Moving the band behind the basket to replace the students is ridiculous. Not only that but having them spread out leaving all those empty seats. They are messing with one of the best student sections and home court advantages in college basketball. @CassellGuardVT pic.twitter.com/JXkXHz8QI4— Nathan Gray (@nathangray_1) November 16, 2024
You know, it's not great that we basically defunded the sport to give more money to football, and it's not super awesome that we announced a badly needed renovation to Cassell only to indefinitely shelve those plans because of NIL. But this just seems unnecessarily pointless and dumb to displace the student section in Cassell like this. And from what I'm seeing, the band has been told it's for both men's and women's.
Comments
Lingchi
It is for all winter sports. Worst part is they blocked off the first three rows of seats in front of the band so on TV the whole front looks empty instead of having Cassell Guard there.
Worse yet, the band move was made because "donors complained about the band noise near their seats" ...that's what was communicated by the Athletic Department.
Appeasing people that aren't even at the games looking at the empty seats in the arena.
Are we surprised?
Our donors have long cared more for about feeling special at a game than anything that gives VT a competitive advantage. They don't care about results, they just want to feel special in Blacksburg
Yep ...they want night out at the movies more than create an advantage in a sporting event
And the kicker is, this should only increase whining from those donors because now you're going to have them sitting right next to the student section instead of the band buffering them. So I'm sure that won't be an issue at all with those busybodies
Did you see the disclaimer for the student takeover game later this month? They're giving all unclaimed tickets to any student that shows up (very cool). However they put a disclaimer akin to "beware students may be near you and not in their typical section". It felt like they were warning everyone that the riffraff might get a little too close.
Students? Like, college students? At a college basketball game?
It's amazing how that happens.
Yes, but you're forgetting one crucial thing: seats seat the same
I thought the move for the band to essentially drop down a section was a good call. If it's a problem can we just put them back where they've been?
Edit: actually on second thought it's not a problem at all. That section of ticket holders can deal with a little noise on games that it's clear that they're not even going to.
I realize that being in the ACC it will never happen cause they will sell the tickets for too much $...but I wish it was like it was when I was a student in the 1980s. The students got 4500 of the 10,000 seats -pretty much the entire (tennis court) west side. No- it didn't sell out every game- probably 6500-7500 for the not great opponents, 9000 or so for the decent teams and sellouts for Louisville, Memphis State(would have sold out UVA but they always played on neutral courts-Richmond or Roanoke-back then0.
Even in the best atmospheres now, I've never heard it anywhere near as loud as the win over Memphis State on Feb 8, 1986, 766-72 wn- so loud you couldn't even HEAR the band playing. UVA had beaten #1 UNCearlier that week; Memphis was #2 poised to be #1 the following day. The TD headline Sunday was 'Welcome to Virginia-check your undefeated record at the border!"
Also the only time saw something happen in a basketball game- as usually happens, the teams -especially Memphis-were taking forever to get back on the floor after timeouts. After one particularly egregious delay after a made VT basket, the Hokies were back on the floor but Memphis was still in their huddle. The referee got tired of waiting, placed the ball on the floor on the baseline and started his 5 second count. After 2 seconds, Memphis realized what was happening and scrambled to try and get out and throw it in but didn't make it; 5 second call and Hokie possession!
Would love to see that happen consistently...in both basketball AND football. Maybe games would actually end on time more often!
Man I would have loved to see that, I didn't even that that would be possible. /SSSSS
While we did score over 100 many times in the '80s, yes that was a typo . I'm leaving it as is cause liked your comment!
As somebody who was sitting next to the drums, I am glad they moved. I was actually bringing hearing protection to the games after the first. But I also didn't say anything and just planned ahead.
Why were they moved in the first place? Why the heck didn't they go back to the old band spot?
This is a travesty
Because when in doubt, we always do the most #gohokies things possible
This is insanely stupid. Why is VT Athletics this dumb? Why?
Two names...
Whit Babcock
John Ballein
Getting really, really hard to support/root for anything associated with the VTAD anymore...
I remember in the management class I had to take at VT, one of the big points was that culture starts at the top. At this point it feels like the athletic department has fully embraced the #GoACC culture unfortunately.
