Christian Taylor, an assistant with the Bills and former OC at William and Mary is being targeted for the OC job. Same mold as the DC, relatively unknown, been a coordinator at a lower level, has NFL experience and is considered innovative.
https://x.com/brucefeldmancfb/status/1890118984441426407?s=46&t=BhOr4hM4...
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After careful consideration and communication with my wife, we have decided that, if offered, I would decline the position of Assistant Coach with the Bills.
So we're leaning into becoming an NFL team? /s
Move over Bill Belichick! You NFL has-been loser!
We are hiring NFL analysts as OC because everyone knows Pry is dead man walking and the OL room is - umm- not great. Add in a bunch of skill guys leaving in the next portal window and - welp.
Why would a bunch of skill guys leave next window?
Also this deadman walking thing is silly. Assistants aren't afraid of that. John David Baker, who was in the top group with Taylor, went from Ole Miss to ECU last year and his head coach was hired halfway through the season
Not much OC experience, and fairly recent. Not sure we would have been happy with the hire if direct from W&M - but maybe the NFL experience helps. Not sure of his role there. Not trying to imply I want this to not happen just by starting all my sentences with not.
Only with the Bills this season, and as a Defensive Quality Control coach.
16 years coaching in college almost exclusively on offensive side. Was a QB in college. Most of years coaching are with W&M and San Diego. Started at W&M in 2008/2009 and came back as OC from 2020/2023. Looks like a total of 7 years as OC.
"Defensive QC" position as an offensive guy sounds like he was doing self-scouting
Correct. His job was to analyze the defense with the mind of an opposing offensive coordinator and get the DC up to speed on where opponents would attack it.
That could signal two things- 1) the Bills, one of the best teams in the NFL despite having an old stadium in an area that isn't easy to draw free agents with owners who have a mixed record of success (see the Sabres), thought that he had a great eye for game planning and film review/game plan development or 2) McDermott brought in another William and Mary alum for an inconsequential role.
The optimist in me looks at the William and Mary scheme during Taylor's tenure, which did a good job of creating spacing (which Bowen's scheme didn't always do), emphasizes quick recognition by the QB and schemes up one on ones, and was terrific in the run game.
Let's face it. We have been asking for innovative thinking in Blacksburg for a long time. To quote Moneyball, "if we try to compete with the Yankees in here, we will get killed by the Yankees out there." There is always risk with a new hire, but, after watching WVU, I think this hire has more upside and way less risk than an overpay for Neal Brown or someone similar.
Also, I want to apologize to everyone. I work in Public Policy and GR, and the changing federal landscape has rendered me chained to a desk for all non-sleeping/eating hours of the day. Film review on new defensive stuff is coming, but it is slow in progress.
Hey, bud, take care of you. this is the offseason, we can wait.
Translation: It's okay, because it's the offseason. But if you're late with your analyses during the season, I will rage.
;^)
Ssshhhhh
Don't envy you at all; really, really difficult for people with skin in the game. Keep first things first.
Hell, I'm retired and have been fielding calls constantly.
If he was the OC at W&M then he has recruiting ties in the footprint/6 hr radius.
I dig it. His W&M offenses were insanely fun to watch. I just want our offenses to be fun. We've had fun offenses in 2010, 2016, and the back half of 2023. I just wanna have fun.
I'm with you. We are who we are at this point, idk who else we could expect anyway. Hearing the word "innovative" tied with a potential hire is a good thing IMHO
Hey I am good with innovative as well. And if hired he will be one of us and we will circle the wagons, however is innovative just a code word for "hasn't done it at this level"? Kind of like how you see a bunch of town signs saying Historic (fill in name of town) and it is just a code word for "old and nothing going on".
Doesn't appear to be the case.
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One of the truly all-time best 80s videos. And the song itself might be my all time favorite guilty pleasure song.
I'm just here for dcwilson40's reaction.
His association with the State of Virginia is what's most important of course. Him being a FCS resume guy and current DEFENSIVE analyst are secondary.
Pry is playing 4 dimensional chess.
Pry is coaching for his job and hires two coordinators that nobody has ever heard of. We can all pretend they will be great, but they won't. And we get to do this all over again next year as our reputation as a serious program windles away for good.
