Saw a report that Tyler Bowen has been hired as the OL Coach at an Ohio State, will try to get the tweet to embed. Would be a tough blow this late in the cycle and further perpetuates the money gap if our OC is being poached to be a position coach.
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Woooooooooooof.
We are so fucked.
Oh god. How many threads are we going to make it to this time?
...Assuming Brent Davis isn't just named the OC
OK, now that truly sucks.
We really just can't catch a break, huh? I know a lot of people may have gotten their wish with this but man, it is AWFUL timing.
It aint about fucking breaks. It's about actually wanting to fucking beat Duke and Wake... which we don't fucking want to do apparently. It's not about luck or any other shit. Its about fucking being bad for 5 fucking years and not investing in the program. Only VT fans think you magically win on shoestring budgets/commitments/hoping that D2 guys are all great etc. Fuck all of this. We aren't committed to winning.
This seems like a totally un-emotional response....good grief.
What. The. Fuck.
Sheesh, talk about a kick in the nuts!
2 min and 41 seconds late. I'll gladly drink.
Well that's a real shot in the nuts.
Good for him. Better to take the opportunity now than when he has to find a new home with Pry next year.
should we start the new AD & HC thread now or....?
how about other sports to follow since the VT Athletic department will be folding at this rate
I'm concerned, because I don't know what else to be.
Maybe Pry didn't want to fire Bowen and told him to start looking for an out. But wow does it look bad for the program that a coordinator leaves to be a position coach elsewhere.
LMFAO... no. More likely is Whit told him- here is a 10 dollar gift card- so you can only fire one coordinator this offseason.
Mo money, better team. Doesn't look that bad to me. Just hate to lose him.
Now can we get a dedicated QB coach, not a converted OL coach?
This is problematic.
Also an opportunity to make a big boy hire with all the money we saved hiring Seifkes
VT doesn't hire coaches who are "still coaching" so perhaps it's Andy Reid or the Eagles OC?
Probably looking at position coaches from Japan's X League or something.
So we are hiring Bruce Arians? No risk it, no biscuit?
He does have a super bowl ring.
Ooooooooooooooooooooffffffffffffffffffuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
I honestly don't know if your consternation is as a fan or as a moderator of this site anticipating future threads
Yes
As a Dallas Mavericks fan I did not think this week could get any worse, yet here we are.
yep- something something 2 new coordinators something something. This fucking sucks. The program is a fucking joke.
Damn, bud! Just take the rest of the week off.
Hired away for a "demotion". Talk about "big dogged"
Curious to know if he got a pay raise with this move.
Buckeye football is the most important thing- literally - in thousands of peoples lives over God, Family, Country- so I am fucking certain they paid him what he wanted.
Hate to admit it but it's probably a good move for him.
his salary probably doubled
Uh, yeah. I just saw this news 30 seconds ago, but my gut reaction is that this is a huge indictment of the state of VT football in 2025. And the state of non-P2 programs more broadly.
It's mostly the latter. This is the middle get smashed down by the P2. For us VT fans it is all about our program of course but this is happening everywhere in one form or another to anyone who isn't super rich.
It was a bad sign when G5 head coaches were taking coordinator gigs in the P4 and now this is the next level of that evolution.
I've said it else where but this is more and more proof that investing in VT as a regular fan, in the monetary sense, just isn't worth it. My $2500 a year doesn't do a damned thing against this.
So demoralizing.
Well at least we have the list of Arizona Cardinal assistant coaches ready to go.
Looks like Autry Denson was head coach at Charleston Southern University for four years...
He took a fucking demotion?
Yep, Pry ain't lasting til the end of the season
FFS
If this is true, I don't know how Whit remains AD. You cannot defund our other programs like basketball to pour money into football only to see our fucking coordinators leaving for a downgraded position coach at another college.
If we are that fucking cheap, shut it all down and pull the plug on athletics because you cannot be cheap and competitive. And if we aren't competitive NOW on the precipice of the ACC shitting itself, then we might as well sign our own death certificate because there will be no recovery.
Just wait until we name someone already on staff OC in a typical Whit move. We could get a good OC now, but we would have to actually pay him- which we won't fucking do of course.
Lets be realistic.
This is a bad team, with a bad coaching staff. Whether the money exists and isn't being spent or simply doesn't exist, the NIL is limited. The coach and AD are likely lame ducks.
Who would want this job?
If the coaching staff is so bad, why is there so much demand from other teams?
Clearly Ohio State saw something in Bowen.
I don't understand the hire from OSU's perspective, and I'm not sure I'd agree that there's "so much demand".
The current national champions hired our Offensive Coordinator.
That's not demand?
To be something less than an offensive coordinator.
So, no, not really.
And are paying him more. TYLER BOWEN is in high demand, TYLER BOWEN OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR not so sure. So yes, there is demand for VT coaching staff.
Still in demand. Ohio State is just "better".
I was more focused on the remaining staff -- whatever candidates will be evaluating the current OC opening aren't factoring in the coaches who have left, they'd be more interested in who is currently on staff.
Pry hasn't demonstrated the ability to be a successful HC, the DC is brand new, and Fontel Mines is probably the only guy that any reasonable person should be worried about a bigger program picking off at this point.
