Saw this pop up on my Twitter feed recently.
On the blog: A source says #Hokies have been in contact with Texas Tech QB Michael Brewer about transferring to Tech. http://t.co/qtF1GU2pmk— Mike Barber (@RTD_MikeBarber) February 26, 2014
This has been a question and topic of discussion around here for a while, but I'm not sure if it's ever gained much traction. In the article, Barber mentions that the Hokies had in fact also been in contact with USCw transfer Max Wittek. Both of these guys would be available to play immediately and it also appears that the coaching staff would like to at least put a year or two between Leal and the incoming Freshmen, just to make sure none of them are thrown into the fire prematurely.
*EDIT* Found some info about the eligibility of Wittek and Brewer. Also, TSL put out a very good article about the situation earlier today, which you can find here, with a TSL pass.
Comments
I can never keep things straight...do we trust Mike Barber or not?
I thought we didn't like him but I could quite easily be confusing him with someone else.
Mike Barber is a reporter I trust. I link / cite to him all the time.
Okay, Thanks! So many names flying around..I know I like AB...now I just gotta remember we like MB
MB for Mike Barber. Now Mark Berman on the other hand...
Mike Barber is a good reporter. Mark Berman is a bad joke.
VT Football is blessed with a several excellent beat reporters. Andy, Mike, Mark, and Teel all do a great job.
3 outta 4 ain't bad.
Brewer has reportedly already graduated, so he doesn't have to sit a year. It appears that coaches are looking for alternatives to Leal.
But I anticipate they won't find any. Watch in the spring, Leal will be clearly their only option and they will start building up his confidence. Leal winning the the Most Improved Offensive Player Award at the Spring game is a near certainty.
We're in a serious pickle at QB.
I don't think Leal is a near certainty at all. If this was O'Cainspring era then yes I would agree. But I think everyone is equally up for winning the job and the best QB will get the ball. Leal, Motley, Ford, Durkin, McMillian and any transfer.
I would not call that a serious pickle either. I think it's a seriously great position to be in and frankly one that VT has not had for as long as I have been a Hokie, which was 1995. Having multiple good options at QB plus the ability to attract good transfers is something VT is not known for and yet here we are.
These are all good things
I think we disagree about the quality of the options. Of the current four options, I would rank each of them below everyone who has started for VT in the bowl era but Noel and Clark. I don't see a lot of debate to that, clearly we don't have anyone who is of the quality of Mike, Marcus, Tyrod, LT, Randall or Druck. You could argue DeShazo and Glennon I guess.
I like Ford and Durkin and both could become something, but I wouldn't expect too much of them next year.
You are forgetting Bucky Hodges.
"Buh, But... He's a Tight End!"
Exactly!
CDS...none of them have started a game yet. Give them a chance before you call them the worst VT quarterbacks in the last 15 years besides Noel and Clark. Yes, Mark Leal is not Tyrod Taylor, but we now have a capable offensive coordinator who will not ask him to be.
Based on what I saw in the bowl and in the open scrimmages/spring game, I'd take Clark and Noel over Leal.
Yeah, a healthy Al Clark is Mark Leal's ceiling. Actually, no way Leal can run as well as AC could.
I'm hoping Motley emerges
As stated, none, except for Leal, have ever played a game, so I find it very hard to believe that this is the case. Your qualifying your statement on how you know the previous VT QB's played, not how they would perform if coming fresh into this year's QG competition. What we do know is that the QB recruits we got are considered a highly desirable class, and the QBs we have may have a lot to show that we have not seen. Leal has one half of a game and mop up duty in others, and very limited mop up duty at that.
However I would classify those you listed like this:
So if you put each of these in as a freshman with this new group:
Mike, Tyrod - would win the job
LT3 - would stay at TE
Randall, DeShazo, Glennon, Druck - IMO would not win the job.
Marcus - would win the job but would then get suspended and then win the job and then get suspended for stomping on a defenders leg on national tv and then win the job and then get expelled.
