Monumental, Ted Leonsis's company owning the Wizards and Capitals, are looking to move the team out of DC and to Potomac Yard in Virginia. They are proposing a full entertainment district with performing arts venues, restaurants, bars, etc. This spot is adjacent to the VT campus under construction.
Detailed map of the proposed new arena and surrounding land parcels. Renderings from Monumental show what they believe the new entertainment district could look like. Full story: https://t.co/sEdtthUBeK pic.twitter.com/j1WXiDL3Dk— Sam Fortier (@Sam4TR) December 13, 2023
Exactly where are we for this sports announcement? Circle on left is Potomac Yard shopping area, circle on right is Arena development site. Behind circle 2 is new Va Tech building under construction. Photo live this morning. @wcp pic.twitter.com/hitz0UynEE— Tom Sherwood (@tomsherwood) December 13, 2023
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Listening on the radio now and sounds like this is a done deal
This article makes it sound inevitable too, but a final vote by the state's full general assembly is needed: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39100527/ted-leonsis-plans-move-wizards-capitals-virginia
Leonsis wearing a VT tie this morning....hey Triumph NIL, I think I know where your next phone call should be.
If he changes the Crapitals' colors to maroon and orange then i might just have to convert to being a fan.
I'll believe it when I see it. Youngkin is desperate and sweaty for something to put on his resume. And Leonsis, who needs to light a fire under Bowser, totally mailed it in but made sure to go out of his way to mention DC.
The presser is full of buzz words like "innovation" "entrepreneurship" and "analytics" that sound good but mean nothing. And lots of mention of HQ2 which has never lived up to the hype and will likely never actually materialize.
Deal is years away from reality so I'm more than a little skeptical.
I don't want to hear about people struggling when downtown billon dollar arenas are now disposable. What a joke. Cap One is literally a metro stop and is in great shape- still looks new. Let's tear it down because the new place has 5 more suites. I don't want to hear anything else about the "economy"
Cap One sits directly above a very central metro station serving three of the six lines, and less than 10 min walk away from the closest station for the other three lines. And thats not even accounting for all the bus lines that have stops at Cap One.
Potomac Yards metro is nearly the end of the line for two of the six lines. Transit by metro is going to suffer dramatically. Its basically night and day.
For some, like Leonsis, billion dollar buildings apparently are disposable. Everyone else not so much, regardless of how low unemployment is or how well the economy is performing. And given Leonsis is just trying to play DC against VA to get them to pay for another billion dollar facility this whole stunt seems pretty tone deaf given the context, especially for lots of locals working hard to pay the bills.
The development and construction will be good for the local economy. The Tech campus will give some sustainability. That said, it sounds like the location is not as good for commuters to game who use public transit.
The distance from Cap One to Potomac yards is 4 miles. It doesn't do anything for the local economy except siphon tax revenues out of DC into VA. This kind of rent seeking did wonders for our economy before so why not keep doing it right?
Lived in DC/MD all my life until recently- moved to Phoenix. In Phoenix- to get to 4 miles from the footprint center- which is downtown- will take you roughly - ummm 4 minutes unless there is a multi car pile up somewhere. Try driving from Cap One to National Airport and report back how long it takes you. That's the difference. That drive could easily take 45 mins - easy.
It's still all the "local economy" though.
yeah, but VA isn't getting a cut of those dollars when they are spent in DC. Youngkin needs to appeal to his constituents and have factual results of positive economic impact, Leonsis needs a new shiny to increase Monumental's franchise value. I'm sure Leonsis doesn't WANT to move, but if VA is going to throw a lot more money to make his pursuit of increasing his franchise value that much faster, yeah, he's gonna move across the river.
Also, I don't want to hear about federal telework being revoked because the downtown area is "dead". It's not federal employees' fault that businesses are moving out of the downtown areas.
Yeah I'm a DC resident and the idea that it's the responsibility of federal workers to ensure the viability of commercial districts is dumb. The mayor is an idiot for even thinking that in public. But the idea of permanent telework was never going to be a reality. At least you'll get some version of a hybrid model going forward. I know people who, because of a temporary COVID policy, relocated to places like NC and FL and will have the gall to get pissed when that bubble bursts.
My government worker friend has never gone back to the office. As Covid was starting to wrap up, they told her to come back to the office to get all of her stuff. They were sending her to work permanently from her house.
Then again, my brother in law works for an investment house in the computer department. When covid happened they all started working from their homes (years). Now the management is saying they need to start coming back to the big office buildings they rent and half his team had moved to 2-3 hours from the building.
My question: why? If it works, if you're meeting your targets and getting your shit done remotely, why should you *ever* have to go into the office?
You shouldn't. Plain and simple. And the private sector has already figured this out. Some companies, like mine (which is a multi-billion dollar annual revenue, global company) have fully remote jobs (and have had fully remote jobs since before the pandemic) - there are just some jobs where there is absolutely no need to go into an office so long as you have a good, secure internet connection. Companies can jettison that office space and drop a significant overhead expense by paying people to work remotely. It's a win-win for the companies and the employees. The only losers (if there are any) are the old-school thinkers who really believe that people need to spend 1-2+ hours commuting back-and-forth to an office every day for "reasons"
I get it, there are trade-offs. As a person who has had both office jobs and remote jobs, there are certainly pros and cons to both. And some jobs require people to be physically at a certain office for X, Y, or Z reason. But IF a job can be done completely remotely, via e-mails, virtual meetings, phone calls, etc... then there's really no reason for a company to spend a shit-ton of $$$$ on an office space that they don't need
I love having a remote job. I do miss the water-cooler chats and comradery that comes with spending 8-10 hours a day in the same space with the same people. But I'm willing to give those up for being able to spend more time with my young child at home and have no commute. I have a lot of flexibility. As long as I'm getting my work done, I don't have to answer any difficult or uncomfortable questions. I can go get my hair cut in the middle of the day on a Wednesday. I can take my kid to the doctor in the middle of the day on a Monday. I can hit the road early on a Friday if I'm going out of town. I'm reachable when I'm supposed to be and I get my work done. My boss is happy. I'm happy. It's a great set-up if you can find a job that can be done remotely.
