Discuss and share any recruiting topics for July 2023 that don't warrant their own threads. Commits and decommits warrant their own threads.
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[3] Pry Marve 2024
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It'll be on 247Sports YouTube channel at 1 pm est if anyone wanna watch it
Mixed times, he also said it was changing to 6
He changed it to 1 today
It has to be good that he's sped this up to this extent right after all the crystal balls went our direction. Definitely looks like he has made his final decision and is closing himself off to anyone trying to sway him from it.
My overall question to the brain trust is probably OT but: how do we feel about Holmon wiggins being the recruiter for Bama? (Didn't we hate his work with receivers and recruiting here? How he at Bama?)
That's not my recollection at all, but the brain bucket doesn't hold as much as it used to either...
Edit: I just checked his "Top Recruits" 247 page, and he brought a lot of talent to VT: Darrisaw (listed twice because of FUMA), Tre Turner, Tayvion Robinson, Jermain Waller, among others. Here's the link.
I also thought he was a good receivers coach and they kind of stagnated after his departure. Anyone with a better memory feel free to correct that perception.
I know holmon wiggins was with vt during the Fuente era as wr coach. Jumped to Bama in 19 for same role. Maybe that was honestly the problem with our catchers (that he left). At the same time looks like he is thriving at Bama (this is all pointless worrymongering now that I think about it, I just want nice things)
Yeah as I looked at it too that was my read too. Probably part of the fu downfall was him leaving. Which would make me even more nervous but (we won) so nbd...
So many different tweets and times, I guess I misread the one that changed it from 6 to 1
Crystal balls lined up, got the live feed going, can feel the excitement around the program. 100% ready to be hurt again
Just went to the channel, there's another recruit considering the Hokies that is set to commit at noon for basketball.
4* PF Isaiah Abraham
Too bad Mike young ain't having the success like Brent pry. Its gonna be Uconn for what its worth
Um, that's a bit different, how many head to head recruiting battles has Pry won against UGA? Losing a recruit to defending champs is understandable.
Going up against Bama today with Adam's.
Is that a commitable offer? Cause we went up against UGA for the Oline out of jersey, but no one thinks he had a commktable offer at the time.
Yes it is commitable and he OV'd there.
He is rated in the 90s and a top 200 player. Not sure why it wouldn't be committable.
Whether the offers from uga and Bama are real or not, pry is recruiting at a higher level. These recruits are not division 2 guys like the last coach was getting. I am hoping pry can now coach them up, hopefully to 6 wins and some new optimism in our program.
Don't forget Fuentes first several classes were top 20-30 until he shit the bed the last several. 20-30 is probably where we should be recruiting at and Pry is getting us back there.
Well, good thing Pry got the shitting the bed out of the way last year.
Yes, but I still think one of Fuente's (and Corny's) problems is they didn't know what players they needed to succeed. They needed very specific player attributes. They clearly could succeed with certain players, they just couldn't scout them and then recruit them (and not develop them either).
At least that's the only way I know how to explain 2016 and whatever year it was with Herbert.
So I take Fuente having a couple good classes with a very large grain of salt.
Its worth reiterating....
Pry ate our lunch in our own state when he was at Penn St. He was the biggest reason why we lost the 757, which eventually led to our talent drain that got us to where we were. He's a damn good recruiter, arguably elite, and he hand built our recruiting staff and program with a singular purpose of retaking Virginia on the backs of all the relationships he built and cultivated while working out of state.
We shouldn't be surprised its working now that he's leading the highest profile program in the region, let alone in the same state.
Great! a comment has nothing to do with what we were talking about and just here to shit on Fuente.
Mike Young signed the 34th best class in basketball last year, that is insane for VT. Pedulla in the class before last year was 10th at his position, Rice was 16th. And 2023 has Rechstiener at 16th. To compare Adam's is 30th. Benji Gosnell was the highest position rank at 20th and he was largely recruited by the last staff.
I don't know anyone thinks that Young isn't recruiting well for a program that doesn't have a good basketball history and hasn't really put players into the pros.
34th best class according to who😂 last year's class was 75th in the country. Yeah that's great recruiting isn't 🤡
You're literally turning into the people you complain about on here, especially throwing a clown emoji in at the end. MY certainly deserves to be critiqued, but you aren't adding anything except noise.
247 has VT at 34 inhouse and 28 composite for 2022.
You two are talking about different recruiting classes. 34th in 2022 and 75th in 2022.
That's why I threw the 2022 in there. King James was referring to 2023 as this year's class, as in the most recent, and 2022 as last year's. 2024 would be next year in this situation, as Primus said below. I can see how people would refer to them differently, but it seems easy enough to pop over to 247 and see what he's talking about before calling him a clown.
My bad I was seeing red again for a sec. I get hot headed sometimes 😂
That's 2 classes ago. 2023 would be last years class. Next year's class not looking good either. If MY doesn't make the ncaa tournament again this coming season he should be on the hot seat.
Good from a ratings perspective or good from a fit? Because those are two different issues when looking at an MY team.
Dude enough with the clown stuff. Quit acting like a child.
Oh welcome back from 247 👍
And no need for you to fire back with a comment like this
No need to poke it after 3 days and change, especially after Primus already owned it when the community called him out for it
https://www.thekeyplay.com/comment/1201671#comment-1201671
You can't compare fb and basketball recruiting by position rankings. Pedulla (who I like a lot) was a high 3 star as the number 10 ranked "cg" while adams is a mid 4 star as the 28th ranked receiver. There are far more football recruits than basketball recruits so you can't use their class position as a reference point. And both coaches are doing well on the trail
I was going by position rank because I agree it's hard to compare, but there are 29 WRs that are ranked better than Adam's, so if I am Bama, a college with a fantastic history of WRs, not looking at the 29 other guys? They already have a commit from #4 and last year they got #1 and #6. So while Adam's is a great get for us, Bama already has a room of higher rated guys and I'm sure next year they'll get a couple top 10 recievers.
I'm going to WAG some of these numbers because I know it doesn't quite work like this...
For VT we, as aspiring top 25 program, should get two top 50ish recievers a year just to maintain a top 25 wr room.
In basketball top programs need to take a pay ever other year to have a starter/backup. So Duke wants a top 10 PG ever other year so they always have a top PG running their offense. That means top 20 programs in basketball need a top 10 PG on any given year. I will give you that Duke will just get the #1 PG and then get another #1 PG when the first graduates/leaves foe the NBA. But that means top 40 programs are looking for a top 10 PG.
Now VT should be a top 25 football program.
VT shouldn't be a top 20 basketball program. I think a top 40 basketball program is an amazing stretch goal for VT.
So Pry is recruiting like we expect. Young hit it our of the park by getting highly rated players at VT.
I agree, hopefully this level of recruiting becomes closer to the floor than the ceiling. The only reason I assume the bama offer was commitable is because he took a recent official visit there but regardless glad he chose us.
Entirely possible it was, I just didn't know. They took the 35th WR last year too, but I don't know when that guy committed. Adam's a huge win for Pry for multiple reasons and bama doesn't throw away visits on guys they aren't interested in. Pry and team did a great job, I am not trying to take away from that.
Btw Evan confirmed that Alabama was making a late hard push for Adam's the week and a half leading up to his commitment. Think that confirms it was committable. This staff legit beat Bama for a recruit they wanted. After going 3-8....imagine what they can sell if they start winning.
When was the last time something like this happened? Win one going head to head with a powerhouse at the level of bama for a recruit. I feel like thats probably few and far between
Kevin Jones taking us over Penn State. I'm sure there are more recent ones, but I detest Penn State so much that I am reminding everybody of this one with a smile.
Yeah, except Kevin couldn't decide which program to choose, so he flipped a coin. The fact that Tech was tails makes me wonder if he really wanted PSU. At least he didn't say, "Ok, best two outta three" when the coin came up tails.
Tails never fails
Doesn't matter, we still win. And, maybe even more important to me, Penn State lost!
Kendall Fuller over everybody. Sure, VT had an in, but hopefully VT repeat that history with a prominent brother in the 2025 class.
It's noon tomorrow for Abraham. Likely UConn unfortunately.
I mean I can't blame anyone for wanting to sign up with a storied program like UConn coming off a Natty.
Here we go
LETTSSS GOOOOOO!
GOT HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEM
Boom got him!
He is the 3rd Top 10 VA recruit of this cycle according to On3 (Adams #4, Johnson #6, Wiggins #10), according to 247 (Wiggins up to 9th), 2nd according to ESPN (Adams #4, Wiggins #6), 2nd according to Rivals (Adams #3, Wiggins #5)
On3 now has us at 26th rated class
247 has us at 36th
Rivals has us at 34th
ESPN now has us with an ESPN300 QB, and an ESPN300 WR and an additional 4*WR
Feel like we keep getting good commits but not moving up the rankings. FWIW, our class average is better than 12 of the 35 schools above us in the rankings.
Yeah the average ranking is more important to me, it shows quality and not just quantity
Key insight on the relationship building going on and respect for Fontel Mines in this 247 article. Gotta love the foundation being set.
"The comfort and confidence in developing under Hokies receivers coach Fontel Mines was something Adams felt. During discussions with Mines, working on route running and learning deeper subtleties of the position intrigued Adams, whose family is equally impressed with Mines."