I think we just see the 4 options for 2014 through a different lense.
yes we do and that's fine, though without you offering an explanation I don't really get how you see it the way you do. But let me ask you this.
If we had a true freshman Glennon, Druck, Randall, Deshazo in this same group with Ford, Durkin, McMillian then you still believe that someone from the first group would beat those in the 2nd group for the starting position? Despite none of those in the first group being highly sought after QBs coming into college (not totally sure about DeShazo)?
I'm not saying that these new QBs will out-perform what the previous ones did in their career but from an incoming freshman standpoint these 2014 recruits are developed far beyond the previous Hokies, and regarded quite highly. That's why I think these new kids would win the job, and thus why i believe you should see it more positively.
Two points:
Jim Druckenmiller was the 16th pick in the NFL draft. There is not a kid on our roster next year at QB who has the talent to be the 16th draft pick in the NFL draft. Druck also led us to 2 (pre)BCS bowls. Say what you will about his intellect or his NFL career, but the dude is/was accomplished. These four don't sniff Druck if he's in camp, but as you said, that is considering his finished career....which brings us to point number two...
I wouldn't start Druck as a tr-Fr either. Durkin or Ford may become starting QB's later in their careers, but I really think we should pump the breaks on what either can be next year. This isn't Christian Hackenberg here. Both of these kids have significant holes in their games (Ford's arm strength, Durkin's passing experience) that may improve with time in the program. It is unrealistic to assume that either will produce even average results as tr-Fr. We may play Durkin as a change-of-pace guy, but I'm not sure that is in his best interest or the best interest of the offense. He's gotta learn how to throw the ball, he threw for something like 1100 yards, combined, in his HS career. Ford needs to beef up and develop some arm strength, (although I never think he will have even average arm strength, he's going to have to learn to Ken Dorsey it and that comes with lots of reps and talent everywhere).
Both are classic redshirt candidates. If they are playing, something has gone wrong.
So go get a transfer if you can.
You are really playing the negative card while also contradicting yourself. You are saying that none of the kids of the talent to be the 16th draft pick and yet you say that the holes in their game may improve with time in the program. You're trying to project something that is 3-5 years away for these kids. You are using stats without support. Durkin may not have lit things up in high school throwing but I believe his high school also ran the ball much more than pass it. I believe we can say that Ford has an average arm strength. He's not a gunslinger and can't throw the ball 60 yards flat footed like Logan did in the College All-Star Competition, but he doesn't have to be. I'm not quite sure where the doom and gloom is coming from, but there should be no reason not to be excited about the possibilities these kids bring.
I think that's fair, the whole premise to the argument is flawed. How can you possibly compare the career of Jim Druckenmiller to the tr-Fr seasons of Ford and Durkin? And why should you to start with?
My point has always been that we enter 2014 in the worst shape for QB play (for that season) that we have since Mike left us in the lurch with Noel. We have always had either logical transitions (DeShazo-Druck-Clark-Vick, Randall-Marcus, Tyrod-LT) or we have had talent that has made it work (Tyrod) when it wasn't so logical. I just see a murky transition and I don't see the talent, for 2014, to just play us out of it.
We need to lean on the running game.
Why was the transition from Tyrod to Logan any easier? Just because we knew he was our only option? Or because he completed 1 pass against Miami? It seems that the reason for your despair lies in the fact that we have multiple options and not a single candidate. While I understand that you may be worried with uncertainty, that sort of competition will lead to the best thing we can produce, not just working with what we have.
Well, it was one very miraculous completion.....
Valid point, there certainly was more calm at handing the reigns to LT. Maybe it also had something to do with #4 in the backfield next to him.
