Yeah, a vent thread is appropriate. Moral victories aren't acceptable anymore.
The positive: I was going to say the "fight" that the team shows to the very end, however when we only see that type of play for the last few minutes of the game is it really a positive?
The negative: Probably everything else.
There isn't another win on the schedule. welcome to 1-11 FAM.
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I can't remember the last time VT football has made me happy, and that makes me very sad
The last time VT Football made me happy was the UVa game in 2021...everything since not so much
Yeah. And it's not just happy, it's enjoyment. Let's face it football is fun and entertaining. At least it supposed to be. Theses games are ugly. And I mean Friday night po dunk high school football ugly. It's not fun to watch.
I would call today's game a thundering turd.
Can't win until we fix the OL. And a lot of other things. But we have nothing going for us if we don't win in the trenches. I think Pry knows that but it remains to be seen if we can fix it. Bad year this year for sure...
I'm here for moral victories. But there weren't any today.
Drones didn't throw a pick?
He fumbled. Doesn't count lol
I would 100% take a moral victory at this point
We bad bad yall
Team shows fight, but they make up for their lack of talent/experience with lack of discipline in big situations.
Some trash calls from the refs but you can't just not play offense for 3 freaking quarters. Where was all that creativity in the 2nd and 3rd quarter?!?
Love my Hokies. Always
But we suck. Bad. 1-11 here we come.
We're not
Marshall
The team plays hard and fights in every game. They are lacking talent severely. If Pry's recruiting strategy is the right one, this can get better pretty quickly.
Again, I still see what Pry is trying to do to set a foundation. That still keeps me encouraged.
Man, I want to believe you. But I'm afraid Pry is a poor man's Mario Cristobal.
I'm just hoping a stinker of a season doesn't scare off the guys we really need.
What recruit is going to want to come if we can't win games?
Ding...ding...ding....
At some point you have to demonstrate that you can actually beat any other P5 team on the field to think recruiting is going to consistently pick up.
Recruits don't care about what you did before you got there. They care about:
They also care if other recruits are going there and they care about who/where you play. VT has a shit schedule and plays in front of small and half full stadiums on the regular. There are a whole lot of reasons for recruits NOT to come to VT atm... losing is one of them even if it isn't the main one.
Great...
-who has VT put in the NFL (particularly at any skill position) recently?
-Pry is great, but so is Dabo, James Franklin, Kirby Smart ---plus those guys actually win games.
-Blacksburg is a beautiful campus but it's not exactly an exciting place for 18-22 y/o and that's not changing.
-where does NIL come from?? Primarily from boosters who aren't gonna throw money at a continual loser
So at some point, what you have to point to is what you can do on the field....and putting guys in the NFL generally correlates with winning games or vice-versa. You can get by with smooth-Talking and selling your "vision" for a short period but that can't go on forever.
To pretend like success on the field doesn't have a major impact on recruiting is illogical.
This is where you point to a coach's history. Pry should be talking about Micah Parsons non-stop. Cheetah has put guys in the NFL. Bowen has put TEs in the NFL. That's what you point to.
When I said "Is the campus/school a good fit for what I want to do?" that doesn't just mean 'is the campus nice?' - it means: Does this campus have the social life I want? Can I play the right amount of school for me? There's a big gap between Ole Miss and Georgia Tech - Where does VT sit on the spectrum.
SBJ named our NIL program one of ten 'power players' earlier this year, along side UGA, Bama, and others. Our NIL program isn't broken.
Recruiting is illogical. Half these guys think they can come in and (at least contribute to a) turn around. Have you talked to any recruit? My BIL finished his senior season of high school football in GA last fall. I've talked to his teammates who are being recruited. None of them give a fuck about last year's record. They all care about NFL, NIL, if they like the coach, and if they can get play time.
Every recruit will weigh these things differently, but I'm convinced that fans would be shocked if they knew how little recruits care about a coach's win/loss record.
I would say early playing time is your biggest sell to recruits when the team is this bad.
Me examining the remains of a once proud VT program after Whit, Ballein, Fu, Pry and so forth have royally butchered it
If I could just wake up and it not be true but it is
Oh it is
Because of Whit's Men up in Merryman?
Whit's Men North of the End Zone
I'm going to record my own VT version of this sitting in stadium woods playing guitar with some turkeys running around.
Agreed. Don't see another win on the schedule.
We are worse than we should be, even given the personnel.
The Pry era so far has been a failure on the field, period.
Undisciplined play, continued awful clock management, not taking a FG to take a 2 score lead early....
Repeat after me---it's not just the players and it not Justin Fuente's fault anymore.
This is Prys baby and so far it has a diaper full of steaming shit.
Yeah, the "we just don't have talent" and "This is Justin Fuente's mess" is tired and simply doesn't add up right now. We certainly lack talent as it relates to our peers, but when you get pushed around by G5 teams and by low tier P5 teams there's something else entirely going on, particularly when you see how we worked the portal this offseason (I know two of those key portal guys are banged up).
This is correct. While we were, and are talent deficient, there is more than enough evidence that coaching is not up to par. I love Pry's cultural revolution, but his staffs actual coaching has just not been good. We are not disciplined, we don't execute well, and we are collectively not smart enough to out scheme opponents. Hiring two inexperienced coordinators was just not the right move and it shows.
Oi, what a day. Injuries, bad reffing, and head scratching play calling.... I mean just...oof.
You left out bonehaeded stupid penalties at the worst damn times over and over again. Led to at least 2 scores by Marshall when we would have had them off the field.
Man, at this point I feel like the only way to actually get success moving forward is be like Colorado. Get rid of the coaches and anyone connected back to the beamer era, make no one on the roster guaranteed to stay.
Tackling, penalties, unable to contain mobile quarterbacks, ineffective offenses - these haven't been new problems. These have been systematic issues in this program for the last decade. I just don't know what you do at this point to fix it, but whatever this is isn't doing it
If Colorado can pull a Deion to coach at their school, there is literally no reason why VT shouldn't AT LEAST entertain the thought and reach out to Michael Vick if Pry doesn't work out. I get he has a good gig at Fox, but it would be gross negligence to not even put out feelers. Maybe even D-Hall or D-Tapp. I feel like we need a real splashy hire to get recruits (and fans) excited about VT football. That would also draw media eyes to Blacksburg to create buzz we haven't seen since the mid 2000's.
And I don't want to hear about how polarizing Vick would be with his history. If he made VT a very good team and/or just fun to watch, no one will give a shit. And even if they do, they will still be watching VT every Saturday, especially if he can turn themselves into a winner.
Will it ever happen? I don't know, but it's worth the ask IMHO
Deion <> Vick. Deion spent 3 years at an FCS school coaching and recruiting top level talent before getting hired by Colorado. He beat FSU on the field, and then beat them out for the number 1 recruit in the nation(!!!) while at JSU. Vick and D-hall do not have anywhere near the coaching experience than Deion has.
Not to mention that Deion has 3 wins over mediocre teams so far. His OC will probably get an HC gig this year. It's not a given that this works out for Colorado long term.
I don't know about head coach, but I think it would be interesting to see if we could bring in Vick, Hall, Kam Chancellor or even Tapp as assistants much like how UNC brought in Dre Bly for a while. Gives the school instant credibility in some recruiting heavy regions (i.e. the 757 and DMV) and gives them an opportunity to learn on the job a bit, in case they want to more broadly take on coaching down the line. Even better if you could do it in a way that allows someone like Vick to stay working on the NFL pregame pregame on Sundays.
That's a very different proposition than hiring one of them as an HC right away.
I would also argue that this staff needs more experience right now. But, I'm not opposed to the idea.
Offensive/defensive analyst with a focus in recruiting would be perfect positions for either of them imo
IIRC Tapp was with us before he left to be the Asst D-Line coach for the Niners. He wouldn't be coming back as an analyst.
If any former VT player is the same caliber coach as Dre Bly they can stay exactly where they are.
As rough as this season has been, I think we can drop the Deion comparison. After the beatdown they took this weekend. Oregon proved it was all fluff and no substance.
I like Vick as a player, I just don't see him being a good coach. Someone like Darryl Tapp would be intriguing.
D-Hall or D-Tapp would probably be more ideal... High energy, loves VT, knows what it takes to be a winner, from 757 area, etc. let alone no history like Vick has.
But again, I'm not saying it would work out like Colorado and Deion, but I am saying it would be criminal not to see if there's at least some interest. No one could honestly say the 757 area recruiting wouldn't see an improvement with him on the staff in some sorts.
and did Oregon wipe them out this past week? absolutely, they are clearly more talented (at this moment), but let's not forget they have wins against 3 P5 teams already, where they were 1-11 all of last year.
A bit of an overreaction, no? Colorado lost to a team that they were supposed to lose to (by >20 points according to Vegas).
