Virginia Tech Athletics announces departure of Kenny Brooks Tuesday— Virginia Tech Women's Basketball (@HokiesWBB) March 26, 2024
End of a great era for women's basketball at Tech.
Forums:
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.
Comments
😭
This sucks. I hope we at least tried to hold on to him.
Of Fucking Course he is. better hope Pry doesn't win 8
You all can down vote this all you want, but the truth hurts sometimes and by downvoting DC's comment you are confirming that Jack Nickolson was right in A Few Good Men.
Can't upvote him enough on this one. It's 100% accurate. If Pry gets 8 this year he's going to be a candidate for getting poached.
Pry has (reportedly) been very picky with HC opportunities throughout his whole career, so I don't think he's going to bolt for a bigger paycheck.
THAT SAID if PSU opens right after VT has a great year, yea he's gone.
Pry makes $4 million a year. Every SEC school except Vandy and Mississippi St pays their HC at least $6 million. If some SEC school calls Coach Pry up and offers him double what he's making at VT, he's suddenly not going to be so picky, I bet.
If Pry wins 10 games next year, I think he'll get a substantial raise/extention. If he gets an offer from a middle tier SEC/B10 school (Iowa, Ole Miss, SCar, etc), I bet we can compete. If a blueblood/blueblood adjacent school offers, he's gone.
South Carolina will be paying Shane Beamer $6.375 million this year. Pry will be making $4.75 million. Even a bottom tier SEC/B10 school can easily offer Pry a 50% raise that I doubt VT will be able to counter. That's not even taking other support, facilities, etc. into account. Just straight up base pay. And that gap isn't going to narrow over time.
Strack is gonna tear it up in the SEC next year
The entire team will leave. Welcome to the basement of the ACC.
yes and she will get calls wearing the SEC patch
This one hurts A LOT...
Damn.
At the end of the day, Kenny is doing what he thinks is right for himself, as well as his family. He did what he was hired to do and that was turn around our program. I wish him nothing but success and finding a way to shut Mulkey up. Interested to see what way we go with this hire and the money that will be allocated for it.
Which means squat if all our players leave.
Welcome to the new landscape. It sucks, but that's just how it is. Unless we promote an assistant that all the players and recruits love, it starts again.
Couldn't disagree more. He got us closer to a (team) National Championship than any other VT coach in any NCAA sport since Frank Beamer in 1999. He gave us
78 seasons. I've never been at a job more than 5 years (and don't see a future where I'm ever at job that long again, unless I'm a cofounder). He got us to the big dance 4 times in a row. He proved that you can win big in Women's Basketball at VT. He did his job, and then some.Thank you for your service Coach Brooks, looking forward to seeing you prosper throughout the rest of your career 🫡
I'm not questioning his achievements; I'm saying that the impact on the future of VT women's basketball will be jack shit if the coach and all the players leave. What is a basketball program if the coach and all the players aren't there anymore? Did all of those highly touted recruits sign with Tech because they love the school so much, or because they knew they could be successful there under Coach Brooks? I'm happy we got some banners to hang up, but there's no reason to believe that success will continue.
He proved that he could win big at VT. Means nothing if he's not coaching here. He built a fantastic roster, let's see how many of them stick around. He signed a top-notch recruiting class for next year, let's see if a single one of those ladies ever sets foot on campus.
It's possible, but I wouldn't hold my breath based on how I've seen this go for other schools in our position.
College coaches are built different... they all think that if person X can do it, then I can too.
Also, if Brooks is the only person (or at least one of the very few) people who can win at VT, then our success was limited anyways, and we have bigger issues than whoever our head coach is.
He took more money and promises from an awful women's program and left his home state and a super talented roster he built and took to the national semi's. 100% about money. I don't begrudge him but let's call it what it is. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$- Fuck the SEC.
Just my opinion and mostly conjecture since I have no true insight into our athletics program:
I don't think it is 100% about money. Largely about money, sure, but I think there is a systemic, cultural problem throughout the university and within athletics. Too many rumors/reports about certain aspects being a shitshow, someone being stuck in the mud in their ways/not willing to adapt to the changing athletics landscape, being content with the status quo, etc. I hear from many employee peers at the university complain that they hate athletics and how it (allegedly) takes away from the academic mission. Some think we spend way too much on athletics and the athletes, at the same time not truly understanding exactly how far behind we are compared to many other universities. Based on comments from other TKPers it sounds like President Sands has no passion for our revenue sports, but he doesn't stand in the way because knows they attract better applicants and interest for academia. I have heard from several former athletes that some of the support areas for athletes have been terrible, making their day-to-day lives miserable.
So again, 100% my opinion and rumor-based conjecture, but there seems to be enough smoke that while we have truly amazing and passionate fanbase that will worship the coaches and players that take us to the top, all of that is built on a crack-laden foundation that will struggle to support sustained, championship-caliber sports. Coaches see better facilities, better support systems, better access to the resources they need, etc., so they bolt.
this is completely believable and very sad to read, if true.
I bet every college professor at a research university thinks this.
Guitarman (who is employed by the university and I believe has had ample interactions with Sands) has said in past posts that he believes Sands is well aware of the value of football to the culture of the university. Hopefully he can pop in and correct me if I'm wrong.
We've seen the same athletes who were vocal about the issues that adminstration had in the Fuente days come out and talk about how much better it is these days.
This is NOT by any stretch intended to be a blanket endorsement of Whit, Sands, and others, but just pointing out that for every rumor circumlating that athletics are failing, there's an opposing take/rumor. In no circumstances do I think that our athletic department is being run as smoothly as Alabama's, but I also believe (based on reports from insiders, comments from Stephen Godfrey, and things that vocal people in the monogram club have said) that the athletic department is improving and getting up to speed.
Circling back to this comment:
I think (really, hope) it's possible for this to be true AND that Whit/Sands are doing a decent (not amazing, but decent) job navigating us through the shifting landscape of college athletics. At the end of the day, I think the athletics department needs a lifeline (eg; an invite to the SEC or a Phil-Knight-level donor) to win a national championship in any sport. Sands can lobby behind closed doors and make backroom deals to get us an AAU membership, but until someone finds away around the GoR, I'm not sure what Sands and Whit can do other than find creative ways to beg for money.
And in the event Sands is working us into the SEC, we won't know until everyone knows 🤷♂️
Everyone on this board knows that no matter what VT does with "support" (the brand new best in class nutrition center sucks already I see) and facilities will NEVER be enough. It won't be. It's never enough.
Take your logic elsewhere. When you sign a contract at VT - you are here for life. Or until you get fired.
This is obviously true, but that doesn't mean we're obligated to like it. Especially if there's a corresponding raiding of the talent that he built up here. Kinda undercuts the "look what he built" if he takes 80% of it with him as he goes, and we have to start that process all over.
It's 2024- he's taking 100% of the players he wants with him.
That's the issue with the landscape today. We will probably be left with a gutted program and recruiting class. We either have to gut someone else lower than us or just completely rebuild. I'm not sure how this is "good" for the sport.
Until someone figures out how to compensate schools for building and developing the talent that can just leave all nilly willy, I think you're going to see the continued deterioration of college athletics.
Kentucky men's hoops doesn't win in March anymore. The model for teams to compete is to build a team of guys that will stay with you. Then you have older, bigger, stronger guys competing against hot shot freshman. That's the model to compete today. Get old, stay old with guys that won't transfer for 2 minutes more of playing time. Make a run every 3-4 years.
The next coach can also bring their girls with them - just like Willy Fritz did when he left Tulane for Houston.
Sure, but we aren't hiring a P2 coach with P2 players. Will our players/recruits stick around to play for someone hired from a lower-tier school?
Sure, I'm not suggesting we won't be able to field a team. What I'm saying is that the pieces he put together, which we've all been spending years being excited about, aren't going to be here. Which is a pretty significant reset.
That said, I'm sure that Whit has a list of potential replacements, and has already been contacting their people.
top of that list just got hired at clemson fwiw
Can we out bid Clemson? Wouldn't be the first time someone switched immediately after taking a job.
Fuck Clemson. Show we are serious about women's hoops and go get Brenda Freese from Maryland.
pay her 3 million. Go in debt like Tennesee does, like Maryland does. Fuck Clemson. Go get a big time coach.
We could but Poppie went to Clemson because they have a landing spot out of the ACC.
You wonder if either Brooks told him that he was leaving (coaches talk and he was supposedly Brooks' "right-hand man") or if VT put out any feelers given the reports of Brooks interviewing, his history as a VT assistant, and knowing VT couldn't compete with UK financially.
Have to think it's very likely Poppie knew or suspected the upcoming VT vacancy and decided to go to Clemson instead.
