In answering question re: hoops assistants, Babcock said football staff "is a little lean." Said VT's added couple positions for recruiting.— Andy Bitter (@AndyBitterVT) March 24, 2014
!!!!!!!!!!
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Whit mentioned this during the press conference...a lot of credit has to go to Jim Weaver. While we've griped about this in the past, Jim did a good job of being fiscally responsible for years and developing the athletic department's nest egg....It allowed Whit to throw down the thundercock, if you will
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Whit is killing it. But I thought the whole issue was the VT athletics was basically out of money.
That's what I took from the Ballein Interview about the AD position. He pretty much said the Indoor Facility was a pipe dream we shouldn't chase now because we had no money and should hire more staff first.
Seems like Whit said "Phuck that, I'm gonna do both"
Somehow he's finding the money. Could be those fat cat donors that have gotten turned away (the same ones that used to buy the unsold tickets and football games perhaps) were courted pretty damn hard for the extra money to get shit done.
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Fiscally responsible? Well that's an interesting revisionist way of looking at his cheap and lazy mindset over the past decade.
Absolutely no excuse to hire an ACC head basketball coach for $680k. None. We got what we paid for, and it set us back a few years even with a great coach like Buzz on staff. During this same time, we also saw complete reboots on women's basketball, men's soccer, wrestling, and baseball. We got LUCKY Jim found a cheap guy in our own backyard in wrestling that has us at an elite level again, but every other replacement search has been met with a drastically worse program than the one that was there originally. And it horrifies me to know it almost happened with football under Weaver's watch.
We got Buzz because we have a guy in charge that knows sometimes you have to spend money to make money, and when the opportunity presents itself, you swing for the fences. Weaver's comfort zone was to cut costs to preserve profits. Whit's appears to be to spend money to drive revenue and increase profits. The two mindsets are completely different, and despite the kind public words about Weaver, I wouldn't really say he deserves too much credit for the drastic changes we've seen in the first month under Whit. In fact, it just kind of shows the untapped potential that was easy to pinpoint and capitalize upon by the new AD.
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Weaver's comfort zone was to cut costs to preserve profits. Whit's appears to be to spend money to drive revenue and increase profits.
Whit is able to do what's he doing because the athletic department isn't in massive debt like hundreds of other programs in the country. I get that you're pissed at Weaver but he did keep us in the black from year to year.
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He's a "build it and they will come" type guy. Like Buzz said, your first 100 days set the tone. He's showing everyone what the future is going to be which will loosen up the wallets.
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Ah yes, good ol' Value Engineering. Back in my day, we had a course in the IE department called Production Systems Improvement and VE was a pillar of that course. Good ol' VE.
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Think about when this is actually built, you can show all recruits, basketball and football, all the new facilities and amenities they have at their disposal. Our facilities minus Cassell (which I expect to be rectified shortly) have got to be some of the best in the country.
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Looks awesome! Isn't one of the big things that the walls open up so they can practice half in and half out? With those columns there it doesn't look like that's the case.
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That's just what I was thinking. If the columns are built like that there is no way field width doors are a part of the design. I hope this isn't the case, as I thought the field width doors would be awesome.
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i don't think there was ever intent to have a full sized field running through the doors (would go from grass to turf), but it appears these doors will all slide open to the sides to make the indoor facility "open air" and connected with the outdoor fields in the sense that when weather is nice, they'll have 3 fields all easily connected for communication and stations, one will just be mostly shaded with a artificial turf field. the pillars will still be there, but it will feel open.
just my $.02 from looking at the drawing.
as far as having 120 yard fields, i know we've been through this before, but having 1 is all we need, as long as the other fields give us the space we need. 120 yards is nice for aesthetics, but isn't necessary.
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Well, as it was reported the compromise solution was that the hanger doors would open and both outdoor fields could be extended into 2 full size fields. This is also why we have 2 short fields running perpendicular to the new building and not just 1 full length field.
Now however it seems, at least from this one image, like that plan may have been scrapped. Not sure why though. Cost could be an issue but if they reduced the amount of heavy material on the facade that would save a lot.
