Who would you want to replace Pry (assuming the current trajectory continues)?
Four guys who I think are within the realm of reality are:
- Charles Huff (obtainable)
- Dan Mullen (small reach - might have to compete against a mid/low-P2 school/salary)
- Jon Summerall (reach - I think he's going to an SEC school this year)
- Alex Golish (reach - I think he can go wherever he wants this off season)
Shane ain't happening. Who else you interested in?
Forums:
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.
Comments
Golish probably flew out of our reach after yesterday.
But he would have been an obvious Prime candidate.
Took a program with modest history and resources that was run absolutely into the ground by a previously hired Blue Blood Coordinator and has rapidly made them respectable.
Fuck Shane for the record
How dare he take a job he was offered and then beat the teams that were scheduled. That jerk.
He was a poor position coach at VT and it becomes clearer and clearer as time passes that he has an axe to grind. Sick of hearing about Shane. Making a point of talking to the sideline reporter in game and unprompted crystallized his bs for me. Plus the game ball for Frank...ugh. The Beamer's are gone-accept it and move on. That is a huge part of the issues now as is.
Citation needed
This seems like a you problem more than a Shane problem.
Any coach or player that beats us is clearly the worst human in the world and should burn in hell. Double that if they're happy that they did it. /s
It doesn't matter who we hire if Whit Babcock is making the hire. We need fundamental change in Merryman first. Kick his feckless ass out into the cold, hire a GM, and then let the GM spend all fall on a coach search.
It's time to modernize Merryman. We should use this shithole situation we're in as an opportunity to go scorched fucking earth, and then pray to god something resembling a winning program can emerge from the ashes in time for the ACC to implode.
I think this is the best way to go about it tbh. Burn the mfer down and rebuild everything. Don't let any sort of emotion or loyalty towards anyone hold anything back. This football program is broken at the most fundamental levels, and you need to start there. Anything less is just setting us up for more failure in the future.
Sands: And what do you do with Brent Pry?
Fanbase: Fire em! Fire em now!
Sands: What do you fire apart from Brent Pry?
Fanbase: Whit Babcock!
Fanbase: Bad coaches?
Sands (Nodding): So why does Brent Pry get fired?
Fanbase: because he's.... A bad coach
Sands: Goooooood, so how do you tell if he's a bad coach?
DC: Beating Rutgers!
Sands: Ahh but can you not also lose to Rutgers and run the ACC schedule.... Do bad coaches win football games?
Alum07: No, they lose!
Fanbase: Let's throw him into the duck pond!
Sands: And what else loses?
Horse on a Treadmill: Time of Possession!
Fireman: A leaky balloon
DC: Players to the transfer portal!
Joe: Key play memberships!
(Pause)
Mike Young: .....Justin Fuente
Sands: Exactly. So logically....
Fanbase: If Pry loses the same as Fuente.... He's a bad coach....
Sands: And therefore...
Fanbase: Fire him!
LMAO! Priceless!
Just saw bits of this sketch last night.
Here's what I don't want. A coach or AD that's made their name on doing more with less. Give me the guy that's just going to demand the resources to continuously succeed, not sit here and win 8 games with a 6 win roster and get a pat on the back.
I kinda feel the opposite. Give me a coach who can do more with less and an AD that is a proven fundraiser.
Until VT raises funding, we won't have better than a top 40 roster. We need someone who can get 9+ wins with a top 40 roster. We need someone who can tell recruits 'you might not be the highest bidder in the near term, but we can develop you so you can get more money in the portal or NFL.' Simultaneously, we need an AD who can drive interest and get more gifts/off-the-field-revenue.
I would love a Dan-Mullen-type because he has a proven record of adjusting his scheme around his players. I also think he can attract talent at the QB position.
Well, unless something hugely drastic occurs, we will not have more in the immediate future...so...
8 wins would be our best result since 2019. With all due respect, that would be a step up from where we are now.
Yeah I don't know why i took so many words to say I don't want an AD or HC that's complacent with the status quo of our current spending and funding patterns with no urgency to get them fixed.
Obviously I'd be happy if someone got us 8 wins but I don't want to get someone in here that checks the box 'best team since 2019' and we just do exactly what got us there without being proactive to at the very least maintain a status with our peers. Otherwise we'll just be right back here again in 5-10 years.
People used to laugh and snicker - even within the Hokie fandom - at the empty national championship trophy case. But I always thought of it as a symbol that we at least used to aspire to something greater.
There's this sort of prevailing malaise that has set in over the years about what we can realistically expect as a program. It went from "well we can't win the natty I guess, but we can expect to play in the Orange/Sugar Bowl!" to "We can expect to win the ACC!" to "We can expect to win 10 games!" to "We can beat UVA!"
Realism is well and good and I understand that we have a long way to go to ever catch up with Bama, Ohio State, etc.... but there used to be a fire in this program, that somewhere along the way we let burn out. From top to bottom, we used to have a "fuck you, watch this" attitude. We used to spank so called better teams with better resources on the regular... honestly not unlike what Vanderbilt did to us on Saturday, and has been doing to teams left and right in the Pavia/Kill era. That used to be us, and then some.
I hate the sentiment that it's just a given that it'll never happen for a program like us. Now, granted, it sure as shit won't ever happen on our current trajectory. But I want an admin, an AD, a HC, and a staff that genuinely, earnestly, hungers to hunt with the big dogs. What the fuck are we doing if we're not trying to win championships?
To quote A Knight's Tale - how did the Lords become Lords? They took it - at the tip of a sword.
The issue with the trophy case is that is wasnt aspirational it was delusional as no one in Blacksburg was ready to do what it takes to be a Lord. Look at it from other schools, a mid-major program joins the Big Least full time and they instantly think they can play with the big boys year in and year out.
Beamer had to almost quit to get raises for his staff, huge red flag. That's a toxic work environment.
Where were marcus's handlers when he was speeding down the road with an unlicensed handgun in his car (or weed don't remember which came first). We play for the 2006 title with Marcus. He should have been on lock down.
We all hate that Warrick was playing in the national championship, but thats how you win.
There was no focus on winning a championship inside of Merrymen and that made the case even worse.
I agree with the sentiment that everything needs to burn.
When you look around at the college football landscape and you see the likes of ECU replacing Mike Houston and being competitive; then you see see JMU consistently competitive through 4 coaching changes; then you see USF regroup (I could go on here)... None of these teams are fielding national championship caliber teams, but the do find ways to regroup and maintain competitiveness.
Something much, much bigger than the head coach is wrong when we, Virginia Tech, hasn't been able to really field a competitive team on over a decade (there have been bright spots during that time, but not many).
The powers that be are clearly incredibly incompetent.
I want leadership at USF, on campus stadium, doubled athletic spending in 5.5 years, added sports, spent over 35 million on locker rooms, practice space and sports facilities for multiple sports.
Yea, that is a fascinating example.
Liberty is another perfect example on going all in on building an athletic department
Fuck liberty I want no one associated with that diploma mill shithole anywhere near Blacksburg.
Second
Putting all hate for liberty to the side - that's not a situation any secular institution can emulated. It's just not.
100% Service Charges headed our way
I'm all for starting a religion to worship VT football, my wife won't see any change in my life.
I was going to say let's just hire USF's AD but just realized they currently don't have one and a search is underway.
I know we like to give UT a lot of grief, but man they went out and hired Danny White from UCF who had invested similarly in athletics, and he brought Heupel with him and they have been tremendously successful over the last several years in not only football but all major sports.
USF's AD is at Navy.
Whatever they're doing at USF seems to be working.
Got lucky? they had two 7-6 seasons under Golesh and now they've had two good games. In 2024 they beat a 7-6 team(bowl win), a 5-7 team and 5 eams with 3 or less wins
2023 no team they beat had a winning record their best win was over Syracuse in the bowl after Babers was fired.
We don't know how good Boise or UF are. They could have hit the jackpot in the portal like we did with Herbert or Tuten.
They probably needed some luck to beat them, but that they were competitive means they've done something right.
You know what else makes this process incredibly complicated and rather crappy as a VT fan...you've got Pry at this point who has likely accepted his fate and is awaiting his golden parachute, while his boss goes to the BOV and verbatim says "I don't know how much longer I'll be here/you'll have me here" - he's itching to move on. And even his boss in Sands is looking to step aside/retire in the next few years. Everyone in a leadership position at VT is trying to grab their parachute and bail.
As painful as it is, I think it's preferable to eat the L and let them all walk. Each one of them can't get the fuck out of here fast enough.
Sands is tough. On one hand, he's seemingly done exceedingly great things with academics and has us on the cusp of AAU membership. Academic fundraising has boomed under Sands. The school's academic profile and rankings have risen significantly. And that's great because that's what the University President should be primarily concerned with.
But I think he just hasn't been as hands-on or focused on athletics now until lately. I believe that he understands the situation and wants to fix it. But he's probably going to retire in just a couple years at this point. I'm sure he doesn't want to have to get his hands dirty and have to be the axe man, firing Whit and a lot of the AD administration with not too much longer to go before he retires. But I truthfully don't think he can afford inaction at this point.
Something is going to have to give. I'm just really hoping this is enough to force his hand to take action in regards to Whit and Pry. I've never seen the entire fan base just flip like a switch like this in the last 12-18 hours. It's going to get ugly.
ummm...we didn't come here to play school
Step 1: Fire Whit
This should be done this weekend. Let the new AD bring in his own football guys, and hire him based on his experience in running a football school.
Whit coming from fucking Cincinnati was a first of many, many mistakes by this school
Seems like TSL is officially flying the Fire Whit banner now. I hope enough public pressure forces Sands to do something here. Someone has to be held accountable for this shit show. The fan base has had enough.
Cinci fans even loathe the guy since he tanked that program for awhile hiring a washed up Tuberville
how we all feel about billy napier these days
As a FSU grad I'd love for UF to keep him
The dude who just did at Florida exactly what Fuente did with us? No damn thank you.
do you think we'd be in a better spot now if we had landed him instead of pry in 2021
Yes because as bad as Napier has been, Pry has been worse
You say that, but Napier hasn't been able to recruit "well" at freaking Florida, how do you think he'd recruit here? And wasn't he getting sued because he promised some kid NIL money through a collective and the collective welched?
No thanks. And I seriously doubt Napier would have done any better than Pry.
Edit: changed 'we' to 'well' in first sentence. Effing autocorrect.
Yeah I don't see any reason that Napier would be on our radar he was great at Louisiana because his recruiting classes were 1st in the conference every year...by a lot. He's not going to do that here and he'll have less talent than he did at FL.
Elko was clearly the move in hindsight. Supposedly it came down to him and Pry too. I wanted Clawson at the time but we didn't know he was looking to get out of coaching in the NIL portal era.
Bill O'Brien would also have been a better option. Napier is probably equivalent with Pry because he totally mismanaged all of the talent Florida bought
dunno. we can get away with a transient coach in basketball i.e. buzz. elko would have still left for aTm and we would have rioted on the streets like tinnerssee after kiffin
True but we would've had a couple fun seasons and had a better foundation for the next guy. More national relevance
In the NIL era on an ACC budget I'm less concerned about transient coaches than I used to be. The talented end of the roster is going to turn over every 1-2 years anyway.
Looks like Gundy could be on the outs at OK State. I think he's a bit of a tool but had a pretty successful run at a school with a similar brand/profile to VT.
Maybe an Andy Reid esque change of scenery situation? If he even wants to still coach that is
Gundy is a legend, but this would be like hiring Frank in his last few years as a coach. If it stopped working at OKState, there's no reason he would find the secret sauce for success here. I want someone established, but not in the twilight of their career.
He's only 58 (Source), but i don't necessarily disagree.
My only draw to him is it seems like he could probably give us a dead cat bounce to ~8 wins. Which could be a reasonable way to "stop the bleeding" so to speak
I would read up on Gundy's recent history and strongly reconsider this idea. He's not built for the NIL/transfer portal era, lets just put it that way
I watch OSU every weekend. Please no Gundy. Their defense has been worse than ours. O-Line is terrible. Gundy would not do well here at all. Hard no from me.
Gundy now available (was just fired)
Not saying we should hire him (we should not), I just wanted to post the gif
For a second, I thought this comment was plaid already. Then realized it was just the OSU background!
Unfortunately I don't think there are enough active users for a comment to go plaid anymore. I can't remember the last time I saw a comment with over 50 likes.
I don't want Campbell at VT. Please let him stay at Iowa State and be successful. Having lost all interest in most sports, I want at least one of the teams I still care somewhat about to be decent.
Love the idea of Glenn Schumann. Probably too young (only 35 years old) but his track record speaks for itself. Knows the region, learned at the feet of Saban & Smart, defensive genius, great recruiting chops (not that hard to recruit for Bama and Georgia but still).
Should have hired him instead of Justin Hamilton tbh
None of the people mentioned will be available in 3 years when we move on from pry
Sad but likely true
I want a winner, I don't give a shit what their name is. Someone with no excuses and can pick a team apart like Jerry kill did to us last night , with passion and knowledge of the game. Exploiting weaknesses is football coaching, all the other shit is noise
Let's just hire the entire JMU athletic department. They are winning a lot, all over the place, these days. And it doesn't seem to matter who the coach is for the football team. They just win.
they are far and away the best run athletic dept in the state, pound for pound
Soaking every single student for 10 grand on their way through to play Sun Belt opposition is playing the game on easy mode.
Yeah I can't afford that.
Other daughter is looking hard at VT.
An extra 20k is just not doable.
That extra money is rapidly becoming the norm everywhere. These colleges are acting like a cartel, everyone is upping rates at the exact same time so that the consumers have no choice but to pay them. And they're only doing it to enrich themselves.
But the kicker is, if you are one of the schools who doesn't up your rates to play along, you're going to fall so far behind so quickly that you might as well go out of business.
So we are going to price average people out of Higher Education so we can be competitive at football?? Just so we can pay a bunch of kids money to wear our uniform, when they can up and leave 6 months later?
Yeah...fuck that.
If that's what it takes to be competitive, then count me out.
This is college football, lets have some perspective. There are many, many vastly more important things in the World.
The University isn't going to collapse if the Football team sucks. VT was a laughing stock in Football for most of the 20th century and they didn't have to Board up Burress...the University thrived.
And its not just VT.
-UF - sucked at Football forever pre Spurrier
-Miami - mediocre to crap pre-Schnellenberger
-Kansas - awful more often than not...doors still open
-Iowa State - one of the worst FB programs historically...buildings are still standing
Having a good Athletic Program is clearly beneficial to a University as a whole but it's not an absolute make-or-break scenario, lets not be hyperbolic.
OK, I'm gonna say it...
The average person is already priced out of higher education unless your children, like ours did, decide to go the route of Community College and then to an in-state institution.
While I agree that an extra $10K over 4 years to support football is ridiculous, the race won't stop and average people are already priced out.
You're acting like this is a unique moral quandry for VT.
This is the standard everywhere. Everyone else is doing this. We are far, far below our own in-state peers in terms of using academic student fees for athletics.
This is the fucking problem with VT right now. We all say we want to be competitive and we all say we want things to be good, but the moment it becomes time to see the bill we all suddenly pretend like we left our wallet at home or we start pontificating on the moral quandary that college sports has become.
Yeah, I get it, the current model sucks. But if we want to compete then we have to play that game. That's the bare fucking minimum now.
And if we aren't willing to do that, then we should immediately drop down to FCS and be done with it.
Here's the problem...when you use the term "VT"...you don't acknowledge that "VT" is comprised of individuals who have their own concerns, priorities, and financial situations.
So while "VT" may want to have a good Football team, John may want to afford Tuition next semester.
I have no Problem with VT Administration exploring options to increase funding but I have a huge problem mandating it on people without them having any opportunity to consent.
Ultimately, VT needs more money...if the Boosters and Fanbase aren't willing or able to raise it, then you have your answer--"VT" maybe doesn't have enough people that place an absolute priority on Football for this to work.
VT also doesn't have fans sneaking onto opposing Campuses to poison trees..and I don't consider that a bad thing.
It wasn't all that long ago we had fans sneaking into opposing stadiums to deface their field....
also the price of higher education has a lot more problems than college football lol
Spray paint on a field and intentionally killing 100+ year old trees are much different actions. Stealing mascots, ect. has been happening for ages.
No denial that college costs are far outpacing income gains for the vast majority. But please explain to me how adding additional fees that are completely unnecessary and unrelated to education helps that?
Do we start throwing Kerosene on house fires because the house already looks like a loss??
Like I said in another thread...money isn't always the solution...ask Duke how they feel about their QB Investment this week.
We could spend tons of money, put more people in more life-altering debt and win 7 games.
VT wouldn't be VT without the football program. The 1995-2010 era supercharged our applications, broadened our enrollment to levels we never could have imagined in the 80s, got us into the ACC which allowed us to have numerous research partnerships with the likes of Wake Forest, and got us the credibility that eventually led to us being able to open the DC campus partnered with Amazon.
All of that stemmed from us having an elite football program between 20 and 30 years ago.
And I am sorry if this sounds callous, but in your scenario John may want to afford Tuition, but if that was his biggest concern maybe he should go somewhere more affordable. There are too many variables completely dependent on VT football, both within the school and in the local and regional community for us to allow it to go in the shitter. If that means raising tuition, so be it. That is the price of remaining relevant.
We aren't an Ivy League school. We aren't a Cal Tech, RIT or MIT where our academic standing is elite enough for our name to drive admissions without it being out there in the public's eye in sports. Like it or not, VT needs a healthy athletic department to survive and the athletic department needs a good football program to drive revenue. You might not like the cost, but its necessary for VT to remain VT and not a glorified regional college.
I went to tech in the early 90's based on the school's engineering college. I didn't give a flying fig about their football program and honestly probably only watched 5 games in my four years on campus from 93-97.
On the contrary the football program is the base reason I knew I would go no where else. I grew up driving to games with my family from Richmond to Blacksburg every other Saturday of the fall. Without that there's very little reason I would have gone to VT over any of the other colleges in the state.