They're probably going to finish this season with more than 3 wins (a lot of us - myself included - that was their ceiling going into the year), but they're not a top 10 team (did anyone think they would be this year?)
I didn't think they would be a top 10 team, but there were people who were starting to "Believe."
That score could have been a lot worse. 35-0 at halftime.
This effing sucks, Fam.
It must be so weird to be a fan of a team with a good offense. Such a foreign concept for Virginia tech
Maybe when all the shit hits the fan with more conference realignment (Clemson and FSU to the SEC while UVA and UNC go to the BIG) we can get an invite to the Sunbelt... I mean, we aren't good enough to win that conference or even compete at a high level, but...
Only bright spot today.....my power went out 5 minutes into third quarter and didn't come back on until Miami kickoff. My house definitely played better defense than the Hokies.
I mean, that was the only time the defense was at least decent. They made the stops when needed, then the offense decided that 3 and out was all they wanted to spend on the field
At least someone played lights-out today.
The power at the bar went out in the 1st quarter for us. I never should have turned it back on when I got home.
Quit missing targets in the portal.
Quit missing tackles on the field.
Quit going away from the run when it's working.
Quit losing composure on third down after you've gotten a stop.
I gave Pry some grace last year, because quite frankly, simply not being Fuente was enough for me.
That is no longer the case. If he can't get it done, find someone who can. Light a fire under whoever's ass you need to to get the warchest opened up/increased/god forbid, created. Give me a reason to care again, because right now, I don't.
We're in ESPN Bottom 10 territory. And not the coveted #5 spot.
I guess their hit piece worked!
I can't give up on Va Tech. It's in my blood, both sides of my family. Several that have worn the colors on a varsity team, including football. Ultimately it's just a game. Games show us how to handle adversity in our real lives. So I'm hanging with the team for as long as it takes. And my vent is against petty, short-sighted criticism. Rational criticism I can respect. This down cycle is hard to deal with, but it is us until it's not.
Agree 1000%
I agree.
My degree is from there, so I'm in it for the long haul.
Either Pry will fix it, or it'll be a "next man up" situation.
We'll eventually fix it, but I'd rather it be sooner than later. To much good in the overall program's history to not fight to get it back.
I'm with you. Both my degrees are from VT, of which I am proud, and I certainly didn't enroll there in 1975 for their football team. I will continue to fly my VT flag on game days, have my VT towel and head covers on my golf bag, use 'Virginia Tech Alumni' license plate holders on my car, and root for VT until the day I die.
Agreed. I mean, I wasn't smart enough to get into Tech, but I grew up in Roanoke and sure as shit wasn't going to root for loluva. My dad went to Canisius, they play hockey and basketball (sometimes). When I started understanding football and playing high school, I loved defense. And who was better than Bud?
I'm here for the long haul, but damn it is frustrating.
Purdue: positive was the team didn't quit!
Rutgers: welp the team didn't quit. Fine.
Marshall: the team didn't quit... but this excuse if fucking pointless now.
A never give up attitude is great, but I'd rather the opponents be Clemson, FSU, or UNC than the three teams we just lost to.
We are so bad I'm not sure we will ever recover. Fuente did so much goddamn damage to this program and so few actually realize it. His burning of bridges among high school and AAU coaches around the Commonwealth was a death penalty to the program.
And with the administration we have and the lack of accountability from boosters, I'm not sure we have the desire from a university standpoint to ever get good again. At this point there are more reasons for us to not watch VT football anymore than to continue caring, and I'm starting to lean in that direction. This just isn't fun anymore. The fans are upset and the administration doesn't appear to care. The people who matter don't want us to be good, so why should I give a shit anymore
So you're saying we are UVA... I can't say I disagree honestly. Fuente certainly did a number on this program, but Pry is not helping at all. He's a great cultural fit, but at this point I'm not sure he is even as good a coach as Fuente. At least Fuente could grind out a few wins, even with a gross lack of talent.
We spend so much time and energy comparing us to UVa that we've basically become them. Just a sad not quite good at anything version of them where our football is marginally better and everything else is worse.
There's a lot of people (many of whom's opinions I respect) who basically think VT is just UVA with Frank Beamer instead of George Welsh
Location of today's Football contest:
Huntington, WV
Location of Justin Fuente: somewhere in BFE, Oklahoma.
C'mon this argument has gotten beyond tired and the drum has been beaten into the ground. Pry has to stand on his own two feet.
Fuente certainly did damage to the program from a recruiting standpoint. But Pry played that card already - repair the damage in state. He won't get to play that again if he can't produce on the field. And sadly, the next guy wouldn't be able to play it either - Until he proves it on the field. If we can't get traction soon we risk falling into an extended dark age of irrelevance. Trying times for the program, indeed.
Repairing the damage in-state is still going to take time. If Pry came in and magically made all the relationships with in-state programs perfect in his first off-season, then the recruits we'd get from those relationships would be ... true freshmen. Reaping the rewards of in-state relationships is going to take a few years to come to fruition.
At least we are getting a bunch of young guys (freshmen and sophomores) on the field.
And hopefully we will hire Bryan Stinespring to help with this.
Tell me you don't understand how rosters are constructed without telling me how rosters are constructed.
Our recruiting was dogshit when the players we are playing now committed. We shouldn't be shocked that we are a dogshit program now when that dogshit recruiting is getting the bulk of minutes.
Keep banging the drum, my friend.
When we are 2-10 in 2026 and Tyler Bowen is still running Inside Zone into 8 man fronts, I'm sure we can still blame it on the new O.C. at North Texas, Justin Fuente.
Trust me, I am with you... I'm team "Bowen can pack his bags ASAP" but I will also say it's not a total surprise that our worst players are the Covid/5th/6th year seniors who were Fuente's recruits.
Lots of blame pie to be shared, but we are still experiencing Fuente's footprint on this program. But again, fuck Bowen too.
My concern is there is no discernible plan. Both O and D seem like they're stuck in mud. We keep dabbling here and there.
D - either blitz/pressure or sit back. We don't get push with 4-5, then leave receivers wide open. Somehow our LBs take one step forward then get washed away (if you hit the wrong hole, just going and create some havoc). Pry wants to create havoc. We do not even come close.
O - get to move faster. We look lost between lays. Then have slow developing plays for an OL that cannot block. Run short, quick plays with misdirection. Drones is a weapon when we gets rolled out and has run-pass option. We waste too many plays having him drop back (scramble for his life) while trying to make multiple reads. He should have a run option on every play, but then 1-2 read and go. I don't know if we can read the field...but our OL isn't going to give him time to time do so.
Damn this stings.
It was a close game, but I really thought VT would be more competitive tonight.
Coaching staff strategy is the Not To Lose playbook surrounded by cliche's in the post game and during the week. This is Fuente in game management with a better sales pitch.
1). Offense is obsessed with "staying on schedule" - see the last 3 offensive plays. We need to score and usually you score when you put pressure on the defense through better athletes or confusion - we have neither. In other words, if we need 2 yards for a first down we call a 2 yard play vs calling plays that out stress on the defense to defend the width of the field (we are EASY to scout).
2) Pry's situational management is abysmal and appears to be playing checkers vs chess. Others may disagree, but try and kick the fg and go up 10-0. Our offense wasn't blowing the doors off teams and we have struggled early. It's almost 4 yards and then all of the sudden we are aggressive. The risk reward there doesn't bear that out - we need points and he is bypassing good opportunities for that which changes the complexion of games.
3) game winning calls (offense) - any game winning play calls out there? Aka did we ever "go for their throat" in situations? No way - back to #1. We play on schedule which seems to be less pressure, but it's actually more when you have played at a high level. When you take shots to win the game that loosens everyone up and enables players to play better and maximize their potential - this psychology is real.
This team wins 3 or less and has to fire Bowen - mark it down. Much of his lack of success is Pry's strategy tying his hands (ex - anytime we score we rarely get more aggressive offensively with our play calling after scoring).
I would add that Marve's seat likely needs to be a bit warm after this season as well. There are moments when he seems to be making some adjustments. But his unit is absolutely abysmal, including is returning starters/players - I don't see very much player development and/or progress on that side of the ball either.
Marve's group seems woefully unprepared week in and week out, as if Marve doesn't completely understand how to game plan with his troops.
I think it's TBD, but yes consistency is lacking big time. The rushing defense is just a killer. They have had moments though - see 4th quarter today.
You can't win college games scoring < 20 points - period. Offense-philosophy is the bigger issue to date, but that could change.
What game so far has the defense not played well enough to win? They did enough vs Purdue and Marshall today.
They defense got two interceptions and several stops in a row. Chris Marve isn't Bud Foster, but the offense should be able to score more than 20 points in 2023. The defense is fine- not world class, but fine.