"I've been talking to (Mines) since Sept. 1, but he's been talking to my coaches and parents since I was in ninth grade so there was a bond there with my family,"
https://247sports.com/article/keylen-adams-scouting-report-virginia-tech...
Mines has been an absolute All-Star as a Recruiter. My only concern is keeping him in the boat because other Programs are sure to take notice quickly and he is going to have lots of $$ thrown his way.
Edit: Meant to be reply to Hokieguy95
... is this good?
it aint bad
via GIPHY
We have three Chances
For our commits, to-date, the primary/ secondary recruiter breakdown is:
Brooks: primary on 1. Secondary on 2.
Jones: primary on 2.
Quinn: primary on 1, secondary on 1
Price: primary on 3. Secondary on 1.
Mines: primary on 2, secondary on 2.
Holt: primary on 2.
Bowen: primary on 1.
Crook: primary on 2.
Prioleau: primary on 1. Secondary on 1.
Arbitrarily rating it using points for primary (2) and secondary (1), Price leads with 7 points. Mines has 6. Everyone else is four points or less.
With Adams' commitment, the Hokies have secured 19 high school recruits rated 4* by at least one of the four major recruiting services, starting with the 2022 class, 8 by at least 2, and 2 unanimous.
Their positional breakdowns are as follows:
QB: 1 (Belfort - Rivals and ESPN)
WR: 3 (Adams - All, Wiggins and Fitzgerald- Rivals and ESPN)
TE: 2 (Wright - On3 and 247, Gosnell - 247 and ESPN)
OL: 3 (Moore, Chaplin, Ghannam - On3)
DT: 1 (Givens - 247 and ESPN)
DE: 4 (Burgos, Johnson, Abbey- On3, Jennette - 247)
LB: 2 (Williams - All, Cotman Jr - Rivals)
CB: 3 (Delane, C. Johnson - ESPN, Barnes - On3)
What a difference a new head coach makes, huh?
From 2016-2019, Fuente secured 37 recruits rated 4* by at least one service, with 11 being unanimous.
In his last 2 years, he recruited 5, and no unanimous recruits
What's the breakdown of 2017-18? The comparative years to the 22-23 classes.
Pry: 13 4*s, 0 unanimous
Fu: 21 4*s, 7 unanimous
Remember Fu was coming off an ACC Championship appearancefor those classes.
Pry was coming off of Fu.
Fuente had a lot of four stars. But, it might help to group them by position, and then look at when they were there and contributing. Fuente never recruited on a way that built a complete roster.
2 QB
1 RB
3 WR
3 TE
1 DE
4 LB
5 CB
2 S
I can hear French screaming already.
Oline is odd with stars so not worried for lack of stars, but Dline have 1 is ridiculous.
Fuente could recruit, but he was awful at development and retention. A lot of those players came to VT and played like a 4 star recruit early in their career, but virtually none of them left are stars. Conner was basically the same caliber player is career. Farley developed, but we only got one good year out of him. Darrisaw is the best developmental case, but he was a diamond in the rough type.
Vice was fantastic at player development, that was the one position in the Fuente regime you could count on.
Thought Pry had two consensus?
Not really directed at your Q, but folks are all over the place on this subject. Lots of semantics in language, but I'd argue it's:
- "Recognized": One or more services label the guy a 4*
- "Consensus": Roughly half of said services label the guy 4*
- "Unanimous": ALL said services label the guy 4*
Same goes for things like All-American honors.
But, at least for 2024 verbals, we have two UNANIMOUS 4*s (Williams and Adams) and four others who would classify as recognized 4*s somewhere (Belfort, Wiggins, Johnson, Laws).
Just my $0.02.
Thank you for this, I was getting confused over the difference. This is a great note (worth more than two cents lol).
Fu and Co basically mailed it in from 2019 onward. Dude knew he couldn't win here, tried desperately to get the Baylor job and make it look like we were the problem, and it backfired spectacularly with him being stuck in the job through covid and even another year because of the optics. The honeymoon was over with Fu by the Duke game 2019 (I have heard anecdotes from higher HC members that the meeting the next morning with Whit was not pleasant and he vowed to tear things down and right the ship). Just took him a while due to finances.
Well, I think the question was answered rather quickly for you sir. Hope you were ordering beef!
Believe this one is down to Clemson/NCST
I don't think he's a take at Clemson
I'm not sure if he is a take at VT. We already have White practically begging to be let into the boat and at least the rating services have them similarly ranked. He isn't one of the three that Evan keeps talking about.
I mean adding 4 receivers to a crowded WR room where we took 4 last year is kind of a lot. But also you take good players when you get the chance to. The numbers work themselves out in camp.
Average WR room has about 9-12 scholarship guys? If we took 4 this cycle we probably end up with 13. 8 young guys plus Gosnell, Holloway, Lofton, Lane, Felton. Not the worst place to use another spot, but gotta be sure thjs kid can play if he gets it.
The staff would have to think that either player is meaningfully better than the players they already have in the room.
This is the VT fanbase's emotions having to snipe off dear old Shane for a recruit.
I'm sorry I love you. "Sweet chin music's Shane"
Pry signal is up. Do we know who's committing?
Mekhai pls
Did we not learn our lesson with those three letters from the Feaster transfer
I had no one on my radar right now
Who's he visiting, I wonder?
Gettin down and dirty at the FloriBama Shore
Sigh, I miss that show, it had just found it's way before being canceled.
It's a dead period. Maybe coaches clinic? Maybe vacation? Wedding?
Giving Nick Saben a chance to jump on board before it's too late
I thought about posting "interviewing for Alabama DC" but yours is much more positive lol
Nice graphic from Ox:
No PSU, no UNC, that's crazy.
No, it's fucking awesome
No PSU, Pry no longer at PSU
No UNC, Dre Bly no longer at UNC
Coincidence?
That's what I was going to comment as well.
But how about, at least right now, we have a higher recruit than Florida, Tennessee, and Notre Dame! How awesome is that? I mean, we I feel like we should expect that, but after the last few years of recruiting the state, it feels like a borderline miracle!
Reminds me of when I was in school during the Tyrod years. Love to see it. Hopefully we add some more Maroon rows in there towards the top. Pry and Co are doing work as they said they'd work towards. Now hopefully it translates to the field!
at a glance I thought we were absolutely dominating the top 40. Then I realized USCe, Minnesota, BC, and Indiana all looked maroon. Still fantastic, but why not cap it at 20, increase your font size, and choose the other color for those schools? For someone who's entire twitter handle is posting graphics, you think he'd fine tune them a little better.
We have 6 of the top 20 so far. That's a great start!
I agree. Not complaining about our recruiting this year at all, just the presentation of the statistics.
All above UVA's top recruit at #21. =^D
Because Ox has been doing it for a long time now and top 20 wasn't useful for a couple of years there.
But I agree on the color graphics in general. They hurt the eyes and are hard to decipher.
Comparing over time makes sense. I can see showing a progression with very garish colors to make changes easier to see.
What's the story with the two uncommitted OL on that list?
I've read rumors that we're thinking about going back to the portal for OL recruiting (same thing USAFHokie said below) because the staff wants immediate impact guys.
I don't know what that means Toliver - maybe he's still a take for us, maybe we're waiting to see how he does in senior season. For what it's worth, On3 has us as a slight leader for Toliver.
I don't think Cam'ron Warren has any interest in VT. We're not listed in his On3 profile. A friend of mind dug up a comment from an 'insider' on a paid board that listed our status with all of the top recruits in VA as of late April. It just said 'no' next to Cam'ron's name. I don't know anything more than that.
I think our immediate need at OL outweighs the future need at the position so the portal probably makes sense this cycle. That said, the OL portal market so far has been largely a low supply/high demand environment.
OL remains one of my biggest worries this season and next season. Hopefully we have some players make big strides and some of the young talented projects materialize into reliable starters.
Totally agree. BUT the limited OL market has me wondering if the portal is the best strategy - If you're going to get 0-2 OL out of the portal every 1-2 offseasons, is that easier than just landing recruits and developing them?
I remember listening to a podcast with either Bud Elliott or one of the guys from the Athletic, and they were explaining there's just a shortage of good OL in college football (much less in the portal) - they said about 1/3 of P5 teams have <5 capable OL, 1/3 of teams have 5 solid OL, and 1/3 of teams have >5 solid OL, but no one (even the title contenders) can confidently go deeper than 7 or 8 linemen. When I heard it explained that way, it was kind of a lightbulb moment.
Yep agree with this. Better I think to take the minimum 4 OL per class then make cuts and go to the portal when guys don't pan out.
Hopefully at least a couple of the '23 class OL can be impact players by next season. That's our most important OL class when it comes to the future of that unit
Yeah I didn't specify this in my original comment, but the low supply/high demand environment also means a lot of lower quality OL are getting reached for because of the overall lack of quality OL. Basically anyone who has any potential/proven they can actually play a college football game on the line is getting courted by multiple programs.
While I agree that maybe it's better to find guys we like and develop them, if they simply won't be physically ready for the first two years, and we need guys who can play in year 1 or 2, then beggars can't be choosers.
All of this is why OL is probably my biggest short term worry in terms of on-field performance.