Alright, now I can agree with you. The transition to Logan was easier because of the people around him. He had Danny Coale, Jarrett Boykin, David Wilson, Blake DeChristopher, and several other proven players. Logan was the only question mark. Now we have a few more question marks due to influx of talent that is possibly better than what we already have. But that shouldn't be held against Ford/Durkin/McMillian. That's an issue for the whole team, not a knock on any of their abilities. Unfortunately, the media doesn't see it that way as we saw in Logan getting ripped apart after the Bama game when our receivers couldn't catch a cold. But we should all be able to see, thanks to Joe, French, and the many knowledgeable people here on TKP, that those guys have the skills to succeed.
DeShazo - Druck: yes
Druck - Clark: yes
Clark - Vick: Yes
Vick - Noel: No, but that is the coaches fault for not having better depth. Players leaving early is a fact of life you need to be prepared for.
Noel - Randall: No.
Randall - Vick - (back to) Randall: No. Marcus being a loser screwed with Randall and Glennon as players and VT in general.
Vick - Glennon: No
Glennon - Tyrod: No
Tyrod - LT: Yes, but only because Logan was the only choice we had.
LT - ?: Won't know until end of season
That's not many smooth transitions in there, and those years we weren't in a rebuilding stage for the program. Those were years where we were winning 10 games a season. It's expected that we have this issue in a rebuilding year, and the coaches have done a great job at responding to that issue.
If the comparison is against Div-1 starting QBs, at this minute, Ford has well below average arm strength.
I think your memory with Druck is quite rose colored. Yes, he was the 16th pick but everyone I knew at school with me at that time all groaned because everyone knew he should have been a 5th round at best. The 49ers took him because of his size and strength hoping he would be another Jim Kelly, despite scouting reports stating that he had serious questions at understanding the game at the NFL level and very limited mobility. They took a gamble and lost. You're also forgetting that Druck went Fork Union. When he arrived at VT he was already further along than Ford and Durkin. Had he arrived at the same age as they did there would be no way he wins the job because a) no Div 1 school offered him a scholarship out of high school; b) mentally, both in intelligence to understand the game and maturity, he was not at Ford, Durkin, McMillian current level; and c) while he had a cannon and a quick release he needed a lot of work on dumps and shorter passing routes which the Fork Union coaches concentrated on with him.
I am not trying to knock the guy. He was great for VT and I personally had a lot of fun watching his crazy antics while out and about in Bburg, but he simply was not at the same level as a true freshman.
As for your 2nd point, I don't disagree. I am not saying that a true freshman is going to be the starter only that you should be a bit more excited about the crop of QBs we have been able to land this year. It literally has never been better as a class of Qbs coming into VT. (Individually Mike and Tyrod are better of course) Personally I think Motley is going to surprise a lot of people and perhaps a transfer is a great answer to next year.
Point is, no need to be so negative. these are all good things.
Yeah, I was in school in the 90's too and remember the Druck stories. He was everywhere. He was an idiot, but he made plays. I certainly loved that era.
Comparatively, Andrew Ford is the complete opposite of Jim Druckenmiller in pretty much every capacity of his game and, seemingly, his life.
I remember going somewhere to see Emmet Swimming play, and ended up soaking wet because Druck was shaking a beer and spraying it all over the crowd like champagne. Good times.
hahaha... so true. I would say I was at this party with you but he did the same thing at almost every party he was at.
Huh???? Glennon and Randall were both more highly regarded than any of the incoming frosh QBs.
It's clear that the coaches not only lack confidence in Leal, but they also lack confidence in the incoming frosh being ready before 2015 -- at the earliest.
Not true. Durkin & McMillian are both highly regarded at least equal to Glennon. I don't remember Randall being all that highly rated out of HS as a QB - maybe as an ATH. Ford is underrated because of the way he handled his recruiting.
well, Glennon was rated No 10 (or 11) pro-style in nation I believe when coming from high school, but I don't think he played that when coming in. Not saying that Ford, Durkin and McMillian will definitely be either but IMO they are more ready to play than Glennon was at this stage. All that being said Glennon did have O'Cain as a QB coach so who knows maybe he could have been a Heisman candidate under Lefty. We now know just how much O'Cain set VT and our QBs back so the BlameGlennon mantra might need to change to BlameO'Cain. At least it rhymes a little.