I'm a second generation VT grad, and knew that I wanted to go to Tech since I was three years old. I went to Tech for the Engineering degree and it has served me very well. Did I enjoy the football program? Absolutely, it became a big part of my college experience and I am glad for that. But I went to VT because my uncle went there. Because astronauts went there. Because the people who put men on the moon went there, etc. Granted I'm old and kids don't have the same influences and motivations now and Football is the front porch of the university and all that but in the end Virginia Tech the institution will be fine. I'd really like us to be good at football but at what cost... I dunno.
With all due respect, your one off anecdote is an exception to the overall trend of the school. The fact of the matter is that enrollment went from 18k undergrad students in the fall of 1992 to 31k undergrad students in the fall of last year. That happened because the VT brand rose in football under Frank Beamer. Applications doubled after the 1999 team went to the National Championship Game, and vaulted us to the relationships we have now.
I am glad you had a great time at VT without caring about football, but you come from a different era. VT and Blacksburg cannot afford to go back to the small time mindset we had at that time.
Also an anecdote: my boss told me that his sister went to VT and he wanted to follow her but after the 99 season the avg GPA requirement shot up and he didn't get in.
Football absolutely drove interest and the school took the opportunity to raise standards for better students. VT is a better institution now because of the football success of the late 90s.
Oh yeah 100%. My mother went to VT, but living in NC we just never talked about it. She would watch the annual VT-UVa game but that was it. Around here it was all about NC State and UNC.
VT appeared on my radar because of the 1999 team. If not for them, I would have gone to NC State. And with the increasing admissions standards, I don't believe my high school resume would have been accepted to VT by 2010.
The average GPA requirement has shot up everywhere.
This is a separate conversation, but its called Grade Inflation.
When I was in High School '02 Grad....4.0 was it.
You can't convince me the AP courses kids are taking today are any harder than the ones I took.
Counterpoint...we aren't Alabama, Ohio State, Texas, USC, or Notre Dame either.
We don't expend money and resources trying to compete academically with MIT...why does it make any more sense to do that to try to compete with Alabama in football???
Look, your points are largely valid, VT did benefit from the Glory years of the Football Program. But those years are an ever fading memory now.
Forced fees to chase some fleeting Football Glory when the SEC and B1G teams will just pick us apart with whatever gains we make is the point at which this no longer makes sense.
And this is exactly what I am talking about.
Rather than trying to figure out how we can get out of this mess, too many damn people associated with this school would rather come up with every excuse in the book on why not to act. This small time woe is us we should just be happy to be where we are mindset is EXACTLY why we are in the shitter right now.
As a school and fanbase we don't have the stones to do what is necessary to compete. We are a major educational institution with a community college mindset.
What exactly would you propose the fanbase do to act??
Dump all of our disposable income into an Athletic Department that's proven to be utterly inept? Then we will throw some more mandatory fee money into the pot too...because that will fix it??
This is a VT Athletics problem...created by years of bad decisions that occurred at a particularly horrible time and an inflection point in College Sports.
Expecting and mandating the public to bail you out is asinine. I wouldn't invest my money in a stock of a company that is struggling financially...why would I put my money in VT Athletics right now??
Forcing student fees is akin to a company forcing employees to buy company stock to stay employed there..in the private sector, it would be massively illegal...
Here's the message to the Athletic Department: show me some results. Until then, put your hand back in your pocket.
I am fully in support of a general fan boycott until the school starts playing the same game as everyone else. If UVa is maximizing their athletic fees to keep shit afloat, we should, too. If Clemson defunded the non-rev sports to bring them to absolute minimum funding in order to funnel as much money into football as they could, then so should we. Those are things we could do right now, and the fact that we aren't shows we aren't willing to play the game, and if we aren't willing to do that, why should I support them with my time and money anymore.
I used to be of the mindset that you couldn't turn your back on the school because that would mean turning the back on players. But now that the football team is largely made up of paid mercenaries who will play somewhere else for more money the second they have any success I really just don't give 2 shits about them anymore.
well said! I don't feel bad about "turning my back" on the team for this very reason. The kids are just as "committed" to VT as I am to them and their craft and I think that's fair. I'm a VT fan and I will never be able to root for any other college team for any other reason - but I don't feel bad tuning out the football program - at the end of the day, it's just entertainment. If it doesn't entertain me, I'm not watching.
yes. Both of you have nailed it here
I just don't think this is true anymore. Tech is a top 20 public university. We're ranked ahead of Penn St, of UConn, Pitt and Michigan St. (to pick some big names with much better football than us.) I guess that could change with time but that ranking has continued climbing while our football has declined. The research budget is $450 million for FY2024. Point is, I think we're actually much closer to being Cal Tech than we are having an Alabama style athletics department.
That's not to say that we didn't get a kick in the pants from the Vick era teams. I'm just not sure that it helping us once means it's a requirement to continue to be a very good, nationally relevant, university.
Is VT really a top 20 public school? I know the rankings have gone up since I was there, but didn't think we were at that level. Happy to hear, I just was wondering what metrics/references were saying we were a top 20.
WSJ has us as the 6th best public, 21st best overall, and #1 in VA. US News has us as the 21st public, 51st overall.
Sweet. I always say, take any of these ratings with a heavy dose of salt because they all have different biases that come out with the methodology they use. But you can pay attention to the general trends. Knew VT had been trending up for a while. Getting the Med School I'm sure was a huge boost. But did not think it was that high.
Oh, yeah, grain of salt for sure. But it does mean we have a good (and steadily improving) academic reputation.
That WSJ report is actually the background on my work computer with both of my monitors strategically aimed at the desks of the loluva alums that sit behind me
woah woah woah. #1 in VA, does that make us Public Ivy?
One of my in laws said that about GT (which is actually a good school, unlike UVA), and I went on a rant about how pretentious it is to say that. Also I think they called it a 'southern ivy' not a 'public ivy' but it still pissed me off.
True, but momma always asked "if all your friends jump off a cliff, does that mean you should too?"
Perhaps the have-nots should break free and start their own game, and return to a more traditional model with regional conferences... wish I could tell you how to make that happen successfully.
My son is a junior ME student now. He cringed when I mentioned the higher fees of course as he is paying for school and we pay for housing and food. He pays for his own season tickets which were raised this year and some $11 beers in the stadium, after pre gaming of course. At some point, these students will be future donors hopefully, but if forced to pay a bunch more on their loans, will they give in the future? I think VT misses the boat tremendously in the time it takes to get food or drinks during the game. How much more money would they take in if you didn't miss half a quarter just going for a refill? Just wondering out loud...
Well, if you'd like to believe some of the people on this Board, you need to have a man to man conversation with your son and tell him to stop being such a goddamn whiner.
We need some NIL to buy some LBs ASAP so he needs to buck the hell up and pay some more fees. Get a job, sell some plasma...stop with the excuses and make it work.
We need to win college football games!!! If he gets an ulcer from the stress or develops a sleep disorder so be it.
Obviously this is tongue-in-cheek. But this is exactly the example I am talking about. Your son deserves to get the education he is shouldering the cost of on his own and not be in debt til he is 50 so that VT can pay athletes in a vain attempt to be competitive in Athletics.
Best of luck to him.
I laughed. The school should set up a sperm donor program for students with all proceeds going to the NIL budget.
We need to be more creative!
Copy from another post:
Big board of coaches (overall quality not necessarily fit):
1. John Sumrall - Tulane
2. Alex Golesh - USF
3. Dan Mullen - UNLV
4a Glenn Schuman - DC Georgia
4b. Shannon Dawson - OC Miami
Stretch but possible/out of the box
1. Lance Leipold - Kansas
2. Matt Campbell - Iowa State
2b. Kalani Sitake - BYU
4. Willie Fritz - Houston
Don't hate but probably lower tier:
1. Kane Wommack - DC Alabama, fmr South Alabama HC
2. Tyson Helton - Western Kentucky
Wildcard:
Michael Vick with Dave Clawson as chief of staff/associate head coach
Those would all be home run hires that are unlikely. Leipold and Campbell have both turned down P2 offers. I would be ecstatic with Fritz. I'd put Sitake in your 'don't hate but probably lower tier' section - I'd take Wommack over Sitake easily.
I would also love Glenn Schuman, but I think it's completely unrealistic - I think a lot of those guys who are SEC lifers (Lanning, Kirby, etc) aren't leaving for a job unless it's heavily resourced (aka P2).
The Mike Vick hire is very Deion-esk. I truly don't know if it would/could work.
We have to go through that list and make sure those guys have no interest. VT is a clear step up from their current job for all of those guys, but it probably doesn't get them closer to the big job. So it depends what their ambitions are.
I think this is a pretty weak cycle for coaches, I'm not sure there's a candidate outside of this list that's qualified or would work out. I think we need to be real about our football expectations if we can't land a guy on this list. And just paying a lower tier guy big money isn't the answer.
I think Sitake has worked wonders at BYU, people expected them to suck the past few seasons and they've vastly exceeded expectations. He also greatly raised the floor from their last few seasons as an independent where they were routinely losing to G5 teams.
Wommack did great at South Al but that is very different and different footprint from an ACC job and recruiting the east coast. He has good experience at Bama but it's not Nick Sabans Alabama. I think he's competent but not an ideal candidate imo.
Maybe we could get a guy from the Oregon staff? They always seem extremely well prepared and well coached. Yes they're talented but we see talent get mismanaged all the time in the SEC, Miami, etc. Have seen the opposite from Oregon
I would argue that:
None of those guys are a given to workout. Coaching hires are a crapshoot. Just the nature of the business.
Hell, deboar could get fired from Bama this year, and I think that would be a great get for VT.
sitake is fool's gold.
Yea, the BYU/Morman money cannon is also something that VT doesn't have.
UVa just showed us a run-through of what trying to transplant the BYU pipeline to a public school in the East looks like. And their fundraising arm could have replaced the money cannon if Bronco had shown any signs of getting it to take root here.
BYU starts with a unique foundation of cultural effects that you can't replicate elsewhere, and then they use the money cannon to top that off i.e. with A.J. Dybantsa in basketball. That's fine for them, but it means you have even less signal than usual to evaluate how people on staff there might do elsewhere.
Bronco had UVA on the rise, and if he hadn't suddenly bailed they probably would've beaten us 3 of the last 4 years.
But, he did and they didn't.
you forget: he is a professional and didnt want to deal with an amateur hour employer
Maybe if he has a 5 star son and the top recruit in the nation that is a future first round pick for either offense or defense.
But on a serious note if we are fully resetting everything, now would be the time to try the "Deion" experiment if we provide all the support needed. Although the jury is still out on his Norfolk State time, which Deion was a definite success at Jackson State.
I disagree. Now is not the time for another coin toss hire, that is likely to crash and burn. We can't afford to hire Vick and then have it turn out to be a disaster.
I would consider Vick another experimental hire. We need to do the opposite, and pony up for a big boy coach who's shown he can do it at this level. Dan Mullen is one option, among others.
If we were going to do the experimental big flashy hire, I'd rather hire Jon Gruden. But I'm not even convinced that's a good idea.
Michael Vick would be a categorically awful hire. I'm with French - I'm out on the program if we go down that route.
As a head coach, totally agree. But as a fun thought experiment, what level of responsibility would you be willing to give him? If he was on staff in any capacity it would still generate some buzz. Analyst? QB coach? Co-OC with someone experienced? And I guess we could open this to other players you'd be happier to see on the sidelines next fall
His wheelhouse would be player development (aka be a big brother), recruiting, fundraising and maybe as an offensive analyst.
Quite literally nothing else, lol.
Eh idk man his last little brother kinda went off the rails.
we should sell out for cignetti. convince me otherwise.
Cignetti is not leaving a P2 program (with a upward trajectory and realistic expectations) for an ACC program (with a downward trajectory, an impatient fan base and most likely a pay cut).
What would give you a better chance at a conf championship and a favorable playoff seed, going through Oh St, Mich, and Penn St or FSU, Clemson, and Miami? Also, Indiana is not exactly fertile recruiting grounds and the school is basketball first.
In five years, we may be relegated to mid-major status, Indiana is assured a seat at the adult table.
Look at the number of NFL players from VA post-Beamer. VA isn't exactly a fertile recruiting ground anymore.
Indiana actually does have pretty good football recruiting. In Bloomington you also have access to Illinois, Chicago, Ohio, and St. Louis is only about 4 hours away. Nashville is also about 4.5 hours away.
So it's multiple hours away from anyplace good. Got it.
Their geographical reaches are the same distance as our recruiting hotbeds
She has moved around a bit since leaving here (UNLV, Missouri, and currently Arizona), but does Desireé Reed-Francois have what it takes for the rebuild if given the resources?
I will pass on Whit's protege. She might be great, but the connection will probably make her leash shorter than she deserves.
Why are so many bro fans of several teams obsessed with Gruden being the next coach for their team. I've seen numerous posts for him to UF, VT and OKST. He would be in top 10 oldest college coaches, hasn't been around a college team on staff in how long?
I think you answered your own question, lol - because he's a bro fans guy! At least he is until he goes 5-19 in his first two seasons.
Because they're ~25 year olds who are chronically online but weren't around to watch him suck with the Bucs and then the Raiders
I mean shit, at this point I'd take him just cause it would give a reason for a lot of people to tune into watch VT every week.
Would it help us win? Probably not, but he is a name that drives viewership, and that actually could end up making us a shitload of extra money in ACC revenue sharing going forward.
Maybe but I think that novelty would wear off pretty quickly. I'll be curious how UNC's TV numbers are this year, but i think for most people they'll tune into see Bill look a grump in a new color once and then be over it. That's the closest comparison I can think of
You could end up with a Mack Brown effect where the talent level goes up considerably in the short term bc of his name recognition and NFL connection, before it flames out spectacularly bc the man can't coach them. But in the age of NIL, I'm not even sure how much of a boost he would get us
I know he's a bit of a weirdo, but I think there's a non-zero chance if we hired Dan Mullen in 2015 that he would still be our head coach today.
I think he still would've left for Florida in 2018. But I'm still not opposed to him as an option now - especially if he keeps UNLV rolling in year 1 there. I agree he's a weirdo, but he's a good coach and knows how to maximize a roster. If we can update the player personnel side, then I think he'd be a good fit. I just hope he wouldn't bring emotional blitzing Todd Grantham with him.
EDIT: and by "update the player personnel side" I mean bring in a GM who oversees recruiting similar to what big schools like Michigan are moving into doing. Let Mullen focus on coaching and scheme.
The Florida poach was certainly always the threat, in any situation. That's a good point.
He's had a couple of his teams quit on him and managed a show cause along the way. He can absolutely coach; but he's also an asshole. Definitely warrants close scrutiny.
Bring me Fran Brown. Experience at Georgia and had his team running "sprints" on the field after they squeaked out an OT win against UConn. Told the reporter post game "glad that we won, but I am really pissed right now". Above average recruiter and high standards.
Pass, the wind sprints was such a try-hard, performative loser move.
Yeah... "sprints" is right. They were jogging. Performative indeed.
I agree, but it works as performative to the team to remind them that even in a win they weren't meeting the standards. Pry took L's and acted like the team was doing what it was supposed to but just got a bad bounce
I think we can find a middle ground between being a giant tool and not caring. Pass on both Brown and Pry.
I'm listening to today's TSL pod and they have have some good discussion about timeline for replacing an AD and HC in the same year. Ideally, you would have 5-6 months to fire your current AD, hire a new one, and give them time to evaluate and reorg the department (including taking stock of the football program). If we think there could be a coaching change this year (December at the latest), and we assume Whit can't be the one making the next football hire, then we are already woefully behind schedule. Preseason, if there was even a chance that we move on from Pry at the end of 2025, Whit would have needed to be gone this past summer.
If Pry doesn't dramatically right the ship this season, I see at least a couple options and they're all bad... 1) Pry stays on another year while VT replaces Whit, 2) we rush to fire Whit, hire a new AD and the new AD has to search for a HC on way too short of a timeline, 3) Whit gets to hire Pry's replacement.
Where's the leadership and vision from the university's top brass?
I don't know the disadvantages of this model but there have been a bunch of schools that have gone ADless for awhile Cal and Duke recently. We don't need to rush into hiring an AD.My mind read everything backwards in your post
Par for the course. Pretty much sums up VT Athletics.
At this point we should just create an AI hologram of Bear Bryant or something and name it head coach. Maybe a hybrid with 4-5 all timers coalesced into one. The fans can name it and we will bow down to its supremacy.
Can't be worse than what we've had lately, no?
Where is our ChatGHP AI Head coach.
TKP plays VT Head Football Coach
Does it understand how to Use timeouts??
If so, it has a leg up on our current whistleholder.
That's... actually an interesting project for a Computer Engineering class project. Could you make an AI coach module that would be at least as effective as Pry at moment to moment CFB decision making, lol.
You could probably hard code one tbh. He's been dumb af
The Turing Test is also a surprisingly low bar. I'm sure it'd be easy. Hell a coin flip would likely be better at making decisions.
Jerod Mayo is currently unemployed, is a 757 native.
I have to say, at the risk of derailling the thread into another food debate, that this is what popped into my head upon seeing his name:
I don't even care if the next coach we get uses us as a stepping stone for a bigger school. I just want us to win games and be positively relevant again. Just give me a winner
Hes gotta stay for a few years though. I don't want a guy who comes in wins a bunch then is out next season....like at least get a foundation started.
I would take one good season at this point. It would at least reengage the fan base and show that it can actually be done. Show that if done right, you can win in Blacksburg again.
I mean, it depends right? Mike Elko was at Duke one season and
made it a better jobshowed that it was a better job than people realized.I don't care who we get, as long as it's someone who is as passionate about football as Jerry Kill looked on Vandy's sideline against us. I'm done with these "stare off in the distance and chew gum" guys like Fuente and Pry. Passionate coach = passionate players = winning football
Imagine Dabo standing there chewing gum taking notes as his linebackers got repeatedly whipped play after play. Aint gonna happen. I dont have any faith in the administration to really do anything reasonable about Pry/Whit though. I fear we are in store for some truly dark days as far as the football program is concerned ahead.