"VT couldn't compete with UK financially" - this is fucking awesome isn't it? Northern Virginia is literally the wealthiest part of this country outside some parts of silicon valley. Kentucky leads the country in poverty rate. Fucking joy.
this is like Christmas morning for you, isn't it?
a lot of that money in nova is from outside the state. Not everyone who lives there is a VT fan / alum. Tons of money comes in b/c of the gov't from all over the world.
Women's basketball was our best shot at a natty - now that that is seemingly out of the question, I am leaning to the camp of resign bball to be mid - invest everything in football.
I keep seeing this sentiment, but don't really get it.
We'll never appear in another National Championship in football.
Yes and Yes, and in fact if you can't win the tourney where UCONN is out and Staley loses her one game in 5 years when all you have to do is beat LSU? You aint winning in womens hoops ever.
People think that improving football will get us an invite to the P2. In reality, if we win 10 games next year, some P2 school will just hire Pry away from us and all our decent players will portal out. We're officially a farm school for the SEC and B1G and there's no real reason to believe that will ever change.
Sports wins won't get you to the P2...its irrelevant- See Stanford. They literally win more than any other total sports program. Oh football wins you mean? - UVA is a lock for P2 expansion. It's not about wins. It's about maximizing money. UNC is the top target- higher than FSU - why? Jordan Brand
or any team sport, to be honest. National Championships are hard to win and as long as we're in the sinking ACC VT has the longest of long shots at any titles. I'd like to think that if we were in the SEC, we wouldn't be losing KB to Kentucky. The ACC is the anchor around VT's neck dragging ALL sports down
Not really. Natty's are hard to win for VT and Kansas State. Not for UCONN, UVA, Maryland, UCLA, Ohio state, Alabama, Wake, etc etc etc
It doesn't even have to be football. Pick a sport to go all in on, I don't care which one. Pull a Clemson and cut other programs to beef this one up if you have to. Just get us that team natty, idgaf what it takes
DAMMIT! Things were looking so good for next year too!
God damn it.
Fuck sports. I mean seriously. What is the fucking point of being a fan anymore?
Let me help ya man. The point of being a VT fan in 2024 and beyond- 1. Slurp all things SEC. 2. Accept that ESPN has willfully killed our conference with their monopoly on TV rights and paying our competitors double. You have to swallow that now. 3. Give as much of your own money as you possibly can to Whit so he can pay Georgia Amoore who is leaving for Kentucky. 4. Listen to excuses made as to why our school simply can't win in sports- in this case, Cassell colesium sucks- give us money to fix it.
Fuck the SEC. Fuck ESPN. Fuck Kentucky. Fuck fuck.
And Swofford and Larry Scott - both of whom should be higher on the list than ESPN OR the SEC.
One correction, nobody is paying Georgia Amoore right now. She loses her visa with pay under the current laws. That said if she is playing BB anywhere next year, it will be at Kentucky with Kenny. As much as I want her to, she isn't going to stay here and lead a rebuild.
Fudge Buckets. Grumble, Growl. Start working on saving that class and get a new coach in here tomorrow!
There is no saving. Transfer rules mean this team will be gutted. If the new coach can't show he has final 4 potential, the team will be a feeder team where the best players transfer to higher NIL payments each year. We just went from big fish to bait fish.
Fuck man. The worst thing as a tech fan is that this is only the beginning. Any coach (baseball, softball) or player is now fair game for the B1G or SEC. We are officially small potatoes and will be until either realignment, the ncaa falls, or another depression. It sucks.
I've been kidding myself that we could still make it competitively in sports via name recognition as VT or in the ACC... that door is now firmly slammed shut.
Man, this fucking sucks. What even is the point of contracts and commitments at this point? I would say this should hurt his whole "family" reputation and pitch to recruits, but now a days they will just be able to follow him where ever. Seeing him cry at the press conference but he's got one foot out the door really digs the knife deeper
I stated this in the other thread, but I viewed the tears in the presser as him knowing he is leaving
JMU's program didnt lose a beat. Just hire O'Regan and call it good. Rinse and repeat after he gets poached by SEC/B1G. Don't overthink it.
Quick names for replacements (or is that a different thread?) that I think could be good hires:
- Aaron Roussell, UofR; 3 NCAA tournaments between stints at Bucknell and Richmond and was A10 Coach of the Year
- Karl Smesko, Florida Gulf Coast; 672 - 137 career record, 10 NCAA tournament appearances
- Mark Kellogg, WVU; 470 - 128 career record (only first season at WVU, most of career at Stephen f. Austin prior
- Kim Stephens, Marshall; first season at Marshall w/unique system, but if we think the ACC is heading in the toilet and we can't compete financially from a recruiting perspective, her approach with better talent than she has at Marshall could be interesting
If memory serves both Marshall and FGC both run a shoot at least 40 three a game system.
Who wants to live in Kentucky? It just don't make sense.
hey now, I like it here
Name does NOT check out...
We all carry a bit of the stadium inside us all
...or also likely that a lot of us stole some Hokie stone at somepoint
Hey, it's not my fault construction crews just left those pallets of stone *right* next to the woods off Washington St my freshman year.
Were you with me when we went and got some at that exact spot? And people were out playing tennis despite the fact it was 2am?
Was R*****l G**b**t also present?
Russel Gilbert? Randall Gilbert?
Rachael Gilbert?
I kept the shard that struck me in the head after the mason chiseled it across the lawn outside the Navy building. I think it's a fair, out-of-court settlement for my pain & suffering.
You ever been to Kentucky? I've lived in VA, TX, and FL for long durations, visited plenty of other states, and Kentucky is top on my list of places to retire.
There is no ocean that borders Kentucky, therfore it is a lower tier place
It's true.
Ocean > Landlocked.
Colorado, though landlocked, evens the score with stunning mountain views and hiking/skiing.
Doesn't stop half the trucks here from having the stupid "Salt Life" sticker plastered on their window
Ah, yes, the Pennsyltucky Navy.
Wild that brand is still alive after the whole "50 y/o founder murdered his teenage girlfriend" ordeal.
To 99% of people, it's not even a brand, it's just a status symbol sticker that communicates that you go to the beach for a week once a year.
Turns out the roads through there actually connect to other states.
Yes and I still stand by my statement. If I really need bluegrass in my life, I can grow some in VA.
What about Bourbon?
I was about to say, Kentucky is home to bourbon, which is one of my life's great pleasures.
Kentucky may be home to bourbon, but I can get it almost anywhere in the country.
Point of parliamentary procedure. Virginia has the rightful claim to bourbon.
According to lore (French for bullshit) Elijah Craig invented bourbon. Elijah Craig was from Orange County, VA. Ergo, Virginia is home to bourbon.
Alternatively, bourbon was invented in the late 1700s in Bourbon County, Virginia, before Kentucky existed.
Lots of muddy history to how bourbon started. Legal definition didn't actually come until the 60s thanks to cooperages' lobbying. But I do like the idea of Elijah Craig only having barrels that previously held fish to ship his whiskey, so he lit the insides on fire and then when they arrived in New Orleans, people loved the "brown whiskey" they got out of it.
Virginia was more home to America's true spirit; Brandy.
I say home of, because that's where the bourbon factories are. Birthplace is a whole different thing.
Me and alcohol do not agree with one another.
In that case, if you do find yourself here, there are some great donut/bakery/cafes here
Every state has those (some real gems out your way though). The real sales pitch is burgoo and mutton bbq.
I like scotch, but I don't have to go to Scotland to buy it.
You don't have to, but you should. At least once.
I've been, it was incredible. Found a new favorite scotch on a visit to the Oban distillery, fortunately it's one I can get in the US (their distiller's edition is fantastic, but their standard 14yr is really good too). A friend gave me a bottle of Macallan 18 year for my 40th birthday, and I did a blind comparison between that and the Oban distiller's edition with some whiskey-loving friends, and the Oban was the unanimous favorite. Macallan 18 is like $380, the Oban distiller's edition is $100.
You're right. As long as you can get quality ingredients, distillation works everywhere.
But how can you make bourbon with that kentucky limestone filtered groundwater?
When I went to some distilleries last year I couldn't tell if they were more proud of their groundwater or their bourbon.
Yeah, they won't stop talking about it. Ignoring that most drinking water comes from the ohio, and the water they use to proof down is usually just reverse osmosis stuff
They can claim nobody else has their groundwater.
Just like French appellations can claim nobody else has their terroir for growing grapes.
It's something the competition doesn't have.
Learned a new word today-thanks!
My take: if a place seems to focus in too much on the raw ingredients, it's a tipper that the final product is lacking.
It more says they want something they have exclusive control of.
You know, the goal of every modern business.
The leg up. And the reason that Oskar blues, new Belgium, ballast point, sierra Nevada, etc did extensive water testing before selecting a final east coast site.
Most water will have just a little bit of something done to it prior to mass production in alcohol. Question is, how much does that cost each time. Lessen the cost of treatment, with a better raw product, and the product and the bottom line are served well.
True.
Women's Basketball program going down faster than a Baltimore bridge.
too soon?
