https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38191883/inside-virgini...
First thing that gets called out is a poor relationship between Ballein and Fuente.
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"It blows my mind as an institution we let it get to this point over petty bull crap. What should have happened in my mind is Whit should have gotten Coach Fuente and John Ballein in a room and said, 'Y'all better work this crap out. Find a frickin' way or we're all going to lose our jobs.' I don't think that ever happened."
Oof
Yep. Absolutely nothing positive from any of the three components (administration, coaches, or players) in this piece.
That was a tough read. Wow. I only leave with more questions than I already had. Also, no mention of turkey bacon?
Hokie Hangover pointed out it was almost 4 years, to the day, since that article came out. I think they said that one was august 15th.
I respect Fuente for not making himself available for this article.
Fuente, who declined to comment for this story,
True, but by the sounds of it he could have used it as an opportunity to further expose how poorly things were run when he came to Bburg. Part of it was self-preservation and his aversion to attention, but part of it may have been respect for some people in the AD's office.
That would have done him zero good. He would only look worse by blabbing. He keeps his mouth shut, let's everyone else talk about how messed up it is and then gets himself an OC position in a few years. Or Wiggins gets him a Nick Saban home for tattered coaches position.
That's what he needs. He seems like he'd be happy being an analyst.
To me, the fact that he declined to comment indicates he will be looking to get back into coaching sooner than later
Smart move by Fuente. He was paid millions, zero people on earth sympathize with him. So he had nothing to gain by commenting. Smart move.
What's he gonna say? "Yeah it was tough but I also did a poor job myself..."
That's probably the best thing he could say, honestly.
Why comment on a story you had your agent commission?
I'm not convinced Fuente (or his agent) has that kinda sway at ESPN - Fuente certainly doesn't come out of this piece looking nearly as bad as Whit or Ballein but I don't think it was commissioned on his behalf at all
You'd hardly need sway to convince ESPN to run an article like this. Controversy drives clicks. If CJF's agent came to them with a scoop, they'd have to have a good reason NOT to run with it, not the other way around. Not saying this happened, but just that it's not a question of sway.
You don't think this would've come out earlier, say when Fuente still had a shot of remaining VT's HFC, if that were the case?
Why would he want to stay? He got paid millions to not deal with that shitshow. It's not like the situation would improve for him just because it all came out. I'm not saying the article is wrong, just that Fuente may have an interest in airing that dirty laundry out, maybe especially if he doesn't have to deal with the fallout anymore.
Because maybe (in his mind) if the landscape improved, he could have had a chance at being successful at VT. But solid point about trashing the program from afar in the rear-view mirror.
Yeah... you have to be careful with pieces like this. Fuente comes out of this looking arguably the better. These kinds of articles are sometimes written as a result of a lot of favors being done behind the scenes. Sports journalism is full of access trading favors. It would be interesting to know who represents Fuente and who else is rep'd by that same agency. Maybe Justin is looking for another job in a year or two and needs to shine up his past a little. Maybe if Andrea wants to be able to talk to higher profile coaches for exclusives she gets asked to drop a story looking into the administration side of things. Just saying.
The timing on this article is wild. Why is it coming out a week before Pry's second season? How did it take 20 months to to this leg work that's mostly been out in the open for a long long time? I'm cynical AF when it comes to ESPN covering leagues they have a financial interest in.
TL;DR just because Fuente didn't comment doesn't mean that his interests aren't being represented. This is how a lot of PR works these days.
Less cynical view: Probably because that's when general interest in college football is ramping up, and without actual games yet, there are likely to be more eyeballs on the story.
I agree with this.
I'm seeing a lot of "I don't trust ESPN" but frankly, we're not a big enough brand right now for this to have some crazy ulterior motive IMO.
Things inside the athletic department, and especially in the football program have clearly been bad for a long time and something got on Adelson's radar which lead to a juicy story. I don't see how ESPN as a company benefits by a 'hatchet job' article about VT.
ugh
Everyone knew Hooker was the right guy. It was so obvious.
I am still 100% convinced that Hooker working with Turner in the slot with lots of targets, looking completely outside the scope of the offense, against Liberty was a players revolt, at least by part of the offense. It was so out of the norm in terms of how the offense operated that it looked like they were playing in the backyard. The offense played well that game even though they lost. Then the wheels fell off, possibly because Fuente put Hooker on an even shorter leash from that point forward.
This is a bit of bombshell. Reflects very poorly on Whit. As a long time supporter and believer in Whit, I still support him, but i don't at all think as highly of him as I once did.
Also makes me wonder if CJF could actually be successful somewhere else, if not handcuffed.
While it does, Fuente didn't do himself any favors with his approach to recruiting or with his personality and personality management of players.
Sure, but now it seems clear that it wasn't JUST that.
There was structural dissension.
We know CJF can be successful elsewhere because he was successful at Memphis, which is a very tough job. However, success at one level, or within a collection of one school's circumstances and requirements, doesn't always translate to the next level, or a different set of circumstances. At the P5 level, he would probably need to be closer in proximity to places where has has more relationships at the HS level, and most critically, he'd probably need to hire a staff of above replacement level recruiters rather than his cohort of friends.
I think he got some mentions for the SMU job, which seems like a solid fit for him imo.
I think very highly of the work he did at Memphis. The question I have is if he can succeed at a P5 school. Could he succeed at a B12 school?
I do too, but it's tempered a bit by a school with zero expectations. Easier to look great if you simply aren't a dumpster fire.
some dudes are just out of work because of entitled children (not just players, but also employees whose input seemed vital to the stupid ESPN gal's article) and their inability to managed entitled children and the portal... coach JF is sharp as a tack, principled AF... just so seriously unwarm.... I like the guy alot, would go to great expense to host him anytime, but putting him in with the portal and today's kids... just not a good idea
hiring standards need to change.... recruiting standards need to change.... less qualified, harder working, more integrity entitled 4 stars whether players or prospective employees.... uva is calling
What were the stronger handcuffs? The handcuffs administered from above (Ballein)? Or the handcuffs administered from within (Cornelson)?
"handcuffs" is trending on TKP
Tough to say. There are rumors he wanted to ax both coordinators after bud's final season, but those are just rumors (although BAG did confirm (for lack of a better term) the Barry Odem denial)
I think that's one of the things that angered me the most about the article. The personality conflicts between Ballein and Fuente, yeah I can see that happening. There were bound to be some personnel headaches moving on after such a long-tenured coach. The difficulties in anticipating how to scale VT support up to a rapidly-shifting Power 5 landscape? I think that would affect a lot of programs. But the outright turning down a former HC and proven DC in Odom (who was immediately afterwards hired by Arkansas as DC, and is now UNLV's HC), one that could help Fuente improve as a HC while providing quality defensive coordinating, and forcing Fuente to go with a completely unproven DC in Hamilton........damn. For as much as we loved Hamilton as a player, he had NO business jumping straight up to DC at a Power 5 program. That was a stretch.
Would we have been much better defensively in 2020 with Odom? Arguably yes, though probably who knows due to COVID issues. Would we have been much better defensively in 2021? Absolutely yes, and Fuente may have been a much better head coach under Odom's tutelage. (Though prolonging his tenure may have not been the best thing in the long run.)
Bottom line, Odom is a much better defensive coach than Hamilton, and if he was truly available to us, then Whit should not have blocked his hire.
Correct. Great person, great hokie, the players liked him, Bud endorsed it, but should have been a position coach first. Or a co-DC
he was a position coach first
There was rumblings that when Wiggins left there was no one that would challenge Corn or Fuente. Odom would have. Odom had the history of working with them before, Odom had the street cred to do that. Odom could have picked apart the offensive game plan by simply running a defense to easily stop them.
Rumors that Galen Scott filled that role as well. Having Wiggins, Scott, Foster, and losing all of them in 2(?) seasons was not helpful.
the only hadcuffs were in the sociopath's delusional daydreaming during the "contact" she had with VT "representatives"
Lol this is just head shakingly bad leadership and mind boggling decision making. Penny wise and pound foolish doesn't begin to capture the short sided thinking and endemic provincial myopia described in the article... if what's in the article is accurate.
In the third paragraph is already the first lie that Pry lead the Hokies to the first losing season in 30 years. Fuente led the Hokies to a losing season in 2018, 2020, and 2021.
True, but this does not invalidate direct quotes from former staffers, former players, and current players like Ali Jennings.
Not arguing it does. But I find it disingenuous that it states that Pry led us to the first losing season in 30 years when Fuente did it 3 times in his 6 years.
A lot of article is slanted to make the whole program look bad. A lot of the improvements had been in plans for years while being constructed for Fuente and Pry.
I guess it is me trying to be an optimist.
I think it's the fine but significant difference between "losing season" and "losing regular season"
Again Fuente...
You know, you're right and I'm a ding dong
COVID year doesn't count remember
Agreed. Reporters need stories. Everyone at ESPN needs a story. Place is literally falling down. Sacking the hell out of all their big names. She has an opportunity if she can seize it (by writing trash hitpieces and getting eyeballs). She'll be on a sportshow with all the bigmouths. Will any of us hold it against her and ESPN?
I haven't read the whole thing, but a serious reporter, would have asked whether the quality of the interview she was getting was sufficient to make ESPN level stupid generalizations. A football player worried about AC at VT. Please, we'll pay for your rental vans to Charlottesville, where the HC will love to have you.
It wasn't a trash hit piece. Just because it reflected poorly on VT doesn't mean it's 'trash'
Exactly.
We had a bad experience.
All we can do now is put it behind us and move forward.
Seems to me Pry is the right guy for right now. I wish we'd given him a better hand to start off with, but you play the cards you're dealt.
I applaud the optimistic view here. But Fuente wasn't the only issue. Therefore, Pry isn't the only guy to count on. Whit and Ballein have a lot of dirt on their hands too. If they don't change, it won't matter how right Pry is. It won't work.
"I haven't read the whole thing", and you also referred to Andrea Adelson as the "stupid ESPN gal"
Adelson is one of ESPN's best reporters, and this is a story that was clearly well researched and sourced. We look like amateurs but that's not the reporters fault, she's doing her job, very well I might add.
Yes. Don't shoot the messenger for telling the truth.
correct, but 2022 was the first non-COVID regular season losing record in a long time...
Pennywise and pound foolish defines a lot of VT. Ever tried to park on campus as a visitor?