In fairness, I don't care too much if the coaches are passionate on the sidelines or calm. I remember years ago when we still thought Fuente was good and people here (not saying you, I have no idea who the individuals were) were taking about how happy they were to have someone calm and cool like Fuente and not some screaming clown like Narduzzi when we was having his meltdowns. Can be a Bill Parcells kind of guy or a Joe Gibbs kind of guy and be successful or fail. But there has to be consequences if you are lazy or play poorly. Remember Parcells cutting someone once because he fell asleep in film review.
I'm all for passion and some yelling will probably be good for the current roster, but I'm fine with someone low key too. They just have to be competent and hire competent staff and have consequences for players not doing their job.
I hate to say this but I need to defend Fuente a little.
He walked into a situation where apparently somebody in Merriman was working against him and had literally half the resources that Pry does for recruiting and development.
He would not have gotten a job in the college football playoff analyst department if people out there didn't think he was a good coach. Bad fit for Tech and way to loyal to corny, definitely.
If I'm comparing Fuente to Pry, I think the only category I can score to Pry is that he cut his losses and fired some of his assistants. Otherwise, I don't think it's unreasonable to say Fuente could coach circles around him.
I don't care if they're cool as a cucumber if they make good decisions and win games.
It's the losing that pisses me off.
This this this.
But I certainly don't want BK on my sideline.
No decision is going to be made before October. Best case, Pry might say I am going to step away and not force you to fire me at the end of the season but you can go ahead and start your coaching search.
Pry is not stepping down. I can think of 2 times that's happened in modern cfb: Spurrier at SCar and Gary Anderson at Oregon State. Neither of those situations are like Pry. He's not going to just step down.
I think it's more likely that Pry is fired before October (in a package deal with Whit, just like GT did 3 years ago), especially if we lose to ODU this weekend.
Pry and Whit being jointly fired before October being more likely than Pry stepping down voluntarily is kind of like saying that buying a lottery ticket and winning the lottery is more likely than not buying a lottery ticket and winning the lottery.
That is to say, neither is likely and one of them is just less likely than the other.
EDIT:
Also, can you imagine the pandemonium if we lose to ODU this weekend!?!
lol
As cynical as I am about our football program, even I'm not predicting that. If it happens, though...hoboy.
Idk ODU with a dual threat qb... our guys didn't exactly care in the second half of Vandy...
I'm nervous.
I'm not even bothering watching this game (or possibly the rest of the season). I'm going to be way too angry seeing our defense incapable of stopping a G5 rushing attack.
I normally stay away until Monday after a loss. If we lose to ODU, I might stay away until Wednesday.
Yes I can imagine it
Urban Meyer at Florida?
Urban - ever the psychopath - wanted to go out on his own terms, without tarnishing his image as an amazing football coach. Saying "I have a heart problem stopping me from coaching" is way different than "I've lost control of this team/program and I'm not the person for the job"
Like I said, only two coaches have ever done it in the modern era at a P5 program, and both left their program in a worse off spot.
"heart problem"
Wrong answers only:
Scott Satterfield (ACC experience!)
Steve Belichick (famous dad!)
Scot Loeffler (familiar with the program! knows Tom Brady!)
Bryan Stinespring (clearly we've strayed too far from the glory days and need to retVTrn!)
Honestly Stinesrping wouldn't be that bad as a HC, he was great as a position coach and the issues with his offense were olY calling, those offenses ranked his plays to perfection, they just didn't work within the flow of the game. If he hired a real OC I would be disappointed in the VT leadership for both hitting a bigger name, but we could do worse.
I put him on the list more as a sign that nothing was changing in Merryman, and even getting more calcified. Less about the #firebryanstinespring throwback. I don't think he would be a good hire in 2025 but not for the same reasons he was a beleaguered OC
100% agree
I'm here. I think Stiney would make a fine head coach (I'm not saying we need to hire him at VT). Additionally, of all the recruits I've spoken to over the years (the one's who chose VT and the one's who didn't), they all LOVED Stiney. The man knows how to evaluate and recruit talented players.
Other ideas I didn't see on the thread, non-joke edition:
If we were able to poach him it would make me feel better about our program: Manny Diaz
If you can't spend with the big boys, get creative: Jeff Monken
Whoever we hire should either come with a definitely-not-tampered-with QB or hire an OC who will
I would take Manny in a heartbeat if that was possible.
Please No.
Pry 2.0---can talk the talk, good coordinator, but not a good H.C.
Duke can keep him forever.
How is he not a good HC? He had Miami progressing up and was only forced out by crypto money. He's had Duke competing at the same level as they did under Elko. I would love if Manny Diaz was our coach, that's a baseline 8-9 win team every year.
Can Sands/the new AD sit Pry down and say, "hey buddy, we can either let you go and probably no one will give you another head whistle. See Fuente, Justin. Or..... you take a demotion to DC, go back to what you've shown some success in, and then you won't need to move your family again."
Pry did say he wanted to have the tough conversations...
Definitely /s unless people think this would work and then, yeah, I was totally serious
Honestly, this was my ideal situation with Mullen as HC. I still like Pry as a cultural fit, he's just not HC material.
The way the linebackers looked the past couple years Pry can get the hell away from this defense for good
The more I mull over this the more I'm coming around to the idea that Dan Mullen (see what I did there??) would be a great hire for us.
I don't know how good of a head coach he'd be at this level, but I want Tim Beck and his creative offense. I'm willing to take a chance that he can succeed without Pavia. He has a ton of HC experience at the DII level so maybe he wants to move up to being a Head Coach at the FBS level.
The Athletic (pay link) weighed in on this today in their ACC mailbag:
Of course, Alex Golesh, he would be a dream hire. But Will Stein and Bryant Haines seem like decent choices.
I just don't understand the media's fascination with Shane at Tech. He's not leaving SC for Tech, where he would always be seen first as Frank's son.
No way Shane comes back.
Going the coordinator angle seems risky. We did that with Pry and it didn't really work out well. I'd rather have someone with HC experience. If that is G5, I want there to be some time as a coordinator on a P4 team.
That would be the best possibility. I don't see us getting any (desireable) candidate that has P4 head coaching experience.
Going through P4 conferences, the coordinator-straight-to-HC route has:
BaylorYou look at the schools where the coach has had unanimous success - and at 3 out of 5, it's a school that has been a historic recruiting power. SMU has leaned into the NIL era. SCar is an exception in many ways (one of which is that Shane was a special teams coordinator before accepting the job).
Talking through this... it's really clear that VT needs a visionary at AD (who can work on funding, and understands how to get that funding to football) and a coach-em-up guy at HC.
It also strikes me that a downfall of our last two HCs (I'm assuming Pry is fired this year... ) was staffing. Pry threw together a rookie staff to start. Fuente held on to Corny too long/made a bad hire in JHam. Also interesting that both coaches took a rookie coordinator + experienced skill position coach approach to one side of the ball. Failed in both cases.
Think I'd have to put Baylor as mixed and not TBD. Aranda is in his 6th year there, so probably enough time to get a good feel. Had 2 bad years. 1 was his first and teams often struggle learning a new system, plus it was the COVID year, so a struggle is not a shock. 1 great year at 12-2 with the Sugar Bowl win back when bowl games still mattered to most players. And 2 mediocre seasons of 6-7 and 8-5.
Overall record 32-31, which I'd think would be a big enough sample to call it mixed.
That's a great point! I didn't realize Aranda had been there for 6 years(!).
I just hear more about Baylor because of Frosty :-)
The fascination is because he was Frank's son. But you are right, he is never coming here. I think he is already the winningest coach at South Carolina (at least in ratio) and they are paying him commensurate to that production.
And Shane is getting exactly what he wants: a chance to make his own legacy at an P2 school. The pay is just icing on the cake.
Scary part is in a couple more years, Shane is going to have made more money than Frank did over his career.
I'd be surprised if he hasn't already hit that point.
At $8m a season and complete 4 season he's made over $32m so its close. Frank made on average $2m for his last 10 season and $1 mil for the 5 before that, so thats 25m. He had another 12 season before that but its hard to think he made $7m when he was probably not making 0.5m until late 90s.
Some quick googling. Shane's first contract was for 3 million a year about what his Dad made when he retired. He made 6.6 in 2023 and 2024 as a result of his first contract extension. He was upped to 8 as a result of his second contract extension in January 2025.
Shane has around $27M in career earnings through 2024. He should pass Frank this year, and still has about $30M remaining on his contract after this season.
Will Stein is certainly risky... Only has 5 years of FBS coaching experience, but I'm a big fan of what he did at UTSA (shows he can 'coach em up' and get results with mid players). I also like Oregon's offense (shows he can win with great players).
If we hire him (or someone like him), he's presumably getting a contract with a low floor, and we're investing heavily in coordinators around him.
If we announced this hire, it would definitely feel like a bridge coach who could keep us afloat while we fundraise more.
Edit: that said, if we're going for a 'bridge coach' I'd want a bit of a safer bet.
Honestly, I would love to see a HC that is only getting 3 million with multiple incentives that they can reach for more money. Pry getting almost 6 million a year for crap hurts.
VT needs to hire there next coach to win and win fast. If they win and then bolt like Elko that would be a success. The program is on its last legs and we dont need another "bridge" coach to limp along while the last ounce of juice dissipates from the program.
How would TKP feel about Mark Stoops?
My wife went to UK and their fanbase seems to have run out of patience with Stoops. As a somewhat neutral observer, I see a coach that is falling victim to standards that he raised. UK was pretty bad before he got there and he really raised their profile. I think they may not appreciate him until he's gone.
Yea, I know his amazing OL coach died in the early 2020's, and they haven't won more than 8 games since?
But I also think he could do well at a school where he doesn't have to compete with Basketball and plays an easier schedule.
I wouldn't hate the (hypothetical) hire.
99% of us would be pissed if we hire Rahne, for good reason, but swapping teams the rest of the season would make us 5x better
That's how far we've fallen
I love the stupidity of the media.
According to Talking Heads on Sirius 84...Clark Lea is now the hottest coaching candidate.
Newsflash idiots...Jerry Kill is the functional HC of that team and their only hope of sustainable success lies in the Injunction filing ability of Pavia's lawyer.
Lea is clearly a quite good D.C. but without taking most of NMSU, he would be unemployed right now.
But isn't that the sign of a good leader? You're able to effectively identify your shortcomings and the shortcomings of those around you, and bring in the correct people? Fair to say that if Pry or Fuente had done that early/often either could have kept their job for longer?
Sure....but the question is not about Pry or Fuente..they are both fired and failed H.C.
The question is (as compared to other candidates)...is Clark Lea #1 on your board??? knowing that Pavia (at some point) won't be eligible to play anymore....
Because then you might be the same person that wanted to hire Gene Chizik without Cam Newton...
Fair - VT has no business even attempting to hire Clark Lea away from Vandy.
2024/25 Clark Lea was what we wanted Brent Pry to be.
Right...
I think you can look at Lea as a more insightful version of Fuente. Fuente could have upgraded his Staff (he had Kill here) but chose not to.
With Pry I think he was doomed from the start and he displayed an total inability to build a competent Staff. More hires from him would have mostly just been bad hires.
I just think hailing Lea as a sudden genius is an overreaction because I think Vandy's fate is more tied to how long they can keep Kill around and whether they can find another QB like Pavia to run that system so well.
He does absolutely deserves credit for making smart decisions in getting them there in the first place.
I guess the easiest way to say it is this: if Clark Lea was interested in VT (which he almost certainly is not in the first place) but it couldn't be guaranteed that Kill and Beck were coming with him, my interest would be minimal.
GTFO, Lea is not leaving his alma mater and the SEC for a middling ACC program with champagne expectations and beer money.
Champagne wishes and caviar dreams, with a Cisco budget.
Haven't read this thread, will get to after this conference ends Tuesday.
I will only be happy if we hire Mullen or Beamer. I'd also be ecstatic if we hired Leipold or Cignetti but I think both those guys are impossible targets. Anyone else runs the same risk as the previous coaches and I won't be sold on them until I see winning seasons.
Im not sold on anyone right now, Nick Saban could walk through the door and I will believe he can win here once he does. We have so many issues that no one person can solve.
Just please no more experiments. Hire a proven head coach.
There are no "proven" head coaches that we are going to have a shot at landing. If they are available it's because they failed somewhere. If they are currently successfully coaching, they will be moving up a level in competition. Neither indicates that they are "proven".
Everybody out there is a risk, and we probably won't know until 2028 or beyond if we got a good one.
Yep....with the current state of the Program, any "proven" coach with any sense of self-preservation wouldn't touch us with a 10 foot pole.
Beyond just the ineptitude of the VT Athletic Dept, there is the uncertainty of the ACC also looming.
We are going to have to take a chance.
I think the best plan to try to maximize our luck would be to have the guy who so far is batting .000 in Football coaching hires in a different ZipCode when the decision is made.
On the other hand with the right amount of firing you could pitch a head coach that he can make his own adjustments to the athletic department as a whole which I think would be fairly attractive.
I'm think Coach Ken is the most 'proven' we could land. Unless we go the FCS route.
Yes, a proven head coach can include one that failed elsewhere, thanks
Let's hope we don't spend too much time Mullen this over...
My current big board based on... All I can think of is:
The coaches I don't want include
Pat Fitzgerald is a name that I haven't considered that is a bit intriguing.
Especially now that NW essentially had to admit that their rationale for firing him was largely overblown.
He has a history of doing more with less resources and getting the most of his talent. The second part has been completely lacking here since 2016...
Boring or not, I want a guy who can win some games and not give the entire VT fanbase premature cirrhosis when attempting to watch us play.
We tried the splash G5 "QB whisperer"--he sucked. We tried the Blue Blood Coordinator--he somehow even sucked more.
Plus, he wants to be vindicated, he's gonna come in hungry and looking to make a statement. I wouldn't dismiss him
Idk, I think he's an overrated coach. The fact that the team improved after he left is... not good.
You have to consider the context too though...
Their improvement (which was really just 2023) also coincided with a massive TV contract and huge financial investment (new Stadium)-neither of which Fitzgerald had the chance to benefit from.
Not saying he the ideal candidate but he's got more P4 wins than anyone else we will have any shot at and has all the motivation in the world.
Fitzgerald's whole value prop at NW was that he was a "molder of men". The fact that there was that hazing scandal under him and he had no idea what was going on really proves. He wasn't that great at the thing he was known for IMHO.
Chesney's been a HC since 2010 and his only losing season was 5-6 in his first year at Holy Cross in 2018. He would be the equivalent to Lance Leipold or Kalen Deboer, a guy who has just won at every level. I have doubts about Chesney, but he has won at multiple stops at multiple levels.
I don't care if he tries to finger bang at TOTs, I would take Urban Myer at this point...
Nope, nope, nope. That type of coaching won't work in the modern era. Can't rule by fear any more.
Dave hale on twitter
I don think it was better when we fired Fuente, our football staff is twice the size now and we are spending more money on football staff now that ever before. That doesn't mean its enough, its just better.
Greetings from the future, last week's thread!
Gus Malzahn has the FSU offense looking like a well oiled machine. How's he as a HC?
100000x no thank you
I'd be pumped about Gus personally. IMO that's the same as the Mullen hire.
Heck along those lines do you want Bobby Petrino to have a HC position again. /s
Bobby Petrino is universally hated by players, coaches, and ADs. He's had actual HR issues - sleeping with subordinates, etc. Gus might be a weirdo, but he carries none of that baggage, and I'd argue is a better offensive mind.
Also, look at his head coaching record. Yea, he got kinda screwed at UCF when they transitioned from G5 to P4/5, but otherwise, his record is pretty stellar. Gus would get this program back to .500 quickly.
Sorry, I forgot to put the /S. That said he is a great OC but I wouldn't want him anywhere near our program.
Malzahn would just be a repeat of Fuente. Run the QB on 3rd and long, run the QB into the ground, run the QB until he gets hurt. Malzahn can get it going as an OC sometimes, but as a HC he needs superior talent and he's not the greatest recruiter.
Is it bad that I would be ok with the entire JMU athletic department + football coach?
It worked for Tennessee
I wouldn't hate it, but I wouldn't be thrilled about it either. JMU has been building for a long time. That's very different from a turn around.
But I also laughed at the Tennessee hire. Fuck do I know 🤷
I'm curious to see how Year 2 post-Cignetti plays out
I think someone mentioned it somewhere, but give me Arians as GM and Mullen as HC.
I've heard rumblings that Aaron Rouse may be heavily involved in this transition in some manner. Not sure how I feel about that honestly. Listening to the SOS podcast this evening, Rouse apparently tweeted wishing Pry well and blaming Fuente for Pry's failure. Yes - blaming Fu for how terrible Pry's tenure was. That's insane.
Ehh I wouldn't read too much into that. I think (no #sauces) that Pry is well liked and no one wants to sink his career.
I get that. But I think Pry has done enough to sink his own career. No way he ever gets a sniff at an HC job again.
Yes, but he can still be in play for a coordinator role.
Agreed.
We gave Pry a near-total pass for 2022 because of Fuente.
But that didn't explain rolling Grant Wells out there again in 2023 and the total lack of in-game management.
Fuente and Pry were failed coaches but for very different reasons.
Still, in a theoretical matchup equal Rosters, Fuente eats Pry's lunch 95% of the time.
Yeah but roster building is half of the job, and Fuente in this era would struggle even more than Pry with that.
Roster building was half the job when Fuente (and Pry) were coaching. However, if we implement an NFL-like front office structure (which I think is what is being alluded to), roster building will fall mostly on the front office. And, honestly, that's where it needs to be. The HC doesn't need to be caught up in NIL negotiations. They need to focus on maximizing the performance of the talent available to them.
Athletic/NYT piece gives VT a grade of 'B' as far as how good the job is. Here is their list:
First I've seen Candle or Banks thrown around. Jason Candle or Chris Creighton are two successful MAC coaches with a history of doing more with less. Neither would be sexy, but I could get behind either.