I don't see how to look at this any other way. I could put some lipstick on the Seifkes hire and thought well maybe we'll put our big boy pants on for the OC hire. Nope, we're just not serious about contenting for football.
like i said in one of the other threads, if pry is going to fail then i want it to be because of a swing and miss with his guys rather than some weird hamfisted arranged marriage. not sure what it is we're getting here though.
Taylor was a hot OC name a couple years ago. Almost landed the OC job at Miami that ended up going to Gattis. The Athletic wrote a feature piece on his offenses. Just because YOU haven't heard of him doesn't mean he isn't well regarded
Nothing says well regarded like Bills analyst that -almost- got a job according to a hack site. Love these posts. Nobody on this fucking board was throwing his name out as they literally threw out 50 names. But DC wilson is wrong. lol.
Honestly, if he is the guy, he is the guy. Would I have like a bigger name, yes. But I am willing to give him a shot to prove himself. Pry knows his career is on the line (with or without the last two hires). If he is comfortable hitching his wagon to these two NFL guys, so be it.
They are Hokies now and we wish them the best. They either succeed together or all crash and burn.
I am 100% giving him a chance/benefit of the doubt. What choice do i have? the underlying point I have been making for months is the overall level of the program and our expectations. Are we really trying to compete for ACC championships? I am asking a serious question. If we are - going into year 4 of a head coach hiring two new coordinators. Seems pretty important to me- so we hire two guys without P4 coordinating experience. To me, that indicates we aren't serious about competing for the ACC anytime soon. That is the frustration. Maybe that's simply where we are as a program. Keep in mind, the key criticism of Pry has been that he hired 2 first time coordinators... well he just did the same fucking thing in terms of the P4/ACC level. Definition of insanity. Could these 2 coordinators be fantastic? Could we get lucky with their major conference OJT? maybe. But maybe to me doesn't signify we are trying to substantially improve the program.
Could Pry strike gold with one or both of these coordinator hires? It's definitely possible and I'm going to be rooting hard for that outcome. But that shouldn't be the default expectation and nobody should be surprised if the team is even worse this year than last. Kachun further down in this thread worded it well... Pry is going "unnecessarily high risk" with these hires.
With your job on the line, but with the opportunity for a full coordinator re-do, why are you cheaping out on your coordinator hires?
I don't think Christian Taylor for OC is that high risk. He's been on the radar of a lot of CFB fans for a couple years now.
Are we doing risk mitigation here? or trying to win the ACC? not snark. SMU was in the title game in their first year. Is it a bridge too far now?
I think Christian Taylor would be a great hire. Is it hiring Dan Mullen or Ryan Grub or Chip Kelley? No. But it's easily a better hire than Bowen in 2022. It would liken it to Clemson hiring Chad morris in 2011.
Question though, was Bowen our best OC of the last 20 years?
Meh probably. Definitely did the most with the least.
I don't think Bowen is a bad OC either. But I do think this is would be an upgrade.
What are you basing this on? What he did at W and M? How does that translate? Or is this the part of the segment where FCS competition is the same as the ACC?
I base it on comparing him to people like Stinespring, Lefty and Corn. I mean, it's not a very high bar to clear.
Edit: Oh sorry, I see you were talking about Taylor being an upgrade. I thought at first you meant what makes Bowen better than anyone else VT had as OC in the last 20 years.
In terms of Bowen- I'd argue Lefty did the same with much less. Mark Leal throwing to Kalvin Cline.
Yes, his time at W&M. I think the learning curve from FCS to P4 coordinator isn't that big. Perhaps you disagree with that - you're welcome to.
I think this is fair, but clearly the past 3 years we have had a glaring lack of "knowledge of how to win CFB games at the highest level" on the coaching staff. I was hoping we'd address that with the DC hire and we didn't. Bowen leaving presents another opportunity to address this and it looks like we're going to strike out again. The formula of first time HC + 2 young up-and-comer coordinators has produced unacceptable results for 3 years. Siefkes and Taylor at least have experience calling plays, but do not represent a serious departure from that losing formula.
Innovation and fresh ideas are awesome, but we need someone who knows how to win a damn football game!
I would certainly say yes.
