
In his defense, he didn't post a link to his own article originally. I asked for it. That's my bad if that crossed community guidelines.
I don't see anything wrong with. Providing a link to non-paywalled content has traditionally been fine. If there's something relevant to the community on TSL and it's open, I don't think there's an issue, especially if it is response to a request for relevant information.
Personally I think TSL is great and they had model staff and business way before AB got there. Don't understand they hate, they're generally much more plugged in than the critics are
Most of the writers are fine the site itself is trash. The message boards are a mess, the site information page has code instead of lists in some places like on the site.
Just one example right on front page.
Yeah. The site is rough. And I'm not even sure what games Chris Coleman is watching sometimes. His takeaways about certain units are just awful.
The podcasts are solid.
Their proximity to the program prevents them from being overly critical imo. They couldn't even bring themselves to be critical of the last staff when the writing was smeared in shit on the wall the they were done. Lastly I think CC puts way to much stock into PFF/metrics and less into on field results
chat GPT does a decent job for free lol
I asked it to write the article about virginia tech football in a more formal tone. (first paragraph only)
Rarely do we witness Virginia Tech's men's football team engage in physicality on the field. This lack of aggression is concerning, considering their skepticism towards the power of physicality. In a politically correct context, it is clear that the team needs to adopt a more aggressive approach. The All-Charmin Conference, as some may call it, lacks the hard-hitting nature of the Big-10 football. This is precisely why former coach Frankie found success in 2004, as his team was accustomed to the confrontational playstyle of the Big East. However, current coach Pryimetime seemed to abandon this aggressive approach during the 2022 season, opting for a more finesse style of play. Interestingly, the team started performing better once they adopted this approach, which poses a dilemma for Pryimetime. He now faces a recruiting and programming challenge in order to rebuild the team's physicality and toughness.
So, what, should we all start using the term PrymeTime? I kinda like it.
I can think of at least one person who would take issue with this LOL
Except his was PrimeTime, not with the "y". Does it make it better if we spell it PrymeTyme?
PrymeThyme?
Now you're cooking with some spice
Yeah, and Ice Ice Baby has that extra "dun" note that makes it different from Under Pressure.
Excellent work and I agree!
Any time.
: )
b.street
Found the b street burner
Assuming this is nothing for us. A buddy shared it with me from "outkick" and said "we lost out to liberty...". Side note he doesn't follow recruiting that much.
However I mentioned that Pry is actually doing really well at the moment recruiting and perhaps it was bc we already have Belfort in the class and some other QBs on roster.
Didn't see any mention of him on here so don't think it was a big loss. Also has offers from USCe, PSU, App St.
This is what bothers me so much about recruiting. You really have to follow it pretty heavily and have a strong understanding how the game works in order to have a good assessment of how a class is shaping up. You'll have recruits list tons of noncommitable offers or schools that may have completely cooled on them, and it looks like they got beat out by a lesser school to someone who doesn't really follow things closely. Had a UVA fan I know who basically just follows what the local papers and national media stories say who told me the other day Pry won't last long at VT. I had to lol because he doesn't follow recruiting and I told him we are really starting to get momentum in the state while UVA recruiting is horrific to say the least.
I almost just don't even talk about college football anymore because the degree of understanding can vary so wildly depending on how closely you follow the sport and what sources you read.
Yeah We pick up Adams next Thursday and that would be our 4th 4 star and We'll have a recruiting average of over 88.00 while Uva is sitting over there with a recruiting average of 85.5😂
If we grab Adams and then have a decent season, and convince Cole to come in.....whew...that would be an epic get for Pry if he could get Cole in the boat. Everything I understand though is he is probably waiting at least until early signing day if not feb.
Yeah I'd rather have Pry over Tony Elliot any day of the week
Y'all remember the speculation that we had a deal lined up with "Tony the Tiger" around the time of the infamous Whit press conference? That was a wild time. Too early to tell on either Pry or Elliot right now, but early signs have me really glad it's Pry.
Is turning Brennan Armstrong from potential mid round pick in a weak class to Grad transfer bad?
Obviously a long way to go and ultimately both could be clunkers, but that's not a good start for Elliot
The butchering of Brennan Armstrong is mind boggling to me.