So far, I am not really a fan of this. I think the company will do a great job building it but I wasn't a fan of the location being on top of the previous fields either. That's just me though I guess.
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Based on that Hokie Club link provided above to the presentation, it was supposed to have large overhead doors. It's even specifically called out on the conceptual plans.
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I think when the issue of different field surfaces inside and out was mentioned before, someone had suggested using the same system (GreenTech ITM modular system) that is used for Worsham Field on the practice fields. This would allow the Hokies to rotate natural grass into and out of the indoor facility and have the playing surfaces inside and out connected. With sprinkler systems and skylights (which could also cut down on costs related to lighting and heating) you could also potentially have the grass growing inside the practice facility itself.
For more on the modular system Worsham Field uses, see the following links:
The last link has links to 3 videos about Worsham Field: during the A&M hurricane game, a Duke game that was right after another hurricane game, and CFB talking about the system.
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i know all about the tray system, but i'm pretty sure they plan on having a N/S 120 yard artificial field in the field house. i doubt they have any intention of maintaining grass when in indoor artificial field could last them years with zero maintenance costs. it also gives them an opportunity to practice on field turf prior to playing BC, 'cuse, Georgia Dome, Super Dome, Jerry World (a guy can hope!), etc. plus, more and more northern schools could switch to field turf in the coming years.
i can't say it won't happen or wasn't considered, but i don't think i would get my hopes up.
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Impressive, but boy does it make Cassell, and especially the offices at the back, stick out like a sore thumb.
Seeing that, you HAVE to think that a renovation of Cassell has to be in the plans for the future, if only because the architecture of the building doesn't go at all with any of the facilities next to it.
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They showed the different views of the rendering and this thing is going to be top of the line and still incorporate a lot of Virginia Tech into it. It is going to be multipurpose as well so I think that should help bring in some donors.
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This picture gives me a crazy idea about Cassell...rather than tearing it down, could they take off the roof, arches and outer walls under the arches and expand out and up in the current footprint?tear out the top of the stands on each side, add upper decks and a 2nd concourse with luxury suites/club between the 2 decks, make the lower concourse massive with a hall of fame, restaurants, etc. hell, they could expand it all the way over to connect to the practice facility without moving the bowl or the court.
engineers and architects, is this possible? could it be done fast enough to only impact one season, possibly playing in Roanoke (or Radford?) for a year if need be?
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In simple terms: Anything is possible, for a cost.
Without getting into the details of what could and could not be removed for structural reasons, based on experience I would argue [in this scenario] it would be more cost effective to completely demolish Cassell and build an entirely new building. There is not a whole lot of material in Cassell that is worth retaining, especially because we have all experienced the narrow tiers and antiquated seating. I am a preservation architect, so I would typically be the first to stand up and vouch for retaining as much material as possible. At the same time, I am a pragmatist, and there would be little reason to go through the severe cost penalties you would pay in this selective demolition scenario for construction logistics, etc.
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appreciate the feedback. could they start construction of a new arena in the space between Cassell and the practice facility while Cassell is being used and then demolished to save time? i just want Cassell to basically stay where it is, but i wouldn't want to miss more than 1 season on campus.
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Good question. Based on my knowledge of the area between the two structures, I doubt it. The amount of space required for excavation [to dig foundations/drive pilings] is extensive, and modern arenas are typically pretty hefty because of the expansive concourse space clients desire. It might be possible, but from 430 miles away my guess is unlikely. But like I said, I don't design sports venues, so someone smarter than me might have a better answer.
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This would be prohibitively impossible. The amount of money wasted on the logistics of it would be sky high.
Plus as phillyhokie said Cassell is an extremely heavy building. you could excavate next to it but you would essentially have to build a supportive structure on the Cassell side so that it doesn't fall in the hole. Then you have issues with water and subsidence. Finally, typically with any modern sports facility the sub-levels are extremely important, not just for foundation, but for operations reasons. To construct it piecemeal would never work.
If your going to just replace Cassell then why not build it on the Cassell parking lot and then demolish Cassell. That way you don't miss any basketball and football can get back their missing practice fields.