The offense that can't score more than 20 for 3 straight games? All of the offensive staff sans Mines should have a seat on fire
I think the home run plays and the lack of discipline are really the issues that has everyone ready to blow up the defense. The multiple penalties especially on 3rd downs extended several drives today. The homerun plays have been an issue in every game. It's consistently the right end/LB being targeted by opponents. The Book is out to run on us there.
Defense is also gassed by the end of 3rd since the offense can't stay on the field.
The offense, especially the line is the biggest issue.
100% agree. The offense affects everything else including the team's psychology. In college football today if you don't score 25-30+ you have a high probability of losing to most decent teams.
Bowen sucks, but Pry's philosophy for game management is ancient and holds the offense back (and they need everything they can get).
bringing the lone left side WR in motion = big run
Marve's unit shows some flashes... sporadically. But they are really bad. His scheme rarely has his players blitzing while we get zero pressure on the QB (this is against G5 and bottom feeder P5 teams). Additionally, the secondary is absolutely lost in pass coverage. Additionally, the LBs are likely the worst LB unit in all of D1 football. Additionally, I'm not sure I've ever seen a more inept tackling defense at VT in 30+ years (maybe once a few years ago)...
Marve's defense hasn't played particularly well in any game to answer your question. Have they been OK? Sure. Have they had some good moments? Yes. But overall his unit is dreadful.
EDIT: if the scheme is so incredibly complex that even two year starters in said scheme/system can't figure it out, then maybe there's a coaching issue.
Are you asking the defense with an offense that can't score more than 20 points to hold teams to 17 or less? Yes, they had some bad penalties and moments.... But Marshall scored only 24. They intercepted 2 passes. Why can't the offense put up at least 24 points given they won the turnover margin?
I'm not saying these guys are world class... but to say the biggest issue isn't on the other side seems off. Marve is... fine. Which, right now, I'm okay with.
It seems like we aren't having the same conversation... I never said, anywhere in any thread, that the defense was the biggest issue...
I mean, you're saying the defense is abysmal and that Marve's seat needs to be warm, which I do not agree is the case.
This is what you stated above. I never said that. I also did not say...
What I said, in the context of an entire post, was...
Words and nuance are important when having a conversation with someone. It's completely fine for someone to disagree with me, I hope they do from time to time as that is part of what makes the world go round. However, disagreeing with me regarding something I never said/wrote is an entirely different thing.
I fully stand behind that statement. His players have shown zero improvement or progress from last season to this, and if that trend continues, yes, his seat should be warm by seasons end.
You always take the points off turnovers... I like being aggressive, but there's a time and place for everything. For a team that is struggling to score, you need to take the FG and not give them the momentum back.
I could not disagree more. I think Pry should've gone for it instead of settling for the FG that he did.
Also, I think the play in question might've been a 40ish yard FG? That's not automatic points for a college kicker - another factor that could've contributed.
If I remember correctly, they did go for it and decided a pass into triple coverage 30 yards down the field on a 4th and 3... that is lunacy. Want to go for it, Bowen needs to scheme up a play where you get your players open 4-5+ years minimum down the field. Get the first down first, then do the long/big play.
And yes, you're correct when the points are automatic, but what's also not automatic and just plainly stupid is drawing up a play like they did in that situation. If that's the play, I'd like them to attempt the FG to go up 10-0
There was a 4th & 3 on the 31 that we went for... that's a 48 yard kick? Definitely make sense to go for it.
Assuming you remember correctly, I'm guessing this is an execution error by Drones. If someone is triple covered, then - by definition - at least one other player should be wide open (which might mean that Bowen actually drew up a pretty good play).
Would be interested to see the play design.
Why is that though? We were told our kicker was making it from 55 in pregame, and our offense has yet to show us when they need a money play to get a first down, they can dial it up.
Let's put some numbers on this... Let's say:
Now, figuring out the odds/value of each option:
I'll just take your numbers for granted... all I am saying is an offense that massively struggles to score needs to take as many points as they get when the opportunity presents itself.
They could have missed the FG. They could have turned it over on the next play or later in the drive resulting in 0 points. Both can be true.
But what I know to be true is no one trusts this Bowen-led offense.
And if I remember the play correctly, Drones could have easily run for the 1st down and have picked it up, because he had at least 5 yards of free space ahead of him. It was a good playcall, and the execution of it was off.
Yeah this was a bad play by Drones we were in a 5 wide set and the throw went into triple coverage statistically someone was wide open and the run was probably there too.
Not only was it five wide but the defense only rushed three with no spy at the down to gain. Just bad decisions all around from Bowen calling play and Drones choice of execution.
Damn, don't you think asking our guys to be open for that long is a little much? They're not Danny Coale.
im not even going to edit it, good catch lol
On the other hand, it's hard to cover a receiver for that long too.......but we'd need our OL to build an actual brick wall to keep the front four of the D out.....
The only offensive play call that really got under my skin was the 4th and ... 13? screen pass. At least TRY to go downfield in that situation.
Pretty sure statistically speaking a run or screen has the highest chance of converting on 3rd and 4th and long actually
That play call was shit. Throw it downfield, hope for the completion or maybe you get a PI to bail you out. Just like they did on 3rd down early in the 3rd quarter which then lead to a TD.
Pretty sure we were just trying to get a few yards closer so we could punt it
This doesn't even add up to 60 minutes but you get the point.
Is 3-9, 2-10, 6-6 an acceptable progression from this staff?
In that scenario it depends on year 4 result. However, I don't see anything now that indicates 6-6 is in the cards for next season.
There's no way Whit fires Pry after this year though? We'd owe both him and the staff a whole lot of money, plus getting the bad rep for firing a guy after year 2 of what was known to be a tough rebuild
No chance pry gets fired this year
If Pry doesn't work out, Whit shouldn't hire his replacement.
Pry will absolutely get a year 3, I am just saying I haven't seen a single thing that makes me think it's going to get better. Virginia Tech has gotten worse since beating ODU. Pry looks completely over his head and both coordinators are learning on the job.
Part of me thinks it would be best to get rid of Whit at least a year in advance of firing Pry/ahead of Pry's hot seat year.
Wouldn't really want AD and football HC being hired at the same time.
If basketball and the other sports are good do we really get rid of Whit just because he whiffed on two football hires, both of which looked good at the time
Football is what makes the athletic department the most money. I understand that Virginia Tech academics and student life need to/should take priority over sports, but Whit's most important job is making sure the money is flowing into the athletic department, if this football enhancement fund won't result in better results with Whit as AD, he will need to go.
I can respect him for building up the non football sports during his tenure, but VT can get an AD that maintains what Whit helped build on that side while making football better.
I also like Pry as a human and hope it ends up working out, but even before a single practice, he was not labeled as a great hire and kind of came out of left field.
He's the type of guy that would be perfect to bring VT back to prominence and he killed the press conference, but no one was clamoring for him/he wasn't in the national conversation or labeled a great hire like Fuente was.
Yeah exactly, two bad hires in the highest priority sport in the AD is going to overshadow all that other good. Maybe if we had won national titles in some of the non-revs in the meantime (and therefore justifying prioritizing investments in those sports) he would get some more leeway, but unfortunately that hasn't happened.
Whit can't be the one making the next football hire if Pry fails
When we inevitably do the post mortem on the Pry era I think one of the key mistakes we identify will be the lack of experience in the coaching staff. Particularly at the coordinator spots.
It's no secret that I haven't liked the Bowen hire from day 1. I wasn't jazzed about Marve but I was less concerned about it since defense was in Pry's wheel house. Ultimately, though, I think Pry's failure to surround himself with proven, experienced, coaches will be his undoing.
Sounds like Whit let his staff make the hire from the ESPN article. So he's only 0 for 1 /s
Agreed. No chance. And realistically (regardless of our collective frustration with losing) it would be flat out wrong to do so.
I am still team Pry at this point.
I think so (assuming we somehow get to 6-6). Depends on how recruiting goes, but assuming it continues to climb 3-5 spots each year I'm good with it.
I think it buys him another year. It also depends on a lot of context.
What does our 2024 schedule look like? (A tough earned 6-6 is better than a 6-6 on a cupcake schedule). What changes were made to improve from 2-10 to 6-6? Did we learn from and evolve past a lot of the issues plaguing us so far? Or did we just get lucky on a few results and the issues still exist? Did we make coaching changes or did the coaches revamp their approach? How's the 2025 recruiting class shaping up?
I think those questions would need to point to that 6-6 turning into even more positive growth.
Virginia Tech Head Football Coach Brent Pry lost this game today. None of the team looks cohesive, we aren't tough, we aren't fast, the scheme is questionable on both sides of the ball. There doesn't seem to be any noticeable improvement as far as in game execution goes.
It's Pry's ship now. Going with Marve and Bowen as coordinators was a risky move, and I think we're seeing the fallout from that. He's a first time head coach that's taking his lumps.
