Part 1 got to be over 500 comments in the span of 9 days, and the thread just became a bit unwieldy to follow, especially on mobile.
So I'm bringing up a Part 2.
Lets continue to discuss the mess that college football has become.
One of the Mods, feel free to lock the previous thread when you get a chance.
Forums:
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Comments
And lets start it off the right foot with some epic gaslighting by Herbstreit over the weekend...
I never really liked herbstreit. Never got the hype. He's an osu Homer and panders to whoever will lift him up highest. I liked Chris Fowler. Reece Davis is okay. But I can't watch GameDay anymore. All those guys are just shills for e$ECpn
I'm not a herbstreit fan, but his job is corporate shill, that's the job. I don't see why people are bringing this up with the FSU thing. It's like asking PT Barnum if the icecapades is better than the circus, he's gonna sell the circus.
"I'm not a Herbstreit fan, AND his job is corporate shill..."
FIFY
What a lying piece of shit
Kirk Herbstreit should not be taken as a reliable information source on Football.
His credibility was bought and sold long ago.
Fin.
Herbie got lost in his own sauce. This comment just screams unawareness. The only 'facts' are that 14 people made a subjective decision to leave FSU out. The correct response (assuming Herbie wanted to stay neutral and not offend his employer or the cfb fanbase) would've been something like "The situation sucks for FSU players, coaches and fans. I understand why the committee made the decision they did, but that doesn't make it any easier."
Gameday rose to prominence because they found a way to show appreciation for the entire sport, and the uniqueness of the sport. Now, it feels like they have meaningful conversation about 20ish teams at most, and then pay some lip-service to a couple other random teams throughout the season. Even worse is the jokes they make about the other teams - whether it was the P12 cupcake bit a couple season ago, jokes about Oregon State and Wazzu this year, etc.
Gameday used to be laughing at the absurdity of the sport with us. Now, it very much feels like they're laughing at us.
That show is a joke now. Pat McAfee screaming at the camera is nothing new. Nothing new. Chris Russo did that flavor in 1981. So spare me the bullshit he is "changing media" - nonsense. He is a former NFL player that can get other players on as guests- to clout chase. He shamelessly is trying to take corso's gig while corso is sitting right there. That show is unwatchable now. Desmond Howard says nothing you will remember once the show is over, McAfee is screaming at you hungover, and Corso is not aware of where he is. Its a joke now.
This is deviating from the point of the thread, but I don't think Pat is gunning for Corso's job. I think it's already his and ESPN knew exactly his place in the GameDay crew when they brought him on to afford a transition time. IMHO Corso should have retired years ago. Father Time caught him before the pandemic and every time they prop him up on the set it just gets more cringe worthy. It's not that he's not knowledgeable still, but he's at an advanced age and his delivery has taken a major blow.
That said, the GameDay formula isn't going to change. Rece is your extremely knowledgeable and middle-ground host, Herbstreit is the former player that provides the expert opinion, Desmond is the other former player providing the alternate opinion, and McAfee is the knowledgeable comedic relief that also broadens the viewership base. ESPN knows their formula, and each of these guys is both critical to the program's success and replaceable at the same time.
ESPN lost the plot as an entire network when they pivoted toward punching down at anyone and anything they deemed wasn't worthy. From them shitting on the NHL to making a mockery of professional teams in small markets, to shitting on the ACC year after year (Wheel of Destiny and Coastal Chaos), it is who they are. Its all fun and games until you're the ones that are in their crosshairs.
To me, it's not so much the punching down, but it's the way it's done. The wheel of destiny and coastal chaos were/are funny bits. I'm here for that stuff. The Pac12 Cupcake bit was crossing the line to me. That felt like state media.
They adopted this whole 'embrace debate' thing 15ish years ago. That's when it stopped being about enjoying the sports, and started being about enjoying being correct. That turned in 'I'm right, you're wrong,' and that turned into 'I'm cool, you suck.'
This is the network that had one golf analyst (Andy North) in the woods era, mind you- 1 NHL analyst and 6 people that covered fantasy football. They have no cred as a serious media outlet.
I think the problem is that they never had cred as serious media outlet, but they lost what made the good by playing by the mouse's rules. Having guys yell boom scakalacka during sports clips isn't what serious media ever did. They started with great writers doing a lot of counter culture things, Hunter s Thompson contributed often. Mayne Street was just crazy. It was fun and not serious. It was entertainment. Then they stopped all the fun stuff and became people yelling at people over shit that doesn't matter. If some one on espn was yelling in the 90s it was sharing the excitement of what they are watching. Now it's just to talk louder than the other jackass with the mic. At no point did the gain credibility for anything dealing with current sports. Sone of their documentaries are fantastic journalism. But Sports center, GameDay, Around the Horn, anything with Stephen A Smiyh are just fluff, and have always been.
I mean, that's a convenient perspective to have if your favorite team is in the "in" crowd.
Absolutely. If anOSU was getting screwed over he'd be yelling about it. The whole beef between Herbie and Desmond Howard over the Michigan sign stealing stuff just shows you what hypocrites they are. If he'd been a Washington State QB instead of a suckeye, he'd have been raging over the Pac-12 implosion instead of making jokes at WSU/Oregon State's expense.
Interesting "facts", jackass. Really doing a great job of disproving those conspiracies, huh....
For those of you who don't want to head to Xitter or cannot access full Xitter from work....
Insert "That's just like your opinion man" gif, literally.
And more to the point, if Alabama (and all those other teams that herbie claims) are better, why was FSU consistently in the top 4 in every playoff ranking?