I really hope they hire a football GM. And then go for a head coach after that. I would prefer someone with previous head coaching experience. A coordinator from a blue blood might work OK too. Of that list I might would think Huff checks the box of having success as a head coach somewhere and spent some time at blue bloods. But also is sorta kinda from the franklin coaching tree? I dont think anyone from the military academy would work well here unless we give up and just run a triple option. Jason Candle maybe?
Honestly a B is higher than I would've expected. Alex Kirshner said last night that Tech opening first could be interesting and I responded that I don't necessarily agree because of how we've fumbled the last two hires and how we've resorted to just being an entrance.
Maybe that can be a selling point, though. Give someone an opportunity to mold the program
It's interesting to see which names are thrown out. At this point it's a combination of journalists listing coaches that feel right to them and adding names that agents mention to them. The agents will say stuff mostly to get their clients a gig somewhere. So this either means they are interested in VT or getting their names out to signal that they're ready to jump somewhere/anywhere.
Or they are angling for a raise
Reese* Rece Davis said on SXM Off Campus today he thought VT was still a top job.*edit: one of us will get it right lol
Reece is a fantastic human being and I hope he's right.
Our normally supportive fan base alone makes us an okay job. Easy access to ACC Championship and playoffs makes it a good job.
This is mostly /s but we at least make Saban say no, right?
I think first you'd have to get him to actually take the phone call 😅
😂😂 Get Ms. Terry on the phone, stat!
This process will take most of the season and maybe the entire season. We have an Interim HC, and nothings happening until Whit is gone and he's replaced.
No one will take an AD job if they don't get to participate in the hiring process.
At least not a good one.
Exactly my point.
If we want some of these names we are looking at something like $26m a year in coaches and staff.
HC 8m (Kansas pays 7.5)
OC 1.7m
DC 1.7m
ST 1m
QB .5m
RB .5m
WR .5m
TE .5m
OL .5m
DL .5m
LB .5m
CB .5m
S .5m
Another 10 non recruiting assistant coaches at 100k each fo 1m total
That's 17.6m for coaches
GM is probable 1.5m-2m
Which leaves 5.4-6m left for like 45 staff
What is Hokie Nation going to think if we hire Dan Mullen and he brings Anthony Colandrea (who is playing very well right now at UNLV) and/or Alex Orji (former VT commit) with him to VT? Talk about coming full circle lol.
Colandrea would get intercepted on his flight back east so I don't think we'd have to worry about him making it here.
I agree. Mullen is honestly top on my list right now, barring some other unforeseen candidate with significant P4 winning experience surfacing. I think UF fans probably feel stupid for running him out of town. Napier has been significantly worse at everything since arriving there.
The grass is always greener...
I remember when Hokie fans complained about 10 win seasons
I distinctly remember when I was in school at VT, people were starting to complain about going to so many Orange Bowls, lol. Oh man how good did we have it...
I was one of those silly people. How ignorant I was.
I remember when the cracks started to show during those 10 win seasons and we refused to act because of a belief we should just accept the status quo and not strive to be greater
No, UF fans knew that he needed to go. They just feel stupid for hiring Billy afterwards.
I've been watching a lot of UNLV this year and Colandrea has looked very good. Opposite of him under Elliott in the latter parts of the season.
This is the question that needed to be asked
Bryant Haines seems like the right fit, but I'm sure some people would find him underwhelming...I think he's proven to be successful in maximizing talent, recruiting the right type of players and solid VA ties. Cigs has made it clear he's his most coveted assistant. If he brings both Sunsei brothers as the coordinators, I think that's actually not a bad setup.
https://sports.yahoo.com/article/ed-orgeron-announces-decision-coaching-...
Not saying he would be my guy, but just floating it out there that he is sounding like he is ready to get back into coaching. Now - is a guy that was fired for going 5-5 and 6-6 in the two years after winning the natty the right guy to ground up rebuild a program? I don't know.
I don't remember the exact circumstances of his firing, but I recall it was more than just the on-field performance ...too much baggage there?
He was also almost fired before he won the natty too I believe. Also, probably had one of the best offenses of all time in college football that made winning it pretty easy. On top of you don't really have to recruit at all in Louisiana as LSU. The players practically commit when they get their birth certificates.
I'm shedding my 5+ decades of Hokie thinking. I think VT needs to get a currently employed by someone else... successful... P4 coach. Not someone who might be successful; someone who almost certainly would be successful at VT. Even if we have to overpay the salary. Even if have to pay a buyout. We simply can't bump spending by athletic department by $60 million or more and miss. Just can't. In terms of a coach, I'm not the first on this board to mention Drinkwitz but he's winning in the SEC at Mizzou. That's the level of hire we have to make.
This is impossible to measure until they succeed or fail at VT. The perfect hire can end up a bust. An unexpected hire could have humongous success.
A large international consulting firm just went thru a round of selecting who would be elevated to senior manager. ALL of the candidates they considered were already performing successfully at the level they were being interviewed for.
VT needs to stop thinking small. If we have the budget, only consider candidates that are already successful in the current environment. No more, I think he can do it at a higher level, or we can develop him.
This is essentially what I meant when I said we need a proven coach, no more experiments. You elaborated more and put it better than I did
Well said. To quote our beloved athletic director... "our resources don't match our expectations". If we make a budget hire, we should expect budget results. Fingers crossed that this pending athletics overhaul includes championship-level football investment.
You want to hire Drinkwirz away from Mizzou?
Why not other than the 20 million cost (guessing)
Curious who the selection committee will entail. I know we have tossed out a few Hokie-centric names to be involved like Arians and Jeff King but who outside our circle would you seek to have involved? I know there was a joke about pursuing Saban for Coach but would it hurt to seek him participating on the selection committee? If you were King for a Day who would you want helping with the process?
Anyone but John Ballein. Please god, do not let him wiggle his way somehow into the decision making process yet again.
Godfrey made a comment at the end of the pod he and Ryan Nanni did today talking about us and UCLA that he's pretty sure he knows who is going to run the search but didn't want to say anything yet because "paperwork still needs to be signed." He said he'll likely have an update on that in an episode later this week.
Not a single comment for jimbo fisher????????????????????????????????????
He's still raking in the comments from ATM so I didn't feel the need to contribute
I saw someone post that on Facebook...my first thought was he would lose his sh*t two days into dealing with NIL now. He used it to his advantage early on but has been in the news more since being fired advocating for all kinds of restrictions and controls on it so not sure now is the right time for a move like that.
What's Bo Pellini up to these days
Obviously not specifically Bo Pelini because it appears he's been out of coaching for 5ish years, but being stuck in "9-3 Hell" seems like a damn good situation these days.
He went 9-4, 10-4, 10-4, 9-4, 10-4, 9-4, 9-3 (fired before bowl game), three seasons in the Big 12, and four seasons in the B1G.
Clemson made the ACCCG, and through that, the playoff, last year as an unimpressive 9-3 team. If someone could promise me this level of VT football for at least seven years, I would sprint to sign up for that.
framed thusly, it is absolutely wild that Nebraska fired him
what has Nebraska done since he was fired you ask?? Well, I wondered the same thing. Here it is.
6-7, 9-4, 4-8, 4-8, 5-7, 3-5*, 3-9, 4-8, 5-7, 7-6
*Covid
They've had two winning seasons and only 1 with more than 8 wins since firing Bo. They f'ed up bigly
I think he got the Seth Greenberg treatment. Seth was a good coach but a complete jerk, and Weaver was sick of dealing with him.
Except winning 9 games in a power conference is like making it to the Sweet 16 or at least the second round every year. Greenberg couldn't even get into the tournament.
Just make an AI ingest Bud and Frank footage and pop it in a humanoid robot body (I'm sure Tech has one somewhere) and bam.... Future invented!
But for real, I think most important thing is to actually get an HC and a GM. Let the coach be an Xs and Os person and just coach. Dont bog them down with playing personnel director, its become too big of a job these days
Seeing a lot of names I like and some that I don't. I'll put my board right now as:
1. Jon Sumrall
2. Lance Leipold
3. Matt Campbell
4. Glenn Schumann
5. Willie Fritz
6. Tim Beck + Jerry Kill
7. Alex Golesh
8. Dan Mullen
9. Jason Eck
10. Kalani Sitake
11. Dave Clawson + a recruiting/portal coordinator + enhanced NIL for player retention
12. Bob Chesney
13. Brian Newberry
No: Ryan Silverfield, Jason Candle, Brian Hartline, Bryant Haines
Not terrible but still no: Pat Fitzgerald, Charles Huff, Fran Brown, Jamey Chadwell, Jeff Monken
Oh interesting
We dont have Leipold money. He makes like $7.5m
Someone smarter than me and chime in on this, but there's a part of me that wonders if maybe we need to just magically come up with that kind of money. There is a part of me that wonders specifically, if trying to shop for coaches on our current budget will mean that in due time we will not be able to afford coaches event at our current budget level.
If the rumors of raising money are true, then maybe we could match Leopold's Kansas salary. But that dude turned down Nebraska and Wisconsin to stay in Kansas. He's wired different.
I wouldn't be so sure
I think we're going to have to find this $$ if we're serious about building a competitive program.
I agree which is why i said we need $25m a year budget minimum, but thats not pulling top 25 paid coaches away from their schools. I would assume we have to break $30m to make big waves. Clemson is about $20m with just the HC and on field recruiting coaches. Five of their assistants make over $1m. I'm sure there are assistant coaches like we have that cant recruit and a number of staff. FSU is about $18-19m and increases by at minimum 500k next year for Malzahn.
If we are patching coaches from top programs to do the same role then we are looking at closer to $1m for an assistant coach as they are making $750k+ at the top programs, that is DC money at VT.
This is a colossal and, I think we would all agree, virtually impossible IF.
But what do we do if Montgomery somehow pulls a miracle out of the rest of the season?
I will answer your question with a question.
We have to set the bar - all things considered...what would be considered a miracle? 6 wins? From what we've seen so far - not even considering the probable loss of players to the portal, Monty getting thrust into the HC spot, etc. - 6 wins to me would seem pretty miraculous.
6 wins at this point would be a miracle, but that still wouldn't be enough to impact plans going forward at all. I think to move the needle the miracle would have to be winning the next 9 games, winning the ACC championship, receiving an auto bid to the playoff, and then at least looking competitive in the playoffs. And even that kind of miracle would probably only qualify Montgomery or other contributing coaches for an interview among other candidates and still not change anything about the AD hiring process or restructuring of the department. Short of that, there's just too many problems to solve for the next 9 games to make any difference at all.
I think the only thing the result of the remaining games this season will effect is the size of the NIL offers for next year that the current players on the team receive to stay or transfer elsewhere.
I think that would be miraculous to anyone that's paying attention to the program but to media and the general public it would have to be making it to the ACC title game and winning, because just making it there would be written off as "look at how bad the ACC is"
To be completely frank 3 wins would seem like a miracle to me with this schedule we essentially play the top half of the conference this year and that's assuming we can organize enough to be Wofford who is exceptionally bad this year but could still win.
I'd consider, with the roster we have now and the one we are likely to have in the next few days:
1 win = meet expectations
2 wins = good
3 wins = very good
4 wins = excellent
Not sure what is needed to offer him the HC job next year. Probably better than 4. But if he somehow manages to get 6 wins the rest of the way, you certainly have to make him a top candidate.
I think more than 3 wins would be miraculous
I also think that the only way Montgomery could possibly earn the full-time gig as VT HC would be winning the National Championship
Here's what I THINK will happen - the distractions from this week skuttle our chances against Wofford and we lose a tightly contested game on a game winning FG from Wofford as time expires. We get throttled by pretty much every team in the ACC. Then, in November, we play UVA and they come into the game confident because of how bad winless lil VT is and we smack them in the mouth early and end up winning the game to get our only win on the season, sending the outgoing coaches and players out on a high note.
The new coach is announced before December and we have the best transfer portal season in school history, completely remaking our entire roster and go into 2026 expected to finish in the bottom 1/4 of the ACC but come out strong and win 8 games in year 1 under the new coach.
*a guy can dream
Our only win being UVA would be the funniest outcome. So, if we're going to continue to be dreadful this year, I'd be on board with that.
If he wins 2 ACC games he gets a token interview.
If he wins the acc championship he gets a serious look.
If he wins the national championship he gets a statue.
For the record, I think we beat wofford comfortably this Saturday. These are D1 athletes. There HAS to be enough of them with enough pride that they can rally and at least beat wofford to show they're not the worst team in America. I dont expect to win any acc games except uva because LOLuva.
More names to throw on the pile
I don't see Curt or Shane leaving their respective positions willingly to try to right the ship at Blacksburg. Curt has a good thing going at Indiana (at least for now) with no real expectations and the B1G. Shane seems to really like SC and also has been pretty adamant he doesn't want to coach here, he'll ride that SEC money until they run him out of town.
Yea as someone pointed out on here in the last couple days, Shane and Curt are being named so their agent has leverage for a bigger contract. There's absolutely no way they would leave a P2 conference for VT with money problems.
Fire up the flight tracker
I think it's less the conference and more the salary and resources. If Indiana was Indiana in 2019 we could 100% steal their coach. But Cignetti fired up their big boosters and fundraising arm, they have money and they're all aligned. He won't leave unless it's for a ton of money at a better situation
I don't think Shane ever would, he's just in here by virtue of his last name
Shannon is the only actual potential coach on that list. Shane ain't coming home.
EDIT: Shannon might be the only potential, but I want either a proven HC or a up and coming HC with experience. No more coordinators.
After Pry...I would have similar concerns about Dawson.
Doing "great things" as a Coordinator with top-level talent and Transfer Portal QBs.
Could he replicate that here with what will clearly be less talent??
If we hire another coordinator with no HC experience, after what we've just experienced... I'm out next year
I'm good for it only if we bring in proven coordinators who have a track record of making it work elsewhere, ideally with head coaching experience at the P5 or NFL level before flaming out. Lets say Mike McDaniel gets fired by Miami and we are able to bring him in, I'm all for that as a complement to a top coordinator being promoted to head guy.
Look how many posts we've already got on potential new coach candidates, and just think....we've likely got like 4 more months to speculate
Dwight Vick is tweeting that he would be interested in some kind of role with the program. I wouldn't hate it
What we need in a head coach is probably going to depend on what the football front office looks like and who ends up in there. Recruiting may not be as important for a head coach going forward if the front office is finding and signing the players (yes I chose those words specifically).
We need to change our perception of college football, find talent evaluators and recruiters for the front office and find an X's and O's guy for the head whistle who can also motivate the players.
I also think the structure is going to be in place before the end of the season, maybe not with all the front office positions filled, but they will be identified.
We need to pump a truck ton of cash into our program. Put the word on the street that VT is dropping loads all over the place. Put forth such a number that everyone will know VT is serious. We do this and I think just about any candidate will consider us an option. In today's landscape money talks and bullshit walks. At this moment in time, it's all about the Dough Rae Me.
This is basically the way that Godfrey described how a pitch could work for Shane (not saying I agree with Shane or not, but that's just the example he provided). He basically said the talking point that Pry kept going back to was that we were Clemson before Clemson was Clemson. Well everything flipped for them when they figured out the fundraising and started funding the program at a competitive level. Godfrey basically said if we were to go to Shane with a detailed plan of how we're going to fund our football program at Clemson's level and couple that with an easier route to a guaranteed playoff spot than South Carolina has basically fighting for 8 or 9 wins and maybe sneaking in, it would make a pretty compelling offer.
Even if it's not Shane (again, not saying whether I want it or not, I really don't know if I would), that could be pretty compelling for many potential coaches, but it starts with the money.
Why is BetOnline putting Jon Gruden as the betting favorite?
for the memes
and more importantly, to get people to place bets
meme betting is the only way I bet
1) He is too old.
2) He has too much baggage.
3) He has never done college coaching.
*leecorsonotsofastdotgif*
He was a GA for Tennessee for 2 years, the passing game coordinator for SE Missouri State, and the TEs coach for Pacific!
/s
Anyone who suggests Gruden knows absolutely nothing about college football.
I can sit corrected on #3. I still don't want him.
No one should. He'd be a disaster.
Yep. Put there solely to draw in the rubes
For those wondering...
Betonline knows that people are dumb enough to wager on Gruden
I don't like our chances at Mullen based on this graphic
I don't like the fact that the first coach I would be excited about starts at +800.
Edit: I can't read good
We'll, the first two aren't realistic, so your odds are probably better.
what does +NUMBER mean?
Those are Moneyline odds
ok so in this case it means what exactly? that they have gruden as the favorite? are they serious?
sorry, im not a gambling guy.
Here's why I said the numbers are meaningless.
In the Gruden case, they know there are a lot of memes surrounding him at every school and they want to capitalize on that engagement. People will bet the meme and not worry about losing the couple of bucks they bet. Unlike some of their other numbers, it isn't predictive. It is just trying to entice people to make the bet.
Correct, you could read it as winning the least money for gambling on Gruden because he is hilariously the favorite based on those odds.
Per Google Ai: In American betting odds, a plus (+) sign indicates the underdog and shows how much profit you would win on a $100 wager. This betting format is also used for other types of wagers, like point spreads and totals.
What if I told you these numbers are meaningless?
I know it's not an immediately recent occurrence but nice to see you back around here for the season -- i enjoyed that fantasy maps series you shared here and on r/cfb. Extra nice to see someone join back up with the way the community has changed over the years
It's good to be back!
I'm firmly in the break the bank for Cignetti camp. The man's had success everywhere he's coached. If we want to be serious about football, let's get fucking serious.
I just hate how much of a jerk he is.
Gotta give credit where credit is due though, dude definitely knows how to win.
As long as he's not out assaulting people, covering it up, or kicking puppies, I can live with a bit of a jerk for a coach as long as the wins follow.
Like I said with Buzz, he might be an asshole, but hes our asshole, I mean now hes back to just an asshole.
That's all I want in life, to be somebody else's asshole...
