And you say: 'what'???
What is the very 1st thing that comes to mind...
"salt" and most say: 'pepper'...
"Peanut butter" and most go for: 'jelly'...
etc..., et al,...
Sooooooooo, I say: "Pry's Culture" and you say... 'what'(s)❓
🤔
b.street
Forums:
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.
Comments
A lot of bark (saying all the right things. Winning the off season. Etc.), but not a lot of bite (soft, undisciplined, disorganized).
That is how I would describe "Pry's culture"
...needs some wins
A fair question. I would say most of the "culture" has been built around returning to VT's roots of the Beamer era. I think we've seen good signs in recruiting Virginia and surrounding areas, but when it comes to the field we haven't recaptured the consistent, suffocating defense.
Winning culture is just that- winning. In order for us to win on defense, we need better players- full stop. We need better than Sam Brumfield. Simply is what it is. We need better than Josh Fuga- a great 6th year hokie who is what he is- a meh D1 DT. Full stop. We aren't going to magically start winning here until we get better talent. No, Chris Marve is not a top 15 coordinator and neither is Bowen, but we still need better players. Watch the games- which I know you do. Pry has worked his ass off on building better recruiting relationships- now we need to land a bunch of better guys- portal or high school.
How do we get better players? Pay them! Lets add a talent acquisition fee on to ticket prices or something. Seems like other schools would hop on board with the idea...
VT is not and has never been the unicorn our fans think we are. How did Schiano get a great running back that is going to rush for 200 yards Saturday? Magic? Rutgers was football siberia for 70 years. VT is not special. There is nothing keeping us from getting better players - nothing. We have to do what scores of other teams do- evaluate them and get them signed. literally 60 teams do this- not 5... We have always had this complex that there are just too many hurdles at VT. Simply not true. Go get better guys. If Pry can't do that, there is someone out there than can get enough talent to beat Vandy. Trust me.
Do you think the defense is operating anywhere near its ceiling (given the personnel)?
I don't, but I would love to be convinced otherwise.
I agree 100% that Chris Marve is not Tom Landry as a defensive coordinator. Yes, I get it. Do we need more talent to not have interesting games against what will be 2 win ODU? you know the answer.
Right there with you. I don't buy that we don't have the personnel to be moderately successful on defense this season.
I think we should field a top 40ish SP+ defense by end of year. I think we have the talent to do that. I would be quite impressed if we finished inside the top 30.
Right. That's why I didn't say we have established a winning culture yet.
I do think we are getting better players than the latter half of the Fuente era. I think that is starting to pay off, and hopefully will continue to do so as we fix what was functionally a G5 roster inherited from Fuente.
I think both Bowen and Marve are in question so far. They are both green, and neither has proven themselves beyond replacement so far. That may be the first tough test of Pry's tenure as a head coach (also green).
Maybe they can prove themselves? Maybe not. The rest of this season may decide one or both of their futures.
On the players, I think one of our biggest issues is OL, which even in the portal era, is very difficult to turnover quickly. We really need the HS recruited OL we have recently, and have coming in the future, fix that room more permanently.
However, I think it is unfair to criticize too many of portal acquisitions: Antwaun Powell-Ryland and Aeneas Peebles, for example, were valuable P5 players that we swooped when the circumstances presented themselves (coaching changes). Ali Jennings, Jaylin Lane, Daquan Felton and Stephen Gosnell are ALL P5 quality players and I still think we have one of the better receiving rooms in the country. Unfortunately, the OL, the play calling, and possibly Drones, have limited the upside they have been able to show so far this year. However, we have seen plenty from each of them to know they are legitimate P5 players. Some may even make it to the league. Bhayshal Tuten is another one.
That said, other coaches/schemes have shown the ability to mitigate some of the OL issues better than we have seen at many times under this regime. That is a legitimate criticism.
I do agree that there is more talent in the starting 22 than the end of the Fuente era- no question. However to your other point, the last couple Fu OL's were better than this one.
I really hoped we were past saying "Full stop" anymore.
I'll take 3 full stops to do away with "Fact!"
Say what you will about the early-game woes, but Pry's teams have been resilient. They've overcome bad starts to pull off some wins, and they didn't fold last season after the 2-4 start.
The players seem to believe in Pry, and they want to be in Blacksburg. And as far as I know, not a single one of them has threatened to punch a teammate for trying to win a game. They also don't seem to spend a whole lot of time in court.
The pass blocking and run defense might not be very good right now, but I'd say the culture on the team is pretty damn strong.