But to those saying the "Fuente butchered this team" excuse is getting old are forgetting that the reason this roster is so bad, is Fuente. It's not an excuse, he DID butcher roster construction, HS relationships, locker room mentality etc etc etc. I truly believe there isn't a coach in the country that could take the reeking shit sandwich Fu left us and turn it into a winning team in 2 seasons.
So where we're at is a roster that was fucked from Pry Era Day 1, a coaching staff with minimal experience being the "leaders" (albeit promising up and coming coaches), and a recruiting trail that will take time to fix. Truly, what recruit WANTS to come to Blacksburg right now? We aren't any more attractive than ANY other team in the state or our region. Winning brings recruits, recruits bring winning. We have (had) neither. I really hate to say this, it's a tough pill to swallow. I doubt we pull out of this hole. It's too deep.
Say what you want about the administration, coaches, players, but the fact remains that for decades we haven't put into the program (either from fan apathy, admin dragging feet idc) what was needed to continue succeeding at even a level of a Top 25 program. We fell too far behind. We rested on our laurels and buried our heads in the sand. Some have been screaming this for awhile, and were scoffed at. But the reckoning is here. VT football is a bottom P5 program.
Love my Hokies. Always have, always will. But this is the harsh, sad reality. Fuck every last bit of it too.
It's just frustrating because you can argue Duke was in an even worse spot than we were and yet they turned it around immediately under Elko. I also feel like Elko went far more aggressive in the portal (particularly on the offensive line) which helped him out a lot.
Also it was Pry's choice to hire first time defensive and offensive coordinators. We have the 4th highest coaching budget in the ACC and Pry didn't go for any experienced coordinators to help lighten the load a bit.
I think Fuente is definitely still partially to blame but i'm not convinced Pry has done enough to help curb some of the short term issues at least
It was third highest when announced, fourth highest within a week, and after one season was down to 7th highest
From Grayson Wimbish's "X"....lol made me laugh
Scarier than our Defense ....
This season hurts, Fam. But I spent the time after the game ended helping to build a crib and a dresser 2 days after feeling my soon to be baby boy kick for the first time. Helped give me a whole lot of perspective.
I don't have high hopes for next weekend but I will be back in Blacksburg for the first time since 2019 with friends I don't get to see very often. I still can't wait!
We might be good by the time your kid is talking....congrats though.
I've been joking hopefully it's only up after he's born. Thanks!
Sands and the school administration are more concerned with making VT into an oversized school of 49,000 students to build light bulbs than provide any necessary focus on football.
Whit, while likeable, has shit the bed on these two football hires and seems more concerned with Olympic sport success.
Pry, while very likeable, is clearly over his head as head coach. I think he's probably a pretty good recruiter and assistant coach. But he sure as hell doesn't know how to hire coordinators or put forth a team on the field any of us can be excited for.
The players... I don't know? I'd guess none of them start at any other top 25 team.
It's one giant steaming pile of smelly dog shit, that has been growing since 2016. Its at it's biggest and most ripe right now.
I don't see how VT football crawls out of this hole and I don't see any reason to go to games any more. I'll probably go tailgate and visit old friends and then drink a rail at Tots. But why would I spend money on tickets to see this shit show?
No administration is above critique but this assertion is categorically untrue. We've hit our growth/enrollment target and aren't looking at any substantial increase. President Sands has directly said "I'm not trying to turn Virginia Tech into Ohio State, no matter what people think." Source: me, when he said this to the Faculty Senate when questioned about this topic by a fellow senator.
Yeah, like I said elsewhere, Sands is fighting an uphill battle at VT for any number of reasons, some of which are legitimate. Many of which are based on cultural expectations which Berkeley, left-coast Sands fails to meet.
There is absolutely no evidence, NONE, that Sands doesn't want football to succeed. The fact that this sentiment keeps coming up is a symptom of both frustration and an institutional bias against Sands.
I don't think anyone thinks that Sands doesn't want football to succeed. I think the concern fans have (which is likely unfounded) is that Sands doesn't care if we're 11-3 or 7-6.
What do you think the job of a university president is? To my read, it's fundraising, administration, strategic direction, and more fundraising. Football being good isn't directly on that list, but if you think he doesn't understand how that -- how donors feel about the biggest front door the university has -- affects fundraising you're out of your mind.
Just about the first thing he did when his hiring was announced was to establish a new Twitter handle that directly referenced our best-known football tradition. The guy isn't clueless. His position vis-a-vis athletics is difficult because his primary lever is on the AD job, and Whit's hit home runs on damn near everything but the football hires.
What are you considering "substantial"? I know that my particular college is wanting to accept more students, but they can't because the university has set limits to curb enrollment. My understanding from what has been told to our administration is that the state is trying to keep our enrollment down to prevent all the smaller Virginia colleges from going under.
It is my opinion, not fact, that VT always has interest in increasing enrollment, but can't due to several factors: state limitations, housing, parking, classrooms, faculty
I mean that the admin's goal was to increase enrollment to its current level by this year. Meaning they hit it (actually early, as of last year). There is no systematic plan to continue growing but as everyone knows, enrollment could increase if there's a fluky year where a lot more people accept admissions offers than we expect. So enrollment might go up but it's not like it's a goal at the moment.
Housing in Blacksburg is rapidly becoming unaffordable. The university is working on a new student housing village that will be great but I suspect housing will remain an issue. The bus system is strained, as is town infrastructure. The university is cognizant of this, of course. So we're going to stay where we are for the foreseeable future. Blacksburg will never support a mega university so all this wild criticism of Sands is pretty foolish, anyway.
The man spends his time putting out fires, fundraising, and (again in his own words, which I just heard on Friday), spending about 50% of his time dealing with the state government and the various things being demanded of him there.
Just getting back on here, several days after your response.
Thank you very much for the info. It's interesting that he has to address it, as it's obviously a common thought amongst fans, students alumni and it appears, faculty.
What is the target enrollment? Does it grow every year?
30k undergrads was the target set a few years ago, with a goal of having this many students enrolled by Fall 2023 (now). We hit that number last year with 30,434 students enrolled. I do not know what the current undergrad enrollment is exactly but it's about 30k. Add 7k graduate and professional students (some not on the Blacksburg campus) and VT enrollment is on the order of 37k.
The target does not grow every year. We have reached the population we aimed for about five years ago. Without massive increases in available housing, town infrastructure, etc. VT isn't getting bigger. It's possible in the more distant future but we have no plans to try to systematically increase enrollment. Applications are WAY up because of our participation in a common application system and we are being more selective than ever, though we use a holistic admissions process that doesn't reduce every applicant to their GPA and SAT score. But it's a dynamic landscape and VT is more popular than ever.
At this point it feels like I've lost all memory of what it was like to watch a Tech game on Saturday and walk away feeling good about what we had just fielded.
Literally nothing about this team is competent. The staff in my opinion (including Pry) have left a lot to be desired. This Wells/Drones "we have two QB's" nonsense has been a disaster from day one imo, and it really calls into question Pry's mentality to me. You end up destroying the confidence of whoever you actually do start by not just coming out and naming them QB1. It tells your starter that you don't have confidence in them, and it strings your second guy along unnecessarily.
It's exactly this kind of wishy washy indecisiveness that defines this staff and this team right now. We're a P5 program. Let's get our shit together and act like it.
I understand the frustration in this thread. I am also sick and tired of losing and looking incompetent.
I don't have a ton of football expertise, but to my untrained eye, I think this team is genuinely improving, even if it hasn't improved enough yet. I think we're going to win a few close ballgames by the end of the year.
I don't have hard data to support my prediction, but I'm putting it out there now. We're beating Pitt next week.
I love the optimism (my son is the exact same way), but we aren't going to be close to beating Pitt next week.
However, if we do, I'll crack open my bottle of E.H. Taylor Single Barrel that I found in Ohio last week!
Pitt is not good this year. Buttttt we aren't either
at the former players' twitter space, someone said that we could take nc state because "they dont have any talent"
eric kumah straight laughed in his face and reminded him that people are licking their chops over us right now
Correct. We are not good. But Pitt isn't either and one of those two teams will get a win next week.
I think we're going to sneak up on someone before November and Pitt seems the most vulnerable to me.
Love the optimism but Pitt is going to maul us in the treches.
After watching Clements get ragdolled by a 240 LB DE today, I anticipate Drones to be running for his life and a double-digit YPC average for Pitt.
My my opinion this is the softest Tech team since 1973.
Just saw the end of the Idaho/Sac State game. Fucking Idaho has LED lights in their stadium. Forget about UVA having them and not us. Fucking FCS Idaho has them.