We've made a lot of moves in the past 4-5 years that have hinted that we're not willing to pay to play big boy football. This not only solidifies that but also tells me we have no desire to compete at the top of the ACC. You simply cannot have your coordinators be poached to be a position coach at another college and be serious about competing in today's coaching market.
"We have no desire to compete at the top of the ACC."- yes sir and it's crystal clear- starting with Pry to be honest. A B list candidate at best with no HC experience given the keys to the car because he knew where the drillfield was. Coming off of Fuente- Whit chose to go inexperienced, B list guy. Reap/Sow.
Who would you have hired DC? A G5 guy? That would have gone over well. A former head coach who failed back to a coordinator? You would've loved that. A sitting coach at a lower P5 school with a mediocre record? You would've said it was't "big time".
Stop moving the goalposts
EDIT: I did a search of head coaching discussions post-Fuente, and you did put previous P5 HC experience as one of your pre-reqs, so you didn't move the goalposts on that. But, still bears the question, who would you have hired that would've 1) been possible 2) not made you go on a wild rant and 3) not turned this board into a flaming wreck?
I'm not DC, but he and I seemed to share a similar mindset at the time.
I advocated to cop a page from the Buzz Williams hire and significantly up the budget to bring in someone with a proven track record who had recently failed in the NFL. I don't remember any names at the time, but that's where I would have started. And if that didn't work, the backup plan was to get a first time up and coming head coach and pair him with proven coordinators that, again, we upped the budget to bring in. Ideally those coordinators would have been guys who had recently failed as head coaches in either the P2 or NFL looking to gain stable footing again.
We paired a first time head coach with 2 coordinators who had never had the role before. We set ourselves up for failure from the jump.
I'm hoping that Bowen had already had conversations with Pry and this didn't catch him off guard so hopefully he already has a "short list" together of potential hires.
The DC move didn't catch him off guard and it only took him 9 weeks to fill the job- with the unknown AZ cardinals LB coach.
Pry told Teel in an interview yesterday how excited he was about Bowens new role on Tuesday. Bowen announces he's leaving on Wednesday. He had no clue....
What was his new role going to be?
OL coach at OSU, of course.
Walk-around OC - no position responsibility. Like Siefkes.
Chip Kelly just left to join the Raiders. I have not been paying attention to see if they hired a new OC yet or not, but maybe he will be getting a co-OC title as well?
Ryan Day might be calling plays
Hartline is the new OC for OSU
I'm aware. Still to be seen who's actually going to be calling plays
The Pry era is all but over at this point. People fleeing a sinking ship.
Well, with the length of time it takes Pry to hire coordinators, I'm hoping we have an OC by kickoff in ATL lmao
Jamey Johnson is on staff and could be a potential in-house promotion. If I remember correctly, he could draw up a mean inbounds pass play
/s
I totally get this from Bowen's point of view. In house OL coach with previous play calling experience is a pretty good resume to be tOSUs OC in a couple years. Sucks from a timing standpoint and I thought he was getting better each year, but this move absolutely makes sense for Bowen.
I'm surprised. My impression was that he really wanted to be calling plays and that's why we didn't hire him as TE or OL coach with Glenn as OC.
Money, winning more than 6 games in a season and players wanting to come play at your school without having to recruit that hard sounds pretty nice.
Big dogged again.
This isn't even big dogged. This is a signal that we aren't a serious player anymore.
No this is big dogged. Coordinators and HCs taking a position step down for a pay raise at a higher profile program is the new era of coach poaching.
Bitter confirms it in case anyone wondering if this is just a rumor
yeah sure. Its going to be Brent Davis isn't it.
Would that be bad?
It does nothing to elevate the status of VT so IMO its not good.
I mean, who tf are are we going to get at this point in the process? Nobody good. Get ready for a D2 OC hire or a position coach currently at a G5 school.
What's ol chin balls up to. Paul Johnson's offense is about as serious as our program so I'll take it.
Absolutely nobody good.
And I fully expect to see our roster completely obliterates in the portal after spring practices.
yes, the reason this sucks so much is that it's not just Bowen leaving. Expect a host of players to bolt as well- Bowen will actively recruit the best ones to OSU for example.
Drones going to be suiting up for the Buckeyes next year.
No offense to Drones, but he's not an OSU starting caliber QB. He'd be 2nd or 3rd string there. But maybe the bag is bigger that way. I can believe it if our OC leaves to be their OL coach.
Luckily they're all D2 players.
[actual /s just trying to make people laugh in dark times]
Agreed, however let's be real. Ohio State could have pretty much already had any of our players they wanted. This just makes that reality even stronger. Any with strong ties to Bowen....yeah they gone.
Both Drones and Watson noted their relationship with Bowen a major reason in coming to VT. So yea, I don't know if VT will have a QB next year...
And Drones could make for a good TE in the OSU system....
Sorry - our best are not scratching the two-deep at OSU
I just hope "quick" doesn't translate to "any warm body".
Sources say that tech has secured Brian stinespring as tech's next OC
There is no /S on this and sadly, at this point I would take him.
Leg, however:
/sss
Stiney or Loeffler would be an upgrade over anyone we are going to be able to hire at this point.
But they wouldn't take the job because they would get more to be OCs almost anywhere else
Justin Fuente.
You're giving Stiney too much credit. Dude is the HC at Roanoke College these days.
Chat, are we cooked?
yes, and the wild thing is that it isn't even the worst staffing decision news i've gotten today.
my boss, who is an absolute gem --- efficient and effective, very competent, lets the technical folk be technical, isnt afraid to be the one to stick out their neck and take responsibility, cares more about effort and results than the political nonsense -- got squeezed out of our group in order to promote someone who is none of those things but plays the game well. all while we're in over our heads with a project on an unrealistically accelerated timeline that now will take an act of divine intervention to succeed.
sigh
Been there
If it's anything like what I dealt with, that new person is going to be looking for a sacrificial lamb soon to prove their authority and it's probably going to pile drive team morale for the long haul.
Unfortunately, I was that lamb and spent all of 2024 looking for a job after 12 years at the company. But it all ended up good in the end, took another role with more responsibility paying significantly higher.
Might be worth polishing that resume just in case
It's all internal. My current boss got squeezed out of my group into a dead-end promotion. If i get sacrificed, it would be for an internal move.
New boss needs me to deliver to have any chance of looking good -- she cant do it and I'm super technical in my current scope and there isn't a viable internal replacement for me. So i feel okay for now, just keenly aware that my success wont really be mine, but my failure will be
Edit: i think in your analogy my boss is the sacrificial lamb whose departure is going to piledrive to morale.
Oh the new boss won the power battle, but there is still going to be a sacrificial lamb to show all her new subordinates that she has all the power now.
Seen it so many times with someone trying to empire build like that. Bulldoze anyone in their way, assert authority whenever they can, and eventually piss off the wrong person, gets fired, and leaves a completely wrecked organization in the wake.
it feels more like one of the higher ups pulling up the ladder behind them by promoting "her people"
Jury is out. Bowen is not an elite OC. We could hire someone who's better than him. But we could also hire someone who's only as good as him and lose our QB room. It really depends on if the hire can keep the offensive players from transferring, and if that coincides with keeping the offensive coaching staff.
Initial thought is that This news a lot more about the state college football than about the state of Virginia tech.
We'll see as more info comes out.
Other ACC schools are paying their coordinators $1.5m - $2m per year and we are having our $870k OC taking a job to be a OL coach a week after we hired a $870k DC
It's a VT problem
Fucking right its a VT problem. We give Mike Young nothing - cause ummm football... yeah... We find an OL coach to take a pay cut. We find an NFL position coach for Marve's salary. We can't pay Kenny Brook's assistants, etc - what ARE we doing with our fucking money?
Saving for a new AD and HC?
Using it to make sure that concessions are reasonable at all sporting events? Nope.
Using it to upgrade our stadium lighting systems to stay ahead of the game in the fan game day experience? Nope.
Using it to make sure fans at sporting events have solid cell or WiFi signals the entire event? Nope.
Yes, exactly my read as well. I'm not in the VT bubble as much as some people here are, and moves like these are becoming more and more common.
I'm so fucking done with sports.
I cannot blame Bowen. I am guessing the money will be better. Plus, there he has a chance to add a Natty to his resume.
I wasn't a huge fan of Bowen...I thought he was adequate but also very questionable at times.
His 1st Half Gameplan vs. Vandy was atrocious and played right into their hands.
I know, I know...he had a bad OL, but he is apparently a good enough OL coach to go to coach the defending national champs and their $20mil roster?
I wouldn't personally be that overly worried about this had it happened in early Dec, I think there are plenty of guys who could do as well as Bowen. Problem is, most of them are off the market now.
The other big concern is when the Portal window from Hell opens up again in the Spring--worries about guys like Drones and some of the younger WR in particular taking off if they don't immediately connect with the new O.C . If that happens, Pry is probably officially done and 2025 is a lame-duck, how bad can it get year.
He wasn't our OL coach though. And everything is relative. Sure Bowen wasn't Don Coryell but he wasn't terrible and he was getting better. He was fine to bring back another year unless you are going to UPGRADE - which means paying an OC 1.5 million - which we weren't going to do. so he bolts at a shitty time so everything together fucking sucks.
Agreed, he wasn't OL coach but his background was largely as an OL coach and a former OL himself.
He presided over 3 years of dismal OL play, even as the O.C. he has to bear some responsibility for quality control there.
Marve got hammered for being an LB Coach with LB being consistently the worst position group doesn't it only seem fair to judge Bowen in the same light?
No doubt this is bad for (whatever is left of) VT Football and the outlook on a potential replacement isn't inspiring.
Long story short, neither Coordinator was particularly great and ultimately I think the "best" decision would have been just to can Pry this Offseason and start from scratch.
No, it's not fair to cast them in the same light. While Bowen can take some blame for poor OL play, it's a different conversation because:
1) Marve was directly responsible for LBs as the LB coach. Bowen was not doing position drills with the OL, that was the job of the OL coach
2) OL is a much more difficult job to coach than LB, one reason why you don't see a lot of OCs also coaching OL and OL coaches don't move around much
3) A good lineman is much harder to replace than a good LB. LB average replacement player isn't a huge drop off from a good player, so Marve should've been able to get at least acceptable play out of whoever he had at his disposal, which he wasn't able to do.
I am trying to look for the positive. We now have the opportunity to try an upgrade with a million plus OC.
Agree here. But my concern is, even though we have the cash on paper to make a big hire, we will still go cheap. We had somewhere north of $1.5 mil on the table and were prepared to go for Knowles. We ended up hiring Siefkes for half of that. I know that we paid around his value, but you would have thought we could make a run at several P4 DCs or even NFL with that budget. And we chose not to.
Whit and Pry have to know what the rumor are saying. Any less than a good hire means that Pry is going to be a lame duck even with 2 years remaining on his contract.
Whit has already demonstrated that he's fine with having a lame duck coach for a couple years. Fuente was cooked after the 2018 season and lasted until 2021....so...
But by God, if it were baseball, he'd be opening the checkbook so fast you'd feel the breeze.
We get it, Whit likes baseball, but baseball doesn't help keep the lights on.
If we don't want Portal Armageddon to happen to our squad in about 2 months time, we are going to need to nail it with the OC hire and after what just happened with the DC process, let me tell you, my expectations have never been lower.
TBH, I kinda prefer this to December. If it had been December, we would have lost most of our offense to the portal and coaches to different schools. Now, the players either have to sit out spring ball to transfer, which hurts their development, or play through spring ball and then decide if they want to transfer after working with the new coach, which could end up being a much harder decision.
-The big boy move here would be to hire Joe Moorhead who is the HC at Akron.
-Brad Glenn is currently OC at Cincy
-Chad Morris offense isn't as innovative as it used to be, but he's coaching WRs at Texas St
-Neal Brown is a good play caller
-Could we pull Marcus Arroyo from ASU?
-Kevin Sumlin is at UMD
-Kirk Ciarrocca is the OC I've always wanted, but may not move from the BIG to the ACC
-Jeff Grimes is at Wisconsin, I've always wanted him back as an OC
-Matt Mumme at Colorado St is the son of Hal Mumme
-I don't think Sean Lewis leaves SDSU HC, but he left Colorado because he didn't agree with Deion
-Holmon Wiggins is co-OC at TAMU but Collin Klein calls the plays
-Tim Beck and Jerry Kill are at Vandy
-Dean Kennedy is the OC at JMU, came with Bob Chesney from Holy Cross and got his start under Dan Mullen
-Dino Babers is available
-Phil Longo just took the HC position at Sam Houston St
-Tom Herman is available
-Paul Chryst is an analyst at Texas
-Jeff Scott is available but also meh
-Jake Spavital is OC at Baylor, but he has a good QB coming back next year
-Kevin Wilson, longtime Ohio St OC is available
-Chad Scott was OC under Neal Brown, so far has been retained by RichRod
-Matt Wells is Co-OC at KSU
-Barry Lunney is probably not leaving Illinois
-Nunzio Campanile is currently the QB coach at Syracuse
-Jeff Redford is available, although he has health concerns
-Nate Potter is the OC at Boise
Some big names out there currently in lesser roles. Will Whit open the checkbook? Not holding my breath, but in theory we saved some money with the Chief Sief deal...
Yeah, I'm not overly concerned about this job opening because of how many good names are out there. But we definitely need to be paying $1 mil at least to get a guy.
You're goddamn right we need to be paying that. The Ohio St OL coach made $1m last year. We cannot be paying our OC less than a position coach elsewhere and call ourselves a serious program. We need to stop being so damn cheap all the time
Some interesting names for sure. Chad Morris sucks - can't coach- take him off. Neal Brown- ditto. His claim to fame is beating Fuente. Wiggins would work. I love Sumlin as just an OC.
Neal Brown's claim to fame is being an Air Raid coordinator at TTU and Kentucky. He's also worked with our offensive line coach and had 3 straight 10 win years at Troy.
Thanks for the list. Some decent to really good names on it.
Unless this has been known for some time, the statement that we will move quickly makes we skeptical we could pull any of the good names.
Go ahead and start the search thread so we can push for page 2 again.
on it
tbh if you put Bowen on this list when we hired Brent Pry I think I'd take 85% of the list before Bowen so that's a positive thing
Same. The primary worry I have is roster retention, not play-calling loss
Question is, how many of these guys make less than 870k a year? Or if they make close to that already, would they be willing to move at this point?
We need to be paying at least $1 mil for an OC. I think a number of them make under $500k
Think of all the great playcallers developed by CFB25 this year! Pry has so many fantastic options on the cheap /s
Somehow, I'm finding myself missing the days of Leoffler, Beamer and Bud.
Time to go listen to Hurt by Johnny Cash on repeat. "To see if I still feel"
The hell.
Ok Stiney back as TE coach and recruiter all across VA.
Then something something offensive coordinator.
We're going to need more talent than we are coaches at this point
LOL oh this afternoon is excellent timing for VT to send out the following email:
On the surface getting a coach poached to go to a much more premier program is what most programs would expect. What I don't expect is for a coach of ours to leave and take a downgrade in their assistant status.
Can't imagine this is a surprise for Pry. He had to know Bowen was in talks with OSU for the position. They aren't a rival or anything so hopefully it was an open conversation and Pry started to put feelers out about a new OC a while ago.
I love Pry, but the end of every half of football is a surprise to him. I bet this was as well.
For those upset that we aren't paying to play, would you have preferred that we bumped up Bowen's salary to keep him on staff instead? Serious question. I honestly don't even get why OSU would hire him to be their OL coach. They have the money to hire way more seasoned and accomplished positional coach than Bowen. You can make the argument that he is taking his lifeline from what is, at best, a very rocky situation here at Tech (that he helped to create). But, he was still a green OC with mixed results that in no way should have been given more money to stay and continue to do that same job. If we're in the market to pay more money (which, we are btw) then we would be better off spending it on someone with more experience.
Also, this wasn't something that Pry knew about way ahead of time so I guess that knife cuts both ways.
It is an odd hire from OSU's standpoint.
He has exactly 2 years of OL coaching experience, one at Fordham in 2015 and one at UMD in 2017.
Right! If I'm a OSU fan I'm not happy with the hire.
Sure, but they got to big dog VT.
Or is it raw dog?
Hard to say.
lol. Leg.
Depends. Assuming this was just a money move (big assumption), I wouldn't hate it. But I'm guessing it's about more than money - the chance to learn offense under Ryan Day is a big opportunity. Probably less risk of being unemployed next year, etc.
Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic (actually, no perhaps about it - I'm definitely giving Pry more credit than he's earned), but I think it's possible Pry is pushing Bowen out without firing him.
I'm curious to see where we go from here... equally curious to see the salary numbers (for both us and Bowen). Curious to see what the #sauces say after marinading for a bit.
2025 is going to be the most interesting/intriguing season for VT since 2020. Hopefully it goes better.
It's so funny, two month ago at this time everyone was talking about Ryan Day being fired
Yeah that was from folks who either don't understand the game of football or were just butthurt at losing to Meeshegun.
How do you do this at this point in the year? This is just a grimey thing to do. Then again if he does it two months ago we probably lose most of our offense.
Pretty shit thing to do to the kids that probably stayed here for you
I think Chip Kelly leaving Ohio State started this so the timing makes sense.
Ok, I know seems far fetched, but saw Sons of Saturday floating it around. Neal Brown could be a really good idea and seamless scheme fit with Matt Moore as our new OL coach. And probably has a buyout from WVU so could sink even more into assistants.
Not far fetched. This was one of my first thoughts. I would have some other guys higher on the list, especially since Brown is an Air Raid tree, but I think it's a very real possibility.
NGl, I am ALL for bringing the air raid to VT. Good QBs want to sling the ball. The days of the smash mouth spread are heading out. QBs don't want to be a battering ram. Also our personnel (deep at WR) fit, and our OL coach knows Brown's scheme. It's plug and play. I bet Brown could bring in a few QBs as well.
I love this energy! You want to fill the stands, go Air Raid make offense exciting. I don't necessarily agree that smash mouth spread is heading out though, I think we're seeing a turn back to physicality. Our question should be, what type of players can we get and do we want to get ahead of the turn back to more physicality and running or should zig as everyone else starts to zag?
I don't think it's a turn back to physicality in the sense that teams want a battering ram QB attack. I think teams want a wide open passing game with a traditional strong run game from the RB position. That's what the NFL is and I think where the top college offenses are going. QBs want to throw and put up gaudy passing stats.
I'll accept that argument
He's been linked with the OSU job. Not sure if a reality or not.
If he does go to OSU, you would think Brown would wished they would have waited to hire the OL coach and bring in Moore to jump-start his scheme.
Isn't this a really bad hire for OSU? To bring in a coach that has NEVER coached O-line and was an OC that had to scheme around one of the worst OLs in the P4. It's like they just saw the run stats and didn't look at how VT got there. The most broken tackles by an RB in the P4 and a smoke-and-mirrors scheme.
Bowen is going to give up his strength as a coach (i.e., scheming around an atrocious line) and become a coach of his greatest weakness (i.e., blocking technique). Although the OC isn't on the day-to-day of the OL, if he sees technique is wrong and bad, he is responsible to fix it by "coaching the OL coach" and doing film sessions in the OL film room. He clearly didn't do that at VT.
I would be very wary of such a hire.
VT clearly has the better OL coach, who is Broyles award finalist, good at recruiting top OL talent, and developing that OL talent in AAs and NFL draft picks. It seems like OSU hired the wrong VT coach.
I wonder if Moorhead is potentially being targeted for OC at OSU. Would explain the Bowen move perhaps.
Maybe, but you should hire the OC first and if he wants Bowen as OL, then Bowen gets hired.
And it's becoming more common that the OC doesn't bring anyone with him, he just does the coordinating. You hire each position individually with the plan to hire the individual that best fits that position. And that's why the Bowen hire as OL coach is so weird to me. He just isn't an OL coach. He never has been. He has been TE coach at various stops, and while adjacent, the OL coach generally teaches the TEs blocking technique.
Who knows. Urban Meyer I think still provides behind the scenes advice and counsel to Day and OSU. He may have also recommended Bowen since he hired him in Jacksonville. If nothing like that, then yeah the Bowen hire is very weird for OSU.
Joe Moorhead is currently making $620k at Akron. Took a pay cut from $1.15 mil at Oregon. Has not had a winning season at Akron, one of the most difficult programs in the country. We should try to hire him.
They already hired an OC. They promoted Hartline.
Great recruiter and WR coach gets promoted to OC. Wouldn't that be analogous to us promoting Mines to OC? (which I would not object to, the guy has been killing it)
per his wiki he was OC + WR, then Co-OC + WR, and now OC + WR again
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Hartline
He has a few years experience as OC at Fordham and MD, a few years experience as TE, played OL.
Ok, so as a fan of OSU, would you be good with an OL coach that only has experience in teaching OL techniques 2 years at Fordham and 1 year at UMD? Why aren't they hiring a better OL coach?
TE coaches do not teach their own blocking techniques. They take a backseat to the OL coach.
Would an OC that has an OL background and knows how to coach good blocking techniques let his OL coach teach bad blocking technique? And in lieu of fixing that technique, would that OC just scheme around it?
How does OSU think this is a good hire?
I literally cannot imagine what it's like being an OSU fan.
Im sure I could talk myself into it. But idk if OSU fans do that.
That's true. Just seems like OSU would want to pluck a top-OL coach for the position, not a middling-ACC OC that had terrible OLs in his tenure.
One of my best friends is an OSU fan, grew up outside of Columbus and then lived in Bburg post college for a few years. We can talk ball all day, but he legit just hasn't ever contemplated some of the frustrations that 95% of fan bases have.
This was also my immediate first thought. Hard to imagine how this could possibly be seen as the best available hire for Ohio State's OL. It's unfortunate for VT because of the timing and the risk that the replacement hire is worse or needs time to install their system that Pry probably doesn't have, but I'm mostly just confused why Ohio State would have wanted to do this. Bowen seems to have developed into a decent OC, VT could definitely do worse but hopefully will do better. But how is his experience supposed to translate to elite OL coaching?
The timing certainly isn't ideal, but for fucks sake, reading this thread you'd think Tyler Bower was Bill Walsh. His offense was barely, and I mean barely, better than the defense last season, and the DC got fired.
Throw a million dollars to poach an up-and-coming offensive coach and let's get the offense installed for spring practice.
I think you're underselling TB, but otherwise I agree. Timing is irritating, but this isn't a death blow by any means.
He showed flashes and potential at times, but as OP mentioned, week to week it was a continual debate whether the offense or defense was the main problem. His offense was explosive at times but not efficient at all. Horrible OL development (maybe not necessarily his fault) and QB development (guy with no QB coaching experience as QB coach not ideal). But yeah overall I agree. The timing is horrible, but I see opportunity to upgrade if Pry makes the right hire. If we have another two month process and botch this then all bets are off.
Yeah, I don't think Bowen was awful by any means, but the idea that we had one good unit with a good coordinator and one bad unit with a terrible coordinator is just not factually correct. And as far as the offense goes, I consider the following rhetorical questions:
Did he take advantage of a deep a talented WR corps? No
Was our offensive line play cohesive? No
Did our QBs look comfortable? No
Has our starting QB made solid progress? No
Was the play-calling innovative? No
Were we one of the top offenses in the country? No
Were we one of the top offenses in the conference? No
Did we have an incredible RB who carried us for much of the season? Yes
So yes, it's frustrating to need to replace Bowen. Ohio State has deep pockets for sure. But it's not like Ohio State thinks he's a great offensive coordinator.
I'd disagree on this. I thought our scheme was pretty creative. Not Chip Kelly/Richrod/Hal Mumme levels of innovation, but I think it was creative.
He was pound for pound (aka adjusting for talent level) the best OC VT has had since bustle (low bar, I know), but he wasn't amazing either.
This is definitely an opportunity to upgrade, even if it comes at a bad time.
If I'm reading the room correctly, we went from 4-5 wins next year to 1-2. Simmer down, everyone.
Sounds like from rumblings online and on X that Pry did not have any advance knowledge of this. Was pretty blindsided. Wow.
I saw recruits tweeting this morning thanking Bowen for a conversation and offer. Have to think Pry wouldn't have him making those calls if he was potentially out.
on the last TSL podcast i listened to...think it was recorded late last week (don't know their schedule) chris coleman mentioned a shake-up on the offensive staff that was coming...i assume this is that shake-up. if he knew, then pry surely must've known as well
I'm not sure that was the shake up. David Teel tweeted about an interview Pry did on Tuesday outlining some changes in responsibilities on the offensive staff, including Bowen's role. But I can't find any links to that interview or a summary of it, and Teel doesn't mention what he said.
Hear me out — it's not a big loss. We will be fine. He was a solid recruiter and somewhere between an ok to good strategist. The timing sucks, but we will have plenty of options.