Going into 2022, I legit thought UVA was going to be better than us, and it was because I figured that Armstrong could carry that team. He's one of very few UVA players who I wish were in maroon and orange. I also assumed that Elliott, being an offensive guy, could field a mildly competent offense. I never thought Elliott was an offensive genius by any stretch, but I thought he was at least capable.
Anyways, I think NC State is a dark horse to make the ACCCG, and it's all because Anae/Armstrong are reuniting.
I put a little bit of money (not much) on NCST ACC champs
They avoid FSU, so its possible. Miami and UNC visit Raleigh. Schedule is doable
Syracuse offense from last year/UVA offense two years ago with better talent and traditional Wolfpack defense = definitely a dark horse
That is NOT Tony Elliot's offense. It's Des Ketching's offense. That dude laid an egg for one year at NC State too.
He was never qualified to take over the offense for State either. In completely over his head. He also shared title and play calling with George McDonald so never had full control of an offense before getting hired
I mean, I figured TE had the knowledge to identify offensive coaching talent (like Pry identified defensive coaching talent)
well, this just doesn't compute..
how could you watch as Justin Fuente (arguably a top notch OC in his own right) gets a HC gig and then hires, of all people, Brad F***ing Cornelsen as OC and then just blindly expect some ostensibly-top-shelf OC to be able to identify good offensive coaching talent in his first HC gig?
I think Elliott is going to be an epic disaster for UVA. They have no momentum whatsoever in any regard with their program. I could seriously see them considering moving on with an abysmal season this year and think it's highly likely he's gone after three years if they don't get anything going. Pry has a lot still to prove on the field, but our staff has us positioned well with a ton of momentum just as they laid out with recruiting and overall running the program. We just need some wins.
I was never impressed with Elliott as an OC, when things started to get bad they just ran their QB. With the QBs they've had, why are you running them? They've should be able to make great passes. The recievers should be getting open. It just seemed like they didn't know how to call and execute plays without the QB run threat.
He recruited well for his alma mater, and in a state he has spent his entire career.
Pry on the other hand was a very good DC. He recruited well in VA. He worked at VT previously at the best time possible, during the build. If Marve can keep up what he showed at Liberty and the offense can get better, Pry is going to be here a while. He has shown that the work he did with the high schools when he came is paying off. Crooks was a good replacement hire as he is recruiting well and has bee a good coach for many years, brooks is recruiting well. The only thing Pry has left to show is 1) winning and 2) letting go poorly performing staff. I would love to never have to see the 2nd. But if he can do this things he will be the HC for a long time.
This was definitely Fuente's big downfall. I also hope Pry can do this if it is necessary. It is one of the hardest things to do, though, which is why I think many coaches struggle with it.
Part of letting go of underperforming staff is identifying that they are underperforming in the first place.
With that in mind, it will be interesting to see how much leash Bowen and the other offensive coaches get. From a fan's perspective they underperformed last year. Will they be gone if they do so again in 2023? Will they get three years regardless? How is Pry even measuring their performance?
There's just so much we don't know. I'm a pretty firm believer that three full seasons provides enough data to predict whether a head coach is going in the right direction or not. Is that the same for coordinators? Maybe.
It's no secret that I wasn't very excited about the Bowen hire. He may be great. Or not. We just don't know. I think it was a mistake bringing in someone with such a relatively low amount of experience. As a first time HC with a background in defense, I would want a veteran to help with the offense. But that's just me. Hopefully I'm wrong and Bowen works out. I just think it's a big risk for Pry.
Combined with terrible recruiting strategy and results.
Have to set targets at the beginning of the season and provide yearly evaluations (and midterm evaluations). You do that, it's pretty easy to know who is underperforming to the standards set. If you don't, there's no accountability and no knowing where every individual stands.
Pry seems like he is the type of guy to do that. Whether or not he fires for underperformance is another question.
I hate the yearly and mid term evaluation, it make no sense. Feedback should be more often. If you wait 6 months to talk about an issue then either 1) you're a shitty manager to let something go for 6 months or 2) it wasn't a big deal so you're a shitty manager for bringing it back up when it was actually fine.
All coaches should know the expectations and should easily know if they are meeting them otherwise they expectations aren't clear. If that is the case then the issue is at the top.
I agree that Pry seems like a guy that is clear on his expectations.