I think we embraced #goACC culture the day we got into the ACC, and especially winning it in football the first year. It feels like football went on autopilot and the stagnation slowly started then and hasn't recovered. We don't have that championship winning, aggressive mentality with football or frankly most of our athletics programs. The old guard and powers that be at VT got their wish with ACC membership - finally brushing elbows with UVA, UNC, Duke, etc. That was 'Mission Accomplished' for VT athletics. It's too much of a small potatoes country club vibe in the AD, and the people with money and influence would rather worry about the kids being too darn loud and feeling special going to games than actually winning. I'm frankly sick of the whole thing. I love VT as an alum, but rooting for their sports programs has jumped the shark for me.
Pry had a quote during the summer at a Hokie Club event that VT "doesn't want to end up in the poo poo league" regarding conference realignment. Well, we have found ourselves in the poo poo league, with the poo poo coach/staff, poo poo AD, and poo poo leadership/vision for athletics. Congratulations!
At this point, I'd be ok with telling any donor who threatens to pull their funding to take their money with them and don't let the door hit you on the way out. We can't get away from the apparent rotten culture within the athletic department fast enough
Overeact much?
Its definitely an impassioned response but I stand by it. Are we really better with donors money if those same donors are causing things like this?
I realize at this point I'm reacting to hearsay but man all of this has been frustrating
Also while I am ranting, I swear to God if I ever hit it big you can bet your ass i won't ever carry myself like my shit doesn't stink. People who think they're above everyone because they have a large pile of wealth are the worst
So as someone who has only been to 1 Tech home basketball game but hundreds of VCU games starting in 1983 just weeks after I was born going to them at the old Richmond Colosseum to then new build Seigel center the band has always been behind the basket for them. What's the issue? Why not have both the band and the students there?
Physical space
Cassell holds like 3,000 more people, there should easily be a way to get students and the band behind the basket.
If you look at the picture in the original post you will see the platform they installed but they also blocked the students from sitting in the three rows next to the platform in front of the band.
The platform and empty seats looked terrible in the women's game yesterday.
The band filled in some of the empty space in its designated seating area but it definitely did not look full.
See picture below. Now imagine that entire red box empty.
The band used to take up around 50-60 seats in an upper corner section. Now they take up an entire 100+ seats in a courtside (endline) section. that's 50+ less students who can attend, and the students are in worse (corner vs endline) seats.
You got me to wondering how many other schools have their bands behind the hoop. I feel like I've seen that at other college games as well.
A lot. Just googled a handful, and all of them are behind the baseline/hoop. Maryland, Duke, Louisville, NC State, Indiana, Ohio State...pretty much a 100% hit rate on searching.
Most places that do also allow the students to have the first few rows over the length of the court, so it's not like the band is displacing them. Even at Maryland, who has probably the most similar student section to ours, students still have about 10 rows around the court, so the band location isn't an issue.
This exactly but imagine the meltdown from "donors" if Tech decided to do this with Cassell Guard.
I've long said that the best thing they could do is just dig out a couple rows along the sidelines behind the benches and put in standing risers for the students just like at every other venue in the ACC.
But like you said, our donors would throw a fit because they would resent students for having something nicer than they get.
Is this just for the span from fall finals until spring semester starts?
All season is what the students are being told. I actually liked them bringing the band down into the corner but moving the band into the Cassell Guard space looked awful on TV.
They erected a platform about 4 rows up that looks like the party decks at UNC football.
They also blocked off three rows of seats near the front of the section so those rows are empty in front of the band.
The band also seemed to have alot of open space in it's seating area that also looked terrible.
It might work better for the marching Virginians but the Corps band needs to go back to the old spot. They are a smaller band and the open spaces definitely show more. I have had seats next to the students for years, and didn't care about them. But I did not appreciate the drums and band being moved next to me. But I just started planning ahead and bringing hearing protection. Tech just needs a big drum of ear plugs for fans that complain.
If the donors are really donating I imagine Tech could get them branded Noise Canceling headphones...
Well based on performance, I might be dropping my season football tickets and just keeping basketball.
Is the deep concern that big donors are pulling strings, or that the students/guard are displaced, or the optics on tv...
All of those concerns seem relevant.
A directly causing B and C
This is pure conjecture but is there any way they did this because they're anticipating not a lot of students showing up to watch what will likely be a bottom 3rd men's bball team? And having the band there might look better than a James Johnson era student section?