I think Herbie is getting tired and fed up with being called a corporate shill. I hope they keep poking him until he completely loses it and gets fired.
You only go on a rant like this when the people criticizing you clearly have struck a nerve. Deep down he knows he is wrong, and calling fans of FSU the lunatic fringe proves my point.
I am pretty sure the Miami fans were vocal 20 years ago, but nowhere near the media and social networks that are available today.
....and if Vick was not hurt for the game we played against them (no offense to deep ball Dave) we would have been the ones that got fucked.
I think he's pissed that he's having to cover for his company's f@&k-up and he's getting tired of it.
The funniest part about this is that it's in response to an FSU fan with 120 followers lol. Herbie's totally snapped.
That fan had 34 followers when he initially responded... lol
Benefits = Schadenfreude
Just to keep beating this dead horse, I think RG3 had the best tweet about this:
Florida State is the first Undefeated Power 5 Conference Champion to not get into the College Football Playoff. Despite the ACC having a 6-4 record against the SEC this year. Despite their defense not giving up 30 points in a single game all year. Despite their offense having more yards in the ACC Championship than Michigan had in the Big 10 Championship. Despite holding Louisville's Top 20 Offense to 6 points. Despite beating 4 Top 25 teams. Despite finding a way to win with their Back up QB in a bitter rivalry game. Despite finding a way to win with their 3rd string QB in the ACC Championship Game. Florida State EARNED their spot in the CFP on the field. With and Without Jordan Travis. You don't punish or diminish the work of 100+ players and coaches because 1 player is not there on the field calling the shots. FSU always answered the bell this year and their response to losing their QB was to play POSSESSED ON DEFENSE. It's an absolute travesty that they were excluded from the CFP.
Ah, we're all gonna miss this with the expansion. Sure college football is a mess, but its our mess and that's why love it.
It's a week old, but a newsletter from my favorite outlet (SZD) did an amazing job of capture how shitty of a job Jim Phillips did. Two brief excerpts (I recommend reading the entire piece):
I've defended Phillips a lot over the years, but he should fired ASAP imo.
Boo Corrigan should go right along with him.
I blame Corrigan more than Phillips. He was on the damn Committee.
Corrigan had to abstain from the FSU discussions, due to those conflicts of interest.
I can bet you the SEC or B12 commissioners or AD's weren't abstaining from discussions. The entire point of an ACC representative on the committee was to represent the ACC. Not to abstain.
I had seen that committee members recuse themselves from discussions/votes on teams from the same conference, but the CFP website says it's just for the same school, so he may have been a part of it.
How many of us thought that FSU would be out, Phillips not realizing he needed to sell an undefeated P5 Champ with multiple wins over SEC teams is probably the last thing on the list of reasons to fire Phillips.
You can add to the list that he was also way too late in conference realignment; and instead of taking the top members of the pac which he claimed to have vetted the year prior, let them get poached by the BIG10 and took the leftovers, smu cal and Stanford
Yeah to meet that is a bigger grip, added Washington and Oregon would have been way better, even the zona's
Of my 5 friends who I text daily about CFB, 2 said this would happen, 2 said Texas would be left out for bama, and 2 of us (myself included) said FSU was a lock.
I was adamant that there was no way FSU would be left out. Clearly I was wrong. But clearly lots of other people saw the writing on the wall. Unlike Phillips, I'm not paid 7 figures to do this.
If you didn't realize that FSU was getting left off the second that Alabama beat Georgia you're full of yourself. The fact of the matter is and was that the SEC was NOT going to be left out of the playoff. Phillips should of been lobbying for FSU to get in over Texas before the SEC championship ever kicked off. Wasn't the ACC 7-3 against the SEC this year? He had a built in bragging rights advantage for this season.
We all know that the ACC will be left in the dust grasping for leftovers with whatever happens in realignment.
I honestly thought it was going to be Michigan, Washington, FSU, and Georgia. They would explain the Bama loss as a fluke and put them in anyway. That way they wouldn't have to deal with the fallout of Texas and Bama.
Phillips has done nothing of consequence for the acc. The acc is a sinking ship and Phillips is just riding along getting a paycheck and hoping the gor will keep him employed for the next 12 years. It's pretty good job security.
VT is absolutely pickle-fucked here. We need out of the ACC asap. Fsu and clemson know they are fucked too. Anybody who voted to add smu cal and Stanford either didn't understand how fucked they are, didn't care, or are part of the fucking problem.
I've said for the last couple years that the best thing that can happen to vt is the acc collapsing. It's an absolute shit league led by incompetent schmucks. The acc is actively holding back its best programs. It's almost criminal
Everything you say is true, but the most realistic option for VT, by far, is the B12. To me, that's a kiss of death. I'd much rather be in a held-together-by-GOR ACC than in any kind of B12. I don't give a damn about any team in that conference save WVU.
If you guarantee me a spot in either B10 or SEC, then sure, blow up the ACC. But otherwise, no.
Ideally I'd like the ACC to survive simply because I think we match well with our Mid-Atlantic and Southern in-conference rivals (UNC, NC State, UVA, Clemson, FSU, Miami, GT, and maybe Louisville). However, I'd want us to survive by getting a better TV deal which ain't happening...
Barring the above miracle, I just want the ACC to survive long enough for Tech to get back to our winning ways and become a national brand again. Giving us time to bump us back into the picture as viable adders for the SEC or B1G.
Not to mention the ACC is still a better paying conference then the new B12.
On this subject it appears the ACC and B12 are having a firm do an analysis on what it would take to merge the two conferences. They are also exploring scheduling alignments. Deal may also involve the remaining PAC2.