Summer before senior year of high school I did a tour at Tech. First time I had been on campus while actually considering attending. Got a bullshit parking ticket. If I wasn't already a massive Hokie fan, that might have made me look elsewhere.
yea I really don't know why there aren't timed visitor slots or something like that. But also parking in Blacksburg just sucks.
There's likely a good bit of truth to it, but perhaps a good bit of hyperbole as well. It would have taken a pretty unique individual to overcome all of those circumstances. By all accounts he was spending a lot of time off the field lobbying for better facilities and more resources. Thats 1) a big distraction from the actual football, and 2) a perpetual uphill battle he had relatively little control over. Can't blame him for seeing that as an important way to spend his time though.
And as poorly as it reflects on Whit, it also reflects very poorly on someone unnamed in the article- Jim Weaver. Whit inherited that infrastructure and you could argue he was making chicken salad out of chicken turds.
yeah, you dont like to speak ill of the dead but, in hindsight, the whole approach of "football ticket sales, and its current reputation will carry us indefinitely" really reared its ugly head
To that end, Stegar is responsible as well. Weaver did not have the skill set to compete in the college sports arms race. By keeping Weaver employed for so long, Stegar was implicitly saying that he no interest in engaging in that.
Just FYI
Jim Weaver did a lot of good for Tech, navigating the dysfunctional Big East (seriously go back and look at how schizo that league was and how it was managed), keeping the program in the black and ultimately navigating VT into the ACC. The tragedy was that once we took the step to the bigger and much better conference we didn't have the vision for how to continue to level up the program and continue to build on an unexpectedly solid lead.
Tech came into the ACC and wrecked house for a long time without a meaningful increase in investment. And eventually that kind of managing not to lose will cost you in this type of game. Then we were flat-footed when the current money arms race started, and by the time we understood the game we were in it was too late.
There was an increase in investment, most of it went to sports other than football. VT was behind the ACC in almost everything and baseball and basketball were the most glaring. Since we joined the ACC though, we built the Beamer Barn and renovated the locker rooms at least 3 times. People forget that we had to play catch-up to the ACC and 19 years on, I think we have. Time to let the cash cow back out to the field to eat.
We went to the ACC and wreck havoc in football because the ACC was bad a football. It was easier to win the ACC in the mid 2000s than the Big East in the 90s. There is a reason that FSU dominated in the ACC, and they have a couple of rocky years and VT easily steps in. FSU was the one treating to leave without meaningful football expansion. We also weren't prepared in any other sport where the ACC actually had good teams. Whit has had to pump money to all those teams to make them competitive.
I will say that after reading this article I wonder if some of the things I blame on Weaver weren't his doing. If other people were holding VT back when it should have flourished even more and Weaver just let it happen because we're winning and donors are happy.
So....there are some voices on other sites who dance around Ballein remaining a big part of the program as a problem, FWIW. Had never heard specifics other than an implied old guard/new guard thing, but this sort of points into some more specifics there.
But it also says he was moved into the power position in 2017 and out of it in 2018.
I mean, he's still an Executive Associate AD and his daughter is director of on campus recruiting, so it's not like he isn't still involved in aspects of the program (even if his bio claims he is responsible for non-football programs).
Whit needs a fall guy. Whit doesn't know how to run a large scale football operation. Ballein is that guy. Today.
I didn't realize the trashing of our program was so much more of a three pronged approach of disfunction between Fuente, Whit and Ballein
Don't have time to read the article yet but when Fu wanted to bring Oden in to be DC but we wouldn't/couldn't pay him but then we brought in Hamilton with zero experience I knew we were handcuffing him. I had a feeling it was a symptom of a bigger problem and perhaps he wasn't solely responsible for the downfall.
Whit should have called that dumb ass Fuente bluff and packed his shit up and drove him to Baylor when he had the chance.
Whit just needed a set of balls.
I love the fact that they said Fuente turned down Baylor to stay here. They didn't actually offer him the job according to all reports.
What I've gathered from various sources is that Baylor did offer Fuente the job, but with conditions on the staff he would hire (e.g. he couldn't bring his entire VT staff with him like he wanted to). That was a deal breaker.
"but with conditions on the staff he would hire (e.g. he couldn't bring his entire VT staff with him like he wanted to)."
Sounds like Baylor had someone with common sense looking at a lot of the Fuente people and knowing they were terrible.
Baylor- Who do you plan to hire as OC?
Fuente- I've got a guy with me here that is the best.
Baylor-
Also - ESPN can screw off for dropping this story 2 weeks before the start of the season, nearly 2 years after Fuente was fired. What's the point? We're already a bottom third team in a rapidly declining conference, we hardly get coverage anymore anyway and now ESPN, who controls our shitty TV deal, is like "let's drop this big expose to get clicks". Screw off man, just freaking screw off.
I remember hearing about this article possibly dropping last summer, but it was too close to Fuente bring fired for people to be willing to talk about it.
But even still, they only got like 4 players even on the record 🤷🏻♂️
No doubt. ESPN talking shit about the program really helps recruiting
ESPN certainly has their reasons and they're probably based on clicks and some nefarious Mickey Mouse BS, but I hope this lights a fire under the admin and ADs ass to get their shit together.
It's a pretty well written article. Assuming they did interview 30 people within the program (as stated in the piece), then it took time to get quotes and string it all together.
Espn is not conspiring against us. In fact, it's nice to know they are still capable of doing actual journalism.
If anything, this piece buys Pry time with our fanbase.
Agreed.
Sunshine is the best disinfectant. If anything, this should help Pry exorcise any lingering demons.
Thank you for this. I cringe every time I see someone talk about exercising demons, so I appreciate you getting this right.
Hey demons need to be healthy, too!
Gotta be jacked to toss furniture around at night
#TX2VT!!!
The article is not a very good look for Babcock's understanding how to run a football program. He has hired 2 coaches who were not so successful( Tuberville at Cincinnati and Fuente) and one who has yet to prove he can win games.
His job may get real hot if Pry doesn't turn things around.
Tuberville is having a lot of success these days, though...
In Babcock's defense, Tuberville went 9-4, 9-4 (won conference), 7-6, and resigned after his first losing season there at 4-8. Not exactly a huge failure as a football coach at least.
There's a lot of generals and admirals wishing he'd been a more successful coach.
A-freakin-men.
No A/C in dorms in the summer for players, coaches running a clothing drive to get gear for the players, stipend checks coming late/delivered to the wrong address, among other things noted in the article.
That is just straight up athletic department ineptitude. That is on Whit.
They shoulda filmed a season of damn Last Chance U at VT
The a/c in dorms is on the Beamer/Weaver/Steiger administration tbh. Multiple forms on campus began getting a/c before the athletic dorm(s) were even addressed.
Not like the dorms had AC when Frank was winning 10 a year and playing in BCS games. Lame excuse in my book.
Times change. You want to be competitive in recruiting, you gotta offer at least comparable amenities that the big dogs are offering.
I'm trying to think about the dorms that they are talking about here. Where on campus doesn't have AC anymore?!
Several. It's blacksburg. Most dorms are closed for the summer and by the time the fall semester starts its not typically THAT hot/humid. Fans for most kids are fine.
Class of 2015 grad and the large majority didn't have A/C when I was there. It was only new dorms plus a few older ones that houses kids in certain programs. Pritchard, OShag, Cochren(where most athletes were) were some of the biggest dorms and none had a/c. I think a lot if not most of those do now. Once you got past august it wasn't bad, and honestly the heat you couldn't control in the winter was way worse than the heat in the summer. Think we kept our window open all winter so we didn't melt to death.
freshman year we had to keep our window open in Thomas. Found out the hard way that coal dust would cover everything if you didn't take precautions. Ended up going with a box fan with a cheapo HVAC filter duct taped to it. But yeah, if you closed the window, you sweat the bed every night.
I was unfortunately put in Thomas hall my freshman year in 2010 and it was terrible. The rings on the windows from the coal dust was thick. Luckily my roommate and I appealed the rule that freshman had to be on campus and we moved out before the end of year to a townhouse in the CRC.
Just noting that the article is specifically talking about summer workouts, so weather past August doesn't really matter, in context
But it definitely explains why tech has dorms with no ac
It does, though I didn't see that asked
https://www.thekeyplay.com/comment/1206705#comment-1206705
It was asked as "where" but the tone is incredulous
It's crazy how you block things out...older me has no recollection of younger me struggling with the lack of AC in EAJ and OShag.
But yea wtf was athletics doing putting them in dorms with no AC for the summer 🤷🏼♂️
It has been almost 30 years and I still remember no AC on the fourth floor of Rasche Hall. I also remember sleeping with the top half of the window pushed down in January to try and keep the room in just the 70's... Yes, we were trying to heat the greater outdoors.
The other aspect is back in the "olden days" of the Quarter system (pre-1989?) air conditioning was less important since classes didn't start until the third week or so of September. Once VT switched to semesters the A/C units should have been there.
Confirm- my senior year was 87-88(fifth year there like many lol) and that year was the transition year with "early quarter system" that year-moved up three weeks or so from previous 3rd week September start and early to mid June graduation dates.
I still remember the winter of my second year at VT (1984/5) when I lived in Lee and the temp outside dropped to -18F (-30F up the road at Mountain Lake set the all time record low temp for VA). the steam heat never mad it up to our floor- the temperature in our room dropped to 45F and there was a quarter inch of frost on the inside of our window! Then two years later in our "heat included in the rent " apartment in Terrace View, we would sit in the living room playing cards wearing just shorts in the dead of winter.
Also remember one spring where in April there were three weeks in a row where the high on Saturday was upper 70s; cooled off Sunday and Monday; and snowed on Tuesday! Three straight weeks of that!
O'Shag class of 2017. We had no AC and the smell of the fans pulling in the cow shit from the pastures will never leave my nose.
In saying that I know O'Shag got a renovation a few years ago so that may no longer be the case.
i have never cringed so much in my life while reading something jfc
Jesus the whole university looks like shit with this article, academic administrators, athletic administrators, football coaches and staff, players, fans. It all reads like a horror story.
True - but I bet similar stories can be written about dozens of schools that haven't been good the last decade plus. Lots of shitty administrators out there in positions of power across colleges.
The article points to dorms, apparel deals, dedicated facilities, etc but none of those things went backwards from Beamer to Fuente. Beamer won with all those same "sandbags". Now one could argue that the competition improved on those things and we slipped behind, but over the short period that Fuente coached, we didn't go from top of P5 to bottom on of-field perks as we did with on-field performance.