So adjusting seating to cover their ass for making the decision to dilute the product significantly. Putting our "best" foot forward as Whit does the Hokie Rope-a-Dokie to the fan base.
Hey! Those James Johnson era student sections had dozens of hard-cheering Hokies!
I was one of them a few times. My second bball game as a student, we hosted WVU at like 11AM as part of an all day hoops marathon on ESPN. I skipped Intro to Astronomy to watch the Hokies pull off the win
I thought this was my first game as a student, but I had memory-holed a loss to South Carolina Upstate
Look, I don't love this, but I also don't think it's unreasonable or even a bad idea - the team might not be good this year (aka attendance goes down). This is a way to get a quick win by making donors feel like they're being heard and make the stands look less empty for TV, with little downside.
Except they still looked empty in that section especially with three complete rows empty directly in line with at least three of their primary camera angles. The free throw cameras were the worst.
Anticipating less attendance is a direct result of their decisions to strip both programs of funding. Would love to see how much exactly they lose year over year in ticket sales. Hope it's an extremely large number at this point. Put another nail in Whits coffin.
Yea... Everyone wanted to invest completely and fully in football. People are just upset that it isnt paying off (yet... hopefully).
Given the last couple final fours, I'll argue that NILing a hoops team is a better use of money than spending whatever we threw at a football team that might get lucky enough to go to a bowl. I couldn't imagine being one of the bigger NIL donors that has some serious cash tied up in the football program only to end up backing a team with an identical record to UVA.
This is why you see G5 teams rise up pretty often. Focusing NIL on 13 is way easier than 105.
It's math..... duh
You don't need 13, lots of teams make runs with 1 guy and a bunch of nobodies. Cuse won a title with two really good players and decent role players.
Yep! Quick- without googling it, name any other player that played with Steph Curry on Davidson's team the year they went deep in the NCAA tournament.
Or ja Mormet (sp?) at Murray st?
Or Southern Illinois on 2000 with the guy Ricky kicked off our team because he was less than a stellar person
Put the donors where Cassell Guard was and make them hold the signs and paint their faces since they're such great fans and part of the atmosphere! Problem solved then with the "band noise." My lord, VT donors might be the biggest Karens ever.
Just put the band in the corner of the visiting team section, which is usually half filled. Problem solved all around.
That whole end never seems to be more than 1/3rd full
Honestly want the entire Marching Virginians to turn up, sit midway up a side and play instruments wherever they sit....bring on the WHOLE band
Put em in the top rows of each section to make a continuous ring of band. No one is safe
Have the tuba player just walk right into the donor section and lay down a nice bass line.
Need to give 'em the ole brown note!
Have the trombone section right behind the donors and have them keep 'bapping' Them in the head.
Attendance is partially down because Athletics made the colossally stupid decision to strip the OOC games for men from the season tickets. They kept the ACC tickets the same price as the normal season tickets. Now the season ticket holders can buy those OOC games for additional money... As a result the season ticket holders aren't going to OOC games and Cassell looks even more empty.
Because many, though not all, season ticket holders purchased entire season packages intending to attend only a few notable games, the hope was that local residents from the Roanoke metro area, including Blacksburg, would buy tickets for the remaining games to prevent empty seats.
Yeah, but it was thumbing their noses at alumni season ticket holders like me who went to every game regardless. Heck, a couple of years ago during the winter break, my father in law and I took a break from snow plowing to drive to a game with 8" on the ground. If there were 100 people there that game other than the teams, I would have been amazed.
I disagree. I think it was a good idea (to make them available as two separate packages) with the intention of making the less desirable games more accessible to the general public and to those who can only make 1 or a few games, instead of tying them up with season ticket holders who might just sit on them. I don't see this, at all, as a "whatever, we don't care" to faithful season ticket holders/attendees.
Unfortunately, as Alum points out in the topic, VT athletics has begun heavily discounting so many things about the basketball programs that all the groundswell the last couple of years has mostly eroded away, hence lots of empty seats on TV. What's really unfortunate is that the only way we can punish the people making these poor decisions is to stop donating, stop attending the games, stop watching on TV, etc...but the people that ultimately hurt by that would be the student athletes who a) I most want to succeed & earn my time/money, and b) are pawns in the grand scheme of VT athletics.
