Reposting from the Bowen thread. Here's a list of names I compiled immediately after I heard the news, plus I'm continually adding names I'm hearing people would like:
-The big boy move here would be to hire Joe Moorhead who is the HC at Akron.
-Brad Glenn is currently OC at Cincy
-Chad Morris offense isn't as innovative as it used to be, but he's coaching WRs at Texas St
-Neal Brown is a good play caller
-Could we pull Marcus Arroyo from ASU?
-Kevin Sumlin is co-OC at UMD
-Kirk Ciarrocca is the OC I've always wanted, but may not move from the BIG to the ACC
-Jeff Grimes is at Wisconsin, I've always wanted him back as an OC
-Matt Mumme at Colorado St is the son of Hal Mumme
-I don't think Sean Lewis leaves SDSU HC, but he left Colorado because he didn't agree with Deion
-Holmon Wiggins is co-OC at TAMU but Collin Klein calls the plays
-Tim Beck and Jerry Kill are at Vandy
-Dean Kennedy is the OC at JMU, came with Bob Chesney from Holy Cross and got his start under Dan Mullen
-Dino Babers is available
-Phil Longo just took the HC position at Sam Houston St
-Tom Herman is available
-Paul Chryst is an analyst at Texas
-Jeff Scott is available but also meh
-Jake Spavital is OC at Baylor, but he has a good QB coming back next year
-Kevin Wilson, longtime Ohio St OC is available
-Chad Scott was OC under Neal Brown, so far has been retained by RichRod
-Matt Wells is Co-OC at KSU
-Barry Lunney is probably not leaving Illinois
-Nunzio Campanile is currently the QB coach at Syracuse
-Jeff Tedford is available, although he has health concerns
-Nate Potter is the OC at Boise
-Mike Yurcich is the OC at Youngstown St
-Dave Clawson is available
-Ken Dorsey is available
-Byron Leftwich is available
-Bruce Arians is available
-Joe Craddock is OC at Tulane
Comments
Dave Clawson. Tell him he doesn't have to recruit.
This is a great idea actually.
Are you feeling okay?
But in all seriousness I completely agree
^^^this^^^made me lol
Seconded. I really wanted him as head coach, but I'd be more excited to have him as OC
Yep. And I think it's plausible as well.
Dude coached at Richmond and in NC. Another head coach would def help Pry.
+1. Would be a phenomenal OC hire.
With Moore as OL coach, I could see this working. But 2025 would be a major rebuilding year. And Pry is going to have to somehow sell he and the new coaches deserve more time.
I don't think that sell would be hard at this point.
If he doesn't have to recruit I'd bring Stiney back to help out there
As long as Whit is the AD (and Beamer isn't the coach), Stiney will never have a job at VT.
Seriously isn't this because Stiney was mean to him or they had some feud at JMU? Lol you can't make this stuff up.
Basically.
I also think we have to move past the Stiney-expert-recruiter thing:
"I'd bring Stiney back ..."
Not that I dislike him personally or think he is a bad human being or anything like that. But good God no! I don't ever want to see him having anything to do with our offense again. Even if his main focus were recruiting, which as Bar noted above seems far from a strength at this point in time.
Last time Clawson was OC was 2008, one season with Tennessee. That year Tennessee suffered its worst statistical offensive season in over 30 years.
Did he run the offenses at BG and WF? I honestly don't know
Feel like it could take a while for his system to mesh with our roster.
Well played
Thank you. I have resigned to trying to find humor in our current situation. All I can do at this point.
Some good names on that list but if I were a betting man, I'm putting my money on 'the field' as far as who the actual hire will be
Darin Hinshaw - Purdue QB Coach. Previously OC at UCF.
slight problem.. B1G assistants make more than ACC coordinators
List all your good candidates. mhm. Great. Now throw that list out. We don't need that.
And replace it with a list of all the WR coaches in the NFL. Circle any WR coaches with OC experience at FCS or lower level.
A couple formerly great OC's who flamed out as HC's on this list. Wouldn't hate to see us go with one of those-- Sumlin, Chryst, Morris. Some guys are awesome coordinators but just don't have the skillset to be HC's. Might be nice to counterbalance the relatively-young Siefkes with a more seasoned OC.
Correct and they can help Pry learn when to call a fucking timeout perhaps too.
Yes. This is an opportunity for Pry to correct his original sin of hiring two extremely green coordinators right off the bat.
Well then don't you worry, we hired a guy who was a DC at Wofford 7 years ago to fill in that knowledge gap! Thank God we aren't green at DC anymore!
fair
Fair is acknowledging that Marve and Siefkes are nothing alike in their respective job histories, and that having Siefkes + e.g. Chryst is not the same as having 2022 Marve + Bowen. One green P4 coordinator isn't two. I'll believe it when it happens though
I don't think Chryst flamed out as HC. He was really good for a few years, I don't think he adapted to the change in the cfb landscape or the pandemic well. I was surprised when he got fired.
A lot of good names on that list.
Shame we aren't going to hire any of them
The real question here is, who is desperate enough to come be underpaid at a school where you're probably going to have a lot of talent leave in the spring portal and a head coach on a scalding hot seat entering the year with likely unrealistic expectations to attain.
Probably a guy who doesn't currently have a job or is an analyst
Jerry kill?
homerun if you ask me, but no way it happens with his health issues
Whoever you hire, you have to do it fast, and without losing key offensive coaches like Mines, Davis, Moore or key players in the spring portal. Tall order. I feel like we may have to roll with an internal promotion - which is probably not going to end well.
That brings up some good points and some questions. With the timing of this change, a new OC needs to be identified and hired fast. Will he be ok with keeping current staff? Often a coach or two is held over for continuity but most of the time the new guy wants to bring in his guys. I guess that hurdle could possibly be mitigated with a high enough salary to tempt a guy to take that arrangement. Which brings up a second question, could the new guy even fill out a staff this late if he wanted to bring in his own hires?
A comment was made that the Bowen hire at OSU took Pry by surprise so we know we are way behind in this situation.
Taking all that into consideration, I agree an internal promotion may be what we likely wind up with at the end of the day.
Agreed - I could also see a situation where an experienced playcalling is brought in, but we promote someone internally (who has a good handle on the offensive scheme) to be co-OC.
Chryst was actually doing alright as a head coach at Pitt, but then momma called and he went home to Wisconsin where he couldn't quite make it work (although wasn't an absolute failure; was surprised when he was fired). He would run the sort of run first offense that Pry says he wants, but no idea how much he wants to be in a daily coaching role again.
Of course, I'm also evaluating all of these candidates on who would make a good interim HC if Pry goes down...
You have the order of his success wrong. Chryst was mid at Pitt, and then actually did really well at Wisconsin until the pandemic season. Seasons:
10-3 (2nd in West)
11-3 (won West, Cotton Bowl)
13-1 (9-0 in conference, won West, Orange Bowl)
8-5 (2nd in West)
10-4 (won West, Rose Bowl)
4-3 (pandemic)
9-4 (2nd in West)
2-3 (fired after 5 games)
Head coach for 6 full, non-pandemic seasons:
-6 regular season winning records (100%)
-Made 3 Big 10 Championship Games (50%)
-3 New Years Six Bowls (50%)
-4 ten-win seasons (67%)
-5 nine-win seasons (83%)
-6 bowl games (100%)
-5 bowl wins (83%) plus won their bowl game during the pandemic season
-4 finishes in the AP Top 25 (67%)
-2 finishes in the AP Top 10 (33%), highest finish #7 in 2017
Back in 2019, even 2020 and 2021, there were articles and podcasts calling him one of the best coaches in the country.