The thing that changed the most from Beamer to Fuente were relationships. Maybe Frank had the same issues with gear that Fuente had, but knew which donor to call to get it covered. Frank could recruit VA because he knew the coaches and admin at the schools. Frank built up the goodwill to get things done his way and when he needed them. Fuente didn't seem to value relationships and thought he could succeed because he was smarter or had some superior plan. It all fell apart on execution and he blamed everything around the organization instead of looking at the folks that should have been putting his plan to work.
Yeah he was understaffed compared to the top 10%, but not compared to the teams that beat him year in and year out. Whit was too focused on advancing the overall department and didn't emphasize football enough, probably thought it was most ahead and could continue to thrive while he built up the rest, but Fuente didn't get out and hit the fundraising trail hard to help himself. The guy was a hermit and didn't use the resources available to him to the fullest.
I guess my consolidated thought is the article focuses to much on being salacious and some of the quotes come off as whiney and entitled and it paints Fuente as too much of a victim without presenting the other side of Fuente failing to capitalize on what he had and the improvements that were made while he was here.
Beamer had a downward trend going post 2011 also. Tech fell behind UVA, UNC and hell even today behind Cincinnati today in categories like pay and everyone just said and some people even today says "it's ok. Beamer won with fewer resources". It's not realistic. It's not college football in 1990 it's not even 2005 it's 2023 and we are trying to catch up to our peers much less get ahead of them.
I agree, but performance in recruiting and record slipped faster than amenities and salaries.
Beamer took his team to play at South Carolina in 1987, and was literally shocked at the walk through that South Carolina came out in matching sweat suits. Yes. So absolutely Beamer had to deal with that. Paterno was the one that convinced him to pursue a Nike deal at a coaching convention and couldn't believe Beamer didn't have one. So yeah. The biggest thing we gloss over in comparing Beamer to Fuente is that Beamer is a much better football coach- not even close. I'm talking X and O's too. Beamer knew all 3 phases of the game. He was a great defensive mind and knew that if you could run the football, you could pass the football. He is arguably the greatest college special teams coach of all time. So, let's not forget- he's simply a much better football coach. He won a ton of games he shouldn't have by keeping his team on an even keel, etc. I remember a game against Miami - who was coming in ranked highly and Tyrod was gimpy. Beamer said to Holly Rowe "this is a full speed game deal here tonight" - so he started Glennon and we won. He also lost games he should have won too, but in his prime- none were as embarrassing as the few short years Fuente was here. Simply a better "football" coach. Noone would dispute that
They might not have gone backwards, but they also didn't go forwards, while everyone else did.
True but that apparel deal was agreed to before Whit even started. We all know it probably should have been tossed out and started over. But a handshake had been made and that means something to a lot of people. Whit has been hampered by that deal even more so than Fuente. He has to stretch that pathetic deal over all his sports.
This is very reminiscent of that SI article about us that dropped a couple years back right before the season.
1. Ballein - smart dude- little gruff, but a nice guy, loves VT. Having said that, Whit you are an idiot. Ballein has never won a game, recruited a player or called a play. Let Fuente hire his own admin. Big Mistake. 2. I have railed on the Nike deal ad nausea on this site, and now I hope you all can see why. It's a bona fide joke, and it's on Whit. He botched it- 100%- and its the gift that keeps giving. 3. My son went to VT in 2015 and was housed in a dorm without AC. I brought him a window unit at Wal Mart in C Burg for 85 dollars. I was in the VTCC - lived in Rasche Hall for 4 years- never had AC- we made do with fans, etc. Point is, buy window units for the players, assholes. Spend a few grand, store them somewhere for the next summer. FFS. - I put that on Whit too. Now, as for Fuente- the multi million dollar football coach... at this level, this is the shit you have to fix and control if you want to win- you can't just call ball plays. That was his problem. He couldn't tell Ballein to fuck off.. He didn't have it in him, or he wasn't smart enough to realize that head coach of a P5 team is a lot less replaceable than the guy that books hotels and responds to the NCAA with bullshit. Whit wasn't going to fire you over him, my guy. Ballein should have been a non fucking factor- Saban would have assigned him to the club volleyball team at Bama if he didn't like him. If I was the head coach at VT, I would have told him to fuck himself if he got in my way. Now, had Fuente won a bit more, he probably would have done that- to be fair. All the recruiting and transfer shit is just hubris. Fuente never put the work in on that front. Simple. He wasn't interested in player relationships or talking to HS coaches. Never was.
Saban makes himself the tip of every spear, Fuente made excuses. Yes he had challenges, but that is what he is paid millions to overcome.
Correct. Fuente is a ball coach, not a leader. A leader doesn't allow Bud fucking Foster and one of his former players no less and a great DB coach to "clash" on offers. A leader doesn't let Wiles shit talk players. A leader doesn't lose to ODU by allowing 700 yards and not making a tackle in the second half. Fuente might be a decent play caller. He's not a great leader. Obs.
Nick Saban was the most supported coach in the country from an administrative perspective from the beginning of his time at Bama. Hardly a fair comparison
Because he demanded it, and had the foresight to see where recruiting was going. a 247 365 hunger games enterprise and he prepared accordingly.
Oh...
Welp, golly gee. If it's just that easy, then Fuente should have just asked for more.
He was so close to a natty, but he just didn't know this one small trick.
Damn, bud. If this were reddit, I'd buy reddit gold to Starry Award this comment and make it stand out (Joe Lanza, hint hint). But since it's not, I can only give you two additional legs.
That was always my biggest beef. His offensive system was good (but poorly called under BC.) But he was completely inept at addressing the challenges he could actually impact- player relationships, engaging fans (and generating revenue) etc. It wasn't like he was going out and selling his vision of where the program needed to go. Instead he sat hidden in the corner at Kabukis whispering to Vice while "ace recruiter" Bud Foster did all the talking to his two highest priority recruits that year. Fail.
There is plenty wrong in the AD leadership, but Fuente didn't do the least bit to try and mitigate any of those issues.
One thing that is being glossed over, that I hope this article puts to bed. Shane wasn't coming here. Shane did not want to come here.
Reads to me people told Shane - "yo, if you want it, we'll talk to Whit and try to make it happen" but Shane declined, since the conversation never happened.
I don't think Shane wanted to come here b/c he would constantly be under his fathers shadow here. They would talk about it every game and ask if he talks to his dad about what he would do and blah blah blah.
Shane wants to prove that he can run his own program and be successful on his own. Perhaps in 10 years or something if Shane is still doing well and we have moved on from Pry or whomever else he may come here when there is a large enough gap in time but I doubt it.
why? Why can we not have nice things?
on the flip side, bad press is still good press - if people are talking about VT and ESPN is publishing articles for "clicks" that means we still mean enough to garner the attention. Point out another 3-8 squad getting any kind of press like this. We matter.
I mean, it's the headline article on ESPN right now. Not the top NCAAF headline but ESPN's front page. Honestly, I love it.
Yeah, I mean all the shit rehashing aside, it ends on a hopeful note
See Onion's comment below. Yes, yes indeed. The hopeful note sets the stage nicely. Now let's pray the Hokie Gods are kind to Pry and Crew.
Onion haha, Orion you might need a shower.
LOL - It's what I get for typing without my cheaters on. Happens more than I would like to admit, but it does make for a few good chuckles from time to time.
I agree. I found it to be an interesting read with lots of insight I feel like was lacking before. But mainly it felt like that article was meant to get people looking at us again to witness us rising out of the ashes as a power to behold
Yeah, me too. I read this as "Pry inherited more of a shitshow than you know. Maybe that 3-8 record isn't the verdict on the coaching staff that you might worry it is." I feel like this is actually a pretty good backdrop for a coach who is constantly hammering the message "we are not where we want to be, but we are working on it."
Definitely not a good look for the administration, but every working relationship is a two-way street. I've worked with bosses that did great with me, but were a trainwreck with other coworkers. Other coworkers did not recognize how communication needed to happen so it devolved into micromanagement whereas I was more active: making my needs known, making sure he knew I knew what I was doing, making sure it was clear where I needed help/was stepping out of my scope of expertise, etc etc etc. So, I'm going to choose to be hopeful that Pry being on the other end of those relationships will make for significantly better results.
Thread tangent: Did you ever communicate these tips to your coworkers?
I did, but not really at the beginning. I didn't realize there was a difference in how they were functioning until they were comfortable enough to complain about it. I was in a team lead position. I ran the mechanical side of the engineering department and things went fairly smoothly with our VP of engineering. The team leads of electrical and software (and most of their workers) were the ones having issues. When they would complain about his management style, I'd share how it worked in our group and their response was just "or maybe he's just a bad manager..." or "well he just works differently with mechanicals because that's his background." What's funny is there were a couple of engineers in each group who responded better and their experience was better so it's not like my group was special or anything.
Unless we're multiplied by the speed of light squared, in which case, we energy.
This is what I come here for
This is just setting up the article in a couple years about how Pry turned the VT football program around and returned it to Top25 status with his ability to forge relationships, and perceptive ability to build on the past with modern P5 experience to invent the future.
(and I see what you did there with the "invent the future")
People who want things like building/structures changes to happen overnight have obviously never dealt with state level budgets and approvals. It's a long slow process.
Otherwise, it's a tough read, but there isn't anything there that can't be fixed.
ESPN's timing has to be calculated. They hold the keys to a lot of conference realignment. They control a lot of the narrative about how we are perceived.
BTW- who breaks into Merryman and steals weights during a pandemic? Aren't there cameras? HAS to be an inside job.
Yes, but there were also masks.
/duckas
Seriously. How does no one notice? Stealing a bunch of weights requires a heavy duty truck and multiple people making multiple trips with dollies and shit.
It's not like one dude knew where they were stored and every day he just walked away with a dumbell in each hand until the day when he finally had a full set.
Ha I like to think of someone doing dumbbell curls, looking around to make sure no one is around and slowly walking out still doing the curls while whistling with shifty eyes.
What's even odder to me is Kaleb Smith had said in a Podcast how the FB building was usually locked up by dinner time...
So..our players couldn't get in yet, somehow people managed to steal from the weight room?
This is Keystone Cops sorta stuff. Just a whole Department attitude of complete lack of care...and that has to be set from the top.
Maybe theres a reason it became locked after a certain time
It seems like VT as a whole had a hard time moving on from the Beamer Era. He was able to do more with less because of the person and coach he was. Staff were willing to take less to remain with him. Players were willing to over look diminishing facilties and less perks because of who Beamer was. Once he left all of the issues that his persona and legend were covering up boiled over. Not sure any coach would have been successful given the number of issues were being covered up.