Randall, I think was a 1000 yard passer and rusher. Not sure where/if he ranked nationally, but if I remember correctly a lot of schools were recruiting him as a defensive back. Anyone else remember that?
Bryan Randall:
Rankings: SuperPrep All-American (No. 15 player in nation, No. 2 athlete in nation, Mid-Atlantic offensive player of the year, No. 1 player in Va.) ... PrepStar Dream Team (A-A, No. 4 QB in nation, No. 1 QB in Atlantic Region, No. 1 player in the Atlantic Region) ... G&W Recruiting No. 46 offensive player in nation ... No. 1 player in Virginia by Roanoke Times ... Tom Lemming Prep Football Report No. 21 player in Mid-Atlantic Region ... No. 20 QB in the nation by Student Sports ...
BAM!
there we go. Yes, I remembered Randall incorrectly. But I do remember him getting recruited as a DB for a lot of schools for some reason. Where do you think Randall would fit with these QBs coming in? I remember him seemingly always being looked as the fallback to Marcus and Noel, and reluctantly given the QB1 position. That's why I pegged him as an overachiever.
Nice info. thanks
I probably shouldn't even bring this up, but Ike Whitaker could challenge for this as far as VT QBs since the MV7 era. His expectations were pretty high and he never even started a game and had off the field issues as well.
MV5 may have been a massive disappointment but he still had more talent in one testicle hair than Glennon-Clark-Noel had in their entire bodies combined. I also believe Leal could be more talented than Clark-Noel-Glennon (though not necessarily combined). Downvote me if you want.
No question Marcus had the talent. It's just a shame his immaturity was more powerful than his ability
And you simply cannot make an MV5 statement or remark without emphasizing his immaturity can you?
No, actually, you can't. It was evident on the field as well as off the field.
It is so bad it completely overrides anything good.
Stomp on a down guy on the field and you need to seriously redeem yourself. He didn't. Therefore it's fair game.
Immaturity is the nicest thing I can say about Marcus. Actually was being civil so we wouldn't get into another Marcus is a loser debate. I could have used a much more negative word and have it still be applicable.
Some things in Hokie Nation are just synonymous to a player:
Tyrod: "Tyrod didn it Mikey!"
Coale: "It was a catch!"
Byrn: Paperboy
Hughes: PunterSwag
Boone: BOOOOONE!
DW4: Chic-fil-A on Sundays
and so on...
and then there's Marcus. There are only negative words that can be associated to him. Whatever positive he had from his ability during the games he played is outweighed completely by his dumbassery on and off the field.
JC Shurburtt said we had one of the best QB recruiting classes in the nation, with 3 good prospects coming in.
Yes, we lost Logan, but the talent level from top to bottom is much, much deeper than it has been in years.
Leal, Motley, Ford, McMillian, Durkin...I like what we have and the future is bright.
I have to say I mildly disagree with you on this. I don't think Leal is the only option. Motley and Ford are in the mix. A transfer would be a nice temporary solution also. It would be enticing to a transfer to have the ability to come in and play right away also.
I don't think we are in a serious pickle either...everyone complained about Logan for the past 2 years and screamed, "Put in Leal"....now we don't want Leal and think the sky is falling.
Next man up...I think we might surprise some people next year.
Rational people didn't scream for Leal of Thomas.
Statistically, the best QB in the history of the school. His absence will be felt bigtime.
Note, I didn't say they were rational. I loved Logan Thomas and was always a supporter of his.
He never got the credit he deserved from many people.
I still don't think we are in that bad a situation. I think we have many good options going forward.
I do think Leal will start this year however. If Loeffler uses him right, I think he can be effective.
This. I think we have seen that Loeffler is very adept at using what he's got. Last year, the weapon was LT while skill positions were uncertain and the line was getting overhauled. Now, we have a better-trained O-line with a different, but similar-minded, coach and some exciting recruits at skill positions, in addition to a WR corps that grew immensely last year with Moorehead. I think, regardless of who wins the QB battle, Loeffler will put them in a position to succeed based on the schemes he creates.