Wait that doesn't sound right.
I think you're looking to say: One day we'll be back to where we fuck everyone's asshole on a weekly basis.
If you're going to be an asshole, you've certainly got to take a lot of shit.
Aka Bryce Harper for me, a Nats fan.
he never said anything bad about us, he just was who he was. dont be sad or mad that hes gone, be glad he was here
legend
Not sure why he would come here, unless it was really all about the money (even then, Indiana probably can afford more than we can).
He's got a great gig where I imagine the fan base loves him. He's in the P2 (meaning $ and security). He's not having to rebuild from the ground up.
Unless he just loves Virginia and a challenge, I think this move is highly unlikely.
Let's go old like UNC and hire Jimmy Johnson. The guy is as serious as one can get. Holds standards, garners respect, won SB's, and won NC at Da U when all the tomfoolery of NIL was absolutely happening under the table. Meaning, he knows how to leverage money to get the players and win.
No - we can only hire people with ties to VT - let's get Bruce Arians!
If we're doing that, then we need Drew Harris for running backs coach...
I know this was probably /s, but
lol Jimbo Fisher. What's the connection there?
From Appalachia, not currently coaching. I think that's the gist
He grew up in the same town as Stonewall Jackson, who was born in Virginia
Technically Thomas Jackson was born in Virginia and Jimbo was born in West Virginia
Yes, but same town.
Frank Loria born there too
Ok we have found the requisite obscure VT connection, must hire Jimbo now! /s
You're welcome
And he won a national championship, and he used to coach in the ACC. I think those are the 4 reasons he's being linked to this job.
I would hate it. Unless we hired Fuente back, I don't think there's another option I would hate more than hiring Jimbo.
Hiring Pry back?
Also Art Briles.
Good call on Briles
Yeah people talk shit on Freeze, he's infinitely better than Briles. Freeze is just a cheating hypocrite that doesn't know when to shut up.
So is Florida hiring Freeze or Briles?
Ehhh Freeze defended Ian McCaw (the guy who actually ordered the cover up at Baylor, so worse than Briles) from mismanaging sexual assault charges at Liberty, by dming and harassing a victim
He's pretty terrible
Yep, there's also really uncomfortable allegations from his time as a high school coach.
So, Freeze didn't cover up rape, but he's more than just an adulter, a john, and a hypocrite - on top of all that, he's a fucking creep with a history of abusing his position of power.
1) I forgot about the high school stuff
2) when I said cheater i meant in in more that adultery, he also cheated at football.
I live in Memphis where Freeze coached in High School and you wouldn't believe the rumors that have spread. I have no idea if they are true, but people implied a lot of stuff about him as a HS coach.
Sons of Saturday podcast from last night bringing some great discussion on future of the program/coaching candidates. A lot of truth here.
We are very likely going to have the resources to hire with the cream of the crop around the country when the dust settles. If you're advocating to pay Michael Vick or Shane Beamer with those level resources just because of the feel good VT connection, you're crazy. Great quote, "if Shane's last name weren't Beamer, would you feel the same about the hire?" Absolutely not.
I'm personally 100% onboard with the Mullen train. Not to say Mike Vick or Shane couldn't one day down the road be a candidate, but we need a proven winner with P4 experience right now. Mullen checks all of the boxes and has the coaching network to make incredibly good hires. Hand him a front office style NIL/recruiting operation and the resources we are rumored to be getting, and the next 7-10 years at VT could be truly transformative.
Also, for the sake of argument, let's just take every coach who has ever coached for VT in the last 70 or so years and stack their all-time record as of today against Dan Mullen. Obviously Frank is at the top with an all-time win percentage of 65.9%. Dan Mullen would come in right at number 2. A 63.5% all-time win percentage, with all of that in the SEC. He's also 7-3...I'll say that again, 7-3...all-time in bowl games. Something Frank never quite mastered with a below .500 record in bowls.
Enough with experiments. This is the obvious choice.
In 2015 - absolutely not.
In 2025 - abosultely.
IMO Shane has proven himself at SCar.
I still think there is a zero chance he comes here, and I think he has no interest in coaching at a school where his dad has a statue. But if he wanted to come here, I'd be happy about it.
The question is not if Mullen is the obvious choice for us. The question is if we are an obvious choice for him.
The SOS podcast actually mentioned this in passing. Shane right now to date is kind of like an early Dan Mullen - has had some decent success at a doormat SEC program, certainly elevated things and has some expectations now. So you do have a fair point, there is maybe more substance to it right now other than the Beamer name.
But you have basically early Dan Mullen copy vs actual Dan Mullen right now, who I think has a ton of tread left on the tires. Couple that with the fact that I truly now don't think Shane wants the pressure of having to live up to Frank's legacy at VT and is happy at South Carolina. Really drives the choice home for me.
But that Dan Mullen copy actually recruits
This is a totally false narrative. Mullen had two top 15 and two top 10 classes at UF. He also recruited way, way above their league at MS State (many top 20-top 25 caliber classes). And in today's CFB landscape, I'm more concerned with a really strong football COACH who has the network to build an equally good COACHING staff, with a strong NIL/recruiting support staff around them.
Yeah Shane has done well recruiting, but is South Carolina actually good this year? They just got punched in the mouth as bad as we did almost by Vandy. I just feel like the Beamer last name plus SEC hype has Shane a little above his weight class in this search. I like Shane, but I think he has more to prove.
To be fair, Mullen also said: "We're in the season now. We'll do recruiting after the season. When it gets to recruiting time, we can talk about recruiting," after getting blown out by UGA. He also had scouting issues - his 2019 class had seven top-150 recruits, but only 1 (Kaiir Elam) worked out. Pretty sure he also had a roster imbalance issue (like Fuente) but I might be misremembering.
THAT SAID - I don't think that matters as much at VT. VT doesn't need to jump from the 15th best class to the 5th. We need to get back to being a top 30 class year in year out.
If Sellers is healthy, they are. Also, last season was a great run. I think SCar is a tough job, and Shane is arguably the second best coach in program history.
He was fired because he didn't recruit to the standard that Urban Meyer did and to the direct competition at UGA. UGA having #1 classes and winning championships is the primary reason Mullen got fired. Dude still took a team with a backup QB to the SEC championship game.
Agreed.
Dan Mullen at Florida: 34-15 (.667)
Winning on the field didn't seem to be an issue. Winning recruiting rankings was.
Mullen got fired because his last season...and the last 3 games of the previous year...went to shit. 2-9 in his last P-5's; 1-7 in one score games; kept buddies on the staff who weren't performing (Grantham in particular); and ultimately lost his team. If defense was the only issue, why not just require him to hire a new DC? They'd just extended his contract and gave him a raise. So...
Here is Gene Frenette's article from that time period and if you think we might get Mullen, it's pretty informative.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/sports/columns/gene-frenette/2021/11/...
If we chase Mullen, the search committee will need to get the inside details on the not publicly discussed issues from Stricklin (who looks like he'll have something in common with Whit soon).
I think Mullen can totally coach. But there are some red flags.
I'm not defending Mullen here. I just thought this was as good a spot as any to say this:
I'm willing to bet that every coach has red flags if you dig deep enough. Nobody is perfect. I think the trick is finding a coach who's red flags aren't super obvious. Or, finding a coach who's red flags can be mitigated in some way.
Pry had red flags - then he doubled down and brought in two green coordinators with their own red flags. He did the exact opposite of mitigate his own red flags - he exacerbated them. Immensely. And we all know how that went.
It's one reason I like this series by bar1990 - he's going to focus on the strong suits of potential candidates - then we can find the red flags as we dig deeper but instead of using those as reasons NOT to hire the guy, lets use them more as tools for identifying what we need to surround that guy with to mitigate those red flags.
I hear that. And if it's all the obvious stuff, then yes mitigate for those. The guy absolutely knows his shit.
But if you haven't read the article, here are some items...
"his too often snobby disposition and other things athletic director Scott Stricklin refused to divulge, but doesn't take much ingenuity to figure out, is what got him fired Sunday." the relevant Stricklin quote is "a lot of times the losses or things that don't go right on the field, those are symptoms of other issues. I'm not going to get into all that because I don't think that's fair to everyone involved.."
"It went beyond those 9 losses in the last 11 games...spilled over into Mullen looking as if he was instigating his own demise"
losing in OT to Missouri after "making no attempt to move into field goal range during the final minute of regulation"
"his perpetual I'm-the-smartest-guy-in-the-room attitude"
So yes, do the due diligence.
Ryan day hasn't beaten his main rival in over a 1000 days. He has only driven a Ferrari, can he win with a yugo?
Dabo Swinney record post NIL is way below before. His coaching tree has a winning % of like 30%. He also seems like an asshole.
Saban won't let boosters run the program. So if you want more than winning you don't want him
The context of that mullen quote is wildly stripped out -- he got asked a question about recruiting and replied "we're in the season now. We'll do recruiting [Q&As] after the season". But it got all blown out of proportion bc in writing it just looks like he said they didn't "do recruiting" during the year
And there was already this narrative of him getting outrecruited by Kirby
The larger context was that he'd been getting beaten up for weeks in the local press/talk shows re: recruiting. The question wasn't a surprise, nor was the answer.
Florida's leadership wasn't happy with the recruiting but they extended his contract and upped his salary less than 6 months before he was fired. Recruiting wasn't the final straw, imo.
And yet after the nonsurprise question and the nonsurprise answer, all anyone remembers is the "lol mullen cant recruit 🤣🤣🤣 he said they'll DO RECRUITING after the year 🤣🤣"
certainly all of the anyones who don't get a regular diet of UF
This is UF in sunny Florida as the hotbed of recruiting. Top 15 is a bad year. Napier has back to back top 10 classes. How is Tennessee out recruiting UF? Or Clemson? I would say there are only 4-5 schools that should consistently recruit better than UF, Bama, OSU, Texas, and maybe Oregon. I would say Michigan but they haven't been consistent enough for the last 30 years to do so. You might argue UGA but I think Kirby is just a better recruiter than most.
Mississippi state just signed the 22nd class after going 2-10.
Mullen has recruited at the levels that the schools recruit at with coaches that get fired. I dont see him recruiting better at VT than Pry or Fuente, however I would be his roster management and use of the players would be better.
Like I said - would gladly take Mullen, and would prefer him over shane. I just don't know how he feels about VT in 2025.
Shane and south carolina are frauds. Vandy trounced and exposed them. Oh,Sellers got hurt. Okay, the same Sellers and offense that put up 17 points on our vaunted defense? Three games in and everyone has seen our linebackers and secondary perform; and all Sellers and SC could muster was 17 points? Yeah, they're frauds.
They had an excellent season last year, and beat Clemson 2 years in a row. He's succeeding there. One loss doesn't make you a fraud.
There have been four coaches ever to have two 8-win seasons at SCar:
In 4 full seasons, Shane's had three winning seasons, and two seasons finished ranked in the top 20. SCar is tough job man. Shane's doing well there.
Are we not counting Bob Williams, Jim Carlen and Will Muschamp that also had 8-win seasons at South Carolina?
That's seven 8-win coaches, which is about the same as VTin that time.
Muschamp had one 9-win season.
Jim Carlen was overlooked, my bad. But that was also when SCar was independent, in their time between the ACC and SEC.
Anyways - my point stands - SCar is a tough job, and Shane is doing pretty good there IMO.
my bad, you did say two or more 8 win seasons
I think if Shane wasn't a Beamer I wouldn't consider him a possibility because VT wouldn't be able to poach an SEC coach from a team that almost went to the playoff (see Drinkwitz, Eli). But I would be excited if we hired Shane "Smith" because he's done a fantastic job at SCAR and has major program experience at OU.
I actually know a Shane Smith who is a gamecock lol
If it's the same Shane Smith I know, he's still living through his Salem HS glory days.
Nope!
I'm not holding my breath for this. The delta between today and where we need to be to hire the cream of the crop is enormous. The idea that the BOV and other powers that be are going to make a complete 180 from the way that they've approached funding VT athletics for the entirety of the program's existence seems suspect at best.
Came here to say the same. Similar to when we hired Pry, I expect additional investment to get us back near the competitive ballpark but that it will quickly become outdated over the next few years. Until proven otherwise.
I understand the concern.
I'd counter in that BOV chairman Rocovich is seemingly now personally involved, and our chances of success are much higher.
He has asked two other BOV members to present a plan Sept. 30 NOT on what VT should be looking at doing; but with a specific goal of $200 million budget and a new structure to athletics. Mr. Rocovich is a guy that starts with the end in sight and doesn't negotiate.
Imagine if VT does come back and fund athletics better than most of the peer institutions....
Most of the TKP discussions I've read have been more of the hope we can improve the status quo, rather what IF VT actually restructures and has the $200 million to spend. What if that happens?
I certainly hope that you're correct, and I know Rocovich is new(er) to the BOV, but some idiot on the BOV was literally quoted as being *surprised* by Whit's presentation. Everyone who has paid any attention to collegiate sports at all over the last 10+ years was aware of how far behind we'd fallen...how could she have been surprised!?
I hope he has the juice to make this happen, but as far as athletics are concerned, the BOV has sat on their collective hands while Whit has driven VT football into a ditch. I'll believe it when I see it.
Need some fungicide.
Y'all listen to new phantom island yet? I can post the transcript after lunch but TLDR (at least as I remember it 10 min after listening):
.
Godfrey just telling us all to shut up and wait lmao
This was my question haha.
To add to your 3rd bullet, it sounds like good coaches are interested but they need the commitment you mention. He also said there are plenty of coaches who would take this in a heartbeat but that probably says something about the quality of the coach willing to do that.
The point he's made on several podcasts now is that being first to market doesn't mean what it used to because whenever Florida opens they'll reset the market anyways. This move was to keep any amount of fans showing up to games to show that Tech was at least doing something after the ODU ass kicking.
At least we won't have to worry about Florida taking Mullen off the table.
I agree with this, but it is also I think (and hope) finally the BOV getting pissed off and taking the reins.
What we've all seen/endured is simply unacceptable.
You can't 'reach for excellence," or "invent the future" when you suck.
No, VT is not Harvard or texa$, or (fill in the blank) but we're not chicken salad. We've got great research, faculty, alums that are very passionate; and at the moment-pissed off.
The athletic dept desperately needs a course correction, and I think that starts with a culture shift at the top. Im hoping we're seeing the beginnings of this.
It doesn't have to be natty's (although that's cool too), but the minimum standard should be if you stamp a VT on something, it shouldn't SUCK.
I try hard at my job everyday and to be a good human, as I know other TKPers do. When people ask, find out my educational background, I'd like to think I'm a credit to that. Not to be cocky, but I have high standards that I meet as I represent my self, work, community, family and VT.
So, VT should be showing that it will meet high standards as well.
I get not winning everything: that's competition. What i don't expect is sucking. That is institutional failure IMO.
Any NFL coordinators or coaches people like or would be a possibility? McDaniel from the dolphins has to be on a pretty hot seat after the 0-3 start. Estimate is he's making around $4 mil/year so probably not too much of a stretch that some school could pony up enough to convince him to move to college if he does get the axe.
I don't think a lot of those guys want to coach college. College is way more working hours.
what's derek dooley up to these days?
Well done. This is a very high quality joke that works on multiple levels.
Listening to the TSL Podcast yesterday - the interview with David Teal, I found his take on two candidates very interesting.
1. Pat Fitzgerald. I think he checks a lot of boxes for us and really out punted his coverage at NW. Tough, hard nosed guy who gets the most out of his players. Loves defense and always had a disciplined team. If he ended up as the Hokie HC (not even suggesting he's on the radar), I wouldn't hate it. The significant downside is that he's been out of the game for a minute and this is a vastly different era than the one he coached in. Could he adjust? IDK. I'm not saying I'd be over the moon excited, but I wouldn't hate it.
2. Bob Chesney. Teal mentioned that he's won everywhere he's been (we know this). He has a cohesive staff that has, in large part, been with him. I love the way he runs his practices and manages his team. I wasn't sure why until I heard that he is a student of the NFL model - i.e. how to manage a staff, team, and practices. He is in tune with how all those things work, which would give him some advantages of embracing, or leading, an NFL model of running a program. I do think we need to be swinging for a guy like Mullen IMO (for all the reasons mentioned above), but if we swing and miss on a couple guys, this would be a "lower level" coach I wouldn't hate.
For me, I can't do somebody who is currently out of coaching. They will have limited knowledge on the current class/landscape, and no transfers to bring with them for next year. That's just going to be a no for me.
And no more projects. Chesney is mostly a potential hire - very little evidence to suggest that he has or can be successful winning at a P4 program.
My criteria is basically Dan Mullen, Matt Campbell as 1A 1B. You'd have to really convince me to hire someone who doesn't have significant P4 wins on their resume recently, and can bring in people for next year.
Matt Campbell would be a great success.
What do you consider 'significant P4 wins'?
I would say multiple (3-4+) years of proven experience and wins at a P4 tier school.
So your list is basically:
Those are the only active coaches I can find who have at least 3 years of P5 coaching experience and have at least a 55% winning percentage in their last 3 years coaching at the FBS level.
I would love Matt Campbell here.
I would too - especially in the NIL era. But I will believe it when I see it.
Sadly, same
That's what I think it's going to take for VT to rebound. We are going to have to poach an active, winning P4 coach.
Man, I think at most 4 of those guys (Campbell, Klieman, Burt, Mullen) would be remotely open to VT.
How would you feel about Dave Clawson?
Love Dave Clawson, he's a great coach. But I'm pretty sure he left due to NIL/the portal. But maybe if we have a GM managing those aspects more he would be open to coming back.
Downside is though he's not currently coaching so no transfers to bring in right off the bat.
I'm starting to wonder if Dabo might be a possibility too.
I think he left due to being at Wake forest during the NIL/Portal era.
Fair
Hard pass from me. Personality/baggage aside, he's doing everything possible to not embrace the portal/NIL. Give me someone who leans into it.