^^^this^^^ is not the worst take...
...they coulda let go b4 @Liberty even... yah; Eye feel this.
+1,
b.street
?
Marshall, 2018
Quick summary of the situation here - As Recounted by Tre Turner at the time.
That was the point where I bailed on Fuente 100%.
Pry is moving towards VTs roots, but not quickly enough.
I like him. But I'd like to see more progress and discipline.
I assume you mean discipline on the field, because historically off the field the Beamer teams had their fair share of issues.
I definitely meant on the field.
To be honest, getting back to VTs roots I meant a focus on strong defenses and special teams.
By discipline I was talking about things like not sending out two people with the same freaking number.
This might not be a popular take, but looking back on those really good Beamer/Foster teams, they had some mean, tough dudes. And I don't mean on the field. Jimmy Turk had his hands full back then. It bothers me as much as the next Hokie fan when the players get in legal trouble, but it seemed to come with the territory of having mean and tough dudes in the trenches.
My uncle always said if he ever coached college football, he would recruit out of the local jail. Find young guys with athletic talent that just didn't have the best upbringing and got sidetracked in life because of trouble with the law.
Would it be legal or ethical? Hell no. Who cares? This is big boy D1 Football. Any town like Blacksburg or Knoxville or Tuscaloosa has a police force full of college football fans. They can overlook a few things right along with the university. Let's go win a championship with dudes that the opposition is literally afraid of.
Beamer did what was necessary.
No regrets.
Correct- 1. Steal some guys from Welch- raise the talent, get guys like PJ Preston and Cornell Brown. 2. Find the best players in Virginia- have Cav and Stiney go in to the 757- get ballers- and not necessary choir boys. Beamer was a second chance guy, which helped.
Inconsistent preparation and limited coaching bandwidth.
Were any of yall around for the early Beamer days?
While Pry wasn't hampered by scholarship limits like Beamer, in a way he was with the roster he inherited. He has had to rebuild from scratch while also trying to honor the scholarships of the existing players.
Add to that the damage the Fuente Regime had done to relationships with in-state recruiting and I'd almost say Pry may even have it harder.
The transfer portal has made it a bit easier to get a jumpstart on things, but that's not a cure all. Those players are in the transfer portal for a reason. If they were the next Michael Vick, they wouldn't be in the transfer portal.
It's still going to take time to get things built up to having quality depth. It takes multiple years of practice, strength & conditioning and depth to build good Lines on both sides of the ball. That's what makes teams great no matter how many skill players you have.
We still have holdovers from the Fuente era on the lines. A majority of our starters all over the field are transfers. We have yet to really see Pry's recruits hit the field yet for the most part.
In the next few years is when we'll really start to learn something. These last few years are Band-aid years just trying to survive and get things going in the right direction.
Today's generation is all about instant gratification. There used to be Heinz Ketchup commercials that said "good things come to those that wait", today's generation could learn a thing or two about that.
All that to say, the culture is heading back in the right direction. The results haven't come yet, but they will in time. The internal culture within the program is night and day different from the Fuente days, and that's understating it. That'll pay huge dividends down the line.
Everyone take a breath and step back off the ledge. Things could be much worse, we could be FSU!
I'll start with, I agree with most everything you said. People are jumping on Pry's case pretty quick BUT football today changes faster than it has at any point in history a bad season or two - losing a donor base* - doesn't just look bad it has compounding effects. I don't think there's a way to put a number on the extra year we hung on to Fuente but I'd be pretty confident we our opportunity cost would have covered the extra payout money.
We're at a pretty pivotal point in VT football history. The ACC is teetering on collapse and we've been a basement dweller for a good chunk of recent history - I like Pry as the head whistle but what the staff is putting onto the field right now in year 3 is not elevating Tech football and I'd be hard pressed to say we should renew any coordinator contracts after this season.
* I could write a whole different post on how much easier it is to lose a donor base now but when the programs asks for money at every stop and then fail to see any return it gets old much more quickly than a classic annual donation to HokieClub
It's 2024... we grinded BC into the dust last year and we finished 7-6. This year they are 100% better- and will likely beat us. brand new coach- first year. Are you saying O Brien was left a loaded roster? nope. He went in the portal and got guys, and turned it around in one off season. This isn't 1987.
Also- This is simply not true - " If they were the next Michael Vick, they wouldn't be in the transfer portal"... Do you need me to list the high profile, former 5 stars that have landed in the transfer portal?? Including the #1 pick in this years NFL draft? Next Michael Vicks has 100% landed in the transfer portal in recent years.