I have been trying to shape the narrative at my Army office to reduce our building footprint. We are currently holding fifteen buildings and even in a hybrid environment we could easily reduce our footprint by six buildings with zero impact to the mission.
It's been like pulling teeth with senior leaders that still have the mindset that we should be back in the office 100% all because they would rather yell out their office door than hit a couple buttons on their computer. Our workforce has shown it is massively more effective remote. It cuts down on the water cooler conversations, group smoke breaks and those couple of people that spend all day wandering around the office initiating chit chat.
My organization just put all of the leadership into a coach driven training on the effective use of remote and hybrid work while maintaining morale as an organization so hopefully that has some impact.
The real losers right now are the guys in commercial real estate. It's heading to a bubble burst similar to housing crash in 2008.
This is an interesting point. I don't know very much about commercial real estate so I wonder if the industry dynamics are really similar to the 2008 crash. The '08 crash was created by very shady lending practices by banks giving way too many huge loans out to people they shouldn't have for way overpriced homes. I agree that commercial real estate owners are going to be the losers here but I don't know if it's going to have the same impact as the crash in '08. As businesses start leaving office space there is going to be a drop in demand and a corresponding spike in supply which will drive down prices and force owners to take, potentially, huge losses. But since you're not talking about millions of private citizens working 3 part time, hourly, jobs defaulting on their loans I'm not sure we'll see the same type of downturn. I imagine most commercial real estate investors will have plans - they may sell those buildings at a loss to mitigate their own losses (theoretically, they've been building equity in the properties and taking cashflow on top for a while so selling at a loss shouldn't be a huge deal). A lot of those buildings may be purchased by developers who plan to convert them to housing, which wouldn't be such a bad things since residential is a market that needs more supply anyway.
Commercial real estate is a dumpster-fire ready to happen, but it's the banks that'll take it on the chin. If you can't name the top 3 commercial real estate groups, you're not alone. It's a niche market of mall owners and shady financing. The banks are the real loan holders, and they're playing a shell game with record-low valuations and 40+ yr commercial loans. As the work-from-home voices get stronger and more leases expire/default/re-sign at reduced values, buildings are typically worth about 50% of their loan value. Ouch.
Renovations to housing (publicly-funded of course) has been considered, but most office buildings aren't suitable for conversion to apartments; not enough plumbing for kitchens and bathrooms. Most contractors agree typical office buildings would be cheaper to tear down and start over than renovate to apartments. Stricter regulations for energy efficiency have recently been passed, which only makes the existing office space more costly to maintain or upgrade.
Right now most regional banks are sitting on a loan portfolio that makes the 2008 housing crisis look tame. I say regional banks because they have relatively more skin in the game than big banks. The banking industry overall has been borrowing all year to stay afloat, and their stock prices have reflected this; most big banks have a P/E ratio below 10, while the S&P 500 is a 25. The banking ethos of "pretend and extend" (the same playbook for 2009-2019) suggests with high interest rates, better lending discipline, and LOTS of inflation, the banks can earn their way out from under the trillions in bad commercial loans they hold. Time will tell, but the house of cards that is commercial real estate could fall quickly rather than slowly as planned.
Especially when you have employees that lived in big cities to commute to buildings. Now that they might be working remotely, they are leaving the cities. Now that big skyscraper is half empty, the restaurants are selling to less people, less need for locals, etc. When you talk hundreds of millions to build a skyscraper, and now they are under populated, somebody and possibly multiples are going to take a bath. The developer goes under, and now the bank owns a building worth less than the cost to build it.
From a July article on Manhattan just to show an indication of where this industry is. Companies walking away from offices, which has a shit rolls downhill effect on much of the other commercial spaces around it. No one working there means restaurants are empty, drycleaners have no clothes, hair places without heads to effect and on down the line.
Article Here.
No offense to Don Catalano or iOptimize Realty, but I'm not sure what Manhattan they're describing...I've been up there frequently this fall.... it's as busy, full, and bustling as ever. And vacancy rates have begun dropping again. Try renting an apartment or an office space below Harlem. I'm sure there are areas with buildings experiencing vacancy, but that's to be expected in a city that size and with that amount of churn.
Because companies have bought or rented big spaces for their employees. They want them present. They want to make sure people aren't using shaker mice, etc. to simulate working from home. They want to be big brother.
One issue with permanent telework is that, honestly, a lot of people simply can't be trusted to actually do an honest days work when they're not actively supervised. I've seen it in my own company and I've heard it from friends and clients in management positions across industries.
Frankly a lot of people don't have the initiative or sense of responsibility to be able to work from home and stay productive. I never had an issue when we were remote during covid and I wish we'd go back to at least a hybrid but it is what it is.
This comes down to task management and evaluating performance based on it. If someone is failing to deliver, you document, put a remediation plan in place and if that doesn't work you have to be willing to terminate employment.