I agree, Leal can be serviceable. Look at Noel's junior year:
11 games, 57% completions, 1826 yards, 16 TDs and 11 interceptions.
If Leal can do that over 13 games:
13 games, 57%, 2158 yds, 19 TD's, 13 interceptions
That would be a QB not getting in our way. If we can run the ball and some of the youth at LB and depth at DT comes through, we could be fine.
My concern is that Leal is El Paso bad against Ohio State, we lose to ECU in the 3rd game and we shuffle QB's all season, blowing redshirts and creating more chaos in Loeffler's system.
So we need Leal to be Grant Noel and we'll be okay.
I'm going to be a Negative Nancy for a minute, so I apologize in advance.
I'm not sure how I feel about this. I want to beleive in Loeffler, and I'm willing to give him more time before I draw any hard conclusions, but no matter how I slice it, I can't accept that Logan was the only offensive weapon last year. I still think there were multiple games where either Loeffler didn't do a great job using the talent available to him or he completely forgot he had Trey Edmunds on the roster..
There were definitely some questionable situations and play calls, and I am not saying LT was our only weapon. He was the primary weapon and the best athlete on the field. I'm thinking of the following:
1. Inexperienced WRs, with only Knowles and Coles having any real experience. Coles coming back from injury left a lot of questions.
2. Malleck goes down right before the season starts after Loeffler had designed offensive game plans around him. We turn to a true freshman in Kalvin Cline who had all of about 10 games of football under his belt, ever.
3. O-line needed an overhaul and it remained to be seen what Grimes could do. We started a true freshman on the O-line vs. Bama for the first time (in how long? ever?) under Beamer.
4. We knew Trey had talent, but he had never seen the field in real game action. JC shows some flashes but is not consistent. Mangus was shifting around positions and we had yet to realize what a beast Sam Rogers is.
Given all that, I'd say Loeffler developed and adjusted his strategy as the season went on based on what he saw and what the guys were learning. I also think there were far too many variables at play last year to be fully confident in anything, but I was just pleased to see some semblance of a game plan that utilized the talent we had, rather than the O'cainspringsome "draw it up in the dirt and hope it works" approach.
I think the Malleck injury had a lot to do with the Loeffler Sampler Offense we saw. Even once Kline was up and performing in the passing game, he really struggled controlling the edge. That threw everything up in the air for Loeffler.
Hopefully with three quality TE's this year, we get back to something more cohesive.
I agree with everything you said, but with regards to your 4th point, by the end of the season, we knew Trey had talent and he had game experience. But he was getting fewer carries. He had 20+ carries in each of the first three games, but after that he never got more than 15. My only criticism of Loeffler this past season was he made Logan unnecessarily shoulder a disproportionate work load, and underutilized Edmunds. Looking back, I still feel the same way. The 6 carries against Boston College and 12 against Duke were/are particularly worrisome.
I don't know this, but I feel like if Edmunds had been featured more he could have very easily been a 1000 yard back, and again, in my opinion, I think Thomas would have benefited from not having to put the entire team on his back every game (see 2011).
But as you mentioned, there does seem to be a lot Loeffler is doing right. He very well may be an outstanding offensive coordinator--I'm just not completely sold...yet.
It looked to me as if Loeffler was trying to get Thomas I to the swing of an option run game. A couple times it looked like he would get it with just a little more game speed practice but never did.
Thomas had a tendency to keep the ball. With a better grasp on the option The RB would get the ball more.
To sum it up. I don't think it was Loeffler that kept the ball out of the RB hands, I think it was QB decisions in the run option that did that, for several reasons, some of them good ones.
That's a good point
You're forgetting that Edmunds injured his hip in the 4th game and was never really close to healthy until probably the Miami game -- and probably not close to fully healthy until the UVa game.
