I'm watching on my phone on mute while my wife watches a show about a Mormon polygamist cult on Hulu. I'm also doing 2 or 3 other things at once because that's what I do.
Washington looks outmatched and their run fits are WOOF!
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Haha. I thought about that when I typed it, but this show is about a legit cult that "blood atoned" anybody that they didn't like or that disagreed with them. This was one of those groups that was probably similar to what Chachi helped take down. Real bad stuff.
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Why does Michigan keep passing on 3rd and 4th and short? This game would already be over if they'd just keep running duo
EDIT: I'm not normally a run the damn ball person, but come on
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Washington with no viable running back and Pennix with a sore ankle is neutering this offense. If they tie this drive, and the defense keeps stuffing Michigans run game and forcing McCarthy to throw, it's a ball game. Seems like they're only in it by sheer force of will.
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Mich with 3 former VT verbals on the Roster..
Sainristil who is a major contributor
Alex Orji who is backup QB
And strangest of all Cam Goode who lasted less than 2 weeks under Fuente and is now about to win the CFP.
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Corum was from Faquier but played at St Frances in MD. There are differing opinions on how "close" he was to coming to VT. I don't believe he was ever going anywhere but Mich..his HS coach was Biff Poggi who turned his pipeline to Michigan into a coaching job there (a common thing with Harbaugh). Poggi knew where his bread was being buttered and Corum was always gonna be in Ann Arbor.
The conditioning issue was with Goode. Who got released from his Scholly literally within 2-3 weeks of arrival. While I would agree that having a bad attitude on the team can spread, the fact that Fuente decided so quick that there was zero hope of him getting Goode on board was a terrible omen.
If a coach can't deal with an immature and entitled 17 year-old I don't see any pathway for them to be successful in college Athletics, particularly in the "where's my Ferrari," NIL age. Goode went on to play for both UCF and Michigan and while not a star, was a contributor at both places...so clearly other staffs found a way to get him motivated.
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They probably motivated him by not making him run. I remember him going OFF on Twitter about how he wasn't a wide receiver and he didn't think he needed to be running so much.
He was all...
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Goode showed up for camp horribly out of shape. Then he decided he was too talented to have to work at getting in shape. Fu&Co decided that making the whole DL run as punishments was appropriate hoping that peer pressure and working for the good of his brothers would change his attitude. Goode still said "IDGAF." Coaches asked the student leadership of the unit (Ricky Walker) if they thought he was causing problems and apparently were told he wasn't going to change and it was pissing off other members of the line. Coaches decided he was a locker room cancer in waiting and pulled the plug. #sauces
So yeah, I'm not exonerating the coaching staff for not being able to fix the situation, but it wasn't the hair trigger people make it out to be. It could also be that Goode getting the boot did more for his attitude than anything that could have been done with his staying at tech and his future success is a reflection of that growth.
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Correct the coaches did the right thing and having to move down to UCF for a year or more was probably the slap in the fact that he needed to do better.
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Everyone on this board knows my feelings on Justin Fuente and recruiting, player development, etc. I've met him a couple of times and he could not have been nicer. Good guy, but he's a grinder and not warm, etc. Having said that, I refuse to kill him on Cam Goode. This was a kid who did not want to work, and snapped back at Hilgart soon after he got on campus. Fuente actually showed he was serious about winning by telling Goode to pack his bags. Also, keep in mind Goode landed in the G5 and he was never great at UCF- that lends creedence to Fu's decision right there. It's totally revisionist BS that the kid - on his 6th year post high school- filled a 1-year need for Michigan as a rotational big body. This is not some gotcha on Fu at all. He was right about Goode.
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My gripe with Fuente isn't so much with him cutting Goode..guy was a rotational player that was probably not going to make a huge impact on VTs fate one way or another.
It's with how public and poorly-handled it was. For a guy who offered literally nothing to the media, a lot of the dirt from the inside of the Program spilled out and reflected poorly. The Capehart situation the year before was similar in how poorly the optics came off.
I'm sure this stuff happens everywhere--kids show up out of shape, not mentally mature enough. It rarely seems to blow up on social media the way this did with guys from his H.S. team (which has been D-I producing powerhouse) pledging to never consider VT over twitter.
Was Goode too far gone to let him hang around for a semester before quietly moving on? Maybe...I certainly wasn't there to see anything first-hand, but the way it went down was definitely harmful to VT Football and certainly a sign that Fuente simply didn't get Recruiting at a P5 level.
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Of course social media laundry is never a positive thing, but that was beyond Fuente's control. Goode and his handlers took to social- nothing Fu can do about it. Fu did have a couple choices here- put up with Goode's alleged insubordination/unacceptable behavior for a semester and risk the team dynamic associated with that... or let the kid go. Some coaches like Mack Brown would have probably kept Goode around longer. Other coaches like Saban would have kicked him off the team. Again, I wasn't there but I trust my source who said the kid basically cussed out a coach and a couple staffers. So sure, perhaps give him another chance, but Fu was more old school. IIWII.
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Ahh silent verbals... such a fucking cesspool this bullshit. Find a fucking running back that wants to play at VT. They aren't unicorns. These fucking agents and handlers and HS coaches looking for a pay day. Fuck them.