I immediately thought of Season 2 when I heard about this. I guess Ziggy found a way to the top of the docks.
Best TV show ever, and you can't convince me otherwise.
Weird, I didn't know Wendell Pierce was in Justified.
Yep. Best ever.
yes too soon
Sigh
Is it fair to call up the ticketing office and rescind our orders for WBB season tickets? Athletics obviously failed to hold up their end of the bargain...why should we be expected to as well?
Ah yes because that's how to stay relevant Jesus Tech fans are the weirdest bunch when it comes to dollars.
Hey now, I invested MY hard-earned dollars and committed to a significant investment of my precious time because I believe(d) in Coach Brooks and the program that he built. Now that the product is gone, I think it is fair to be able to reassess my investment. I never said that I, nor anyone else, should pull all donations/funding from WBB. You just assumed that is what I meant because you wanted to be able to put yourself up on a pedestal.
I don't think it's the dollars... I think it's people want to be relevant/feel like they have a bigger impact than they actually can.
Based on that, we would have effectively doubled Brooks' salary just to get him roughly equal with Joni Taylor.
It's kind of alarming that we can't get 7 figures for a coach who got to an NCAA semifinal and signed a top 6 recruiting class on one of the school's 5 most visible sports teams.
They always leave for money. All else is window dressing
How is it that we cannot afford a salary bump to keep him? Is our fundraising still not even that close to cutting it?
I think it's a cultural
issuething.This is not correct. We offered him a big salary increase and likely matched UK's offer from what I gather. It's the other support (staff, NIL, facilities) that we couldn't since UK has so much excess cash to throw around now.
Smh... I'm just going to turn my attention to baseball and softball while those last and before we get poached and NIL'd back to the A10 days
But that excess cash isn't just TV money - I'll pull the numbers later but I'm pretty sure that the Kentucky donorbase gives way more than VT's.
True - UK is also a big basketball school so that's what they will prioritize.
Yup. You can tell by kenny not sending out a 'thank you Hokie Nation' tweet or something.
He didn't even do that? WTH...
Exactly. Which tells me he must've been the culture issue
Before we go anointing St. Kenny, let's stop and realize that we offered him salary but unlike UK, aren't going to just break the bank on women's basketball. In January we were all super excited that we retained our roster and added a lot of big pieces in football. That's where the focus is and should be.
That was the biggest surprise of his leaving. No thanks for having me for 8 years, etc.
This really, really sucks. We couldn't keep a lifelong VA guy from jumping to an SEC school with little history of women's hoops success.
Hard not to interpret this as: KB didn't think he had the resources at VT to go all the way and/or permanent relegation to "little dog" status due to our conference situation.
I mean he's also going to be the 3rd highest paid coach in the SEC (country?) so like I'd probably leave too even as a VT alum.
Money and seeing the millions they are dropping into the women's sports arena upgrades this past season.
but we're a family, right Kenny?
Yeah... kind of my thought there. It was all talk once the money was on the table.
The real twist of the knife is going to be when he takes our best players and recruits and I turn on a random game the next few years and you see them all in a Kentucky uniform like when I catch a random aTm game.
This sucks.
I guess this is when Whit Babcock is supposed to earn his pay, right? Right?
With Fuente being the *major* exception, Whit has hired very well overall...
Obviously the football hire is the biggest one in Blacksburg (as is the case for many schools), but aside from Fuente, the track record of Whit's hiring record has been exceedingly good and somewhat underappreciated.
The problem is he's keeping (or kept) the one we didn't need, and can't hold on to the ones we want to keep.
Sucks and hate to see him go. I get the sense this was probably more about total program resources/NIL/facilities, as we probably did try to be competitive with salary. But at the end of the day, VT has to do everything possible to be attractive as a P2 candidate. We can't spend money we don't have on other sports to the detriment of football - that's just the cold hard reality right now and for the next couple of years. If we commit funds to other sports and miss out on a P2 invite, how are we going to afford it anyway as our financial resources slowly dry up? It's just the ugly reality and gravity of the situation right now.
But really sucks to lose Brooks, appreciate all he did in building VT women's basketball. Going to be tough to replace him, but we have to do everything we can to ensure financial sustainability moving forward and the ability to hang out to coaches like him in the future. I really think the next 12-24 months are going to be absolutely critical for the future of VT athletics.
the longer this drags on the more and more I believe that the ship has sailed and VT doesn't have a realistic path into the P2 which, long term, is the only way to sustain a fun, competitive athletics program. VT is just going to die a slow painful death, much like most of the rest of the ACC. It was fun while it lasted. I'm very thankful to have been a student at Tech near the peak of our football glory years. I don't think we'll ever return to that level in any sport unless we find ourselves, miraculously, in the P2. And that seems like a long long shot.
I remember all the buzz about conference realignment my freshman year at VT 2011-2012. Hard not to think what could have been if we made it into the SEC instead of... f'ing Mizzou.
This is correct. We had money to match. Didn't come down to money. Whit has one of the toughest jobs in the country with VT being on the P2 bubble.
Did he build anything if everything is gone now?
The banner will still hang, but the legacy will shrink
Absolutely. But he's taking it with him.
Brooks built nothing but two good teams and his resume. What hurts me most is that I believed his shtick. It's like you come home on your wedding anniversary with flowers and champagne and love in your heart and the house is dark, the pots are cold, and the divorce papers are on the table with a pen to sign them.
Yes, and if/when he cites "we're a family here" at his KY presser, I will throw up in my mouth.
He hit a home run with Kitley and Amore at the exact same time. If either of those two ladies hadn't worked out we probably don't have this thread.
Sure, but he's a good recruiter.
And what is most important in college sports?
Not just a great recruiter. He has shown he knows how to identify key players in the portal and that he is an even better player development coach.
It wasn't just Amoore and Kitley. You had Aisha Sheppard, Regan Magarity, Kayana Traylor and Taylor Soule get drafted in the WNBA. Prior to those four, Hokies only had four get drafted in an 18 year span. That's six WNBA selections in 8 years (assuming Kitley and Amoore get drafted this year) and there are likely two or three more in current players/recruits that will eventually get drafted (Blue, Silva and Strack are my thoughts there.)
Absolutely.
But what is the most important trait in an NCAA basketball coach? Being able to recruit (and retain) talent.
The NCAA has become all about getting the Jimmies and Joes.
Is Mulkey a great coach, or is it that she has the ability to attract the top players? When a player doesn't work out, she cuts them. This can work at Baylor OR LSU.
Is Iowa great because their coach knows how to coach, or because Caitlin Clark is a generational talent?
If your best player is out for the tournament, does your team still win all the marbles? Or will the team with the top player still be the one to make the finals?
Most of the top 20 teams have pretty good coaching staffs.
Brooks happened to be a perfect fit for VT, and who was able to build a program there.
Buzz Williams is another recent example, though I never thought he'd stay at VT, where I thought Brooks might.
Maybe it's both, but without the a-lister, your team has a lot lower chance of winning the tournament.
This, of course, is the concern about the P2. You don't get the money, you don't get the talent, you don't get the wins.
LSU is going to win tonight, because the rules are different. Mulkey's teams are allowed to punch you in the face and it doesn't get called. They are allowed to push, go over the back, foul counstantly- never gets called. Iowa can't overcome that. They aren't THAT good to play an unfairly called game.
I have LSU winning tonight for exactly those reasons. That was how they beat us last year and this year and how they won the title last year in just the games I watched.
I think the counter to that would be Oregon State. They didn't win the championship but made the Elite 8 with a well balanced team who did all the fundamentals right. Their coaches post game press conference was awesome.
That's a great feel-good story.
Still, South Carolina goes to the Final Four. Again.
I know he's been nothing but a west coast guy his entire life and is an OSU alum, but with Oregon State stepping down to the WCC next year, does Scott Rueck look to stay at the P4 level (using that term lightly...)?
All the players are west coast as well, so not likely to bring many if he did make a move east.
Salary this year was $1.1M.
There is probably an ACC team who could use him, and his odds are going to get longer with time at OSU.
I have seen Hokies on X wondering if this would be a fit. Not sure it would. Outside of coaching it's likely a fish out of water situation. Great coach with a history of success but all West Coast. Won a D-3 National Title at George Fox in 2009. Has been a Naismith COY finalist or semifinalist 4 of the last fifteen years. His teams have won over 70% of his career games.
I mean, we're just borrowing him for 3-6 years anyway....
*Ducks*
Tennessee's coach now available
If Football is the priority then stop pretending with the other sports/facilities. Show Mike Young the door too. Hire bare minimum. Put it all in Football. Meet Title IX with bare requirements. If we aren't aiming to be the best then why spend at all? Don't envy Whit today, not mad at Kenny but admit to everyone clearly where we are and focus solely on Football.