It's like 7 footers in basketball, there's only so many so some get on the end of a bench with very little actual talent.
Which to me puts us in a very precarious position. If we use open spots to get guys out of the portal who are ready to play today, but at the expense of signing kids out of HS to develop, then how do you ever break that cycle? You'll always been looking for the portal guys that may not exist, or settle for guys who may be more ready today but never truly develop into quality linemen. Tough position to be in when you need wins now to sustain recruiting momentum.
To be fair (insert Letterkenny gif) this is a weak year at least at OT (according to Bud Elliott) and I'm guessing OL as a whole. So while my armchair recruiter brain says take 4 high schoolers, this may not be a terrible year to have a small class and push your chips into the portal.
I would guess it looks something like the Fuente RB approach where you go a year or two with 17 OL on the roster. Need to build up some other position rooms with young talent first, but it will probably take a year or two of heavy, pun intended, OL numbers to find a good 10-12 to whittle down to.
Mensah is Pry's 31st commitment from a Virginia high school recruit as Head Coach in 3 classes (22-24) (10.3 per class)
His predecessor had a total of 39 Virginia commitments in 6 (16-21) (5.5 per class)
Pry wasn't joking about focusing on VA and the 6-hr radius.
And this recruiting class isnt done
Our board is:
Chris Cole
Mekhai White
Frank Johnson (or another LB)
2 offensive linemen TBD
Is there anyone else we should be watching for? That would be a 21 person class.
Cole would be a monstrous pull. I haven't been following the scholly numbers by class super closely, but do you know if this is a smaller class because of numbers and/or a smaller class with an eye on using a handful or so spots on the portal?
I have no idea. I was hoping you knew from your intel. That's the board as I understand it from TKP/Twitter/247 scuttlebutt and the fact we usually take 4 OL minimum in a class.
I bet we only take 1 more oline this year. Maybe add 1 RB if there's someone we really want. Not confident we definitely take another WR. There's been rumors about flipping the Trinity HS kid whos the DB who's committed to Minnesota but that obviously hasnt happened yet
I seriously doubt we get an RB. Really want at least two more solid OL. Web Davidson will probably be one. Hopefully we can get 1 more, that's our biggest limiting factor over the next 2-3 years, but maybe by 2026 it's a position where we could have some nice depth.
In summary: Cole, White, Rainer, Davidson, try to flip Johnson, 1 more highly rated OL, 1 more high floor/ready to play DE
Makes a total of 23 and we can call it a class imo
Listened to Sons of Saturday podcast with Fontel Mines on it today. Mines mentioned that this was a smaller class due to previous class sizes.
Didn't Fred Johnson commit to USCe?
I thought he ended up running Tycho Station
Underrated comment right here.
Flipping Rainer
Good call
All the flips we've talked about plus those that we know we're still after would put Pry at 37 Virginia recruits out of high school after 3 years vs 39 for Fuente over 6, if we land them all
Do we have a shot at Cole? I thought I'd read he's going out of state.
I guess I'm asking, "Are we on *his* board?"
Chris Cole? I think he's visited us more than anyone else by a lot. I wouldn't bank on getting him, but if we can show a pulse this fall and show some proof of concept (ie beat ODU, Rutgers, maybe bowling) I think we have a decent shot with him.
White is not a take right now. Sucks because he's a top 10 player in VA but we have taken a bunch of WR's last year. For OL, we apparently are waiting to see if anyone blows up senior season and if not, hit the portal hard. I'ts a small class.
I have a hard time wrapping my brain around a top 10 VA kid not being a take because we're solid at their position. Like, it feels like a good position to be in but it's also a bit of a shock to the system
This is how you avoid having twice as many running backs as you need.
Yeah except we can easily push any of the guys out if we think White will be better. He's rated higher than any of the four guys in this class. In this portal era too you never know if/when/why someone will end up leaving. The numbers always work out. You take top 10 players in the state
OR you keep building a solid relationship, and then see if he wants come back via the portal later
I think that approach works a lot better for a recruit who big dogged us, then decides the grass isn't always greener later on and appreciates things about VT that they didn't before.
I dont think it works quite the same if we tell a kid they're not a take for us but maybe check back in a few years in case those other guys we took don't pan out
This is where transparency is key... if the whole time coaches are saying there are two spots, and three players you're considering, and the first two players who commit get a spot, but the third does not, what does that third player expect to happen?
If they are deeply offended and unable to fathom that there is no longer a spot for them (despite this being clear from the beginning), then they're probably not a fit. If you keep the relationship alive, and say 'hey, we don't have a spot for you now, but a lot can happen between now and signing day (and over the next 4 years), let's keep in touch,' then maybe they'll come home when/if the time is right.
Edit: this whole discussion assumes he's interested in VT, which he may not be
Reading between the lines of the chatter on here (not saying it is accurate), he may have tried to commit earlier and we wouldn't take it. But, I guess that could also be considered transparency.
I tend to agree..I know we are all riding high on recent Recruiting successes but I have a hard time fathoming us not taking White.
The comparison to RBs and Fuente isn't really an apt one as you can have 4-5 WR on the field at one time vs 1 RB and taking multiple 4☆ WR is much different than taking multiple .85 rated 3☆ RBs.
Let's just say we get off to a really rough start this season and have some attrition from the current verbals...and White commits elsewhere because he's not a take...the message boards will roast Pry with the same fervor that we now are praising him. You can't have it both ways.
Yep and by roster numbers I would be a proponent of taking both White AND Taylor if possible and getting talented playmakers into the room. We have over a year to evaluate and set the numbers straight.
The idea that we wouldn't even take White makes no sense and would be a case of outsmarting yourself/shooting yourself in the foot imo
I seem to remember Chanz Wiggins asking Mekhai White "where we going?" on twitter. (I don't twitter, so I can't search his feed.) Is there a chance that if White isn't a take, we might lose Wiggins?
Personally, I think that's absurd. You don't turn down top 10 VA talent that WANTS to go to VT, I don't care how full the position room is. You take the talent and let them compete with each other for playing time.
Don't fuck up KG2VT!
it was vice versa, white asking wiggins
I had another post where I looked at the top 10 in Va since 2016. There was a fair amount of variability from year to year, with one year I think the top 14 in Va were in the top 300 nationally, another year only the top 8 were. This year, as of now, only the top 5 are. Ideally we take the best talent we can, and if Va is down one year, we need to be okay with taking more kids from out of state (or saving spots for the portal).
At the same time, taking VA guys when your goal is to own VA looks better for the future.
That's great if we want to be the best school in VA. Depending on how high you want our ceiling to be, you let kids know you PREFER to take the best kids in VA, but we also want to win at a high level, and if there are much better kids in Md, NC, WV, TN, PA, or wherever, we're taking them because we want to win championships, and if kids don't get that, I guess we decide being the best football school in VA is good enough.
Don't get me wrong, bring in the best kids in VA, but if it's a down year, take maybe 7 or 8 guys from VA. If it's and up year, take more, but don't say we're going to take kids from VA just because we want to own VA.
I dont think this should happen in 4-5 years, maybe even in 2-3, but right now Pry is trying to send a message to PSU, Clemson, UNC, Bama, FSU, and every other school that has been coming into virginia as well as send a message to the kids and high school coaches, Virginia is ours. It might be a down year but I don't think we've taken 50% of the top 10 sincec 2005 time-frame, which is about when our recruiting started to fall off. We had a couple good classes after that but many where we just whiffed on our top recruits.
This is a top 10 VA kid we're talking about here, not some borderline Top 25. Even in a down year, a top 10 VA kid should be deserving of a spot on the roster. The kid can play, and WANTS to play here.
KG2VT
Did you read my comment above? I wasn't making the case about any one person. I was saying not all VA top 10s are created equal. There are some where #10 is like 280 in the country, but this year #6 is 424 in the country. I'm saying don't make the blanket statement that we should automatically want to take any of the top 10 in VA, ESPECIALLY if, a couple years down the road our recruiting is MUCH better even than this year is going.
We should always want the best VA has to offer, but we should also want the best overall recruits, especially if that means we get to the place where we are winning 10 games per season and want to recruit to get us to the playoffs.
Edit: I was also saying our goal isn't to own VA. I mean, do we make it our goal to sign the 1st to 25th player in VA every year? Our goal isn't and shouldn't be to "own VA" - it should be to get to and win the ACCCG and hopefully eventually to get to the playoffs and win that. We should want the best recruits to do that, which means the BEST recruits, including the BEST VA has to offer, but also the best we can get from our recruiting area. I mean, if we got the number 1 recruit in 25 states, including most of the top 25 prospects in the US, but none in VA, would you complain?
That's an extreme hypothetical; I'm not even going to go there.
My point is that we're still trying to rebuild our relationships with the coaches/programs in VA, and if there's a talented VA player that wants to come here, we should take him. Yes, the 10th best player in VA will fluctuate in national rankings from year to year, but you can't tell me that a top 10 player in VA has no shot at making the roster based on the talent level we have right now and coming in. You bring in talent and let the competition sort it out.
I didn't say to ignore relationships with coaches and players from VA. I think it's FANTASTIC that he's doing that, and it's clearly paying dividends.