Yeah I want nothing to do with Dabo. He has only used the portal when absolutely forced to. Just has not adjusted to the changing environment at all.
he'd never come here to work for a GM
Counterpoint - A number of those coaches weren't proven Power Conference winners when they were hired at their current jobs:
-Kyle Whittingham (first head coaching job)
-Matt Campbell
-Chris Klieman (there's talk of him being on the hot seat; his previous experience was FCS)
-Sonny Dykes (19-30 record at Cal from 2013-14; SMU was in the AAC when he made the move to TCU)
-Marcus Freeman (first head coaching job)
-Dan Lanning (first head coaching job)
-Dabo Swinney (first head coaching job)
-Ryan Day (first head coaching job)
-Kirby Smart (first head coaching job)
I think the point is that we're now 0-2 in hiring unproven coaches. We can't afford another one.
I get the point, but VT isn't the program that is able to hire successful power conference coaches away from their current programs. That space is reserved for the bluest of the blue bloods. We could hire a proven coach who is no longer coaching at a power program (Mullen, Fitzgerald). Look at the list that bar1990 made, which one of those coaches is gettable? Mullen because he's now at UNLV, Campbell who's had much better offers than VT and passed, Dykes who's struggled since making it to the National Championship Game, or Klieman who may be on the hot seat at KSU?
My point is two-fold, and I made the same point during the last coaching search:
1) Very few programs can poach proven head coaches from other power programs, and we are not one of those programs (i.e. we're not poaching Sark from Texas or even Drinkwitz from Mizzou)
2) Most head coaching hires are risks. The rate of return on hiring a G5 head coach (Fuente) vs. a great coordinator (Pry) aren't all that different, and some of the best head coaches in the sport today had no previous head coaching experience. There is no guaranteed strategy or "proven" candidates for 90% of teams.
If hiring a head coach, drafting a QB, or hiring a transit agency head was easy, every team would win and the trains would always run on time.
I think a G5 headcoach with P5 experience would be a great get that is not unfathomable. Sumrall, Golesh, Kane Walmack, Charles Huff, Tyson Helton, etc all fall into this category.
A sitting P4 coach - eg; Matt Campbell - would be an absolute home run. I just think there's so few options here. I suppose Stoops is an option. Potential Fickle as well, but I don't think his Catholic AF family would move to a town without a Catholic high school.
But things are going to get saucy in another four weeks. I'm guessing that at minimum 2 of Arkansas/Florida/Kentucky/Auburn will open. In the B10 I see Wiscy and Northwestern could open up, and they'll throw cash at someone. That's 3-6 jobs that are better than VT opening up.
If Northwestern wants to pay Mullen more than VT can, do you think he comes here? What about Arkansas or Kentucky? Mullen to Wisconsin would be hilarious.
I get that the hiring committee has to find candidates with both a high ceiling and a high floor. But I would temper expectations... Everyone (except UCLA, Cal, and Stanford) is increasing budgets too.
I'm also interested to see if there's a candidate out there who can bring players with him. Definitely curious what Alex Golesh does the rest of the season, and I know very little (aka nothing) about that roster, but if Golesh wins 10+, and is open to taking the VT job, and has 10+ starters who have elgibility left and are willing to make the move with him, then IMO he immediately becomes more attractive than a Dan Mullen who doesn't bring any players with him (because I think we really need to grease the wheels a bit at VT).
Why wouldn't Dan Mullen bring any players with him? Currently 4-0 at UNLV, and Colandrea like him or hate him is playing extremely well under Mullen. I'm sure there are a few guys he could bring, and possibly from elsewhere too due to the name factor of a coach of Mullen's caliber.
Also if we do target Mullen, huge bonus for us would be the UF opening certainly is a non-factor for us. Auburn I could see as potentially alluring but I think we could potentially be more attractive than the rest of that field.
What if Florida hires Drinkowitz or Lane? Then Ole Miss or Missouri are open, both of which are in the range of school that would hire Mullen.
I'm not saying Mullen is out of reach for us. I'm just saying it depends on how the dominos fall.
I could see Mullen going to Arkansas or Wisconsin, or even Kentucky. I doubt he goes to Ole Miss if Lane leaves, not sure he'd go to Auburn after what happened with Florida, but I think he'd do well there. He's not going to Northwestern.
Golesh has a good QB and a lot of Florida players and Florida HS connections which could be a plus.
Btw, it hasn't been talked about much, but I think Stoops would be a home run hire if he wants to leave Kentucky.
I agree that Mullen likely doesn't go to Ole Miss just because they hate him after he was at Miss. St. but I don't think it's out of the question. Auburn probably goes opposite of their ex, and Mullen is not opposite of Hugh. But again, wouldn't be shocked. Especially if he wins out at UNLV which is possible.
I can see Golesh to UF because they like offense. Sumrall to Auburn just seems to fit too.
No to Kelly but the rest i will reluctantly take.
I agree on both counts. I did think David Teal had a good take on these guys. My point, having not been entirely clear, was that if we swing and miss on a couple of our primary targets, these two could certainly be on a longer list of secondary candidates.
Fitz would be a terrible hire imo. His last 3 non-covid seasons all had 3 or less wins.
We should go all out for Mullen, Cignetti, and Leipold. But of all the other choices (not including Shane, I would like him but we don't need to go all out for him) I'd be hopeful with Chesney. All the other options - G5 coaches, P4 coordinators, P4 coaches making a move ie Satterfield, or Fitzgerald - I would be hesitant and just wait until I saw winning.
Forgot to add Cignetti and Leipold to my Tier 1 list but I think we are tracking on the same front. My only remote issue is potential buyout with those two aforementioned. It has been reported that Campbell has a very low buyout at Iowa State, and Mullen has a buyout technically, but the school has come right out and said they honestly don't have the cash flow to pay his contract moving forward. So I think that could be significantly negotiated. But that's a good range of candidates there with those four.
Talk about throwing random names out. SI has an article up putting DeAngelo Hall in the hat. Sorry, but no. I loved DHall on the field and while he has made his way into the NFL coaching ranks, it's another name that's never been a head coach and not even a defensive coordinator.
415 comments and not 1 mention of the obvious candidate
Rich
Rod
Light yourself and the couch on fire....
Cleanse this evil....
"Shake a brush at you" gif.com
Contemplating calling your comment "noise" to justify a downvote...
He has to get the "cousins" excited about their program again before he can rip their hearts out when he leaves again.
Please pay Fran Brown whatever he would like to become our next coach.
Fran "I ain't no bitch" brown
how about Nick Sorenson played and coached in NFL
I would take him for ST coordinator or a safeties coach.
Mike gundy out now too, so another p4 job is open
Feels like we need a coaching carousel thread.
(not it)
Bruce Arians on the Pat McAfee show today talking about his involvement with the GM and coaching hires and the new financial commitment/restructuring of athletics. Love how we are very deliberately and strategically talking about these changes and resources VT is bringing to show our commitment to the public through the media.
Also when asked about what we are looking for in a coach, Arians mentioned a great coach and someone who can help raise money as the two top criteria. I think he said "someone who is charismatic AND can actually coach ball." Felt like a pretty glaring indictment of Pry right there.
I think there was shade at Fuente too
I'm taking him at his word...so who on the list can (1) consistently out coach the opponent AND (2) has the charisma to charm donors
Nick Saban
What's Les Miles up to these days?
j/k
Probably tasting lots of grass varieties
Lol ngl he was next on my list
I mean he was a hell of a coach his only deficiencies were pretty basic SEC violations and paying players which was working and is legal now.
Don't forget incredibly boneheaded ways to lose games. Brilliant until the last 2 minutes of a lot of games.
edit: Also inappropriate behavior towards female staffers at Kansas
edit 2: It was students at LSU before he was hired at Kansas, but was cited in his being placed on leave before he and the team came to "a mutual agreement to part ways".
That was a thing? I know he had allegations at LSU with students but that was very vague with no sexual misconduct and his punishment was like "you can't use them as babysitters" which was also strange.
I'll allow the mishandling of certain 2 minute game situations if we're constantly ranked top 10 and have a natty.
Oops, misremembered. It was conduct at LSU that came out after he had been hired at Kansas. He wasn't technically fired.
his last few years he couldn't find a QB...that did him in more than anything
So really presumptuous premature question, if Montgomery manages to win 4 more with our current hot mess. Does he get an interview or the job?
Yes. 4 wins would be incredible this year.
4 wins would be incredible given the context. 4 wins would still be abysmal, though. Fire everyone. Let the new GM and the new HC bring in the people they want - no hold-overs for the sake of it.
I don't disagree, I'd give him an interview though because 4 wins is black magic at this point.
ACC is fool's gold. Any ACC wins must be taken with a grain of salt. We can't forget that we got well beaten in the best game the team has played (SCAR), embarrassed by Vandy and then boat-raced on our own field by ODU. Wofford was a nice re-set win but they are an entire step below us for a reason. We never should have even been worried about Wofford - that's the type of game that most P4 teams see on the schedule as an automatic absolute drubbing where the backups get into the game in the 3rd quarter and the starters lose their helmets on the sidelines. That wasn't the case for us (that I know of).
Any wins in the ACC, as great as they will feel, will be against equally terrible teams. The conference is actively fulfilling their prophecy of being a complete pretender of a power football league. I, for one, cannot wait for the ACC to completely crumble. It's a shit league with shit leadership and has been for decades.
no - for him to get a look he'd have to win the ACC and make the playoffs
I want EVERYONE gone. Sometimes when you have an infection in the knee you have to cut the whole leg off. You can't keep the "good parts" to a bad leg.
THIS. My goodness, he's won one game versus Wofford. The offense has looked pretty abysmal through most of the first third of the season. Really rooting for Monty this season and hope he can get some wins out of this group and sets himself up for a good opportunity next year somewhere. But everyone associated with this staff should be gone.
That was my thought for the most part as well. But as I said if he wins 4 more does he get the interview?
No. He's gotta do way better than that
This is close to my take as well. ACCCG game appearance gets him the job IMO. That implies wins over at least three of Louisville, GT, FSU, Miami - all legit top 25 teams.
I'm not a really a monty fan. His time at Baylor irks me (off the field stuff), and I think he's been kinda mid since. Wouldn't be thrilled if he was our coach next year.
I'd like to see Matt Moore stay. He's a good OL coach who had good lines at WVU. He also brought a lot of good upside guys with him who would probably leave if he left.
Elijah Brooks has also done a good job with the running backs IMO. He's recruited well out of the portal and high school, and while we haven't really seen much development outside of PJ, I think Mason has upside if he sticks around next year.
Not saying I'm ready to keep him after the way the Vandy and ODU games went, but I am interested in watching CSS's defense the rest of this season now that he's untethered from Pry.
If he can make his system work against an ACC schedule with all those young players, then he might just have some secret sauce.
I mean legitimately speaking, if/when the funding goes through we can completely throw out what we think the coaching search would be and start over. Having a BoV approved budget that aligns us with the likes of FSU and Clemson and an academic side of the university aligned with needing football to be successful completely changes the game for us and opens up doors that were welded shut even a week ago.
Mmm I'm not sure about this. All the folks in the media I listen to (Staples, Godfrey, Richard Johnson, etc) are well aware of the $50m/year increase, and all of them are talking about our coaching candidates being (what I would consider) underwhelming.
Also, we've announced that we're going with GM route... I'm not sure how many sitting P4 coaches would like that.
It will depend on what the R&Rs are. If it is fundraising and recruiting, there might be some guys that would sign up not to not have to do that. Still a lot of questions that need to be answered.
I haven't seen any world where fundraising a recruiting are offloaded from the coach to the GM, and I don't see that happening in college football - I've seen the idea thrown around that a GM may own scouting and numbers - but I believe that college coaches will still have to be deeply involved in shmoozing donors and shmoozing recruits.
So yea, maybe there's some guys who hate dealing with contracts and stuff. IDK if coaches dislike scouting. I'm just very sus about how this is going to work in college. Just because the players are paid doesn't mean it's like the NFL.
What's Steve Addazio up to these days?
He had some Dudes.
Didn't he call one of our games for ESPN this year?
Isn't he calling games on the ACCNetwork? He has a lot of experience watching what not to do, that's for sure
Probably somewhere being a dickhead
Oklahoma State reportedly has reached out to Saban to gauge his interest in returning to coaching.
Honestly, if we haven't done this ourselves I would be pissed.
I don't know about him as coach but I'd definitely kick the tires with having him in the organization at some capacity - a little closer to the GM side
But he left coaching due to the stuff the GM side will be responsible for.
Ehhh he left coaching because NIL/Portal means he can't stockpile talent and keep high 4-stars ride the bench for 2 years.
Talent is more spread out than it has been at any point since the second/third bama title.
I wish a little more of it would spread to VT.
If we're dusting people off, how about Bob Stoops?
I think Mike Stoops (UK coach) is legit on the table.
I could see it. UK's fanbase is getting tired of him (unfairly IMO, they should build that dude a statue). If I were him, I would want to leave on my own terms instead getting fired.
I mean, getting fired comes with a fat buyout so I wouldn't hate getting fired.
But also he could do great at VT.
Give him a call, he might be willing to leave for a fresh start and a better shot at the playoffs.
Wouldn't we need to pay his $37M+ buyout?
If so, no thanks.
If Kentucky really wants him gone then I am sure they could come to a mutual separation.
He's clearly willing to leave, his flirtation with aTm a couple years ago proves that. I don't think he'd come here though. I'm pretty sure that I've heard a lot of national reporters imply that, at this point, he may be waiting for Ferentz to retire and go home to Iowa.
I've heard this too. But we should at least try to poach him. I think he'd kick ass here. His good Kentucky teams that go 7-5 are probably ACCCG contenders.
iirc there was some frustration with him not internalizing that kentuckistan will be a basketball first, second, and third school and he just won't get their level of resources
All this time, and we've been overlooking the obvious answer.
The man knows VT intimately, been coaching for years, currently has his team at 4-1, and he wouldn't even have to relocate.
That's right. Brian Motherfucking Stinespring
/sssssss
There are a lot of people that would not mind him for a recruiting position. he was good at that.
I thought he should've replaced Rudolph as OL coach
I am not sure I disagree. He was O line coach from 1995 to 2005? When we had a heck of a line.
what's Clay Helton up to these days
Georgia Southern head coach.
23 and 24 there
13 and 15 in Sunbelt.
Sucking
Well I don't have like sources sources but the skuttlebut I'm hearing is that VT is going all in on Franklin and he's negotiating. Some concern that he might be using us to lure a bigger fish. Hoping we have a good backup plan for if Franklin doesn't take a job here.
Also, is anyone else even a little bit concerned that we're going after yet another CJF?
I've kind of been assuming all along that all of this is to get a bigger fish to jump at him and we're just his fallback
Sounds like the early commitable offer to get the 4⭐️ bump so they can sign with PSU or someone else.
Good news is that Franklin is unlikely to sign with PSU
I don't know - saw a clickbait headline yesterday that said just that "PSU to rehire Franklin".
Where there's smoke, lol
I would be shocked if his agent wasn't playing the game. But if we remain the best option, then I'll take it. I'm sure part of negotiations is making sure he has a robust player and coaching salary pool.
And hey, if he is playing us to leverage a bigger job, I'm watching JMU @ Texas St. Don't think we have a bad backup plan 125 miles down I-81
agreed
I still think it's unlikely we'll land Franklin. I hope that when he snubs us our first calls are to Tyson Helton, Charles Huff and Bob Chesney (in no particular order). If we are able to land one of those 3 guys in the event Franklin doesn't work out I'd consider that a relatively successful coaching hire in this cycle and I'd be excited for football next year.
I think it's much more likely he's playing us to get a job somewhere else than he's CJF. I know you haven't been sold on him ever, but nothing in his history indicates that he'll crash and burn the same way Fuente did. Fuente was a G5 elevation to Power. Conference which always comes with major risk.
I think that was a joke about the initials
Wow. Whoosh. That's what happens at the end of a 15 hour day at the state capitol when I try to turn my brain from lobbying to football.
"Ain't no curses" - Coach Gary Gaines
So it's kinda similar when he flipped our commitments to go to PSU. Great
I'm not so sure that's the case. Staying in the region just makes a ton of sense for him. Same existing recruiting network, you can likely bring a ton of your 2026 class and transfers from PSU to VT day one, and staff has mid-Atlantic ties as well. Plus added benefit of directly sticking it to PSU in recruiting. Also I think his kids are in school at PSU too, so would still be close by. Just makes an enormous amount of sense for both parties.
Franklin is also a very petty dude. It would make sense that he'd want to become a pain in the ass for Penn St. He keeps his binder for how he planned to run Maryland when he was head coach in waiting in his office. He never became Maryland's head coach...
So, at Tech, he can be petty and bother BOTH Maryland and Penn State. Sounds okay to me.
Sounds like good motivation.
If we get Franklin, and this happens with class of 2026 and other transfers, 2026 in the ACC could be a fun year for VT
Franklin has so much money now, he isn't (or better put doesn't) need to do it for this. He knows he will get VT's top dollar offer. Easy negotiation for him and he will get most, if not all he wants from a staffing and support perspective.
I imagine this position as to why he is negotiating and is sincere about coming to VT.
He can go to an ACC school and not have to deal with such lofty expectations. He knows he good enough to start the rebuild process and will be able to do it (to what degree = TBD), but he will have success.
He will be heralded as the "founding savior" of VT Football. Not statue worthy, but Mike Vick effect worthy.
He will enjoy himself and love Blacksburg. He will stay here for a while, maybe even long term if he finds a Y/Y progression scenario to where we become a top ACC program.
He makes a ton of sense for the now. He may make a ton of sense for the mid term that either solidifies his position as the next Frank Beamer (from a tenure perspective) or launch VT into credible elite coach hiring status to get us to the next level (legit P2 program).
If Franklin gets us back to contending for ACC championships annually and CFP occasionally, I'll carve his statue myself!
If franklin is actually the candidate why would he want his new school to pay a hogh salary and get psu off the hook instead of dumping cash into support
That's where the "negotiations" come in. To structure a deal that simultaneously gets the most out of us in some sort of delayed fashion and from PSU in the near term.
