Pry calls Kyron Drones, Bhayshul Tuten and Mansoor Delane questionable this week. Delane went down late in the Syracuse game. Drones and Tuten didn't dress.Said backup QB Collin Schlee should be good to go this week. Nicked up a couple times last week. #Hokies— Andy Bitter (@AndyBitterVT) November 5, 2024
Clemson is going to be a much tougher test for this very banged up offense. Hope Bowen is able to scheme up another great game plan, because this one doesn't look pretty on paper.
Forums:
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.
Comments
Tuten did dress at Syracuse right? Thought I saw him dressed at the beginning of the game and then in street clothes later on. A little misdirection from the coaches.
I remember him having his pads on in the first half
I was pretty impressed with Schlee and what Bowen drew up for him and the backups. It's the abysmal defensive play and Marve's inability to adjust that I'm worried about.
The defense has been bad enough with a healthy Delane too...
I've been pretty disappointed with our DB play under Cheetah and PP. I remember in the Foster years we have very physical corner play, were always making a play on the ball or very sound coverage at the least. Anymore it seems very passive, they loose inside/outside leverage pretty often and get beat, and are hardly ever in a position to make a play for an interception or even deflection. More often than not, you have to just hope the QB misses or the WR drops it against our secondary.
Another thing I miss from the Foster glory days is how well our defensive players would tackle. Maybe these days it's a by-product of the tackling safety practices & rules, but it just seems like we have way too much hitting that tries to knock the ball carrier off balance to fall down and way too much arm tackling. Both of those have lead to so many missed tackles and/or YAC.
I think this is the case... feels like every fanbase complains about their defense's tackling and thinks it was better 20+ years ago.
Offenses are way harder to defend now. The rules also benefit them. Player safety efforts also mean that less live tackling is practiced.
Yeah and in general, I think the best offenses beat the best defenses in a head to head 9 times out of 10. Offensive play in this game has progressed to a point that defenses either haven't caught up to yet, or never will. A truly elite, brick wall defense is a rare thing anymore.
I tend to agree. But also, if refs just enforce the ineligible man 3 yards downfield rule, the RPO becomes tempered, and - while I agree you'll never seen a 'brick wall defense' ever again - I think you could see a team that goes through a season never giving up more than three TDs per game.
Agree with this and all of the above. Back in the day, I felt like a truly elite defense could shut down a good offense. Today, the best defenses can only slow down good offenses, but they're still going to score. It's just a matter of slowing the other team's offense and being able to have a good offense yourself that's key to winning today. It's an offensive game completely now.
Today good defenses can still get stops when they need them. We don't do that. Ever. That's a sign of not good defense
Agree. We should be able to get more out of our defense that we are. It is a very poor defense schematically I think - very bland. And not very aggressive play or playcalling from the defense either.
Didn't UGA sets the record for fewest points allowed like 2 years ago?
I prefer to think offensive WR coaches are just slathering their players with Crisco so they don't get tackled.
Hmmmm, here i was lathering myself in crisco cause I lile the feel of it
That's exactly what my wife said when I did it!
hahahaha! leg for the laugh.
Might be a blessing in disguise if it makes Marve think that he can't play press man when he's up 18 late in the 3Q against a pass first team and his own team lucky to have as many points with a bunch of backups.
These injuries are just more reasons why this season is turning into one giant suck!
well
... dang it.
Let them sit and get healthy. I have no expectations of a win vs. Clemson. Just finish up strong in the last 2 games, get to 7-5, win a piss-ant bowl game and get to 8-5. About the best I think we can hope for. Maybe Clemson plays poorly or maybe we play lights out, but practically-speaking, don't see a plausible path to a win against Clemson. Just get healthy, stay healthy for the season end and get to work for the offseason. Make the changes needed then.
I'm not at all going to root for losses but I am concerned that Pry would point to an 8-win season as an excuse for not making staff changes this offseason.
We'll see. He was quite critical of Marve in the most recent presser. Literally called out defensive playcalling. I think changes will come.
Good to hear. I'm used to coaches that aren't super self aware and willing to make necessary changes. Fuente stuck with Corn til the end and Beamer didn't move on from Stinespring until...2012?
Regardless of how we finish, if Pry replaces Marve and brings in someone like an associate head coach that isn't a moron on game planning and management I'll have faith again.
Right now I'm just waiting on Babcock and Pry to be replaced in the next few years and I'm sad.