Let's be fair here. The criticism that he hired two first time coordinators is (as we have seen in the W-L record) valid. But he pivoted from that and hired two coordinators that have coordinating experience. Is it likely that we would have gotten a desirable P4 coordinator to essentially take a side-grade (or down-grade from P2) job for a coach that may have one year left? Not likely. So let's give him some credit for getting experience coordinators that, according to the people around him and outside observers, are doing some innovative stuff on their side of the ball. Are they both gambles? Yes. But given that we weren't going to get proven track record at the P4 level, I'll go with experience and innovation.
"But given that we weren't going to get proven track record at the P4 level"- did we try? If so, that is what we were going for and settled.
I don't know, but if you were a successful (and that's what we're talking about here) OC at a P4 school (forget P2), what would make you want to leave there to come to VT, where the head coach is looking at one year to turn things around?
Other than throwing gobs of money at someone, I can't think of a single reason that a successful OC would want to leave their P4 school to come here, versus staying where they are, creating more track record of success, and waiting for a more attractive position to open. And we don't have gobs of money.
Unfortunately, I think you have hit the nail on the head as to why we cannot expect any big splash hires. No incentive for almost all big names to come here unless we pay them way more. And we're not willing or able to do that.
If there was someone who went to school here, connected to the area, son/daughter/grandchild/whoever decided to go to school here, near the end of their career and wants to retire here ... then sure, it is possible. But barring some special situation like that, I can't see why a big name person would come here at this point to be OC or DC.
This board? Maybe not. But he was the 4th name down on 247's Hot Board when Bowen left. Funny thing is that it's a very similar path to what Joe Brady, of the same Bills, took on his way to orchestrating the best offense in CFB history.
Also since when is Bruce Feldman a "hack"?
Who else interviewed Taylor recently for an OC job?
I don't pay attention to other school's OC searches typically (does anyone?) but I know he interviewed for the UNC job when Longo left
DC deserves to be downvoted for the "hack" comment, but the rest of these downvotes are close to violating CG. Who else interviewed Taylor is a legit question. We know the Bills interviewed him for an analyst position. We know there was rumblings around Miami for OC, but did they interview him?
And we're back on track
The best offense is a good defense or something like that.
Unlike defensive coordinator this seems to stick much closer to what Tyler Bowen was doing the last two years schematically, a lot of movement and window dressing to keep the defense at bay and try to let your skill guys win one-on-one. Although in this case it's with a guy who has actual experience running an offense like that rather than Bowen who was initially hired to run a more pro-style offense. The Athletic article on his W&M time is interesting especially with how often they used two QB sets. I wonder if they will try any of that stuff with Drones and Watson. The biggest issue to me is that innovative offense doesn't always translate level to level. I hope this year with the Bills will give some perspective on what will/won't work against better defenses.
Edited to add: I think there's a big difference between these hires and Pry's initial coordinators Marve and Bowen. While in both cases he hired two coordinators without P4 experience in the position, the first time he hired two people he knew that he had a hunch could do the job. This time these coaches have no prior connection to Pry and are being selected in part because they've been recognized in other circles as being innovative.
Not going to link since it's a paywall, Bruce Feldman did an article on W&M/Christian Taylor in Feb 2023
https://archive.is/64obu
Well, now you have my attention!
Positionless offense and a positionless defense is going to be interesting.
I guess if we're not going to hire known quantities just hire the guys with the most wild ideas and see if it works.
After watching Corn-Fu line up in the shot gun and run up the middle over and over and over again on 3rd or 4th and 1 and get stuffed over and over and over again game after game after game, I'm willing to give the guys with the most wild ideas a chance. I mean, why not?
This article makes me pretty excited, ngl.
One of the comments after the article was from early 2023 and said maybe Brent Pry needs to go over and set up a clinic there...
I continue to believe that the level of scheming is less important than having done it before. I could go to alabama as OC and put up points, but it takes actual skill to do it without 5 stars.
I think you could sell me on Seifkes or Taylor. Selling me on both in the same cycle probably isn't going to happen. 2 wait and see hires on Pry's hail mary year don't give me a vote of confidence.
I think it is less "wait and see" than grabbing an up and coming P2 position coach with better recruiting resume.... Our coordinators need to scheme for and develop the players we have..... and I have faith in both of these guys doing that
Our program went to the shitter the moment we turned it over to a bunch of Memphis coaches. We can pretend there is no difference between FCS/G5/P4- but there is. Especially in the cut throat recruiting world - which is where you get actual good players.