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I feel sorry for the Michigan players they have won a game that is going to be taken out of the record books in a year or two when this entire season is removed from the Michigan records as a result of their coaches cheating. The players put in the effort but have been let down by the coaching staffs. Bringing Stalions to the games is just thumbing their noses at the NCAA. USC lost their championship and Heisman thanks to Reggie Bush, this removal will be at the feet of Stalion and Harbaugh.
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It was. The NCAA is too slow acting to be effective anymore. By the time they make a decision on a punishment the offenders are long gone.
In other news, I saw a basketball player has sued his college for suspending him after a rape accusation. It is going to be interesting to see how that plays out. He has stated they have judged him before the trial and suspending him from play is going to negatively affect his future earnings.
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This is like how all sorts of professors at Duke wanted the lacrosse players expelled after the accusations, then eventually find out the DA withheld DNA evidence that exonerated all of them. So it appears that professors care more about appearance than due process and the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing.
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To be fair, people are really bad about conflating rights like due process with the requirements placed on private actors. Do you have the right to free speech in the context of a private institution or company? Sort of. Do you have the right to due process? Maybe? End of the day, the limitations placed on the government do not necessarily apply to every school or company that you interact with. If a company thinks that your conduct reflects poorly on them and can fire you for credible accusations per the terms of your contract, then you don't have a wrongful termination suit, even if you are eventually proven innocent.
Sorry, I just get a little triggered when people throw around terms with very specific meanings and contexts, but try to apply them to situations that are different in key ways.
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Exactly. "Innocent until proven guilty" only applies to the legal system itself (cue Law & Order sound effect). Everyone else is free to judge the crap out of you including the press, your friends and family, and your employer/school. If you being arrested for something makes my organization look bad, I'm likely well within my rights to dismiss you. I would bet this kid signed some piece of paper he didn't even read agreeing to abide by certain behavioral guidelines.
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Anyone with a functioning brain knows that "employee handbook" is different than the criminal code of the state. It is not illegal to wear a shirt that says "Fuck the Police" in any state in America. If you wore that to my workplace however, you would be fired. As you should be. In Arizona where I live, it is legal to both smoke marijuana and drink alcohol socially. Both are not permitted at my workplace and are grounds for termination if done in the office. Anyone should see and support the difference. If I were an NFL owner, it would be against my companies policy to close fist beat women. I would fire you for that- Fuck Goodell and fuck any jury. You aren't working for me beating up your wife.
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At the risk of totally devolving this thread, you bring up the workplace. There's also a difference between doing things actually at the office and doing them at home. As far as beating women, what if a player was dating a girl who only really wanted a payday and (falsely) accused a player of hitting her in the hopes of getting a large out of court settlement?
It's kind of a different world where people think they can get a big payday in terms of taking an accusation at face value. Granted, there are plenty of pro athletes who do beat on their girlfriends/wives.
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(falsely) accused a player- that's not what I'm talking about here. And FTR- these incidences of women totally making up getting hit as their bruises are in their ER photos, police reports, etc. are rare. Do gold diggers lie? sure, but when police are called, etc it's typically legit. Overwhemingly. Also my scenario would include firing a player who does in fact beat his wife up and pays her to shut up.
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I get it, but in the context of the Duke players, where the faculty wanted to expel them, what should the players have done if they were expelled? Given that you are correct that private institutions don't have to follow the due process and innocent until proven guilty rights, what do you think should have happened to the players?
As far as no right for wrongful termination (not sure what the term would be for getting expelled), the faculty didn't want the players expelled for hiring a stripper, they wanted them expelled because they thought the players had actually raped her. And I get it, if I had a daughter at a school, I wouldn't want a rapist running free while they were investigating and then trying him waiting on the outcome. And I believe Tech has a policy where if you're arrested, you are suspended from the football team until... not sure what, charges are dropped or you're acquitted?
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Hindsight- indefinite suspension until the legal matter is resolved. Keep in mind, none of us know what the players said to coaches and Duke admins. Maybe they admitted to being at this party? maybe they said things that you didn't hear that led to the Universities decision?
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The university never did anything, it was professors saying to media they thought the players should be expelled. I think the players continued going to class, but said they were totally ostracized and almost everyone thought they were guilty so many of them I think transferred to different schools. I can't remember when it was they figured out the DA had withheld the DNA evidence, but he wound up losing his job and I think got disbarred.
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I went and looked it up, he didn't just withhold the evidence, he apparently conspired with the lab to hide the evidence and somehow make it more difficult for the players' attorneys to find. He was disbarred and apparently they looked into his other cases and found another where a guy had been convicted of murder and was granted a retrial and discovered Nifong (the DA) had withheld DNA evidence that would have exonerated him and was subsequently released from prison.
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That's pretty messed up. According to Wikipedia, he served a one-day jail sentence for contempt of court. Wow, a whole day? Wonder if he got any prison tattoos.
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He had six civil suits from the lacrosse players plus maybe some others. Nifong filed bankruptcy to get out of it. The guy fucked up major and screwed some people way harder than the consequences he faced.
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It should come as a surprise to absolutely no one that he has degrees from unc. The more I learn about unc and the twisted folks associated with that cesspool the more I hate them
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I hate them for several reasons, including having a douchebag uncle that went there, general dislike for the whole big 10 (Abigail 10) where most of the conference sucks other than the top 3-4 teams yet all sportscasters seem to think the conference across the board is better than everyone else other than the SEC, etc.
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There is no downside to cheating apparently. As it pertains to winning college football games of course.