I really question whether even Men's basketball is a true revenue sport. It would need to clear at least $5M to offset maintaining Cassell, paying for Coaches, support staff, additional Athletic Department staff, broadcasters, practice facility, travel, etc
The issue is nothing is the "priority" . If football is the priority and we lose in embarrassing fashion at ODU, Pry would be fired. So we know that's not going to happen. If men's hoops is the priority, whit will hire a big time player personnel guy, and get another top assistant this offseason. Doubtful that happens. Maybe he surprises us with Brook's replacement.
I may be fully checked-out on College Sports at this point.
This is the future for the "have-nots"...effectively farm Programs for the P2 in any sport that can generate revenue or attention.
Women's CBB has soared in popularity and media attention in the past 5 years. UK wants in on that.
This is going to become S.O.P. for SEC and B1G programs...poach your coaches and players whenever they want. Even shitty programs with no history of success: see UK women's basketball.
If Pry wins 8 or 9 games this year, he'll be hired at Vandy by Christmas.
And this was all brought on by NIL and the Transfer Portal.
You can blame Brooks...did he chase money to go to an armpit of Program? Sure.
You can blame Whit..could he have opened the checkbook wider? Probably, at least to some extent.
But who should really be blamed here are the people who sold NIL as some panacea for destitute college athletes who were eating out of dumpsters 3 years ago and the people who clearly colluded to use NIL as a process to consolidate power and money to the P2. And the NCAA for being utterly spineless until it was too late.
Its over...this is the future.
It's always been this way. In the last 30 years there have been three schools who made the jump from 'have not' to 'relevant': VT, TCU, and Boise St.
Right, but there was -some- illusion of fair competition, and in 1995 Alabama couldn't get Georgia's QB unless he sat out 2 years. Different ball game now
Yep...10000%
NIL and the Transfer Portal didn't create financial adavatages, paying players, or roster tampering, but they massively widened the inequity and made roster scavenging blatant and totally accepted as a method of "recruiting."
No more middlemen or shady AAU coaches, no reason to hesistate or even think twice.
To not acknowledge the difference is disingenuous.
Edit: also, getting a Coach hired away isn't just losing them and a couple assistants, its a gut to your whole Program as essentially every key player on the Roster immediately becomes a Free Agent with no impetus to stay at home..
To me, NIL/Transfer portal is doing basically nothing to drive inequity. It's conference consolidation that is the killer.
NIL and Transfer Portal wouldn't be an issue if we had a health variety of 'power' conferences.
But the new coach can fix this just as quickly as the old coach fucked it up.
I don't think anyone realistically thinks the Big12 and ACC are on equal footing with the B1G and SEC. There is a massive gap---finanacially and now also a media-supported gap in reputation and quality of competition. ESPN and Fox are tied to the P2 at the hip and they have made it obvious with their coverage bias that they have no interest in supporting other Conferences----see Lunardi, Joe.
But we don't and won't ever again. NIL is pay-for-play---to call it anything else is false. In a Pay-for-Play scam, those with the most money benefit far over the others. The ACC deserves some blame for not seeing the reality that was in front of them---rather than wasting time with that goofy "Alliance," ACC schools should have been stocking up as much cash as possible to prepare for the "bidding war" era of College Football.
The "have nots" used to be defined by lack of traditional success and program momentum. That is, "subjective" things. Now, and increasingly going forward, it'll be objective: the "haves" will be making $50 million more a year than the have nots. That'll impact NIL, coaching, facilities, NFL/NBA access, TV viewership. The works.
The P2 are sending everyone not in the P2 down to effectively the FCS. Which... maybe that's OK? I think I can see a future where VT, along with other interesting regional schools, are in some kind of FCS environment and that'd be a lot of fun. As long as the fanbase can reset exceptions according to reality.
A firm big ass nail in the coffin. In the world of Have & Have Nots, the few are the former and the many the latter. I foresee this being no different. Not only will most teams not see the P2 landscape but ones who are currently in it will be kicked out and replaced by better aligned schools. Those few invited will become the Haves and the ones kicked out will join the rest of us.
As much as I would like to be a part of the Haves my gut tells me we will not. Hope I'm wrong, be we best get prepared for this to happen or some version that in the end, we will not like.
Don't forget the impact of television money and the power that gives them.
Hunter Cattoor for VT WBB Head Coach. Kicking off the campaign.
lol, Cattoor will assistant coach with KB, then take over at UK when he retires
The hardest part is we won't be able to build on what Brooks did, but instead we get to start from scratch.
All the players say how much they love Tech. Now we get to see if they love the school more than the coach. I hope that is the case but I doubt it. In this day it seems there is far more loyalty to the coaches. I imagine in the next 30 days our roster is going to look completely different.
I wonder how Coach Brooks will do in the SEC. His teams have always struggled with physical teams. Can he change his style to play a more physical game to compete with the LSUs and South Carolinas in the SEC. I hope it works out well for him; but I am afraid he has jumped into a situation where he may not be able to compete as well as he has in the ACC.
The folks that work in mines, etc. will buy him big physical players in NIL
I did not doubt that he could recruit physical players if he chose to. I just remember him standing on a soap box ranting about how teams don't play basketball anymore because skill teams are beaten by more physical teams. I question whether he can coach that style successfully. But obviously he thinks he can; or he thinks he can make enough money before he gets fired because he can't compete with LSU and USCe that he doesn't need to worry about it.
Based on the range his salary is going to fit into between 1.5 and 3.1. His base salary is going to be about doubled if not tripled.
The folks that work in mines root for UK, they don't pay the bills (Kentucky isn't quite Alabama). Their money comes from doctors, lawyers, horse breeders, and Ashley Judd.
So at what point can we file an anti-trust lawsuit against ESPN for destroying college sports?
Unfortunately, we are going to have to start all over. Brooks is going to take every assistant that he wants with him. If they are left behind after he left, it is because he hadn't found a good way to unload them here yet. Not easy to get rid of people at state jobs.
If Georgia is playing College BB next year, it won't be here. With Brooks, Kitley, and King gone there is zero chance she wants to rebuild a team on her own next year.
It sounds like Kentucky was already clearing room for Brooks to take as many players as he wants with him. I miss the year sit out rules that actually meant players had to think before transferring.
So if he left for money, what did VT get as his buyout? Hope Whit was smart with his extension last year and included a hefty buyout.
From the article in Roanoke Times by Mark Berman
The slow drain of joy from his face... An apt reflection of VT sports over the past 10 or so years and most of college sports in general, save for the select few deemed worthy by ESPN.
It's almost as if Whit doesn't have hand when he does these negotiations.
We gonna big dog Clemson??
Don't give me hope
I hope. Tbh this is one of the only moves that (I hope) would calm the waters. Every player and staffer raved about him, and his Mocs teams were always a tough out.
Might help in retaining some players on the current roster too
Unfortunately looks like that has sailed.
I learned recently you can hire a coach at another school who just signed a contract/extension
dang it
Remember when Miami hired Manny Diaz 18 days after Temple hired him? It could happen
The fat lady may be warming up her pipes, but she hasn't started to sing yet.
Narrator: we did not big dog clemson 🙁
Edit: drinking for multiple reasons now
Fudge it! I absolutely hate this for Tech. The "We are Family" attitude takes another kick in the ass.
Its a tough love money game in college athletics and Tech is not winning. Reinforces my dislike of the SEC and ESPN.
"We are family... until there is business involved. Then we are business!
This is a microcosm of where we, both VT and the ACC, are right now. I wrote on this site two years ago, after speaking with the person at UNC who oversees all the NIL compliance stuff, that the ACC was done. This person from UNC told me that it the ACC was dead, that it had no plan and that each school would need to figure things out on it's own.
Unless, or until, VT gets into the SEC or BIG this kind of thing will continue to happen. We are just a sexier version of JMU at this point. College sports are finished. The student athlete experience, for the majority of these kids, is over. And the fan experience, with local and regional rivalries, is over. ESPN ruined college athletics and the Brooks situation, and I have no hard feelings towards him, is simply a glimpse into what VT will be from here on out.
I hate that I agree 100% with this take.
If this is what reality is for VT, then I'm done
I don't need to be donating money to a fruitless effort.
The riot is to get to this point, ESPN ruined themselves as well. Their contracts with the SEC and the playoffs are worth more than the revenue coming in. They are deliberately undervaluing the other conferences to move those profits into paying the SEC contract knowing there is no competition.
Me to the new shithole that is college sports as VT shambles off into nothingness.
Just when things were starting to get fun
Just read a rumor that our Clay Target club coach may be accepting a management position at Rural King in Lexington. What a fucking day.
Being a Hokie...
Why in the fuck was Whit blabbing he had a chance to retain Kenny? It's the same thing he said when everyone knew Buzz was gone. Learn how to manage expectations.
My guess, he asked the Board of Visitors and Sands for enough money to keep him. They told him no.