I don't buy any staff changes until they actually happen. And when they do, let's not forget that the guy who hired Marve in the first place is going to be hiring his replacement. I won't have my faith restored in Pry simply if he decides to shake up the staff. That new staff will need to prove it on the field before gaining my faith back.
Trust is gained in drops and lost in buckets. This team is bad. Especially the defense. I won't have any faith that Pry can fix that until he proves capable of so doing
The marve issue is interesting. Pry could help out with defensive calls, why doesn't he reingage and help with this? There are many coaches that call the offense or defense. He sure as he'll isn't paying attention to the clock, maybe he could insert himself into the defensive game plan. I just don't get it, maybe he could put that pad down and actually do something with his time on the sideline.
Marve and the defense struggle at times, for God's sake help out .
Meh, you need to let people succeed and fail on their own merits.
Also, I would assume there's operational challenges to changing responsibilities in the middle of a game.
I understand letting people succeed and fail, I owned 2 businesses. You can't let the goal slip away, you must be able to step in and fix issues. Maybe you don't fix them in game, but you can fix it for next week. Defense is pry's strong point, he has called the plays in the past, and as many coaches do, he can help to fix the issues at hand.
We shall see if Pry has Fuente levels of Hubris. Beamer was VT coach for life- so he could tell Jason in Arlington and Whit or Weaver to fuck themselves if they wanted staff changes. He had earned that clout. Fuente was just arrogant - he earned nothing- but he didn't fire Corny because he was too arrogant to. Let's see where Pry falls on this scale. If he wants to keep coaching here being 1-11 in close games, he better not be too arrogant or he will be gone as well.
Pry made a point to talk about the need to be willing to have tough conversations with staff, time to see if that was all Coach speak or if he meant it.
Edit: he made this point at his introductory press conference
Per David Cunningham, Drones and Tuten practiced with the ones today: https://x.com/therealdcunna/status/1854285144732934557
Doesn't matter imo. I didn't think we stood a chance vs Clemson before the season when I thought we were actually going to be decent. I certainly dont think we stand a chance now after seeing the team be bad more often than not.
This football team stinks. The offense is okay, but inconsistent. The defense is terrible. The in game coaching is laughable. Pry's end of half management is what I would expect from a drunk 80 year old playing ncaa on Playstation for the first time and fumbling with the controller, holding it upside down and just generally having no idea what's going on.
Time to change drinks.
In year 3 Pry is pressing start and looking threw the menu to call time out instead of using select
Wait, you can do that?
I was waiting to see you sign it "okay, Boomer".
...stay off my lawn!!!
2024 Clemson might be a lot more beatable than they look on paper. Their wins are against App St and the 5 worst ACC teams based on FPI. Kinda like us last season we beat up on the bad teams and struggled against anyone with a semblance of a pulse.
My biggest concern is that we're closer to the bottom 5 FPI teams than we are to Louisville.
All true. But here is what is going to happen. VT's 2 best offensive players are hurt- as always. So we will get off to a slow start on offense- again as per usual. Our defense may in fact keep Clemson in check so its a close game for a quarter. Then the VT 3 and outs start to flip field position, Clemson has a real QB and real offensive coaches, and they bust our defense for big plays. In the miracle we take a lead with 5 mins left and our defense MUST get a stop, they won't of course and we will lose. Either way, they are too deep, too talented, and have a hall of fame coach vs. a guy who is 1-11 in one score games and won't try to get a FG to win a game. We are not beating Clemson.
I think you are right, but I hope you are wrong. The spread on this game was a lot closer than I figured.
I hope I am 100% wrong. This would be the first victory for Pry over a good team if you think about it. I just don't see it. Best case the game is close- and you know how that will go at the end.
I think the thing to remember is that this isn't 2018 Clemson. Clemson got boat raced by Georgia and Louisville controlled the game against them last week. All of their other games have been against the worst teams in the ACC or OOC games against inferior competition. I still agree that they should clearly be favorites, but I can also see how VT can play this game close and be in contention so Pry can piss it away at the end.
Very true... but this IS 2012-2024 Virginia Tech though. Keep that in mind. May holes on the roster, sub par coaching, etc.
I was pretty surprised how optimistic the guys on Split Zone Duo were about Tech's chances this weekend (even while noting the potential impacts of Drones and Tuten's injuries). Apparently most of Clemson's defensive line is injured right now so that could be a good thing if Tuten is able to go.