Shit its been this way since SMU had their throat slit. The NCAA is a feckless organization whose only authority is the threat that they might hammer you, and for the past 40 years schools have been slowly realizing those are absolute empty threats, especially when it comes to football.
Oh, they stripped Louisville of their title in basketball? They still have the banner, they still recognize it internally, and they still have all the financial proceeds that came from winning it, so what did they really strip them of, exactly?
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But it's particular programs that the NCAA will look the other way for, not everyone. If VT tried anything like that, they would shut our program down. Still also think it's a travesty what they did to USC vacating their wins, a natty, and Bush's heisman over some payments to his family when the PSU situation happened and they ended up reversing course on the punishment. And UNC and Miami skate after investigations. And now Michigan. NCAA is a total joke.
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If VT tried anything like that, they would shut our program down.
Bullshit
We have enough allies on our side within the state government that the second the NCAA tried to do anything to us, we'd lawyer the hell up and get them to back off just like any other school. The NCAA is only as powerful as you allow them to be, and governments know that if they go to bat for their state schools, the NCAA has no power.
We're not the small regional school we were 40 years ago when the NCAA put us on probation. We're a major university for the state that is now partnering with a tech giant on a new campus in DC. We've absolutely become the kind of school that is protected.
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Maybe, but I'm skeptical. Take for instance UNC - their whole university system is centralized and UNC is the priority. UNC has universal political clout in the state. VT has a lot of political backing in Richmond but there are a ton of UVA grads/lawyers in very influential places in Virginia government and politics. If VT just decided to ignore the rules one day and got caught, I feel like UVA supporters would love nothing more than to hammer us. We also don't have the historical program clout like a blue blood either. Even USC had that and got hammered (but think there's real east coast bias in college sports and I think Pete Carroll was despised by most peer coaches and the NCAA for his flashy coaching style).
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I don't know, despite all the craziness with Stallions (never trust a man with a manifesto), UM is a pretty good story as far as modern cfb goes. It's a great school with a great culture and alumni base. And I for one appreciate an antidote to the SEC/ESPN strangulation of the sport I love.
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I'm not seeing the B1G as an antidote to the SEC/ESPN. They're more or less in the same club in terms of unfair benefits, rule-bending, and TV and merch deals.
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They're basically where the SEC was 15 years ago - there is always at least one, sometimes two, legitimate national title contending teams in the conference, there are always at least two other top 20 quality teams in the conference, and then several other schools that aren't that good but have recognizable brands.
Give them 15 years of "the B1G is the best" type media coverage and media payouts and you'll have schools like Rutgers out recruiting everyone that's not currently B1G or SEC.
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Living in SEC territory, I haven't met anybody nearly as obnoxious as people who go the THE Ohio State University (or THE University of Virginia). The whole Big 10 is resting its laurels on the merits of Michigan and anOSU.
And yeah, maybe the whole Danny Coale thing has left a monumental amount of stink on their program (with a half life that will carry the stink for at least a thousand years). Fuck Michigan and the horse that carried in the Wahoo.
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I'm going to drop my hottest TKP take: this isn't a tainted championship.
Connor stallions was fired, and the cheating stopped by mid season
Harbaugh served his suspension/got punished/paid his debts
Every opponent switched their signs, so the results of the cheating had stopped benefitting Michigan
Michigan still won, without any cheating, and beat the best 4 teams on their schedule without an illegal sign stealing
I wish UW won, but pennix and his receivers just had an off day. I continue to think that this scandal is the funniest thing to happen in college football since Bobby petrino got in a 'motorcycle accident.'
Edited lol
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Sorry, you've all clearly forgotten about Texas Longhorns special teams coach Jeff Banks, who got in trouble when his stripper girlfriend Pole Assassin's pet monkey bit a kid.
Anyways, my point stands - the Michigan scandal was sooo much fun to watch unfold. It was so ridiculous. It was victimless. It was PEAK college football.
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Did Justin Fuente send live scouts employed by him to his future opponents games to film their signals and alignments? Did Pry do that? If not, they are the victims trying to compete with teams that did. And if live scouting offers no advantage - like steroids (lmfao) then why do it?
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I think we should get all the sign steal information through FOIA. The university paid for the trips so that information should be owned by the university.
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I mean, they beat the 4 hardest teams on their schedule without any live scouting, so one could argue that it didn't have that significant of an advantage.
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Not only could they have been scouting these teams in advance, but this ignores all the wins they got over teams that they did live scout. And I know - they beat everyone they played by a million, but maybe they have a few closer games without the cheating. And maybe the starters have to play longer, and maybe they get a few more injuries. Maybe the depth isn't as good because it doesn't get as many game reps.
I don't doubt that they're talented enough to win the championship legitimately, but hand-waving the cheating away with "ah, well, they weren't doing it anymore when they beat these four good teams" doesn't make a ton of sense.
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I don't know if you will ever be able to convince me of the following:
The decision to begin cheating got Harbaugh off the hot seat when he starting winning more 2-3 years ago.
The recruiting got better because he was winning more.
The better the players from recruiting the better the team did. As a result they might not have needed to cheat as much but they didn't stop to keep their competitive advantage for as long as they could.
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To be fair, in the gif above he's not the cheater that got called out. He's the one calling out.
He was scummy, so maybe he's Penn State in this instance? Or anOSU?
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Agreed on three of the four. Harbaugh has not been punished by the NCAA over either investigation yet. They self imposed a three game suspension for something that is normally a 4-6 game suspension. But as that would mean he would have to skip conference games, they cut their self imposed suspension short.
As for the other more serious investigation, the B1G suspended him 3 games not the NCAA.
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Yeah I've been wondering if all of the UoM scandal(s) weren't actually masterminded by Jim as some weird motivational tool to make his elite roster feel persecuted.
I know it's a stretch but I wouldn't put it past him.
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No way. You think CJH created Connor Stallions Vaccuum LLC? You think he stole player data from the naval academy? That story was too wild to be made up
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They did their time. They had to play their two biggest division rivals without their head coach. And they still won. They were that good. They deserved this win.
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They didn't do ANY time. They did without their executive coach on the field a few weeks. Clearly didn't affect them at all.
They should have been disqualified this year for cheating. Doesn't matter how good they were.
Otherwise, where is the integrity in this sport, when, if cheating works, you're too big to fail? So, if you cheat and you're not that good, they can throw the book at you?
What's the incentive not to cheat? When Harbaugh's conscience is the guardrail, college football has worked itself into the "no consequences" zone.
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I get that, but Knightly and Watson (great band name, but the way) both slot into that flat chestedslender, British brunette demographic whereas Ana de Armas has a corner on the mildly exotic, curvier archetype. Kind of like a Catherine Zeta Jones or Angelina Jolie.
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Agreed on all counts. Harbaugh has unequivocally shown that cheating should be encouraged.
Here's the playbook:
Cheat for a while until you're on the verge of getting caught or get caught.
Create secret monetary windfall for the "fall guy"
Self report and/or inflict self punishment thats serious enough for ESPN to report on, but not enough to actually matter
Create a backup structure that allows you to function normally without "punished" people present
Win lots of games
Win Natty
Rinse and repeat
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And if it were any "lesser" program, they'd still be doing their time.
This is Brady/LeBron/Crosby getting all the calls and no-calls, but on an institutional level. The rules don't apply to superstars and bluebloods. That's always royally pissed me off, too.
They're good, sure. But I categorically disagree that they did their time and that they deserved it.
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The rules don't apply to superstars and bluebloods.
This has always been true about everything in the world for the entirety of human history. And it always will be until the end of the universe. That may be the truest thing anyone has ever written in the entire span of the Human race up to now.
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Let's be realistic they were caught cheating for 2.5 years not just half of this season. Which coincidentally is when they started to get good, recruiting improved, and Harbaugh came off the hot seat. I can see the last two years wins taken off the books at a minimum when the NCAA finally rules in 3 years.
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It doesn't count if you don't beat an SEC team, per ESPN. UGA is the champion because they beat FSU by so much, while MU struggled with a wounded UW. Ask Paaawlll.
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Comments
I'm watching on my phone on mute while my wife watches a show about a Mormon polygamist cult on Hulu. I'm also doing 2 or 3 other things at once because that's what I do.
Washington looks outmatched and their run fits are WOOF!
Gobble, Mozart said a bad word!
/s
Haha. I thought about that when I typed it, but this show is about a legit cult that "blood atoned" anybody that they didn't like or that disagreed with them. This was one of those groups that was probably similar to what Chachi helped take down. Real bad stuff.
We watched that cult documentary too, it was pretty interesting.
1+ quarter in to the game and I'm providing the 2nd comment in the thread???
Now for something relevant. UW is literally going to get run off the field if they can't fix their run defense.
....the thread was started with about 12 min to go in the 2Q.
I figured it made more sense to have its own thread instead of comments being buried here and there
Tx2vt sighting
Hopefully harbaugh moves on to the nfl.
Why does Michigan keep passing on 3rd and 4th and short? This game would already be over if they'd just keep running duo
EDIT: I'm not normally a run the damn ball person, but come on
Washington runs the most fascinating spread west coast offense. Short passes all day long and you just can't seem to stop it.
Hate the Johnson kid from Washington isn't 100%. Seems like their offense would be much more capable if he had his usual burst and strength.
Idk how Washington managed it, but we got ourselves a ballgame
Would be tied right now if they would have connected on that 4th down
I can't figure out if Pennix overthrew it or Odunze cut off his route.
Seemed to me he either turned the wrong way or the ball was thrown to the wrong side. Didn't look like an over throw, just a miscommunication
I think Pennix threw where Odunze should've been away from the defender. Odunze messed it up.
I'm going to laugh so hard if they rule this not a catch.
Why does every Washington play look like it's happening in slow motion?
Washington with no viable running back and Pennix with a sore ankle is neutering this offense. If they tie this drive, and the defense keeps stuffing Michigans run game and forcing McCarthy to throw, it's a ball game. Seems like they're only in it by sheer force of will.
Not just Penix's ankle, but his ribs definitely were affecting him by the end of the game - probably explains some more of his lack of accuracy
Mich with 3 former VT verbals on the Roster..
Sainristil who is a major contributor
Alex Orji who is backup QB
And strangest of all Cam Goode who lasted less than 2 weeks under Fuente and is now about to win the CFP.
Not to mention Corum who had VT as his runner up
From Fauquier County. Fu said he was too slow
I thought it was because he thought he was better than doing conditioning drills with the rest of the team. If that is the case, Fu was right.
Corum was from Faquier but played at St Frances in MD. There are differing opinions on how "close" he was to coming to VT. I don't believe he was ever going anywhere but Mich..his HS coach was Biff Poggi who turned his pipeline to Michigan into a coaching job there (a common thing with Harbaugh). Poggi knew where his bread was being buttered and Corum was always gonna be in Ann Arbor.
The conditioning issue was with Goode. Who got released from his Scholly literally within 2-3 weeks of arrival. While I would agree that having a bad attitude on the team can spread, the fact that Fuente decided so quick that there was zero hope of him getting Goode on board was a terrible omen.
If a coach can't deal with an immature and entitled 17 year-old I don't see any pathway for them to be successful in college Athletics, particularly in the "where's my Ferrari," NIL age. Goode went on to play for both UCF and Michigan and while not a star, was a contributor at both places...so clearly other staffs found a way to get him motivated.
They probably motivated him by not making him run. I remember him going OFF on Twitter about how he wasn't a wide receiver and he didn't think he needed to be running so much.
He was all...
Goode showed up for camp horribly out of shape. Then he decided he was too talented to have to work at getting in shape. Fu&Co decided that making the whole DL run as punishments was appropriate hoping that peer pressure and working for the good of his brothers would change his attitude. Goode still said "IDGAF." Coaches asked the student leadership of the unit (Ricky Walker) if they thought he was causing problems and apparently were told he wasn't going to change and it was pissing off other members of the line. Coaches decided he was a locker room cancer in waiting and pulled the plug. #sauces
So yeah, I'm not exonerating the coaching staff for not being able to fix the situation, but it wasn't the hair trigger people make it out to be. It could also be that Goode getting the boot did more for his attitude than anything that could have been done with his staying at tech and his future success is a reflection of that growth.
That actually sounds like a reasonable, thought out decision.
Correct the coaches did the right thing and having to move down to UCF for a year or more was probably the slap in the fact that he needed to do better.
he was at UCF for 3 years
Everyone on this board knows my feelings on Justin Fuente and recruiting, player development, etc. I've met him a couple of times and he could not have been nicer. Good guy, but he's a grinder and not warm, etc. Having said that, I refuse to kill him on Cam Goode. This was a kid who did not want to work, and snapped back at Hilgart soon after he got on campus. Fuente actually showed he was serious about winning by telling Goode to pack his bags. Also, keep in mind Goode landed in the G5 and he was never great at UCF- that lends creedence to Fu's decision right there. It's totally revisionist BS that the kid - on his 6th year post high school- filled a 1-year need for Michigan as a rotational big body. This is not some gotcha on Fu at all. He was right about Goode.
My gripe with Fuente isn't so much with him cutting Goode..guy was a rotational player that was probably not going to make a huge impact on VTs fate one way or another.
It's with how public and poorly-handled it was. For a guy who offered literally nothing to the media, a lot of the dirt from the inside of the Program spilled out and reflected poorly. The Capehart situation the year before was similar in how poorly the optics came off.
I'm sure this stuff happens everywhere--kids show up out of shape, not mentally mature enough. It rarely seems to blow up on social media the way this did with guys from his H.S. team (which has been D-I producing powerhouse) pledging to never consider VT over twitter.
Was Goode too far gone to let him hang around for a semester before quietly moving on? Maybe...I certainly wasn't there to see anything first-hand, but the way it went down was definitely harmful to VT Football and certainly a sign that Fuente simply didn't get Recruiting at a P5 level.
Of course social media laundry is never a positive thing, but that was beyond Fuente's control. Goode and his handlers took to social- nothing Fu can do about it. Fu did have a couple choices here- put up with Goode's alleged insubordination/unacceptable behavior for a semester and risk the team dynamic associated with that... or let the kid go. Some coaches like Mack Brown would have probably kept Goode around longer. Other coaches like Saban would have kicked him off the team. Again, I wasn't there but I trust my source who said the kid basically cussed out a coach and a couple staffers. So sure, perhaps give him another chance, but Fu was more old school. IIWII.
Chris Coleman claims that Corum had an unofficial silent verbal to VT before the St Frances staff took the seniors on a tour of Big 10 schools.
Ahh silent verbals... such a fucking cesspool this bullshit. Find a fucking running back that wants to play at VT. They aren't unicorns. These fucking agents and handlers and HS coaches looking for a pay day. Fuck them.
This statement captures peak Fuente
Yeah but, who is winning the TOP?
Any bets Harbaugh leaves Michigan?
Oh for sure. He's about to Pete Carroll it.
Well, my gf is the most famous UM grad so she's happy. My sister lives in Ann Arbor.
Danny Coale caught the ball.
Not SEC wins the CFP championship!
2 members of the new Power 2 playing each other and in a shocker, the one that will provide more money to the NCAA won.
This is the true victory. Go Blue!
Also it was a catch.
I feel sorry for the Michigan players they have won a game that is going to be taken out of the record books in a year or two when this entire season is removed from the Michigan records as a result of their coaches cheating. The players put in the effort but have been let down by the coaching staffs. Bringing Stalions to the games is just thumbing their noses at the NCAA. USC lost their championship and Heisman thanks to Reggie Bush, this removal will be at the feet of Stalion and Harbaugh.
Bless your heart, you actually believe this
I read it as TIC
It was. The NCAA is too slow acting to be effective anymore. By the time they make a decision on a punishment the offenders are long gone.
In other news, I saw a basketball player has sued his college for suspending him after a rape accusation. It is going to be interesting to see how that plays out. He has stated they have judged him before the trial and suspending him from play is going to negatively affect his future earnings.
This is like how all sorts of professors at Duke wanted the lacrosse players expelled after the accusations, then eventually find out the DA withheld DNA evidence that exonerated all of them. So it appears that professors care more about appearance than due process and the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing.
To be fair, people are really bad about conflating rights like due process with the requirements placed on private actors. Do you have the right to free speech in the context of a private institution or company? Sort of. Do you have the right to due process? Maybe? End of the day, the limitations placed on the government do not necessarily apply to every school or company that you interact with. If a company thinks that your conduct reflects poorly on them and can fire you for credible accusations per the terms of your contract, then you don't have a wrongful termination suit, even if you are eventually proven innocent.
Sorry, I just get a little triggered when people throw around terms with very specific meanings and contexts, but try to apply them to situations that are different in key ways.
Exactly. "Innocent until proven guilty" only applies to the legal system itself (cue Law & Order sound effect). Everyone else is free to judge the crap out of you including the press, your friends and family, and your employer/school. If you being arrested for something makes my organization look bad, I'm likely well within my rights to dismiss you. I would bet this kid signed some piece of paper he didn't even read agreeing to abide by certain behavioral guidelines.
Anyone with a functioning brain knows that "employee handbook" is different than the criminal code of the state. It is not illegal to wear a shirt that says "Fuck the Police" in any state in America. If you wore that to my workplace however, you would be fired. As you should be. In Arizona where I live, it is legal to both smoke marijuana and drink alcohol socially. Both are not permitted at my workplace and are grounds for termination if done in the office. Anyone should see and support the difference. If I were an NFL owner, it would be against my companies policy to close fist beat women. I would fire you for that- Fuck Goodell and fuck any jury. You aren't working for me beating up your wife.
At the risk of totally devolving this thread, you bring up the workplace. There's also a difference between doing things actually at the office and doing them at home. As far as beating women, what if a player was dating a girl who only really wanted a payday and (falsely) accused a player of hitting her in the hopes of getting a large out of court settlement?
It's kind of a different world where people think they can get a big payday in terms of taking an accusation at face value. Granted, there are plenty of pro athletes who do beat on their girlfriends/wives.
(falsely) accused a player- that's not what I'm talking about here. And FTR- these incidences of women totally making up getting hit as their bruises are in their ER photos, police reports, etc. are rare. Do gold diggers lie? sure, but when police are called, etc it's typically legit. Overwhemingly. Also my scenario would include firing a player who does in fact beat his wife up and pays her to shut up.
I get it, but in the context of the Duke players, where the faculty wanted to expel them, what should the players have done if they were expelled? Given that you are correct that private institutions don't have to follow the due process and innocent until proven guilty rights, what do you think should have happened to the players?
As far as no right for wrongful termination (not sure what the term would be for getting expelled), the faculty didn't want the players expelled for hiring a stripper, they wanted them expelled because they thought the players had actually raped her. And I get it, if I had a daughter at a school, I wouldn't want a rapist running free while they were investigating and then trying him waiting on the outcome. And I believe Tech has a policy where if you're arrested, you are suspended from the football team until... not sure what, charges are dropped or you're acquitted?
Hindsight- indefinite suspension until the legal matter is resolved. Keep in mind, none of us know what the players said to coaches and Duke admins. Maybe they admitted to being at this party? maybe they said things that you didn't hear that led to the Universities decision?
The university never did anything, it was professors saying to media they thought the players should be expelled. I think the players continued going to class, but said they were totally ostracized and almost everyone thought they were guilty so many of them I think transferred to different schools. I can't remember when it was they figured out the DA had withheld the DNA evidence, but he wound up losing his job and I think got disbarred.
I certainly hope so. He's lucky he didn't go to jail. Intentionally withholding material evidence is pretty serious, I assume (not a lawyer).
I went and looked it up, he didn't just withhold the evidence, he apparently conspired with the lab to hide the evidence and somehow make it more difficult for the players' attorneys to find. He was disbarred and apparently they looked into his other cases and found another where a guy had been convicted of murder and was granted a retrial and discovered Nifong (the DA) had withheld DNA evidence that would have exonerated him and was subsequently released from prison.
That's pretty messed up. According to Wikipedia, he served a one-day jail sentence for contempt of court. Wow, a whole day? Wonder if he got any prison tattoos.
Sounds like a heck of civil lawsuit against him from the man sent to prison.
He had six civil suits from the lacrosse players plus maybe some others. Nifong filed bankruptcy to get out of it. The guy fucked up major and screwed some people way harder than the consequences he faced.
It should come as a surprise to absolutely no one that he has degrees from unc. The more I learn about unc and the twisted folks associated with that cesspool the more I hate them
There's a 30 for 30 on this called Fantastic Lies.
Worth the watch. Really showcases how human behavior can be warped on several fronts.
Nifong deserved a much harsher prison sentence than one day in jail at that time. His behavior was disgustingly desperate for a win.
Not just post-collegiate earnings, but NIL. This will be an interesting case to follow.
Hokies going to the playoffs next year, change my mind
We ain't cheating nearly hard enough
"First Legitimate National Champion" has a nice ring to it.
That we know of... maybe Pry is just really good at it.
Wolverines suck.
I will never give those cheaters props as long as Harbaugh is there.
It was a catch.
I hate them for several reasons, including having a douchebag uncle that went there, general dislike for the whole big 10 (Abigail 10) where most of the conference sucks other than the top 3-4 teams yet all sportscasters seem to think the conference across the board is better than everyone else other than the SEC, etc.
Washington won ToP.
Womp womp.
Cheaters win again.
Imagine that. The punishment has already been dealt and they are polishing the trophy.
There is no downside to cheating apparently. As it pertains to winning college football games of course.
The punishment from the two NCAA investigations haven't been assigned yet.
They're really gonna let Central Michigan have it!
Too high profile. EMU is in trouble though.
"We feel that just knowing they could do better is probably punishment enough."
- The NCAA, probably
Shit its been this way since SMU had their throat slit. The NCAA is a feckless organization whose only authority is the threat that they might hammer you, and for the past 40 years schools have been slowly realizing those are absolute empty threats, especially when it comes to football.
Oh, they stripped Louisville of their title in basketball? They still have the banner, they still recognize it internally, and they still have all the financial proceeds that came from winning it, so what did they really strip them of, exactly?
But it's particular programs that the NCAA will look the other way for, not everyone. If VT tried anything like that, they would shut our program down. Still also think it's a travesty what they did to USC vacating their wins, a natty, and Bush's heisman over some payments to his family when the PSU situation happened and they ended up reversing course on the punishment. And UNC and Miami skate after investigations. And now Michigan. NCAA is a total joke.
Bullshit
We have enough allies on our side within the state government that the second the NCAA tried to do anything to us, we'd lawyer the hell up and get them to back off just like any other school. The NCAA is only as powerful as you allow them to be, and governments know that if they go to bat for their state schools, the NCAA has no power.
We're not the small regional school we were 40 years ago when the NCAA put us on probation. We're a major university for the state that is now partnering with a tech giant on a new campus in DC. We've absolutely become the kind of school that is protected.
So what you're saying is that we're going to win the national championship, right?
Maybe, but I'm skeptical. Take for instance UNC - their whole university system is centralized and UNC is the priority. UNC has universal political clout in the state. VT has a lot of political backing in Richmond but there are a ton of UVA grads/lawyers in very influential places in Virginia government and politics. If VT just decided to ignore the rules one day and got caught, I feel like UVA supporters would love nothing more than to hammer us. We also don't have the historical program clout like a blue blood either. Even USC had that and got hammered (but think there's real east coast bias in college sports and I think Pete Carroll was despised by most peer coaches and the NCAA for his flashy coaching style).
They got an asterisk on their Wikipedia page is about all I can see.
Well, that's really got to sting.
I don't know, despite all the craziness with Stallions (never trust a man with a manifesto), UM is a pretty good story as far as modern cfb goes. It's a great school with a great culture and alumni base. And I for one appreciate an antidote to the SEC/ESPN strangulation of the sport I love.
I'm not seeing the B1G as an antidote to the SEC/ESPN. They're more or less in the same club in terms of unfair benefits, rule-bending, and TV and merch deals.
They're basically where the SEC was 15 years ago - there is always at least one, sometimes two, legitimate national title contending teams in the conference, there are always at least two other top 20 quality teams in the conference, and then several other schools that aren't that good but have recognizable brands.
Give them 15 years of "the B1G is the best" type media coverage and media payouts and you'll have schools like Rutgers out recruiting everyone that's not currently B1G or SEC.
Living in SEC territory, I haven't met anybody nearly as obnoxious as people who go the THE Ohio State University (or THE University of Virginia). The whole Big 10 is resting its laurels on the merits of Michigan and anOSU.
And yeah, maybe the whole Danny Coale thing has left a monumental amount of stink on their program (with a half life that will carry the stink for at least a thousand years). Fuck Michigan and the horse that carried in the Wahoo.
Fuck Michigan. It was a catch.
And always will be.
-- Queen Elizabeth II, on her deathbed
I'm going to drop my hottest TKP take: this isn't a tainted championship.
I wish UW won, but pennix and his receivers just had an off day. I continue to think that this scandal is the funniest thing to happen in college football since Bobby petrino got in a 'motorcycle accident.'
Edited lol
IYKYK (for Mr Show fans)
Mike Price's short lived tenure as Alabama's HC also falls into the "funniest thing to happen in college football"
Yep - I stand corrected
Sorry, you've all clearly forgotten about Texas Longhorns special teams coach Jeff Banks, who got in trouble when his stripper girlfriend Pole Assassin's pet monkey bit a kid.
He also coached at UVA for like a week
I dunno. Pretty hard to unsee this.
Ah fuck how could I forget pole assassin?!?!
Anyways, my point stands - the Michigan scandal was sooo much fun to watch unfold. It was so ridiculous. It was victimless. It was PEAK college football.
It's ridiculous, but not victimless. You understand the concept of breaking the rules in games/sports, right?
Did Justin Fuente send live scouts employed by him to his future opponents games to film their signals and alignments? Did Pry do that? If not, they are the victims trying to compete with teams that did. And if live scouting offers no advantage - like steroids (lmfao) then why do it?
right. and I know UM fans who dismiss the whole cheating scandal as "everybody does it, it's not a big deal"
I think we should get all the sign steal information through FOIA. The university paid for the trips so that information should be owned by the university.
That will only work for the public universities.
And Michigan is public, so we should be able to get everything they had.
I mean, they beat the 4 hardest teams on their schedule without any live scouting, so one could argue that it didn't have that significant of an advantage.
Huge assumption they didn't have scouting on washington, etc.
Not only could they have been scouting these teams in advance, but this ignores all the wins they got over teams that they did live scout. And I know - they beat everyone they played by a million, but maybe they have a few closer games without the cheating. And maybe the starters have to play longer, and maybe they get a few more injuries. Maybe the depth isn't as good because it doesn't get as many game reps.
I don't doubt that they're talented enough to win the championship legitimately, but hand-waving the cheating away with "ah, well, they weren't doing it anymore when they beat these four good teams" doesn't make a ton of sense.
Maybe they didn't NEED to cheat.
But they DID cheat.
I don't know if you will ever be able to convince me of the following:
If you steal, but you didn't have to, you're still a thief.
If you cheat, but you didn't have to, you're still a cheater.
Oh, no! A cheater in college football?!?
good use of meme
Great meme.
However, we saw how well it worked out for that guy.
The plan was solid. It was the incompetence and horrible timing with the storm that got him.
and the fact he was in a shitty jeep wrangler
What do you mean, at the time it was brand n.... oooooh I got it, good point
To be fair, in the gif above he's not the cheater that got called out. He's the one calling out.
He was scummy, so maybe he's Penn State in this instance? Or anOSU?
LOL i had completely forgotten about this
Agreed on three of the four. Harbaugh has not been punished by the NCAA over either investigation yet. They self imposed a three game suspension for something that is normally a 4-6 game suspension. But as that would mean he would have to skip conference games, they cut their self imposed suspension short.
As for the other more serious investigation, the B1G suspended him 3 games not the NCAA.
Yeah I've been wondering if all of the UoM scandal(s) weren't actually masterminded by Jim as some weird motivational tool to make his elite roster feel persecuted.
I know it's a stretch but I wouldn't put it past him.
No way. You think CJH created Connor Stallions Vaccuum LLC? You think he stole player data from the naval academy? That story was too wild to be made up
But it also unraveled way to easily. It's too obvious to be real at the same time.
I don't actually believe it but it's fun in a made-for-tv kinda way
sorry, "they only cheated half the season" isn't enough for me to let them off the hook. There's still that half of the season they WERE cheating for.
They did their time. They had to play their two biggest division rivals without their head coach. And they still won. They were that good. They deserved this win.
They didn't do ANY time. They did without their executive coach on the field a few weeks. Clearly didn't affect them at all.
They should have been disqualified this year for cheating. Doesn't matter how good they were.
Otherwise, where is the integrity in this sport, when, if cheating works, you're too big to fail? So, if you cheat and you're not that good, they can throw the book at you?
What's the incentive not to cheat? When Harbaugh's conscience is the guardrail, college football has worked itself into the "no consequences" zone.
lol integrity? In college sports?
Surely you jest
while Kiera Knightly over James Spader is a given., how does TKP about Kiera Knightly over Emma Watson?
All playing 2nd fiddle to Ana de Armas lately
I get that, but Knightly and Watson (great band name, but the way) both slot into that
flat chestedslender, British brunette demographic whereas Ana de Armas has a corner on the mildly exotic, curvier archetype. Kind of like a Catherine Zeta Jones or Angelina Jolie.Knightly & Watson is a better buddy cop show than it is a band name
How about Knightly & Watson together on stage, in a band called Knightly & Watson, dressed as sexy cops?
xzibit yo dawg dot jpeg
A buddy cop show with Knightly and Watson, huh?
Knightley and Watson? I dunno. but I could totally get behind Watson Knightley.
ok, I'm done. I apologize for my foray into immaturity. Won't happen again.
Was that an innuendo?
More like
Agreed on all counts. Harbaugh has unequivocally shown that cheating should be encouraged.
Here's the playbook:
Cheat for a while until you're on the verge of getting caught or get caught.
Create secret monetary windfall for the "fall guy"
Self report and/or inflict self punishment thats serious enough for ESPN to report on, but not enough to actually matter
Create a backup structure that allows you to function normally without "punished" people present
Win lots of games
Win Natty
Rinse and repeat
And if it were any "lesser" program, they'd still be doing their time.
This is Brady/LeBron/Crosby getting all the calls and no-calls, but on an institutional level. The rules don't apply to superstars and bluebloods. That's always royally pissed me off, too.
They're good, sure. But I categorically disagree that they did their time and that they deserved it.
This has always been true about everything in the world for the entirety of human history. And it always will be until the end of the universe. That may be the truest thing anyone has ever written in the entire span of the Human race up to now.
and not enough people have been royally pissed off about it
Let's be realistic they were caught cheating for 2.5 years not just half of this season. Which coincidentally is when they started to get good, recruiting improved, and Harbaugh came off the hot seat. I can see the last two years wins taken off the books at a minimum when the NCAA finally rules in 3 years.
It doesn't count if you don't beat an SEC team, per ESPN. UGA is the champion because they beat FSU by so much, while MU struggled with a wounded UW. Ask Paaawlll.
Transitive properties apparently dont apply to the SEC. Last I checked Michigan > Alabama > Georgia > FSU > LSU > ... Missouri