Looking at the available OCs lists I'm not nearly as upset. The timing is horrible and definitely a blow to recruiting but we can certainly turn this into a net positive.
*coach makes hard decision to move on from weak points in staff; offensive coordinator decides to leave* Maybe he thought incoming DC would expose some offensive weaknesses 🤷 Maybe Bowen probably got tired of fan complaining?
So you go to the most arrogant, whiniest fan base outside of the SEC to escape fan complaints? It's not like Bowen had to take the post-game podium all the time and face the VT beat reporters either.
he's about to learn what "fan complaining" really is
Ryan Day could win the next 2 championships for an unprecedented 3 peat and lose ever game against Michigan and fans will be calling for him to be fired.
To be fair, for 150 years of college football, losing to Michigan and winning a championship were mutually exclusive things. Fan bases everywhere are still adjusting to the new reality.
So, in about a month or two we may have a new OC... cool
At least we have wrestling, wbb and softball
Sorry.
C'mon Softball! Best shot at a team Natty VT has, currently.
Welp. I wish I had a table to flip right about now
You don't own one table? Biggest news of the day
Not one I wouldn't regret flipping. Is this what maturity sounds like?
Look at the bright side, our recruits will be the biggest dude in the room again.
Well the good news is South Carolina will have no idea what we are running on offense or defense now.
Unfortunately, we won't either.
This is what I'm Talking about RIGHT HERE! 13-0 BABY! Yeah!
I wonder what our playbooks will look like on NCAA 26?
Did the new OL coach we hired have OC experience? Maybe find his +1.
I think that's where Neal Brown comes in. WVU has been pretty mediocre, but still better than VT has been since Fuente came along.
I think what makes this so difficult is that we've actually been gifted an opportunity here - Bowen was average at best, and we have the chance to make a serious upgrade - but that opportunity will be absolutely squandered by a feckless, out of touch AD and a HC who's still learning on the job.
We will pay $800k for another first timer from a D3 school, and we'll be told it's a 4D chess move. We'll win 2-3 games this season. We'll be told it's a "rebuild year", and we'll waste another season during a time in college football when it's crucial that we get better, not worse, and fast.
At the rate we're going, under this leadership, we'll be lucky to get an invite to the Sun Belt in the next decade. Forget about the P2. The fall off in quality of VT athletics (especially FB) under Whit Babcock's direction has been nothing short of catastrophic. It should be studied.
If Pry doesn't win 7, he is out and he knows it.
He got out before the storm, and landed a higher paying job with less responsibility.
On one hand, great for him. On the other, extremely sobering reality for the state of VT that we aren't willing to even pay collegiate position coach salaries for a coordinator role.
willing? or able?
I'd argue it's the latter.
There was a whole other thread that we are paying Coordinator prices for a coordinator. We aren't paying that poorly.
Based on last year's standards, sure.
But the standards have changed, and we just had a coordinator poached to make more as a position coach at another college
Even by this years standards, our new coach is making middle of the ACC pay and top 40 pay and that is what they should be making. More experience would have warranted more money.
You don't pay top 20 money for potential you pay that for a track record.
Yes, he is making more money at anOSU. He also went to one of the teams with the biggest athletic budget and biggest fanbases in the COUNTRY who is in the B1G.
OSU also ran the program $38MM in the red this year knowing its a snap to cover the deficit. They're playing a whole different game.
But OSU went with an internal hire for OC, signed an unproven OL coach, and was never going to match PSU's offer to Knowles. It seems they are being cheap (relative to typical OSU standards).
Well they do have to pay that $38MM back at some point. Living way in the red for a natty and rolling it back for a year or two makes sense.
I'm not even that optimistic. Whit is conservative about hiring/firing to an absolute fault, he kept Fuente 2-3 years longer than he should have, loooong after it was clear he wasn't the guy.
Whit will take the "2 new coordinators means this is year zero" bonkers ass approach even if we lose 8 games. Bet.
Whit kept Fuente for 2021 because of the pandemic.
Yep, I have heard from reasonably connected sauces that Whit was ready to pull the trigger after the 2020 season and the BOV stopped it. Hindsight is 20/20 but it makes sense given that the university wasn't sure if there would be a 2021 season
The BOV could not approve a 10 million dollar buyout in the same season that they gave out a 10% pay cut to the entire athletic department.
FIFY
Buyouts (at least at every other school) don't come out of the operating budget - typically donors are tapped for a buyout.
Either the donors didn't want to pay it in 2020, or the BOV didn't like the optics.
In this case I absolutely understand the optics
Yea... hindsight is very much 20/20. South Carolina did it, and they are easily in a better spot than they were at the time, and they've received no judgement for it.
But that was such a weird time for... every person and every institution?
I was a Babcock apologist for a long time. I actually think our athletics, overall, have significantly improved under Babcock. The problem is that the big 2, FB and BB, have cratered. I've come around to the fact that Babcock isn't the right fit for VT, wrestling and softball and wbb and track and swimming aside.