I'd take an FBS caliber offensive line before the LED lights
The Kibbie Dome is lit (literally)
We took a field trip to Hubbell lighting when I was growing up. They had just redone the stadium lights and were showing off the schematics to us. I remember them talking about how long the giant bulbs took to warm up; it was about the same amount of time as our TV at home.
My understanding is that they will be coming eventually. I heard from someone that works at Hubble that the no one is manufacturing halogen lights anymore (I think federal regulations). There is currently a secondary market (all of UVA's old lights will be sold to someone else that needs them) but eventually everyone will be switching over to LED.
So you are saying kerosene lamps in Lane stadium in the next few years? Sweet!
Lights light the same? Lol
The image in my head says that would look pretty awesome, I mean not for seeing football, but awesome for pure imagery reasons.
EXIT LIGHT ENTER NIGHT
via GIPHY
I believe we're going to end the year with double-digit losses.
I believe we'll be looking for a new head coach in two years
Is this directed towards the fans or the team?
In this thread alone we're firing Pry, all the coaches, Whit, Sands and half the players.
I mean, get a grip. If it was so easy there would be a million Nick Sabans.
The worst thing about the Pry tenure is that the players so far have no idea how to win football games.
ODU last year. Georgia Tech. NC State tried to give us that damn game and we politely refused to accept. Purdue. I can tolerate getting out-talented in some games while we repair the recruiting, but choking over and over again in games we have a chance to win? It's horrible and it's not getting better.
Also, fire Tyler Bowen into the sun and get me someone, anyone, who has called a college football offense before and doesn't need babysitting Pry doesn't have the capacity to give him. P5, G5, I don't care, someone who can recognize and adjust his playcalling to the capabilities of the players who are available that week, and who can read and react intelligently to game trends and changes in the defense rather than getting his players eaten alive after the half by any defensive coordinator with two brain cells to rub together.
Totally agree on Bowen. Lack of situational recognition in combination with a lack of recognition of his players' best strengths and what to call and when to call it.
Our play calling resembles a high school offense based on the basic run game and the lack of variation and innovation.
Ex - we are running the ball reasonably well early and using some misdirection well, so what do we do? Drop back pocket passing tree with a QB where that is definitely not his strength yet. Additionally this puts more pressure on the inexperienced offensive line.
Fuente's Corn = Pry's Bowen. Get out now or the ending is the same.
I've been mulling over the game for a bit. And all I gotta say is I hope Pry has some actual dogs coming in the next class. Because I don't think this coaching staff is capable of breaking the losing mentality that's been infused into the program from top to bottom the last decade.
You can see it on the field, there might 2 or 3 players on each side of the ball that actually believe they can win the game. They definitely aren't quitting, but they ain't got it.
Rebuild timeline:
Year 1: Lose big
Year 2: Lose Small
Year 3: Win Small
Year 4: Win big
Right on track for year 2
This is all. Hard to win with a brand new starting QB, your two best receivers out, and best safety out.
You can add worst FBS offensive line to that list as well.
Lol. Ok
I doubt we can fix this offensive line that fast.
Pry hired a bunch of coordinators with no experience. Elko is turning things around at Duke.
Fucking ridiculous
Here's how bad things are..
Simple question...with the current team, could Justin Fuente be winning more games?
I'm not asking if Fuente is a better guy than Pry, if he could recruit or if he could manage the rosters, fans, or media better...he couldn't.
But I think if we are being honest with ourselves this really isn't an easy question to answer...and that's what scares the hell out of me going forward.
Keep in mind as well that as much as Justin Hamilton got flak for lack of experience before being DC, Marve at best has a minimally more impressive resume.
I genuinely don't think so.
Why worry about a terrible ex GF just because your current one sucks
A lot of the upper class men are Fuentes boys. Your seeing just as much of where Fuente's program was heading as you are seeing Pry right now
Woo this is fun
I started watching VT football in '98. I've been die hard since. Have watched nearly every game in that span.
I don't think I'll watch any more this season.
EDIT: Because I'm old and have nothing better to do at 8pm on a Saturday, I'll tune in for Pitt.
I understand. And it is hard going through what we are going through. You sound tired and you may need to take a break. Check back in 2026, I think we'll be ready for you then.
My background... born in Detroit, life long Lions fan and VT grad in 94/96. So, I have serious street cred when it comes to being a loyal fan. I showed up in Blacksburg and watched the disaster that was VT football in 1990. And then of course Frank turned it around. He was a man of high character and I believe Pry has those some traits. Let's play the long game here folks and build a program around a coach who has a great work ethic, loves the community and exudes strong character. He may make a few mistakes as he grows things (like Frank did) but his definition of the finish line is no different and it takes longer to build things that last. He is focused on building the program by first establishing deep roots in the state. This is a winning formula. How about we not do the modern day thing accepting only instant gratification and freak out week to week and support the guy for a few years before we want to jump ship? Wouldn't that be different? Wouldn't players notice a fan base that loves the Burg, loves the School and doesn't throw darts at every opportunity looking to find a scapegoat? Come on folks!
Oh... and go Lions!
The only positive I have is remembering I put money on Marshall -5 at the beginning of the week
I'm going to just put this here and I'm sure most people are going to hate it but it needs to be said.
"Fire coach xxx" is the kindergarten statement of criticism. It provides no real reason or real solution to the problem. It is all noise and nothing else, no substance and not even productive.
I've seen it enough the past couple weeks that I'm most likely not going to be around much since this is the majority of discussion here now.
No, this absolutely did not "need to be said." I'll say to you what I thought and said about so many during the Fuente era: if you're more irritated by the fans commenting than the product on the field, you're majorly out of whack.
By all means, if you have better ideas, share them. Otherwise, bye Felicia.
"Fire the OC" is not commenting on the product on the field, but if you want to comment on how running up the middle isn't working then I'm ok with that. What that doesn't mean is that because we don't do something different when a fan wants the coaching staff to do, then the coach needs to be fired. If all of the fans knew more about running a college offense then why don't they go get a job as an OC somewhere. Actually go send their resume to Pry and see if they get an interview for the OC position the next time it comes open. Bowen's contract ends next year.
Lower expectations to reality and not offseason hype. Bad football teams don't win football games alot. We are a bad football team. Pry has told everyone "We are not where we need to be right now."
But let's play out firing our OC in year 2 of a full program rebuild. How many current Offense players hit the portal that committed because of our OC? (more than 0) How many current committed recruits de-commit because they don't know our new OC? How many recruits are now not recruits because our new OC doesn't see them as a fit or the recruit doesn't like the new OC? How many portal players actually want to come to Tech to play for the new OC? We thought this staff was going to hit the portal hard and get a new team, didn't happen. Where does that leave us for on the field talent and experience? I'd say about where we are right now and it never gets better in 2 year cycles.
Also what good OC will come to Tech with expectations of 10 wins a season with this current roster knowing you only have a couple more games than a full season to do this? I can't think of any.
How about we support what we have and that way we can sell how we support our own to new recruits. Why don't we try and help the coaches in a way that we can as fans. Not give them another obstacle or hurdle they needs to be overcome. Sellout crowds have helped with as many recruits that have been at the games. Probably close to a full football team at each game, it's nuts(I'm always just astounded by the amount of people for logistics to handle that many people outside of the regular football team) and never seen that many at a game under Fuente. That is an environment that everyone talks up and it's something the fans can continue to show up and support the entire team. Let's keep doing more of this outside of gamedays.
First of all, props for a substantial and well thought out reply instead of doubling down on your OP, I wasn't expecting that and am pleasantly surprised. So, leg for that.
I still don't entirely agree, though. I haven't said outright that anyone needs to be fired this year, but I think the issues people are noticing go beyond simply not doing "what the fans want." We're a quarter of the way through the season. This team has regressed since opening night, and where it hasn't regressed, it's stagnated. Sure, injuries play a part, but there's been enough headscratching on-field moments that maybe some coaching staff seats need to start getting warm.
Unfortunately, we are SO bad that at times it obscures what's bad playcalling and what's bad execution. It's the same problem we had for most of Stiney's tenure as OC, but in the opposite direction. And there's not one direct cause to anything, it's all just a massive dung heap rolling downhill, I get it.
All the same, I can't hold fans grumbling about firing people against them. It's a natural reaction to watching such unbelievably bad football.
I'm also struggling to remember exactly what "preseason hype" there was. That we'd win 5 games instead of 3? I'm not sure that's a high enough number to count as true hype.
Many of the potential problems you mention in your third paragraph may well happen anyway over a longer time period if this staff remains in place, but because of what IS known rather than what is unknown. Yes, the team is still fighting to the end, but I worry that won't last if they don't notch a win here or there.
And by and large I think the fanbase, at least offline, has been doing exactly what you suggest they do. But if the on field results don't come, I worry that won't last either.
We might have to agree to disagree here, but seriously, thank you for not being ugly in your reply. I really appreciate it.