Ricky Rahne. Similar salary at present, and in the Pry coaching tree. We can probably bump the salary.
Not saying it's what I pick. Just saying it's an option that seems likely.
At the very least, it might feel good to big-dog ODU after getting big-dogged ourselves.
counterpoint: it would exacerbate the embarrassment of losing to them in their high school stadium (if Pry could hang on until 2027 when we go back)
Which loss in particular?
He seems like he knows how to exploit a team's weakness and his teams always seem to play 4 quarters of football, so that would at least be an improvement.
Ja'Juan Seider or Ty Howle has a chance to do something absolutely hilarious
Fontel Mines is probably our next OC if we're being honest.
We wouldn't be complaining about his crutin' chops.
As long as it is not anyone who has been VT's OC in the past 20 or so years, I'll keep an open mind to whoever we bring in.
What has Ricky Bustle been up to lately?
Pry was his DC for 4 years at ULL
I'm starting with people named Stinespring and moving forward from there as my line in the sand. No idea what Bustle is doing. Not sure he is alive or not.
Edit: he is a high school coach now, and age 71. And has been > 20 years since at Tech.
"Rickey Norman Bustle[1] (born August 23, 1953) is an American football coach and former player. He is the Head football coach at Athens Christian School in Athens, Georgia, a position he had held since 2021."
You know what?
Put in a call to norfolk state.
I prefer my OC watch film
IYKYK
Maybe Mike's dad is available.
John David Baker ECU OC/QB Coach
Co-OC and Tight Ends Coach at Ole Miss before the move.
What's that Fuente guy up to nowadays...?
Cashing VT checks.
Great he's already on the payroll!
The real question is whether or not his OC salary from VT would offset any of that HC buyout. Why pay someone else when we're already paying Fuente *taps forehead*.
If Brown and VT really want to throw the bird at the cousins maybe we can convince him to be our OC for $1 and spend the rest of the money on the roster.
I've read that the contract stipulates that his new salary has to be "fair market value," meaning you can't pay him sham consideration like $1. But there's some flexibility. We could offer him the same as what Bowen made, and say we'll give you another 8-900k as assistant salary pool or throw it toward NIL potentially. Some very big upside here with Brown's buyout situation.
I really hope we go with a "median" salary for his first year and escalation clause to whatever his real salary here would be after his buyout is complete. Use those saved funds and put them towards offensive players for his scheme. I think that would be a hell of a way to sell the contract to him. He is looking to coach again so this would make a ton of sense for him and he gets to reunite for coach Moore.
Hear me out. We hire Ken Dorsey. NFL experience. No recruiting experience but being a Miami alumni he knows how to pay players. More importantly ESPN can give us great publicity because the U will be back! Boom!
/s
Non sarcastically, I should've put him on this list. Just fired by the Browns, but spent the entire season with backup QBs on a bad team. Previously was fired as OC from the Bills, BUT he was the QBs coach who helped develop Josh Allen. In his first year as OC in Buffalo they finished 2nd in points. Not my top choice, but not sure he's a dud as an OC.
EDIT: added to list
At 1.8 million, we can't afford him.
Well he was making 1.8, now he's making 0.
Exactly. Thank you. We can afford him because we don't have to poach him from somewhere else.
As a Bills' fan, I don't hate this. Would go with Dave Clawson first personally, but would not react negatively to Dorsey.
He's headed to the Cowboys.
Brent Davis?
My top 5 list of possible candidates as of today:
1) Joe Moorhead
2) Kirk Ciarrocca
3) Jeff Grimes
4) Brad Glenn
5) Paul Chryst
I would be ecstatic about any one of these
Current salaries
Moorhead (HC Akron) = $620k
Ciarrocca (OC Rutgers) = $1.475 million
Grimes (OC Wisconsin) = $800k
Glenn (OC Cincinatti) = $700k
Chryst (Offensive analyst Texas) = $100k plus he got $10k for moving expenses. He got $11 million from Wisconsin with no mitigation language.
Wait so you mean to tell me the OC at Rutgers makes half a mil more than our coordinators? Rutgers.
1) he's really good
2) B1G money
3) We can and should pay for a coordinator like that
4) That was after a raise. He was not hired for that salary
He's also been coaching since around the time that Siefkes, Bowen and Marve were born, including OC duties dating back to 2002.
He should absolutely be making more.
All valid points. Just wish we could pony up for someone like that
Amen to that. Until we do, we'll continue to be mid
Paul Chryst is a home run hire.
And by now any lingering Pitt stench would be gone, right?
Does that ever really go away?
I mean probably not, RicRods dogs were just dragging the poop that is Pitt through his house on their schedule reveal video
i mean they say you are what you eat
That's gold, Jerry, GOLD!"
It's also why narduzzi is such a dick lmaoooooo gottteeemmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Grimes has had some good offenses but quite a few duds over the last half decade.
Brad Glenn was a hot name 3 years ago, but hasn't worked out at Cincy. Unclear if that's a Glenn issue or a Satterfield issue.
I'm sus about Paul Chryst. That would require a complete change of offensive philosophy. He's also never had to deal with an OL this bad at Pitt or Wiscy.
I love Ciarroca's scheme, but it will take time to implement, and we don't have time.
We need a guy who can do more with less, who is creative, and preferably who runs (or can run) a scheme similar to Bowens (don't have time to implement a new scheme). Moorhead 100% fits that bill. Glenn would too I think.
Let's do something funny
Call him, tell the media we're flirting with the idea of bringing him back, and then tell him "Stay at Home"?
Whole situation feels like
My ideal guy just took the HC job at Sacramento State.
You know that "Believe" sign hanging above Ted Lasso's office? Yeah, picture that, but whatever the opposite of that is.
Whit Babcock will look at all of these names and then insist that Pry hire the Christiansburg High School OL coach for $15/hr out of pure spite for this fanbase and pure hatred for success.
We are never going to see success until this house is gutted down to the studs and rebuilt.
This whole process will be a catastrophic failure, and current leadership deserves for that to be their legacy here.
Not Believe. Doubt.
Does Ted Lasso's Premier League schedule conflict with ours?
Besides the usual amount of disappointment, what do we get if we hit page 2 again?
A much more difficult page navigation experience, and the laughs we had along the way.
Watch Pry nail down his OC hire in the next week or so, then Stu Holt decides to leave.
Wouldn't hate that either TBH 😂
All the coaches everyone wanted to replace get replaced just on a less than ideal schedule.
Brent Pry 🤝 Theseus
Football Staff of Theseus
Virginia Tech Fan 🤝 Sisyphus
We can't afford Wiggins, he made more as WR coach at Bama than we pay our coordinators
What is he making now? What he used to make doesn't matter
$950K
Quick google says he made $950k last year. If we're not capable of pulling people making that at a lower position then we're in trouble. IMO we need at least 1-1.2 budget to make a worthwhile hire. Plenty on your list make far less than that.
A&M can match 1.2 with out blinking, it's a rounders error on their budget
I'm sure they could if they're willing to and he's willing to pass up an opportunity at a career advancement at which point he wouldn't make a whole ton of sense for us to pay that much for a dynamite recruiter and an unknown quantity at play calling.
Does Pry think he would be a good play caller? Does Wiggins want to call plays or not? Money won't be the question with him.