Yah in hindsight I find his statements very confusing or oblivious on his part; neither a good look or reassuring
counterpoint: statements state the same
Our administration is clueless. Between this, the stuff that came out around the Fuente era and so many other fumbles over the years, I just don't have any faith in them to do whats best for us going forward.
If Pry has a semi-decent year, I expect he'll take a fat check elsewhere as well.
VT athletics is always, always re-active - never pro-active.
Butbutbut VT brand only worth 1/3 Nbrska brand
I really didn't read the Whit interview with Berman that positively and I'm not sure I had the same take away. It was very PR heavy and I assumed Kenny was gone as soon as I read it. By all accounts we countered with a really strong offer (like, close to MBB level of coaching $$) but it wasn't enough. I think there are other items (ie teams are now permitted 5 full time assistants, we only had 3 and spent much of 2022-2023 with only 2) related to staff compensation and NIL potential.
I don't think we were ever in a position financially (from a raw salary perspective) to retain Buzz - I think, theoretically, we were for Kenny.
I know this has been said, but I came here just to say it, so:
Sorry not enthused by this hire but with everything else going on I guess that's no surprise
I'm not enthused either but don't think it's a bad hire on paper if it's the case. Good record at rice, learned from 2 really good ACC coaches and understands the league and the region, and we likely wouldn't have to immediately fight off other potentially coaches.
We're not good enough to necessarily poach another P5 coach I don't think (I had mentioned WVUs coach earlier, but he's only been there one year) and any other mid major coach would likely have similar question marks as her.
I honestly don't know if there are big assistants out there we should consider too because I haven't followed women's Cbb long enough to know how deep staffs are at other schools.
This is about as big of a failure as they come.
If you can't pony up the money to keep the proven coach and recruiter that absolutely lifted that program to national relevance, then what are you doing???? You gonna pay some assistant or non-P5 coach 300-400k to come in here and basically just field a team? And expect some of the same results?
5 sellouts of WBB this season, FIVE!! I've been to many WBB games in Cassell and most of the time there's only hundreds of fans (if that) [also pre Kenny Brooks] not thousands. You won't see Cassell sellout for another WBB anytime soon. But yet, Whit will probably stand there with drool running down his chin onto his bib wondering why he's not seeing the fan support or the donations or asses in the seats. Like I can't remember a time where i've been more disappointed and pissed at the athletic department leadership. This one turns my stomach.
all accounts say we offered him a lot of money
Not enough
That's what makes it all the more confusing. By all accounts, VT was the perfect atmosphere and environment for him. If money was equal, then why choose Kentucky? Do facilities make that much difference? Could he not have leveraged that in negotiations? Is he that convinced the ACC is going to burn? Hard to imagine his value would drop that far if the conference tanked even if he's pulling in a top 10 class consistently
The money unfortunately was tip of the iceberg. Even if we exceeded their offer for him, how much did Kentucky offer for assistant coaches? Kenny has been operating with two and new rules allow five. Bet his new deal gets him five. Bet they agreed to a specific NIL number. Expect they made concessions for additional staff. Kentucky also has a WBB only arena that was just renovated. Expect he also has greater resources to recruit. The program as a whole especially if he takes our current team and recruits basically make them the #3 or #4 team in the SEC next year (South Carolina, LSU and Texas) and SCar may fall off if rumors of Staley considering retirement are true. It's a confluence of more in every aspect not dedicated fan base and that won't take long to come if he wins.
Okay, then it's shit or get off the pot. Either do away with the programs that you don't want to pony up for and allocate to the ones you do. WBB was the closest thing we had to a natty. Wrestling is good but Pedo State has the monopoly on that; runner up is probably the ceiling there. MBB is in such a disarray now, middle of the ACC is probably what we're destined for. Football failed to capitalize when we had the chance, so that ship has sailed. The diamond sports are good but not sure if we will ever have the depth at pitching on either team to ever make it deep into the CWS.
Someone better decide real soon what they want to be serious about
Yep..even if we matched UK's offer down to the dollar, there was likely much more to this.
1. NIL money this has to be a consideration in modern coaching. But the NIL collectives operate "totally independenly" of the Athletic Depts...yeah...right.
2. Support Staff...in modern college sports where you have to recruit your entie roster year-round, having robust support staff is a must if you want to have any quality of life or time to actually be a coach
3. Facilities..UK is obviously upgrading facilties..Cassel upgrade is currently in an indefinite holding pattern.
So while Whit deserves some scrutiny here--I think pinning this on him and the Athletic Dept pinching pennies is a significant oversimplification.
Going to say this on behalf of Whit. I work with somebody married to an insider in the Athletic Department. THERE IS NO MONEY. Covid hit Tech funds hard, earned a lot of distrust with the mandatory pay cuts across the board, and they haven't been made whole entirely.
The only way Tech gets the money people are talking about is to cut every men's athletic program other than Football and BB and then cut every non-essential women's program other than required by Title IX. Tech isn't going to do that. We have respectable Olympic sports and get good news on them. Do they lose money, yes. But to everybody on the whole other than diehard fans, they want a good well rounded athletic program. So Whit has his hands full trying to keep everybody satisfied.
Unless we suddenly make it into the SEC or B1G, we are going to end up a feeder system to those conferences. Just like every other non-P2 school. The Athletic Director just got more important in this world not less. He needs to find the diamonds in the rough, polish them, and enjoy them until they get stolen/bought away.
But why is there no money. Other schools outside of the P2 don't appear to be as hamstrung as we are. Are we just not allocating funds properly. Someone needs to be held accountable
Who?!!!!!! Who do you want in front of the firing squad? Those that aren't giving money? (and they won't continue to afterwards either.) Or the ones that do trying to milk them for even more when they are supporting it now.
And "don't appear" as hamstrung...how so? Is Illinois flush with cash? Boston College pulling 5 stars all of a sudden? I mean we aren't poor, but we also don't have the aTm donors and $EC pockets that have picked up for coaches recently. It's all relative. They are the BIG boys, and will always be so (unless they break off but even then, the dollar is going to win.) I'm not sure others are completely better off than us, but also it's not just about paying a coach a few more bucks. These coaches are state employees...for coaching a game. You can't just open up the bank vault to pay someone to get to the round of 32 or win 8 football games a year. There are 30,000 other students attending the university that can't suffer either. But I'm not sure I'd say we're hamstrung, it's more that other decisions have been made.
Not every school has 3 starting basketball players in the portal nor do they have coaches poached by lesser programs. By all accounts we are looking pretty poor. The comment that started this literally said we have no money. If that's not poor I don't know what is. So to me one of the two scenarios has to be true: We either are poor and have no money, or we are misallocating resources. Either way someone in the Athletic Department is not doing a good job. Fundraising is absolutely part of the AD's job and it seemed like we were making a good push with the Drive for 25, but is that enough?
And to your later point of "you can't just open up the bank vault to pay someone" well that is literally what Kentucky just did to us and what other schools around the country are doing, so yes you absolutely can.
Enough for what??? What do you want? Sure, Kentucky opened up their deep pockets, because they have them. So did aTm. Guess what! Neither of them are winning a natty. What is it you want to spend more money on? It doesn't equate to a natty. It doesn't equate to more money. It's just spending money. You act like we've raised zero dollars and thrown our hands in the air. And that's simply not true. It's a business decision. If we had doubled Kenny's salary, would that have automatically gotten us a trophy?
And yes, Kentucky did do that because they have a different bank with a lot more people using it. We aren't the same as them, or the rest of the $EC. At some point, the remaining student population comes into the equation. Most of the $EC is willing to ignore that side.
Kentucky is about to make him the 8th highest paid woman's coach. For tech to meet that would mean gutting everything else around the program. Staff, assistants, team resources.
Or cut from other programs, which I think we have the stomach for. Why be the almost there team in many sports when we could be champs in one by reallocating resources.
I'm not quite to the point where I'd accept being FCS in football if it meant keeping WBB on glideslope, but I'm fucking close. We need a team natty in a sport other than club bass fishing. Kenny was our last best shot.
This man gets it.
Tennis, golf, volleyball, swimming & diving all need to go club. We've never been relevant in them and never will be. Besides, loluva and stanford have a lock on most of those sports anyways. They have their niche and we need ours. Well, ours just went to UK so guess we'll just have to wait for the next Michael Vick
Title IX wouldn't allow the cut to all of them.
Football, Men's bball, women's bball, baseball, softball, insert cheapest possible women's sports to comply with the participation opportunities requirements. It would suck and I don't like it, but it could be done and in compliance.
I will say this. It hurts, however I will always be a Kenny Brooks fan.
I happy for what he did here but I am no longer a fan of his. I have no interest in seeing him actually prove that the ACC is dead going foward and VT is going to go down with it, by him elevating a SEC program that is just throwing money to buy a team(which is essentially College sports now). We aren't going to hear the end of how he built VT into a great team but now he is here to do it at UK, while VT is just going to go back to bottom of the ACC. We still haven't got back to the success of Buzz in MBB.