I tend to agree. I'm not opposed to someone suggesting that Coach X needs to be fired, but it's much more interesting when they provide a more substantial argument explaining why Coach X is failing, why a new coach would be more effective, and give some (plausible) options for replacing Coach X.
We need to raid the portal for linemen.
I remember when our team would get angry about losing or locker room material and then take it out on the next team up. I would like to get back there again.
Full disclosure: I did state on here and had a "pray-able", "gleeful" belief that we could possibly win 6 and go bowling this year. Hind sight, this "belief" was mostly driven by the desire to be relevant again. The fact of the matter is, this roster is way too young and possesses too many players who are not P5 caliber. If I were to speak figuratively for a moment and equated our team's talent in "FTE's"., we are probably playing 9-10 FTE's vs 11 at best. Just look at the roster alone.
No matter how one slices it, that won't win games. Add the injuries. Add a new QB who has played in a total of 7 games before coming to the Burg. One off season of portal hunting is the start to a rebuild, not the finished product. Heck., the portal is never a finished product. It's ever fluid. So, we need two more cycles of this which will allow for the hopeful better HS recruits to come of age and compliment.
I don't want to lose and I want our beloved Hokies to win. With that being said, I did see moments I liked very much in yesterday's game in between all the pain. For example, I liked our run stats. Much improved. Drones and Tuten are a looking more like a solid legitimate threat opponents will have to respect and game plan for.
So, having come down from my "Hope and Pray for" perch, my expectations at the beginning of the season were more unrealistic. After the Purdue game, I moved to dissecting the game and totally ignoring W&L's. I'm still of this mindset. A win for me this season is icing on the cake. I'm prepared to eat dry cake this season. Damn, I should have been a pie guy.
Fire everybody.
In all seriousness I have no idea the answer it seems like aside from throwing a billion dollars at the program and going full on portal mode we're just going to be bad at football forever.
It's systemic. No coach will fix it. VT just isn't committed to football. It's a good ol boys club now and we have no chance of being good again until the entire organization is flipped on its head and completely rebuilt. I think sometimes we under appreciate just how good Beamer and Foster were. The fact they were able to win at all is kind of amazing tbh
To be honest, and with a day's hindsight, the only things* that were that were completely agregious and need to be hammered hard this week were the scrambling qb's decision to force a throw into triple coverage on 4th own rather than just simply taking the wide open grass in front of you, and the absolute killer false start on the last drive (there needs to be something serious done about this one too jfc).
* yes, I know the run defense is putrid, as is the theme this year
The undisciplined penalties at the worst possible times (i.e.third down over and over bailing them out on defense when we had them stopped on, only to give up enormous gains on the next play or two) were a HUGE part of why we lost this game, regardless of the general play on both sides of the ball. Those were backbreaking mistakes. Is that because of individuals execution mistakes or coaching to blame? Probably 60-70% of the former and 30-40% of the latter.
That is pure execution.
The throw into triple coverage was a bad choice, but I actually didn't hate that Drones continued to look downfield while scrambling on that 4th down. For years we've been begging for a QB that would do that instead of immediately panic scrambling into the teeth of the defense. It just so happens that this time it bit us that he didn't pull it down.
I would also say that Drones seemed to learn a lesson there and started throwing balls away later in the game when nothing was open, instead of trying to laser the ball into a tiny window while rolling to the sideline.
Drones has pretty consistently been good at throwing it away if he's flushed from pocket and there are no open receivers and no running lanes. I'm pretty happy to see that.
I agree. The bad thing is how many times he's forced into a situation where he has to do that.
Going out on a limb again and guessing going to Turkey Hill Experience to make ice cream as opposed to watching football on Saturday was the right call.
Someone made a good point that a lot of times have COVID seniors on them and we are playing 5 true freshman.
We play like a young team. That is forgiveable.
What bothers me is that we fired a guy who hired "his" guys, would not make changes. We hired a guy that hired "his" guys, right now I can't confidently say our HC and assistants are P5 average coaches. The only thing that is different between last season and this one is that the team has a bit more fight, which is admirable. But the same dumb things are happening in all phases.
Also, at this point its time to sit seniors who aren't making plays and just play youth, which ended up happening vs. Marshall to some extent.
Not remotely the same. Fuente hired guys he coached with at Illinois St, took to Memphis with him, and then to VT. Almost half of these coaches are guys Pry has never coached with before (Mines, Crook, Brooks, Cheetah, JC). Additionally, every person on this staff has spent time coaching under different staffs prior to this one - again, this is completely differently than the incestuous groupthink that plagued Fuente teams.
I don't know where to put this thought...but this seems like as good a spot as any.
IF Pry doesn't work out, bring in Mike Vick as head coach and go all Coach Prime levels of rebuild.
Orrrr don't try to reinvent the wheel or find a diamond in the rough and hire a proven P5 coach and coordinators.
Of the 70ish P5 schools, only 18 employ someone who was a P5 HC prior to Ben b hired at their current role:
I could go through this list in detail, but IMO it's pretty clear - there's only three ways to land a past P5 HC:
VT can't afford to do the first. Regarding the second, We don't have any connections with sitting P5 HCs. That leaves us with the third - personally, I'd rather hire an unknown quantity than a retread.
We can absolutely afford to outbid Kansas for Leipold. What you're saying is only true if there are other schools on the market that can outbid us. And it's not always pure dollar figures either
I mean, that's kinda my point. Any coach we'd want to hire will (presumably( have other suitors. So, either we:
Leipold falls into none of those buckets. Also, he and wife supposedly really like Manhattan, and aren't in a rush to leave.
Man that's a commute- over an hour from work and you have to drive through Topeka twice a day. Nobody likes any town in Kansas that much!
Okay that was funny, take your damn leg. I'm too lazy to correct my OP
I've seen this idea floated a lot, so for folks who dream of Vick becoming a coach, realize he has a long road to being eligible. Convicted felons are ineligible for public employment in VA unless they go through the process of having their rights restored and request the ability to be employed by a public entity.
I know people will differ in their opinion of Mike having paid his debt to society and all, but this is what I understand from a strictly legal/procedural perspective. Not a lawyer, though, so I could be missing some finer aspects of the law.
Wrong Alum - Darryl Tapp would be the move here imho. Electric personality, knows how to recruit Virginia, legit NFL pedigree coaching on one of if not the best defensive lines in the league right now. He'd be dumb to take it, but I legit think if Pry didn't work out, why not 🤷♂️
Or the (hopefully future) namesake of the athletic dorms, DeAngelo Hall.
I don't see any scenario where Pry can keep his job without firing some coordinators.
Someone has to be held responsible.
The comments about "going away from the run" and stuff are inane. The play callers work for you, coach.
HE could hold the players responsible and replace them via portal and recruiting.
Line next week is Pitt -2. Get rich folks
Does someone wanna explain to me why Bowen called 20 pass plays and 10 run plays in the first half, when BY HIS OWN ADMISSION Drones is a qb that isnt fully polished as a thrower but is a fantastic athlete. WE HAD 11 YARDS PER RUSH IN THE FIRST HALF AND THIS MAN CALLS TWICE AS MANY PASS PLAYS PLEASE HELP ME.
Didnt we also call THREE pass plays in a row from a First and Goal scenario...? A running QB is most dangerous in Goal-line to go and 3rd down scenarios, and we call 3 passes. Get me off this god damn merry go round
My impression of the play calling is that Bowen is constantly trying to play Rock Paper Scissors/ out anticipate the opposing DC. "They know we have a running qb so when we pass, they won't see it coming."
In effect, he's just play calling against our few strengths, because he thinks we have a better chance catching them off-guard(we don't) than leaning on our kind of strong points.
Watching the film review, I was shaking like a dog shitting peach seeds. Good Pheldarious Payne. Good Keonta Jenkins when not hurt. And A-1 stinker all around otherwise.
dont hold back, tell us how you really feel
What are they coaching?
Not talented players, that is for sure.
Who needs to go then?
Can we upgrade across the board at linebacker? I'm interested to why we haven't heard Aycen Stephen's name in the rotation. Can a guy that physically gifted be that far behind who we have now?
Defensive End clearly needs it too. And we'd probably like to add one D tackle from the portal.
Then offensive line is clearly the worst group but we have to give the young guys a chance to develop right? Can we really cut guys like Clements, the Moore brothers, Schick or Frady who have so many career snaps. I'm told the portal doesn't give us very many options to replace them.
Outside of those positions we have talent. Would you disagree?
Think Stephen is still recovering from a torn ACL late senior season, and also there's talk about him ended up at DE based on his size
I normally don't like to do this, but the following guys would be gone (even if it makes the product worse in the short term.)
Tisdale
Kendricks
Lofton
Anyone besides Chaplin on the OL
Wright (wait until the film review)
Other players (Pollard, Fuga, Nelson, McCray, Peoples, Jenkins) are needed now because of a lack of depth, but you could make an argument that none have significantly improved during their time in the program. At best, marginally.