Most of these people though are the same ones creating workplace disruption when they are present in person which drags down the effectiveness of those around them.
At least in an isolated workplace that part is mitigated while you work through the steps to get rid of someone.
Exactly. You set expectations and then monitor delivery to those expectations.
Good leaders know that it's not about how busy someone is, or effort, or attendance. It's about results. And if you define what results are expected well (I.e. specific, measurable, achievable, relevant and time-bound) and clearly communicate them, it doesn't matter where the employee works, or where the boss is.
And bad leaders care more about how you get things done rather than what actually gets done. Long story short, I got screwed in reviews this year because my manager cares more about appeasing everyone else rather than supporting her own staff, and despite being told in April I needed to change the culture of 2 teams this year, which I did while not sacrificing productivity and quality, I never got her support when that change ruffled feathers in those teams. Absolute infuriating situation that has me going into next year looking to find another job.
I don't disagree with you in principle. And there are definitely functions that can be performed remotely. But if you're banking on some new era of remote freedom and you're not one of the truly elite who can demand concessions without worry of repercussions or being replaced... Well... fair winds and following seas my friend.
Because eventually, either your job will be automated/downsized, or there will be someone that can do your job who's willing and able to show up in person. So if you're in any kind of competitive office or career field, they will take your job or be promoted ahead of you.
Again, unless you're a unicorn... or self employed.
Besides, once you get past the technician part of your career, social skills matter a whole lot more than technical skills. And that's an in-person game.
I'll address this first. Social skills do not have to be an in person game to be effective. It does take more skill when communicating via phone, text, email or IM, but it can still be effective.
Secondly, companies that understand how to utilize flexible work arrangements effectively, have a competitive advantage in the labor market.
Third, remote work doesn't mean you never meet in person. There will be times when teams need to collaborate in person, but that should be done when needed, not every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday.
Look at senior level management. They typically have offices (more for clout, than anything) but due to the demands of their job, they probably spend very little time in them. Why are they effective? Because they typically have well defined measurables and higher ups who know how to hold them accountable to them. Good people leaders at all levels understand that and embrace it.
Again, not disagreeing with any of this. I spend many an hour communicating and working remotely. Hybrid/flexible work arrangements are here to stay. Full stop. I'm simply addressing the idea of permanent telework, the kind where you never have to be in person and have no centralized office involvement. I think many folks who have built their lives around this will be disappointed as new normals are established. For example, if your job can be done from anywhere with an internet connection it sounds to me like something that can be done in India for a quarter of the price of an American. Or worse, it sounds like something that can be managed using technology.
It is a distinct possibility regarding permanent telework.
Exactly. Which means most people with career ambitions still need to be able to commute into or among city centers and out to geographically dispersed job sites. Which means easy access to transportation and other urban infrastructure is still very desirable. All of which means living in or near large metro areas is still professionally advantageous for most. Because, though it may have changed, the necessity of commuting for work will be the norm/expectation for the vast majority of gainfully employed people.
Few things in life are binary choices. Some people perform and work flawlessly at home, some must be in an office to focus. Some people prefer commuting for 2 hours for a job they love. Some people are better set up for success living a block from the office in a big city. The bottom line is that you have to find out what makes your staff effective and productive and foster that environment. Communication, accountability, common vision and goals are the key. Even if they work on the moon or in the office.
This sounds like you work in management consulting.
Deloitte? PWC?
I do, but in health IT. Used to work for Booz
lol willing to bet that each of us has worked for booze at some point in our lives
Worst 7 months of my life
almost 20 years, joined immediately after my undergrad at Tech. And my reasons for leaving had nothing to do with the culture and definitely not the team I was running. Overall a very positive experience.
I feel like you guys might be missing GGC's joke about working for "booze"
Or, alternatively I am the one thinking it is a joke and he did actually work for Booz Allen Hamilton
Maybe it's like onions and parfaits. Works on layers
yeah it was a booze joke
i have never worked for a consulting firm and hope never to do so
I feel like I understand your perspectives so much better now.
Me? No, I'm in a job that can't be done remotely; I work in a SCIF. But my sister has been fully remote for over a decade and a half, and my brother is now fully remote. It's a lot more viable than people think, and those who think you have to go into an office, well, those are the ones that are going to have a hard time finding people to employ.
Regarding competitive career fields, well, it depends on which field, and the relative supply/demand of candidates. For those where it's really hard to find a good candidate to hire, those candidates know it, and are increasingly choosing remote jobs; your "in the office" employer is going to find it increasingly harder to find people to employ. For those where there are an oversupply of candidates, I can see where somebody who is willing and able to come into the office can have an advantage, but in one field that I can think meets that criterion (software developer), that's one that uniquely lends itself to working remote. My sister is has been in all levels of management in that field, and again, has been fully remote for over 15 years. My brother is in tax consulting, and they're now all remote. Both of them are in positions where the social skills matter more than the technical skills.
The point I'm trying to make is that what you think is so important to be in-person is increasingly moving to remote. Employers are recognizing this, not only because remote has become more viable, but also because many potential employees prefer remote over in office. And as your pool of quality candidates shrinks, not just by willingness to go in-office, but by geographic limitations (where you're limited by your local area, but your remote competitors are not), then it's the employers (granted, in some fields) that are going to have to adapt.
There's a movement on employers to mandate return to office policies, many of which are a form of soft downsizing. But once past that, IM(ns)HO, they're going to see that it's harder to find quality people to hire, and we'll see a movement away from RTO.
Just my $.02.