Agree. I wasn't merely suggesting only two evaluations, but as many as appropriate both fixed and as-necessary. I think for football coaches, there's football season and recruiting, and overall annual evaluations.
But it's really about the establishment of realistic and beyond goals and holding accountability for meeting/exceeding those goals along the way and at the end. If the coaches (with Pry) don't set serious goals on multiple levels, then the only evaluation is post-facto, and heavily biased based on the outcome and not the process.
That was more of an overall rant because I see this happen all the time with employees getting blindsided at reviews.
Though there is no such thing as recruiting season Always Be Closing!
Regarding Bowen, I thought the point of hiring guys below Bowen who were very experienced was to let Bowen communicate the vision, and have the experienced guys implement it.
I think the challenge last year, since we've discussed the departures from 21 to 22 on offense and near total lack of talent, I still feel like the offensive staff was trying to find something, ANYTHING that our offense could do well and consistently. Our 2 good RBs were banged up and had a less than stellar line, and having one good receiver is sub-optimal. Yes, the offense was bad, but they didn't have a lot to work with.
Plus, Pry had said they were evaluating guys (before last season) to see about what changes they could make to get the best players on the field. Most of the pre-season the coaches were probably taking time that would usually be used for position coaching to see what other positions our 10 RBs could play, who could catch a ball, and who our starting line could be, etc.
I know fans WANT their team to be successful, but I don't know what we as fans had to rely on in terms of anticipating any sort of anything that would vaguely resemble success on last year's offense. We had one receiver, one RB (behind 40% of our OLine), two transfers at QB that had to PT with anyone on O. That ain't much to work with.
VT has not had an OC since Stiney had Tyrod, Wilson and Williams and put together an off tackle run scheme similar to the Gibbs Redskins that also took some shots downfield. THAT was the last offense that was tailored to the personnel that I can recall. Fu had a chance with Herbert etc but couldn't coordinate a redzone offense. I'd love to see Bowen actually coordinate an offense to his personnel - Rare the past 25 years at VT. If he does that, we will improve. Included in that of course is an offense that is less prone to false starts, delays, etc- execution of the basics and the scheme around the guys you have.
imo the one-read-and-run, fade-heavy offense we had in 2016 with Jerod Evans under Fuente/Corny was pretty tailored to the personnel we had. Isaiah Ford, Cam Phillips, and Bucky Hodges all had their strengths and Evans had his, and we stayed within that. Even McMillian had an efficient year even though his usage was down.
I'm pretty sure any offense would have worked with those players, they were some of the best we've ever had so maybe not quite tailored to their skils.
Tailoring an offense to your players is great, if you have certain guys that have specific strengths. If you have a bunch of guys who are sub-par in their abilities, what do you do with that? I mean, what kind of offense do you tailor to a team with a weak OLine, receivers (other than one) that can't reliably catch, and RBs who are good, but banged up, so you don't know for sure if you will have game-to-game?
In terms of the 2022 Hokies, teaching them to stay onsides and get the snap off in the alloted time would have saved many drives- no exaggeration. So even if you have young/lower skilled players- come up with snap counts and motions they understand and can execute- which we didn't do last year. We don't play any place but Clemson where we need a silent NFL count type system. Simple things we don't execute are very frustrating
What does that have to do with the point you were making, that I countered, in terms of catering your coaching to the players you have? You went off on basic coaching in this one, which has zero to do with the point I was countering. Not coaching basics (that got better over the season), is a lot different than not catering an offense to the players you have (which to me means you come up with specific plays that account for the strengths and weaknesses of the players you have). Do you have thoughts on catering an offense to a team that has VERY few playmakers?
Bro they are college athletes. Arguing that they suck at EVERYTHING is patently false.
If you aren't able to look at your team and come up an offense that suits the few skills they do have then that is a problem.
Okay, without expounding a lot, a college football player at Southwest Rhode Island A&M probably isn't going to have the same skill and talent as P5 players. They are still are college football players, but your point would seem to suggest that just because they are a college athlete means they are exceptional at some things? We had a lot of guys transfer to G5 schools. So yeah, maybe we can find some plays they can run, but will they be effective against P5 defenses? Probably not.
So my point is that the coaches don't just look at what the guys are good at, it's finding something that they can be effective at. For example, we have guys that would be a decent run game in G5, but we face some of the best run defenses in the P5, you gotta try to get your guys to do something other than just running.