And any other recruit that came in under Fuente should have a very serious analysis done regarding sustained effort in games, practice effort, and locker room communication.
I am not sold on the coaches, but when players are making the same mistakes and not improving regardless of what you are teaching, they are telling you exactly who they are. As coaches, listen to them.
VT going have to portal in a bunch of DL and OL, at least a Mike, and probably a TE this offseason.
"We have to get those young guys reps."
I think Pry sees it and it will be interesting to see how the rest of the season goes for the upperclassmen. IDK exactly what the scholarship and eligibility numbers are for Fuente recruits, but I have to imagine very few are left after the next round of portalling.
🤞The young talent is being taught well and can supplant the current dead weight. It was rough watching the same starters all season last year make no improvement and I don't want to have to sit through that again.
VT is doing that at most positions, but not all. I don't think any DT with remaining eligibility beyond this year is getting any reps besides Pene. Three of the OL are juniors, but I don't think any of the freshmen are besides Chaplin and younger Moore are getting reps. Going to be rough 2024 unless those positions can get stitched up in the offseason.
Brody Meadows has been working in at guard. I know there was talk about Ghannam getting reps, but I'm not sure he has. Either way though you're right DL and OL will almost definitely need some assistance from transfers.
Can't burn Ghannam's shirt this season and as a true freshman he needs to focus on gaining size and not missing big squat Friday.
Soon as we're down to our last 3/4 games I expect to see him get some burn
I guess the question becomes this...is it more counterproductive not to play these young guys?
I know we're trying to build for the future, but at some point, as losses mount and the VT Program becomes increasingly irrelevant--isn't the task of rebuilding the Roster getting harder?
I don't know whether or not Ghannem is ready enough to be effective but I know Clements and the Moore bros. aren't the answer and the sooner they aren't taking snaps for us the better.
Issue is...we slow-play these young OL, they begin to show some promise and then dip out in the Portal because they aren't interested in hanging around for a 3 win program..then we end up back at square 1.
You have to trust/hope that those conversations are had between the staff and the recruits/young players re expectations, desires, and willingness to wait around.
This team is really freaking bad and I don't know what to think. I watch a lot of USC (Trojan-variety) as an alum of there too and the contrast between VT and USC is stark. Maybe it's not fair to compare the two teams, but USC has star players everywhere and VT has none. I don't know, it just seems like VT and USC are in different leagues.
But it's not just personnel. VT pretty much played their peers last 3 weeks and looked more bad than good. They have flashes of potential, but the team just struggles in so many areas, especially offense. The coaches are not showing the ability to outcoach their competition. So, it seems clear to me that even when VT gets better personnel, this coaching staff will have a ceiling of 6-8 win seasons.
And so I think it's important to not only assess the talent, but the expectation we should have for their current personnel. After week 4, VT is 80th in SP+ (51st in Sp. Teams; 54th in Defense; 97th in Offense). Does VT have the rank that would be expected for its personnel?
Personally, I think the defense rank matches its personnel but the offense rank is behind. Drones and the O-line aren't great, but are they the 97th best QB/OL combo? For comparison, the only P5 offenses worse are Stanford (98th), Iowa St. (101st), Iowa (108th), Northwestern (110th), and UVA (113th).
It's only year 2, but Pry will need to reflect on the fact that with the given personnel, they're still underachieving. And so he will need to find a way to improve both player personnel and coach personnel.
It's not
I think this is the crux of the issue. I was looking for a top 80 offense per SP+ this year. Still possible but I'm not confident.
Anybody see what Charles Huff said about Virginia Tech after the game?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/marshall-football-coach-destroys...
I saw it live and didn't take it as Huff trying to take a shot at VT.
He and Pry are supposedly friendly and I don't think this was meant as a disguised insult. He's trying to compliment his team for beating a team from a "higher level."
Honestly, he may have just been trying to educate the viewers as there is little to nothing in watching this team play that would suggest they belong in P5.
Edit: and second thought---don't like opposing G5 coaches celebrating in post-game interviews?
Beat them. Don't help them with repeated stupid penalties, don't let their DE throw your RT to the ground despite a 50lb weight advantage, don't give up 50+ yd runs repeatedly.
Don't want to be the butt of the joke? Don't be a joke on the field.
If these kids and coaches want to look like a joke on the field they better have thick skin, but unfortunately, I do not think they really care. The coaches are paid and the kids are getting free school, food, room and board, and the AD will not do anything about the sorry on-field product.
Mr Huff, you and the thundering herd have never even been relevant in FBS football before and EVERYONE knows that.
Huff spoke the truth. It is embarrassing to watch this team flop around like a fish on the field
For what ever reason, our guys don't look like they are having any enjoyment playing their games. Maybe they're too seriously trying to do the right technique during the game instead of letting practice learned technique flow freely in the game. It's the old brain in the way of their feet deal, I fear.
So because I'm seeing a lot of people calling for heads to roll and people to be fired based on the team now.
Ain't happening. If we were too poor to pay for Fuente's buyout, we are too poor to do the same now.
twitter is pure cancer. log off. delete your account if you need to.
The vibes ain't been much better in here lately.
Yes but we have a way more nuanced take, we are saying we need more donors so that we can just fire a coach anytime the pitch forks come out because 10 mil for year 3 isn't that bad a contract for a coach coming into a mess.
More like no decent coach was going to step into the talentless landmine strewn situation we had in 2021 without some contractual assurance.
I'm definitely curious if there are examples of schools who have fired their head coach during his second season. I get that we all want results better than what we have gotten, but getting rid of someone this quickly has to be rare.
I know Willie Taggart got fired during his 2nd season, but we do not have the money, resources, fan base, or history that FSU does. and he still got 21 games before getting the boot. Pry has had 14.
I've gone through the full stages of grief now and come to this conclusion:
Ultimately, until the end of the season it's hard to quantify how we held up against good and bad teams because we don't know how other teams will compare when playing head to head. Prime example: next week Marshall plays ODU and is 13.5 point favorites. I would slam this +13.5 for ODU if I could bet on them in VA. ODU has lost to us and wake forest by 3 off some luck by wake Forrest. Marshall, I don't feel was two TDs better than ODU but we won't know until ink hits the paper.
We've seen every loss be close (with the exception of Rutgers, although the score does not reflect the game imo, the metrics showed we should have won that game by a score or two based on gameplay).
We still have the "best of the fcs" juniors and seniors on the team, leaning on them for our experience. The rest: true freshman pry recruited and sophomores that gained experience playing last year because we had no one else and they could out play the upper classmen!
As much as I'm down on the team and was hoping for better this year, it just ain't gonna happen with an o line made up of freshmen and sophomores and a weak linebacker coach that can't get one player to play with good techniques for a game. Do I wish we had dukes coach rn because of their immediate success? Yes, of course. But we've got pry and co and instead of bringing in 23 transfer portal players to fix the experience and talent problem, we put all of our marbles into re-establishing recruiting VA high schools and brought in a massive freshman class. Two different strategies, one a quick fix the other a long game play. Some freshmen are playing this year and gaining experience which will pay off in a year or two, and some are still in the oven slow cooking and hopefully leading to depth as we bring in a new class of freshman this year. Prys biggest challenge now will be keeping that talent in the boat despite on the field failures. If he can do this, his long game plan can still come to fruition. If not, he's screwed.
Long story short, I've succumbed to the facts that we are what we are: devoid of a lot of talent, but enough to keep it close. With qb1 ish?, wr1 and 2 hobbled/out, te1 out, safety 1 and 2 out, and a OC that hasn't figured out that when something is working you keep doing it until the other team can stop you, were currently missing too much experienced talent to win games and have half a roster full of freshman with freshman bodies.
Last year, our losses in order were by: ODU 3, WVU 23, UNC 31, Pitt 16, Miami 6, NC STATE 1, GT 1, DUKE 17
So far this year our losses have been: 7, 17, 7
If we can figure some things out game management wise, get some of our injured talent back, and keep gaining experience perhaps we'll win a few that it doesn't look like we had a chance initially with during pre season expectations in ACC play. Looking at you pitt, wake, uva, nc state, bc! (All of these teams have showed major signs of weakness...but who will fix it first for ACC play!?)
We are what we are and I'm not going to let this team ruin my weekend right now as we are very much a work in progress from coaching to roster construction. With the strategy we've chosen, we won't yield quick gains and senior talent will be thin until some classes and freshmen bodies can process through the weight room and practice field.
So until then, try and look for the positives (I know, very hard right now) and cross your fingers that the Korean beef we are slow marinating comes out juicy and delicious and you didn't fill up on door dash Applebees delivery because it was quicker! (Unless of course we marinate the meat too long and it comes out way too mushy and the proteins break down).