Saying a team we play in a month is likely to beat us based off how they've played thru 3 weeks is pretty presumptious. After 3 weeks last year we all would have said the same exact thing and then what happened? We got better and beat them by 26.
I know we all watch the games and clearly this isnt a well oiled machine right now, but I think you'd be lying to yourself if you didn't think there are improvements from the beginning of last season. Obviously we all hoped we'd look like a sleeper playoff team that was running smooth like the end of last year, and do I wish the coaches could get us in a position earlier in the season to win games yes, but they will get better and we will be better as the year goes on. The hope is that improvement comes fast and we can win games like this week which are the critical points in the season that alter a 8-9 win season from a 5-6 win season.
Yeah, BC signed a good coach. O'Brien has been around the block a few times. BC has three former NFL head coaches on staff. So I'd expect them to do OK.
Maybe not a great comparison, as it's not the typical situation.
Pry always said this would take a while. Yeah, I'd like it to go faster, but I'll settle for it going in the right direction.
Just saying that the days of taking 5 years to build a linebacking corps are over. No school is going to have that level of patience anymore. Also not seeing any former NFL HEAD coaches on the BC Staff...
Elko at duke? How fast was that???? From crap to creme of the crop in one year. Coaching matters, and squeezing talent out of players is a re thing. Toughness can beat talent if you bully them and keep the opponents off of offense
from crap to creme of the crop and then what? Elko was there for two years and the second was nothing special.
yes i want to win, no he isn't the magical "but but but Elko's doing it" example that everyone was saying in 2022 when we were bad and they were good.
I was just saying elko made a quick turn around . 2nd year was 8 and 5, certainly better than my Alma mater.
Elko was 7-5
Duke football team was 8-5. Want to keep going, still better than tech in second year
O'Brien was actually left a "program" in much better shape than what Pry inherited. I'm not sure you realize how much Fuente and co gutted the program in culture, in talent, in relationships, etc. It wasn't just fixing a few little things and get a few transfers.
And comparing Mike Vick to Bryce Young is so laughable I don't know where to start. They are not even in the same league. There have been good players in the portal, but those are few and far between and none of what I would consider a game changer of that level. You're also not going to build a cohesive O-line through the portal either.
Edit: I'd like to also add I don't care how many stars someone had coming out of high school. Just because they were given an arbitrary ranking doesn't make them an all star the rest of their life. There have been plenty of "5 star" busts over the years but they disappeared into anonymity. Now they enter the transfer portal and they are 5 star transfers again.
I was comparing Vick to Caleb Williams- the number 1 pick in the draft. Bryce Young was never in the portal. The fact is that there are scores of high level players in the transfer portal every year- that is not my opinion. That is a fact. Your fist sentence is also very debatable. very. BC paid Jeff Hafley a ton of cash to go away. There is a reason for that.
Other portal players of note: CJ Stroud, Jared Verse, Joe Burrow, Quinn Ewers, Travis Hunter, Jamyr Gibbs.. to name a few. When Bama, UGA and OSU stop using the portal, call me.
Same difference. Caleb Williams isn't in the same league either. I didn't say there wasn't any talent in the portal, but the vast majority aren't gonna be program changers. The ones that are are gonna go to your Bama, UGA, and OSUs first.
I know how hard headed you are so there's no since arguing with you because I'm pretty sure you enjoy it. You're always right and everyone else is always wrong. I was just trying to give some perspective from behind the curtain, take it or leave it.
Fucking surreal.. Cam Ward any good at Miami this year? or is that another outlier? Mike Vick ever win the Heisman? nope. But both Williams and Young did- but they suck- and only were highly rated in high school so it doesn't- fucking laughable. Both were better college players than Vick. Look it up- don't take my stubborn word for it. They aren't impact players as they win heismans and Nattys. Was Joe Burrow any good for LSU? another outlier. CJ Stroud any good? or was he just good in high school? Fucking laughable "no impact players in the portal"- lolololololol. Jared Verse any good for FSU as he kicked our ass up and down the field last year? VT's highest rated guy this year was Peebles- 194. So there were 193 better guys we should have gone after.- none of them real impact players I'm sure. Caleb Williams has played 2 NFL games. He had better stats than Vick in college by far and won the heisman. So after 2 games, it's laughable to compare him to Vick? why? because you are a VT fan- nothing more. Funny.