I'm talking about what our goals should be. If we want to be playing for championships, and, like this year when our 6th rated player in VA sits at 424th nationally, no, I don't know that the 10th rated guy in VA would be a lock for starting (I mean, if we're fine with winning 8 or nine games a year forever, then yeah sure, again, I think our goals should be higher than that). I mean, I went and looked at Alabama, Georgia, and Florida. Alabama I think you had to get to the 24th player in the state get out of the top 300 nationally. In Georgia, it was the 37th guy, and in Florida, it was the 44th guy.
It all depends on what we really want from our team. I guess I want to go back to playing for championships. And yeah, maybe an interim goal is locking up the best guys in VA, but again, I just want to get the best guys we can, wherever they come from (notice I didn't say to NOT recruit VA, so don't read that into what I'm saying - just Get. The. Best. Guys. (And no, not assuming we suck at recruiting so get whoever the best of who will actually come here and most don't - I'm talking to winning games and making this a place where REALLY good players WANT to come, and recruiting the BEST of them, wherever they're coming from)).
Hear me out on this one...
LETS GO!!!!
HOKIES!!
Don't disagree with your underlying premise, but right now a kid in the top 500 is still a take for us. It's not like our entire class is in the top 300. That has never been the case at VT and never will be for any school other than Georgia, Bama, LSU.
All I'm saying is top 10 is arbitrary, and not always the same quality. #6 this year is 424, two ties at 7 are at 464, 9 is 534, and if you go to 13, you're at 717. And rather than saying the exact same things in every post, I'm arguing that I want to get to a point where at least more than not are in the top 300 for us. And it's a goal, and I've said "owning" VA is a good interim goal, but the question is what do we WANT? Not now, but eventually? Doe we WNT to be an 8-9 win team, or do we want to be in the ACCCG every year and going to the playoffs some years? If playoffs is the goal, we need to shoot higher than "owning" VA.
And, like I've said, that's okay for an interim goal, but it's probably not one I'd be harping on. I mean, if we want good kids to go to Tech, you're not selling them on the vision of beating all the schools in VA. You want it, but that's not the vision they're going to Tech for. They're probably signing on for a vision of playing in the ACCCG. So if you want to talk "owning" VA, say stuff like "the first step is owning VA" or something, and not talking like that's some end-state goal. And to everyone who says it's embarrassing getting beat by ODU or JMU or Liberty - yeah, it is, so why is beating those schools such a lofty goal then? Making beating those schools a goal seems embarrassing also - it shouldn't be a goal, it should be an expectation.
As for the top 300, I just used that as a mark to show that the top of the VA class can vary a great deal (see the first paragraph where I gave numbers, and contrast it to other years where the top 15 are all in the top 300, meaning it's a lot better to have a bunch of VA recruits some years compared to others). And not sure about overall classes, but if #13 is 717 in the country and guys in the 700s and below are takes for us, I hope we can improve a lot quickly, and again, maybe someone in the 500s is a take, but that's only the top 7-8 this year.
100% agree. Solid post. Just win, baby.
One thing I would add is that I think pry is threading the needle and putting in the effort so that we don't need to "take" a kid every year just to maintain a relationship in VA. Some of that happened at the end of the Beamer Era and it really hurt us.
And finally, can we just dog the hell out of JMU, Liberty, and ODU a few times so we can stop scheduling these bozos?
I agree, I think last year was probably difficult given our roster, but Pry and company have been recruiting solidly. If they can develop these guys and get some good play, they should get better recruits, and hopefully build us into the program we want to be. I mean, the recruiting this year feels like the first time we've really had a legitimate reason to get excited since like 2016. I guess that's why I'm looking more at end goals than the interim goal of owning VA.
Yes, I know a lot of people are probably worried that we'll get disappointed again like free 2016 and our downward spiral, but excitement can count a lot when (re)building a program. I want to get excited about the ACCCG and think of
beatingcrushing the VA teams as an expectation. LET'S FUCKING GO!This narrative started when we started sucking at recruiting virginia. Every excuse was given- recruiting your state is not that important, talent in va is down, doesn't matter where you get talent from, yadda yadda. It was justification for us sucking at getting virginia kids. Thankfully Pry recognizes the importance of recruiting your home state well.
Yeah, except Fuente wasn't actually GETTING the best players. I'm not saying to ignore VA, just that it shouldn't be a goal to "win" or "own" VA. Everyone seems to be taking side points, dragging up the past, or whatever. People are acting like we should lock down VA, no matter what, possibly at the expense of recruiting the best players in surrounding states.
All I said was that VA won't always have the same strength from year to year, and the coaches should recruit the best players in any given year. Fuente tried recruiting kids from all over the place, which makes it difficult to build and maintain relationships with HS coaches and players, especially when you're talking Texas.
Staying in a limited geographical area means you can build those relationships, and in a down VA year, maybe you take 7 kids from VA and more from NC, MD, and PA. But in a good VA year you take 12-15 kids from VA.
You're taking what I said and putting it through the Fuente filter of sucking at recruiting and recruiting predominantly outside VA. I'm assuming, based on the improvement in recruiting this year, that, assuming Pry puts together some results on the field, he'll continue improving recruiting, not start sucking and all of a sudden totally ignoring VA. Improving recruiting more means he should actually be able to sign better players, and if he can do that (again, the assumption being that he's actually good at recruiting and signing good players), he should take the best ones he can, not just taking everyone he can from VA.
I will go to my grave saying that being the best/top/premier program in Virginia is important in every way. If you would have told me in the early mid 2000s that we would lose to ODU and Liberty- I would have laughed in your face. Well here we are. We LET those programs catch up, we gave them air. And that sucks- always will. And perception in our home state has ALOT to do with it. I remember being on the field pre-game against App State in Lane- a program on the level of ODU and Liberty at the time and currently- And Billy Hite told the guy I was with "David Wilson just told me he is scoring on the first play if he gets the ball, so I think I'll call that play" - kid you not. Of course Wilson- a high 4 star/5 star type kid from Virginia housed it untouched. Do you know how far off we are from that right now??? Night and Day. When we play ODU in a few weeks in Lane mind you- it will be a nip/tuck one score type game. And ODU is not a good program. We got away from being the premier program in the state. Fact. And Pry understands we need to get back there.
I don't get your arguing tactics. I said I want to get the best players no matter where they come from. You seemed to argue that we can't recruit (as if it were still Fuente recruiting), and now you're talking like you think we should be in the glory days of Tech, which I agree with. The problem is making being the best in VA a goal. It's a good INTERIM goal, but I want our program to be the best in the ACC and one of the best in the country. That automatically involves being the best in VA, but without you making it your specific goal.
It's like if you're a boxer who got really fat, but wants to contend for the heavyweight championship again again. You don't make your goal beating the worst guy currently fighting in the heavyweight division, unless it's an interim one to where you're fighting for the belt again.
I feel like everyone on here is stuck so far in the "we suck" thought process that you're ignoring setting goals for the future. I don't want to "own VA," I want to fucking destroy it - on the way to WINNING the ACCCG and going to and playing strong in the playoffs. Yeah, we're not there now, but THAT is my goal, not recruiting some specific number of kids from VA, or beating every school in VA, or whatever.
I mean, if we're recruiting really good kids, and you're selling them a vision, do you think, "I want to beat every school in VA" is a profound vision to sell someone? Beating every school in VA is something a mediocre team in the ACC SHOULD do (and yes, I understand where we are now, but I'm talking end goals, not current or next season goals). So yes, beating those schools is a good interim goal, but I don't understand why you and others are arguing so much that it must be done, when I'm talking winning the ACC and going to the playoffs.
One of the challenges with all of the great back and forth between you all is no clear set timelines. I read through these posts and you both basically agree and seem to go back and forth on missed perceptions around if "Owning VA" is the END GOAL or an INTERIM GOAL.
Considering the relative upvotes, it seems people on here would be happier winning VA and don't care about the ACCCG or trying to get to the playoffs.
No, people just realize that "winning VA" is Step 1 in the process, not the end goal. For VT it is necessary because we aren't a blue blood. It was foundational for how the program rose to national notoriety and it is foundational now. No one is arguing that we should only recruit VA. It's the baseline.
You seem to be either willfully ignoring that or just misunderstanding what people are arguing for. Of course we all have aspirations for the ACCCG and eventually the playoffs. Do you legitimately think that we would all be happy winning the state in recruiting while being a borderline .500 team every year?
I've literally been saying it's good as an interim goal. So, I don't know what you want me to think when I actually SAY that, but DC hasn't mentioned anything other than beating other VA teams? Did you actually read all my comments? I try not to repeat myself (because I try to present thought out posts that can be on the longer side), but it seems like I should since people only respond to what I say in the immediately preceding post, not on the other things I've said in the thread as a cohesive point.
that's showbiz babey
welcome to the internet
There's two things you're missing IMO (the first is relevant to the past thread, the second is more my interest/concern).
Recruiting Strategy
We have limited resources (recruiting coordinators, scouts, private jet fuel, money for official visits, etc) - we have to maximize those resources.
Pry has stated that he wants us to land recruits by building relationships with high school coaches, families, etc and developing those relationships over time (he has talked about starting to scout players and build relationships as early as 8th and 9th grade).