I spent wayyyy too much time on here every day waiting for a DC to be hired, checking for any news or rumors and was happy to have a break once we made a hire. Welp, here we go again!
Since I'm not sure we can hire an OC that will yield on field results, I'm just looking for entertainment off the field, so Tony Elliot.
Why settle for ODU's HC when we could have UVA's? I like the way you think.
That would improve UVA too much for my liking
I hear Frank Beamer is not doing anything. I mean we already have Bud Foster back in the fold might as well get the whole band back together.
Only if Billy Hite comes back too.
Conspiracy theory alert here
Bowen knows how the DC search went, and that it went poorly. Therefore, he knows he'd be coaching for a lame-duck coach in 2025 and decided to open up his options - figured getting an assistant role at a top flight program with national championship success is better job security than being the OC for a team that is destined for the drain where he will ultimately be fired when the entire staff is axed for going 6-6 again.
disclaimer: TKP is my negativity outlet - IRL I'm really a much more positive dude, I promise.
I think you're on to something, but I also think you're over-indexing on the DC search. He knows that this is a make-or-break year for Pry, and therefore a make-or-break year for him. I don't think it has anything to do with how well the DC search did or did not go.
My guess is that it's a combination of factors contributing to his decision:
I do think it is a good move for Bowen to build out his resume more and become a better offensive mind. Vast experience in different systems greatly benefit coaches with high aspirations. And I think Bowen has a good amount more to learn to get to being a high end coordinator. I think he probably made an honest review of himself, saw he's not getting great mentorship in his current position, and decided to find a job to get that mentorship. Moving on and coaching under Ryan Day will provide him greater opportunities in the future than returning to VT and trying to become a better offensive coach on his own.
And while I get the conspiracy theory that Pry is a lame duck and no one wants to come here, I just don't think that's true. I also don't know why people think the DC search went poorly. Did they miss on anyone that ultimately didn't get a better pay or position? Does anyone have affirmation that it went poorly?
And the hot-seat issue does not affect any "big-name" coordinator that would come here. They all have their own track record that stands on their own. VT actually has a decent roster (not P2 elite), just hired a Broyles-finalist O-line coach, and plays in conference with mostly mediocre defenses (especially compared to P2). Any coordinator would see this situation as a pretty good situation to jump into for a year or two. And Pry will not do anything to get in the coordinator's way. If Moorhead, Rahne, or Clawson wanted to do the OC thing again, it would be a good spot for a year or 2. (I'll note the only negative is a lack of quality O-line players.)
The only OCs that would see this as a bad opportunity are G5-level OCs or P4 position coaches that are fast-risers but unproven. Besides Davis, VT doesn't have the offensive leadership support to help that individual get better.
It's going to be a deterrent for some coaches, but absolutely not all.
I agree. I think it's pretty obvious that she wasn't our first choice, but I think it's also pretty obvious he was in our top 3-5. I don't think it went poorly.
This part, I do disagree with. like I said it's notp all coaches, but many coaches (or at least coaches wives/families) don't want to move someplace just to have to move again in one year if they can avoid it.
In regard to the moving thing. The average tenure of P4 OC is 2 years. (I should find the source for that stat, but that's what I remember.) I think any big-name OC can reasonably expect 2 years, and should get a 2-year or 3-year contract (depending on how experienced). Pry hiring a big-name OC would buy him 2 years (unless 2025 implodes).
Would a Dave Clawson want to stay retired for fear of a 2-year stint? If he wants to coach, I doubt he would be super concerned. He probably still lives in Western NC and has grown kids. He could even feasibly never "move out" of his home and just get a second home in the NRV, and easily transit between the 2.
For others like Moorhead and Rahne, there are more considerations, but if they want to get back to P4 OC, 2 years in Blacksburg would be expected. Moorhead spent 4 years at Fordham (HC), 2 years at PSU (OC), 3 years at MSU (HC), 2 years in Eugene (OC), and currently at 3 years at Akron (HC). Rahne has been much less nomadic, but his OC stint was also only 2 years.
I got downvoted in the other thread for venting a little bit using this line of thinking but I'm pretty sure this is what happened, though I'm not sure how much the DC search impacted it.
The reality is, Pry's seat is warming up. There's going to be mixed opinions on where the temperature is on a lukewarm-surface of the sun scale but he needs to have a good year next year...and I wouldn't put a lot of money on this team being anything more than bowl-eligible.
I'll keep saying it, but I don't get this hire from OSU's standpoint. However, I would have taken it in a heartbeat if I had been Bowen. He may have delayed his career progression a bit (assuming he wants to keep climbing the ranks?) but you're getting paid more, at a better program, with less responsibility, and with likely more job security.
Prior to Bowen leaving I was told by my source inside the department that Pry has a 7 win minimum to keep his job. How having to replace both coordinators affects that I don't know.
Pry's hot seat is either going to make it easier or harder to get an OC with former HC experience to come. They might look at it as an opportunity, do well and move up if Pry gets canned.
That's an interesting argument. Are you thinking that someone would see an opportunity to take the OC job and then get promoted to HC if Pry gets canned?
I could definitely see someone connecting those dots given how often Whit tends to promote from within rather than swing for the fences
Makes sense. Feels high risk/high reward, but I get where you're going with that.
If you are an OC that failed as a HC the first time out (how many were on that list?), I can see that being a definite possibility. I can see them saying, listen my first time I was a HC I failed at this and this. I have learned, advanced, and want a second shot.
Pry has to hire somebody with OC experience. No promoting with no experience anymore. His career is on the line. He also has to tell Whit, I have to have at least 1 million and prefer 1.5 with great resume.
I tend to agree. If we were really considering Banks or Knowles, then I believe your range is on the table.
I am optimistic that we will like this hire. At least most of us - some people just want to hate on every choice.
Hire him!!
Guy looks like a straight out quarterback whisperer. What could go wrong?
In another universe where Fuente didn't run VT football into the ground and spent the last 10 years successfully coordinating offenses somewhere else, I could get behind it. Knowing what I know now, no way. Absolutely not.
Something about that guy makes me think he crinkles water bottles. Loudly.
Why do people even joke about him coming back? I would be perfectly happy to never hear his name again.
Sorry. Couldn't resist. From our visit to PR last year.
Hokietopher : Ever since Coach Fuente fired him, his confidence has been shattered.
HokieAlum6144: Why'd you say that name? You promised me you would never say that name!
Hokietopher : What, Fuente?
HokieAlum6144: Aahaahh!
Hokietopher : Fuente! Fuente! Fuente!
HokieAlum6144 : I'm not listening
Princess bride references always get a leg
"I'm not a witch, I'm your Strength and Conditioning coach!"
Byron Leftwich is intriguing to me, but I'd need him to say "Hey Hey Hey" at least once a game.
I think last time Byron was here was when he was QB for Marshall. We had a dickens of a time stopping him slinging the ball, and they couldn't slow down our offense.
That dude could ball. 2001 bowl game where they came back from 38-8 halftime against ECU he was slinging it. Outside of Keenan Thompson he's my #1 choice for live action Fat Albert.
Been 24 hours now. Any rumors or leads on potential candidates?
No going to happen until we can get this thread to a page 2.
Let's get to work!
20% of the way there
A whole lot of smoke around Neal Brown. Not going to lie, that would be a great hire and makes a ton of sense on multiple levels, especially with Matt Moore and several of his OL now in town.