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We wouldn't want to really move a basketball facility anyway, because one of the main purposes behind putting the Greenberg practice center where we did was to allow for it to connect underground to Cassell. If we were going to do this, one thought would be to fill up Rector with a bunch of temporary bleachers for a couple seasons, tear down Cassell and rebuild it in its current spot. I'm sure we could easily get 8,000 or so temporary seats in Rector for games, and assuming there wouldn't be any fire code issues, it would be perfect. We could also use that opportunity to play 'home' games in a few areas throughout the state, especially during student breaks, to give alumni closer games to watch.
And lets be honest, the current Cassell footprint is perfect for an expanded arena. We could do an arena with an upper bowl, and we would still have plenty of room on the sides for an expanded concourse due to the support beams that extend to the sides of the current building. And while we're doing this, it would present us with the opportunity to completely overhaul the current offices that are located behind Cassell to bring that area up to par with the rest of the architecture surrounding the practice fields. Do all that, and you suddenly have built yourselves a first class athletic center where football and basketball intermingle perfectly. It would be a showpiece to any recruit you bring to campus, and it would be a big sell for us.
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i love this idea if it's feasible. i would also be ok playing no on campus games or only on campus vs weak opponents with a small crowd if we could manage to miss only one season.
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The total area available looking at the map online is about 600 feet along Washington Street and 400 feet along Spring Road. Cassell currently occupies about 200 feet of the space along Washington Street and all of the space along Spring Road. Trying to do construction in the 300 clear feet between the Practice Facility and Cassell would be extremely difficult. It already would be a really tight fit to try to reuse that space for a basketball arena. They essentially have to turn the arena on a 90 degree angle to use that space. The court would be parallel to Washington Street in its new construction. The requirements of pouring concrete pillars, foundation and other key support measures would probably mean they would need Cassell completely gone to ensure that all of these structures are level with each other as part of the construction. I would imagine that we are looking at the needing to go at least 400 feet below street level to construct this facility.
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Current facility is about 200 feet below is my understanding. Taking that into account, and the likely need to provide much more stability for a larger facility, I would expect that pilings would definitely reach 400 but if all of the subterranean features that most arenas have are incorporated, those levels would likely reach as deep as 300 feet if what I remember is correct on the current depth of Cassell.
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My (probably incorrect) understanding was that they wanted to be able to open the doors up to connect the outdoor and indoor practice fields. If that's the case wouldn't they want to find a way to eliminate the pillars with the exception of one in the middle between the fields. I'm not sure if it would be possible to do so, but if you can't have the fields connected, it kind of defeats the purpose of having the huge doors.
Edit: I see this was discussed above
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- One end zone with maroon background with orange lettering
- One end zone with orange background with maroon lettering
- Paint the 20s with maroon and orange lines
- Put a border around the field.
- Maroon VT in the middle
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Comments
Buzz approves.
I see TKP getting many, many miles out of this little baby.
Damn, I'd like to take her to a nice seafood dinner and call her afterwards.
Dear Whit:
!!!!!!!!!!
Whit mentioned this during the press conference...a lot of credit has to go to Jim Weaver. While we've griped about this in the past, Jim did a good job of being fiscally responsible for years and developing the athletic department's nest egg....It allowed Whit to throw down the thundercock, if you will
First time I lol'd reading a post on TKP, didn't expect that ending. Turkey leg for you, sir.
Whit is killing it. But I thought the whole issue was the VT athletics was basically out of money.
That's what I took from the Ballein Interview about the AD position. He pretty much said the Indoor Facility was a pipe dream we shouldn't chase now because we had no money and should hire more staff first.
Seems like Whit said "Phuck that, I'm gonna do both"
Somehow he's finding the money. Could be those fat cat donors that have gotten turned away (the same ones that used to buy the unsold tickets and football games perhaps) were courted pretty damn hard for the extra money to get shit done.
Fiscally responsible? Well that's an interesting revisionist way of looking at his cheap and lazy mindset over the past decade.
Absolutely no excuse to hire an ACC head basketball coach for $680k. None. We got what we paid for, and it set us back a few years even with a great coach like Buzz on staff. During this same time, we also saw complete reboots on women's basketball, men's soccer, wrestling, and baseball. We got LUCKY Jim found a cheap guy in our own backyard in wrestling that has us at an elite level again, but every other replacement search has been met with a drastically worse program than the one that was there originally. And it horrifies me to know it almost happened with football under Weaver's watch.
We got Buzz because we have a guy in charge that knows sometimes you have to spend money to make money, and when the opportunity presents itself, you swing for the fences. Weaver's comfort zone was to cut costs to preserve profits. Whit's appears to be to spend money to drive revenue and increase profits. The two mindsets are completely different, and despite the kind public words about Weaver, I wouldn't really say he deserves too much credit for the drastic changes we've seen in the first month under Whit. In fact, it just kind of shows the untapped potential that was easy to pinpoint and capitalize upon by the new AD.
Whit is able to do what's he doing because the athletic department isn't in massive debt like hundreds of other programs in the country. I get that you're pissed at Weaver but he did keep us in the black from year to year.
This cannot be overstated.
Imagine if we had had Kevin Anderson from Maryland...
i want to downvote this because you made me envision Kevin Anderson at VT, and it scared me...but i won't.
It was meant more for us to count our blessings. I'm not here to frighten anyone.
The pic is already my avatar but I want to post it as large as possible.
Whit's all like "it ain't no thang"
Well, they did tell us he was a whizz at fundraising.
He's a "build it and they will come" type guy. Like Buzz said, your first 100 days set the tone. He's showing everyone what the future is going to be which will loosen up the wallets.
This is a big move forward in recruiting the top talent.
Is that the thing?! Way cool, but I wasn't aware we had that much extra space on the practice fields. Nutso
Yessir - of course going through Value Engineering still, got to match the cost with the funds right now. Lets keep the new donations going!
Ah yes, good ol' Value Engineering. Back in my day, we had a course in the IE department called Production Systems Improvement and VE was a pillar of that course. Good ol' VE.
I bet your chompin' at the bit to get into that place
Will need more Hokie Stone. But looks good with the Maroon roof.
i can just see an errant ball getting caught in that blacksburg wind and crashing through bud's office window.
everybody:
Think about when this is actually built, you can show all recruits, basketball and football, all the new facilities and amenities they have at their disposal. Our facilities minus Cassell (which I expect to be rectified shortly) have got to be some of the best in the country.
That looks like it is going to completely fill the walkway path from the Tennis courts down to the east stands.
Part of that gets rebuilt, shown here. http://www.hokieclub.com/forms/practicefacility.pdf
Wow that looks cool. Wonder how many Big Ass Fans it will have :P
Looks awesome! Isn't one of the big things that the walls open up so they can practice half in and half out? With those columns there it doesn't look like that's the case.
That's just what I was thinking. If the columns are built like that there is no way field width doors are a part of the design. I hope this isn't the case, as I thought the field width doors would be awesome.
i don't think there was ever intent to have a full sized field running through the doors (would go from grass to turf), but it appears these doors will all slide open to the sides to make the indoor facility "open air" and connected with the outdoor fields in the sense that when weather is nice, they'll have 3 fields all easily connected for communication and stations, one will just be mostly shaded with a artificial turf field. the pillars will still be there, but it will feel open.
just my $.02 from looking at the drawing.
as far as having 120 yard fields, i know we've been through this before, but having 1 is all we need, as long as the other fields give us the space we need. 120 yards is nice for aesthetics, but isn't necessary.
Well, as it was reported the compromise solution was that the hanger doors would open and both outdoor fields could be extended into 2 full size fields. This is also why we have 2 short fields running perpendicular to the new building and not just 1 full length field.
Now however it seems, at least from this one image, like that plan may have been scrapped. Not sure why though. Cost could be an issue but if they reduced the amount of heavy material on the facade that would save a lot.
So far, I am not really a fan of this. I think the company will do a great job building it but I wasn't a fan of the location being on top of the previous fields either. That's just me though I guess.
Based on that Hokie Club link provided above to the presentation, it was supposed to have large overhead doors. It's even specifically called out on the conceptual plans.
I think when the issue of different field surfaces inside and out was mentioned before, someone had suggested using the same system (GreenTech ITM modular system) that is used for Worsham Field on the practice fields. This would allow the Hokies to rotate natural grass into and out of the indoor facility and have the playing surfaces inside and out connected. With sprinkler systems and skylights (which could also cut down on costs related to lighting and heating) you could also potentially have the grass growing inside the practice facility itself.
For more on the modular system Worsham Field uses, see the following links:
http://www.hokiesports.com/football/recaps/04302001aaa.html
http://www.vtnews.vt.edu/articles/2011/11/110911-unirel-calsopenhouse.html
http://www.greentechitm.com/systems/multiuse.asp
The last link has links to 3 videos about Worsham Field: during the A&M hurricane game, a Duke game that was right after another hurricane game, and CFB talking about the system.
i know all about the tray system, but i'm pretty sure they plan on having a N/S 120 yard artificial field in the field house. i doubt they have any intention of maintaining grass when in indoor artificial field could last them years with zero maintenance costs. it also gives them an opportunity to practice on field turf prior to playing BC, 'cuse, Georgia Dome, Super Dome, Jerry World (a guy can hope!), etc. plus, more and more northern schools could switch to field turf in the coming years.
i can't say it won't happen or wasn't considered, but i don't think i would get my hopes up.
This is what I was thinking. The whole "compromise" was that the field side could be completely opened and thus extended to make one of full yardage.
If this is the design seems like we are compromising a whole lot more. Anyway, this is probably just a draft render. I'm sure more are to come.
Impressive, but boy does it make Cassell, and especially the offices at the back, stick out like a sore thumb.
Seeing that, you HAVE to think that a renovation of Cassell has to be in the plans for the future, if only because the architecture of the building doesn't go at all with any of the facilities next to it.
I wonder what they are going to do with the patio in the players lounge. You would now be looking straight at a wall.
Painted endzones? On the practice fields?
They showed the different views of the rendering and this thing is going to be top of the line and still incorporate a lot of Virginia Tech into it. It is going to be multipurpose as well so I think that should help bring in some donors.
Wow, they finished construction quickly...
This picture gives me a crazy idea about Cassell...rather than tearing it down, could they take off the roof, arches and outer walls under the arches and expand out and up in the current footprint?tear out the top of the stands on each side, add upper decks and a 2nd concourse with luxury suites/club between the 2 decks, make the lower concourse massive with a hall of fame, restaurants, etc. hell, they could expand it all the way over to connect to the practice facility without moving the bowl or the court.
engineers and architects, is this possible? could it be done fast enough to only impact one season, possibly playing in Roanoke (or Radford?) for a year if need be?
Not sure on time for construction. USA runs on a different clock than where I work. But sure you could do it.
It would look like a box with a bigger box sitting on top of it though.
In simple terms: Anything is possible, for a cost.
Without getting into the details of what could and could not be removed for structural reasons, based on experience I would argue [in this scenario] it would be more cost effective to completely demolish Cassell and build an entirely new building. There is not a whole lot of material in Cassell that is worth retaining, especially because we have all experienced the narrow tiers and antiquated seating. I am a preservation architect, so I would typically be the first to stand up and vouch for retaining as much material as possible. At the same time, I am a pragmatist, and there would be little reason to go through the severe cost penalties you would pay in this selective demolition scenario for construction logistics, etc.
Sign me up to buy a couple seats for the man-cave and cheer on the wrecking ball.
appreciate the feedback. could they start construction of a new arena in the space between Cassell and the practice facility while Cassell is being used and then demolished to save time? i just want Cassell to basically stay where it is, but i wouldn't want to miss more than 1 season on campus.
Good question. Based on my knowledge of the area between the two structures, I doubt it. The amount of space required for excavation [to dig foundations/drive pilings] is extensive, and modern arenas are typically pretty hefty because of the expansive concourse space clients desire. It might be possible, but from 430 miles away my guess is unlikely. But like I said, I don't design sports venues, so someone smarter than me might have a better answer.
This would be prohibitively impossible. The amount of money wasted on the logistics of it would be sky high.