And yet Memphis has probably been better than VT every year since that moment after being perennially one of the worst FBS programs until those coaches that we hired turned Memphis around.
The issue with Fuente was not knowing how to run a program. We are not asking either coordinator to do that.
I would argue that Fuente as an OC would have been great, especially in today's era where you don't have to have a recruiting OC
Especially in the
cut throatpay for play recruiting world - which is where you get actual good players.You keep ping ponging back and forth in every thread between two opposing ideas:
1. Its immoral to prioritize spending all this money on coaches and players. CFB has turned into an abomination.
2. VT refuses to be serious about winning games because we refuse (implying that we have the money and just don't want to) to spend enough money to hire A list coaches and 4-5 start players.
To quote Ryan Gosling....What do you want??
"I want us to not get our ass kicked up and down the field by Pitt or lose to Syracuse in that hell hole of a stadium they have"
The issue with DC is that his overall argument is almost always right, but the points he uses to make that argument are contradictory to either the argument itself or to previous points he's made as he continually moves goalposts and/or the points don't actually have any factual basis. Those two ways of arguing often render his overall argument incoherent. Then he'll double down on the incoherency, which of course drives the rest of us insane.
I said years ago that DC isn't wrong but the way he says it really ruffles feathers. It's not exactly what he's saying, but the way he's saying it that is problematic at times.
I used to really hate it but when I take a step back, peel back the confrontational tone and just appreciate the larger point, I oftentimes agree with him. I pretty strongly disagree with the way he says most of it tho.
DC is Cam Newton?
I disagree with you somewhat on this. Our program went in the shitter when Whit Babcock was hired.
I don't know how to break it to you, but the program was in the shitter before that.
Fuente just didn't succeed in getting us out. Yeah, we got a death rattle in his first year and it looked like success, but it was fool's gold.
Yup. I'm also much more open to being sold on a DC than OC. There are a lot of OCs with recognizable names and offenses. I'm ready for Dan Mullen 2026.
There were just so many known quantities at OC that were seemingly in our price range and even though I knew it was coming I'm still disappointed we went with none of them.
I'm right there with you, bud
Pry's seat is pretty warm, but it's not a hail mary season. If he wins 7 or 8 games his job is probably secure, and we have the roster to win 7 or 8 games. One thing Pry has been able to do well is build a respectable roster quickly. But he's going to need to quit finding creative ways to lose games for sure.
Coming off a 6 win season with a worse roster a harder schedule and 2 new coordinators, 7-8 wins sounds like a long shot
I'd be willing to bet that as long as Whit is still employed by VT, Pry has at least two more years...he's a great talker, and I'm sure he'll convince Whit (and probably he's not wrong) that with two new coordinators, expectations should be held in check next year
Whit and pry are tied at the hip, they know it makes the administration have to completely reboot when both must be fired at the same time. Tech has a hard time making tough decisions, so who knows how long the both last
Whit's seat is ice cold. He is not going anywhere even if he replaces Pry next year.
I'm not sure our roster is worse, and I'm definitely not sure our schedule will be harder. We had the 26th hardest schedule out of 134 teams in 2024. Our conference schedule was about as hard as it could be. We played 6 of the top 8 teams (not counting us) in the ACC last year. I doubt that will happen again.
I have what he is drinkin' but make it a double
"I'm not sure our roster is worse" - I am sure of it - 100%. We had 5 guys at the senior bowl/invited to the combine and multiple guys portal to the SEC. We have - not that- coming in from the portal.
On3 ratings for VT transfers (lowest rated outgoing dropped)
That's the danger with averages - the guys we lost at the top of the range were better than the guys we got at the top of the range. We also lost a lot of guys who would never see the field so they really weren't contributing to the success or failure of the team.
To put it another way - I can average 5 yards right of center off the tee in a round of golf and pump 14 balls out of bounds 7 on the left and 7 on the right. The average doesn't tell the story.
Yeah every transfer in is likely to play we lost a ton of never going to see the field players.
Also doesn't account for the 5-6 nfl players leaving.
We aren't even close to as good roster wise.
Had a chemistry professor -one day in class he had the screen pulled down over the chalkboard (wow I'm showing my age with THAT lol) and had a toy shotgun in his hands; he spun around and "fires two shots" and simultaneously pulled the screen up. On the chalkboard was a duck with shot patterns on either side of it. He said "on average that duck is dead! But I'm going home hungry. " never forgotten that demonstration and the issue with averages.