My point was that you pointed out "lower skilled players"- well that shows up in execution too- 5 star OLs don't false start as much as walk ons. - in general. So Bowen- knowing he doesn't have the Urban Meyer florida prime offensive players, should teach basics accordingly
Fuente suffered from Jon Gruden disease. He thought he could "coach up" any player on offense- so he didn't emphasize actually recruiting good offensive players in HS. Beamer was guilty of that too for a time, until he realized that you need actual HS WRs to be good college WRs- not just "athletes"
It's almost like being a "QB Whisperer" doesn't translate to being a good Head Coach (at least not in VA). Turns out, you need to be a "Entire Football Team Whisperer" for continued success.
I am am not sure enough people care about LOL football to fire a coach in the near future. Bronco walking away was a real gut punch to the few who cared. Elliott would have be worse than the Time Cop bad to get fired. But you did predict an Epic Disaster, so I assume you are predicting worse.....
I don't think the Bronco would have taken them to national relevance but I think he would had them a perennial bowl team.
I bet they give Elliot 4 years and if they do not see improvements, he will be gone.
Bronco is a good coach, he did some really nice things at UVA. I'm glad he's gone because he's the best coach they've had in 20+ years
Kind of like politics
Made the top 8 for Chris Cole, would be massive
Don't want to get my hopes up but damn what can we do to beat out these blue bloods and close him?
Well, if you want to get your hopes up, read this, but pretend it's VT/Cole.
$750k/yr NIL. Spoiler alert, only the blue bloods can provide that.
Where are you pulling this number from? On3 estimates his NIL at $98k.
If what I've been told is accurate, we have this capability.
I think it was meant to be a joke about how much more some programs can offer and to not take the specific number seriously. But, I could be wrong.
He's so obviously going to the big dogs (VT)
#NoSauces
Would definitely be massive, but this is an uphill battle for VT imo. He's from Salem, and I can't blame a kid for wanting to get farther away from home than Blacksburg. There are pros and cons either way, but being THAT close to VT may be something that hurts us. Time will tell. I agree it would be a massive coup for Pry to pull him in against that competition.
Yep, I grew up in Chesapeake, and there was one big reason that ODU was my fallback plan, wanted to get some miles between me and home for college
Very similar situation. When it became clear that Georgetown was gonna be outta my price range even with a ROTC scholarship, I could've gotten auto-admission to A&M or t.u. Being a normal 17 year old, I wanted to get the hell away from my parents and do my own thing, so I did Early Decision for Tech.
I think proximity to home, or at least ease of travel, is a much bigger factor for getting the families to buy in than it is for the kids.
Same here, once I realized I wasn't getting into the Air Force Academy, I went early decision VT all the way. I'm from Springfield, VA and the one school that never remotely crossed my mind was George Mason.
Grew up in Richmond; only applied to (and got into all of them) four schools. (Three if I wanted a military route, one if I didn't)
1) USAF Academy(got the nomination and passed the fitness test(one of only 6 of the 45 I took it with that passed it), and the flight physical....but ultimately wasn't ready to make a 9 year commitment at age 18(4 years of school, year of flight school, and 4 years minimum service) at age 18)- I do often think of the timing and where the road not taken would have led me(Desert Storm. Bosnia/Balkans. Iraqi freedom, Afghanistan, etc.)
2) William and Mary- Tough academic school with ROTC program-but the(rumored or not) high suicide rate among students turned me off(hey 18 year olds aren't always rational in their choices :) )
3) Duke- dad's alma mater- great academics-nice campus but just didn't "feel right"-also very pricey
4) Virginia Tech- two older sisters attending already- in state but not "too close to home- can visit but not a place where parents would just "pop in"- great engineering school, decent business school; better football team than UVA and much fewer snobs! Never regretted choosing it- didn't know what I wanted to do when I grew up (still don't at age 58 for that matter lol)-. Started in engineering cause it was "hardest to get into" and could "drop down" if I didn't like it. After two years, decided it wasn't for me; switched to business school(Accounting -same logic as engineering)- after 1 quarter decided "hell no this is BORING" and looked for major with least additional classes required to finish which ended up being Management. Finished in total of 5 years with never mre than 15 credit hours in any quarter (and senior year was 12, 9, and 6 hours-te spring quarter being Public Speaking and some PASS/FAIL class I ended up blowing off. Outside of professions
(like medicine/law,architecture/engineering), most folks don't get jobs directly in their major anyway.