Already dealing with this on almost every hiring action. I continue to have conversations with my leadership that if we want to get people that actually know what they are doing then we have to remain competitive in the work environment we offer.
We are struggling because the Office of Personnel Management has left a huge grey area in the workforce requirements so we are losing good candidates to other government agencies let alone the private sector. Have had at least ten candidates this year turn down offers because they had other offers of full remote work while my organization is only allowing me to offer hybrid work.
It's been especially true for any of our financial management positions. They are a high demand career field and positions are hard to fill.
Financial management positions are definitely competitive and can be done remotely. But many of the big banks etc... are pushing hybrid rto for various reasons. Just like law firms. Do you think the barrier is pay or is it really the in office portion?
Another factor is that the unemployment, statistically, is as low as it's ever been which means quality candidates can be a lot choosier. How long do you expect that to last?
In terms of reasons, remote work the last year has been the biggest differential. Government slots are pretty structured pay wise.
Losing candidates to private industry has been a combination of both factors. Had some because of remote vs hybrid but also some where industry gave them same hybrid but slightly higher pay.
If I were a software developer at any level i would be much more worried about AGI (or the next best thing) drastically reducing the human contribution to my career field than about maintaining remote status. Consulting is a different story but they won't be immune either.
Yeah saw the letter. Sorry if Metro is not high on my GaS list.
Youngkin is desperate and sweaty for something to put on his resume.
He already has 'continued to royally fuck over Virginia with Omega Protein and destroying the Chesapeake Bay' on his resume.
They're just scared now that Tech has already partnered with a team that should be good for a while coming forward rather than one living off the last dying breath of a aging star 😂
The last dying breath? The team is actually winning without the norm from Ovechkin. He leads in points but its been more assists than goals. Strome having a breakout season. They are taking a page from the Kraken where everyone chips in though and they are playing defense for a change. Goalie situation is main concern as Kuemper can't stay healthy.
Last I checked the Caps were even point wise with Carolina with three less games played.
Canes starting goalie might have his career ended by blood clotting issues and their top winger is out for a while after taking a cheap cross check that messed up his kidneys or ribs last week. But the core is still young and good and should rebound nicely going forward, despite the mess this year is becoming
Andersen never stays healthy. Even when he did play early he wasn't good. Your other two goalies still managed to do worse than Andersen with both under 90SV% and allowing 3 or more goals a game. Part of that though is how aggressive Carolina is in terms of attacking hockey. They get caught in odd man rushes by overcommitting leaving your goalies on an island. Losing Svech definitely hurts you but Aho and Teravainen counter that pretty well. Staal and Necas line wise are dreadful in terms of +/-. Deangelo isn't helping either on D.
Caps dealing with Backstrom career being over and Pacioretty still hasn't seen the ice but is getting close. Kuemper has been pretty bad even when healthy enough to play. Lindgren honestly should be the starter with Shepard as the second but we shall see. Kuemper on the big contract so that may become an issue.
As much as I miss the high flying offense the Caps used to play the new coach seems to have them playing good playoff style defensive hockey and they are winning the close games.
Caps
Staal and Burns look over the hill. They're so slow out there that the game has passed them by. Necas is a trainwreck whenever he's on the ice. He tries to hero-puck through the entire defense every time he has the puck on his stick and its an automatic turnover.
The good news is that our important pieces are locked up long term and all the other contracts expire over the next 2 or 3 years. Which sounds like it should be bad, but it really isn't. And as good as our defense has been, we arguably have 2 of the top defensive prospects in the league looking to come up in the next couple years, so we should be set long term.
Good luck with that. We thought the same thing last year and then he played like 20 mins and was out the rest of the year. You talk about Freddie being hurt often, but Patches literally cannot stay healthy. His career is basically over.
Yeah not even sure where the staff will slot Pacioretty in line wise. They only signed him to a 1 year,$2M show me contract so if it doesn't work out he is out the door. Hershey is loaded with talent just waiting for their turn which is closer than ever.
Goal tending they just locked up Clay Stevenson to a new three year deal. Stevenson is 9-4-0 with a 1.70 goals-against average, a .934 save percentage and a league-leading four shutouts in 13 games this year and was a major component in their AHL run.
Backstrom replacement next season will likely be Mike Sgarbossa if they don't sign a free agent. He has been about a point per game guy for last two years. They also have three or four guys that rotate on and off the Caps roster already.
As a DC resident I would be very sad to see the Caps / Wiz move. I understand money talks, and the proposed Monumental Sports complex has the potential to bring in a ton of $ for Ted. However, he's basically alienating his DC and MD fans with this move. Travel to / from the new location is SIGNIFICANTLY worse on three levels (auto, transit, and walkability).
Regardless, I'm holding out hope that the Del Ray locals stop this in its tracks (a la the proposed Potomac Yard Redskins Stadium in the 90s). As yak said above, the VA offer is years away from becoming a reality, whereas the DC counter has full-fledged support and approval and could be pushed through as early as February 2024.
This is a colossally stupid blunder by Leonsis if this goes through. Accessibility to the arena being the number 1 reason.
But it's on the water, so you'll be able to park your boat at the stadium.
🤡
DC came back almost immediately with a $500M proposal to renovate Capital One. Bowser throwing around last, best and final buzzwords but this is a move that could see her out of office. I imagine if they really want to keep the teams they will get closer to the $600M Leonsis wanted.
As for Potomac Yards, that's actually more inconvenient than Capital One for most of Virginia even. It would take me longer on the Silver Line then it does to get downtown.