Also my dad who was a meteorologist pointed out that the "average " rainfall in Richmond is 43.5 " per year BUT one standard deviation was 17l! So 26 and 60 is the range that is common.
Not to mention mean, median, mode. Stats can be manipulated easily to tell the story you want!
"I'm sure my glass is half empty!"
Current defensive coach being targeted to be our OC?
Good God I just got Juan Castillo flashbacks
In his 16 years of coaching football, he has coached offense for 15 years, including 6 years as OC or assistant OC.
William & Mary (2008) Tight ends coach
William & Mary (2009) Quarterbacks coach
San Diego State (2010) Offensive assistant
Michigan (2011) Offensive assistant
San Diego (2012–2013) Running backs coach
Illinois Wesleyan (2014–2015) Offensive coordinator
San Diego (2016–2017) Wide receivers coach
San Diego (2018) Co-offensive coordinator & quarterbacks coach
San Diego (2019) Offensive coordinator & quarterbacks coach
William & Mary (2020–2023) Offensive coordinator & running backs coach
Buffalo Bills (2024–present) Defensive quality control
Danny Coale caught that ball
At San Diego State the running game averaged 2500 yards per season when he was running back coach.
As receivers coach in 2016-17 they averaged 2000 yards per season.
As QB coach, they averaged 2500 passing yards per year.
As OC, they put up 4400 yards in 2019.
Defensive QC is just self-scouting. He's looking at defensive scheme and telling coaches "this is how i would attack what you're doing"
Say it louder for the people in the back. Defensive quality control is probably the film coach, looking at opposing offenses and self scouting the defense for weaknesses.
I actually think this is a good move (and the DC move). If we hire a high-dollar big name and don't excel (like win 10-games) that will kill Pry. By taking these up-and-comers he gains some time and perspective. We could win 7-8 games, have really innovative systems and see real progress.
Yeah, I like them.
High risk high reward type stuff. Not more of the same old....
i dont think he gains much time -- the cynic in me sees these as "well at lease the buyout is cheap when we clean house" hires.
I think 7-8 wins is the absolute minimum for Pry in '25. Unless he has some dirt on Whit that he can use as leverage, a win total like that is going to get him the pink slip.
All of the coordinator hires under Pry have seemed unnecessarily high risk. Sure, there are things you can point to as reasons for hope, and as a fan it'll be exciting and interesting to watch how these new schemes work out, but it's really hard for me to understand why Pry or Whit would want to take these kind of risks with their careers and a large fraction of the economy of the region depending on it when there appear to have been several safer options. Feels a bit like investing your life savings in start ups hoping to get rich when you have enough to live comfortably off of the average return from the S&P 500. Obviously I'll be hoping for the best but if next season doesn't go well these hires are going to be very easy to criticize and at that point I'm not sure what Pry or Whit would be able to do salvage the narrative.
As much as some fans and alumni might want it differently, Whit has an ice cold seat. If Pry doesn't win 7 games this year, Whit will be interviewing and selecting the new coach.
Agreed.
That's 2023 AFCA National FCS Assistant Coach of the Year Christian Taylor to you!
Funny, as somebody pointed out above, I remember reading the article Feldman wrote for The Athletic on Taylor/William & Mary in 2023 and thought that Pry should hire this dude.
Just went to the article link again. The third comment was 'Maybe Brent Pry and the VT offensive staff should drive over to William and Mary and get a clinic scheduled..."
Confirmed: Pry reads sports website comments!
Coach - you can only have one person wearing each number on the field at a time. Just in case
Me too, Taylor won award as best OC in FCS
Who are all these "skill guys" that are supposedly leaving via spring portal dc keeps referring to?
So the thing about both guys are that they are known for using their personnel and not being tied to scheme.
This seems like the old school he'd beat you will his guys and then take your guys and best his guys with them mindset.
I don't know how well whole sale changing the scheme will work year to year at the P+2 level. Sure OSU has the guys that could do that, but watching Hamilton have a defense that wasn't a bad match of two scheme I'm not sure it works well. Our guys barely know where to run as it is, change it up every year and it might be bad. Or they desgin the O and D so that everyone knows what to do innately.