The good news is that it appears the admin and university have learned from the mistakes made strides to fix them with the Pry hire and improvements to facilities/money invested in the program.
It seems that Pry is loved and respected by his players. That goes a long way. I think that is major reason Beamer was so successful. People are willing to put more effort for less money if they feel valued.
I think VT is on the right path. They learned a hard lesson and we all suffered through it, but now it is time to look forward to enjoying VT football again.
This is a great summation. If I were to choose a one word description of this article regarding environment, it would be "Toxic". Strong word? Yes, but like Psycho said, I'm not sure if any coach would have been successful in the major transitional mode the program was in at that time. DC states Saban would have. Agreed, he's the exception and possibly the only. But, we weren't going to get that caliber of a coach. Anywho, I think Whit's hind site 20/20 vision of just how hard it was to transition form Beamer to the next chapter probably lends some credit that no matter what, that next chapter was going to be some degree of a coiled smiling poo emoji.
I can live with the administration and coaches making mistakes as long as they recognize what they did wrong and learn from it.
I think we've covered over and over issues with Fuente--he simply didn't have the skills to be a successful HC at P5 level, but I think this article reflects much more poorly on Babcock.
If there were issues with Fuente and Ballein (which it seems everyone but Whit clearly knew of) it was his job to intervene in the situation. Sit them down and if Ballein was too tied to the "Beamer way"..you have to move him out. The quotes suggest that Ballein was behind the scenes potentially undercutting Fuente while Whit was either blissfully unaware or too detached to care.
Then the equipment issue just speaks to utter complacency. The "weights weigh the same," quote is awful...meanwhile he was allowing weights to be stolen??
Overall Babcock comes across as a mix between aloof and lacking competence, neither of which you want associated with your A.D.
Edit: improved grammar
Whit is aloof- can confirm. He is also looking for his next job. Keep that in mind
Well this article didn't do him any favors on that front
to be fair he moved Ballein away from the AD for Football role after only 1 year, so he wasnt just sitting on his hands the whole time
Yeah, but the quotes indicate that even though his title changed, he still had much pull within the Dept. and that his pull often opposed Fuente.
So you're left with people who are loyal to someone who has been there forever being caught in the middle. No way to run an organization and as the head of the organization, Whit bears tremendous responsibility for that.
half-way through this article... i need a drink... and my respect for Whit as a leader has crumbled.
ESPN murdered Whit. Holy fuck, before reading I thought this was going to be a feel good "Virginia Tech is turning the corner article now that Fuente is gone", but nope. ESPN sourced the hell out of this and made Whit look feckless, Fuente underserved, and the athletic department broke. That was a really tough read.
yeah, I'm with you. That read like a hit-piece
makes one wonder, with all the conspiracy-theorizing that goes on in CFB, if ESPN is uncomfortable with Whit for some reason
maybe voting against some PAC schools joining the ACC?
That's Sands and the BOV though isn't it? Maybe Whit has solved the GoR lol.
as Joe alluded to, this was very clearly well sourced, cited, quoted etc - this wasn't written in a week or two, even just verifying all the quotes/sources in the editing process would take a while. This started well before the PAC12 voting within the ACC.
Which could lead to, why did ESPN release it now?
That could be connected to what VT admin is doing that angers ESPN, per your comment
or it could just be released on a slow news day, given that today we're between WWC games, just one EPL game between minnows this afternoon, and preseason NFL not starting until tonight.
They could have looked elsewhere for a story. ESPN has the Bundesliga rights, and the first game of the season is today.
Kane's first Buli game.
The original Der Klassiker rivalry.
Plenty of storylines to cover if they gave one flying fuck about the media rights they bought.
At least Köln's upset of Dortmund will be nationally televised tomorrow.
Per CC at TSL, that article has been in the works for over a year; he first heard of it at the ACC kickoff before LAST season. So well before the PAC-X implosion of this off-season.
Same questions remain as why to release it on that particular day, but I imagine that question would be asked no matter when it was released, such a harsh read it was.
Do we really think that ESPN is all wrapped up in making sure Cal is in the ACC? I don't think they care
I was totally just shit sitting with this one. I think I read that VT was not one of the four that voted no, which is concerning in other ways.
It was my understanding they never called a formal vote. They have several that were adamant yes's (4 or 5), four that were adamant no's (NC State, FSU, Clemson, etc). The rest were playing it close to the chest and didn't reveal which way they were going to go.
Based on the fact that 7 schools (including Tech) admitted they were trying to find an out, I think the Prez didn't want to call a vote that was going to FAIL badly.
This matches the things I have heard on various podcasts and read on various message boards.
Unlikely its personal. Most likley its about clicks. Drama, gossip, speculation, that stuff always sell.
Also, like why rehash all this old shit at this point in the year, with the season around the corner and realignment talks likely ongoing. It sure as hell isn't a coincidence I bet
I'm in on this. It really feels intentional in some way.
Everyone has a motive. The piece very clearly tries to, at the very least, shine the light away from anything Fuente did wrong, but it was still far more effective and murdering Whit than building up Fuente.
Fuente slipped Andrea Adelson some of that buyout money to write a piece making it not look like his fault, lol? Maybe he is jockeying to get picked up somewhere this season, next off season
ORrrr
Some power donors have grown tired of Whit, sent some folks Adelson's way...tightened the leash on him
No way it's that. Because if there were some way to make sure he doesn't get picked up by another school, it's to out his deficiencies to a major sports reporter. If you want him gone, you praise him to the skies, and hope some other school wants him.
So do they announce Fuente is joining ESPN as an analyst tomorrow or Monday?
Regarding the timing of release, my suspicion is that this story could have been released last year, but someone within the VT Athletics Dept talked to Adelson (if he had any sense, it would have been Whit directly because he looks awful in this) and convinced her to hold the story and see if they could find any positive slant. Being a reasonable journalist and not wanting to completely bury a wavering program going into a year which was obviously going to be a shitshow on the field, she agreed to hold onto it for a while.
While the story is overwhelmingly negative, there are small tidbits of positivity in talking about how Pry is hoping to change things and interviewing Ali Jennings as an example of players that would have not previously considered VT now being back in the fold.
My other suspicion is that the story was released now because ACC Network just did the VT RoadTrip, which allowed Adelson the time to complete any leftover research/interviews (Jennings for example). Being that this was probably the only time ESPN planned to give VT any attention in the next year because they are too busy pumping the SEC and other self-serving interests, the timing sort of made itself.
Most embarrassing part was when they showed the statue of CFB outside Lane. Gets me every time.
Should I add "weights weigh the same" to the footer quote rotation?
abso-fucking-lutely
Definitely sounds like it could be a Yogi Berra quote.
Money talks. Scared money don't make money.
With the change in how recruiting, coaching, scouting, etc started going in the early 2010s we didn't invest the money to stay a top program. Fuente is/was a good coach but you can't compete at this level with the budget, staff resources, and facilities we had.
I think about it now and I can see why cornelson never got kicked to the curb. No proven coach you could afford and Ballein would have to sign off on any replacement.
This article makes Fuente look good. Makes whit look like he was in over his head and makes Ballein look like an ass.
Cornelson was one of the best P5 offensive coaches for his pay. We should have paid more and got a better OC. Fuente did more with what he had, the issue was he isn't a top 5 all time coach like Frank. And what he had wasn't as good as what Frank had.
If you won't let him hire Odom then you should have fired Fuente right there because that was a huge vote of no confidence.
I'm sorry, no. That man was absolutely terrible at his job, regardless of pay.
And his pay was terrible. His offenses were just less terrible than his pay. We paid position coach pay to a coordinator. He'll, Fuente's performance was inline with his pay too. The 43rd best P5 record is 6-6 most years.
You could also say that Cornelson performed to the level of his pay. By 2018 it was painfully obvious that he had zero ability to innovate and the Offense had become incredibly predictable.
I'm pretty convinced we could have found an Offensive Quality Coach just about anywhere, handed him the playsheet and there is a 50/50 chance he faired better than Corenelson. Multiple players have also come out and stated they either had no relationship with him at all or there was a weird underlying resentment.
Combine that with mind-numbing personnel decisions and the fact he was an absolute zero as a Recuiter..he was probably overpaid for the job he actually did.
He out performed his level of pay, did we ever have the worst p5 offense under him, were we even close? Nope. He was not a good coordinator, I'm not sure he was a good position coach, but we are now paying 4 position coaches more that we paid Corn. And they are worth it, but we had just gone dumpster diving out back of a bargin basement store and didn't come away with the shittiest coach possible. Ask Iowa I'd they would take cornelson as their OC.
I'm glad all this came out, thinking more about it. I'm sure changes have been made already, but the administration staff has had at least some of their dirty laundry aired out. Big time donors, if they weren't already aware of this bullshit are aware now....hopefully they've been on the line with Whit all day, letting their expectations for the future of the football program known.
My head was firmly in the sand on the complacency in the program. I knew it was bad around 2012 - very bad- but I had thought a lot of that was cleaned up. Negative Ghost Rider.
At least according to this article...
Some of the older donors were also part of the problem. They didn't keep up with the giving and still wanted the exclusivity. You can't tell me that one of the reasons we have seen so little reform despite loud outcries of the HokieClub doesn't involve that crew that likes that exclusivity.
I honestly hope this acts as a bitchslap across the collective face of the VT fan base and gets us to wake the fuck up and start acting like the program we claim to be. We ain't some backwoods hick town local school, we are a major national university with broad name brand recognition strong enough to have hit pieces like this written about us. Time to grow the fuck up and demand better from every aspect of the program.
Also, yes this was a hit piece. Makes me think we're a little more involved with realignment than you'd think and ESPN needed to knock us back down a peg or 2 to put Whit in his place.
When Dresser left for Iowa State, Whit copied his contract, put it on Robie's desk and said to him you have 3 hours to sign this if you want to be the VT head wrestling coach. No raise from Robie's salary, no other commitments. Sign it or leave. You really wonder why we have zero team national championships, don't you? I also have on good authority that someone else had to negotiate with Buzz Williams on all of the little things Buzz wanted because Whit had no patience for it, and didn't want to tell him "fucking no" .
I've kind of thought this for a while and alluded to it in some of my posts, but 1) I have my concerns whether Whit is a modern P5 big football program AD, and 2) we really needed to completely overhaul the entire program from the ground up when Beamer retired, and I don't think Whit exactly knew how to do that and hired Fuente who was a bad fit and not cut out to be that kind of a leader. As others have pointed out, if he had a problem with something and needed it changed, he needed to be the leader to demand it - instead he just withdrew further into his shell and made excuses rather than fighting for change. We really needed a Pry-like total overhaul, CEO-minded HC in 2015. But I think the administration and a ton in the fan base thought we just needed an offensive guru to pair with Bud and things would be fine. The issues were far deeper than that.