I think it really comes down to, "this shit sucks really fucking bad and I don't think I want to invest anymore time in this BS anymore", for me at least. Which really sucks because I was having fun watching VT grow into it's success.
Do you think it's impossible/unlikely for another coach to come in and have an 8 year period similar to Kenny Brooks?
Considering it took him until year 7 to have a winning conference record, no.
Why deal with watching a team develop for nearly a decade and experiencing the highs and lows just to watch them have one maybe two good years? Then when everything is running right have the coach and team run off with the guy driving the Ferrari?
Impossible - no; Unlikely - Absolutely. We don't have that kind of track record with coaches, they usually leave before they get us to that point if they are good enough.
It took us 20 years after Bonnie left to have any semblance of a WBB program with a pulse, so no. I don't think it's likely that we'll have a competitive team anytime soon.
Because Weaver literally offered the job to the first person he saw in the break room.
Exactly - that wasn't a VT problem that was a Jim Weaver problem.
This is the same AD that was prepared to let Frank Beamer go to UNC and replace him with... Gary Darnell
Not at all. Go get Brenda Freese. Go get Auriema- in America you can do anything with money.
Damn right
I wish Kenny the best but I am no longer a fan either. I don't think he is going to have the success everyone is expecting he will there.
We still haven't got back to the success of Buzz in MBB.
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Buzz didn't win the ACC tourney. Mike Young did.
That was also the last time VT has been in the NCAA tournament. CMY hasn't made it past the first round either in his 2 appearances . Buzz made it to 3 straight and a sweet 16. Buzz also made it out of the first round in his only NIT appearance with VT. I'm not saying CMY hasn't had success, I'm saying it hasn't been the level of success that we had while Buzz was here.
I understand your take on the NCAA Tournament, but an ACC Championship is an ACC Championship, and I value that much more than a Sweet Sixteen appearance.
Saw three of the supposed top 10 female portal entries are from Kentucky. Guess they are making room.
They only had 5 left the day after their season ended.
Kim mualkey will probably be available for cheap pretty soon we could go get her? /s to the nth degree I can't stand that woman
I will cancel my season tickets if that happens.
No need to worry about that one. If LSU has to fire her, she already has a contract written up by the Liberty AD just lacking her signature. /s
Ok cool so he just bailed and never gave us a chance to match? And about those facilities, they aren't as nice as what he has here.
I'm sorry, Whit, this isn't making me feel better
Lol yeah I'm sorry but actions speak louder than words
So you expect Whit to just be like "yeah brah, it doesn't matter who I hire. The better the coach, the sooner he's gone. Either way we're back to mediocrity in 5 years."
I would like him to say "here is XYZ that we are going to do to ensure the next coach has the resources they need" rather than just say we are totally fine
Reactive... thats what VT athletics does...react to when a great coach leaves...not be proactive to keep him here. Never.
We signed Brooks to a better deal less than 6 months ago. Proactively. He agreed to the deal, seemingly happy with it.
A better situation came along. We weren't able to match it. If we couldn't match it now, how were we supposed to match it before. Proactively?
The problem isn't being proactive or not (at least not all the time). It's that we make $30M less a year in athletic department revenue than Kentucky.
$30M is just TV money. Actual number I think is closer to $45M
If he wants to succeed he's got to get through to the board. What he has available to work with isn't sufficient for the whole of athletics to succeed. Unless there's some back room agreement that only football matters then we are going to continue to be in this cycle of moderate success, then a breakout, and then a coach that gets hired away. Put that on repeat every 5-10 years for every sport.
Or maybe the BoV is resigned to second- tier athletics and has been for years, and is the reason whit can't succeed. And if that's the case, I have to believe the only reason he hasn't left is it's because he hasn't found a lateral move elsewhere.
That's cool that Whit doesn't see it as a stepping stone job but it seems that a lot of other people do and will treat it as such.
As much as I hate to admit, every sport outside of a P2 school is a feeder or steeping stone job. The M2 (ACC and B12) are going to prey on the G5.
Until VT is willing to go in debt to fund athletics facilities and staff or use the millions they are withholding from player labor /S.. we are 100% a stepping stone program. Brooks left for fucking kentucky womens hoops.
The ONLY thing that stands out, and its a big one, is the "recruiting budget". The rest of any sentence, breath, statement, is filler. BUT, to that point, there's also the word "standalone" which isn't a just filler word. Sharing a remodeled bathroom is nice. But having your own is nicer.
TBF, Memorial coliseum is a shared venue but is not shared with the men's team. It's shared with gymnastics, volleyball, and stunt. After years of neglecting the coliseum, UK is revitalizing the 70-year old building.
It's significant, and obviously a point of emphasis by Brooks, but it's not like VT is competing with UK propping up women's basketball with a new building. UK built a men's facility and neglected the women's facility and now it decided to revitalize the women's facility. There is nothing equivalent that VT can do on their end.
I do think, however, that the SEC is generally pushing to enhance women's basketball and take advantage of its popularity. The SEC has money and I think they have been very strategic on how to ensure the SEC remains the premier conference. UK, with their money and "standalone" facility is just very well positioned and will be years to come. VT, as an ACC member and with a shared facility, is not well positioned and will not be.
Yes, its essentially the same thing that NCSU has done with Reynolds.
But since its the SEC, its sold as a "new arena" rather than, "Well now that we think we can make money on WBB, we actually give enough of a shit to have a decent venue."
The SEC are masters of media manipulation.
Fully agree. And why I loved the memes on SEC increasing autobids that came about with their record in the men's tournament. But Sankey and his ESPN mouthpieces like Lunardi will keep pushing the SEC over anything else until everything else is dead. And they will win.
What is crazy is that it started with football and Finebaum and we made a million jokes, but it worked. And now it's trickling into the other major collegiate sports, and all we can do is joke while we watch the destruction in real time.
Whit countered up to 1.5 almost doubling the current salary, but there wasn't money for 5 assistants on top of that.
Or support staff for every day activities, as well as NIL/Portal Evaluation/recruiting evaluation and the dollars to back those up with bottom line NIL. It comes out to about a $5M increase per year he has to operate before NIL is my understanding. And then you have the arena.
I don't think you realize the extent of the renovations to their arena. It's smaller but these renovations will be ready for next season.
See renderings here
https://ukathletics.com/memorial-coliseum-renovation/
It was a complete overhaul of the interior. Has suites and viewing from the concessions areas. It's all brand new and honestly better from an esthetic view. It likely won't be the competitive advantage the Cassell Guard section brings but it's designed to bring in $$.
LMFAO... all of that SEC TV money and they are begging for donations for a scoreboard. Fucking hilarious
Because they know they will get it. It's not begging if it's given up easily. They are just being transparent about what it funds.
I would argue that this is a reason to put less blame on Whit.
Brooks clearly was looking at the "big picture," here. He had successfully recruited the #6 class to VT and knew exactly how hard he had to work to do that.
He saw an opportunity to have more money and more support to do that and took it.
Long story short, Brooks is betting on two things: (1) himself (2) that 3,4,5 years from now UK WBB will be healthier than VT WBB.
Right now, VT clearly is the superior Program...UK is a crap job, no question about it. But UK clearly wants to make a go of it at WBB and is willing to pay to try to compete at the top of the SEC. VT can't match that financially.
You can blame Brooks if you want, maybe the Program never takes off and UK starts pulling money out and he falls flat on his face.
But UK knows that not only are they getting Brooks, thanks to the Unlimited Transfer Portal, they are going to inherit most of a team. Its the P2 plan to success---find an asset from another conference and seize it mercilessly.
Brooks saw the writing on the wall at VT--as a one-leg man in an asskicking contest against P2 competition wearing steel-toe boots.
Whit wasn't going to fix that.
Sure as hell ain't going to fix anything when you tell the media that you think VT WBB is in a good, competitive place when it's obvious to everyone else that we are only competitive to our financial peers and inferiors.
Thats his job...AD is as much a P.R. job as anything else.
He's in the process of trying to hire a coach to replace the most successful one we've had in WBB.
What do you want him to say?
"We are way behind financially and have no realistic ability to compete against the P2"
Or maybe more succinctly just-- "We're totally fucked"
That's gonna serve no purpose at all and only make his task tougher. Whit isnt perfect by any stretch but some of the criticism is unfair and lacks substance.
No, neither of those. Whit's comments have been way right (not a political direction), your examples are way left. I'd prefer if he'd be honest that there is, in fact, a huge financial gap between our program and the likes of the one that just stole our prized coach. He could have said something like "We as a Hokie nation need to continue to work to find ways to close the gap on this financial divide, and that starts with me. We are committed to improving our resources to make sure that Virginia Tech is the final destination for great coaches."