We seemed to run the ball well even without Tuten last week. I think the offense can score unless we see them trot out a GT effort. We have to be able to make stops on defense. We seem to play well then fail to make any adjustments at halftime or in game. Stopping the run against a team that can't run isn't rocket science.
The offense- without drones and tuten was fine last week. And we lost. We needed the D to play well- hell- average in the second half for ONCE. ONE FUCKING GAME, and they couldn't do it. We are going to have big trouble against Clemson moving the ball. So again, our defense needs to play well. Eh..
Captain Contrarian here, showing up a bit late to the thread. I'm genuinely NOT trying to defend the team or the coaches. But I do feel the need to point out that our 4 losses are all by one score to teams that are a combined 25-9 this season. #4 Miami and Syracuse (#30 in the coaches poll) are a combined 15-2 this year, and both of those losses were last-second, in their stadiums, as was our overtime loss to #23 Vanderbilt.
I'm not happy with how the season has gone, but there is literally nothing in our resume to indicate that we should be blown out at home by Clemson. Also, Clemson doesn't have a single win against a good team this year.
Rutgers was atrocious though. They aren't good. We should feel bad about that one.
I appreciate your optimism, but the fact they are also coming off a loss makes me think we're gonna lose by at least three scores
If I can pull rank, perhaps be Major Contrarian, Felton caught that ball. We did not lose to Miami.
It should never have been ruled a catch on the field. That said, it should never have been overturned.
Allow me to express my contrarian eye on the initial statement in that first sentence.
That's fine. You're allowed to be incorrect. ;^)
Syracuse sucks. We dominated them for most of the game without our 2 best offensive players. I don't care what the polls say. We are their best win- easily. They are not in any way "good". Let's be real. And again if I came on this board before the year and asked "Yall cool with losing to Rutgers, Vandy, Cuse this year?" zero people would have said yes. zero.
Correct. The Syracuse loss will not end up being a good loss. Only Miami is a good loss. The Vandy loss is "understandable" post facto, but in all honestly, VT brought back a full roster of talent and coaches and should have been way more ready in that first game than Vandy having something like 30 transfers and 7 new coaches. VT wasn't. I was hopeful Rutgers was good, but they have been completely undressed in Big-10 competition.
I think Clemson is good but flawed. Meaning, they will beat any lower competition soundly but will also be beat soundly against any better competition.
Clemson and VT are both good at running the ball and bad at stopping the run. I honestly have no feel how it will go, but does seem like Clemson may have the better matchup because VT's defense is just so inept at times.
I don't think you're completely off base here, BUT the problem is not that we lost four 1-score games, it's how we lost four 1-score games.
If we lost these games because our guys just weren't good enough (secondary getting beat, blown tackles, line can't hold, etc) then we could talk about how it's a talent issue and Pry is working to fix that.
But 2 of these 4 close losses (Vandy and Miami) were straight up in-game coaching failures (duplicate numbers on the field, atrocious clock management). The other 2 were due to complete game strategy/playcalling gaffs.
VT fans could deal with being in year 3 and still recovering from the Fuente fiasco (ie; being in a talent deficit). But the way we lost these games signals a deeper issue that is more difficult to fix. That's why there is so much frustration and anxiety amongst the fan base.
I don't think they are tougher to fix, just a bit of learning.
I'm not happy with how we played this year at all. Having said that- I'm fine with Pry for year 4... sure, he's trying to recover from the idiots from Memphis who couldn't sign big and strong players. So year 4- fine. IF he loses to ODU- warning I'm going scorched earth. I would 100% be done with him at that point unless he wins a national title next year. Done.
here's where I am with Pry - he's made a lot of poor management decisions, particularly at the end of halves. With almost 3 years of evidence, it's hard for me to see any indicators that he's going to be a top tier head coach. He says the right things. He's a good culture fit and he seems to understand VT. But he just isn't winning on the field enough. And the way he's losing is maddening.