If you have 10 coaches that can introduce you 100 potential recruits across 5 regions, that's 10 people you have to get introductions from, 5 places you need to travel to, etc. The kids probably already know each other, so you can land recruits in bulk... It's just less work. If you recruit across a larger geographic area, you need to know more coaches, have the resources (people, time, jet fuel) to maintain those relationships, and you need to come up with some way to replace the efficiency of the 'package deal'. It's difficult, unless you're a proven national title winning program.
This phenomenon is called 'Economics of Scope' - it's when you decrease the cost of production by limiting focus. It's the opposite of 'Economics of Scale', where an increase in production leads to a decrease in costs.
Where do we stand in college football?
The second is a bit more existential... In my mind, recruiting prowess shows the potential that VT has as a program. On the field performance shows how capable Brent Pry is as a coach.
We don't have enough information to know if Pry is a good coach yet. But, IMO, we also don't really know where VT stands in the modern era of college football. I posed this question in another thread: Does VT have staying power in the modern college football landscape, or was VT just able to find a unique, no-longer-replicable way to win in a begone era of college sports?
If we can prove that we can get (most of) the best recruits in the DMV/Carolinas, then we can prove that we belong in the upper echelon of college football, which means (assuming coaching salaries remain competitive) that we will always be an attractive destination for future coaches.
If Pry can't pull talent, then (in my mind) it basically confirms that VT is a top 50 'program', not a top 30, and the goal of winning ACC Championships every 5 years (or more frequently) isn't really reasonable any more.
So yea, right now, I care more about recruiting success then on-field results.
Don't know if I'm missing the limited scope - although I've said "best players from wherever," I am just thinking from within the 6 hour radius Pry has stated, and mentioned specifically NC, MD, and PA (since they're within the radius). So I'm not expecting players literally from anywhere in the country (I did also say that was a downfall of Fuente, spreading those resources by deciding to go to TX (which means if you're going to send staff there for face time with HS coaches, you're limiting your resources even more because of travel time and expenses).
And yes, you're right, on field performance is important, and will limit the recruiting. And to some extent it's a circular or spiral process. You can improve recruiting to some extent by selling a vision if you're a new coach, as well as understanding the importance of building really solid relationships in recruiting (which, in the past, some people who will not be named didn't seem to understand). Get better recruits, develop them (again with the not doing things in the past), and turn it into on-field results, which helps with getting better recruits and showing new recruits that you're working toward the vision, resulting in better recruits over time.
I understand it's a process, I'm just "beginning with the end in mind" to use a phrase I've heard before. You set your sights on where you want to be and work the process to get there.
And part of that process, eventually, will probably be not necessarily taking a certain amount of kids from VA in a down year, but instead taking the BEST VA has to offer, but maybe more of the best from those surrounding states within the 6 hour window if one or more have a very good year, which, to your point, we will have better success at if we've turned our recruiting into on-field success.
This was detailed in a 1990 t-shirt:
# 1 in the Nation# 1 in the ACC
# 1 in Virginia
# 1 in Charlottesville
Had the shirt - awesome
Remember that one. Thought it had a question mark after the Charlottesville, but can't remember. Has been a long time.
It did have a question mark after Charlottesville. We had a couple laughs about how strong the high school teams were in the area.
Remember it well...old George Welsh was picking his nose extra hard during that game in Blacksburg. They went from #1 in the country to unranked in a month. LOLUva was a thing LONG before they lost to the 16 seed in the NCAA tournament.
reminds me of when LOLUVa was ranked as the #2 public school by some publication. I IMed a friend from high school
Came up with an idea for a sign at the UVA game that year, which was our first ESPN game:
Everybody
Simply
Pretended they were
Number one.
Never made the sign, though. That would've been baller to get on screen.
The argument of take a top 10 kid vs. not is nonsense. White is rated higher than Wiggins by 247, On3, and the composite. We're taking both.
Yes, White is a "take" for us. to suggest otherwise is nonsense
Good. That was my only point, that he should be a take for us.
KG2VT
Who was suggesting? He's not a take right now and that's from people who are connected to the program. I'm not saying I think we shouldn't or won't take him in the end, but right now this is a small class with limited spots so he is a wait and see for the staff. Other schools have cooled on him too so there could be other issues with him. That last part is just me speculating but if you look at his recruitment, something is off about it. Per EW, there are three recruits that have a guaranteed spot: Cole, Johnson, and Rainer.
Johnson? What about Kris?
Kris Jones is going to Georgia most likely
That spot is about to be taking by a 5 star
Hmm I got another LB in mind
Steven Soles? 247 had him as an Edge, just checked on3 (because 247 has been weird all week) has him as a lb. Interesting.
No. Another in state linebacker. Also is a 4 star
Do you have intel on this? There's been no indication that we're in the game for him from what I've seen (which isn't much I guess).
He likes the staff but he had a spot at Uga and he wanted Florida. Florida passed it looks like a 5 star linebacker gonna take Jones spot at UGA. Also he's been liking a lot of our Commitment post. Its still unlikely but our chances have shot up a little bit over the last month
I don't have enough eyes emojis to react to this post
A 93 in the boat would look nice...
Mines and Price currently among the Top 5 recruiters in the ACC
Davi is training hard and Vitor wearing the VT brand.
As a father, I interpret this video to not be about the son training for VT but as saying:
"If you boys mess around with my daughter, I will kill you"
Assuming she did not beat the crud out of you first.
Given the training his daughter has probably gotten from her dad, SHE will probably kill you.
Way back when I was a teenager, I would not have been scared off. Definitely put myself in worse situations back then.
Karma is a bitch though as I now have 2 daughters.
anyone else half expect him to drop that plate ON HIS BARE FEET?!!!!
Assuming we land White and Cole, and flip Johnson, Pry will land 5 players in the VA top 10 for this cycle (247)
Fuente landed 6 in 6 years (247)
That's a LOT of assuming going on lol
and we all know what happens when you assume.... sometimes you're wrong!
Assuming Matty Ice sprains his ankle, we beat BC 10-0 in 2007...
Too soon bro
And I don't break my coffee table, lol
I am jealous you were inside and dry. I was in the top row of the south endzone
Upper portal level section 31 myself. Rain was GREAT and didn't mind getting wet...until the last two minutes....
I was at that game in a t-shirt because I was young and dumb not reading the weather. Even though we lost, I'm not sure I'd trade that game for being dry at home. That crowd was wild and a good game to me and I'll always cherish those first 3 1/2 quarters of the game tremendously.
I was nearby ... I still remember someone going down the steps in the 2nd half (I think??) and slipping really bad. Wasn't good.
I'm still bothered more by the onsides kick that gave them the ball back. Well, maybe not bothered more, but I think that play gets overlooked.
Onsides kick wasn't a bad call. Calling it for Josh Morgan- who had a cast on his arm at the time, might not have been the best execution
It wasn't the call or the setup that I have a problem with, just the result that bothers me. The pass gets all the press, but recovering the onsides kick was actually the first time in that whole stupid game where I thought BC actually had a chance.
That was the moment my gut sank after moving two rows from the 50 yard line and realized it was raining
Assuming this unlikely scenario comes to fruition...
Did the Powerball thread bleed into this one?
Media days are next week. Remember what happened last media days when Brent Pry went up to the podium 🤔
He had a fantastic suit?
Interested to see how Jim Phillips follows up his dud of a speech from last year
Based on the number of lawsuits coming his way from his time at NW in the next month I bet his speech is real short with little media time.
Some one should clap above his head once he is done with his dud of a speech /s
Would be pretty awesome if they timed up a commitment to happen while he's at the podium again.
Paging Chris Cole.
Why not have Chris Cole in the building. And while Pry is at the podium, he can walk up, shake Pry's hand, lean over to the microphone, commit there on the spot, and Pry can give him a VT hat to put on.
F me. I'm old. Nothing to see here.
Now this is COOL. QB commit (Belfort) training with current WR Tucker Holloway and former WR Isaiah Ford. This is refreshing to see. This class is dialed in more than any class we've signed in recent memory.
Those shorts are 🔥
Yea I need those
I believe those are Wes and Willy cabana boy swim trunks.
Thinking about snagging a pair of these ones
Link plz
https://www.fanatics.com/college/virginia-tech-hokies/swim-and-beach/-vi...
Just a heads up. From here on out I wouldn't expect much recruiting news for us just because we got most of our Top targets in the boat already and only having a couple spots left the staff is going to be real picky on who those spots are going to go too
So what I am hearing is that all future recruiting news will be to celebrate top recruits for choosing VT, got it!
Nothing but 5 stars is what I read it as. Exciting times. Look at VT, we are the Georgia now
I mean, supposedly UGA is
losing interest inpursuing LBs in addition to Cole, which would (presumably) be good for us.Edited for clarity/accuracy
That's very opposite to what I heard today but I hope that one is true 😂
Williams committing to Georgia has to help up some, right?
Depends uga is hella over recruiting rn
Did BourbonStreet crawl inside your body?