I'm hesitant to hire someone who believed working under Mike London was a good idea.
I mean he did leave, so he's not all bad
I mean it cannot help with his "Time out management" skills. 😂
Thankfully Pry already has the clock management and time out management down cold. 🙄
General question that spawned off of an X subthread I saw. What's the measuring stick for success for the new OC and DC.
OC top 50 offense in year one (using 2024 numbers we would have needed an additional 30ypg to get there from 88th)
DC making crucial stops and post half time adjustments?
Obviously winning is probably the easiest metric to track but with two relatively unproven hires what advancement on each side of the ball makes Pry's seat cooler regardless of win # (theoretical obviously if we win <6 I don't think this is even a question)
When you are spiraling at 6-6 every year, fuck these numbers/stats/deep advanced metrics- fuck that. The measure of "success" for OC and DC is winning fucking games. Period. We aren't going to get more support, better players, better coaches, keeping better players if we don't fucking start beating Duke and Fucking Syracuse. Bottom line. Soooo my measure is sucess is not allowing Dukes shit QB throw for a million yards in the first quarter- let's start there. Draw a scheme to where that bum doesn't look like Marino right to open the game. How about that? How about drawing up a scheme to beat Clemson for the first time since many of you were born. How about that guy? How about an OC that can milk the clock down and win in the carrier dome for the first time in 30 fucking years??? Let's find those guys instead of some bullshit metric that says Chris Marve was actually good as we lose every fucking close game for 3 years.
Advanced stats are a great metric for players and predictive team analytics but I don't think they do a great job of capturing coaching success. So I agree here. I used a top 50 offense because that would be averaging 400-410 yards per game which should be plenty to win week in an week out as long as we're not allowing:
and would also tell us that we're likely able to
I think total offense is a -decent- indicator to winning. Yes. If we are top 30-40 at VT in offense in that stat, we throw parades and give extensions.
Yeah we could easily run a pass heavy or run heavy offense and skew the total offense stat a lot. If we run the ball every play and average 200 yards per game but control the clock and win thats a success to me. Like you said situational football and the only stat that matters number of wins.
If Beamer ran the exact offense post Vick that Harbaugh ran at the end with Michigan with McCarthy and that line - 1. Beams would have been happier than a pig in shit, and 2. He would have won a natty with some of Bud's defenses. That is what he wanted- power football, good QB that doesn't make mistakes. Harbaugh won with that offense in the modern game, he beat Saban with that offense in a very conservative gameplan. If Pry wants that, he MUST recruit accordingly. anything else is throwing spaghetti against the wall. If Pry wants a spread air raid... cool. Same thing applies- WRs that caught a ton of balls in HS, a QB that ran it in HS, an OL coach and OC that are on the same page, etc. We have been a hodgepoge for way too long
Yeah that's the flip side of what a lot of people are pointing to as an upside of both of these hires. They've run multiple schemes and fit schemes to the players they have which is great for quick success but are we going to be able to settle into an identity and recruit to it in the long run (big assumption that the staff has a long run)
At the end of the day, these hires to me signify that Pry has been given assurances he is here past next year. There was - literally- no urgency with the DC hire- none, and we settled for a guy only his family knows. There was no urgency when Bowen left either it seems. This screams that Pry knows he's not getting canned and can take a flier on guys he hopes works out 2 years from now. That's what I see here.
Last I heard from my sauce inside the department (was before OC left) was that Pry had to win 7 games or he was gone.
Good- I think we should take maryland's basketball approach. Mark Turgeon was a pretty good coach- that's not good enough at MD. So they canned his ass. I say we raise the bar even higher for Pry- no fucking excuses. Unless you think 6-6 is good enough for VT football.
For DC, seeing some semblance of halftime adjustments and keeping opposing teams near or under their expected points scored would make me feel like we have improved.
For OC, points and maybe utilizing all of the skill positions, not just a generational talent at RB and a battering ram QB.
Edit: also, to distill one point out of DCs post above that I didn't see when posting my original comment, situational football. Milking the clock on O when up, adjusting on defense when you're getting torched by the same play over and over, having a backup plan when you oline is obviously a liability for the health of your QB, just to name a few examples of the previous staff apparently not having situational awareness at all.
Well the SP+, pre-bowl, has VT at 24th with the 33rf best offense and 37th best defense. (35th ST).