This guy typically has pretty reliable information so seeing this from him made me think it has some credence.
Article on potential merger
People who aren't referring to the Pac2 as "2Pac" are missing a golden opportunity. Hell, they're even West Coast teams!
Lipstick.... Pig
It's a pig whether there's lipstick or not...
To be fair, he did get the ACCN on Comcast, which was huge
It provides a financial improvement over the next 6 years. As a college football fan, I hate it, but it does nothing to lessen VT's position in the sport.
it's a drop in the bucket financial improvement that won't move the needle for 6 years and then after that we'll be making LESS money than we are now. It's a short-sighted add and would only make sense if we knew the GOR was going to fall apart between now and the end of the 6 years that we're going to be getting a tiny bit more money
Here is hoping that Phillips knew what he was doing and the pay for play minor league proposed by the NCAA happens before year 6 and we start losing money by actually having to pay SMU, Stanford, etc. full shares. I am also hoping we are in that pay for play that breaks all the media deals. Frankly, I am not sure that ESPN would not be happy to break their own SEC deal and resettle it for something less.
FSU spent(Edit for clarity) the whole summer very publicly kicking sand in the conference's face and then the commissioner is expected to lobby for them?
If I were Phillips, I would have, or risk this situation happening and basically allowing the things FSU was insinuating to become reality.
Yes, he's paid 7 figures annually to eat shit and smile. Phillips job is to do what's best for the ACC. What's best for the ACC is getting FSU a playoff bid, even if it's for no reason other than fueling state media the following year.
Other than the ACC network, that ESPN has a stake in and nobody watches, where would Phillips go to grandstand? I'm sure ESPN reached out to Sankey and was like, "Hey, why don't you come on and read this script we have for you?"
I'm not defending Phillips, this was just setup to happen from the jump.
Literally just hold a press conference
Another excerpt from the piece linked above:
What makes you think that ESPN would have aired anything Phillips said that said put in FSU over the SEC. The problem with other media is they probably have less than 10% of the viewership?
Bingo
ESPN turned their broadcast of the ACC Championship Game into a 3 hour SEC infomercial, going so far as to having their announcers shit all over the teams on the field so prop up the SEC. They would have buried anything that Phillips would have said.
Because espn is an entertainment platform, and they like drama, and they would've hit on it.
ESPN exists to make themselves more money. There was more money for them to make by getting Alabama in than there was by getting FSU in.
Except it is easier to sell ad's for inflated money for the SEC due to all their SEC hype. ESPN has to pay for that SEC contract somehow and that is by shilling for the SEC at every opportunity.
No, they didn't need to. Sankey knows what to do, and he was already on the horn with them about getting on the show, knowing what he wanted to say.
This is my thought as well. The espn/collusion is laughable to me. The SEC has benefited from decades of good management, specifically:
The acc has done none of these things. The ACC doesn't have an identity because none of the schools agree on anything. The acc network was late to cable. The acc is locked into a mediocre grant of rights because university presidents could not fathom that the current cfb landscape was possible.
I think time may tell on this one. If there is anything that can possibly be going for us, it's the length of the GOR, and that's in an environment where sports media rights are shrinking. We're already seeing some of the initial effects of that, with the PAC not being offered as much as they thought they would get, and the
B1GBig XII-II-II+II+IV-II+IV offered maintenance, not increases. It's possible (read: highly likely) that sports media rights are overvalued, which could work in our favor with a long GoR on what was at the start a very competitive media rights value. It's possible the B1G/SEC could, in time, pull back into our range from a rights valuation standpoint.Time will tell. I'm not optimistic, but I'll admit the possibility exists.
Edit: Wrote the wrong conference name. The Big XII... looked for an increase in rights per school when adding the Pac members, but just got same value for them.
Thousands of people in SEC territory that make 60K per year donate chunks of that money to Alabama football - a billion dollar operation with a 10 mil per year coach. They do that. They work their 9-5 job that pays 30-40 bucks per hour and they willfully give some of that to Nick Saban - a multi millionaire. Yes. The point is that those folks will watch SEC games on any platform for eternity. Hell, they will even if it becomes true pay per view- 100%. The ESPN SEC contract will get bigger not smaller.
I think this was a failure of leadership to manage expectations.
I assuming you're talking about when Oregon/Washington entered, the B10 didn't get an overall bump (which is why UO & UW got partial shares), like the B12 did when it added the Pac schools? My understanding is that this was due to pre-agreed-upon contracts, not due to the market not having appetite for those schools.
Meh, even if this is the case, (some) ACC schools still missed out on an opportunity to earn more than double what they make now. Getting a big raise is always good, even if it's only for a decade.
Is there a CFB future where the GoR elevates the ACC over the SEC and Big 10?
Maybe, but it's on a similar likelihood as a future where Taiwan invades the mainland, restores the Republic of China, and establishes a bulwark of Western-compatible values in the international order.
Agreed. But is there possibly a future where the gap narrows significantly? Maybe. It's not likely, but there is that possibility, due to the potential decline in sports rights fees.
I don't see it happening any time in the next decade or so. The most popular leagues are holding their value pretty well. It's the less popular leagues that will struggle. The SEC will be fine. The SEC is the college sports conference that has fans. As long as football is popular, the SEC will be fine. When football popularity dips, then everyone's done.