Also in-state which at that time (1983-88) ranged from $3300-4800/ year in TOTAL costs(a good livable salary for a family at that time after graduation was $30,000-40,000)- way less than many places and since I was 6th of 7 kids and my parents didn't pay for our college- it was by far my best choice (given what i said about the AFA above).
By contrast, my nephew (who's mom was the helicopter/tiger mom type parent)went to Randolph Macon in Ashland as a dorm student despite living just 8 minutes away in /Glen Allen- why bother going to the dorm if you're gonna be THAT close??
Not sure if it's still true but when I did my year of
partyingschool at RMC all students except for staff kids were required to live in college owned housing (dorms, fraternities or sororities, honors house, international house). This was 02-03 so might have changed.My parents got a compass and drew a circle on the map and told my sister she go anywhere with a full ride, but that circle was her radius if she wanted my parent help.
Then they drew a smaller circle for me after my sisters 2nd place (front runner to the last second) was 8 hours to W&M. But luckily tech was only 30 minutes from my grandparents so they couldn't complain that much.
That's a main reason Peyton Lewis picked Tennessee
If we fail to land Cole (or even if we do land him), Pry is already working on flipping Fred Johnson from eUSC.
Growing up in Blacksburg, this is exactly why I never looked once at VT.
Agreed. Grew up in Blacksburg, needed somewhere else to be after high school. Beard, what year did you graduate? I was '95
2010 aka the year the gym collapsed
I was at the High School on Main St, before it moved to Patrick Henry Drive. Crowded!
Ha, my high school had a fire the year after I graduated. We were supposed to go recruit for the VTCC over Christmas break and I told them I couldn't because my school burned down. Not sure my upperclassmen believed me but they didn't push it.
I grew up in Blacksburg as well, went to Tech, but always wondered what kind of emotional and intellectual maturing I might have missed by not leaving Home.
I get that. I didn't go far (Harrisonburg) but it was just far enough to feel like I was really out on my own and could make my mark somewhere everybody didn't already know my name. Which was exactly what I wanted.
Also, I could not wait to get out of Bburg when I was 18 and 19. I thought if I spent one more year there, I was going to go insane, haha. Common teenage feelings.
I lived in Roanoke when I came to Tech. My dad would come to Blacksburg on business every other Tuesday. The weekend before he came up, I'd go home with my laundry and mom would wash it. Dad would then bring it back to me on Tuesday.
Being 30 minutes from home certainly had advantages.
I had friends at WVU that would go home on weekends too study and do laundry cause it was easy for them
Wiltfong with a VT Crystal ball for 4-star WR Keylen Adams who makes his selection this week.
Brian Dohn too, they basically posted them at the same time
The Fong and Dohn connection 😂
Thursday to be specific, CBs now are a good sign
According to On3 Hokies has a 93.1% chance of landing Keylen Adams. Yesterday it was at 72% for South Carolina
I don't mind us fans being in the "know" some more with these predictions nowadays, but seems like it takes away from the kids moment at the same time. I'd be pumped to get Adam on board, just want the kids to get to enjoy the entirety of being a kid in the process.
Agree but they get to enjoy quite a process these days
True. Just different overall. I've never been in the process so I'd never understand honestly.
Any Northwestern recruits we want? Too soon? I'm just gonna go, sorry folks.
For what it's worth, I had thought the same thing yesterday. Nothing wrong with that. It's not like we are glad or celebrating that stuff happened. But if no one on the coaching staff is at least thinking about it, they are not doing their job. You work at Company A and Company B, which is in the same industry as you are, implodes, of course you look to see if there are people looking to leave that you might want to pursue. This situation is the same.
I'm excited about Emmett Laws for many reasons but he definitely reminds me of a younger me.
This is bananas. But just wondering, would all these reps count at a competition?
I would think not. He was definitely bouncing that bar off of his chest.
Definitely would not. In addition to the bouncing, competition lifting has pretty strict rules on closing out reps. Basically pausing at the top of your reps.