Are you like this in real life, or is it just an Internet schtick?
In real life - where Bryce young threw for twice as many TDs in ONE season than Vick did in his career? Is that the real life you are referring to? Where Joe Burrow was in the portal and had arguably the greatest season a college QB had in 50 years? That real life? Is that what you are talking about? Or bullshit like "there are no impact players in the portal and if you disagree its an internet schtick, after I provide facts"? Is that what you mean by real life vs. the internet? Cam Ward isn't an impact player? Is this what you are talking about?
I'm not commenting on what you say, but rather how you say it.
He's right though... I agree he can be abrasive sometimes, but other folks bending over backwards to say that all the transfer QBs aren't difference makers is silly. Several first overall picks, several Heisman winners, even more first round picks.
Those are all great examples. And who is to say we didn't reach out to the other 193 better guys? Why would they come to VT? We don't have the money, the winning culture and the opportunity for any of them to get the visibility that they want to build their brand. We will never be that. No matter what league we are in. Never. Full Stop.
Caleb Williams got drafted first overall. He was anticipated to be drafted first overall when he transferred. You can argue that you don't like his skill set as much or whatever but the idea that he's not an impact player is goofy.
Kyler Murray, Baker Mayfield. Both outstanding college QBs who went 1 overall in the draft.
As a 2016 grad who didn't grow up a Hokies fan, I appreciate the perspective!
I was around before Charley Coffey.
that's is when I showed up at VT, the start of the Charley Coffey era and the Don Strock aerial show.
Solid recruiting, mediocre-at-best coaching, and elite coach speak.
Cheerleader1❓
b.street
Greg Schiano posts in the wrong thread.
I think Pry is the coach we need. I'm willing to give him more time, especially if new and more experienced coordinators are needed.
If after that he's still vanilla, then I think a discussion is to be had.
Pry has had experienced coordinators on both sides of the ball in coaching positions, but not P4 experienced (except Pry himself). On D it's Pry and Quinn. On O it was B. Glenn and now it's B.
KeyDavis.It's troubling that Pry's success as both a DC and LB coach hasn't translated into success at VT. VT was 42nd in SP+ defense last year, which is between mediocre and good.
Brent Davis had major success as Army's OC, but that's such a unique situation. I do think he's provided a lot of input on how to specifically scheme for various defenses via the run game. We'll see if he and Bowen develop a successful scheme for Rutgers, who currently has the 21st ranked defense via SP+ (but still too early to be reliable).
What's also interesting is that VT has better SP+ rankings in both Offense and Defense for 2024 as compared to their final rankings in 2023. Not sure what that means, if anything, this early in the season.
Offense 2023: 62
Offense 2024: 44
Defense 2023: 42
Defense 2024: 35
Brent.....Davis?
Indeed. Thanks. I'm really bad with names. And it shows in about 50% of my posts.
wrong Brent..
Yep. Thanks.
SP+ has a preseason ranking that
heavilymight weight returning production we started O 43 D 32I haven't seen any weights for any features in his model, so maybe it's heavy on returning production. Idk. In any case, three games of play hasn't caused it to diverge much.
I did make an assumption its listed as 1. in their inputs so I figured its weighted but that very well could be an unweighted list.
Yeah we haven't moved that much and just at quick glance not a whole lot of teams have (unless your name rhymes with Florida State), I need to dig into SP+ updates before I can really have a conversation about it, I really don't understand the metrics very often.
Bill C says his preseason SP+ rankings are " are based on three primary factors: returning production (final rankings for which you can find at the bottom of this piece), recent recruiting and recent history." I don't know if they are evenly weighted or some are heavier than others. It's a tricky model for sure, but returning production is at least one key feature within the model.
(And maybe we're arguing semantics, because I view things in model numbers. To me, "heavily weighted" would mean weighted more heavily than the other factors. Perhaps "heavily weighted" to you means it's one of three key factors of the model. We definitely don't know the actual weights, but we do know it is a key factor of but 3 factors.)
Don't "weights weigh the same"? (ducks)
Damn I was editing my above comment and then going to reply this.
But yeah we're on the same page I shouldn't have added the word heavily - that part was a large assumption on my part.
Twitter convo I had with Bill years ago - in week 7, the SP+ was still 50% preseason projections. Because that made it more accurate.
Eye say weight 4 noles 2 fire norvell and eyed hire him. Feyer bowen and marve. As for bstreet, feyer him too
OK. that's pretty funny....