I think the playbook is there now for how to handle it, even if you think your team is a lock. You gotta be on national media before the championship games are played lobbying for your team(s). I would have gone further if I had been in the ACC comish chair - I would have hired a plane to fly over over showcasing FSU's and the ACC's accomplishments this year. Whoopin' the hell out of LSU in what was practically their house (against the now-reigning Heisman), ACC with a winning record over the SEC, 11 bowl-eligible teams. FACTS
E$PN would just have ten analysts say they were losses over and over while presenting a suckumentary of $EC power.
In response to legislators, CFP Executive Director Bill Hancock had this to say regarding FSU not being selected and it shows exactly how E$PN and the CFP view the LOLACC....
It just shows how much control ESPN has in the national conversation right now.
A school like Virginia Tech has no hope anymore. Even if we go undefeated there is no way we will be viewed as an equal to anyone else with 1 or 2 losses. Even with the expanded playoff, schools like VT who make it in will get shafted in seeding to ensure they cannot advance. Reality is now fueled by perception.
It's like I said. Schools that finish undefeated and get snubbed for the playoffs should award themselves the title. Have a parade, commission a trophy, the whole nine yards.
People may laugh, but they are the ones who are unserious. Give them a chance to settle it on the field.
They have to beat Georgia first. But I would definitely not make fun of them for making rings and wanting it recorded they were national champs.
Losing a bowl game hasn't stopped teams from claiming titles in the past
Yep - bowl games were just exhibitions until the late 80s/early 90s
They were a reward for a good year, not 50/50. And not punishment going to Idaho in December. Or playing in a baseball stadium and standing on the same sideline.
Does the "sos" factor in beating the #5 team (from the sec) 45-24???
Doesn't count because FSU was only 2-0. The other 11 were irrelevant.
Regardless of your opinion on him, I really like Chip Kelly's answer here
Yes. Yes. Yes.
With his "thoughts about it" being so clear....
He should be that commissioner.
Holy shit. This. This right here. You can keep the "conferences" as divisions and go X Divisional games, Y conference games, Z G5 games.
Do a reset on all non-football sports back to the 2020 conferences.
It's a great idea, but you need 65 college presidents to agree to this. College presidents aren't exactly in tune with reality (please don't interpret this as a political statement)
Yeah, league presidents will never go for it sadly. The rich programs in CFB want to keep it that way, they don't want to share the pie. And even if this did happen, those programs will still be looking for a competitive edge unless enforcement and sanctions are serious. Alabama or Ohio State couldn't stand being on a level playing field with 60 other teams.
I don't think that has anything to do with the bluebloods gate keeping. I think it's more that
And we wonder how and why ESPN shafted FSU
Announcers been hanging out with Orlovsky in math class.
As I said in part 1 of this thread, them getting left out of playoffs is going to expedite FSU's pursuits of leaving ACC. Obviously we don't know how it will happen, but it's no longer a matter of if, but when. IMO they (FSU) will find enough donors to pony up the money to leave.
Well, this could expedite the minor league aspect of this things...moving to the 64 teams breaking off. But given TV deals and long-term planning that the college presidents and AD will claim, expedited means in 8 years.
Someone will tell F$U that the playoff is expanded next year, and the $EC and B1G will chuckle and ignore the screams from the bottom right corner.
I don't think them getting snubbed makes one bit of difference in the timeline. They really, really wanted to leave before, but couldn't find a way to do so. The really, really, REALLY want to leave now, and something has changed?
Maybe they can get a few more donors, but we're talking over $600 million here. THey're going to need private equity or Saudi money. Maybe that happens soon, but it won't be because of the snub. They've been exploring both options for months now.
If you don't think them getting left out of playoffs in the way they did, didn't expedite their timeline, then we'll have to agree to disagree. IMO no way it was just status quo after getting snubbed in the fashion it happened.
My point isn't that they're not pissed and really want to get out. It's that they've been trying really hard to get out forever. The dollars are so big that pissed off alumni aren't going to make a difference.
Understood... I guess my main point/rebuttal would be to this...
I think the playoff snub (and loss of millions) will make they explore other options even harder in the sense of putting in more man power, time, money, effort, etc. into it than they have before.
how in the world do you expect FSU football to be "competitive" without millions more per year? How? I mean this year, they weren't competitive at all, and they just didn't sign a top 3-4 class in the country. They are really struggling to be "competitive" in today's landscape. They must break the GOR and leave so their program can "survive"
Those are all good questions. I am not behind closed doors. I am not the one who see's the infusion of money (from donors/boosters/whoever)... I just believe they can probably hire some top notch lawyers to interpret the language in the agreement they signed to potentially leave earlier/pay their way out.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see it as "they are screwed, they signed the paper work, they are stuck in ACC until 2036"... I don't care either way. But I won't be surprised if they find a way out that will leave us shaking our heads.
And by way out, you mean judge(s) sympathetic to their cause.
The same issue exists as it always has
The fuck are they going to to about it? If they had any legal case they'd have done something by now rather than continuing a 2 year temper tantrum. If they want to leave they know the cost, about $1 billion. Pay up or shut the fuck up
I'm so tired of listening to their whining and complaining. They're a bunch of spoiled children who have never been told no in their lives. It fucking sucks what happened to them and it sucks to know that in the ACC we are all permanently fucked, but to continually act like they're better than everyone else because they finally had a good team for the first time in a decade, well... Fuck right off
And fuck ESPN for fueling this shit.
I hope they leave tonight. Dead serious. Leave the ACC- get it over with. The sun will rise for VT tomorrow. Leave the conference already. Show the world that despite going undefeated and signing a top 5 recruiting class, you simply don't have the "resources" you need to compete in football. They just can't compete without billions more- duh/obvious. FSU can't compete in football without more money. Leave already.