Taking nothing away from Emmet Laws, competitive lifting is almost an entirely separate entity from athletic weight training. And 26 reps at 225 for a high schooler is bonkers.
Aaron Donald comps confirmed.
🤣🤣🤣 on a serious note he's a superb recruiter for the Hokies.
I've been loving him messing with Torrey Smith, are they actually related?
Uncle I think? He has been posting pics of them on his boat and all kinds of stuff together.
I don't think they are family related, but they have a 7v7 coach/player and mentor/mentee relationship.
OT7 Tournament
Another Keylen Adams crystal ball for VT, this time by JC Shurburtt the south carolina insider
A high confidence one at that. If I win the lottery, I'm giving 50% of it to Fontel Mines.
Screenshot a buddy sent to me from a South Carolina 247 board:
There's a reason Sports Biz Journal said Triumph was a 'power player'... We might not be top 10 highest paying (I honestly don't know), but they wouldn't mention Triumph if they/we (can we say 'we' when talking about a VT collective?) were broke.
My passion and support for what is essentially now professional football in VT jerseys is waning by the minute.
That was my initial feeling once NIL started, but honestly I've turned completely around on it after thinking about it. The fact is, the whole "student-athlete" concept was created by the NCAA in order to justify schools and themselves making millions off of the players and not having to pay them. There has always been under the table paying of players at the top level, it is not new. Now it is just out in the open. I think once you transition away from the old student-athlete mindset and to the idea of FBS athletics being minor league teams owned and operated by the universities, it starts to make more sense to me.
Now the current iteration of it I agree is flawed and needs to be fixed (namely the NCAA rule that NIL can't be used as inducement for committing - LOL that's precisely what it is being used as). We really need true revenue sharing, collective bargaining, and regulated contracts for players. But I like the model Pry is building - we dont want NIL to be the sole reason players come here, we want them to want to be a part of VT. But we also realize we have to be competitive with NIL too, and I think we are doing just that.
1. Making millions and turning millions in "profit" are two very different things. VT's football revenue has never been some huge surplus after expenses. 2. Hopefully in our lifetime, VT football will perhaps win the ACC again and maybe make the playoffs. GREAT!! until kickoff and we are playing a team that pays twice the NIL we do and we get wiped out. wash, rinse, repeat with mens basketball too.
I just say let the market drive it. If boosters want to raise funds and pay coaches insane sums of money, why can't they do the same and pay the players who are actually providing the product on the field? But it does need regulation as you point out - honestly, the conferences need to realign, break away from the NCAA, and have one massive joint media and licensing deal like the NFL, with collective bargaining and regulated contracts for the players. If we're going this route we need to go fully in as a minor league and not this strange middle ground college seems to live in. I also like the shift to NIL because it makes the insane facilities arms races less important over time (NFL players don't sign with a team because their indoor facility is better than another or they have indoor slides and laser tag).
I've always thought the coach v player value thing is a disingenuous argument. There are less Nick Sabans than there are 4 star running backs. Less Bill Belichicks than there are NFL QBs that start games - hundreds of them for example. Coaching is a skill- different than playing, that is at more of a premium than players in college sports. I never understood why people got upset that coaches made more money than players. Supply/Demand.
I get that coaching talent is a scarcer skill, and totally agree that the laws of supply and demand will dictate higher pay for coaches than players. There's no feasible way to pay college coaches and players on equal footing given the numbers. But I also don't understand the logic that some apply that somehow for instance, paying Fuente $4.5 mil a year and an $8.75 mil parachute to totally torpedo our program is "just business," but the mere thought of paying the players anything out in the open (because out of sight, out of mind) is disgusting.
I guess an analog here would be saying CEOs should get paid millions per year to run big companies and then in the same breath saying that anybody who works for those companies should be doing it for free (or, relative peanuts)
The coach vs player value thing is an ethical argument, not a supply/demand argument - You could be very right that quality coaches are rarer than quality players (though I think the flaw in your argument is that you're comparing hall of fame coaches to 4-star players. Are there more Nick Sabans than Michael Vicks? Maybe, maybe not, but I digress) - coaches can operate in a completely open and unregulated market. Players could not (until recently).
I don't think anyone is suggesting equal pay for coaches and players. Just similar rules.