If White and Taylor aren't takes they better not tear it up at UNC and Maryland all I'm gonna say
Well they are some good players but the receiver class for us got filled up in a span of a week. That's the game you play recruiting
This isn't directed at you specifically, but people complaining that a player might not be a take when we're clearly full at the position (Lane and Felton have 2 seasons left to play from the portal, Jennings might be only receiver who's definitely done after this fall?) after everyone spent 2 years complaining about 300 scholarship running backs and the poor roster management of the old staff is a bit odd 🤷🏻♂️
I don't think it is odd at all. You can play 5 wide receivers on one play. You can't play 5 running backs in a game.
Also, we have no guarantee that Lane or Felton will be able to contribute on a consistent basis at the P5 level. Sure, they've had a good one off game here and there (see Lane vs. Miami), but can they do it week in, week out? We have no data on that whatsoever. So, if those guys aren't what we think they are, by all means, reload.
Right, but only 1 guy can catch the ball at a time, and its hard to get 12 guys quality reps in practice especially once the season starts. We still have 12 scholarship WRs on the roster right now, and Jennings is the only one who exhausts his eligibility after this season. No attrition plus adding white to the recruiting class would mean the 2024 roster (yes yes there will be attrition) would have 14 scholarship WRs on the roster, which is a lot.
Felton is listed as a RS Senior. Does he have 2 years of eligibility? Gosnell is also listed as a senior. Barring a truly breakout year, we've seen what we need to see from Lofton. I'm sure there are others.
All of those guys could be processed out even if they have another year. With a handful of exceptions, we don't have many guys on this team that should have a guaranteed roster spot. These are the "tough conversations"Pry references so often
Assuming Felton, Lane and Gosnell stay next year, for 2024 we already will have 12 scholarship WR's on the roster. We need to see what the current guys can do before adding another scholarship to that room.
I think the 'reload' should come after this season if those guys you mentioned end up not being the answer. But right now, to Jimbo and Primus' point, we're filled on WR's and that's the 'cruiting game.
EDIT: Damnit Jimbo beat me back by a minute, guess I'll be drinking early on a Tuesday
Pure numbers hardly matter compared to the actual talent on the field. White and Taylor are both rated higher than basically any of the receivers we have on the roster right now.
My point is if we say that White and Taylor don't have spots because of so and so, then later it turns out so and so can't play while White and Taylor are tearing it up at Maryland and UNC, that is mismanagement. We ran off Cam Johnson after a year, we could free up the roster spots at receiver if we want/needed to
Or if they show up and don't pan out like 50% of all 4 stars don't, this board will spend 2 months talking about poor roster management. I guarantee Pry & Co aren't running to 247 and comparing rankings and going "crap we've gotta take this guy, 247 says he's better than recruits at other positions of need"
The point is it's completely fine if their evals say to take Adams and Wiggins but not White (because they like who's currently on the roster better). But that becomes a problem if White goes to Maryland and tears it up and we have 3-4 receivers transfer during this offseason.
I think you're conflating a couple of different things - If White excels at MD but Adams/Wiggins fail here, then there could be a problem with how we evaluate receivers. But that's not a roster management problem - that is to say; the staff needs to trust their evaluations; they can't sacrifice roster balance in order to hedge their evaluations.
I agree with Jimbo's point - Pry & Co have to balance a lot of things:
In order to take White, the staff needs to either:
My understanding (from anonymous alleged 'insiders' the interwebs) is that Adams/Wiggins/White knew there were limited spots, and White wanted to explore other options. In that time, he lost his spot. Thats how the game goes 🤷♂️
And if Whites coach knows that this is the situation then there should be no ill will in the future when we come looking at other recruits. It might actually help us because we kept our word to the 2 that did commit.
💯 That's the thought process.
We need to do what all big time winning programs do. Take the best ballers that you can. We were 3-8 with a plus 100 offense. But we are being picky about Mehki White now??? doesn't jive. Make the scholarship numbers work elsewhere. That's what big time, winning programs do.
We have 5+ receivers on the roster who are ranked similarly to Mehki. Mehki is not Chris Cole level good.
No, that's what Fuente did.
A difference on the Fuente front is he took (from my jaded recollection) 12 running backs who were ~.85 and mostly deciding between us and a G5 school - at the expense of other positions.
If we feel we're set at WR and want to ride with what we have then that works for me. But given the production we've seen in recent years and our recruiting trends (even with the WRs picked up in the last two cycles), it seems like we should be able to make space pretty easily for a top 10 player from VA if we think he can play
That's exactly where we're at. Will Stewart did a good job of explaining it on the recent TSL pod, explaining that we intentionally over-recruited the position in 23, and now we have limited spots for WR in '24
IFFFFF the coaches don't think they have space for White BECAUSE they really like the guys we have- and I mean James Mitchell type like in camp vs. "he shows flashes" then I have to be OK with it. I have to trust it. But if Pry shakes his head and says golly we got a lot of WRs? no I'm not down with that. Our offensive coaches can tell if these kids that have been on campus can physically compete - so base the decision on that and not "flashes"
Fair enough. let's use those last few open spots wisely and round out a solid class
That's exactly it - we're saving spots for a transfer portal lineman, or Chris Cole. If Cole lands at UGA, maybe White is offered a spot being held for him. Idk we'll see 🤷♂️
This is the boat of the argument I'm in. Also if Cole does go to UGA the staff is gonna go full throttle to try and flip Fred Johnson. Also if we do look for a 3rd receiver down the road. There's another recruit that might get a look but it wouldn't happen until late in the class window
I'm confused; I thought Coles was the PennSt lean and Jones was UGA???
Nah I'll say both are uga leans
The WRs we have on the roster now are either true freshman - could be Jadon Payoute, could be Cam Phillips- or they were on a team last year that had one legit P5 WR and were horrible. White should be a take for more reasons than one.
Unless I'm missing something, White is marginally more 'talented' than maybe half the WRs on the roster (Holloway and Gosnell are expected to take big steps forward this season). Are there unproven freshmen? Absolutely. But White is just as unproven as those guys. Please explain what I'm missing.
Edited to sort by rating
The delayed response is due to DC waiting for his Form 232C (Goal Post Relocation Authorization, 2023 Revison B) to process. He will be with you shortly.
I lol'd
I'm not moving any goal posts. Kirby Smart wouldn't back off of Mehki White because Benji Gosnell is on scholarship. I'll leave it at that. That was my main premise, that is my point. Cole Beck- who literally can't play football- was on scholarship last year. So again- don't tell me we don't have room for a high 3 star top 10 Virginia prospect on THIS particular team. Not buying it.
You're better than this.
Cole beck's scholarship in 2022 has nothing to do with mekhai white's in July of 2023
Also benji gosnell is a tight end lol
Oh really? Cole Beck- who had 4 springs to prove he could run a route- being on the 85 is not indicative of the lack of talent in the program? I respectfully beg to differ. If there is room for a guy that can't play, there is room coming off a 3-8 season with a plus 100 offense 2 cycles later for a talented top 10 type Va kid. I will die on this hill. Buzz Williams agrees with me. Who gives a fuck who is on scholarship? I am going to go get my guys, ballers, players. That's what big time teams do. Cut the 5th safety if you have to.
Clearly you do since you havent havent shut up about cole beck since 2018ish, even when he was on track and even now that he's not on scholarship any more and more so can't even share a roster with Mekhai White (because thats how eligibility works). It's like Cole Beck is the Moby Dick to your Ahab. You keep talking about White on "this team" (in reference to last year's team), but he cant even join until next year's team!
A lot can change between now and signing day and the signs point to the class being pretty full at this point.
Oh my precious scholarships... Cole Beck... my fucking point has been valid since 2018. And it's valid now. I know that you have noticed that we have sucked for 3 years on the field. You are a fan. You see how fucking bad we are. But now, each scholly is so precious (see above for my cynicism around that) we can be picky now on a kid that would have led us in receiving the past 5 years. Humor me just a little bit.
Yeah sorry cole beck is not a valid talking point for the 2024 roster composition
It's not. the final 24 scholarship break down will be 100% legit, correct? We will revisit then and I will circle back to my ORIGINAL point. The kirby smarts of the world aren't concerned, they take the best players they can- especially when a unit sucks. So I will stand down and revisit who is on the 85 in 24. We shall see
Not sure the evidence supports that.
That's not nice!
How bad someone was on the roster last year should have zero to do with who we take in the future. It should be based on positions of need and relative strength of the recruits who are leaning towards tech. If we need three receivers, get commitments from 3, and there's a fourth that is marginally better than the others, you have to weigh taking them against other positions of need (since he's only marginally better than the current recruits), and not on whether he is better than someone we had on roster the prior year.
Unless you're saying there might be a guy on the roster who is substantially worse than a recruit. Given the roster turnover we had, I would guess Pry told the guys who weren't potentially P5 starters, he probably told them that. Plus, at least specifically to receiver, we picked up a number of guys from the portal, so we have young talent and guys who will hopefully be immediate contributors, so, to me, it still looks like you weigh how much you'd need White given how many guys we picked up vs any other positions of need.
You are correct. Being 3-8 last year and a plus 100 offense should dictate where we spend our scholarships. On ballers I would guess. but hey, I'm not Brent Pry. I just hope the team shows that we are so talented that no scholarship is wasted as we go 9-3. Win/Win for everyone.