The arena is 25 years old. That is nothing in terms of usefulness, etc. I don't suppose Teddy could spring for new carpet in the suites? That is what we are talking about- new video board perhaps. It's a very clean/newish looking building even today.
Monumental wants to renovate the surrounding area as well. Leonsis allegedly has said something like he hates the surrounding view out his office window.
He's also complained publicly about "loud buskers" outside his office in Chinatown too.
The idea that all this is so Teddy can get a better view that's unobstructed by the hoi polloi doesn't improve the optics.
This is kind of where I am at with our current situation in Dallas with Miriam Adelson now buying the majority stake in the Mavericks. American Airlines center is now around 23 years old but it is still a nice building. They have had some issues with the roof leaking during heavy rain (that can be fixed) but overall it is a nice building and there has been a ton of investment and buildup down there in Victory Park.
Now they are saying that Adelson has bought the old Texas Stadium site in Irving for what everyone thinks will be a new Casino/Arena (all depending on if they can get gambling in TX legalized of course).
Personally I am hoping the Stars stay at AAC, and word is they are happy with it and tbh I like going to hockey games more than NBA games anyway.
On another note, if they get gambling in TX and are able to build a casino in Dallas, it is going to absolutely FUCK the Native American Casinos on the border in Oklahoma (the Winstar and Choctaw Casino) that are both a little over an hour drive from the metroplex.
I was very impressed with AAC last year for the women's final four. I thought the whole arena was super nice and accessible.
Turner Field was barely 20 years old when the Braves moved to the Battery. Built for the 1996 Olympics, started the 1997 season there, and the Braves' first season at SunTrust/Truist Park was 2017. 20 years. The Georgia Dome was about 25 years old when the Falcons moved into Mercedes Benz.
I'm sure there's some sort of commentary about our disposable/one-use culture these days, but I just don't have the energy for that. This is just sad.
I'd like to see an artist's rendition of a winning Wizards team.
No artists are that good
That would take some voodoo magic. Wiz play ZERO defense. They have given up 130+ points in 13 of 22 games. The latest debacle was a 146-101 loss to the Sixers.
Only reason they haven't sacked the coach is to improve lottery chances.
Bring back the Bullets! They are cursed as the Wizz
The Bullets were pretty awful too.
Won a ship with Big E and Wes in 78. Bring back that Bullets team.
Phil Chenier, Kevin Grevey. Grevey had a pretty popular sports bar in the Fairfax area for many years.
We used to watch a *lot* of VT football games at Grevey's. It was awesome.
Make that 14 of 22 after blowing a 20 point lead against the Pelicans last night.
Can we use this opportunity to have a donor pay Tech enough to MERGE THE DAMN ATHLETIC AND ACADEMIC LOGOS! It makes zero sense to have two. Just like Oregon, Ohio State, Miami, Oklahoma, and Michigan among others have done use the logo everyone knows the athletic one! Seeing that stupid rounded logo at the presser and in the renderings is dumb.
Be careful what you wish for. You might get the rounded logo on the helmets.
It would be just like leadership to do the opposite of what successful mergers have done.
This is what we're going to see from almost every owner of a sports team after the new Braves stadium, and the Cubs' redevelopment of Wrigleyville. They don't want to just be team owners, they want to be real estate developers with that extra revenue source, and they'll move their teams wherever they have to (see Oakland A's).
If Virginia gives Leonsis even one cent it will be too much.
Oakland is not going to get that in Las Vegas. They barely have enough footprint for a retractable dome. There's going to be plenty of retail/restaurants/nightlife around there, but it's not going to be owned by WhatsHisFuck the Owner.
They may have gotten that in Oakland with a bit more patience (and the mayor says an offer was on the table) at the waterfront site, but that's probably out the window now.
Was in Vegas last week and stayed at Mandalay Bay. That hotel and the a joining Luxor are the official fan zone are for the Raiders. There are many sports bars, restaurants, etc. It's literally 2 major hotel resorts and all they have to offer. You don't need parking lots at vegas stadiums - tailgating is in the casino. For reference, the A's are going to be right across the street. Also, T Mobile arena for the knights is right there too. They have outdoor fan zonez now, etc. It's pretty impressive. the least of the A's worries IMO.
Right, but the whole concept that Leonsis and most owners looking to move are going for is some sort of ownership of the retail/commercial space around the stadium. The Battery is the new model, because they get a cut of all the commerce that's taking place around the stadium. The A's owner is not going to get that in Las Vegas. He *could* at the Oakland waterfront site.
Yep, and the Carolina Hurricanes just announced earlier this year that they're doing a $1 billion project to renovate PNC Arena ($350m) and at least $800m to build up a sports and entertainment district in the immediate vicinity around the arena and next to Carter-Finley Stadium. And it makes sense, they want something where people will go all year round rather than a venue that is filled maybe 90 days a year.
That arena never looked major league to me in the first place. I put it in the New Orleans and OKC categories. These arenas aren't big league buildings, IMO.
I mean it was pretty state of the art when it was built in 1999, but it wasn't much long after that when things started to shift dramatically. At this point, the whole area is very much showing its age, as there really hasn't been any noteworthy work done to it since original construction outside of a couple different scoreboards and the ribbon lights. Nowhere near enough bathrooms or concessions, the concourses are too narrow, and it makes a space where you have barely enough time to piss and get another beer before the puck is dropped for the next period.
As a season ticket member, I've been a part of a couple focus groups on their renovation plans over the last few years, and its going to be a pretty comprehensive gut job, and the finished product should bring it up to current standards with a lot of focus on different ways to experience games and events other than being at your seats. It should be a huge change for the better.