Dude. We are the same age and I can turn the "crotchety asshole" switch on a dime but you my friend are the epitome of the characters in the "Dont Turn into Your Parents" commercials.
The passion....the absoluteness of your opinions...the sometimes (well, more often than not) anger......it wreaks of "old man syndrom".
Reminds me of Stinky the Grump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFut8RBwMrk
You are outta whack
I know. I'm sorry. I've watched DC's comments over the years that seems at one time long ago receive more down votes than legs and then over time more folks started to get his groove and appreciate his comments. I think recent years show this through the comment interaction (for the most part) and turkey legs received. I was more so trying to throw some fun and giggles his way.
All in all, DC, your take is spot on and wholesomely agreed upon. In short. It's a shame and stinks to high heaven. But, these things are out of our control. We can boycott and vent. But The Bourgeoisie and their mountains of cash rule the day. The "purity" of whatever degree that was there 20/25 years ago started its downward spiral when ESPN became the homer network for the SEC.
I agree with this. Does DC go HARD in the paint? Yes. Is he consistent with his opinions and are they well thought out takes, however hot they may be? Also, Yes. For me, DC is a very valuable member of this community, and for me that is what is what I pay for here. Are all the articles and content produced by the staff worth the subscription? Of course, but for me it is the community of folks on here that make it worth it to me and why I stick around. This place would not be the same to me if DC up and decided to quit TKP, which I hope never happens.
Appreciate you brotha
Hey, for what it's worth, I appreciate your opinions as well, whether I agree with them or not.
Just maybe don't go so hard when someone dares to question you, OK? You have a habit of getting aggressive with folks who don't appreciate your viewpoint.
Be a duck.
You are not wrong. I appreciate you too. Everyone on here is cool by me.
I think this is officially the first time I have ever been called cool. Cool.
My kids think I'm cool, but they're 5 so they don't really know very much.
Agreed... he says what most people are afraid to say and/or calls a spade a spade.
And I will. ESPN and Fox aren't getting a dime of my money when they ruin the sport that I loved since I was 5 years old. You can find all of the games online for free anyways. I'll donate to VT directly
Not to beat the dead horse, but the sport is ruined. Imagine Tyrod opting out of the Orange Bowl because its not a playoff game? Imagine Whit begging your for Hokie Club denotations and Triumph pay the players donations? Imagine zero transfer rules, high school players demanding money for official visits, having to recruit your whole team every year and having to upgrade facilities every 5 mins? to compete for the Music City Bowl? Imagine UNC - synonymous with the ACC- looking to bolt for money? Imagine FSU going undefeated and saying they don't have the resources to win? Its here brother. Its ruined already.
The organization of the sport as we knew it is definitely dead. The future organization of the sport is an ever-evolving situation that is being driven by money above all other considerations. BUT, the games are still decided on the playing field. Even though two conferences are now dominating access to the post-season, the top players and the available funding, it's still a game decided by players and coaches who are constantly changing. Except for Saban, who may be immortal. I still have hope that the future of CFB and VT's place in it will be fun to watch, even though predatory conference expansion, inequitable TV deals and NCAA incompetence/impotence are sad realities.
Barely dude. There are clear as day calls to save the top brands. UCF beats Oklahoma this year with just slightly less biased officiating. I'm sure there are several more examples.
And with NIL the talent stacking at the top is more than ever. It may take a few years but I believe it will accumulate and make the top even more untouchable
Bingo, if the on-field results are the most important thing in college football then why is FSU not in the playoff and two 1-loss teams are?
The days of VT winning 4 acc titles (unless the league changes) and playing in the Natty are over. I say that because over the past 30, 40, 50 years VT has shown that it simply does not/can not raise cash like the top brands in football- for various reasons. Now more than ever it is simply about money. How many analysts can you hire? How many private jets for recruiting? Budget for high school bribe visits? Budget for coordinators that make 7 figures in the SEC? etc etc. It is 100% about money now. It's pro sports, thus VT's track record of raising money is going to prevent us from competing- this is real- unlike the fake whining of 13-0 FSU.
Well- I won't argue this in regards to college football- which is the genesis of me posting on this forum. It's ridiculous man. Arch Manning makes more money than NFL MVP front runner Brock Purdy. And Manning didn't play a snap this year. FSU just went undefeated and they can't "compete". High School players are getting NIL deals while parents volunteer to sell hot dogs at their games so they can buy jerseys. It's fucking insane. fucking dumb and all about the mighty dollar. They don't give two fucks about you and I- the Fan. They don't. Whit doesn't, Sands, doesn't Triumph NIL doesn't. FSU doesn't give a fuck about their fans - never have. Its all about the money. It's all about entitlement and it fucking reeks. I have been a platinum VT donor for years. Season tix for years, etc. And I now think to myself, why do they need my money? Just go get it from ESPN or NIL collectives, etc. So yeah- the current state of us arguing over whether an undefeated top 5 team with a top recruiting class can't be "competitive" because of money now- fucking guilty old man as charged.
I'm sorry are you arguing that Brock Prudy, a guy that everyone outside of Iowa will forget about in 10 years is more valuable than a member of football royalty? I couldn't pick Brock Purdy out of a line up. Yet Arch has never played a snap and I already know the face he makes after throwing an interception. More people probably know who Cooper Manning is then they do Brock Purdy.
Guess you haven't seen Purdy's face and name all over tv and talk shows over the last year lol . Let's not over exaggerate here .