At this point I think we need to be using 'ships for OL. That group is in dire straights. With Hanson likely out we're going to be in a world of hurt this year. That's the one unit I'm most worried about
I hate to say it because he's a local kid, but if Hanson is going to be out all year for medical issues we should ask him to go ahead and retire so we have another scholarship. He has been downright dreadful most of the time. We have to have some younger guys that can step in and provide that level of production
DC's right though... You don't stress how you're gonna recruit the state and then pass on a top 10 VA talent if he wants to be here and you can find space for him. No matter how full the WR room might be. Make them fight for PT and after a year let go the worst WR we have or another position player that won't see the light of day.
Bradshaw was a .8611. Link
It's not about White per se, it's a principle of not taking a top 10 in state guy at a premium position that we are not talented at. Not going to speak for DC here, but I know that scholarships are limited, the position room is full, and that this years VA class isn't as good as some past making 10 an arbitrary number. But passing on an in-state WR of that potential in this day and age of college football and the state of our program seems illogical and raises alarm bells for me.
But we are talented at the position... that's my point. There's 5 players with a higher ranking than White, 2 players with a similar ranking, and 2 players who have seen the field and are known quantities. Are we really going to mess up the balance of the roster to get a guy who would be between the 5th and 10th best receiver on the team?
By the end of the cycle he could be the 3rd highest on that list though. Maybe it messes up some balance this year and he doesn't see the field, but idgaf about this year, I care about 2025. Will we have given ourselves a chance at having good receiving corp by then or were we protecting the spots of FCS transfers and Tucker Holloways?
Look it's really not an argument of whether we *should* take him, just that we can't say we *shouldn't* take him if that makes sense. That's what I have a problem with in this discussion.
in this thread: people looking at 2022's wide receiver room to justify why we absolutely need to be taking a recruit who will at earliest play his first snap for the hokies in 2024
Me in this thread:
Ftfy
what on earth are you reading that this is your takeaway about the discussion happening here
the "argument" for why it's not crazy to think he's not a take at this point has literally nothing to do with the 2022 wr room
In what world is the default framing that we shouldn't take a 4 star top 10 player in VA. The burden of proof is on me saying we should take him? I would think it's on those saying we shouldn't, and they need something better than "numbers". (We had numbers at WR last year, still brought in 7 new guys this year.)
This staff is FLIPPING the roster. That means getting more talented players on the roster at the expense of the less talented. If the eval says we don't take him that's OK, but it might be a better insurance policy for if he ends up killing it somewhere else, to take him for a spot that *most likely* will be open next offseason anyway
The burden of proof is on you to show me where someone said we shouldn't take White because of the 2022 WR room, bc that's what you indicated above and it makes literally no sense.
Yes we are flipping the roster. No you can't decouple the roster churn that already happened from the decisions in front of us right now.
This isn't difficult. We are in times of unprecedented roster turnover, but also roster constraints are important and the staff needs to navigate them and that means making tough decisions. When it's a matter of choosing to walk a player who is currently on the roster as a Hokie or turning down a commit because the class filled up, it's a rock and a hard place.
The eval says he's good enough to play, but not good enough for us to hold a roster spot for him that would otherwise go to an OL from the portal, the number 1 player in state, or a proven player on the roster.
Dude's a low 4-star. He's good. But there will be three more Mekhi Whites in VA next year.
Pretty much.... nobody is saying that we absolutely shouldn't take him in the '24 (edit: class)
It's just that the staff is in a position where they feel comfortable slow playing it to see how it all shakes out.
Since you're editing without saying what what youre editing: there's how long until signing day? There's a whole season between now and signing day. Youre suggesting staff hedge by taking him now (which guarantees attrition later). Whereas staff is taking a wait-and-see approach. If the spot that "most likely will be open next offseason" does open up because of a transfer or a medical retirement, nobody here is saying they don't want White or Taylor to fill it.
Okay so I ran the numbers and we have way fewer open spots than I initially realized.
Breakdown:
1 free scholarship (presumably going to Wimbush next season so that equals out)
8 seniors leaving (I assumed it would be more)
8-18 losses to the transfer portal, by my math
Total: 16-26 free spots next season. I assume the actual number will be around 22. That leaves 3 spots for the '24 class and 3 for the transfer portal next season. (Although it really could be less with that. All of the obvious wash outs only gets us to 16).
With 3 spots 2 would definitely be reserved for Chris Cole and a good OL prospect. The last one would either go to OL, a high floor DE or a top talent that would be considered regardless of position.
Cole is a take if we have 92 players on scholly. fact. So the numbers will work
Take them all. Competition will lead to the portal being our friend. The big boys do it, if we want to get back to being competitive, tech will do the same. Pry must follow up with wins and coaching up talent. Otherwise, we will stay a joke to the recruits
100% all day every day. Buzz Williams. Calipari. They don't back off of anyone they want because they are out of scholarships. Pry can simply politely ask someone to transfer- like he's done many times already... those "difficult conversations" he eluded to yesterday in his presser. We have been very mediocre for a decade. Recruit over players, stretch NIL rules, get the best/fastest/meanest athletes in Virginia and win again. please
They always do.
Doesn't matter, there will be attrition. If the recruit can play, we should take them.
#TheNumbersAlwaysWorkout
This is taking attrition into account though.
You think Pry will/should run off 5+ players in last class? Or multiple players with game experience that could be in the two deep?
Pry is not going to run off anyone he thinks can play for us. He is going to run off 5th year guys fuente brought in, guys that aren't producing, guys that can't physically compete with Pitt and BC. The guys he should be running off. Big time teams in this day and age don't hold onto the romance that if you give Johnny a scholarship out of high school, you must keep him on the roster for 5 years, regardless if he can play at this level or not- that is out the window today if you want to win. Fans need to lose that romance too- along with rooting for UVA and UNC kids that we once "recruited" lol- they are trying to make our program irrelevant. hello. This is the new age of college football. play accordingly
DC -- i appreciate your presence around here and your willingness to speak your mind and your desire for VT to win.
but some of the comments in this thread from you just make me wonder where you've been since the last football season ended??? Between the 22 transitional class, the 23 class, the 24 class, and the portal, the roster will be almost entirely flipped from what Pry inherited -- and the players you're advocating to run off have already been mostly run off. Yes there could be some more, and there likely will be. But we're about to be in August '23 fall camp, not in November '22 after losing consecutive 1-pt games to NCST and GT. Everything you're saying is perfectly valid 9 months ago but it's not 9 months ago.
The "5th year fuente seniors" are who exactly? and do they even have eligibility next year? Take a scroll through Hokiesports roster and see how bottom heavy we are. So many of the players JR and older eligibility-wise are players we brought in from the portal this past offseason. Alan Tisdale is out of eligibility after this year. Jesse Hanson medically retired. Pollard, Fuga, Kendricks, Peoples are serviceable at worst and assets at best (People was All-ACC hm last year).
never thought i'd see the day where you would be advocating for continuous attrition at a high rate, but there is something to be said for allowing a player to make it through at least a season before you walk them. Every single player currently (today, July 27 2023) slated to be on scholarship for the '24 season is either a) a part of the '24 class and still in high school, b) a part of the '23 class and hasn't seen a season yet, c) a player Pry & co specifically added to the team from the portal for the 23 season, or d) a player Pry & co have evaluated for a season and specifically didn't walk after one year.
That's not to say nobody else will or should get walked -- it's just to say that you're suggesting something that has largely already happened as if it hasn't happened and it's a new idea and all you have to go on is 3-8
I am more - much more OK- with attrition in this situation- new coach, terrible old coach, small not particularly talented roster overall- this is attrition any fan can get behind. The attrition that I bitched about on here in the past was one guy- Mook Reynolds- bringing the whole program to a grinding halt, and Tim Settle - a huge, agile DT declaring early and it also crashes the whole program. That kind of attrition sucks because it brought us to out knees because the roster composition and culture sucked. Turning over the last guys roster is necessary in this case.
Great, glad you agree with the remaining 97% of my comment 🤝
We're so close to this thread reaching 1 word width on my big monitor.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!
I really want to utilize multisyllabic vocabulary in order to ensure the greatest expression across multiple lines
via GIPHY
Can't end it without a Cole Beck reference.
We're in uncharted territory folks
If you can't beat'em, join'em
I cant see. Halp
Alexa, what does approaching an infinite boundary look like?
Also in this thread: People like me wanting Tech to take a Top 10 VA player that goes to the same high school his daughter will start at this fall.
#KG2VT #WhatDoesTheFoxSay
We scored 19 ppg last year.
Again, not sure why everyone is obsessed with giving White a committable offer when (a) he previously had a committable offer, and chose not to commit because he thought he could land at Michigan, and (b) is (at best) going to marginally improve the receiver room.
Mostly we are tired of the offense sucking wind and mack fucking brown coming in taking who he wants a 4 hour drive from our campus. That's really the bottom line. Our offense sucks, and we are tired of it. White should be a take for that reason alone.
Mack brown hasn't landed a Virginia recruit this year?
DC wants to burn down any new goodwill created with the VA high school coaches by pulling a scholarship offer from a commit ... or he wants us to play 15 receivers, I can't tell.
This seems like a win. Coaches communicated the boat was filling up, and then it did. In the future recruiters can point to when we ran out of seats in similar situations.