I don't know much about the district development, because they had to negotiate it with the state, as it was technically public land owned by the fairgrounds and NC State, so any leaks I've heard were mostly about whether or not it would pass and not necessarily what they would create. But I did hear right after the announcement that it'll include a bunch of office and hotel space, multiple bars, a dedicated sports book, and a 4,000 seat indoor/outdoor concert venue.
So does this mean we can have "home" games at an NBA arena for both our men's and women's basketball teams?
Honestly would enjoy an annual in season tournament with local teams. GW, Mason, Tech, Maryland, UVA, Richmond, VCU, JMU. The week after exams would be the time to do it. That's eight teams. Each team gets three games similar to Thanksgiving Feast Week tournaments.
The only problem is having teams from the same conference. I think it would have to be limited to 4 teams:
1 ACC: VT, UVA
1 A10: GW, VCU, Mason, Richmond
1 BigTen: Maryland, PSU
1 other regional: Georgetown, American, JMU, Liberty
Help me here, but in what way does this benefit VT?
I'm not seeing how having an arena near a graduate campus does anything for us.
As stated above, the potential for men's/women's basketball, hockey, perhaps even wrestling, to be played in a world-class, professional stadium would probably be a huge draw for recruits and for high revenue/marquee matchups.
But...it's not near Blacksburg. It's near our graduate campus.
Capital One Arena is only a few miles away, I'm just not sure how it being next to the Innovation Campus does anything for us.
It's about the same benefit we get from adding Stanford and SMU to the ACC. They are right down the street as well...
It helps us if there's some sort of agreement about Tech teams playing there every so often. For those family who live nearby, it's a chance to see your kid play without having to drive to Blacksburg.
Unless there is a formal agreement with Monument sports for advertising, NIL, etc. Than- nothing. Much like recruits supposedly like orange jerseys. Maybe. Never helps us land a big fish though.
The ability to tie in large industry conferences would be a plus in terms of visibility of the school if its done correctly. Having the area better developed adds to the overall environment for students and educators which could be either a positive or negative. Improvements to the transit in the area because of the development would be good but planning transit during event times becomes a challenge. The schoolhouse could also try to tie in with displays throughout the development in terms of eyes on. Problem there becomes regularly having to update so they keep people's attention.
If I were a MD resident, I'd be tempted to remind DC that both teams used to play in Maryland (for less than 25 years) before a shiny new downtown arena was built. Karma's a bitch.
Note: I am indeed not a MD resident and also agree that the current location is better for mass transit, but I am mildly amused by the outrage of the DC leadership when they were on the other end of this conversation in the mid-90s.
DC leadership would be amusing if they weren't so bad at their jobs. But MCI did nothing for Maryland, much like FedEx has done nothing for Maryland. Moving the caps and wiz to Chinatown otoh is a major reason that part of DC is no longer what it was in the 90s. And it's the reason either of those franchises have a fan base larger than a minor league baseball team.
Not disagreeing with you, but I have a personal bias in that I have a lot of fond memories of the Cap Centre and
MCI CenterVerizon CenterCapitol One Arena has always felt like they were always more concerned with keeping up ticket prices than anything else.Of course having said that, I would love nothing better than for football to move back to a new stadium on the site of RFK. FedEx Field just needs to be erased somehow.
100% agree on FedEx. And while I have serious reservations about sports franchises leveraging communities for subsidies, I am optimistic the WFT will return to the RFK site.
Also, why am I remembering it as the MCI center and not just the Cap Center?
The Cap Centre was renamed US Air Arena and then American Airlines Arena. What is now Capital One Arena originally opened as the MCI Center. Hard as hell to keep track, so I always called the Landover site the Cap Centre and still call the downtown site the MCI Center (or "the phone booth").
Also now known as "The Wallet"
The problem with RFK is its owned by the federal government who has allowed DC some flexibility in managing the site but any owner in sports wants to own the property, especially the parking. I don't see that happening with RFK.
Fed Ex- like everything near him- issue of course was Danny Boy. Jack Kent Cooke built the Forum in LA- still open and a major arena for shows etc. He knows what he is doing. He contracted HOK to design and build Fed Ex- HOK was the premier stadium designer at the time. The design was for 70K seats and the field was to be big enough to host international soccer games. When it opened the press box was the best in the NFL- low and right on the 50- announcers loved it. There were no seats right by the benches, under columns or covering the score board. Snyder changed all of that out of greed. Instead of improving the parking, traffic flow, adding escalators, better food, he simply crammed extra seats in areas that weren't designed. And it snowballed from there. Too many bad seats, forcing season tix waiting list people to buy them first, etc, etc, etc. Had he left the original design and invested in the right areas, it would be fine. Ironically he paid to remove THOUSANDS of seats the past several years. LOL. So it looks like a debacle eye sore. I wont mention its the worst actual field in the NFL- players hate it. Rumor has it Dan wanted it to be so bad, the NFL would step in and broker a stadium deal for him. Ooops.
Casual Caps fan here and couldn't care less about the Wiz / NBA. Meh. It doesn't move the needle for me one way or the other. My gf of nearly two years (holy shit) lives in DuPont and I can say from a safety perspective, DC does not feel safe. I don't think you could pay me to go to Chinatown to a game these days. I already have my head on a swivel constantly in her neck of the woods, which is about as nice as it gets in DC. Hell, Navy Yard and the area around Nats Park seems sketchy now. From a safety perspective, I have to imagine Potomac Yards would be much safer to visit games.
Personally I blame the DC gubmint. They have got to get the crime under control. They make enough damn money off of the traffic cameras, one would think they could pay enough to keep Leonsis happy and at least keep the teams in DC and have that anchor to hold whatever is left of that area of the city together. Businesses are suffering and it feels like it's the 90s again. I totally see why Leonsis wants out.
Also Youngkin is a scumbag. Like most politicians, he only see dollar signs. Of course he wants this on his resume.
I won't address the last items to not go against CGs, but with the amount of Carjackings at Pentagon City and such, I don't think that Potomac Yards will be much safer than anything that comes with the panhandlers/buskers (word I learned today about what it meant) outside of Cap one. I can't say that I've ever felt unsafe around Cap One going to a ton of Caps games (even as a NYR fan), but we also drive in and park at one of the garages in the area. Nats Park seems very hit and miss and is much less centralized as compared to WMATA stops. Joke as much as I do, but realistically Nats park is off of the green line, which is enough said for most NoVA and area residents. I think there's a real path forward at the arena that is perfectly fine, but if Leonsis wants to own EVERYTHING in the surrounding area like it seems with what he'll want to do in Potomac Yards, then there's nothing to stop this upcoming massive headache for anyone within the Alexandria/Arlington/Fairfax/Falls Church area.
Is that STGFW?
(Safe To Google From Work)
lol
Yes, literally just street musicians playing for donations
but with the amount of Carjackings at Pentagon City and such, I don't think that Potomac Yards will be much safer than anything that comes with the panhandlers/buskers (word I learned today about what it meant) outside of Cap one.
I hadn't heard about many carjackings there as well. Good to know and yes, definitely a concern.
Panhandlers go to where people will give them money. Inner cities with more densely placed stop lights, intersections, etc. They want money. They don't panhandle in open suburbs with no traffic. They also work on volume- higher in the inner city. So yeah, anywhere 20K people gather to spend disposable income is going to be a haven for panhandlers. You could put it in beverly hills. The new arena will have to deal with all of that bullshit too.
Not to mention nowadays when you tell them you don't have cash they whip out a new iphone with the square attachment and try to get you to swipe your card.
You must be newer to the DC area because it's night and day on how much nicer it is in the navy yard area compared to when I first got here (2010).
Oh yeah, around Nats Park is nice now
I am not new to the DC area. I'm referring to the amount crime of when it was first built, versus now. I didn't feel like I used to have my head on a swivel when I went to a Nats game. Now, I do.
My brother used to live in that area about a decade ago. It was definitely very spotty then. For every revitalized street, the next street was section 8 (standard DC street zoning...). Definitely needed to maintain awareness back then too, but I haven't been back in awhile, so maybe it is worse.
Statistically speaking, there is more crime in DC than in say 2019. But aside from carjacking which has exploded and is perpetrated by just as many folks from VA and MD as from DC, it's not noticeably worse. And it's nowhere near what it was in the 90s or earlier. And crime statistics aren't something people perceive as they're walking to a sports event. Best case scenario is people are perceiving and reacting to the fact that, thanks to pandemic era trends, there are a lot more vacant commercial spaces and somewhat less consumer and office activity and foot traffic. Additionally, and like every major city in America post-pandemic, the homeless population has exploded which is impossible to ignore given that many of them are there to ask for money. But there are also people who are noticing and reacting to the presence of people who "aren't like them," and they seem to jump at every opportunity to talk about crime in the city.
Yea. This makes sense.
Homelessness is a real problem. I moved to live into the city of LA in 2022. It was the worst place I ever lived due to the homelessness (and also the general crappiness of LA, but mostly the homelessness).
I work from home and was on a zoom call one day when a homeless man entered my house through my back entrance (had to walk around the house). Unbeknownst to me, he entered into my bedroom and locked the door. After my zoom meeting, I noticed something was up, found the man in the room, shoes off trying to figure out how to get the TV work.
The place I rented was a back house and thus the main entrance was via the back alley. I had multiple different homeless camps set up in the alley. Waking up to the smell of human feces on a daily basis is f'ing terrible. Another homeless man broke the gate to the back yard because he thought I stole his trash. And the LAPD couldn't do sh*t about any of it due to the city ordinances and their lack of timeliness to respond to issues.
Moved away from there as soon as my lease was up.
If anyone wants to live in LA, move into a gated complex or up on a hilly area. The homeless do not go up on hills.
I was in LA today as I have a new project up in North Hollywood... let's just say that it is worse than you can imagine up there. I mean... wow. The people who are able are leaving this state in droves... the wife and I are joining the exodus next summer. It was a good run though!
I hear you. I'm in OC now and all my LA problems are gone. But, I'm looking at Las Vegas housing prices and wondering ytf am I spending so much money for nice weather.
LOL- highest taxes in the country and you have to deal with people breaking into your room to try to watch TV.
I haven't been to a Nats game in a while but was at a Christmas party this weekend and met a fella who goes to Nats game on a regular basis. He acknowledged that it was once nice when revitalized but today he described the area as sketch and sus. He's a bit younger than me so he's hip on the lingo. He did say he keeps his head on a swivel.
I would encourage you to visit the ballpark yourself before accepting this person's interpretation. I, too, live in the city and go to plenty of Nats games. The area is neither sketch nor sus. Serendipitously, I was there on Saturday for my company Christmas party at Gatsby on Half Street. Between all the folks going into Nats Park for the Enchant Christmas shindig (light maze and ice rink on the field itself) and the people eating / drinking at the surrounding restaurants, all my coworkers driving into the city had a hell of a time battling traffic and finding parking.