I am in a similar place, but I am not sure exactly what we should do about it. It is clear that Babcock does not know how to operate VT's revenue sports in this new era of big money college sports. If you listen to what he has said, he has said VT is in the top tier and he wants VT to remain in the top tier. But we clearly are not. We are probably a second tier national athletic program, but the gap is widening. So what do you do about that? We either need to find a lot of money fast, or we need to reset both expectations and the complete program structure to deal with our second tier status. You can see many ACC programs grappling with this. It is a tough place to be in a an AD. I am not sure what a different leader could or should do in his position. And it definitely feels bad as a long time Hokie fan who wants to believe that we are a top tier program but can clearly see that we are not.
I know he gets a lot of grief over the Nike deal. The first was a done deal when he got here. The second they tried for more money until Nike said sign or else be a New Balance school for 3/4 of what we are offering.
In which case he should have told Nike to pound sand, and pursued Adidas or UA. Or Reebok, Champion, Cooper, Fubu, or CCM for a few years, and then signed with UA or Adidas.
Fubu would be sweet.
The problem being nobody else was there. They did explore options, nobody else was willing to give us what Nike was paying.
I get it. Sometimes in real life, it doesn't work out the way you'd like to imagine. I just think there might have been a more creative way to end up better off in the long term. Might have been painful in the short term. I don't know. Maybe that first Nike deal painted him into a corner he really couldn't get out of, but it's not like a Nike has a monopoly on sports apparel. I get that it's less money, but taking less now for a chance at more later could have been a move.
However hindsight being 20/20, taking the Nike money might have been the best we could do, because it's not like our brand improved after the Fuente honeymoon period ended.
Gonna play devil's advocate. What would the TKP reaction have been if Pry/Whit ponied up, say $500k more, to extend Bowen and fend off OSU?
I would've been cool with this. It works, and we're happy, or it doesn't, and the whole staff gets canned at the end of the year.
I would have personally had very mixed feelings.
I *like* Brent Pry, or at least what I know of him. I would *like* him to be successful here. Continuity at the coordinator position is very important and it would have helped everyone if Bowen were to stick around...but ponying up that money for a guy who has been fine at best would be frustrating if it didn't end up working out. Not to mention, no one from VT would have outright said "well OSU wanted to hire him to so we had to give him more money" so it would have just been rumors and conjecture and more arguing.
While I think Whit has proven to be over his head in terms of being an AD of the revenue sports, I think he was in a bit of a pickle with this situation.
I was thinking the same. People would have been livid if we gave a seemingly random extension/raise to Bowen this week.
No way to know if we had a realistic shot at retaining Bowen, but maybe Pry didn't think it was worth keeping Bowen at a higher cost. And I can't say I disagree with that line of thinking.
Bowen has been the first OC in decades that looked like he watched tape. He was inconsistent, but some games he called I dont think anyone else VT has had could prepared for and called the way he did.
The issue I have is that I've got doubts we will get done one better.
Loeffler watched tape. Probably too much of it. Problem is he was playing Axis and Allies, when our players were a checkers level.
Loeffler couldn't see the forest for the trees. He would get really hung up on certain concepts or formations (remember an interview with Shane where he said he came into the office early one morning and Loeffler had been up all night doing skoal and watching footage of the 49ers run game), but he couldn't put any of those great concepts together into a coherent offense.
I appreciated the effort that he put in while here and an happy that he is elsewhere succeeding now.
I don't think Loeffler could communicate what was in his brain to get anybody else to understand what he wanted them to do. I think he knew it, but he couldn't teach it.
Also, just to give you a hard time, is doing Skoal kind of like taking pot?
I wasn't clear, Loeffler never seem like he watched tape of our opponents
Haven't seen an Axis and Allies reference in the wild.
Good to see another Hokie of culture
I think VT fans complain about coaches more than most fanbases, so I'm sure we would have hated it.
I think 20+ years of Beamer regime stability insulated us from the norm which is coordinators coming and going every few years
If my time in South Bend and Eastern Tennesse taught me anything, it's that fans complaining may be the very foundation upon which college football exits. We aren't special in that regard.
The panicking over every coaching change might be more unique though
Is it "more unique"? Not just unique? ;^)
It's not just the best, it's the bestest. /s
I would not have been happy. There are better coordinators you could get for that money. I think this is a good scenario for us, we didn't pony up for a JAG coordinator who I would've been happy to keep but isn't worth $1 mil+, we get to hire someone new who fingers crossed is better, and the changeover happened after the winter portal had closed.
While not happy we are pretty much priced out of most good coordinators at $1.375m.
So it's really pointless give him a raise and to spend that money. Sure Moorehead is available but he's been available for 3 years and lots of teams can pay him so maybe he wants to be a head coach. It's hard to think anyone in the ACC would come to VT. Most of the good coordinators are paid better. So now you're looking G5 or Big12. So now you're talk Neal Brown, who was a top 26 offense but had an actual Oline, who's to say Brown wants an OC job or that Bowen wouldn't have risen from 48 to top 30 with an actual oline. Honestly out of the offenses ranked ahead of us were can outspend JMU, WSU, and UofL and that's about it. And Boise but their OC quit football.
A big chunk of Neal Brown's offensive line are now Hokies.
Can we just get Neal Brown in Blacksburg and call it a day?