Franklin's buyout clause from his PSU contract that Franklin must "make good faith efforts to obtain the maximum reasonable salary", so wherever he goes, he's not signing for scraps to make PSU pony up
That sounds sufficiency loosey goosey that good lawyers should be able to figure out how to make PSU pay.
After all, they're the ones who didn't think he was worth the money they were paying him, so it should definitely be less than that.
My guess is that it's quite the opposite. A duty to mitigate is a well understood contract term and Franklin's contract included that he had to maximize salary to offset the money owed.
I have suspicion that an agent would also use the requirements of a duty to mitigate clause as a starting point for compensation. Franklin's agent would say in order to sign Franklin today, his duty to mitigate would require that he does not sign a contract that does not completely offset his duty. Therefore, if you want to sign him early, the start of pay negotiation must start at the full offset. And his level of compensation can only decrease from that full offset when he has exhausted all his opportunities to get that compensation.
Using that as a starting point and having two or more schools attempt to outbid the other, I am willing to bet Franklin will be compensated an amount that is decently above the offset amount.
I also think it's risky to hire someone with a duty to mitigate clause. Sure, you can have him sign a contract with the same clause, but if he fails, he might not get a 3rd chance, and maybe he doesn't get a TV gig. His next employer may end up holding a large amount of the bag. If his next contract also includes the duty to mitigate, it would require him to pursue the best he can get, but what is the best he can get if fails a second time? And if it's VT, what's the best you can get after failing at VT?
TLDR - Franklin's duty to mitigate his buyout likely requires any potential employer to compensate the entire buyout in order to sign a contact at this early stage. So, I expect any contract he signs to exceed his buyout.
I might be the only one but my hope is that if his agent starts the conversation like that we simply state our starting and ending offer is 6 million for him and x million for his staff. That is our competitive offer for a fired coach that has a history of not winning the big games. If that is unacceptable, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
Well, I suppose we'll see if Virginia Tech agrees with that assessment.
Maximum reasonable money for tech is 5-6 million. For all the talk of the money increase most of it is theoretically "to be raised". In other words, there isn't actually any new money yet.
We can all debate the definition of reasonable in this instance, lol, however I believe VT is prepared to spend $8-$10M.
Theoretically. But that may include assistants and such.
Maybe we should wait and see what they actually do.
'Fraid so.
All these rumors and tweeter accounts posting like Franklin to VT is all but a done deal, meanwhile my VT possibility of good news PTSD kicking in
If you don't want to get hurt, don't believe anything until it's officially announced.
Taking everything with a grain of salt.....
Just had a pretty connected buddy text me that Franklin to VT is a done deal. It was between us and Arkansas, both offering $10M each and he chose us.
Man, this would be a great statement hire if true. Big dogging an SEC member for our #1 choice (well, at least my #1 choice)
10M a year for someone with an offset clause doesn't seem like a smart way to structure a contract for him. Seems like it would be best to give him an average ACC salary and beef up the spending around him. What does that 10M number pertain to? Just his yearly base salary?
Maybe an offset for the remaining years of his PSU buyout and a bump after? Otherwise it seems foolish to leave their money on the table
What if we pay him 6 and the he gets 4 in NIL?
That I don't know. Like I sad, grain of salt.
If another school offered $10mil then no way the offset clause will allow for anything less than that as that sets the bottom floor.
Could be another team playing that game to increase our costs.
More like a mountain of salt lol- so much salt even Pat Narduzzi says 'whoa-too much!'
I dont think there's a level of salt that Narddog can say too much
Is Arkansas the only SEC team we've beaten since Beamer left? Feels like an odd coincidence.
Is this your friend?
LOL! Nope but damn.....
Yeah, but I think VT is a markedly better option for a coach than Arkansas. I think every coach knows that Arkansas is a one contract job. Get your money for 3-5 years then get fired. You can't win there consistently and their fan base is delusional. VT has a much better and easier path to success.
Yeah gotta avoid getting overly excited. I remember when Derrick Nnadi committing to the hokies was all but a done deal. Same with Josh Sweat, Devyn Ford, the list goes on...
I am still 50/50 on wanting Franklin. Pry kind on contaminated that tree to me.
That being set, skuttlebut from the Athletic Department is that we tried to talk to Mullen and he turned us down. I really hope that is wrong.
That would make me so sad
Wouldn't be surprised if we can't get Mullen. Always thought he would be out of reach.
Could our next crouch be Brian Kelly Killed a Kid?
Not sure if play on words or typo but this is fitting.
Damn autocorrect
If we hire BK, I'm sending him to Jamaica on a scissor-lift.
I'll chip in.
Just saw an article posted on social media from Fightinggobbler.com about the "rumor".
Seems like it's at least a legitimate conversation.
its making the rounds on Tech Sideline too. (though its all probably the same source).
Incidentally, how does anyone use that site. I sometimes long for the internet of old, but that place reminds me that for all the enshittification, there have been some improvements.
Or it's a leak from an agent for negotiating purposes.
While I wouldn't be totally unhappy with Franklin as a hire, I have the utmost suspicion that this is his agent "leaking" a number.
i.e. to any SEC team, you're gonna have to be North of $10mil --that's where negotiations start.
While the ACC is an easier path to the CFP, I think Franklin ultimately understands that to have any real chance at winning the trophy, you have to be P2.
And the only way to break the "Big Game James" reputation at this point is to win the hardware. To a guy with a big ego and streak of pettiness, this seems like it would be the driving force here.
I tend to disagree. I've never before been a big Franklin fan, but I legitimately think he got a raw deal at PSU and that fanbase is ridiculous deluded and unappreciative of just how good and consistent he's been there for a long time. I also think he wants to keep his mid-Atlantic connections and proximity for recruiting, his fiercely loyal players/recruits and staff, and his family (one daughter is a student at PSU right now and I think the other about to go to college). Seems like he's very family-centric and wants to have that proximity from what I am gathering. I think Florida and LSU aren't even considering him because why would they want the guy Penn State just fired? (A lot of hubris at those schools).
I've really come around the last several weeks and have changed my outlook. I think Franklin and VT would be a near perfect fit for what both sides are looking for right now. If he can get the support financially he needs, he will recruit lights out in our footprint. Look out, ACC.
This ^^^
Between Vandy and PSU, Franklin won nine or more games in NINE of his fifteen seasons. Franklin is 128-60 between an SEC doormat (Vanderbilt) and a second tier Big 10 school. He has had 2 seasons with a losing record in 15 years of P2 coaching. His first year at Vanderbilt (6-7) and Covid season(4-5). Outside of schools that have the mindset that it's National Championship or pack your bags, he has been a top tier coach. He had Penn State in the Semifinals last season. As for why we would hire him? Our football program has been broken for ten years. We have steadily fell behind in how our organization is structured and have allowed the old school "that's how we have always done it" cronies to have too much influence on our program. Franklin won't put up with that. Look at what he did at Vanderbilt. He took a team that had consistently had losing records for about 20 years and by year two had them at 9-4 in back to back seasons against the best conference in football.
It wasnt that he wasnt good at PSU, it was PSU deluded themselves into thinking they should be in the National Championship every year. PSU doesn't spend nearly as much on NIL as four of their BIG 10 peers do. Ohio State, Michigan, Oregon and Nebraska far overpay over what PSU has been. UCLA and USC are also paying more but it's close. That puts PSU 7th in the Big10 in NIL spending but Franklin regularly had them top 4 in terms of results.
False - Most folks in the NIL world saying that, in 2025, PSU was in the same ballpark as those schools (and paying better than Michigan). That's why Franklin got fired. Because he asked for more and more and more and got it all, then still lost.
2025
Oregon collective was estimated to be $10.3M and that matched by Phil Knight
Ohio State was estimated to be at $20.2M
Michigan was thought to be at $16.3M in 2025
USC was estimated at $13.9M
Penn State was estimated to be at $13.7M
Indiana was estimated at $13.6M
Can't find the UCLA estimate I had seen earlier.
I think those numbers were for the previous season. For the current season, Penn State said they intended to spend over $16m of the 20.5m rev share with football (in April) and had collective money on top that.
The numbers above are only NIL. Do not include the revenue shares. Almost all the programs are committing around $15-$17M of revenue share to football.
That would put Oregon and OSU at ~$35m for a football roster... that is not a number I have seen anywhere or heard from anyone
I think that is pretty accurate based on what I've seen over the course of the season.
Even UVA got their 7-1 season due to a single-donor $10M NIL contribution (putting them over $25M), plus whatever other donors gave.
Not sure those types of NIL payments are "allowed" for 2026, so it will be interesting to see how it all plays out and if 2025 is repeatable for teams like UVA.
I'm guessing most schools put their NIL deals in place before the 1 July start date of the new requirements that all deals go through the clearinghouse. And only deals using the revenue sharing dollars are what anyone is seeing in the clearinghouse. So I view this year as a one-year free give away year. No facts to back this up.
Are the revenue sharing deals even required to be in the clearinghouse? I thought the clearinghouse was only handling external NIL agreements.
Good question that I don't know the answer to.
Texas is reported to have between $35-$40M in NIL above their Revenue Share. Texas Tech reportedly paid out $28M in NIL above Revenue Share.
I think this is right. They want a guy who they think can beat Alabama and Georgia. And if Franklin couldnt beat OSU/Michigan, there's not a lot of confidence he'd beat the top SEC teams. The same probably goes for Auburn if they fire Hugh Freeze.
But if one of those schools nabs a Kiffin or Drinkwitz, I think Ole Miss or MIzzou would probably gladly take Franklin. And my gut feeling is that he would prefer one of those jobs in the P2.
Maybe its just the KooI-Aid I've been drinking for decades, but if his goal is a natty, VT lines up super well. In his existing footprint for recruiting, very easy pathway. Can't say the same about Ole Miss or Mizzou.
Idk - I think you could make an argument that making the playoff at VT is easier. Which gets you a seat at the table to try to win a natty.
But given the (still growing) resource gap between the conferences, I think winning one at VT will be very very very hard. I wouldn't bet on him to win one at either, but I think the odds of him taking an Ole Miss as like a 7 seed and catching a few breaks seems more likely than us winning one.
Was at WVU with the entire family. We threw a tsilagate at our Airbnb TH near the stadium for my daughter's roommates and their families. Had a parent Penn State fan there. He was happy to see Franklin go, like "good fucking riddance" level happy.
I tried to have a conversation with him about Franklin. I couldn't finish a single sentence. He would cut me off and then trash Franklin. On this topic he was insufferable and unapproachable. Outside of that, he was a pretty cool dude, but I felt he was delusional about Franklin.
I have no doubts about Franklin's ability to improve VT'S current standing. I think PSU was dumb to fire him and 5 years from now will probably be in a worse position than when he left.
But going off of what Franklin has said publicly, he expects to win a Championship.
Maybe in private, that's not what he expresses but no one here is privy to those conversations.
VT just simply isn't in a place or a conference to compete for Championships. Not in the current CFB landscape.
If that's truly what Franklin wants, he is going to the P2. Florida clearly has Kiffin as plans A, B, and C, but Franklin is not off the table in G'ville from those here with "sauces."
This is my wholly uninformed, un-sourced guess as well. This is the kind of stuff that Sexton is apparently very good at and we're a nice piece of public leverage for private negotiations.
We caught lightning in a bottle to get to the champ game in the old world of CFB. That world is gone and a plucky school in SWVA isn't built to play in the new one.
Can you win at UF maybe, but it's a gauntlet. Same with LSU but I would say more likely to win one there. Arkansas seems like a no.
In the last 4.5 seasons we have played 2 top 10 teams and might play 1 more in Miami. Franklin can come to the ACC and dominate. The ACC title game only had 1 top 10 team in it last year. It is possible to win the ACC with 0 top 10 wins. Franklin could get into the CFB and potentially get a bye and then only have 2-3 top 10 teams to beat to get a title.
The path to the playoffs is easier at VT and winning at VT means he might put himself in a position for a job that is much easier to win a title at like Bama or UGA or Oregon or Texas.
Exactly. Everyone says you have to be at a P2 school to win a national championship. But it's the same handful of schools who have been winning it. We have to follow the Clemson and FSU model. You can absolutely have an easier path to the playoffs in the ACC if you recruit at an extremely high level and have the resources. And I think we could have that with Franklin.
Honestly winning a title now requires more luck than any time in the past. There is no Tua coming off the bench to save Bama's season any more. Tua would have transfered. Also you just have to be good at the right time. Oregon beat every team they played last year, but they weren't champions. If I wanted to win a championship I'd go to what ever school that would get me the Phoenix Suns medical staff, because being healthy is what's going to win. OSU is already playing that game and trying to rest players and slow down the pace to have less wear and tear.
Agree...to an extent...the path to winning the ACC is definitely easier than the SEC or B1G.
But a few things to consider....
-The SEC and B1G are pushing for 4 auto-bids each. Are the odds of that vs. winning the ACC better? More to the point...who is getting selected...a 9-3 LSU/UF or a 10-2 VT???...I think we both know that answer.
-And again...Franklin has said he wants to win a Championship. Even if he can get VT into the CFP can we be better than SMU in '24?? They never for a second looked competitive.
For a guy who is under fire for not being able to win big games does just qualifying for the CFP and then losing handily really prove anything??
Yeah, Franklin knows the P2 are trying to squeeze everyone out. In a pretty predatory manner. Chances are that our path gets narrower in the years ahead rather than wider.
It proves he can build the foundation and be good enough to get to the CFP.
The semifinals of the CFP. And they probably should've been in the CFP in 2016(?)
If we've learned anything from our recent coaching searches nothing is done till it's done. I'd give Franklin 20% chance based on history.
I can see pros and cons from both Franklin's POV and our position on him.
Franklin's POV
Cons
- hard to win a natty at VT
- Sure Pry isn't singing out praises
- Step down from PSU in terms of job prestige vs SEC or B10
Pros
- Can with 8 games and be a hero
- Get paid
- Good recruiting and fan base
- Leverage over admin - "I'll come here but I want to do it my way" vs LSU where boosters are up your ass.
- Can win in ACC
- Same recruiting footprint
VT POV
Cons
- He had everything at PSU but couldn't win the big ones
- Not a great field marshal/head ball coach
- Seems kinda weird and petty at times
- Never really figured out the QB position, which seems really important if you want @ a school like VT (see our history or Vandy w/ Pavia)
Pros
- Proven at Vandy he could win with less...sort of counters the PSU underachieving
- Kids love him and he can recruit
- Sure he'll make us relevant in ACC
- Wins the presser hype game for Whit
I still don't get the QB knock on him.
This is what Google has on his QBs
As of the end of the 2024 college football season, quarterbacks under head coach James Franklin have thrown for over 35,000 passing yards in his tenure at Penn State. This figure is an aggregate of the yards thrown by several quarterbacks, including the top two passers in program history: Sean Clifford and Trace McSorley.
Key quarterbacks and their passing yards under Franklin at Penn State:
Sean Clifford: 10,661 yards (Penn State career record)
Trace McSorley: 9,899 yards (second all-time in program history)
Christian Hackenberg: 8,457 yards (part of his career was under Franklin when he arrived in 2014, though he started earlier)
Drew Allar: Approximately 6,928 yards and counting as of September 2025
Other QBs: Various other quarterbacks contributed smaller amounts of passing yards over the years.
35,000 yards in 12 seasons is 2,916 yards per season. That is pretty solid for a college QB. Thats a 243 ypg average on a 12 game schedule. They have 270 passing touchdowns. Thats 22.5 Touchdowns per season.
Are they earth shattering numbers? No. Are they consistently good/great? Yes.
Skipping the individual stats, the 243 ypg average and 22.5 passing TDs per season are good numbers over a long time period. Confident that VT passing stats are probably close to bottom 10% across the P4/P5 in this same timeframe. Memorable QBs, if any, not for their passing skills.
Our best per game while Franklin was at PSU was Jerod Evans at 253 ypg. After that, Josh Jackson at 222 ypg. We have had 10 "Primary" QBs since 2014 as well.
During Tyrod's 2010 ACC POY season, he threw for 196 yards a game and 24 touchdowns. He was amazing that year.
We'd be ecstatic if that was our average QB production.
Good data and counter point. My extended family went to PSU so I've followed them loosely. Stats are solid but I think PSU fans would argue some of those QB's underachieved and couldn't deliver in the big moments. But yeah data alone we'd be stoked with those results and maybe this is a matter of perspective. They think their QB's were average compared to OSU. We'd die for any of those guys.
Franklins QBs were good but not great. None of them were bad, but none could really elevate the team to the next level, which is what you need to beat Ohio State/Michigan and win a national championship.
Didn't think it warranted its own thread but who wants to get involved with LSU with the Gov this much involved. Yikes.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/46773515/gov-jeff-landry-critical-ad-scott-woodward-amid-lsu-shakeup
Just saw that too....but as was pointed out elsewhere, Woodward is now responsible for the two largest buyouts in college football.
And now being reported Woodward and LSU parting ways
I love it. The more dysfunctional the bigger jobs are, the better off we'll be.
The Gov is making him a dead AD walking if he has his way.
Is this tweeter in the know, or just some random dude?
His X bio says he's a "ball knower." Must be legit lol.
Not sure if insider or just throwing stuff against the wall, but I'm feeling cautiously optimistic at this point. Think there's a lot of mutual interest and this is mostly just classic last minute agent work trying to see what else he can get for his client. If this drags on for a week or more though with nothing official, then I'll get worried.
It's the same twitter account that was shared earlier in the thread that mentioned that both us and Arkansas had offered 10M and that he chose us.
I've seen Monday tossed out around on different accounts. I'm with you the longer it plays out, the less I like our odds. Maybe we'll wake up to good news (if you're in the pro-Franklin camp) after the weekend
Even if we had a deal locked with him do you think we'd announce mid-season? I may be inclined to keep it quiet till after our last game then announce as to not cause a distraction to the players and current coaches.