Couple of interesting notes/connections about Brown that I didn't realize previously:
Matt Moore and Brown are apparently very close, some WVU sites refer to them as best friends actually. Worked together at Texas Tech, Troy, and WVU.
Brown was OC at Texas Tech 2010-2012 and his first recruit/commit was none other than Michael Brewer. Apparently knows the Brewer family well.
Brown played at Kentucky under Hal Mumme/Mike Leach/Tony Franklin and comes from that air raid coaching tree. Bud Foster and Tony Franklin are close and played together at Murray State.
Do I think he's an upgrade from Bowen. Probably. Does he excite me no not really.
Also pop or drones running the air raid would be quite weird.
It seems Brown has molded the air raid scheme to his personnel wherever he has been. WVU ran a more run heavy variant of it the last several years with Greene. But definitely more wide open passing and better tempo than Bowen.
But with scheme change I wouldn't rule out attrition. I also wonder if it does end up being Brown if we couldn't poach some additional players/staff from WVU. If you're Marchiol and your former HC is now OC down the road at VT running the scheme you're familiar with, that may be very tempting over an unknown with Rich Rod.
I would be very happy with Brown
But planning to defend an Air-Raid style offense that includes an above average mobility QB is a nightmare for a DC to try to plan for.
I can't see Drones as a QB in an air raid system. Maybe a TE. But in a system that requires an accurate QB he either transfers or changes position.
Did someone say smoke?
To be clear - THIS IS NOT REAL - but the WVU tweeter who did this made us a pretty good edit if we did hire him
Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if we are talking to him but all the smoke I've heard has been tied back to this dupe
On one hand, Brown has a great resume. Easy sell to fans.
On the other hand, I really liked Bowen's system. RPO/Misdirection is fun to watch, and I think we can recruit to it.
WVU's offense the last several years incorporated a lot of RPO and misdirection. Brown has been able to adapt his air raid scheme based on personnel. Greene ran for over 700 yards last year and I think they ran the ball closer to a 60/40 run/pass split. But I definitely think the passing structure would be a lot different/less slow developing routes. And Brown would play with a lot more variation in tempo.
I will be honest, I am not a huge fan of any system that requires the QB to run 10+ times a game.
Why? Bad for recruiting?
When was the last time we finished a season with a healthy quarterback? I think Jerod Evans might have finished "healthy" but outside of that we keep losing games because we're using a key position as a battering ram.
I think that you can have a QB run 10x per game, but he doesn't need to be a battering ram. See Tyrod.
But the point isn't that there should be 10 designed runs per game - it's that the QB has to be a threat so the defenses has to be prepare/defend that possibility. How many QB runs do you need to establish a threat?
And that running threat ideally would be in designed QB keepers, keepers on options, and out of the pocket on passing plays. If a QB can do all 3 of those things, that stresses a defense out and results in players playing tentative.
100% agree
At least partially. Most QB's want to play in the NFL. How many NFL QB's are used as battering rams? As said otherwhere, a couple of designed runs, scrambles, etc. are fine. But our system seemed like the QB was more a battering ram with Drones that a precision scamper.
That said a mobile quarterback who can move outside of the pocket, scramble when necessary, and throw a strike downfield accurately? Chef's kiss.
Yea, I mean if you can recruit Diego Pavias (and I think/hope Belfort could be of that ilk) then sign me up.
I like the way the Ravens used Lamar in '24 but they had to get a Derrick Henry to pull it off. We ain't got one.
Um only the ravens got one, and I dont think anyone else has ever had one other than Bama and titans
Thank you.
Anybody tracking flights this weekend?
Would you fly or drive from WVU?
When an option otherwise presents itself, you do not drive through west virginia
Then he'd miss the Southern X stop... maybe this is why our recruiting is lacking.
One of my buddies in Grad school once described Southern X as "the place to go if you're into C section scars and missing teeth"
Aaaah good old parasite city, across the boarder at Harrisonburg. You have to bring your own alcohol to that one.
I never went, but I did meet a guy at Lake Moomaw one time who claimed to be a descendant of General Custer, and he loved that place
Back in the day you stayed away from that place when JMU was on break. During regular session though, there were quite a few students that worked there and it wasn't bad.
Maybe we can get Southern X to sponsor some NIL deals or pay to put some ads on the field. Southern X and Blue Chew
Well, as long as you don't have to stop, it is a pretty drive.
I have to drive from Chicago to DC and WV is my favorite state to drive through. Also driving from Blacksburg to Pittsburgh is fantastic.
This was my college commute. Speed trap in summersville aside, it's a pretty drive.
This was also my college commute.
I have a somewhat long story involving the nationally famous Summersville, WV speed trap.
Bottom line, I did not pay a dime to Summerville.
Very surprised at one very conspicuously absent name that i was certain would be mentioned as a candidate by now -- Egbert
Valid. I'll take IPAs and Porters over jet sweeps any day. His brews can really get after ya.
Please, stand by.
Due to my work schedule, I have not yet had the opportunity to confer with my wife and family.
If we go air raid can we please call it the flying gobbler offense?
I'm still mad that we passed up the opportunity to call the Gregg Boone wildcat the thunderchicken and went with wild turkey instead.
Lol that would've been amazing, but probably went over too many people's heads. Wild turkey is pretty straightforward and already tied into a lot of Hokies gameday traditions.
TBH it took me until typing that last comment to make the connection to Wild Turkey I forever thought it was just a lame injection instead of cat.
I don't know. The flying gobbler trick did not work out too well at WKRP in Cincinnati.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiSkjcl9yW4
"oh the humanity!"- best episode of a fantastic show!
"As God as my witness I thought turkeys could fly!"- side story- in my early years at VT(not sure if it was 83 or 84), the San Diego chicken attended a Hokie football game. I have a distinct memory of him being passed up hand over hand from the field level all the way to the top row. At that point, he was quickly rescued and let down as some intoxicated students were yelling "see if the chicken can fly...".
I was at that game in the Corps! Thanks for the happy memory 😁👍
Another fun fact, my 10th grade social studies teacher looked exactly like Doctor Johnny Fever.
This happened to the Akron Zip but people got a bit out of hand between "passing" and punching. School/Corps had to do a public apology.
Leg
I was never a huge fan of this show in general, but yeah that was one of the best episodes they ever produced.
One of, if not the funniest episodes of any show I've ever seen. Loved that show. Team Bailey, btw.
The names I'm seeing the most are Joe Moorhead, Neal Brown, and Ricky Rahne. All would seem to be candidates we could actually land.
Thoughts? Pros and cons of each?
How about Moorhead as OC/Asst. HC and Rahne as QB coach/asst. OC.
I doubt Rahne leaves a HC spot for anything less than a OC/AHC
Why do we want fucking ODU's coach again? seriously? That's where we are? just because Pry knows him? ODU sucks. We should not want their coaches. FFS
Akron is definitely worse. But Moorhead has been a successful OC every where he's gone. He would make playing Miami have a little more intrigue too.
People say Rahne runs an innovative offense, but idk. I think VT could do worse, but should do better. I dont think it would be Rahne anyways. I have never seen Pry doesn't really talk about him like they're friends, but he does for just about everyone else he worked with.
Moorhead has been the OC at 5 different stops and the HC a Miss St and now Akron....he's significantly more qualified than Rahne.