Adverse impacts of the Sporting Elites F-ing FSU
https://www.espn.com/college-sports/recruiting/football/story/_/id/39155...
Next time you write a post with that many f-bombs in it, maybe take a walk around the block and cool off before you hit "post". You could have made your point without all that anger. If you don't want your opinions to be questioned or challenged, then keep them to yourself instead of posting them on an Internet message board and then whining like a toddler whenever anyone disagrees with you.
I don't have a problem with your opinions (though I sometimes disagree), but your tone could use some work.
(I know it wasn't you, but I couldn't resist.)
Nah, his tone is spot on. The sport is ruined and that's a travesty! And one more fuck for good measure - Fuck ESPN! (Two actually.)
NSFW
Brooklynite student and the Falkland Islands
Lol I've never seen this before. Hilarious
Reminds me of my electromagnetics professor that couldn't pronounce the L in flux. Some student didn't pick up as quickly as the rest of us and went a bit like the video. The student wasn't cursing but the professor did mention flux a lot in his rant. I think another student helped other student out while the professor was trying to explain the word flux.
I think the really funny thing is where do they think they are going to go??? The SEC doesn't want FSU. They already have the Florida Gators. FSU brings no additional TV market that they don't already have. I don't see the SEC taking them just to keep out the B1G. The B1G took Washington & Oregon for reduced shares, is FSU going to agree to that? The B12 pays less money than the ACC.
Let's see where their recruiting classes rank when they're in the Sun Belt Conference.
IF they get out of the ACC and media rights, FSU is a brand big enough to spur both leagues to expand. The B1G goes to the table with fox with 22 teams and so does the SEC with ESPN. It- could- spur the 2 super conference model. But ESPN did just confirm they think FSU's brand is meh by leaving them out of the playoffs.
B1G went to the West Coast; I'm sure they'd love to get into Florida. FSU would accept temporarily reduced revenue, 'cause long term.
I mean, this is great internet fodder, but how binding is "you have to give us what we want by the deadline set by us", really?
It's not a deadline set by a court, but by the filed lawsuit.
It's called a reason to b#^@ and moan, and go to the media about how they are being harmed.
They WERE harmed.
And all college sports consumers in the process.
I mean, if you're a fan of one of the current top ten teams you might be OK with it, but for me, this was some stinky business, right up there with calling Danny Coal's catch "not a catch".
It didn't harm VT directly, butIt indirectly hurts all teams outside of the $EC or B1G.Edit: As pointed out below, it DID hurt the ACC the VT directly. Now I'm really pissed.
We (VT) were harmed, the ACC brings home less bowl money. We lost out on money because of the committee.
We also lost out on going to a better bowl because of it. We should be playing in Charlotte today, not Annapolis, and Louisville should be in the NY6.
And I love that, for the little I watched of the bowls yesterday, ESPN talking heads are STILL going on about how FSU needs to prove to the committee they made a mistake. Bitch, please, FSU doesn't need to prove shit. You all screwed them over, I don't blame them for bailing en masse for the bowl to ruin your product.
Exactly.
Hey I'm all for it as long as it gives actual transparency to how much ESPN and the SEC have been manipulating the sport
Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
The Florida AG should have more important things to worry about. And if it's true, they should withdraw based on that 63-3 drubbing FSU just got.
They were only down, what, 25 players?
Only three starters played in the game
Edit: TLDR - Georgia went out there and played like a team trying to prove they belonged in the playoffs, FSU sat at home and cried about it.
Your point? If the argument is they were good enough to make the playoff, getting curb stomped by another team that didn't make the playoff doesn't help their case. If the argument is that not so many players would have opted out, so it would have been a closer game, you can't tell me ALL of them would have played. I mean, what's the excuse for 25 players not playing? We didn't want to prove how much we deserved to be in the playoffs? We didn't want to prove the best the ACC has to offer can compete? We didn't want to see how good we could be against a strong opponent, see where our weaknesses are to be a better team next year? Or best yet, we don't want to play against a bunch of guys who will likely go pro, demonstrating that they also deserve to be in the NFL.
It would appear the only thing they wanted to prove is they are petulant babies who threw a snit over getting excluded and so decided not to play at all. And yeah, maybe some of them want to concentrate on the draft, but not 25, and I would imagine Georgia has as many or more players that would want to declare for the draft but still played.
All the excuses that you can make for FSU players not playing applies to Georgia players as well, other than being babies about not getting included as an undefeated P5 conference champion. Well, guess what? Georgia went out there and played like they were trying to prove they should have been included over the other teams that were chosen. And given the score, I'd argue that's a hard conclusion to ignore.
Georgia didn't get robbed of their spot. They didn't earn one.
So yeah, their starters played FSU's backups with a chip on their shoulders.
What did FSU lose, really? Not much. An ornamental bowl, while the playoff spot they earned was handed to someone else.
Georgia didn't earn a spot? Theoretically, the top 4 spots should go to the top 4 teams. If a P5 conference had a situation where their two best teams each had three losses before the conference championship game, does (should) winning the conference mean you're an automatic qualifier? Hell no. The ACC was a mess this year. Us and GA Tech, two 6-6 schools (before the bowls) were tied for 4th place. Winning a weak conference isn't as impressive as winning a strong conference, or even coming up with one loss in a strong conference. The SEC had a 12 win, 11 win, two 10 win, and one 9 win team at the top. Navigating through that is a lot more impressive than what FSU did. All the other P5 conferences had much more impressive wins through the top 6 teams, meaning the wins were probably harder for the top schools. Looking at that, yeah, I seriously doubt I would have chosen FSU either. Given that Texas beat Alabama during the season, I think you gotta let them in, but I probably would have included Georgia over one of either Michigan or Washington, and definitely over FSU. Regardless, I think going to a 12 team playoff solves these problems, so doesn't make much sense to argue over it.