Having said all of the above, I will 100% acknowledge that crime is up in DC and as a Washingtonian it sucks to see. I typed up a whole diatribe breaking down why (in extremely oversimplified terms) but it felt too political. I'll just say that since DC is not a state we cannot fully govern ourselves, this makes prosecuting crime harder given a couple additional hurdles compared to our neighbors.
Mods please feel free to edit / delete if I'm still too political... apologies for getting on my soapbox.
The area is fine. But like everything in DC proper, the customer service at Nats park sucks. And the food is terrible for a "modern" ballpark too.
Customer service in DC has always been a gripe of mine. It can be hit or miss at Nats for sure. But the food is on par with most other parks I've been to. So where have you been that you were impressed with the food? And what kind of food was it? Ballpark food is almost always overpriced and underwhelming since by necessity it's assembly line commercial kitchen production.
Better food? Literally every park I have been to recently. Seattle- no brainer, Chase field in PHX- they have things like short rib taco's, specialty sandwiches' each series etc. The food at Camden Yards is light years better too. Yes most ballparks have Aramark stands - dogs, chicken fingers, etc. But most stadiums also have a ton of special food now.
Hmmm... Nats has all of that specialty stuff too. Including fancy fusion tacos. Haven't been to Phoenix or Safeco but go to Camden Yards frequently. Have also been to Oracle, Yankees Stadium, Jacob's Field, and several others. I haven't experienced much of a difference in the food quality. Looks like Safeco might be an outlier though.
Dodger stadium probably has the worst food at any ballpark I've been too. Not sure how they can get away with "dodger dogs" as their food specialty.
Spot on. It's a 200 year old city with its own history and unique constraints. And unlike many other (mostly sub-urban) places in America, society's inconvenient realities aren't sequestered into easily avoidable pockets of real estate. Which, bringing things full circle, is exactly what Alexandria is signing itself up for with this Monumental development.
I'm just having a hard time seeing Monumental's proposal going anywhere. So many things were thrown on the wall and none of it was vetted.
I think you're hitting some key points for sure. And I frankly hope you're right because the sad truth is, given its current circumstances, DC probably needs the Caps and Wiz much more than Alexandria.
Throw in the need to increase the size of both the Alexandria police and emergency services to support the increase in traffic.
I grew up in PG County. Know DC well. At this moment, I have zero interest in going into DC. But, it's also due to the fact that I grew up here and "been there, done that" is a factor too.
Is it the brutal traffic ? insane parking situation most places? Red light and speed camera's on literally every street? Said rising crime? I have no idea why someone wouldn't want to go into DC for the hell of it.
We'd prefer none of you drive into the city and instead take public transportation. And if congress didn't control DC, we'd toll every non-resident vehicle that enters the city (like most other major metros) which would help pay to address most of the other things visitors like to complain about. A few more parking garages would be helpful tho.
And it's funny the traffic cams are a complaint given that the vast majority of traffic related fatalities in the city are caused by non residents. And since Virginia and Maryland refuse to allow reciprocity with DC, the district doesn't have much recourse when violators don't pay.
I was going to say... Virginians and Marylanders don't even pay their traffic fines so the cameras only hurt us DC residents.
It can be particularly irksome when folks from the burbs complain about the city since much of what they complain about is stuff their representatives have prevented DC from addressing.
As a former Alexandrian (born in DC but grew up in Alexandria), I am especially obnoxious with my disdain for suburbanites.
I think it's safe to say that MD drivers think VA drivers are the worst and vice versa. Having lived and driven in both MD and VA for years, I have to say MD drivers are worse. BUT, on any given day, if I see a bad driver, look closely and see DC plates, I'm like, "Oh Boy....here we go".
New york city drivers literally will bump into your bumper and not stop/miss a beat etc. It's accepted there. So those are the worst drivers in the country
I've driven in Manhattan once.................once
Drove thru times square on a Sunday morning once. Nobody around. It was bizarre. Surreal.
A friend and I were visiting and their feet were hurting so we took a pedicab ride; the ride from hell as we were 6-8 inches from cars and trucks weaving between lanes; it was $7 a minute so entire ride from Macys to Rockefeller center to port authority was 24 minutes or $168.
They also don't acknowledge the existence of a blind spot. Almost found that out the hard way several times on a motorcycle last summer.
I've spent pretty much my entire life avoiding the beltway, but I will tell you that the ranking of worst drivers on Rte. 7 between Leesburg and Reston is:
1. Maryland plates
2a. Anyone in a Tesla
2b. Virginia "Don't Tread on Me" plates
3. West Virginia plates
4. Virginia plates
5. Anyone with a Hokies decal or license plate can do whatever they want, I don't care
This is the complete list. LOL!!! As Beamer would say, "Those WV plates will get after ya".
Legislation has been introduced:
https://richmond.com/news/state-regional/government-politics/alexandria-...
I think this is it since article is paywalled:
https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?241+ful+HB1514
As expected:
Caps, Wizards would stay in D.C. under deal announced by Bowser, Leonsis
Saw something last week that said since DC provided some money in 2007, the Caps were locked in for 40 years at that arena...
I couldn't say. But lawyers would have racked up serious billables litigating that clause. End of the day, Youngkin proved to be a real dufus and cleared up any misconceptions about why he was pushed out at Carlyle Group.
DC thanks him for his service.
Lawyers
Always
Win