I agree with the concept of breaking up the tickets, they just handled it poorly. They could have charged 90% for the ACC games and 10% for the OOC games and given season ticket holders the option to buy both. Or heck, charge 90% for just the ACC games or 110% of last years price and gotten both ( I would have done it). But instead it was 100% for 2/3rds of the game and you can pay more individually to get more tickets.
I'm with you here. There are some neat things that can be done with this. Student takeover is a solid idea. The ability to upgrade your non-con tickets is also a good idea. But this whole thing was executed in the most VT athletics way possible and now we have the lowest attended games in recent history.
All this thread has done is convince me that VT donors are the most selfish and petulant donors in college sports history
Do you really believe that?
No
and that our athletic department is not committed to creating a competitive environment for the teams
It could be worse though...this is VMI warming up at the 2024 Greenbrier Tip-Off Classic Tournament.....the games were in the Ballroom. All two fans were there.
Who is Tim Thomas?
He does majority of in game posts on Twitter for TechLunchPail for Football and Basketball. Pretty well connected on recruiting news as well. Tries to keep up with most of the other sports as well.
Preach it, Timothy
Okay I am going to be the stick in the mud, aren't some of the broadcasters in the middle of that green line? They might be the ones who complained over the donors. Like I said, I might have complained to myself, but I also just got earplugs.
Just put the band back in the original location. Solved...
Nah, the biggest issue is Tim Thomas not understanding that the big donors have and do in fact run the ship. Hello? that's how college sports works. Would you rather have a million dollar donation or an opinion about the pep band ? Which one will help Mike Young win more games?
Yeah this is how Tennessee and Alabama have famously been run.... and it took a certain coach to wrangle the donors in a successful direction.
Well yeah, it takes an Athletic Department that is able to work to show and explain to the high dollar donors that their contributions are needed to specifically improve things on the field, or that it all goes to bettering the overall experience for everyone, from which they will get certain perks.
But here, we apparently are letting the donors hold us hostage by allowing them to dictate exactly what they want in order for us to get their money. That's very unhealthy, and a great way to run a department into the ground
And I'll just elaborate a little more here.
IMHO the current funding model we have at Tech is unsustainable. The push to divert all fundraising to pour money into NIL is a bubble that will burst sooner than you think, especially if we don't see a major turnaround of on field results within the football program.
And as much we as do love and focus on our top 1%, we cannot ignore that we had more than 25k Hokie Club members last calendar year who raised over $22m. Eventually, that money needs to be invested back to improve facilities, amenities and the fan experience on gameday, and you have to be able to do this with look on what is best for everyone and not just the 1%. Far too often, we are losing sight of the forest to satisfy the biggest trees.
Right now, when I give money I have zero faith that the money will be spent in any form to improve my experience when I attend an event at Tech. If anything, I'm expecting the experience to continue to get worse year over year because I just don't have any faith in the people controlling it. Lines to get into Lane, concourse crowding, lack of modern concessions or bathrooms, lack of cell signal or wifi, we are stuck in the 90s with no desire to get out of it. But that's ok, because we'll renovate the high dollar donor suites and lounges and make sure the donors who only show up for 5-10 basketball games a year are satisfied because, in the end, its their money that really counts.
our issue is and always has been that we don't have enough volume of "small donors". The hokie club is simply small- always has been. Clemson used to have thousands more than we do. Without more small donors, the big donors are more powerful because they have a larger % of the pie. In terms of Lane , you are 100% correct. Cell technology will be a thing of the past right in time for you to be able to text in Lane during a game. Concessions are always an issue because there is not enough of them. VT should do what Arizona state did with their concourses- totally upgraded them, widened them, etc.
The Hokie Club has over 3k more donors than Clemson's IPTAY
Thats a recent phenomenon - thanks for correcting me
The reason you need a lot of small donors is because small donors turn into big donors, so you want as many small donors as possible to increase the likelihood of getting a big donor.
I don't think more small donors will lead to significant changes.
For what it's worth, tonight at the women's game the band was back to it's usual spot in the corner.
Which is what I was hoping for as it was the best solution. They have the built in platform there for the drums, etc.