Yes, announce ASAP. We are a joke right now and he would immediately change how the college football world views us. We would finally have a buzz around the program, money would start flowing, and recruits and transfers taking notice. We can't afford to waste that opportunity to build momentum.
I'm not sure the "we are a joke bit" is as bad as we think, but completely agree on momentum. Get players excited for coming here next year, project stability and looking to the future and get Franklin to be a vocal cheerleader for the current team.
If we were talking about a coach that still had current commitments elsewhere, I'd be fine with delaying, but being the first out the gate with a splash hire is an opportunity we should not waste.
Yeah you're right.....
Yeah, if successful, you announce this as soon as you can, as loudly as you can, as often as you can.
No. You announce that deal IMMEDIATELY and start trying to recruit, recruit, recruit.
The players on the current team who are good need retaining.
The players on the current team who are not good need to find their way to the portal.
And the current season is a distant, and I mean DISTANT after thought.
The only thing that matters for this upcoming season is home game ticket revenue and the like.
Interesting thought. If we hired Franklin tomorrow, does he coach the next game and draw a salary for this year? Unless we are paying him to coach, I wouldn't expect him to recruit.
this is a good thought -
that said, if I were hired for a job and hadn't technically started but I wanted to get ahead of the curve and start getting pieces in place to help me be successful, I'd do it off the clock. We might not be paying him (or even requiring him) to recruit but he might want to anyway. If he wants to use this opportunity to show PSU they made a mistake (everything I've heard about him is that he's petty and will likely want to stick it to PSU some how) it's going to be in his interest to get out ahead of things to increase his odds at success.
His pay would start as of the effective day of his contract. I imagine he would want to get a jump start on recruiting.
And only two home games left including this weekend. And Miami is already a sellout and people will likely actually go if only to watch Miami and cause of the intense dislike of Miami
There was a good crowd for the last game and I expect a good crowd on Saturday.
Totally agree; UVA is 7-1 and draws the same or sometimes less fans than a 3-5 Hokie team
For the record he seems to be a Penn St guy so the calls aren't coming from inside this house.
He also mentioned early yesterday that Penn State fans not wanting Rhule would get their wish. Then late yesterday or early this morning it was announced Rhule has signed an extension with Nebraska. So it's possible this person in PSU circles has good info.
Going to be comical when PSU gets forced to hire a G5 coach because all their targets get extensions or have better job prospects in the SEC.
That karma, she'll get after ya!
The grass is certainly not always greener.
In a stunning move, Penn State hires Franklin back to avoid having to pay his offset and realizing they aren't going to get a better coach..
What's Skip Holtz up to these days?
Was/Is head coach of the Birmingham Stallions in the UFL. I think Birmingham is one of the teams slated to either move or cease to exist even though they have been one of the better teams record wise in the UFL.
Hell, where is LOU Holtz these days...?
Doing videos on the current state of our government.
The unintelligible talking about the unintelligent. brilliant!
Opinion Time! VT should not copy the status quo that is driving college football. It simply will not work to get VT to the top, ever. What got VT to this point was innovation, in football! Beamer revolutionized special teams and took advantage of the state. Since then blue blood teams caught up, adjusted, and accelerated away. Now VT thinks they can just go out and pay for a big name in coaching. It's not going to work. The expectations are too high and there will be funding deficits all over the place. Athletes don't play for a school or coach anymore. They play for money, period. So, as alternative and innovative plan simply don't do that. One option. Take your pot. Let's call it 30m. Step 1) Hire Sam Rogers. 500k Step 2) Let Sam hire the top coordinators in the game. 5M Step 3) There are no recruiters. Just staff that can identify and pay for the best players. 2M. Step 4) The balance, 22.5M goes to buying the best possible players. Top money for QBs and O and D line and on and on. Step 5) write creative contracts that incentivize players performance. That's it. It will work until everyone catches on/ups payments. At least it enables VT to sneak in and poach top talent for a few years until the next innovation.
I went through a similar exercise, but how does Sam get "top coordinators in the game" to buy into this, over, say, a top of the line head coach who would give them similar pay?
And then how do we know Sam can perform the functions that a top - tier college football coach can perform? Recruiting, managing personnel, game coaching decisions? And would he do as well as someone who had already been exposed to these functions at a different P4 program? And then, if Sam could do all this, wouldn't he want to get paid top money to do it?
In the end, all the logic goes circular and reverts to the mean, and I'm back to the conclusion that you have to pay to play, and experience counts. After all, isn't this the experiment that we just did with Pry, except we paid him? We just didn't pay top dollar for coordinators.
I was trying to craft a way to say what you just said.
To go back to his original point tho, it's not wrong. Innovation will win the day in the same way Frank made a 3rd team relevant and succeeded, the I formation was an innovation in offenses that ruled the game for a long time.
I'm just not sold that we can skimp on the head coach and go to top tier coordinators to get the job done.
I like the way the 2 of you are thinking, let's call this brainstorming and present lots of ideas, good and farfetched, and see what ideas we can generate. Something might be useful.
TLDR: Good brainstorming will win the idea war.
I have a bigger question, with a coaching staff that small how do we scout our opponents, how do we self scout? Playing the best players doesn't get you a win if you opponents know what your doing. There are 10 coaches that are allowed to recruit and that's who we normally talk about for coaching, but there are another 10+ coaches doing real needed work every day for us right now. Do we have enough coaches so that during the games determine tendencies and make adjustments? Everyone else has these coaches. How do we get around not having them ?
You'd still need the rest of the organization. That's understood, I think.
The only part we're proposing cutting in this scenario is the one figurehead you have to pay $10 million a year for, with a buyout clause for after they've left.
If the HC is just a figure head then why even have one?
Exactly.
How does it break out? $7 million for the figurehead, and $3 million for the coach? Then just spend the $3 million for the coach? We just need to break the code. But we tried just paying for the coach part, and I felt like we overpaid.
So after much contemplation, I think we're back to having to pay a lot for a coach.
What coach comes to VT when they can make more just about anywhere else. Mullen is G5 and makes $3.5. If they are successful then they will be offered way more to leave. Basically you're not hiring a coach with FBS experience and as soon as they get it they will leave, either for more money or fired.
This is like saying Google or Amazon should ditch the CEO and hire someone like me for 5% of the pay package. I mean, I'm known for hiring smart people to lead my divisions and building a strong culture on my teams, and heck, I'll settle for that comp package. Sign me up!
PS - I suggest you sell the stock before I'm officially named.
...and buy back in a day or two later and wait for your glorious performance to get me all the sheckels.
I think you're kinda of romanticizing the frank beamer formula for success:
So applying that to the future.
I think your proposal is misguided:
To your point about moneyball, everyone eventually learned the scouting methodology the A's used AND realized that methodology alone isn't enough to win the World Series. It's great over a 162 sample size to get you to the playoffs but once the playoffs start and each game means more it goes out the window. I haven't read the book but the movie makes a point to show the Red Sox won using the methodology and spending money on the best players that fit the methodology instead of replacement players in the aggregate.
So i think VTbandit oversimplified things a bit, but i have been going back and forth in my own head for a while on this. Especially as the discussion around Franklin potentially leveraging options for a salary at $10M+. I do believe who the head coach is matters, as they have to (1) generate enough buzz and interest to raise the dollars; (2) still recruit the players for both the portal and high school; (3) get quality assistants to want to be on his staff; and (4) generally run the program in a professional manner where players, coaches, admins, other university employees, and fans respect the position and the authority.
In addition though, I don't think any one coach is going to get you to the promise land in the world of NIL unless you can raise the money. You raise the money, you can build a roster to win as long as you have some semblance of football knowledge. Tony Elliott is doing it at UVA right now, and quite frankly, he's as much a shit coach as Pry turned out to be. Joey Maguire is doing it at Texas Tech. Sitake does it with LDS money at BYU (so is their bball coach btw, my goodness that roster). And i'm sure there are several other instances of non-blue bloods who are relevant in the football picture because of NIL (Ole Miss, Indiana, etc). And yes, i get it that some are underperforming with big NIL budgets (i'm looking at you LSU and Florida), but i do think the new world order is unfortunately going to be driven by which program can best buy their roster.
Now that doesn't mean you have to spend the most, it just means you have to have a competitive budget and then be smart enough to know how to build a team with it. That's going to require a good staff, a good GM, a good fundraising arm, and a supportive culture throughout the university. So in my opinion, you find a program builder that knows how to win and has proven it throughout their career. That could certainly be James Franklin, as i have stated previously.
Or, if things don't work out with Franklin because of fit or finances, i'm coming more and more around to just hiring a coach who has shown he can win no matter where he's at, regardless of the level, while also seeming to be good fits for Tech and attainable. The name that I keep coming back to is Bob Chesney. Won at all four levels (Regina-D3, Assumption-D2, Holy Cross-FCS, JMU-G5), and not always in a tailor made situation. I think that level of success is what your looking for.
While i don't think it bothers most, i do think some of the pushback that comes on Chesney is JMU related, just like there are folks that say LSU won't hire Sumrall because he's Tulane's coach. Maybe we swap, as i think Sumrall falls in the same category as Chesney (won at both Troy and Tulane), and i would have listed him if i thought he was attainable. But i think i'd prefer Chesney to Sumrall if both were available because Chesney has proven it at four stops compared to two, and for 16 seasons (127-51) compared to 4 (38-11).
TLDR, i think if i were in charge of this search, i would be doing my due diligence on Chesney's ability to raise money and spend it wisely, because i think he has proven he can manage a program. I would also get feedback from all the big donors and NIL managers, or however NIL is going to work in the future and see if that is a hire they are ready to get financially behind from a warchest standpoint. And if it checks out, i think he's the alternative to Franklin, and i wouldn't argue with you if you said he should be the target over Franklin.
Oh, I feel the opposite. If everything else about Chesney is the same, but he's at Georgia Southern instead of JMU, he gets a fraction of the interest from VT.
At the end of the day, the VT admin wants/needs a coach who can lead them back to relevancy. There's no evidence that Chesney can do that.
Yeah, hard disagree on your first point. If he had the same results there as he has had at JMU there's no difference. If Ga Southern is beating up on the Sun Belt the last two years like JMU, it's the same solid 16 year resume over four divisions of college football. They are the same conference, playing the same teams. We were big on Napier/Louisiana last time around. Same conference, same schedules. We're discussing Huff/Marshall and Southern Miss. Same conference, same schedules. Helton/Western Kentucky, similar conference, similar schedule. Sumrall at Tulane I'll grant is a better conference and schedule.
I absolutely agree with your second point though, but there are arguments that none of the coaches have evidence of that outside of Franklin, at least for me. Could Mullen do it, sure. Is his time at Miss St evidence of that. Not for me. Ten years ago is a different era than today. And being off the sidelines for a few years and having that last gig fall apart like it did, I don't think that's really moving the PR needle. Good move? I'd argue it could be, but real evidence it's going to work, nah, i'm just as worried about him as any of the others. Especially when it comes to the portal game and the new normal for roster building. Is that something he can consistently do at a VT? One season at UNLV where the combined record of the teams he has beaten is 17-34, with Miami (OH) the only one with a winning record at 5-4 doesn't tell us a whole lot.
Could Diaz do it, sure. But he underperformed at Miami, and his wins at Duke are against all under 500 ACC teams and Elon, so there is literally nothing but coordinator track record to point to. And there's no real evidence that Campbell, Shane, or Fleck make Tech relevant either because as good a job as they are doing or have done at Iowa St, SC or Minnesota, none are challengers for conference championships or playing in anything more than December bowl games with 7-6 or 8-5 records most years. That's the only P4 coaches i've heard about, and none of them scream surefire success at VT to me.
All other candidates i've heard are G5 candidates like Chesney.
That's not saying that I wouldn't be happy with any of these guys (but please no Shane as it just seems like it wouldn't end well), i'm just saying there's only a handful of coaches who really have an argument that there is evidence they can make us relevant, and outside of Franklin, i think all are currently in jobs that are considered above VT, and if they leave those, they aren't coming to VT. I could certainly be missing someone though.
But outside of all that, as i was saying in my previous post, i think the calculus here is to get a proven winner and program builder that can raise money, because i think college football is more about buying a roster than the basic recruiting a roster of the past. As a fan, i don't know much about the second part, but i can see a coach's resume as far as wins and losses.
At the end of the day though, I'm just guessing like the rest of you, while the committee is making a giant bet. Fingers crossed they make the right one!
Those guys ALL:
Chesney has none of those things. And to be fair, Helton is sorta weak on them as well. But he's gotten no traction from anyone other than me in this coaching search lol.
Chesney could be a great coach. A lot of smart people are high on him. Well see.
Fair points. Hard to know what translates better. Big time P2/P4 experience on staff. Or consistently successful head coaching experience at multiple locations and levels.
JMU also has a really good infrastructure in place too, so that helps, but Cignetti did pilfer the best parts of that roster when he left for Indiana.
Most Diaz criticisms are fair, but everyone has underperformed at Miami since Larry Coker was fired. Through 36 games, Diaz had an identical record to Cristobal: 21-15. Currently, Diaz has a better win percentage at Miami than Cristobal, Al Golden, and Randy Shannon. He has the second highest ACC winning percentage behind Richt (not counting interims). Diaz wasn't great, but he's one of the better coaches Miami has had in the past 20 years and did so without the resources that Cristobal is getting. He wasn't fired for poor performance, he was fired because Cristobal's buddies had crypto money.
Agree with everything here except:
It was Miami Hospital's COVID profits, not crypto money, that paid for Cristobal to come to Miami. Crypto is paying their NIL though.
Nothing like Miami for profiting on misery and hopelessness.
An interesting article, not so much on Heupel, but on the path of HCs and expectations in current P2 football.
Josh-heupel-hot-seat-tennessee-football-coach-penn-state-candidates
Bold take: If Franklin keeps waiting around, I say VT makes the Franklin offer to Heupel to jump ship.
I for one would love a Heupel here, I can finally meet him and give him the correct spelling of our last name.
This changes everything. All this time you've been "Hugh pleck" in my head.
We also pronounce it slightly differently. He keeps the German pronunciation where it's "high-pul" for whatever reason my family is "hue-pul" so your head was right
Almost like Mott the Hoople?
Don't you mean "Kevin"?
Unironically, yes
hate to be that guy but..if he pronounces it the German way doesn't that technically make him right and you wrong?
He lives not in Germany.
....but it's a German name
Now if his name was Wilson but pronounced the German way (idk, Vil-son, or something) then he'd be wrong. Because Wilson is not a German name
Here, in the United States, it's an American name.
I don't hear you pronounce "Egbert" in the Danish way.
I didn't call his pronunciation wrong just his spelling. Though typically Americanized German names are pronounced with the vowels switched and silenced. Hoepker is common German last name that's pronounced hepker. I'm not an expert in this field though just things I've noticed throughout my life
I believe the German spelling is Heupel......
Leg to offset the silly downvotes you're catching on this non issue
thanks bro
back atchya
Well, in Elkton the surname Merica is pronounced Murky, so make of that what you will
I don't even read people's usernames; I just look at their prof pics.
My new profile pic:
I would take Heupel in a heartbeat. He built them back to a good program, runs a fun offense, and it apparently not an asshole.
what's ralph friedgen up to these days
Hanging out with Charlies Weis? I think Notre Dame is still paying him not to coach there anymore.
Sitting around his lakehouse at Lake Oconee (aka Lake Football Coaches)
Something like 80 coaches have houses around that Lake, including both Beamers.
Friedgen last had a coaching role in 2015 at Rutgers. He was on the ballot this year for the College Football Hall of Fame.
Retired. He's 78 right now.
Ralph Friedgen lived next door to my parents back when they lived on Lake Oconee in Water's Edge, the same subdivision as Frank Beamer and George O'Leary. I remember chatting with him once, back in the pre-ACC days. He was cleaning off his grill, and we were chatting on grilling, and I mentioned that at a TSL spring game tailgate, there was a full pig on a big smoker grill, and somebody stuck a nametag with "Al Groh" on it. He responded, "I'd hate to see how y'all would treat a big guy like me." I responded without thinking, "Oh, no, sir, we don't play you."
Hope you were never around when Ralph did a cannonball off the dock!! Tsunami warming!
Good for him for making it to 78! Average US man lifespan is75 years and he did not have the look of a man with average health. Average US woman lifespan is 81.
(These are things I think about with my parents reaching the average lifespan in the US, and trying to make sure I do what I can to enjoy our last 2, 10, 20, or who knows years together on this earth.)
I understand where you are coming from and applaud your perspective.
My Dad has passed and Mom is 81. I am blessed with 6 weeks of vacation so for the last 5 years I have been using a week in the spring and one in the fall (next week actually) to travel down into Virginia to spend with Mom.
Same - my Dad is turning 81 this month, Mom just turned 77. Definitely trying to visit as much as possible- and I am still trying to get them to move down here to the OBX, but I think the housing price explosion a couple years ago has taken away that possibility
Good for you! Lost my dad in 2004 at age 75(1 month after their 50th anniversary) and mom in 2011 at age 82(then lost both brothers in 2012 at ages 55 and 56 3 months apart). Missed a lot of the last years of my dad's life for various reasons and regret it to this day. Determined to not have it happen again with mom and didn't. Wrote a short article/passage about it a bout two weeks after mom passed. If anyone would like to read it, send me your email and I'll send it to you. Long story short-cherish your parents while you have them-I lost mine when I was 39 and 46 years old. Would give anything to still have them around!
Lost dad at 79 and Mom just turned 85 two weeks ago. I moved her to Blacksburg during COVID so she wouldn't be 660 miles away anymore. Now she lives next door (a little more than 1/4 mile as the crow flies).
Should we start a pool for when we think a coach will be announced?
I'm going with Dec 10th. (spoiler, it won't be Franklin)
I'll drop a ten spot on Nov. 30th
We announce Franklin the day after we beat UVA
I'm claiming Nov 29. A win over the hoos and a new coach = happy birthday to me
Deja vu from Fuente?