Moorhead would be a great hire, given our status- totally mid acc team at best. IIWII
Hayden Fox would be more appropriate
Yeah I mean he was OC for a single season at Penn St but other than that short stint his resume is very underwhelming. I'd take Brown, Clawson, Moorhead well before I even talked to Rahne
I'd rather take ODU's OC. Put up crazy numbers at Fordham, has done a decent job with garb talent at ODU. Better OC than Rahne imo. Still wouldn't have him in the top 20 of who we should get
I agree that Rahne shouldn't come in as OC, but he's not excelling at ODU and might consider a P4 QB coach position with an opportunity to grow under Moorhead/Brown, possibly into an OC when they move on.
While Moorhead/Brown have also coached QB's, Pry seems set on the walk-around coordinator model.
When he made Bowen a walk around coordinator he walked on over to Ohio St so maybe we should reconsider that model.
/s
Why do we want a former Penn St. OC who moved on to a head coach job to come and be our OC? Whose offense put up 30 points a game last year despite being raided for any talent by any big school that was interested? His offense has improved each of the last three years, from 19 ppg to 24 to 30. Of course they're not going to the playoff, it's ODU. That doesn't mean there isn't coaching talent there.
What would make you happy? He's got P2 OC experience and head coaching experience. That's two big check boxes, and it might be realistic. Bill O'Brien isn't coming here. We're not going to somehow hire Lincoln Riley to come run our offense. In the scheme of the possible, is there a name you wouldn't complain about?
As stated above I think Decker is probably more of that equation than Rahne himself. Decker's a
Hueple protégéruns Hueple's offense and I imagine will eventually run the ranks of CFB. As silly as it sounds I would be more excited if we hired Decker than Rahne.You know what my issue is with ODU, Liberty, App State Dick Riding? It's just that. Hey ODU is in the state of virginia, so we must ride their dick and claim their coaches are good. They - fucking - suck. Why aren't we looking at VMI's coaches?
That's not what anybody's saying dude. ODU sucks. Rahne might not.
I tend to agree. My PSU friends happy when he left. Didn't think his offenses were that prolific.
Joe Moorhead on the other hand... SIGN ME UP
Moorhead would be a huge hire. But I don't understand why he'd go from Oregon OC —> Akron HC —> Hokies OC?
Not doing well at Akron which is a really difficult, low-resourced job. Coach at VT for 2-3 years for more money, remind people how good you are, jump ship to JMU when Bob Chesney gets a power conference job.
Q: Why not go to a bigger program if your plan is to go back to OC to get a better HC gig?
A: He knows Pry and knows how to work with Pry. He would have autonomy that he might not have at a bigger program.
Correction: Fordham HC --> PSU OC --> Miss State HC --> Oregon OC —> Akron HC —> Hokies OC (plz)
Because he wants out of Akron and wants a raise? Maybe he thinks he can land a better OC/HC job after VT?
You ever leave a job to take a different one with less responsibility and more pay?
I would be happy with Moorhead (maybe ignorantly as I don't know what scheme/system he runs) however the smoke around Brown seems pretty heavy atm.
I have an informed WVU alum/coworker who originally brought the smoke to my attention. He doesn't have any really spicy sauces, however he is convinced it is a done deal.
Browns best wins were against Fuente- pass.
as HC, yes. But, as OC, I think it's workable
Look either Brown is a bad coach who underperformed at WVU OR he's a good coach and WVU is a bad program that you can't win at.
DC, considering your deep hatred of WVU, I think you should be pushing the second narrative, not the first.
Also, we're not talking about Brown as a head coach. We should be looking at his candidacy through the OC lens.
Who's hiding out doing recon at the airport? I can't believe we don't even have flight tracker updates yet!
Given the amount of attention and time we're spending discussing Neal Brown, I think it is safe to say it is not going to be Neal Brown
Not going to be Neal Brown...
Not going to Be...
It's Neal Brown confirmed! /s
my mountainoid cousins think it's brown and they're raging
Someone find out who the Raiders kickoff tee recovery person is. They are an odds on favorite
Seeing a lot of Neal Brown in this thread. But the real heads know smart money is on Complete Rando From Trash NFL Team
This article talks about Neal Brown's payments from his WVU contract. At first, I thought he would be crazy to jump into another job. However, WVU will still pay him the difference on any football related salary to match what his compensation was through their university. Whit loves a bargain and I would bet money he is the guy.
Hopefully I interpreted all of that correctly. It is Friday night haha.
Neal Brown
I've been reading more about him and Matt Moore, and this just makes so much sense on a number of levels. Didn't realize Moore also was coached by Mumme and Mike Leach at Valdosta State, and later worked for Tony Franklin and Mike Leach. I would be extremely excited to bring in guys from that coaching tree who have a lot of work history together. I also think their system would work very well with our personnel. Maybe they bring in another QB after the spring, but I would love to see what Brown can do working with Drones and Pop. The Air Raid passing scheme is supposed to make it easier on the QB to play fast.
Have you read The Perfect Pass?
It's not just the scheme; the whole point is that you shrink the playbook and overhaul practice. It also requires a QB with a fast release - that is not drones
Also worth noting that Neal Brown hasn't run a 'pure' air raid in a while. If he comes to Blacksburg, I doubt he runs an unfettered air raid - especially given the talent on roster.
It also requires an accurate passer. Also not Drones.
I agree. It would be interesting to see how he would fit Drones into his scheme, but I fully acknowledge that he could want to bring in his own QB after the spring.
"We used up our interview travel budget already, and you just interviewed a bunch of guys. Hire one of them". - pls not Whit.
"It should be a much faster search this time" - Pry.
Coordinators coordinate the same
Sounds like Neal Brown may not want to jump back into coaching this year. Probably will wait and enter the carousel for a HC job next year. Would've made a ton of sense but I suppose he's got 9 million reasons not to work this year.
On to the next if he's out. I still think we have a chance to make a massive upgrade over Bowen if Pry makes the right choice.
I have no idea how we are going to upgrade. Honestly we could be the 2nd lowest paying ACC team, next to UofL, after this off-season.
FSU, Clemson, GT, NC State, UNC, and UVA all pay more than us.
Cal just hire Bryan Harsin who will demand good money once Auburn is done paying him.
Cuse stated they will make their OC a top paid ACC coordinator so ~1.75m.
Wake supposedly pays over 1m
When SMU was asked about their HC only make 2m they scoffed and said if he leaves it won't be over money, their donors also agreed to cover $300m to join the ACC.
I can't see Miami paying less than us. Pitt's DC supposedly makes over $1m and I would assume their OC does too.
Duke is throwing around money for croots so I assume their coordinators get paid.
Stanford was paying David Shaw basically our entire coaching budget. So who knows what they pay now, but they can pay if they want too.
That leaves BC who allegedly pay BOB more than we pay Pry, so I don't know but we're looking at bottom 3 in coordinator pay.
We can get a fired coach that is getting paid from another school, but straight up OC we need to be thinking about doubling Bowens salary or we go the Sam route and get an up amd comer and hope for the best.
Oh Lordy Lou, whatever will we do???
Paying young, inexperienced coordinators sub 1M doesn't mean that a more experienced one wouldnt' be paid more
Yeah, of course everyone pays more than us, we currently pay $0. Previously we paid a guy who's probably a JAG coordinator with unrealized upside what he's worth. If we paid him more, we'd be overpaying him. That salary puts us in the market for a good coordinator. Last year only Clemson, Wake, and UNC paid over $1 million for an OC. That number has gone up, but not only can we afford to pay over $1 million, but maybe the incoming OC realizes that money is better spent on players than on themselves.