I don't think firing him this year is the right move. Unless he loses out, in which case, end of experiment, cut losses, move on. (I expect him to AT LEAST beat UVA. Duke will be a tough one but it's winnable. I don't think we can beat Clemson)
I DO think that Pry needs to make some tough staff changes this year, though. Bowen struggles early in the season - that needs to be addressed - on the plus side, he shows flashes. Our offense is capable of scoring 30 points on just about anyone. Consistency needs work but I think there's enough there to justify keeping him on staff a bit longer. Marve is pretty easily out-classed by just about every coach we go against (and, lets be honest, we're not going up against juggernauts) and our defense just hasn't made any progress in 3 years. Linebackers still look tentative and/or lost. DB play is shaky and the defensive line is boom or bust. When APR gets home we get huge plays but otherwise we're not really clogging up the LOS.
Pry gets one more year but if he doesn't make any staff changes and we have a similarly maddening 6 or 7 win campaign in 2025 then I don't see how anyone could justify keeping him employed. Pry can buy himself a little bit more time by firing Marve and hiring a DC who knows what he's doing but that 1-11 record in 1-score games isn't an accident. Pry isn't a good in-game coach right now. Could he improve? Maybe - but he's making bone-headed decisions that cost us games in year 3 so its hard for me to believe that he's going to be able to clean that up any time soon.
Exactly - because of how we've lost, fans believe that under Pry we will have an absolute ceiling at 6-8 wins, and that is depressing.
It's the truth man. He's at best Dave Dorean. At Best. He is not in any way shape or form a tier above that- Ferentz, Kiffin, Kelly, Franklin, Whittingham... in no universe is he 2 tiers above that- Smart, Day, Lanning, Sark, Dabo... At best he is Clawson, Dorean, Locksley. There is nothing- not one thing that indicates otherwise after 3 years here.
I think a lot of the problems that Pry is having are very fixable. If he can acknowledge that there are problems and devise a plan to correct them, that will be the measure of his ability to run our football program. I know things aren't what we want them to be. It's frustrating to see that we could have been more successful if not for some dumbass decisions, but at least we had the opportunity. That's something we didn't have with the previous staff. Figure out your pain points and make adjustments. Build on what's good, work on what's bad. And don't get complacent with the meh parts. Keep getting better and have better people. Win.
I'm at this point too. VT is losing bad ways and it is maddening, but also fixable. From his press conferences, we know Pry is introspective and actively tries to figure out how to fix things. I'm willing to let him try to fix it before I suggest there is a ceiling. But, it has to start this offseason, especially on the defensive side of the coaching staff.
In his first year, he was wise to repeat that this would take time to fix, especially with player personnel and recruiting. And he has done a lot of repairs. He now needs to fix himself and his coaching staff to get the team to another level. And he further needs to fix the perception of VT, and reinstall the mindset of blue-chip recruits that VT is place to thrive.
absolutely, 100% agree.
I'm scarred by Fuente, and my cynical view is that Pry can't or won't make the staff changes that we all know are necessary. I'm admittedly snake-bitten on this - until I actually see a coach at VT fire an underperforming assistant (this century) I'm not ever going to believe that it will happen.
I thought Fuente could have saved face after the 2018 disaster by firing Cornelsen and getting an OC who knew something about football. When that didn't happen I knew he was busted and it was only a matter of time. Turns out we waited a bit too long but IIWII.
I have similar thoughts with Pry. I'm not (yet) at the point of saying he needs to go. But he DEFINITELY needs to make a change to save face. He'd be taking a big risk by not making any staff changes in the off-season. If the staff is the same, and the 2025 season results are the same (or worse) then I don't see how he survives as a head coach in this industry. (Last I checked, Fuente hasn't picked up a head coaching gig since he was fired and it seems unlikely he'll be on anyone's list anytime in the future)
Here's what I want to happen: Pry fires Marve, hires someone with DC experience, gets himself a special assistant to help with in-game management decisions, and figures out a way to get Bowen's offense to wake up on Day 1 rather than on Day 30. We start 2025 with at least 3 wins out of the first 4 games and the defense shows a marked improvement over the disaster it has been for the last decade. Final record is 8-4 or better.
Here's what I think will happen: Pry won't make any changes. He'll talk a big game and blow a bunch of smoke and then stumble out of the gate, losing 2 or 3 games in the first 4 weeks. The offense starts to click in October but the defense has a few bad games that lead to a few more 1-score losses and we finish the season with 6 losses, or worse. Then Whit inks a new 4 year deal with Pry to keep him around even longer.
If we somehow win out, I am afraid this is very likely but would be very very stupid.
Yep- beat Clemson, and nothing happens at all.
beat clemson and uva, lose to duke. Finnish 7-5 and go to the toilet bowl. rinse and repeat.