Also, do we even know for a fact that all of this is true, that he no longer is a take? Or is all of this noise on pure assumptions and rumors?
Lol, I'm going with assumptions and rumors - it's still the off-season! Here's the facts:
While this is true, I'd argue that even though our wr room was in relative poverty, the bigger problem was the qb room. This offense, at the end of the day, is going to depend on the qb. If he can't get the ball to the playmakers there isn't much of a point having (let alone squabbling over) playmakers.
We need OL and QB for everything else to work. We could recruit 10 wrs for all I care but it won't matter a lick if the qb doesn't have the time or the ability to get them the ball
One could also just as easy argue the opposite - when receivers can't get separation, and RBs aren't a real threat, then the QB has to hold the ball longer, which means the OL has hold off pass rush longer, OR the QB has to make an amazing play (scramble or throw the ball into a tight window).
I really do believe that the offensive failures were a team effort. It was the opposite of 'synergy' - instead of a bunch of players feeding off each other's strengths to raise the level of the team, everyone fed of each other's weakness to lower the level of the team.
While I don't think Wells is an amazing QB, I don't think we know how good he actually is, just because he was so handcuffed last year. I think if we had peak Tyrod, this would be at best a 7 win team (including a hypothetical win over a UVA team that we did not play).
We need roster management but I agree that IF we think White is legit then he is most definitely a take.
I remember when I first started following VT football close enough to actually look closely at the roster (Beamer Glory Years) I wondered why it was always 75% freshmen and sophomores; Then I figured out that if you don't cut it after a couple years you are kindly asked to look elsewhere. That's nothing new. Looking 2 years down the road at how many "x" position players we will have is a moot point. A lot of them won't be here. Happens everywhere and we stunk at wr last year.
To flip the argument of too many similar rates wrs... if we have 12-14 mid 80 caliber recruits you can't convince me they are all showing promise and we can't be honest and tell a couple of them they need to look elsewhere if they want to play football. I'm sure the coaching staff sees a couple young guys already that aren't going to pan out, plus the upper classmen that have more eligibility but aren't seeing the field.
With all that said, we only see ratings as very few have seen minutes in a Hokie uniform. I'll trust the coaches as to evaluate the needs.
I'm just saying we've addressed the WR room pretty well. I'm way more concerned about our offensive line and defensive line in the future. If it is true that there is limited room left in this class and we have DL and OL guys of a similar caliber as White targeted for these scholarships, I'd rather use them there.
Sidenote: I'm actually more concerned that this appears to be the 2nd class in a row we aren't signing a TE.
I agree on all points
Watson, Wittke, Drones, and Belfort don't count?
We picked up Zeke Wimbush last class.
He was either a PWO or a greyshirt. Can't remember which.
Edit: Bitter broke it down here. https://www.thekeyplay.com/comment/reply/23006/1175259. Looks like he doesn't hit our scholarship numbers until 2024.
The problem is we haven't seen Felton, Lane or any of the Freshman play in O&M so I'm not sold one way or the other on the actual talent we will have on the field.
I agree that if White happens to turn out better than Adams and Wiggins, that's a horrible look on the staff because they have chosen to go with these two over the others. But we cant just have 14+ WR's on board and not fill out the rest of the roster properly.
The only way we have 14 receivers at the start of next season is if Felton, Lane, Lofton and Gosnell are all reliable contributors that expect to get big playing time. Then on top of that Bradshaw is better than all 4 new receivers AND none of the new receivers switch positions or transfer because they can't play at this level.
I would expect at least 2-3 guys to leave in which case including White we'd have either the same amount or one less scholarship receiver than this season
Hearing anything about OL's?
Roster problems will be fixed with attrition. The portal will be our friend. There are receivers on our roster from last year that were not great. They will hit the portal.
Keep logging on to see 10+ new comments...
it almost makes me miss the era of separate threads for news and discourse
I preferred it. Even with the frustration of the people who couldn't keep it separate.
Hey! This belongs in the discourse thread
Xayvion Bradshaw was mentioned above, which reminded me that Dwight Galt listed him as one of the most dynamic athletes on the team during the Sons of Saturday podcast. I didn't recall him standing out as a recruit so I looked him up. Came across this analysis from Irish Breakdown from when ND was recruiting him. The 9 min video at the top of the article is worth the listen, but analysis of XB starts at about the 5 min mark if you want to skip to that. In the video, Driskell says XB was way underrated and he would take him over the higher rated guy he mentions.
Damn fine praise! Now I am excited to see what he can do on the field!
X gon give it to ya
He wasn't highly rated but most here felt that he was an electric player based on his film.
he's a skilled player and a super talented athlete... but he was way too skinny. He enrolled at something like 155lb. at 6 feet tall. For reference as a college freshman I was 5-8 155 and was super super skinny.
Hopefully he's been putting on good weight during his RS year.
I'm currently 5-8 160ish - and I'm not a big guy. 6-0 155 is a bean pole
Chiming in as a fellow 5'8" 160ish person, 6'0" 155 is tiny.
Brandon Banks played for the NFL franchise that represents DC for a couple years at 5'7" 150 but was strictly a return specialist and spent a few years in the CFL. I'm sure this guy is a good athlete but he'll need a lot of time in D2 and the weight room to stick in P5 football.
Or he could eat somewhere the food stays with you instead of causing a blowout. Hell, I lost weight from eating primarily at D2. It was like bulimia except your food was bad at following the GPS
My feelings opening this thread.
Good one. It sure is right on time for the season to kick off. People arguing for the sake of an argument
That's all some people do on here. Contrarian just to be contrarian. It's tiring.
No we don't.
Yes we do.
YES. We do
I wonder what Cole Beck thinks about this debate.
If he doesn't like it, he can always run away. Football skills or not, that boy is FAST.
I mean dcwilson DID say "Cole is a take if we have 92 players on scholly. fact. So the numbers will work"
And I'm not even joking! He literally said that!
/Ducks
I think he was referring to Chris Cole.
Is Pollard playing this year?
Cole Beck is too busy being declared the fastest white guy ever to care what some internet warriors think of him
Just another day in the off season...
I think we are comfortably in triple digit comments directly related to whether or not Mekhai White is a "take."
I especially love it when the comments get down to an inch wide on the phone!
Hell, they got down to an inch wide on my desktop!
Edit: Time to lock that subthread, methinks.
plsThank you.
Down to 1/2 cm on my 25"diagonal screen
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Is it August yet?
Just who is this Mekhai White guy?
Thank you, these are the comments I sometimes have to read during a rough work day.
Can we just shut this shit down early and try again on Tuesday?
What'd y'all think of the new episode?
Exactly what I expected from the first episode on Hulu
Looking at the narrow comments above, and quickly closing this thread out:
via GIPHY
To all of ya'll postin' non recruiting mumbo jumbo...
JK...
But seriously...
Not even going to try and find this is the mess above. Chris Cole just got his first CB to Georgia.
I believe he doesn't intend to declare until signing day though so as of now CBs don't mean much. Unless he changes his mind of course.
I'm cool with a guy wanting to get a ring or two while trying to crack the two deep. Cole picking Georgia would suck but it wouldn't bother me all that much. As long as he isn't going to UNC or Penn State or somewhere like that, I'm ok.
I'm cool with everyone at VT getting a ring too.
It won't work🥺
??? Cole?
Nah a class of 25 visitor it could be tho
The pitch won't work?
Anything extra to go on here?
I have a sense that the above is referencing a '25 prospect who happens to have a family member that plays for VT.
I don't like that
Pry Signals up... Who dat?
Going to absolutely laugh my head off if it's Mekhai White
Looks like Web Davidson
Discussion thread! https://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2023/july/29/24-ol-web-davidson-commi...
Alex Taylor to UNC
https://247sports.com/player/alex-taylor-46118490/
So anyone have an idea of how our scholarship count is looking for the 2024 season? Seems like the class of 2024 is filling up very quickly.
Well after we give the one to Mekhi White, it gets a little murky.
We can get to like 5 or 6 opens spots but it requires a lot of attrition. In fact even to get our 17 man class on campus several guys will have to hit the portal, and more than just the obvious wash outs
Looks like we might not be done
Not a bad way to end the weekend hopefully.
Kicking off the 2025 class early early
Watford?
Harris?
Williams?
Clatterbaugh?
Edwards?
Delane?
Got another one
3* QB. Kid has offers from Penn State, Texas, Miami, Colorado, Utah, Arkansas, Pitt, among others
This kid isn't a three star ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Is #TX2VT.....bak?
... It never left 😂
Fyi...Kristopher Jones just committed to Georgia. Might help us on the Chris Cole front? Who knows
Jones was already figured to be a Georgia lock. There was a 5 star that just flipped from Georgia to A&M, giving Georgia another LB spot, that might have bones us.
Nah uga apparently has room for 3 linebackers some how
Looks like another 25 might pop soon 😁
I hope it's the Offensive lineman from Christianburg. He probably gonna be a solid top 10 player in va for the 2025 class
First paycheck the house
second paycheck the insurance.
Kid can't be older than 16 and is already 6-8 and 300+. That's nuts. Pop is gonna need lifts in his cleats.
faheem delane? https://twitter.com/faheemdelane/status/1685796766300401664
Give me all the Good Counsel DBs plz