You went scorched earth and I respect it. Next year these arguments won't matter with the 12 team playoff. The same teams will keep winning, but the teams getting in part should be more settled. I'm sure there will be arguments about 12 and 13/14ish spots, but the discourse surrounding those will be much less vitriolic. You're splitting hairs at that point resume-wise, and those teams will have 2 or 3 losses.
Yeah, I think the 4 team playoffs sounded good, but how many people expected one-offs like an undefeated UCF, or something like FSU, or the dominance of Georgia and Alabama in the same conference? I think the 12 team definitely allows more deserving teams to have their shot (I think 8 wins would have been more reasonable and easier for sequencing - for 12 do some teams play play-in games like the extra 4 in the basketball tournament? I'm sure there will be arguments for those teams and the extra game not being fair/harder on the players).
A 12 team format will reward the deeper teams, and no doubt the $EC and B1G will draw the top spots and play the lower ranked teams. $EC wins again.
I agree with you that eight teams would have been better. Still, I'm telling you there's a chance.
THIS year, however, they definitely did the wrong thing, and deserve all the criticism they get.
I think these arguments are just getting started. They will matter for byes, which is huge in a playoff especially for football. And while spots 8-11 won't have much claim to being able to win a title, they will have huge implications for conference revenue. Expect to see ESPN prioritize the big draws (as always) but favor the SEC in head to head w the Big Ten because they run the playoff and get the final say at the end of the day
Power ratings or resume? Those are your choices. "Best" doesn't mean anything.
If you go by power ratings you get the best prediction of who will win this week, but it's not infallible. Texas would've been #1 or 2 if we went by power ratings and Washington would've been left out. A lot of times the team with the better resume is better than the team with higher power ratings. Which is why I believe it should always be the team with the best resume ie most deserving
Even best resume isn't as cut and dry. Teams are punished for late season losses, regardless of who it's to. Georgia losing to Alabama in the SEC championship game is a much better loss than, say, Texas losing to 12th ranked Oklahoma. Conversely, FSU staying undefeated in a conference where two 6-6 teams were tied for 4th place isn't as impressive as teams from other conferences where there were multiple 10 win and 9 win teams they had to go through (and remain undefeated).
Honestly, I'm surprised that, when they created the playoffs, it wasn't obvious that choosing the top 4 teams would be so difficult and didn't opt for an 8 team playoff instead.
Regardless, we won't have that problem going forward, and instead anticipate the new complaints will be based on teams from 5-12 that have to play an extra game, which favors the top 4 anyway. People will likely call for an 8 team playoff, and that way even the top 4 teams have to play the same number of games to win.
If you are looking for the best team then you can't do that in a single game. The NFL champion is not always the best team that year, they are just the champion. The Steelers won as a 6th seed once, they just got hot at the right time. Was the Giants really better than the 18-1 Patriots? Thr Giants had more losses, they just took them at better times in the season. UGA took a loss by 3 at the worse time. They could easily be the best team this year.
If we are looking for the best team then having writers and coaches and computers select is as good as any method.
100% if Georgia loses to Alabama earlier in the season, they make the playoffs.
I honestly watched most of the Michigan Bama game and thought to myself Georgia would be killing both of these teams. UGA had a bad day and it cost them.
UGA had a lot of bad days this year, but yeah, they are a better team than both of these teams.
Bad day? I'm not so sure. Bad plan, I would agree with. Michigan defensively went the route of pressure against Milroe rather than the spy, and at time, double spy, method of UGA.
The spy/double spy method came at the cost of pressure, and Milroe was more effective at finding his short and medium level passes as a result. I think it's important to note that Michigan had the benefit of seeing this "how not to play Alabama" strategy as the most recent data point with film to accompany it. I wouldn't be surprised if the games had been swapped (Michigan in the SECCG and UGA in the playoff), the results might be flipped as well.
I think there is a viable argument that this year's UGA is better than this Alabama team, but this Alabama team still beat them in the one game we got to actually see on the field. Alabama should also get credit for putting Beck under pressure more effectively than anyone else had been able to all year.
To go back to "bad plans," I think it's the same argument for Alabama's offensive approach against Michigan. Rees wasted almost every possession of the first half because his initial plan was off the mark. If they had started that game out running the ball like they did in the second half after adjustments were made and trying shorter stuff, giving Milroe some rollouts (still didn't run enough of these), etc. I think Bama could have won by two scores. Hell, it took a fumble and some bad play calling to keep Alabama from likely taking a two score lead in the fourth quarter even with their awful start on offense. It's no different than my point about UGA's approach to Alabama. If they had benefitted from seeing their spy/double spy approach fail miserably like Michigan did, they probably have a different game plan.
1 key tonight- Michigan's defense. If they can contain Pennix and his WRs, Michigan wins. Michigan can NOT win a shootout with Washington however.
I hate Michigan with a seething passion that might actually exceed that of UVA. I hope Washington stomps them into the ground. Washington will have the best offensive line that Michigan has gone against this year.
If Michigan wins, I hope the NCAA announces tomorrow that they have to forfeit this entire season due to the various NCAA and criminal investigations.
You better hope Washington beats them. There is no indication that the NCAA is suddenly going to grow a backbone.