Plus as phillyhokie said Cassell is an extremely heavy building. you could excavate next to it but you would essentially have to build a supportive structure on the Cassell side so that it doesn't fall in the hole. Then you have issues with water and subsidence. Finally, typically with any modern sports facility the sub-levels are extremely important, not just for foundation, but for operations reasons. To construct it piecemeal would never work.
If your going to just replace Cassell then why not build it on the Cassell parking lot and then demolish Cassell. That way you don't miss any basketball and football can get back their missing practice fields.
We wouldn't want to really move a basketball facility anyway, because one of the main purposes behind putting the Greenberg practice center where we did was to allow for it to connect underground to Cassell. If we were going to do this, one thought would be to fill up Rector with a bunch of temporary bleachers for a couple seasons, tear down Cassell and rebuild it in its current spot. I'm sure we could easily get 8,000 or so temporary seats in Rector for games, and assuming there wouldn't be any fire code issues, it would be perfect. We could also use that opportunity to play 'home' games in a few areas throughout the state, especially during student breaks, to give alumni closer games to watch.
And lets be honest, the current Cassell footprint is perfect for an expanded arena. We could do an arena with an upper bowl, and we would still have plenty of room on the sides for an expanded concourse due to the support beams that extend to the sides of the current building. And while we're doing this, it would present us with the opportunity to completely overhaul the current offices that are located behind Cassell to bring that area up to par with the rest of the architecture surrounding the practice fields. Do all that, and you suddenly have built yourselves a first class athletic center where football and basketball intermingle perfectly. It would be a showpiece to any recruit you bring to campus, and it would be a big sell for us.
i love this idea if it's feasible. i would also be ok playing no on campus games or only on campus vs weak opponents with a small crowd if we could manage to miss only one season.
The total area available looking at the map online is about 600 feet along Washington Street and 400 feet along Spring Road. Cassell currently occupies about 200 feet of the space along Washington Street and all of the space along Spring Road. Trying to do construction in the 300 clear feet between the Practice Facility and Cassell would be extremely difficult. It already would be a really tight fit to try to reuse that space for a basketball arena. They essentially have to turn the arena on a 90 degree angle to use that space. The court would be parallel to Washington Street in its new construction. The requirements of pouring concrete pillars, foundation and other key support measures would probably mean they would need Cassell completely gone to ensure that all of these structures are level with each other as part of the construction. I would imagine that we are looking at the needing to go at least 400 feet below street level to construct this facility.
What is going 400 feet below street level? Pilings? Excavation?
Fuller breeding and cloning factory
Current facility is about 200 feet below is my understanding. Taking that into account, and the likely need to provide much more stability for a larger facility, I would expect that pilings would definitely reach 400 but if all of the subterranean features that most arenas have are incorporated, those levels would likely reach as deep as 300 feet if what I remember is correct on the current depth of Cassell.
Bedrock is closer than 200 feet.
Bedrock?
My (probably incorrect) understanding was that they wanted to be able to open the doors up to connect the outdoor and indoor practice fields. If that's the case wouldn't they want to find a way to eliminate the pillars with the exception of one in the middle between the fields. I'm not sure if it would be possible to do so, but if you can't have the fields connected, it kind of defeats the purpose of having the huge doors.
Edit: I see this was discussed above
Leg for trying!
Jim Weaver explains why this effort didn't get approved two years ago:
this thing is gonna be massive
Virginia Tech Practice Facility from Max Wave Media on Vimeo.
that is pretty sweet...i love all the glass!
I bet Andy Bitter will be excited - no more pro days where the media is banned. All he has to do is stand outside.
Looks like a big barn to me. Turkey leg for barns.
White end zones and a maroon VT at midfield?
I actually like that. Gimme for 2014!
send this idea to Whit for the regular season...hell, make it a fund raiser, pay per vote!
http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209444851&DB_OEM_ID=...
The field needs to be spiced up a bit.
- One end zone with maroon background with orange lettering
- One end zone with orange background with maroon lettering
- Paint the 20s with maroon and orange lines
- Put a border around the field.
- Maroon VT in the middle
its been mentioned above but that video really shows the balcony on merryman completely obscured