While factually true, it's not like VT is trying to maximize profits for stakeholders. NCAA has manufactured a system where there is a race to non-profitability (yes, that is a made up word). VT (and every college) buys silly things so they can avoid profitability. There's a reason why every P5 weight room/locker room is nicer than every NFL locker room.
It's always been this way man. The dollar amounts are inflated now, but the spirit of the recruiting game is exactly the same.
Yes VT - never won a team championship in any sport- has always been the underdog and outmanned perhaps - clearly. My point was that now its ALL about money. The highest payroll team will likely win- that's called pro sports.
You're totally delusional to think that it hasn't been "ALL about money" for the past 40 years.
Even if it was "all about the money" there were still skills involved in scouting and developing players. It allowed schools with less resources to be competitive.
But the addition of the unlimited Transfer Portal has enabled NIL to become an effective Pay for Play Scheme.
I.e. if a school pays big money for a 5☆ who turns into a bust, it would be very penal to them to have them taking up NIL$ and a roster spot for 4 years...its limiting. But now, they just get to "strongly persuade" said Player to transfer out (which absolutely is happening at multiple places) and then use the lure of NIL money to poach players from other rosters in the portal.
IMHO there is little coincidence that NIL and the Transfer Portal both originated about the same time. It was a scheme developed by the Power Programs from the start.
I agree with this BUT I think that HUDL, 247, and social media have done infinitely more to hurt schools with lesser resources than NIL or the transfer portal have.
Getting off topic, but I honestly believe the simplest and fastest way to level the playing field would be a salary cap for coaching staffs. The pure man power at Bama and UGA is insane.
For what it's worth, the bolded stuff is not new. Some of the stories out there about Gary Patterson (which aren't much different from what Fuente allegedly did to Mook, or what Deion is doing in Colorado) are gross. The only difference between then and now is that in the past, the open scholarship was typically used for high school recruits, not transfers.
There were stories about Beamer doing this too.
is DC totally delusional or is he just .... virtue /signaling?
I think he's virtually signaling
lol - that was making my eye twitch tooo
but I wasn't going to call it out (the "quotes" just made it worse)
Ha, I thought it was funny. I also think he had a point, but it was tiptoeing the CGs, so I avoided discussing the semantics of the term.
Yes, agreed.
Really? I thought I saw TCU in the playoffs in January?
When VT was rolling under Frank (20 years ago), it invested fairly heavily in coaches and facilities relative to its competition. Since then my impression has been the VT fanbase has largely poo-poo'd the impact of money on football success - and gave like it.
To paraphase Hemingway, "How did so many schools pass VT in athletic giving and spending? Gradually, then suddenly".
I would love to see the numbers on how we unseated in coaches because I here that but have never seen the data. All I remember is that we have our assistance a raise because Frank almost left for UNC which was ready to pay more than VT and was ready to invest more in coaching than VT. But we weren't PSU or Michigan, or FSU, or Tennessee who all had longer term coaches that had won titles at that time. UF was paying Spurrier like no other until he left for the NFL. I just don't feel like we made that much of a crazy investment that seperated us from do many schools. After lane completed it took 10 years to get out practice facility built, which was I think the 16th of it's type in 2015. But now you have an 8 year old facility and say Duke builds a brand new one, whose is better?
We've still got some of the largest lockers in division 1, we have a juice bar, we keep building things for the football team, we have double the staff we had 3 years ago. Bowen is the highest paid OC at VT, Rudolph was the highest paid position coach. Both weren't top 50 paid assistants. We have more money flowing into the football program than we've ever had. The money, the construction is on going, we are planning a locker room remodel in the next year or so, and we just finished a wieght room upgrade.
made enough money to fund and grow the rest of the VT sports for decades. even if in the red certain years, the university and surrounding areas are green as hell b/c of football.
I think of it more like European football than minor leagues. Football teams used to be community factories playing against each other where you used to have to work in the factory to play. Now they're representatives of their communities, but just because they don't work in an affiliated factory doesn't make it less of a community centerpiece.
I am partial to the idea of a student-athlete, someone representing the school who's just like us students. But as I get farther away from my college days I care less about that and more of a representation of my school.
Same.
I'm very glad we are gonna close on a highly rated recruit.
I'm very disgusted with what "closing on a highly rated recruit" entails now.
There was a way we could have gotten these kids some money without it turning into what it has become. It's really unpalatable.