So way better than that? There are a lot of hurdles to overcome especially with Pry as rhe head coach, we aren't recruiting well, we dont have good in game coaching, and so far coach hiring is really bad. The good news with the first hires is that Fontel was the only coach Pry didn't know the first time around and he is head and shoulders above everyone else. So since the OC &DC are unknowns to Pry we might have something.
I was using total numbers we were 88th in total offense. As state above I think advanced stats can look really good but do little to evaluate coaching
Which is fair there isn't one good way to look at this. For a non-advanced stats I would use scoring which we were 67th. A FG more a game makes us 40th. And if you pair that with total yards and we are still 88th then you know the DC is good too because we are getting more points with less yards so most likely short fields.
Yeah I think both of them will be graded purely on the eye test unless they're miraculously top 10 in some big metrics.
Personally the two biggest things for them are 1) Can we not Glennon the game away, if we need a first down to ice the game or to make it to half time can we get that first down.
2) Can we get off the field on 3rd and long, Marve was bad at this. You won two downs and set yourself up for an easy play and then you give up 20 yards is just killer.
This a million times
Well the SP+, pre-bowl, has VT at 24th with the 33rf best offense and 37th best defense. (35th ST).... this alone is why you should never look at that stat again, especially if you like to bet on sports. Save your money.
I think this stat is actually confirming our eye test. SP+ looks at how well a team does in terms of efficiency and explosiveness down to down. Being rated here means we were pretty good on average. When you see a team's W/L that disagrees significantly from SP+ that normally tells you something. When they're winning a lot more, that means that team is probably lucky. If they're losing more than expected, then coaching is probably holding them back. Which I think is exactly what we have all been screaming about. Context is always important, especially in statistics.
This, this, this.
13-0 baby! Yeah!
I prefer to go by SP+ rankings. This year, 41st in offense, and 37th in defense.
IMO top 30 would be good, top 40/45 would be expected, and outside of that would be disappointing.
More specifically on offense, I'd like to see our Success Rate increase, even if it means we don't create as many explosive plays (which we likely won't). If we see this, that likely means that either the OL has improved or we're more effectively scheming around it.
Finally, I want our offense to be fun and modern.
I've got three KPIs for this year:
- Bowl eligibility
- Bowl eligibility before we beat UVA
- 6 wins before November
And as a performance bonus:
- Win a f*&^ing bowl game
6 wins before november would be the only improvement from the huge rut we have been in for 10 years.
The thing about it - looking at the schedule, that could be very achievable, but I'm going to temper my expectation. The program has let me down so regularly I have no confidence it can be done.
So what happens when the announcement is made that he has decided not to come to Tech and we are back to searching again?
We become optimistic about other candidates get disappointed in the next news then talk ourselves into it being a good idea. Repeat until official.
Pry identifies another not current OC you haven't heard of, and people defend it like he is Bill Walsh- just needs a chance at the P4
At least a third of this message board knows who this dude is
horseshit... respectfully. Nobody mentioned him in ANY thread until the news broke. Nobody.
There are lots of people I have heard of that I have not mentioned in a thread.
Never change TKP, never change
Can someone change DC, his diaper is full again.
being honest with myself I expect this any way
Looking through Christian Taylor's history, he has some pretty interesting connections.
The most interesting is Joe Brady. He was QB coach at W&M when Brady was a freshman WR there. And this past year, he worked with Brady. Sean McDermott is also a W&M grad, so they all 3 share that Tribe connection.
He played QB in college, but has coached QBs, TEs, WRs, and RBs. Very versatile in knowledge.
In an interview with a local Tidewater news channel, he stressed the importance of being able to run and throw the ball well. so when a defense tries to take one away, you exploit them with the other. This is a common theme for a balanced offense across the sport, but VT has never really embraced that concept.
He coached at Univ. of San Diego, a non-scholarship FCS school. While at USD, as WRs coach, they won the first FCS playoff for a non-scholarship program. He was soon promoted to OC, over saw some prolific offenses at the school.
Probably best known as the OC with double QB formations at W&M. Oversaw some prolific offenses while there, before taking the opportunity at Buffalo.
I can get excited about Taylor as OC! Pry is doing the best he can to put together an innovative coaching staff. BTW, W&M recently named Bryan Randall as QB coach
Is he actually getting hired or is it just "targeted?