I agree we shouldn't have paid Bowen to stay, I just don't see how we can get massive increase from the next guy. Why would a OC come here if it's better to pay the players, ever other P4 is doing that too.
Looking at the OCs from last season the ones that had better offenses than us basically are WVU, WSU, UofL, and JMU (BSU OC quit football) that we can out bid. Both Clemson and Wake had worse offenses than us last season.
I am extremely skeptical we are going to get some one that is a big increase from him. Now maybe Moore coaching the offensive line makes that an much easier job and we have a better offense but it's hard to say Bowen wouldn't have done better with a competent line.
9 million reasons could pretty much talk me out of ever working anything other than a fun job, ever again.
Is it just me or is this thread not as active as the original DC thread was? I know for myself I haven't been on as much as I thought I would. Maybe we're all just tired of having to go through this again and just want a hire to be made already!
Agree. Seems much slower action here. Keeping looking and expects double digit comments and only 1 or 2. It will takes months to get to that 1000 marker and we know it needs that 1000+ before the trigger gets pulled on the new OC.
I feel like maybe we're all emotionally exhausted after the last search, and/or this news was a gut punch that immediately killed enthusiasm.
We suck, we know it, and that's not a super fun place to be
Well and the DC search some how produced better than expected and disappointing results simultaneously.
It's been less than a week, it took over a month to get to 1k comments, so we're on track. People are a little tired from the previous search. We are the lone team in this market right now AFAIK so there's no other news for the chicken littles on this board to overreact about.
I feel like we've exhausted the list of good candidates and most of them are known so there's only so much discourse to be had. Of course naturally we'll hire someone not on the list.
We havent discussed who the best Joker or Batman was.
Who is the best Loony Toon?
Tasmanian Devil or Wiley Coyote.
I lean towards the coyote for obvious reasons
I won't argue that Wile E. isn't the most consistently funny Looney Toon (Tune?) and I've laughed the hardest at him, but Daffy is the most versatile cast member. He can be an antagonist or collaborator to Bugs or carry the episode himself.
Overall, Bugs Bunny was definitely my favorite as a character. But my favorite Looney Toon Episode did not even involve Bugs. Yoinks and away!
"My trusty quarter staff (actually it's a buck and a quarter staff but I'm not telling him that)". Classic.
When he pulls his water-filled pants up and all the water drains into his shoes would have me laughing so hard I was crying.
Well Bosco was the worst looney toon, so not him.
Bugs is on another level of cool, and there's no debate about it honestly.
The best? Bugs Bunny, by a mile.
Runner up? This guy. I believe his name was Fuente.
Easy. This guy
underrated...Egghead Jr
Marvin the Martian gets my vote for best supporting cartoon character.
Agreed- and the only "impression" I do very well!
"Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an EARTH SHATTERING kaboom?" and "I'm not angry...just terribly, terribly HURT!"
"The Eludium Q36 explosive space modulator...."
You remember the good old days when "peak offseason" used to be discussing recruits, the occasional legal issue, and maybe a "cake or pie" debate? It's like losing both coordinators unlocked the quantum realm of "peak offseason" where I see 20 new posts in the OC thread about Looney Toons characters, but not a word about actual OC candidates. Maybe if we can get this one to 1K it will unlock a whole other level of quantum offseason weirdness. I am game to see.
In the good old days we didn't need both a DC and an OC in the same year.
in the good old days, we didn't pursue the OC that we needed..in any year
In the good old days, we wouldn't find out our OC left until the Roanoke Times/Collegiate Times article came out in the newspaper....
In the good old days we didn't need both a DC and an OC in the same
yeardecade.In the good old days we never needed a DC, because we had the best.
I was going to search a topic thread to post this, but maybe this is the right place, after all.
Anybody here reading/listening to Dungeon Crawler Carl? Book #7 releases today on Audible and I haven't been this excited about a book release since probably the Harry Potter books.
The premise is simple. LitRPG. Post-apocalyptic. A guy and his ex-girlfriend's cat enter a dungeon that's being televised across the galaxy, and they have to survive. The AI running the dungeon also has a foot fetish. The audio book narrator, Jeff Hays, is absolutely brilliant and adds a lot toe the listening experience.
I've actually been thinking about starting a Book thread because I've been really channeling my inner dork magic and getting into a few good fantasy series lately.
I've got a few other on my list I want to check out first, but I've heard great things about that series.
I use audible while driving and working on the farm. I have been loving the Longmire series of books.
After moving back to the DC area and having to cope with commuting 45-60 minutes each way, I started devouring audio books. When I add the time walking the dog, washing dishes, folding clothes, etc, I go through 1 to 2 books per week.
All that to say, I've gravitated and ended up settling in fantasy and more specifically, the LitRPG sub-genre. I don't have to pay 100% of my attention to it and if I happen to zone out, I can piece together whatever I missed. The books are fun to listen to and usually have many sequels to them.
I listened to the Making of the Atomic Bomb by Richard Rhodes and had to go back and re-listen a bunch of portions because it was very very dense.
For some reason, I just can't get into audiobooks. I think it's because I have my own voices in my head for each character and the one's on audiobooks - even if its the author themselves reading or choosing the voices- just don't mesh with what I hear in my head and it just distracts me. Yeah- just another way I'm "different" lol.(feel free to substitute 'unique', 'eccentric', or 'weird' for 'different'!)
I don't either, mainly because I can't multitask. If I listen to them while I'm driving, I find myself having to rewind a lot. If I listen to them at home, I can't get anything else done at the same time. So I might as well just read my kindle.
I can't mix and match within the same book or even within a series, so I do old school books for the vast majority of my reading. But sometimes for a long road trip an audiobook can be really nice if you can find a one-off that fits in your driving time
"has a foot fetish. The audio book narrator, Jeff Hays, is absolutely brilliant and adds a lot toe the listening experience"
either i see what you did there....or this is the perfect typo!
Holy crap.... I wish I had done that on purpose.
I agree. It's the perfect typo.
Read the first one a few weeks back. Took me a while to get into it but by the end I was asking myself why I cared so much about Carl and Donut. Have the 2nd book queued up and ready for when I finish Not Till We Are Lost (book 5 of the Bobiverse series)
Love the Bobiverse. I have book 5 in my library, will get to it after I finished DCC#7 in a few weeks.
Jade trilogy by Fonda Lee is really good.
I'll add it to my wishlist. I'm currently enjoying all of the Discworld books by Sir Terry Pratchett. Plus, Death is voiced by Peter Serafinowicz (voice of Darth Maul).
Which one are you listening to now? Discworld is my favorite series.
Currently on Eric, as I'm following the Rincewind arc, but I read/listened to The Hogfather in December and I think I'll be doing that every year from now on.
Have you done the city watch arc yet?
Only Night Watch because that was the book my local library had on the shelf. I'll do that arc properly next.
I have all 40 of the primary discworld novels, but the city watch are my favorites. I started with Guards! Guards!, but Men at Arms and Night Watch may be my top two.
About halfway through the first book! The Audiobook narration is perfect and I can't wait to see how it plays out. A nice change of pace after the heaviness of Wind and Truth.
Glad you're enjoying it! Patrick Warburton comes in book 6 as a guest voice narrator.
Jeff Hays shared in an interview that he originally used Patrick Warburton's voice as the model for Carl's voice, which should be very apparent when you first hear it.