If you are a casual Hokie sports fan and all you hear/read is Whit sound bytes saying "We're in a good place financially", "We're fine, just need to find the next coach", etc, do you think those people are going to think "Hey, maybe I should donate (more) next time I see a fundraiser!" I don't think so.
But those are things you address behind closed doors.
You don't come out and publicly admit you lost a coach because you don't have equal resources when you haven't even hired the next one.
Publically, you paint a rosy picture, hire the best coach you can and try to field a strategy to raise more money.
Donors are more likely to respond to: "here's our new coach, boy are we excited and let's do everything we can to give them the support and resources they need to win."
Than: "we just lost a coach we desperately wanted to keep and if you don't donate more, we are just going to fall farther behind."
At this point, if you follow VT sports and don't understand that VT Athletics is in a precarious situation, I find it highly unlikely that you were considering Athletic donations in the first place.
Inspiration almost always yields better results than desperation.
Edit:
To add...if you make a statement about how you are committed to increasing financial resources...any reporter worth their salt is going to follow-up by asking you how...when you don't have an immediate and concrete answer (which I'm sure Whit doesn't at this point)...you then make yourself and the entire Ath. Dept look like duncecaps.
Georgia and Olivia (and Liz again) posted around the same time excitement for Brooks, have not seen any underclassmen post anything yet
For those who continue to not understand how the combination of NIL and the Transfer Portal are working together to uniquely fuck over Programs like VT, this situation should be absolute case-in-point.
Brooks left because of NIL. UK offered more money, recruit/support Staff and obviously promised a significant infusion of NIL money into the Program. That's whats going to be required to Recruit at a top-10 level. Whit's comments that ltrepeter posted above all but said this.
UK WBB stinks. Hiring just Kenny Brooks, they stink probably for at least 1-2 more years. He certainly would raise the level of play, but they are gonna get drubbed by LSU, USC and probably be mid-SEC at best. That's a big financial investment to make with plenty of uncertainty about whether he can truly turn the Program into a contender for SEC titles/NCAA tourney runs. But you add in the Transfer Portal and get both Brooks and 4-5 of his best players and Recruits (maybe more) and you instantly are at least competitive in the SEC, probably an NCAA team 1st year. So the Portal makes the financial investment so much easier to stomach and much more likely to be successful.
Its how the P2 has transformed into a Boa Constrictor around the rest of College Sports----we will outspend you and then strip you of your resources.
The people that didn't see this coming either had blinders on or a completely irrational trust in altruism.
Correct- The yankees can afford to vastly overpay Stanton, the orioles can not. Kentucky simply has more resources to play with.
Orioles might with their new multibillionaire owner. Going to be interesting to see how Os change now that Angelos passed away and the team turns over control to the new owner.
I've said that the Saudi's will reach a point with LIV that they are going to want to make money. Same with the new owner of the Orioles. I don't see him coming out of his own pocket to have a huge payroll. The margins from the team itself will need to justify it. All owners are uber rich- the Rays owner is uber rich. They want the teams themselves to make money vs. subsidizing.
Whit, I know you are doing your job but yes there is. Fuck E$PN.
Yep E$PN and Fox but more the MouseSports because they are contracted to promote ACC sports.
LOL... PLENTY of blame to go around
Says the head person in charge...
Because prior to him, VT had aimless money for sports?
One of the reasons we've had some level of success is that he has been able to attract really good coaches at affordable salaries. Unfortunately, when they succeed, the SEC inevitably comes a-calling.
Seeing Hunter get off the plane with Kenny made me more sad
Only took him a couple minutes into the opening remarks to call the SEC the best women's basketball conference after calling the ACC the best conference all season.
Don't look at the press release pics of him wearing a Kentucky pullover...
This is why I find it extremely difficult to care much at all for college sports anymore. If an NFL or NBA coach takes another job they can't gut the whole roster and take the team with them unless they are traded or free agents. Whatever college sports has become isn't professional or semi-professional, it's just complete bullshit. It's the result of a system with no rules and no one's best interest, just everyone chasing the dollar.
Yep- in the pro's there are salary caps. Kentucky fucking women's hoops has no such thing apparently.
At least Kenny posted a really nice thank you to all the fans and support from VT over the years
/ssss
I foolishly listened to the press conference to hear him shout out the VT fanbase but it never happened
But... But... But family
So to summarize... Kenny is a liar and Hunter is there to ride his coattails.
I'm not going to bash Hunter when Kenny is literally [going to be?] his father-in-law.
Personally speaking, I'm not rocking anything other than O&M. If I need to keep the peace with the family and the fans, I just wear something generic, but I'm not disgracing myself with any other team colors.
That's not an option if you want to make a living in athletics
Is that what Hunter is doing? I don't see his name on any list that shows Brooks' new staff. The only thing I think he's currently on a list for is enrollment at VT...
Brooks hasn't named any assistant coaches that I am aware of. Right now the site shows Brooks and five players for 2024-2025. If Hunter isn't pursuing playing professionally overseas than I could surely see him being named as one of Brooks on campus (not recruiting) coaches or as a Graduate Assistant.
Let's be honest. Cattoor has always said he wanted to be a coach when he was finished playing. I imagine he tries out for a G league team. If he doesn't get it, being a GA or an assistant to the assistant coach for Brooks is not a bad place.
apparently CMY only has 2 out of 5 assistant positions filled.
Three. Byers, Giltner and Webster
Brooks only had two.
Both were allowed up to 5 starting this season.
So KB confirmed ACC is a bad wagon to get hitched to, eh?
Kenny's comments all but confirmed we will not have a seat at the p2.
How will Whit spin this one
I think it signals that there is a lot of anxiety likely within the VT admin about getting a P2 invite. From Brooks perspective, if we miss out on the P2 then the ACC is a sinking ship. And in the interim (until we get the P2 invite or not), VT is dedicating the bulk of its resources to football and not other sports.
Even if that's true, I find it a bit weird that he would think staying at VT would diminish his value. Yes he's getting more money now (but apparently we would match), I think the risk is that if he doesn't establish success in the next 3-5 years, he could be dropped, or just stay at VT and keep building on his success and then at the collapse, make the change and say "look at my success with such shitty support"
I mean, unless his fear is that NIL and the P2 would poach so badly it would expose him, but with the current system he had a high seeded team and a what, top 6 recruiting class? Just hard to make sense unless he believes it's going to collapse in the very short term
He's making sure it collapses in the short term
he stated in the uk press co ference he is lookong forward to the resources consistently bringing in better recruits than what he could get at vt
Call me selfish, but I hope he fails miserably there
I won't. Again, if he was able to pull at top 6 class here, how much improvement is there? You're going to be behind LSU and USCe and then probably UCONN? So what potential is there?
I also think Brooks' stock is never going to be higher than it is now coming off two great seasons and having players like Kitley and Georgia. In all likelihood if he stayed, VT takes a big step back next year anyhow. In the macro sense I think he's right about the P2 uncertainty and status of the ACC, but I think he's also being a bit disingenuous - now was honestly the perfect time for him to bolt to greener pastures from the perspective of his career.
100% accurate.
I posted something similar in the original thread and was quickly countered that "Brooks has the #6 class coming in"
Well, TX A&M just had the #1 Recruiting class 2 years ago and Jimbo Fisher is....oh....yeah.
Brooks was never going to be more valued and he had a Program willing to promise him the moon and back up the Brinks truck. Even if he fails miserably, he will be financially secure for quite some time.
Not sure. Strack is showing signs she could be better than Kitley (hard to imagine). While King was definitely going to leave with Kitley. Amoore and Lexie could have been a killer combo.
He had the team he needed for next year. Even with freshmen it was as high a level of talent as he has ever had.
sadly I think the correct statement is "he has the team he needs for next year"
If we ever do make the P2, though, I will take every joy in VT kicking the shit out of Kentucky in WBB.
Coach Brooks was an employee of Virginia Tech. No more, no less.
It's hard as a diehard Virginia Tech fan with deep emotional/financial/nostalgiac ties to our school to see that perspective.
It doesn't matter to Brooks if he is wearing a VT pullover or a uk pullover. (It was mentioned Coach Beamer was out the door for unc except some last minute antics.... )
Brooks is a great Coach, WAS a great employee for VT, for which he was well reimbursed. But if I stock for Lowe's and the Home Depot offers a better deal, I'm switching stores and putting on the red and yellow apron the next day.
Does it suck? Yes. Does it leave VT in a crappy situation? Yes....
We were spoiled with Beamer,and others. But, coaches will come and go, either because they under or over performed. EXTREMELY rarely will it be because they retired after 29 years.
Now it's time to hire the next great VT employee...
The kool-aid is strong with this one...
For 8 years he preached "family" and he couldn't even be bothered to say "thanks". Whenever I've changed jobs I thank my coworkers, customers, etc. This is no different. Hokie fans were his customers and he very clearly showed he never respected us.
Exactly.