It took approximately 5 seconds to go from "hey man a kid should get a few bucks for signing autographs and his jersey in the bookstore" to 7 figure pay for play. In the open.
Why? Are you disgusted when someone accepts a job because it offers a higher salary?
I get that NIL shatters the image that college athletes are just like other students. But I don't understand how this could be 'unpalatable' or 'disgusting' - those are words I'd reserve for Sandusky, Briles, Freeze, etc
Edit to expand:
Not sure if you read this article about Arch Manning's recruitment. TL;DR, Texas spent nearly $280,000 to host 9 recruits (and their families) for 48 hours. Receipts show:
So flipping the question - what makes you feel more uncomfortable:
The former is newly allowed with the advent of NIL. The latter has been allowed for decades.
You realize that you are getting upset about an unverified statement from a message board poster from the team that had a top recruit flipped on them?
Maybe we are paying more than Shane would, I hope we are - kid is a top VA talent and it builds recruiting momentum in the state to keep that talent here, not to mention on offense too. But maybe that guy has no idea what he's talking about. Maybe it's also about more than just money, maybe the kid is buying in on Pry's pitch.
Either way, NIL is here to stay.
Really did not expect us to be competitive in the NIL space. Big shoutout to Triumph for the work they've been doing.
Big if true but could also just be copium, the go to excuse for any recruit is "oh he got a bag to go elsewhere"
I assume that since a staff member posted it, it's just as reputable as if Evan shared it. But not super familiar with 247.
Either way, it feels like a battle that will be intense until signing day. Because as of a few weeks ago he was a lock for usce. So much that insiders stated he was the Silent Commit that Shane had been speaking of.
On3 says his value is $79k. Williams is supposedly 89k. It won't show me Wiggins.
Chris Cole is showing 133k. I can't imagine we are getting enough in the way of NIL arrangements to meet every single recruit's supposed value.
I assume triumph is telling recruits what they think they are worth. Does it match on3? Maybe. Maybe not.
anyone know the original plan?
Wasn't this the original plan?
Latest Team Mom just dropped!
I'm not sure how to embed things, but Fletcher Westphal committed to UF yesterday. Figured we wouldn't get him, but at least he didn't go to Clemson.
Things went quiet with him the instant Rudolph left. I don't know if we ever had a chance, but it definitely went away in that one move.
Sounds about right. I know our OL recruiting shifted pretty good after Rudolph left. Thanks for lining up the timelines on that one.
Come for the article. Stay for the.... well, when you see it
reads twitter handle...
lol yup, this is pretty much my reaction when reading the content and then seeing the twitter handle
Starscream that is a throwback account to some not great posts.
Thanks for the explainer on that. I wasn't sure.
that's what she said...
Content wise, it is interesting that we have been reeling in some taller WRs.
2023 class:
Chance Fitzgerald 6'3"
Krystian Williams 6'2"
Marcell Baylor 6'3"
Da'Quan Felton 6'3"
Ali Jennings 6'2"
Lane looks like a slot guy at 5'10"
Couple ATH under 6' that could be in the slot.
TE is a solid room right now.
The Bengals passing attack has been fantastic with 6'2 Boyd, 6'4" Higgins, and 6'0" Chase. I would not stop recruiting big tall dudes who can run and catch. Finding a smaller quick type is easy, especially with the portal.
Give me all the tall receivers who can run a 40 yard dash in under 4.6 🔥🔥🔥
Right now I don't care about hieght, get players that can play. If they can run crisp routes and catch the ball then we will be a lot better.
I'm a sucker for tall receivers/DBs or Big Beefy linemen 😂
Um who isn't, I mean I don't recruit below 6'3" on NCAA 2014, but I just want to win so I don't care about hieght right now.
Ayden greene right at 6 ft, takye heath at 5'9"
I think Williams is a DB even though 247 lists him as a WR IIRC
Accurate
And this can only help with QB recruiting down the road. Who wouldn't want this group of pass-catchers to
make your numbers look goodthrow to?Is it VT Star Scream? or VT Stars Cream?
VT Stars Cream
This feels... wrong
Usually you get that result by it feeling right....
As the Wahoos say, gotta hydrate.
Is that the result of doing #hardthingstogether?
#harderthingstogether
#HoosGotTheClap