Welp - sounds like the Saints and Kellen Moore are finalizing a deal for him to be their next HC, so I guess we can cross Moore off the list of potentials.
If it's delayed any longer, we are in UFL coach territory, since we can't hire guys that are "still coaching"
Think we are in big trouble if the 'still coaching' story comes out.
Just for fun, a list of notable UFL coaches
-Bob Stoops (Arlington)
-Chuck Long (Arlington)
-Scott Spurrier son of Steve (Arlington)
-Skip Holtz (Birmingham)
-Philip Montgomery (Birmingham)
-Gregg Williams (DC)
-Ken Whisenhunt (Memphis)
-Mike Nolan (Michigan)
-Wade Phillips (San Antonio)
They are well below our price range.
I just want to toot my own horn and say I was the only one on this board to mention Philip Montgomery throughout this whole search.
Aren't all employed coaches still coaching?
I'm sure there is ample beer drinking time in the offseason.
Only when Fuente was coaching the rest of the teams get to work
Oh yeah right. I bet you Pry and Quinn can get after some cold ones.
I expect they work pretty hard, all the time.
Fuck Kellen Moore, I am still sore about that game.
Same, though much was forgiven on Sunday night
So what's the over/under line on how long this OC search actually takes? I hear it will be faster lol.
I say 2.5 weeks at the most. We'll be at 1 week tomorrow. I think we hear something early next week.
I'll hammer that over, lol
What kinda juice are giving?
Half my turkey legs
I guess I owe you 34k turkey legs, and change. You'll just have to post a bunch and I'll just upvote each comment you make til we get there
I just at least want a good rumor or some sauces to hold me over.
Just throwing out a name I haven't seen mentioned.
Josh Gattis
Gross
Gattis minus Connor Stalions = below-average O.C.
Zero Interest.
Fireman wanted him instead of Pry lol
....let's do something hilarious...
I didn't include him because don't want
Best I can do is some Taco Bell Mild packets I found under my kid's booster seat.
I heard a rumor that in mid February with Whit calling the shots, it won't be a big time, proven OC on any level.
So Brad's coming back?
Man, you guys wouldn't believe how long it took me to make this space backdrop for my Lego in that cube. I'm not an arts and crafts guys, and it was so painful. cardboard, glue, construction paper, glitter, and holes. But I think it came out pretty good. It's neat because behind it is a Phillips Hues bulb, so I can change the color of the stars to whatever.
on topic: I see we still need an oc.
Calvin and Hobbes is one of the best cartoons ever. The other one is Dilbert. Maybe Far Side 3rd?
Totally agree. And it really isn't even close.
agree re: C&H (Calvin and Hobbes) but C&H (Cyanide and Happiness) is also a pretty brilliant cartoon series
I miss the continued adventures of these guys. Sigh....
I don't care what you guys say, The Far Side bows to no one.
C&H is #1 (my profile pic here used to be C&H) Far Side is #2. Idk who #3 is but it's nowhere close to the top two.
C&H will never be #1 if for no other reason than it spawned that dumbass, window sticker of Calvin pissing on (insert object of hate here).
Wrong. C&H is by far the best comic ever, nothing else is close.
I'll push back on this, Far Side comes close. Nothing is close to those two though.
Those are unsanctioned by Watterson
Where does xkcd fit into this discussion?
webcomic, not newspaper-based
What's a......newspaper?
I agree 100%! It is the only cartoon strip that has made me burst out loud laughing on numerous occasions. I have most, if not all, of The Far Side collections
1. The Far Side
2. Calvin & Hobbes
3. Peanuts (a classic)
4. Dilbert
5. Tie between Doonesbury & Non Sequitur
carried this Doonesbury in my wallet until 1995
https://www.gocomics.com/doonesbury/1976/05/13
Exactly. If someone says C&H is the most beloved cartoon strip, I'll agree 💯 and it ain't even close.
But don't come at me and try to convince me there is a funnier cartoon than The Far Side. There isn't.
As someone who works in this field, I have this comic prominently displayed in my cubicle.
As someone else in space...
This is in my office at work
Could easily get to a thousand comment OT thread on favorite Far Side bits.
My top two choices are :
for what should be obvious reasons for me.
and #2:
because it epitomized the subtle turning of a common phrase into a hilarious cartoon
This has always been one of my favorites.....
This and Cat Fud are my favorites.
Another one, yes!
A classic!
Few more faves:
My son resembles this .... smartest kid in the room by far...but basic task execution eludes him.
Midvale School for the Gifted is probably my second favorite Far Side. #1 is the scientists in the lab jumping for joy as the ice cream truck drives up. This is so biographical for me.
One of many of my favorites
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Agree with all the points on Calvin and Hobbes, The Far Side, Dilbert and the mention of Peanuts. A couple more I'd add are Bloom County and a fairly obscure one that (as far as I know) was not that big called Downstown. Anybody ever catch that one? The St. Louis papers were the only ones I can remember carrying it and it could be really funny.
I was a big fan of Get Fuzzy, which I'm not sure anyone else ever read
Sherman's Lagoon was/is? pretty funny too
I feel like I'll get tarred and feathered for this, but I love Pearls Before Swine
I liked it as well, why is that controversial?
I don't know, I feel like people hate it
Yeah I also love it. Has all the anthologies in a basket in the bathroom and the little blurbs from the cartoonist about publication, writing, censorship, were pretty interesting and funny in their own right
If we're going obscure I'd add Wright Angles.
Get Fuzzy is great!
The Stealth Basselope
Still my favorite Bloom County.
My favorite was week or so long skit where Opus was trying to help Steve Dallas quit smoking.
Steve is tied to the chair in his underwear so he cannot get out of the house.
Steve gets the ax in his mouth trying to kill Opus to get the cigarettes.
Opus hides in the bathroom and Steve axes open the door ala The Shining.
Opus jumps into the toilet bowl and Steve is jumping up and down (still tied to the chair) on the toilet seat.
Opus calls the police and you see the police station:
Hey Sarge, I got a call from a penguin in the toilet who says a man in his underwear tied to a chair is trying to kill him with an ax.
Ask him if it's an emergency.
He says the Tidy Bowl is irritating his fanny.
Hang up.
I was going through this sub-thread wondering where the love for Bloom County and Outland was. Glad I'm not the only one who enjoyed these strips.
Far side is my #2
Love the rustic-chic flooring look!
Hypothetically speaking... If, at the end of the season, I told you that we would bring in the WVU oline coach and that for *reasons* Bowen would be replaced with WVU's previous head coach, what would your reaction be?
At the beginning of the season scratching my head, at the end of the season happy changes were made.
Quite Intrigued.
Feels like the teaser for a 30 for 30 ("What if I told you..."), but I feel like this one would have a pretty good chance of depressing me.
I would be excited. I'd be worried that *reasons* would mean we had a bad season which would be disappointing, but I'd be excited for the future.
Is WVU football good? Or are they 6-6 with their coach just getting fired. Are we going with they are great coaches, just need a change of scenery angle here? Seriously. WVU is what we are. I thought we were trying to get better? Why hire other medicore coaches? Oh Brown is better as just an OC? That's what we are hoping? They were 53rd in total offense this past year.
Head coaches don't coordinate offenses. Was he a good coordinator before (probably since he got a head coaching gig)? That's what matters.
Many coaches who didn't make it as the head whistle were rehired as coordinators and had great success. Is it guaranteed? No, but it's also not a gamble out of left field either.