True unfortunately, otherwise Harbaugh would have already been suspended for the 6 games over illegal contact that has been unresolved since 2020? Michigan self imposed a three game ban against cupcakes for a 6 game suspension offense. They have also fought and been uncooperative for the entire investigation. So at least three games this year are probably going to be stricken off the books at the end of the investigation if they ever find their balls.
As for the other investigation, Michigan bringing Stalions to the semi-final game and sitting him behind their bench is thumbing their nose at the NCAA. Anything less than a 1 year show cause penalty for Harbaugh is too little.
I hate Michigan, but I have a good friend who's a rabid Washington State fan and there is no joy in his life right now. The Huskies winning a national championship might be too much for him to handle. I doubt he's going to watch the game, but I might swing by with a bottle of whiskey if it looks like UW's going to win.
Washington needs a track meet. They can't grind out a win against Michigan if Michigan's D is playing well. Unfortunately for Washington, Harbaugh has their signals, so suddenly Pennix will look like Grant Wells.
This aged well.
The matchup I'm watching is UW's front 7 vs Michigan run game. If Michigan can establish the run, they can control the pace and limit the number of times Pennix touches the ball. The Michigan defense just needs to slow down Pennix & Co a little bit, and be efficient on offense.
So, basically, TKP thinks the two key matchups are Michigan's defense vs. Washington's offense and Michigan's offense vs. Washington's defense. Somewhere John Madden is smiling... /s
But also special teams too. You can really flip the field with good special teams play.
Somewhere, Joe Morgan is thinking "Michigan can't beat Washington by outscoring them"
This exactly what I was talking about
Unleash the Pennix!
29 players away, and over 87% of passing, receiving, and rushing from the season was not at that game.
Jason Gay in the WSJ wrote a great opinion piece a couple days ago titled "The Year College Football Ate Itself"
The piece is definitely targeted towards casuals (not sickos like most people here), but his use of language was really striking to me. A couple excerpts I liked (but please read full article for full effect):
As a Gulfstream employee....the 800 isn't in production yet
Isn't that part of the analogy?
Those poor poor media personalities that have absolutely no influence on the big picture despite controlling the narrative and somehow knowing all rankings and bowl/playoff selections before they are announced. But yeah, let's feel bad for the guys like Herbie who have done nothing but stoke the flames the past month and gaslight any fans who can see through the crap
Alabama with a blatant recruiting violation by having a top portal target at Rose Bowl practice meeting with coaches during this dead period. Came down to Alabama and Michigan as his finalists so of course the Blue fan base is up in arms after Harbaugh got a suspension for his zoom meeting with a recruit during a dead period among other things.
If nothing else, I'd like for VT to get into the SEC just so we don't get in trouble for shit. Because everyone knows that the sec is going to protect Alabama here and nothing will come of it. Nothing significant, anyway
The dead period is only for high school recruits? Right? Inform me because I'm not sure.
This was my understanding as well. All the rules I've seen on google say that the dead period is for high school recruits. I have not found anything that says transfers are subject to the dead period
You are correct - Link for NCAA rules which specifically call out college coaches in the dead period (see the definition) to not be able to "visit their high schools." Dead period is only for HS recruiting.
He's a transfer target from Southern Cal who has since publicly transferred to Alabama. It's possible he was already enrolled for the Spring semester before this. I haven't seen anyone I follow report this as a violation.
The narrative is being drawn from his announcement committing to Alabama didnt occur until after this practice. I am sure they will generate paperwork showing he was committed prior to dead period. I just think it's comical seeing Michigan fans being up in arms if it did happen.
See my response above to Bar1990, including a link to NCAA rules FAQ that shows the dead period only applies to HS athletes.
Hey everyone, I've largely ignored these threads because while I'm a bit wise to the "script" in nfl and realistically cfb is basically a wasteland, I honestly think y'all are playing chicken little.
That said, I just want to bring it to everyone's attention: Kirk Cousins looks like he has AI cheekbones. (Like worse than Brady; didn't k ow where else to put this cursed information but really it's just unnatural).
HNY I guess...
Early preseason Top 25 that gave me a good laugh even though it's accurate....
As long as Saban is at Bama and doesn't lose his mind, we really have a 10 team playoff. Bama is in- unless they have 4 losses- and ND is in unless they lose 3 games.
4. Ole Miss
6. Oregon
7. UL (maybe Clemson?)
9. LSU
11. Colorado? -- not sure who else this could be -- maybe UL if Clemson gets 7 -- most portal-heavy teams are in major rebuild mode except UL and Ole Miss
13. Arizona
14. SC Trojans
16. The choices are slim, but FSU works, and seems appropriately ranked
Harbaugh telling the press today at the pregame that coaches and administrators should take a 5%-10% pay cut to pay players when he is expected to jump to the NFL for next season is such crap. Tries to make himself look benevolent while it likely won't apply to him.
Harbaugh is a lot of the most recent reasons I hate Michigan. Still trying to figure out how he took the football team to Italy for "practice" without it being a violation.
Of course it's a violation. So is live advanced scouting- every coach knows this. Harbaugh and far too many other coaches today give zero fucks. He was suspended for 6 games- 3 against tomato cans. His punishment? He is playing for a natty tonight. Wow harsh.
without watching I will assume he announced he is putting 10% of his salary into the Mich NIL fund. /s
Let's go huskies!
P.s. it's an ACC officiating crew so ...... Buckle up
Too bad Ron Cherry isn't still officiating.
Washington looks completely outmanned up front on O and D.
Dear God Washington's run fits are like early season Virginia Tech. Their boundary side LB inexplicably shot through a gap on the field side
You saw that too? Yeewww!