Seems like people were able to confirm they were in negotiations. It's been suspiciously long since that was confirmed though hopefully clarified Monday or Tuesday
I was just thinking, since it's been days since the news broke, I'm starting to think it's not happening
I don't think admin or the VT people who would need to sign off are working over the weekend. Maybe the BoV meet Monday (which is a holiday for many) or Tuesday.
Besides, as per NCAA officiating, we have no idea what targeting is anyway.
Underrated joke here
According to Thamel, the top target is now Phillip Montgomery... which doesn't give me warm fuzzies. Would have much preferred Taylor, but I guess that fell through
Pry coaching for his job. The fact this is taking so long (similar to the DC hire) will likely be attributed to his rigorous search. Or something. I am unsure if I buy that.
All I know is that Pry had better win more in 2025 than he has previously. And he better look good doing it. Another 6 win season with stumbling, fumbling performances on either side of the ball will be catastrophic for him and his career
Really.
Wow, I had really grown to like the Taylor pick. I'm stuck on "innovative".
That said, Phillip Montgomery looks like a decent choice, too, with good OC experience.
The guy has years of experience but his results column isn't all that pretty. It pretty much sucks. From a high level perspective, not good.
After the P2 Rulers of the CFB World post, I am quickly losing all interest, care, and concern. I am just about there.
I took my family out to a late lunch to watch the VT/UVA Bball game. The price alone to do that is depressing enough. The game played out like so many games before. The impacts of the P2 balance has been felt almost full throttle. We are just about there.
The same goes for football. Any school that doesn't have real money (like a SMU) will continue to fall into the Forgottens. The SMU's of the world may spend a shit ton of money and try, but may soon stop as there will be no ROI in the foreseeable future in doing so.
Man, college football and basketball is going to turn into the 4 team playoff model and become very repetitive and boring AF.
Granted it was over 10 years ago, but this isn't all that bad...
Phillips
This espn article makes it sound like it's a done deal
Does Thamel have a time machine? His article is dated 2/18/25. Scratched my head and checked my checked my calendar just in case. Today is 2/17/25.
I'm indifferent.
On one hand you have a veteran OC with HC experience.
Wonfinalist for the Broyles award. Has had multiple #1 offenses. Is currently in the UFL, had a pretty rough parting at Auburn( was that HF fault?) Checks a lot of boxes people were looking for.On the other you have a young innovative guy. Lower level experience. No HC experience. Potential huge upside but relatively unknown.
Agreed. I liked "innovative", but that was in the high risk category. Montgomery has a ton of relevant experience, and has run successful offenses that could score points.
This is a quick reaction. We'll have to see what the deep dive looks like.
I am in the camp of "we need a high risk high reward kind of person"
Philip Montgomery, a former head coach is from Texas. If he's successful here, how long will he stay?
The innovation and youth of Taylor had really grown on me.
If he was successful and loved it here, we may have gotten really blessed with another Bud Foster type lifer.
"Philip Montgomery, a former head coach is from Texas. If he's successful here, how long will he stay?"- I say respectfully- who cares? If we are winning 9/10 games that is far, far, far more important at this point. We have not competed for an ACC championship in 9 years. Not anywhere close. If we are in the ACC CG and Montgomery bolts, so be it. VT needs to drop the mentality that the OC is going to be here 20 years. Win. Just Win.
I think this applies to pretty much all employers these days. If we can get a successful 5 years out of him, it's a win.
Absolutely. In modern college football, staff turnover is often a GOOD thing. We saw this happen at the end of the Beamer era. He was too slow to replace coaches- not just X and O but they get stale as recruiters as well. And in terms of regular businesses, the moment major companies said "you are responsible for your retirement savings"- all loyalty went/should have went out the window. You are a number at that point.
The average tenure of an OC is between 2 and 3 years. Success will get him another opportunity, and VT will be in a better position to hire the next OC. Find someone else to provide 2-3 years of success. Repeat.
We've really gotta get out of this mindset. This was the exception in college football during the Beamer/Foster years. Its even more the exception now with such a wild separation between the SEC/B1G and where we are the likelihood Taylor was going to stay "because he's from VA" isn't high. He already left his alma matter for an analyst job...
I think Siefkes and Montgomery are a nice contrast and will be a good beta test for each other.