I really hope Pry is that kind of demanding leader that we need to overhaul this program and get it back to where it was. But yeah, this doesn't paint Whit in a great light at all and confirms a lot of the things I have been very concerned about with him. Primarily his ability to truly lead a football-first athletics department. Could be some ulterior motives here from ESPN, but not a good look.
Yes because a leader can just walk up to their superior and make demands with no leverage. How does some one making twice as much as a HOF coach made the year before demand anything and look good? What is that leader going to do quit? That's not going to look good. What would Fuente even say to Whit? I demand a new boss?
Agree Fu didn't have much leverage coming in, it wasn't like he was a seasoned HC with a ton of P5 experience. But he didn't seem to want to or know how to play the politicking game to get the things he wanted for the program. The Ballein thing just seemed unfortunately like Fu was too introverted or passive aggressive and let it get to him. Like DC said, honestly I am the head coach and have a huge contract - if I don't like what Ballein is doing, tell him to F off. They're not going to fire you - draw the line in the sand and say this is my program. It was almost like a test he failed in letting it bother him that much. Crappy for Whit to let that situation even manifest itself, but Fu just didn't have the stones to manage the situation IMO. We had too many Beamer loyalists still hanging around, a coach who couldn't navigate that and wasn't doing himself any favors with his recruiting or staff choices, and an AD who let it fester too long.
Which is really what I have said all along no one would have been good in that position, it was a bad position, some might have done better but no one that VT could have hired would have done very well.
Fuente was just the average looking rebound girl. Now that that is out of the way; time to get serious again
He had enough leverage to get a new contract after the 2016 season
It was after the 2017 season when he was given the extension and large buyout. Which coincidentally is also precisely when everything started really going downhill.
Surprise! It was both
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2701599-justin-fuente-virginia-tech-...
This is embarrassing. I've been a big Whit supporter...now I'm not so sure about him. The whole having the coaches do a "gear drive" is some small town JV football team shit. That can't happen at a D1 school with aspirations like VT. Ever. It's good to know that we're trending upwards, but given the current landscape of CFB, I wonder if it's too little, too late.
There is not a bigger detractor of our Nike deal on this board than me...but that point is a little overrated IMO. Nike sends us a ton of gear - now, not as much variety as UNC, but they do send gloves, t shirts, shoes hats etc. they WANT players wearing this stuff. So the gear drive 1. wasn't out of "need" - players just wanted more swag like OSU posts on Insta and 2. More a VT equipment room being stingy - which has been the case since the early 90's with Carlin. To give you an idea, when Bruce Smith needs a heavy VT coat to wear on the sideline- he has to turn it back in. At Ohio State, they let Le Bron take his home.
I missed this part in the article, it sounded like we were short gear.
That said, it's dumb the equipment room is that stingy. I get being frugal to a point, but not to the point where players complain that heavily.
Part of that goes back to the cheating versus toeing the line mentality. By the NCAA, Bruce might not have been able to take that coat home. To OSU who didn't give a flying fig about cheating...
Yup. Same. I'm a big Whit fan. Love what he's done with every facet of our athletic program, save football. I've LOVED having spring sports to cheer for, after decades of watching UVa, Carolina and even NCSU succeed there.
I was able to gloss over the football stuff by noting what a home run hire Fuente was universally agreed to be. Hard to ignore this seemingly well-sourced story though. And it jibes with the very obvious results we've seen on and off the field. A fair amount of the shine is off.
Most of it for me...it's great he raised the bar of our Olympic sports, but none of that matters if the cash cow goes down. We're on the brink of total irrelevance imo. Like people have said in this thread I hope this article lights a fire under everyone's collective tails; admin, coaches, players, big boosters and average fans. We need all hands on deck to keep this thing afloat, and Whit needs to make some serious headway after this has come to light.
If this wasn't a hit piece, a third of the article would have focused on Pry and how he specifically is approaching the turnaround.
His tour de Virginia is only alluded to as a way to emphasize Fuente ignoring VA. They mention Pry went to Warwick. They didn't mention the staff went to EVERY GODDAMN HIGH SCHOOL IN THE STATE.
No mention of the recruiting momentum, and improvements over recent classes.
No mention of our approach to NIL.
No mention of how he already had two coaches poached for better jobs.
No mention of his understanding of the direct link between facial hair and on-field success.
The original headline read like this would be a Pry-focused piece on his efforts to turn us around. The article is focused almost exclusively on past fuckups that got us to our modern low point, and making our AD look like a complete bellend.
The worst part of the article tbh
I'm willing to eat some crow on Whit, this article is just....... yikes
tjbhokie would be incoming in 3....2....1....
Fu should have been fired immediately after that Dook clusterf*ck. That was before COVID and Hamilton as DC. That was the day he lost the fans and the alumni/donors (self included).
Likewise. That Duke game broke me.
I kinda loudly proclaimed how much he needed to be fired in the stadium during that game in one of the higher dollar alumni areas. My group of friends still give me shit for it, but they all admit that looking back, it would have been the right time.
Sat in Lane and watched it.. We had DB's running into each other, etc. The offense was horrid with an "offensive coaching staff". Awful. Showed me Whit wasn't serious about winning
The Duke game was the only time I walked out on my Hokies. It was trbl. In the worst way.
Whit should be fired immediately after Sands reads this article.
It's also worth mentioning, as I'm seeing everyone rethink their position about Fuente. This was a coach who called a timeout to ice a kicker attempting a game winning field goal that was 15 yards further than his career long. A kick that was blocked and housed for what should have been a kick 6 walkoff win for us, and instead had his defense go prevent on the next play gifting the QB 20 yards to set up a comfy follow-up for the kicker.
The man sucked as a head coach, especially on game days. His situational awareness was timecop levels of bad. This article doesn't change that.
Yeah, he wasn't backed by the admin, but he was still terrible as a coach. No amount of money would have fixed his in game decision making, benching Hooker, keeping 🌽 etc.
I can't fault him for that. Why wouldn't you give a guy who had never kicked anything that long extra time to think about? My only complaint was that it was too close to the snap.
Nah man you let him kick that because you know he's going to try and pray he can just kick the shit out of it and get it through the line on too low a trajectory, and just tell everyone to get their hands up. A guy in that position WILL make a mistake. He did, and we let him off the hook. The next kick had no pressure because we already bailed his ass out.
If we want to get technical about it, the kicker didn't make a mistake. His blocking line did. They didn't make the same mistake twice.
The first kick had to be line drive kicked right over the helmets because the kicker knew he had absolutely no hope of getting the distance needed. He had to, and we should have known it.
The second kick, after the 20 yard gain when we went prevent defense after the timeout... well, he didn't have that issue anymore.
I was so excited they were going to kick an impossible field goal rather than do another 15-20 yard play to kick an easy fg like they had been movong down the field easily to do....
Because that Liberty kicker is not fucking Justin Tucker, that's why. The defense did its job. They stopped the online religious school that has played D1 football for 10 minutes for a ridiculous FG that they wouldn't make in practice with 50 tries and no rush. As a college coach, Fuente should know this. Elite kickers miss regularly from 55 yards. This kid had zero shot - zero. Terrible terrible decision- 100% on Fuente and cost us the game. One of the reasons he is no longer coaching here.
The horrible part was that was the only game I got to during the Covid year. I was sitting (in the general vicinity) of the players families. We were all excited when we thought we had a horrible game won, and then the call of Fuente had taken a timeout absolutely crushed everybody in the stadium.
Same author (and similar story type) to the FSU piece 3 years ago
That wasn't a 'hit piece' and this isn't either - it's just a well researched/written article. It's actually journalism (more than you can say about much of what espn creates these days), and it's interesting. That's why it got published.
Y'all really thing VT is a big enough fish to deserve a 'hit piece'?
Man I've watched them operate long enough to know to never assume innocence with ESPN/Disney when it comes to running articles that involve entities where there is already public friction between the two. Maybe this is the case this time, but that company lost the benefit of the doubt there decades ago.
As for being a big enough fish, I don't think anyone would care to investigate to the level that AA did to write an article like this about a Boston College or Georgia Tech.
IMO, ESPN's issue isn't writing pieces that shouldn't be written; it's the opposite (see auburn/freeze)
GT won a national championship 9 years before we played for one. They absolutely had a fall from grace, and arguably more severe than ours.
VT competed at the top of the sport from 1995-2011. GT coukd not maintain their success.
Not to mention their 1990 title was disputed - Colorado was #1 in the AP, GT was #1 in the coaches poll.
Edit: I've shared this guy's work before, but I like it because is an objective method for comparing teams' performances over the last 40 years. He explains that VT is the 19th best program over the last 40 years, and GT is the 36th.
Anyways, the reality is no one is confused why GT has fallen off. VT's fall from grace happened fast and without warning. So it's of interest to cfb fans. GTs fall is not.
Lol we would all pray to have the peak they did. Disputed or not, they have a title. We don't.
Colorado was #1 in the AP despite a fifth down and a loss. GT had no losses and had tired the #13 team. GT deserved that championship.
It didn't happen that fast, we spent 4 years not recruiting WRs. The cupboard was bare with Boykin and Coale left. Look at the 2006 draft class, we didn't recruit VA well, it didn't get better until like 2012 under a different staff. If you 2009 was a terrible year recruiting that I have no clue how we were rated that high. We stopped having the players and that's why we didnt win so much after 2011.
MSU has had a similar issue wlaince Dantonio left. Mel Tucker is 18-14 in the 3 years there. Time will tell if he can win like Mark, but what MSU did for a decade is tough to match.
But that's kinda the point... the only people who saw the demise coming were (a) very close to the program and (b) somewhat pessimistic. I mean, after 2016 basically everyone thought VT had struck gold and managed the perfect follow up for a coaching legend. Kept Foster on, married the existing defensive mastermind with an offensive mastermind... we all no the story
But then in fell apart. That's the shocking part. That's why this story was written.
2016 was it's been falling apart for almost a decade and we hail Mary'd and I appear to work.
Regardless the intent... I question the timing. Is the ACC so boring right now, you have to run a piece on VT's equipment room policies and John Ballein? A dinosaur admin who has never coached a game? Who 99.99% of college football fans wouldn't know if he was in the same elevator? I question the motive, yes.
Only thing that makes sense to me is a push from Fu's agent/PR team as he's looking to re-enter coaching this next cycle. Don't think it has anything to do with the tv deal/behind the scenes expansion stuff. This seems very much so an effort to bury VT and make Fu look good for a new job.
My takeaway, yes mistakes were made on all sides and our admin had difficulty moving on from Beamer. But resources didn't get us blown out at home by Duke or locked out of VA recruiting. Fu takes a large share of the blame.
Hard Yes - The ACC is far and away the most boring P5 conference headed into 2023:
The only really interesting questions in the ACC are:
I'm not that interested in anything going on in Chapel Hill. Can Mike Elko repeat? That's sort of interesting I guess. Can Narduzzi win 8 games again? Not that interesting. Can Wake win without Hartmen? Who cares about Wake. Is Miami fucked? Probably.
There's just not many compelling narratives in the ACC compared to other conferences IMO.
To me, Story 1A, B, and C is Florida State publicly wanting out of the league. That's THE ACC story to me. Far down the list is Beamer's semi-retired walking buddy clashing with Fuente 4 years ago over meals on trips. Seriously. In addition to FSU, Drake Maye could be the #1 pick in the draft, Can anyone upend Clemson's dominance? They have won 7 out of the last 8 ACC titles. Both vastly more interesting than Ballein
Especially to non-VT fans. I imagine most CFB fans could care less about Fu unless he is named as a potential hire for their team. They sure as shit don't care about Beamer's walking buddy and the day-to-day operations of VT football 5-7 years ago.
I disagree. I think a lot people are interested in 'dead letters' stories. Living in Atlanta, talking to SEC folks, I get a lot of 'what happened to VT?' People are genuinely bewildered, and it's not easy to explain. This piece basically answers that question.
Tell them that an all time top 10 coach went 29-23 his last 4 years and had a recruiting budget less than UGA spends per each recruit. Then we didn't replace a top 10 coach with another one since there are only 10 of them and Saban has a better job.
People love train wrecks. That's why the news isn't filled with great stuff happening, it's full of murder and natural disasters and car crashes. And when it's gossippy like this was...ho boy, this is like reality TV for dudes. The only other consistent seller is redemption stories, and it's been said here several times, that may be the follow up piece once Pry wins his first championship 👀
I think ESPN wants us to be good. The gooder we get, the gooder they can get us in the SEC.
Another notable excerpt:
My summary. Money solves some problems, relationships will solve some others. When you have neither it's going to not go well.
I think I just wrote a marriage and college sports column!
Aye... there was a lotta stank behind the scenes-- and Eye wonder who reported it over and over and over; in real-time?
Still yet... what if this is Fu's truest epitaph?
^^^fu'gly shoulder and knee hurts on the only quality Qb1 he had...^^^
(and: Herb' poppin' his hammie...)
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Now, like him or lump him... if not for bad luck (maybe even the worst luck),
Fu' woulda had NO luck at all.
Those two stay basically 100% healthy... and this is a very different epitaph.
In point of fact; it may not have been an epitaph; at, all.
💯
b.street
Let's also not get too carried away with the idea Fu is a victim here. The results speak for themselves. Look at where he and his staff ended up after they were let go - not exactly a lot of high profile landing spots, and Fu himself is still not back in coaching. Mistakes made all around, but let's not act like Fu was this coaching savant just held back by little ole VT. He wasn't cut out for the job - period.
Agree that we shouldn't get too carried away, but if you are arguing where the coaches ended up when Fuente couldn't hire the coaches he wanted. Yes Justin Hamilton isn't a DC somewhere, but Barry Odom is, and one of the best in the business right now. If Fuente was blocked from hiring good coaches you can't hold the lack of good coaches against him.
I said in another thread that Weaver was very good about upgrading facilities to the best of his funding. I really believe he excelled in that one aspect. There are zero aspects Fuente excelled in, so why there were lots of issues that I believe contributed to issues, at no point the Fuente ever ignore everything outside of his control and do something, o w thing really well. He had recruiting issues because our recruiting was underfunded, but he also roster management issues, some times you have to do what you can, because had he done one thing well we'd be on a better position right now. Pry could never win more than 3 games a season and everyone well be disappointed he didn't work out because he does media/fan outreachbvery well. Because he does that well kids might see him talk and want to play for him, so that helps recruiting. Or he might get more donations, or he will be treated better when picking up his kids from school. So the town likes him, so if one person in the Athletic department doesn't when everyone else does it makes them look like the asshole not Pry. Doing 1 thing well can be contagious and help a lot of other things.
I honestly think if Odom hadn't been associated with Fu at Memphis they possibly would have let him make the hire. There was probably some degree of old guard vs new guard tension going on, probably some degree of wanting Fu to fail at that point too (which I think most saw as inevitable by that point). But I think it was seen as another Memphis buddy, even though Odom is a legit DC in his own right. If it was someone outside of that tight network that Fu had due to limited connections from his past stop, it might have been given the green light. But I think most people saw the writing on the wall for his tenure by then, and there probably was a large degree of wanting him to fail by the old guard. Which I think is wrong, but if the buyout wasn't an issue, I still think we probably should have fired Fu in 2019. It was clear it was toxic by then and not working from either side.
Yeah it's a tough place be in to walk into a mess and find out it is a mess and point that out only to be told we've done this way for decades and it works Eben though the signs that it doesn't work are plaster all over the place.
Fuente wasn't bad at recruiting because it was underfunded, it didn't help. Fuente was bad at recruiting because he didn't want to. Way to many reports of him not interacting with recruits (or their moms), schools, etc. He was a distant person that just didn't walk to people about outside his close circle of friends.
As for Odom, I wonder if Whit already knew the writing was on the wall and Fuente wasn't going to last. Therefore he didn't want to put more money into the program or he considered Memphis a tainted tree. In this case, Odom was good. But once bitten, twice shy.
He was part of the problem. Up until this point I thought he was the biggest problem, but this article revealed a major bungling of the transition from Beamer to Fuente and that absolutely magnified the issues with Fuente. It just sounds like Fuente was undermined and cutoff at the knees at every turn.
After reading the article and participating in the comment banter, I believe this will absolutely put a fire under all the appropriate people's asses. And, for several reasons, but often times, this particular reason is the MF'er of them all and kills most deals, it may be the single largest factor in said ass lighting and that's EGO.
For me, I hope this burns all the VHNW and HNW donors to no end and they say, "oh yeah, well, check this shit out..beotch" and pour in the millions. It will most definitely scorn the staff's pride and they will respond in kind. For Whit, he needs to acknowledge and become/stay humbled, and seriously rethink his approach to the program. He has started but needs to get fully dipped.
A good start would become a member of TKP. Then fully dipped status is truly achieved.
Finally had time to read it this morning, and...yep, that was about as rough as I was afraid it would be.
Disagree that it makes Fu look good, I don't think anybody comes out of this smelling like a rose. And just in case you are more sympathetic toward CJF after reading this, as Alum pointed out his in-game performance was often bad enough all by itself.
Torn on whether or not it's a hit piece. I agree that it's not written like one, there's no obvious slant one way or another, it's more a collection of facts, quotes, and anecdotes. But HT made some good points above about what they left out of the "how can VT catch up" portion.
And yeah, this could've been released at a better time, like May.
Also
SO rich of this ESPN-employed writer to point this out when it's fully in her company's control. The call is coming from inside the house.
I dunno, man. Made Shane look like a Hokie football operations savant for laying down the hard, "No!"
And keeps a positive light on Shane because SEC is the best per ESPN.
I'm sure that's just coincidence. /s
The timing of this tweet 😂
For decades; going back to Dooley-- every single time Eye've been Blessed to 'get into' practice?
J.B. cards me. Virtually 100%. He even got to the point to where he recognized me; knew
who had 'approved'. And he still asked for I.D.
He dots every single "i" and crosses every single: 't'.
The V.T.C.C. missed out on on man like that.
💯
b.street
The Corps has/had enough overly officious douchebags that, when given the tiniest sliver of temporary power, act as though they are medieval lords. Luckily for the nation, these are typically folks who are not commissioning after graduation.
LOL 😂 Can confirm.
I think the football program could have used someone like Col. Fox.
For anyone not familiar with Col Fox
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_L._Fox
Damn. One seriously impressive man.
ANY organization would benefit from a Col. Fox.
But the football team did have Col(eman) Fox!
I really don't want to slander...but I'm not about John Ballein right now
John Fallein
John Ballein believes you should be all about John Ballein because that's how it was done under Beamer.
Thankfully it seems that she's qualified, but I'm no insider
Well, we can only go up from here! I like where our recruiting and relationships with VA high schools are headed. Kind of like how Dave Ramsey has baby steps for getting out of debt, it's going to take baby steps to turn this thing around especially with NIL, transfer portal, and other issues that have crept up since 2016. They can't all be fixed overnight.
Buckle up... we dug ourselves into this over the last 15 years... forget overnight - I'll be ecstatic if this gets fixed in the next 5 years.
They used to say "Invent the future" but the results say "Stay content in the present which will soon be the past". Back in 2017 they dropped "Invent the future" and rightfully so.
The new tagline "claim your role" sounds a whole lot like "know your place"
I think ours is closer to:
"We don't invent the future, we re-invent the present "
Lets be honest. That article reads like it was leaked by Fuente's agent.
CJF is fucking trash. That's why he doesn't have a job.
You're going to hate the thing I publish on this. 😂
Joe to CJF:
One of my friends called it a "Fwenty Propaganda Piece." I laughed.
I don't think the piece read as some glowing endorsement of Fu. It does show how the downfall wasn't 100% Fu's fault. Regardless of what Ballein did, the in game coaching and recruiting were sub-par. He didn't even really try to stick to VA areas w/a depleted budget. The whole QB debacle as well is completely on Fu and his inability to fire Corn is on him. For anyone to say we didn't have the money etc he should have been in Whit's office saying they better find it if they want VT to improve. But that didn't happen.
Perhaps it's more of Fu's personality that didn't jive with a P5 head coach position not to mention a team that expects to at least be in the top 25 every year and in a conversation about the ACCCG. At Memphis he didn't have those worries and recruiting was probably a bit easier as you weren't likely having other big P5 teams competing for your recruits.
I think Fu was naive and probably thought VT is a top-25 type of job, recruiting will sell itself to a large degree and they have the infrastructure and resources to handle that and let me just coach football. Probably thought he could get a steady wave of talent in from the VT brand and produce enough offense paired with Bud to win 8-10 games a year on average and compete for the ACC. I don't think he understood the challenges VT was up against adapting to the modern college football landscape and the rebuild that was needed to truly move on after the Beamer era which had caused the program to stagnate for many years prior to his retirement. I also don't think he understood at all the personality type needed and demands from a PR aspect for a major P5 job, and what the VT fanbase in particular had become accustomed to under Beamer.
Could he perhaps have been more comfortable/had more success at another program that didn't need the culture shift like VT? Possibly. But even if given Alabama-level resources, I think he would have underperformed given his general mindset about his role in PR and recruiting and the level of work in those areas it takes to have a top level program. Maybe he could bring Corn and his group of guys and win 7-9 games at a program with top-notch resources, but it still would be underperforming. But I will say, I think coaches had figured out his offense and how predictable it was by mid-2017. So the results might be similar anywhere that already has decent talent on the roster (strong start but eventual sharp decline).
This seems spot on. I don't know that it was for lack of effort in the end, or that he didn't come to understand these things. But I suspect you're right that the needs of a P5 HC job didn't necessarily align with his strengths/desires. The dude isn't incapable of coaching, he's certainly demonstrated that over a career. But I wonder if part of the reason we haven't seen him resurface somewhere else is because he realized that a lot of what modern college football is about isn't for him. Maybe he's looking for something specific at a smaller place again. Or maybe he's just going to take his fat check and spend time on his hobbies/family. Who knows.
Bingo. I think he needs just the right spot to be successful - a place probably in the plains (OK or TX) where he has existing recruiting connections so he doesn't have to build them, decent financial resources, and probably not much in the way of expectations as far as PR/being a public-facing coach. All the shaking hands, kissing babies type of work with people he isn't familiar with. Honestly I think SMU would be a fantastic place for him if that job ever opens up again.
He supposedly interviewed for the North Texas gig last year. That probably would have been a good fit for him.
I think the big donors at SMU would eat him alive. SMU wants to be a big time program again.
I think that by the time he figured it out what he need to do to course correct, it was too late - he was too short on buy in from the admin, not enough money for him to correct his hiring mistakes, and not enough time to rebuild relationships with fans and high school coaches.
I think he could succeed at a Texas based B12 school. Hopefully we'll find out one day.
yeah I agree with all your points.
The thing that shocks me about this article, and TKP member's response to it, is the lack of mention of Corn. He's not mentioned ONCE in the article, and not much here in TKP responses. Yet, outside the introversion problem, it was always considered CJF's greatest liability and the reason he couldn't put to use the player talent that he did have.
After reading the article though, how much decision making ability did Fuente even have. What if he wanted to replace Cornelsen, but was told his current salary was the budget? Might as well keep what you have at that point. Even if Fuente had replaced him, you can't build a successful program while being handcuffed and undermined.
I am not sure I buy that excuse for Corny. I can see on Odom that was later in Fuente's arc at Tech. The decision had been made by a lot of fans to give up on Fuente by that point and maybe by Whit. Why spend money brining in a big name, when you can start saving that money towards the buyout you know you are going to need to make.
Corny was obvious to most fans by the end of year 2, if not three that something had to happen. Jerry Kill publicly trashed Corn and Fuente ignored it. At that point, if he had moved I think Whit would have made it happen. Also a lot of up and coming OC's would have probably jumped at the chance to make what Corny was making and prove themselves.
Again, I am an optimist. Whit has been good for Tech overall. Our program is ahead of where it was when he stepped in for almost all of our programs. Unfortunately, football is very vocal and very visible and it has been his biggest misstep.
I almost forgot about Jerry Kill, and now that you mentioned it I'm surprised that he wasn't part of the article.
The article was supposed to smear the Tech administration and redeem Fuente. Expanding on Fuentes horrible decision making and ignoring advice from people with more experience doesn't fit that narrative. Hence, Corny and Kill were DELIBERATELY left out.
One of the anonymous sources?
Jerry Kill exposes the article as a little misleading. He was brought in to help evaluate and assist the coaches. Unfortunately his unofficial report said that Corny was vastly unqualified for his position. So I guess the report ended up being a sandbag rather than assistance.
ANOTHER sandbag.
There were clearly too many of those.
It probably would have meant promoting someone like Vice, making Fuente the QB coach (a la Lincoln Riley), and then bringing in someone else at cost. Woof.
Objection: speculation. ;^)
I wanna know what Bud knew. He'd been there way before Fuente....and had to know something about what was going on in the background if it was truly hampering Tech's ability to perform.
Bud should write a tell-all and sell it exclusively through TKP.
Title: Bud Gets Heavy
That would be one way to boost tkpc memberships lol
Just dont drop it all at once - use the streaming model and release one chapter every week.
Triple the price of membership after chapter 2 - the Netflix/Hulu streaming model
i nominate bud foster for the next AMA. that would drive some subscriptions to TKP
This just sparked a hypothetical question for me. Given what we know now from the article, if Bud was given the opportunity to take over as head coach after Beamer as many wanted, do you think he would have succeeded? Is his legacy better off now?
In all honesty I think he would have died one night in his office after pushing himself too hard.
I doubt he makes it longer than Fuente given what we know now about his health.
So many variables involved...does Lefty stay on as OC? What happens at QB during the 2016-17 seasons (Is it Motley? Andrew Ford comes back? Bring in someone like Ryan Finley?) Does the 2018 implosion still happen? Does Bud, literally, have the heart to make it through the 2018 season? Does Bud force Whit to improve the infrastructure? Does the treasure trove of offensive talent (Hooker, Turner, Mitchell, Nester, etc.) still come to VT?
It's such a long thread you could unravel. Bud would name his successor at DC aka Pry, use his aura to hire a solid OC who actually knows how to run a P5 offense where the QB is allowed to actually make a read. The Virginia recruiting wouldn't have been locked out since he already has a relationship with the area.
Definitely his health could be a limiting factor but I think our on field production and recruiting would have been more sustainable. Most likely outcome would have been the same result as Fuente with the lack of assistance from the administration but I think it would have taken longer to get soooo bad.
For me - the program was exciting again in 2016 and 2017 under Fuente. Even going into 2020, I was hopeful after getting a Hendon Hooker preview in 2019. It didn't work out and Fuente was at the core of it - but clearly Ballein, Whit, and others played major roles in the failures of this era.
During those first couple years under Fuente - we always heard good things from Beamer era players he inherited (Edmunds', Ford, Phillips, Sam Rogers, Ricky Walker, Stroman, Chuck Clark, etc.)
Maybe that's because they were winning - but things with the players seemed to go south after the strain within the athletic department continued to grow. Fuente has accountability in major failures - both on and off the field - but he was not alone and others have seemed to skirt the negative spotlight and accountability until this article. All of it feels like a petty power struggle.
If that ESPN hit piece is true, then Pry will fail. Whatever issues that exist with the University, Sands, Babcock, the AD and whatever internal politics that go on aren't completely solved. They never will be.
I'll be the first to admit that CJF was considered across the media landscape/fanbase as a slam dunk hire. But he literally drove the football program into the ground. He's the head coach. Whatever issues are occurring above in the management chain, its his job to manage up and figure it out. He didn't solve any problem (on-field or off-field) during his entire tenure at VT. That is why he doesn't have a job right now.
Jerry Kill solved more problems during his short tenure than Fuente did during his entire VT career.
Fuente did a poor job...both off-field and on the field. This article should do nothing to dispel that.
But....it would appear that he had very little support above him and those that were supposed to be supporting him either mostly opposed anything that deviated from the Beamer customs (Ballein) or seemingly had their heads in the sand regarding the ongoings in Football (Babcock).
I think it's difficult to blame Fuente for not going in "guns-a-blazing" into the Athletic Dept and demanding to have his way.
Number 1 - he was a newcomer from a much smaller program trying to work with much more established people.
Number 2 - by doing so, (even if he did get his way)..he risks becoming Greenberg who was apparently reviled in the AD.
Keep in mind, this is an Athletic Dept who fired a reasonably successful HC (Greenberg) to hire someone who was wholly unprepared for the job largely for personality disputes. (Different AD, but still lots of the same people in the Dept overall).
More than anything, that's what this article made me fearful of...is that, at its core, the VT Athletic Dept is a rigid "club" where you either fit in and toe the line or they make sure that they get you out. And that's absolutely no way to be forward-thinking or successful.
It's like the mindset of the later Beamer years...when we weren't worried that we were consistently losing "exhibitions" to ECU because we were still winning the ACC consistently...meanwhile we were falling farther and farther behind each day.
It really comes down to Fuente. If he felt he was being unsupported by the admin and hamstrung, he should have (a) said something, or (b) LEFT. If he truly felt limited on what he could have done, his buyout to leave was miniscule. He should have taken the Baylor job or announce to Whit that unless changes were made and resources made available he was going to let his agent know to look for another job.
However, he didn't do either of those things and continued to manage the situation poorly which led to his dismissal.
I agree. The article makes Whit and the AD department look inept and childish however and provides evidence of the lack of support.
I remember being a little annoyed by the amount of Beamer honorifics VT was doing years into the Fuente era. That's on Fuente and Whit. Whit needs to move on and Fuente needs to insist that they do and give them a reason to. He did in the early years so why didn't he insist that the program move on from Frank.
He didn't get the support or by in her needed, but come on, demand it, make it happen, or cut ties. It's not a job for a shrinking violet who can't navigate a poor admin.
I think I've seen comments on here that echo my feelings? Whit and Ballein may have recognized early on that CJF was driving off a cliff. I can't remember the players name but in year 1 or 2 Fuente pulled his offer for visiting Maryland. That was the beginning of the end for recruiting in VA. But that was early in his tenure and an early indication that he did not understand recruiting and did not know how to deal with the players. The early portal departures of good players was another indication he was on the wrong track. Ballein may have been making a good faith effort to help Fuente develop the skills he needed to succeed. But CJF was too stubborn to listen.
In most industries, yeah. But in college football, he would never get another chance at the head whistle if there's a perception that he cut and ran when it got tough.
Say what you will about Bronco, but that's basically what he did at UVA. From what I hear, he realized the AD wasn't going to give football the resources he needed so he "retired".
Pry will not fail. He was there early on, he has some VT connections, he knows what resources are necessary from his time at Penn St. Whit will listen, Ballein will listen, the boosters will listen and the BOV will listen. As fans, you've already seen a difference in recruiting and the relationships with former players and VA high schools. See the vision be the vision; Pry is the best person for this rebuild mark my words.
Pry has long time connections to VT and the area from his time being employed by Beamer and his years in Penn State and seeing first hand what it takes to win at a top tier level gives him far more away than some hotshot coach who had never seen consistent success at this level would have. Even if you take this article at its word, you're basically dealing with a G5 head coach being told 'thats not how we do things at this level' by a program that had reached higher heights than he did. With Pry, that message is very quickly.shifting to 'no, fucktards, you have no idea what it takes to win at a top tier level, you need to ______'. And it looks like the admins are listening.
To play Devil's Advocate for a second, if people like Ballein realized just how in over his head Fuente was from the start, and how much he shunned everything about the previous regime except for being forced to keep Bud and implementing the 25 jersey, why the heck would you have his back? At a certain point, letting that man hang himself was the best course of action for the school.
If Ballein simply took his way too high salary for what he does and just chilled- rode out until retirement - and let Fu do his thing, a lot of this could have been fixed. In fact Ballein should have long ago retired. But that's that old VT mentality. Whit to lazy to hire a true replacement and Ballein hanging on to his cush job in blacksburg until his kids are employed by VT too.
100% agree. Guys who were once innovative in their mindset which helped them climb the mountain and now are arrogant as they lost innovation to ego and arrogance. The kiss of death for guys like Ballein is when answers start with this is how we have always done it....aka I'm not listening, lazy and want someone to affirm me vs succeed in the future.
Disappointing they he let his ego get in the way, but this is old news as this had gotten around a while back.
"This is how we've always have done it" is the worst thing to say to some one. There has to be a this is why we did it. And that can't just be "because it worked" otherwise you just got lucky.
Illustrated by the meatloaf story
As was noted , if you don't know WHY you "always did it that way" and the circumstances have changed, you should always question the process if it doesn't make sense. I have told every boss I have worked for- "If I don't understand why we do it this way, I'm going to question it; if I still don't like the answer or believe it is correct, I'll question again. After that if you tell me, "yes I know it doesn't make sense but that' what we have to do because "xyz reasons" , then I'll say ok as long as it's not illegal or immoral. But I'm NOT going to "not ask" because you hired me because I am intelligent and blindly following when something doesn't make sense isn't good business.
Unfortunately too many in the business world won't speak up.
Or my favorite, the 5 monkeys:
People who push that are destined to get steamrolled in their career. Working in IT, I've dealt with a few who had this mindset, and they're always the most miserable people to work with, because they largely resent everyone else for trying to make progress on process improvements and changing technologies.
However, the funny thing is, every once in a while you see someone see the light, and move away from that mindset, and those people end up becoming some of your strongest contributors because they know the actual limits on what you can do, and know where you can strategically challenge the norms.
I'm seeing this a lot, as I've made a recent switch over to QA in my org. I really shouldn't have to push back on policies/processes this much, but I am.
Yeah, I was dealing with it in Ops, specifically in change/release management. There were a few on my old teams who thought they could single-handedly hold up the release pipeline for the entire company for reasons that rarely were more concrete than 'we've always done it this way and I'm not changing'.
Sometimes it took a while, but those individuals eventually got wrecked because the business isn't going to care when you're potentially costing them money by arbitrarily holding back progress.
I spent 20 years in QA and the last 10 running PMO's- the last 5 in operations. You are correct, but the issue is communication. Most orgs communicate potential changes very poorly- starting with the tried and true "nothing about your day to day is going to change"- which of course is a lie. So when changes DO start happening, the old school folks dig their heels in and resist. Why? welp "we've always done it this way". That's most of it- especially in operations. The other issue is that most orgs have very poor performance/process baselines - so its hard to measure if the "new" way is better or not. Orgs that measure those things objectively are the most innovative and best in their industries.
I routinely sit in the CCB meetings and question what is going on because the way its always been done is bad. Two products that share code but a copy is stored in each repo, well you only need to tie it to one release and the other product well who cares if we know if it is fixed in time, it's not like we have any way of easily tracking the changes that need to be made to the system. Oh you made a change to that shared code and now one product can't build because it needed an update to use the change. These problems were solved atleast 20 years ago, we're not trying something new, just new to you.
Your CTO should be fired on the spot
Not a software company so CTO doesn't really care, and really can't at this low a level. But yeah I lost that battle because I'm not a software engineer (anymore), but now everyone is complaining about it so it will fix itself (I hope). I'm slowly bringing them into this century when I can. We just demonstrated what ansible can do for everyone.
Correct and such an easy fix
This article may have opened eyes, soured some impressions, and cut a little deep, but it highlighted the gaps. Time to put up like a program we want to be.
Hokie Club Triumph Together 2023 drive
two comments from me.
1) The best time ever is when shit is behind you and you're upwind. There is zero chance this article tells the full story but it all sounds bad. Great news, its in the past and it looks like we have a HC that fans adore and is serious about doing the things we all feel should be done. Sky is clear my fellow hokies, the wind is blowing the smoke from the dumpster fire behind us the other way. let it go.
2) I am absolutely shocked at how much of an attack this article is on the guy, whom as I was told, was the lead voice in busting the Grant of Rights and jumping the ACC in this last ACC conference meeting and at the front of the argument to pull in new members from another conference that a) notoriously snubbed ESPNs tv rights deal for Apple and b) that if done is potentially creating an out for members not wanting to have Grant of Rights contracts anymore. It's not like ESPN has a contract worth big fucking bucks on the line with ACC that is severely in their favor as it is notoriously the worst deal in college football, especially after losing such a big conference deal before. Shocked. Shocked I tell you.
This right here. On #2. This just makes the most sense. The article really seemed to give the ex HC a pass and put all the blame for the Hokies ills on the man who maybe has a chance at costing ESPN alot of money. There is most often an angle. And it could all be true but still, they put it out there and spent time and resources "getting after it".
Are you trying to tell me that the Disney company might have run a hit piece on an entity that was going to potentially cost them a ton of money in the long term?
Why I never...
Yeah, I never would have guessed that
So not only is the call coming from inside the house, it's coming from inside the Mouse. Figures
Didn't realize Ballein had that much pull in the program. I'm sure a decent number of folks here took Theory of organization with Dr. Torgersen. Ballein, I think came in to speak for that class once every semester, and I remember him being a pretty intense dude lol, based on the way he spoke to our class.
I took theory of org in 2013 and dont remember him coming... that was an amazing class, though. I still use things from that course but havent used calc of diffeq since grad school
I actually randomly found my notes from that lecture a few weeks before this story broke.
I took this course and our project was to interview Ballein and a couple other folks in the AD to see how the AD worked as an organization. This was back in like 2008 or 09
The TSL Pod (41:29) had some really good discussion points about this:
Other tidbits include:
Overall, it's a pretty nuanced discussion:
At least Will said the quiet part out loud. They are simply company mouthpieces for Whit. cool.
Does that pod cost money? like everything else on TSL? Depth chart? subscriber only. Pry quotes? subscriber only New hoops players? subscriber only
Ad revenue doesn't pay for shit. If it did, TKP wouldn't have gone fully behind a paywall a month or so ago. Can't really fault them for a business model that everyone else in the industry has gone to over the past 5 years.
If their board monitoring wasn't blatantly hypocritical I would subscribe over there again. I like bitter, but I'm not paying for every word he writes about VT if they are so hypocritical monitoring the boards.
Eh, apples and oranges. 'Ad revenue' is an umbrella term - There are a lot of podcasts that make money off of ads. There are different ways to make money from ads (promo code usage, sheer number of listeners, single fee, etc).
There are also a lot of media companies that use podcast as a marketing ploy. Eg; maybe people will listen to Andy Bitter on the TSL podcast and decide to become a TSL subscriber.
great point.
this absolutely undermines journalistic integrity. Essentially, he's saying that they can't (won't) say anything bad about VT because that would put their relationship (access) at risk. That's not how this should work, at all. That attitude sucks. It feels kinda commie-ish
I've known that for a while. They never "break" a story- ever- they are too affraid. Coleman always claims "yeah I knew about that"- I asked him point blank- then why don't you ever break the story? he basically said they want to keep their press pass. lol.
This is a problem with every team centric media group. Their bread is buttered by being able to cover that team. If they say anything too critical, they can no longer cover the team and make money. It definitely sucks, but it's a reality. What's amazing is we aren't even close to one of the worst. Check out the Clemson, Alabama, and Texas A&M football media for some truly slanted coverage.
Yep - that's the advantage of the school residing in a small media market. They can control the narrative, especially with a team-centric media group like TSL (versus even the Roanoke Times for instance). VT can't stop a larger publication from going forward with something adverse or controversial, like the ESPN article. But yeah, if they don't want Will and Chris to report on some dirty laundry, they can cut off their access to the program in a heartbeat.
There are other examples. Coleman making up his own recruiting metric to carry Fuente's water, etc. I get it.
Journalistic integrity died decades ago outside of very few groups. If we ever had it at all in the first place. Even ESPN doesn't have it as they railroaded Mike Leech.
This is a little disingenuous IMO. It's a big leap between "I need to maintain a good relationship with VT football to keep my press pass" and "I am a mouth piece for VT football."
I haven't met Will, and I'm not a big consumer of his product, so I won't speak to his 'general' language/attitude towards VT, but he's critical of Whit in this interview.
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I also listened to the podcast and he went even further into a contrast of the AD under Weaver vs Whit, acknowledging they both had their own strengths and weaknesses. I thought that was a pretty objective comparison (Weaver was extremely financially frugal but prioritized football first and foremost, but also a bit underwhelming on coaching hires; Whit usually goes for a home-run hire and isn't afraid to spend money, but also does not prioritize football and has diverted money to other sports, contributing to the issues football has faced).
Truly shocking to see that ESPN would have put a dramatic spin on this to paint a school who is potentially leading the charge to break up the ACC (and potentially cost ESPN a ton of money when a hefty chunk of former members jump to the SEC, and Big 12 for higher contract mandated payouts) in as negative a light as possible. Truly shocking, indeed.
Yeah I'm also starting to think there was some behind-the-scenes motivations for ESPN in the tone and timing of that piece now, especially with it coming to light that the ESPN is really pushing the ACC to take Stanford Cal and SMU. They desperately don't want to lose their bargain contract with the ACC. The Big Ten was really smart to get away from ESPN and diversify their media deal. That place seems like it is pretty toxic, and they now realize they have overextended themselves tremendously with the SEC deal and NFL games. Wouldn't be surprised if the Mouse tried to sell them off at some point.