I think our QBs will suprise. I think Leal can complete 60% of his passes and not turn the ball over. I think Ford, with some work, can do the same. I think Travon and Durkin will be great veer options if that's the direction Loeffler wants to go with the offense.
This will sound crazy to some, but based on what I saw in scrimmages this fall...I think Motley is the best throwing / running combination. He's been on campus for 2 years and hasn't switched positions yet. Bucky was here for 6 months before he was switched to the scout team TE. There is a reason for that ya'll.
However, at the end of the day...I don't think Loeffler thinks any of his options are currently NFL guys. He is probably right. I think he wants a NFL caliber QB, and that is why he is pursuing transfers..
I still think that we can field a productive offense with the 5 guys we'll have on campus this summer.
I feel more like the transfer is a potential stop-gap while the freshmen get up to gamespeed. I wouldn't say he knows they aren't NFL caliber, it's just that he knows that starting any true freshmen, regardless of their talent, is taking a big risk. QBs are sometimes like fine wines or nice stouts - better when aged a bit.
We're not in a serious pickle. We have lots of options. A few months ago, before Durkin, we were all gung-ho about Ford winning the job or redshirting while Leal took the reigns. Now that we have multiple QBs that could win the starting job AND we're still going after more, it's creating the illusion that we don't have confidence in any of the possible candidates. Especially after Leal's less than impressive output against UCLA; which is almost worthless because look at what happens when the starting and established center, kicker, punter, running back, or lock down corner leaves a game for many other teams. They don't always wow everyone.
It's the offseason and signing day wasn't a disaster, it wasn't amazeballs but it was really good. At least wait until we have a chance to find out that the transfer QBs don't come to us and Ford, Leal, Durkin, and Co. aren't able to hit the broad side of the bleachers before we start saying the sky is falling.
A transfer helps us bridge the gap before guys like Ford and Durkin are ready.
Leal may be solid, but there is probably a reason the coaches are looking at transfers.
I think Loeffler is trying to get the best product out on the field this fall, and that means pursuing transfers and any other options.
Unfortunately that shows a vote of "no-confidence" in Leal, and that he doesn't expect any of the freshmen to be ready to run the entire show their first year.
My guess is we will see a split between Leal running pro-style and Durkin's veer running game, with the running game taking center stage next year. I also think that this style will produce better red-zone success, even with a step down in QB talent from last year to this year.
So don't worry when Leal is voted most improved in spring ball. DO WORRY if the defense out-scores the offense (like last year.)
Loeffler was UF OC 2009-2010. The dual QB (with Leak/Tebow) was in 2006.
Dual QB system can absolutely work. However, they cannot be opposity system guys. The Leak/Tebow (or Duke 2013) are perfect examples. If one guy is a change of pace guy and doesn't require different personnel or playbook it will work.
opposity? Are we enlargifying the english language again?
I love aggression of our new coaches. I have full confidence in Lefty to relentlessly pursue the option that will make us the best team NOW and in the Future. I know this spring will be ripe for QB competition and Lefty will take the cream of the crop.
If he can come in and beat out the guys we have, I have no issue with it.
Why haven't we seen this yet ....!??!!
Mike Vick's contract is up with the Eagles ... he left VT after his redshirt sophomore season ... Kevin Jones is currently a grad student in Blacksburg with a year of eligibility left ... Bruce Smith is already on the sidelines at every game ... it is all coming together now ... Lets do this. GO HOKIES!!!!
(I know they're ineligible btw)
Isn't it possible that talking to transfers is being used as a motivator also? Plus I am not fully confident in the ability of our OLine to protect our QB or make thr blocks our run game needs to get going. Excited though to see how it pans out though!
Whether or nt it is Lefty's intent, I imagine the effect will definitely be to lift a fire under these guys butts. Gotta love that.
OP has been edited to reflect the eligibility of both guys mentioned. They'll both be graduating this spring and able to participate in the fall. Looks like Lefty wants him some legit QB competition in camp.