See y'all next weekend!
Now I'm hungry.
Success rates for this weeks games were just retweeted by bitter: def not the end all be all in game win/loss prediction but looks again like the hokies had the advantage in net success rate again just like vs Rutgers ....we gotta get this team to close
I can't vent because of the loss. I expected this loss before the season started. I'm disappointed because I expected to beat Purdue. I had us coming out of this stretch at 2 and 2. Didn't happen.
I can't be angry at young players for being inconsistent. I can't be angry at backups playing like backups. Several of our current OL starters should be backups at this point in their career. Some should just be backups, period. We've lost a lot of people in that room that would be starting over who we have. I can't be angry that we've lost starters to injury.
I'm not angry enough to vent. I'm just disappointed. I don't want our team to be where it is. There is a ton of blame to go around. But, all of this is expected. I didn't think we were going to be good.
I'm okay with inconsistency. I'd like to see higher highs, even if it means lower lows. Right now, I just feel like we're consistently low.
Finally, saw a high last weekend!
let's take that high to new heights this coming weekend too! Why TF not?
Watched most of the game on saturday and it's pretty telling i didnt feel like venting or discussing it on here during or immediately after. Here are some thoughts:
I don't understand a large and loudly vocal part of the fanbase -- a bunch of the same people who said Fuente set us back a decade are now saying that Pry entirely owns the current state of the roster and the program. Which is it? It can't be both.
Keeping redshirts in a Portal-and-NIL era is pointless to me. If Pry is establishing a culture, it needs to be a meritocracy. Best guys play, period. No sense preserving eligibility for 2026 if these guys can just walk and enjoy it somewhere else.
Big plays in the run game are killing us on defense. Clean up the LB play and mitigate that and we look a lot better on that side of the ball. I'm not hopeful for a solution this season.
Drones is dynamic in a way that Wells just isn't. Drones also needs to clean up his decision making and his touch on passes. The tools are there, can he put it together?
I am very interested in how the recruiting class of '24 pans out. Need to keep everyone in the boat even if the wheels fall off of the season, replace Mensah, and target a high profile flip (Fred?). There is heavy lifting to do in the portal... Recruiting floor has been an uptick since Pry took over and there is real progress in the commonwealth -- and that means absolutely nothing if those players come in too late to be useful. I refuse to give any early judgments on Pry until the '24 class is signed. That's two full years, two full seasons (minus UVA), two full recruiting cycles.
We really miss Ali Jennings. For all of the overhaul of the roster, we are razor thin.
Obviously abandoning the game was the correct call and it was an unspeakable tragedy for the hoos, but part of me can't help but wonder what a commonwealth cup game last year could have done for the perception of this team and this staff.
I can only speak for myself, but I think most people's take is more nuanced than that. Fuente left an utter mess-- bad depth, bad evals, bad work ethics--the whole nine yards. But I don't think it is unreasonable to also say that (even given the hand that they were dealt) Pry and Co. have failed to impress. I'm looking for signs that this Staff has the skills, scheme, and teaching expertise to turn this Program around---to date, there has been little to nothing to suggest that is likely.
And I do have a problem with the "these players are just so bad they are uncoachable." Number one---all of these guys are in the top 3% of all Highschool players who advance to play D-1 football. At some point, if they were completely uncoachable, they would have been weeded out of the system. Number two, some of them (Clements, Kendricks, Thomas) were more successful under the prior regime than they have been since--so they suddenly became uncoachable? You could even lump Wells in here--he was undoubtedly more prolific prior to coming to VT (yes, at a lower level, but that lower level just pushed us around for 55 of 60 minutes this past weekend).
I also feel like there was alot of effort spent excusing the progressive signs of dysfunction during the Fuente era. When we started to lose our grip on Recruiting in VA, it was "757 players and coaches have an anti-VT bias." When the SI article came out that exposed how toxic the locker room had become it was "a few bad apples," and that (along with the Turkey Bacon dilemma) had supposedly already been solved. When we were losing players en-masse to the Transfer Portal, there were those here that excused it as normal and just a part of "new college football."
I just think after years of making excuses for a Coaching Staff who in hindsight was destined and dead-set for failure, the tolerance for shortcomings from the new Staff is quite a bit less. While I don't know that that is necessarily fair, Pry also should have expected this when he took the job. Fan patience has already been tested and skepticism is high.
This I can completely agree with. I think there are 5-6 starters right now who have absolutely shown that they are not deserving of being on the field. If these players are truly so untalented and uncoachable to the point where this is the best they can perform, then the guys that Pry has brought in (that presumably are more talented and more coachable) should be on the field.
I am much more willing to accept losing games due to Freshman doing Freshman things than watching Veterans recurrently make the same mistakes and get physically dominated by P5 players. So if the Roster really is so bad that the current Coaches, even with their best efforts, can't fix things, then those players that can't contribute should be on the bench. That's also something that you cant have both ways---have an awful Roster but also keep putting out the same guys to do the same things--see definition of insanity.
Lets be honest, a Bowl isn't happening this year. Roll with the youth, if we lose 31-13 instead of 24-13 because a Fr. blew a coverage, what is functionally the difference??
The problem is that a lot of these kids were going to be weeded out. There's a hefty chunk of prospects whose best offers were low G5 or FCS schools, and Fuente came in and gave them a full ride. We are starting a lot of guys right now that wouldn't be getting major playing time at most FBS schools. That's the situation that Fuente left us in, and you can't fix all of that in the portal.
If things really were that bad, and looking back I have little reason to doubt that they were, that isn't something that Pry is going to come in and fix overnight. No coach is. When one coach burns bridges and salts the earth behind him, the next coach is going to have to spend twice as much money and energy repairing what was broken. You have to now convince these high schools and recruits that Virginia Tech isn't the shithole that it became under Fuente. That is going to take time. All of the goodwill that was built up under Beamer is gone. That entire regime is gone. We have to rebuild from the ground up.
I can only speak for myself, but I think most people's take is more nuanced than that.
I'm not sure most people's reactions are all that nuanced.
Pry is rebuilding the program, and I think most people feel like he's doing SOME things right in that regard.
I do agree with you that redshirts are a lot less meaningful in the age of NIL and portals, though.
I agree on the redshirting and eligibility. I think there is still a certain type of player/personality that is well suited for a redshirt development approach, but the high-end 3-stars and 4-stars just need to get right in the mix if they have the best ability and potential.
They really need to show some progress, some vision, some identity in the ACC games. You have to show recruits enough that they can believe in the vision Pry is pitching them. And you have to show that the portal guys can be productive...the season stats of the portal pickups is very important if you want to continue to be successful in the portal this coming cycle.
This cuts both ways though. If the mediocre senior is better than the freshman TODAY, then you play the senior. You don't give the freshies reps to get experience if they can't even 'tie' the seniors in practice. (Assuming you want a meritocracy).
A program like VT can't make major blunders in this area - like we did with Holloway last year. Not only did we burn his redshirt to return 3 punts, he's not getting burn at the top WR spots this year either. Can't do it worse ,IMO.
Hollaway and his family didn't want to redshirt. Only thing we could've done is get him in earlier last year. Can't force the kid to redshirt - then he'll def transfer.
When did they inform Pry of that? Before Pry was trotting out Kaleb Smith and nobody else? Might have been time to give the kid a shot? If someone refuses to redshirt, play them. If they aren't good enough to play than let them leave. We did neither. That's the issue.
Remembering from pressers, Pry started talking about it maybe 2 games before Liberty. i don't have any insight into when Pry discussed with the Hollaways.
Not disagreeing with you at all- but point is- thin roster, G5 players all over the place, losing culture, small players, new coordinators. You got to nail shit like redshirting. Can't bungle that as well. We need to be good at something to get this turned around. The hoops team lost for a month straight last year and still managed to redshirt Wessler- a 7ft kid that can play.
can't disagree. Why didn't Holloway play from day 1? I don't know. Maybe there's a good reason, maybe there isn't.
Maybe holloway wasn't ready from day one but was midway through the season when coaches thought he could play 6 games. Only on TKP could a true freshman WR practicing/playing his way out of a redshirt be a bad thing.
How do you bench holloway to preserve his redshirt after he absolutely wrecked GT on special teams? Sends the message that losing is acceptable imo.
Its a bad thing because he is not in the rotation now. Why not? He could be a RS freshman getting no burn now instead of a sophomore.
His eligiblity doesn't make a difference if he's not good enough at WR, and his eligibility also doesn't make a difference should he wind up transferring. 2025 is far away in the context of Pry's tenure.
Makes more sense to have him returning punts than Lane (due to injury risk) and if he plays his way as a plus-contributor on special teams then why is him being a sophomore a problem?
IIRC didn't he and his parents want him to play and not redshirt?