No matter how shitty the job/place, I was raised to never burn bridges because you never know what might happen.
This^^^
How hard is it to post something like Georgia did. Hell, he has plenty of money, he could have paid sometime to write it for him. He left for more money and what he feels is a better opportunity. I do not fault him for that. Just post something thanking the place he just left. I mean even the football players under Fuente that couldn't wait to leave posted a thank you to the fans.
Life's greatest lesson right here. NEVER burn any bridge- any bridge. It's a small world out there. Relationships are everything.
I said it early on in Fuente's tenure that he might want fan support and catering to them cause when you have a bad year no one wants to fire a nice guy that's had a number of good years. It's why I really hope Pry does well because he gets it. He understands the relationships and that fans, administration, staff and students all matter to make the football team work.
Now where is Fuente? There are tons of places ready to give him a chance even though he can coach at the G5 level at minimum.
NEVER burn any bridge- any bridge.
This is funny / ironic given your penchant for hot takes on here. I'm not knocking you for those because I do appreciate many of them and do the same.
However, there are plenty of bridges out there worth burning. I burned multiple of them at my former job, who had illegally withheld nearly $10,000 worth of sales commission checks to me. When I approached my manager about it, he said to deal with it. The owner told me, "I don't care, I do whatever I want." I looked into a lawsuit but the lawyer said the payoff wouldn't cover the court fees. He did confirm their sales contract with their 1099s to be very illegal.
I burned that bridge with them and 7 years later I would tell them off, right to their faces, again right now if I could.
As William Wallace once said.... burn it.
Report them to the IRS. There is whistleblower money out there.
Thank you! Had no idea this was a thing. I'd love to stick it to them.
In case anyone is wondering, the company is called POP Yachts / POP Sells. Do NOT buy anything from them. Or sell through them. The reviews speak for themselves.
If you win, they should also pay the court and legal fees.
I'd have consulted another lawyer. Someone will likely take it on contingency and get some kind of settlement.
I also believe reporting them to the NLRB is absolutely free. Early in my career when I was still hourly I worked at a company that decided that they were going to pay regular time and not time and a half for overtime. Someone at the company reported them (no, it wasn't me) and that was changed real quick.
I still get paid regular time for overtime. But that was explained at employment and my benefits are different than the hourly with time and half overtime employees. Much better than the salary overtime exempt people.
Well, within reason. The only work bridge I ever burnt was walking out of Dominos Pizza after 8 long-ago days, because I wasn't getting paid enough to tolerate the shift leader screaming at me in the middle of the day on a Tuesday about something completely out of my control.
But for a real job? Absolutely right.
Historical footage of Beard leaving Dominos
Hahaha, if only.
kenny leaving like
I wish I knew the context behind this gif. I'd say it's AI, but the hands look too good.
It's actually reversed from what was on the show. They were singing "Where is Thumbkin?"
Haven't seen it mentioned on TKP yet, but if I'm not mistaken, VT announced his departure before he had time to go public with it himself. I don't think that's standard. We've all got the O&M glasses on, but "respect" here is a 2-way street.
Meh, the fans aren't the administration.
Even if it happened EXACTLY like this, Brooks can say farewell to the fans.
IDK if you've been into a Home Depot lately (or, ever?) but their aprons are orange and white. I can't ever remember seeing red and yellow aprons
Was there last week.
But I'm color blind.
Now I have to rethink everything.....
I was about to say after reading that....I think you might see colors differently than the rest of us.
Came to say the same thing. VT fans clearly just don't understand that these jobs are jobs to coaches. It's been this way at least since the days of Bear Bryant.
I think everyone associated with VT got extremely spoiled by Beamer and didn't realize how miraculous is was that he succeeded AND stayed. He's the only coach I think we've had, or will ever have, where the job was much more than just about the money and looking for the next step.
Brooks' departure is just another harsh reminder that this is a business to the coaches, they don't give a crap about loyalty, and that any success we have in any individual season should be looked on as such. It was a great season, not the building of a program because the architect of the program could turn heel at any time.
I do think that Beamer set unrealistic expectations for the fan base in a variety of ways. I believe that the fanbase's unwillingness to donate and invest is directly tied to our image of Beamer always doing more with less.
That's probably our athletics culture in a nutshell. Do more with less. Not "we're family" or "this is home"
I'm not sure why, but I suspect Greenberg would have been a lifer here, but for the pink slip.
Methinks Greenberg and his thinking we ahead of their time. I think he knew what needed to be done, was overly vocal with the AD about it, and when they wouldn't listen he got shown the door.
Just another example of how different the NIL at Kentucky is. This single concert is expected to bring their NIL Collective $4.5M.
Source: Sea of Blue
OK, so when is VT going to host an MMA event or a WWE event? Need to reverse cash in on NIL.
If you want to enter the transfer portal, you have to survive 1 minute in the ring with Vitor Belfort.
Lol... KY... we read at a 2nd grade level, food comes from Dollar General, and you gotta drive an hour to the nearest hospital, BUT we got John Legend for a football fundraiser!!!
This is also SWVA, minus the John Legend concert. At least Lexington is surrounded by horse money.
Blacksburg is surrounded by....... abandoned textile and furniture factories?
How do you make a small fortune with horses?
Start with a large fortune!
Bingo
Swva has its share of Dollar Generals and underserved rural areas for sure. But it's nowhere near the same as rural KY. And KY's GDP is barely a third of Virginia's and growing at a significantly slower rate.
Kentucky is a P2 conference member when it comes to Dollar General.
Without Toyota and a generous federal government, Kentucky would be economically /developmentally indistinguishable from a 3rd world country.
You're definitely leaving out Ford, GE appliances, UPS, and Humana...
Yeah it was a lazy shit post but the underlying thesis is good. UK is a 'meh' school in a poor state where Louisville is the economic engine. Aside from that one 3rd-tier metro, you have a Toyota plant and.... a really long drive to the hospital. But hey... they support the shooty-hoops well. Seems like a nice place for talented kids from New York City to spend a few months.
Just saw a post that the Morehead State basketball coach has a clause in his contract that requires him to pay the school $4000 per player if he takes a new job and players follow him in the portal. Pretty genius on the part of that AD. Imagine that at P5 level.
UK paid $750K. I think they wouldn't bat an eye at an extra $40K to get 10 VT players via the portal.
And really, I don't think that type of clause stands a chance legally. Courts would find that such a clause unduly restricts the players right to transfer and was not agreed to by the player. For the most part, you cannot really put limits on party that was not apart of the agreement. There are a few exceptions, but that's generally true.
Agreed--that clause violates public policy.
You would have to make a claim that you paid them to recruit and the recruit is the product of their work, which is owned by the employer..... but that has a huge hole that you have to then say the recruit can be owned at all... which.... bad argument.
Maybe you'd have a chance at some kind of tortuitous interference damages.
Definitely a bad argument. The 13th amendment would prohibit that.
lmao, if Kenny waited a week, he probably could've landed at Tennessee
rather be at Kentucky. UTenn is a hellhole of stupid expectations.
hope he gets buyers remorse
LMAOOOO had me at first
LOL he will forever be Ken-dawg to me now.
Ken-dawg is honest about it.
More proof God is a Hokie...
This was Kentucky's campus today.
Yeah, we are getting pretty slammed by this storm. Round 2 is coming in a few hours
Had that moment hoping it was Kenny and not a student.
As upset as I am / we are about the way kenny left, I think wishing physical harm is way over the line.
Not physical harm, but physical embarrassment
Just wait until his first game against USC
I hope UVA grad Dawn Staley's team beats Kentucky 100 to 30 and Georgia Amoore has all 30 of those points and the rest of the team looks lost and confused and he gets fired half way through the season. This man has garnered more hate in two weeks than Justin Fuente did in 6 years. If the NCAA gods have their cruel joke and we play them in the challenge next year the Hatin On thread will be one of epic proportions!
That's because he pulled the ultimate dick move then gonna take every last crumb we have left in the cupboard
maybe it's already been pointed out and I missed it, but my in-laws noted that in his introductory press conference at UK he said essentially the same things he said in his introductory press conference at VT when he was hired here. He just used the same script.
Adlibbing is for amateurs. You've got to respect his professionalism.
Hey, if you have a good schtick, you schtick with it.
I don't blame him for leaving. I don't even blame him for using the rules to his advantage to take the players he wants to his new school. It sucks but I don't blame him. But to leave without a presser or even a social media post? Why? Who or what pissed him off that bad?
I do think I'd rather be neighbors with Justin than Kenny. Justin seems way more genuine than Kenny right now. Justin's personality sucked for a P5 head coach, but as a friend, I respect the authenticity.
If you like BBQ, fishing, Beer, good ole boy stuff- yes you want Justin as a neighbor
Buzz Williams did the same thing. Mike Young does not get near enough credit for scrambling to keep guys like Bede and Nolley here at that time.