Is WVU a bad program where you can't expect most coaches to do better than .500 or is Brown a bad coach that turned WVU into a mediocre team and any decent coach could have them competing for Big 12 championships?
I think that Moore is a really good coach and has not been the issue at WVU. Neal Brown was so-so as head coach and might be better as just an OC (maybe). He's head coaching abilities aren't the best as he made some questionable ingame decisions Having to travel like WVU does csbt help and it has recruiting challenges as there isn't a real pipeline anymore. So who knows if Neal would be a good OC for the hokies, but I'd hate it if he was HC.
"I think that Moore is a really good coach and has not been the issue at WVU"- this is certainly not consensus among WVU fans/alums
You can research WVU's last 30 seasons. They have won BCS games, won bowl games, have had mostly winning seasons. They are not Bama, and they are not the Vandy we saw for the past 29 years by and large. They are what we have been the past 15 years. So naturally while Brent Pry is at THE pivotal point in his career, let's go grab their medicore staff- the staff just like ones we just fired.
I think your underestimating how difficult of a job WVU is:
I don't know if Neal Brown will/would work as an OC at VT. I think there are definitely reasons concern. But I don't think his time at WVU is evidence that he would be unable to run an effective offense at VT.
Hold up... a P4 school has less money and resources than we do? noooo?
There's 68(?) P4 schools. VT is somewhere between the 30th and 45th best resourced. That means that there are between 38 and 23 schools that are worse off than us.
Problem is, VT fans expect us to be a top 25 program year in/year out. The funding isn't realistically there for that goal, but we can/should definitely be better than we have the last 5 years.
Well its the excuse and rationalization for everything. Facilities, support staff, Mike Young getting no money, Losing Kenny Brooks, losing Mansoor Delane, not being able to afford Barry Odom, Merryman not being only for football players, the list goes on.
What's your point?
I think the takeaway is pretty clear... Do we have the cash to be consistently top 25 in most sports. No, not at all of them, and not consistently. Could/should our most visible programs be in the top 40 most years? Yes, absolutely.
Has Pry led a top 40 unit since being here? No.
Could Neil Brown be an OC hire that gets us to that level? Maybe. He's definitely not a sure thing (hasn't been a play caller in over a decade) but when he was, he was good at it. Given the headwinds, i personally think he did a decent job at WVU. But what would he run here? The Air Raid? Would he run something RPO based? What's he looking for in a QB in 2025? I don't know any of these answers.
This post IS my point... lots of questions around Brown- you pointed them out perfectly. So I guess we aren't trying to upgrade from Bowen in any considerable way. THAT would require money, which we only have top-40ish of.
90% of coaches come with uncertainty
Except WVU's OL coach... he's going to be great here apparently.
He's definitely an improvement. Not sure he'll be great here, but he will be an improvement.
So you want to hire a sure thing... we don't have 'sure thing' money. There's at most 20ish 'sure things' out there, and for the most part they are rapidly climbing the ladder/chasing money.
But it seems like we do have money to hire an experienced coordinator. Neal Brown is just that. He spent 6 years as an OC (2 at Troy, 2 at Texas Tech, 2 at Kentucky, each time leaving for a promotion/raise). And he's been an HC ever since.
If we were getting him as an OC after his time at Kentucky, we'd be ecstatic. But he's been an HC since 2015 (including a pretty good 3 year stint as HC at Troy).
Hiring Neal Brown now would be like hiring Fuente as your OC now.
"There's at most 20ish 'sure things' out there"... That's an opinion. What I want is an upgrade from Bowen and Marve. Why you ask? because with Bowen and Marve we lose alot of games. I'd like to start winning. The overwhelming chance of finding an upgrade is hiring an upgrade... not hoping that someone nobody has heard of is the next Vick Fangio or Kyle Shannahan. That is the definition of insanity.
Totally fine with it, their offense was a lot better than ours for the most part, and we had better skill players
To be fair, Brown as OC might be what Fuente was supposed to be. An actual legit, tough to defend spread offense. Not one that on every play over 6 yards your run a scared QB draw- which is what Fuente devolved to. We haven't seen a true spread at VT- ever. Could be interesting.
Honestly, that's what I'm hoping to see. Would love to see a spread offense evolve (successfully) at VT.
Similar question RE: Brown as Moorhead... why would he leave his current situation (collecting fat buyout checks on the couch) to be VT OC when there's a decent chance he would lose his job again after one season?
"there's a decent chance he would lose his job again after one season?"- This is why an OC hasn't been named yet, and also why with each passing day it will be Davis or Mines more likely.
Have you seen his record at Akron, there's a decent chance he loses hi s job anyways
Well, this entire thread is now just an academic exercise. Time to move on.
BUT: The old comic sub-threads were awesome. Thanks for those.
Off to new adventures!
Taylor can get his own thread now and we re-title this the "Comics and Literature Discussion" thread.
Or start a seperate Comics and Literature thread.
The Wahoos would cream their jeans to see a discussion about comics in a "literature" thread on a Hokie website, but that is why we hate them. They can't enjoy anything unless there is some stale air of sophistication around it.
You forgot the overpriced wine and stinky cheese.
Hey! there isn't anything wrong with stinky cheese, or any cheese for that matter
Maybe if it was limited to comics from The New Yorker, they might deign to like it... /s
I think the change in coordinators may help Pry become a better head whistle. No sauces, but I believe he was putting too much time and attention in trying to drag especially Marve to a decent job that he was not paying enough attention to his primary responsibilities like time management, etc. Having competent coordinators who can do their own job could help Pry a lot.
I choose to believe that this is an accurate assessment of the situation.
I also choose this assessment.
I asked Perplexity if VT was considering anyone other than Christian Taylor:
That's pretty decent AI to acknowledge the veracity and that all those other names were just speculation. Seems most AI would just mention them as real candidates.
Maybe because a lot of the sources were SI, which is no longer reputable?
Well AI probably wrote the SI articles so it's just citing itself.
This is the first I've seen a language model provide an answer like this that includes an indication of veracity. This is also the first time I've seen an answer from Perplexity. I don't think ChatGPT does that.
A lawyer once used ChatGPT to write a brief for a court case, which it did a really good job of formatting and making a decently cogent argument. It unfortunately made arguments that were not aligned with the law and included citations that were completely made up. So, I think learning and regurgitating how interpret veracity is a major step for language models. In the age of disinformation, it may be one of the most important features of AI.
My concern is that the "truth" can be manipulated so easily. Just look around today. You have real living human beings spewing lies all the time. AI isn't going to be able to decipher who is telling the truth or not. Heck, most of the voting public isn't able to either.
Yea, Perplexity is pretty powerful - it's goal is to replace google search; it's not a direct competitor to other LLMs that specialize in (what I think of as) conversational AI.
It still has a long way to go...
Structured data is definitely difficult for language models. And it's always been an issue for language-based search engines. I haven't seen a model that can use language search request to know which math would be needed to be performed and where to get the input data. I think a categorical search engine that look for and pull that data would be able to pull it out, and a regression model could be used to learn how to get the answer.
Language models are now used to write code, like Github CoPilot (ChatGPT writes code too). So, it doesn't seem as far fetched to have a language model take a non-developer question, determine what it would need to learn how to get to answer and where to get the input data, write the code, and get an answer.
Confirms for the 456,899th time that there are no true inside sources regarding VT football. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise