Well, for some reason I have some mixed feelings about this game even though we knew we would get blown out.
On one hand, we competed really well in spots with a top 5 team. We went toe to toe with a very talented FSU squad for about a quarter and a half. Bowen made some adjustments in-game and allowed the offense to show some productivity.
On the other hand the same old things continue to plague this team/program. We can talk about talent and losing culture all we want, but at some point players and coaches have to be held accountable for simple things:
1. The slow starts are just killing anything this team tries to do. While Bowen made some good adjustments, his "Wells offense" to start the game (3 three and outs in a row) were killer.
2. The run fits on defense continue to be a significant problem. I can't understand this honestly. This isn't a talent issue, it is an accountability issue.
3. The dumb penalties are creeping back in. We've seen it the past couple of weeks and they have been brutal.
All in all, it does seem like there is progress. Only time will tell as we have some winnable games coming up. I'd really like to see three things moving forward:
1. A heavy emphasis on offensive game planning, meaning be prepared enough to at least move the ball in the first quarter.
2. Put someone in the game, anyone at all, at LB and Safety who will actually be where they are supposed to be. Embrace the culture you claim to be instilling by allowing the competition to weed out guys who simply refuse to do what the scheme demands (even if you get beat physically).
3. Hold players accountable for these stupid penalties... We cannot allow this to be a storyline for the rest of the season.
Do these three tings and I think we can find 2-3 more wins.
Comments
Backups putting the ball on the turf late doesn't look good either.
Pretty cool that they dominated a quarter, but that's still not a full game.
Anyone else feel like the spots were consistently a little stingy, or just me? (I don't think it would make all that much difference but that's what it seemed like to me)
Several times.
I'm proud of the fight we showed. We could've easily thrown in the towel after the first quarter but we didn't. Fought back to cut it to 5 after the kick return. Im proud of the heart we showed. Go get a W next week. LET'S GO!!
HOKIES!
Yeah, I mean we can talk about a culture of losing all we want, but this isn't a team of quitters.
Meh is right. 17-17 after the first quarter, but how much of that was because FSU was playing with a 22 pt lead after 10 minutes? This game felt like the epitome of the *gamer leans forward* meme, with the critical moment being the long run td after the kick return. They let us back in it, then scored 17 straight to close it out after it got close.
What i liked:
*A special teams TD
*Ground game/run blocking looking P5-caliber
*The second quarter
*that one handed catch by jaylin lane
What i disliked:
*Big gains given up in the running game, again
*Pass blocking from the OL
*Running the ball to their 30 and then going backwards on 3 consecutive passing plays and penalties
*Penalties
*The offense "looking pretty good" but only putting up 10 points
There are flashes here for the optimists to celebrate. There are the same old flaws here for the pessimists to harp on. Both are true and nobody is really wrong to be in either general camp. We are a pretty young team whose veterans can be wildly inconsistent -- and that's what we play like. Mistakes and mental errors that are, at the end of the day, the underpinning of any discussions about progress
This is probably the best synopsis I've read. Upvote for you good sir.
We're not a bad at football we're just inconsistent.
Consistently inconsistent, as my high school band director would say.
That is how I describe my league pool shooting...as well as "outstandingly average" LOL!
Guessing you're APA?
Nailed it- played for about 11-12 years now. But I (and my league team) play for fun; not that our team doesn't want to win and doesn't try its best but not at the expense of making league night a chore instead of a great night out with friends. I finished as high as 4th out of 45-60 (and 10th of 98) in several 9 ball chip tournaments, so I'm not horrible but (like many of VT's good teams of the past) I'm also always good for some head-scratching losses of games after playing really well lol !
Played for many years myself. Haven't even picked up my cues in years.
I don't disagree in a vacuum
But being inconsistent is a huge liability for the team at certain position groups, and is in many cases a synonym for bad
We are still at the point where the "positives" and the "progress" are being discussed in the context of a 22 point loss -- that is pretty "bad" to me.
Yeah we're not good so that's kinda how it goes
We have a talent level where this should have been a 40 point loss, so for it to have beaten the spread while legitimately giving #5 FSU a scare is a huge improvement from where we have been the last year and a half. Our coaches are putting together game plans that have us playing above our means right now.
FSU played with their food and then wound up finishing the meal -- i disagree that we gave them a legitimate scare. Beating the the 24 point spread by 2 points means little on the field when all is said and done.
Our offense scored 10 points. Even though the game was 5 points early in the second half, FSU immediately reasserted dominance.
I find that to be an overly dismissive perspective. VT did execute in that game, coming back from a 22 point deficit in the first quarter, to make the score 22-10 at the half, and 22-17 in the third quarter. We actually had a ball game at that point, and if they weren't worried, they should have been. It wasn't long-lasting, as the defensive lapse two plays later took away any tension they might have had.
I'd like to have seen that game if we hadn't immediately given back those 7 points Tuten scored, and if Stroman hadn't been ejected.
VT showed that it has SOMETHING. I don't know what it is, but it was fun to watch, and gave me some hope that Pry might actually be making some progress.
Yes the 15 minutes of winning football where we outplayed FSU and scored 17 unanswered points count for something.
Unfortunately, so do the other 45 minutes where FSU outscored us 39-0.
If we can include or exclude 15 minutes in hindsight, why not exclude the first 15 minutes? The other 45 would have us tied. With an arguably improved and talented Florida State. Florida State has some talent AND good coaching.
Maybe I'm the optimist, but I feel better about our team after that game than I felt before it.
Yes, there's a lot of work to do, but I can see them trying to get better. And getting better.
I think you're both right. FSU utterly dominated us and there was never any doubt that they would win that game. VT also played above their means and kept the game interesting. They played hard and prevented a 47-7 type of blowout after a disastrous first quarter. I knew that FSU was going to absolutely smoke us. We all did. I am somehow encouraged by the game. We showed some flashes despite being completely outclassed. I think VT still has a long, long way to go but it appears we are at least taking small steps in the right direction. Improve recruiting. Get some actual OLinemen to block P5 defensive lines. Find some damn linebackers. Get a QB who can throw the ball accurately with relative consistency. We do those things and I think we can at least compete in the ACC
This
Can lead to this:
this is from my parent comment that started this subthread. i'm not including or excluding anything in hindsight -- i'm looking at the whole game. if you wanna focus on the second quarter + 2nd half ko return and feel good about that progress, sure fine go ahead and you're not wrong.
We don't have to choose between optimism and pessimism, we can have both! I think we showed that we can hang with the best teams in the country if we play well. We are also continuing to make some of the same mistakes we've been making since last year. Some fans are understandably frustrated to see the long runs and inconsistencies. Do some folks have an unrealistic expectation for how long it takes to fix those problems? Yeah, probably.
In a way, I think people would be less mad if we had just gotten blown out. The fact that we got ourselves in a position to challenge for the win (which is a real reason for optimism) but then immediately dribbled it down our leg is more frustrating then if we'd never been in it at all.
Big issues for the offense for me, even though they did move the ball and effectively run from the second quarter on, were 1)penalties and execution errors, 2)I felt like we should have taken a few more deep shots down field, and 3)Drones didn't have his most accurate outing throwing the football today. He missed a few wide open guys and threw some inaccurate balls. But I really think we should have tried to hit a few deep more than we did.
Agree. He has shown he can hit a deep throw, but not consistently. A relatively green starting QB lacking the accuracy and touch on deep throws four starts in is not a surprise.
Your first point informs your other two points for me. I do not trust the OL in pass pro to allow a play to develop without holding. I saw a lot of taking deep drops even with a shotgun snap, which requires big arm talent to make the throws needed, and which is only happening to buy time before the pass rush gets to the QB.
Put up a good fight and competed for the most part. Thought we dominated the second quarter, and we were driving and had a chance to make it a one score game in the fourth. But just far too many mistakes and breakdowns. Some of that youth, some of that talent, some of that coaching. We need to figure out why we can't get off to good starts and tend to come out flat. We spotted them 22 in the first quarter and ended up losing by 22.
Also Pry's game management still leaves a lot to be desired. A few times I thought he should have challenged the spot (spots were pretty bad most all game).
Some encouraging signs with the competitiveness we showed from the second quarter on, but still a lot to fix. Some areas we just don't have a lot of talent (OL, DL, LB) and it's killing us. But penalties, mental errors, and flat starts can be fixed by the staff.
I think this is the biggest tension for me. These things can certainly be fixed by a coaching staff, but can they be fixed by the VT coaching staff? The answer is yes. However, we are halfway into year two and are still dealing with the same issues. This is a staff, and we knew this, that is growing and evolving into a true P5 staff. But they have not really shown the ability to adjust at a significant level (there are some small adjustments).
Man, I wish the coaches would have challenged a few plays. It wouldn't have changed the outcome but it would have perhaps led to a closer game. I also thought the refs screwed up more than several times (targeting on the late hit out of bounds, spot in the 4th down Drones run, fumble on that last drive, plenty of spots, just to name a few that come to mind.
Not super disappointed. I feel like we were in it for parts of the game. It wasn't a 70burger. Beat the spread. I'm actually more positive about the rest of the season than I was several weeks ago. I'll take it. Go Hokies!
yeah agree with the challenges. You have nothing to lose. Needed to challenge the spot on drones' 4th down run and then when they replayed the fumble it looked like his knee was down.
Ah well. Not angry with them at this one.
Dont think coaches can challenge in college, the ACC is suppose to review those plays "upstairs"
According to Bitter, Pry said post game he asked them to look at the spot on the long 4th down scramble by Drones. They did during the break and confirmed he was short.
He MAY have been short, but not as short as they marked it on the field.
yeah, I liked this part too.
The real season will be defined by how we finish from here. If we play like we did today for the balance of the season, we might find ourselves playing in a game come December.
The outcome was exactly what everyone expected. After the first quarter, if we are honest, we all thought it was going to be a 50 or 70 burger against us.
Sure we didn't start well, on the road, against a national contender, with a huge talent gap, but this game was way more competitive than most thought it would be.
Hell the OL even did some good things.
Finish the second half of the season 4-2 and go bowling...thats not out of the question.
Go Hokies!
All I wanted was for the team to put up a fight and they did...however our run D is absolutely horrendous. Whether it's the players or the coaches, that cost us the game once we were able to get back in with KR by Tuten. Florida St was a beatable team and if we were more disciplined, we could've won. Don't know if that's on the players or coaches...but it cost us.
That being said after the last two weeks I feel every game is winnable...the ACC isn't that great. Keep our guys focused and punch Wake in the face next week!
Our LBs are legitimately terrible. But there's enough there in the rest of the team and scheme to think that getting better guys in that position could see huge on field improvements from the overall squad.
Agreed LB and OL should be an absolute priority in the portal and recruiting this off season. Lawson is getting better, but Tisdale looks like the same player as he did in 2019 (annd it's pretty damning that he's our starting Mike) and I'm not buying the Keller/McDonald hype anymore. For as much as we (me) got on him for his liability in pass coverage, we need a Dax Hollifield type LB in there...imagine how much better this D would be with him in there.
Gotta keep Gabriel Williams in the boat!
Sure would be nice to have an actual thumper back there. Somebody like, I dunno, Keshon Artis?
I think that's the one personnel decision I really don't like by this staff, which is odd because they coach linebackers.
Didn't Artis tear his Achilles?
After he transferred to NIU, right?
Ahhhh you're right I had no idea
I wasn't paying great attention... did we make it out with no injuries? That massive hit in the 4th to Tuten (I believe)... did he come back in after that?
I didn't see him come back into the game but they showed him walking off the field and he looked reasonably irritated by the performance so I'm hoping he wasn't to badly shaken up. (Didn't hear an update on the broadcast)
meh. the achilles heel of winning the TOP is the turnover margin.
which we lost
Our defense is pretty good at getting the ball ball to our offense pretty quickly.
I just wish it was a direct handover more often than using the kickoff return team as a middleman.
We do on occasion give opposing offenses the quick pass off the field.
This was more-or-less a replay of the Rutgers game, except against a legit National Championship contender. Also, a couple of playmakers showed up and showed they belong on the same stage. In that regard, the team is growing.
When i see fsu against us right after what i saw in the ut vs ok rivalry game. Fsu is a pretender.
I made money on the over and VT covering. Lost a very small amount on that 10:1 VT ML, but we good.
I guess the silver lining here is that we could compete with LSU?
/S
Beat Wake
Wake is beatable. But the Coaching staff have to beat Clawson.
Secondary was good. No deep passes on them were made. Though run game got gashed so I guess they didn't need to air it out. Though it was nice to see when they tried that the secondary held up.
We're fine. If we played this football against any of the teams we lost to early in the season we'd be in a much different mindset.
I agree.
I actually enjoyed watching the game.
I think the team played with intensity and effort for the most part.
There were times that we had legit holes for the RB's to hit. Malachi Thomas ran hard, and Tuten is Tuten.
Drones has a great touch the short tosses overall.
We shot ourselves in the foot too many times and gave up too many big plays to beat a deeper roster.
But I don't think we have another team left that has fsu's talent.
Go Hokies.
My personal favorite was debating with a guy on how tuten would get going and were both talking about outside sweeps, tosses and throws and he ran a few in a row down hill straight down fsu's throat. We have a lot to fix. We have less to fix than we did week 2.
Really Well put
This is why I'm optimistic. Improvement is happening. Maybe not fast enough for some people, but it's there.
The pessimist in me says it's easy to improve from the dumpster fire we were but I'm siding with the optimist. We're so young if we can add some portal players we have a good base of young players with experience we can be dangerous if we keep things together.
Not completely disappointed with how we played, particularly thought we were efficient on Offense.
That being said:
-we continue to make entirely too many mental mistakes and penalties in key situations, we don't have a talent level to overcome that. The fact that this continues to linger week after week is frustrating and concerning in regards to Coaching in particular
-we cannot continue to come out flat and concede the first 10 min to the opponent
-while we seemed reasonably effective on O, we only scored 10 and left a lot of scoring chances out there (primarily thru the above)
We have plenty of winnable games going forward---if we can clean this crap up, we will have a legit chance at 6 wins.
Part of your 3rd point is blamed by the second. We had to play way more aggressive with more low percentage plays down 22 in the first quarter. It's also really hard against a team that has such a wild advantage on the line it takes time for the offense to establish a misdirection threat to slow them down... when they're +22 they'll just go.
I think a lot of our youth showed tonight. Particularly with Drones and overthrowing early, and not seeing open receivers (though that could be due to the pocket imploding faster than the Titan submersible) I'm right back to feel luke warm about Strong.
Some dumb penalties as well.
I think having Ali might've made for a better game in the end. Injuries suck.
But overall, I took more positive away from this than negative. I guess going in with the mindset that we'd lose made it a lot easier to see the good stuff. Tuten is ridiculous. Lane can ball.
Lol thanks
This. We had a few opportunities that didn't happen and this statement says a lot about that.
Seemed like the stage was too big in the first Q. But I really, really liked that we didn't fold; Drones, Tuten, Thomas, and Lane are leaders/warriors.
Like many, I'm so ****ing tired of giving up the home runs. It's just silly. If the guys can't execute the concepts or the concepts are that flawed, get new people.
I think we can get much more respectable the second half of the season but I think we're looking at another 40% roster turnover this offseason...and a couple-ish staffers.
Ayoo run d wtf?!
Didn't see any run d tbh
The offense getting off to a good start will be the key to winning some of the remaining games. Ideally they can get up a few scores and limit the rushes our defense has to defend. I don't feel that will improve without some new players coming in.
Offense is leaving a LOT of points out there on the field tho. Gotta finish those drives somehow.
I feel like the slow starts narrative is overplayed. We scored on our first possession against Marshall and Pitt. You don't just get to ignore the facts that don't support your chosen narrative.
The penalties are a problem. The run defense is a massive problem, there are a lot of good criticisms of the coaching staff on here, but let's stop hammering the ones that have shown progress.
I really wish I would have kept a spreadsheet of everyone on here that just wanted notable improvement, cause we're seeing it in places. We saw some step backs in other places too, but that happens in progression and learning. Somethings learning to do a new thing take focus that means you forget to do the little things you've already learned, and know. Once the team puts it together they'll be alright. That might happen this year, or maybe next year. But we probably don't see DBs like that the rest of the year, we probably don't see and oline or dline like that either.
Sure, but I think most of the "gripe" I'm seeing here is pointing out the next target for improvement. It's not like one level of improvement is good enough...
Even "hammering" (not your post the one above, for rhetorical purposes) on certain things is more of an acknowledgment than an expectation that it'll just evaporate.
I'm thinking maybe we got FSU at just the right point in the schedule......late enough for a few games under our belt with a couple of better performances under Drones, knowing we could perform well when everything was clicking and not letting FSU's early domination break our hope and spirit, BUT early enough for this top 5 challenge experience to benefit the rest of our schedule/development. The most impressive part to me was coming back against an early 22pt lead.....the boys may have doubts, but THEY BELIEVE! The Hokies averaged 6 ypc (thanks Bhayshul!) rushing and 7.4 ypc passing, with 1/3 fumbles lost, no interceptions, half their penalties, equaling #5 FSU in sacks with only one less TFL, in their house after they had a week off to prepare! Not too shabby! I don't remember any significant injuries either, so we may have gotten the maximum benefit outside an upset.
This.
I haven't heard how long on a possible Jennings return. Hopefully he still has a shirt or can get a medical and come back next season. If I'm not mistaken Lane may have a COVID year still. If we get all those guys back and another off-season with Drones at the helm, This offense could be much, much improved.
I'm optimistic about the OL, never thought I would be this year. Inside DL has to be a priority in the portal next year.
No GIFtory this week of course, but I feel this highlight run from Tuten should get an old school Swami "WOOP!"
Tuten can ball.
somewhere, Deron Washington is smiling
The total disregard for his manhood there. Like an inch above from never having kids. But damn, it looked good.
Tuned in late so missed the early run up.
Guys looked athletic, strong.... Looked like they played hard and were in every play that I saw. Didn't look like a Div III squad on the field.
Can't remember the last time I watched a Hokie game and had these thoughts.
If Pry can improve the talent through recruiting there's real potential I think. Not disappointed with the loss today.
Did catch a glimpse of Jennings on the sideline on crutches.
Take away the first quarter and we tied!
Jk but for real. If we could stop letting 10 yard runs turn into 50 because our linebackers can't understand basic gap fills and safety can't help in run support we would be ok. Offense was slow to figure it out today and it seemed to me like a play calling issue early (don't factor in the olines base level of c- blocking effort). Fought hard but didn't do enough and get enough chunk plays at the end despite the referees best efforts to spot us a yard short on every first down run which went unchallenged by pry all night.
Passing game was ultimately non existent with wright continuing to disappoint me in effort, Gosnell getting 1 target with an amazing catch negated despite having nearly a perfect catch record, and Felton being non existent.
We have potential and actually aren't a shit team, we just aren't a good team yet. Perhaps we've entered the "menacing" category
I think we are trap game phase, we can be overlooked, but if you do we might just put a game together are ruin a season, but FSU came out ready.
I think fsu had a week off before this game, so lots of time to be ready.
I mean to me the ball is reached out right at the sticks foot still in bounds....to spot it a yard back and show no replay is sus
Per another poster on here somewhere, Pry did challenge that spot, but no joy.
There have been a lot of comments on penalties but FSU had twice the number of penalties in this game (12-6). They just had the talent to overcome the difference.
Not saying there aren't issues with this team, but there does seem to be progress the last two weeks. I actually feel pretty good going into the Wake game.
I don't think we're good enough to beat all six teams remaining on our schedule but I do think we're good enough to beat any of the six, if that makes sense. I feel no worse about our chances in those six games than I did coming into today.
Other than UofL we have a good chance win any remaining game on our schedule.
I really wish UofL was next weekend. With how they are going to be celebrating right now, and how they might see that FSU "stomped" us, it would be a great time to catch them with their pants down.
Wouldn't be the first time.
I wasn't very optimistic after the first quarter, but when I tuned back in at halftime and saw the 22-10 score, I felt a lot better.
VT didn't quit, I'll hand them that, and I saw some signs of talent, albeit some of it got cancelled by some tragic lapses in run coverage.
There is certainly enough there to provide hope and keep me watching games this year.
You should go and watch the 2nd quarter. It was pretty good for us and shows a lot of the improvements we have made as a team.
I just wanted to say one thing. I remember before the season started, Ffrench was really excited about Tuten, and man was he ever right.
Tuten is the real deal.
I'm happy other people were excited. But I'm more happy that our coaches were able to identify him and pick him up. And not just pick him up, but flip him from someone else.
Tuten 99 yd Kick return against #5 FSU
The fan reaction was genuine. I sat in my recliner with the same reaction. Then we immediately give up the 60+ yard TD run and they pan back to him and Mark Jones says something along the lines of "that closed his mouth". Mark Jones is a douche and Miami homer, GFY Jones.
The Grant Wells interaction after that TD was interesting. Not sure what to take from that but Tuten was clearly not interested in whatever Grant was saying.
Even though we were pretty soundly beaten this game was actually entertaining to watch. That's an improvement as well. This team is starting to become fun to watch again, which is something it hasn't been since 2016
When Tuten returned that kickoff, I think that was the single most joyous moment I've had watching VT football in a very long time.
The Lane touchdown catch/run vs Pitt is my highlight of the year so far
Agreed, probably in no small part because it loosened up that "here we go again" knot in my stomach after Drones' fumble got them within 7.
This was exactly how I felt during and after the game (first Q excluded). Despite a thorough beating, it was actually still entertaining to watch as the losing team. If we can't win, I at least want to feel like I didn't waste 4 hours of my life by watching.
All of the above about us is great in our getting better this year....then to remember that FSU had a week off to prepare for us and we were still able to threaten ever so slightly and fight the entire game is really encouraging. Looking forward to the Wake game and hope the team is coming away from this loss with some positive looks even though not the outcome they or any of us wanted.
also thought Pry's post game presser was really good.
If pry ever actually gets on the hot seat he should just schedule a presser.
Frankly I was, overall, fairly pleased. Consistently inconsistent is a perfect description for this group. I honestly thought they'd blow our doors off having a bye week before us.
Tuten is an absolute monster. Drones is starting to come into his own as well, and I think the two could be very dangerous together if we find some dawgs to put in front of them before they're done here.
On the down side, since my wife is an FSU fan, I now have laundry duty for 2 weeks.... For a family of 5 with two dogs....Should've taken the time to explain spreads to my wife rather than give up and say outright!🤦♂️🤦♂️
I'm sure your wife knows more about spreads than you're giving her credit for ... and more about sheets and comforters also.
>Groan< have your leg sir. I did laugh a bit
Quite a few comments have been made about the need for the offense to get off to a better start. To be fair, I believe that in each of the two previous games, the offense scored a TD on their first possession (plus a field goal in one of those).
It did seem like somebodies (coaches and / or players) then took time for tea and crumpets before remembering there was still a game going on.
All this should be taken with a grain of salt. I was not on the field getting pounded.
Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but I recall a handful of balls that ended up on the turf after hitting receivers in both hands, at least early in the game. Our receivers didn't really help out Drones a ton at the start.
Separately, I was pleasantly surprised with Bowen and our offensive growth. We had some very intriguing formations and pre-snap motion. And our line did enough at times to give Bayshul and Malachi some holes to run through. We're certainly improving in some areas.
I actually feel really good coming out of this game, better than I did after the Pitt game. Definitely think some games are winnable that a couple weeks ago I was sure would be losses. Most of the guys who are really struggling are either true freshman or guys who aren't going to be here the next two years (see Tisdale, Alan). I have concerns, which I will lay out after the season ends. But every game there are more and more flashes to take positives on. Good teams win, but great teams cover.
One thing I do really appreciate about Pry is that he doesn't play to lose close. He left multiple field goals on the field, but he knows that field goals don't win this game. So he went for touchdowns even at 4th and 22 in field goal range he went for it because 3 points were meaningless. One of the biggest concerns I had hiring a DC for head coach was a Ferentz/Doeren/Muschamp proclivity for playing conservative and for field position when the analytics say go for it.
What did the analytics say about Mike Norvell mocking our program on ABC television and going for 2 after their first touchdown with a trick chicken shit formation?
The analytics say it was a dick move
PREACH nothing pisses me off more than sad field goals or sad punts.