For those who forget...
- September 26, 2022 - GT HC Geoff Collins and AD Todd Stansbury are both fired
- October 14th, 2022 - New AD J Batt is hired
- November 29th, 2022 - Interim coach Brent Key is hired full time
For those who aren't married to Jackets/don't live in ATL, here's a summary of GT's accomplishments since then:
- Key has gone 20-16 with 4 wins over ranked teams (despite playing Clemson and UGA annually, ND twice, Miami a few times, etc)
- The have landed the program's first ever 5-star recruit (alledgedly paying him $800k)
- They have a fun offense to watch
- They are a 'favorite' to make the ACC title game this year
- They are positioned to be in the top third of ACC revenue distribution
Possibly most relevant to our situation: Batt raised donations pretty significantly in his 2 fiscal years at GT (source: Knight Commission):
Finally... it's worth noting the similarities between the Geoff Collins hire and the Brent Pry hire. Both were guys who cut their teeth at GT/VT (respectively), both talked a lot about recruiting and marketing the program, and both seemed to lack substance.
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Comments
I'm okay with this timeline. Fire Pry and Babcock, make Price the interim coach again, hire a damn good AD (with a vision for revamping the Hokie Club and increasing donations), and figure out the head coach position (and throw money at coordinators) by the 4th quarter of the UVA game. We know Price won't lose to the Hoos.
How many coaches can say that they have on their resume "Interim Head Coach" at the same school TWO TIMES?!?
Atleast 1, the guy from Florida state, odell hagans or sowmthing like that
you want to turn around our football program like GT?
Plaid
first result when I googled "you can do that Georgia Tech GIF"
right back to TKP
Timing and plan like this is definitely plausible to mimic at VT. The one benefit GT has though is from a social life stand point I think downtown ATL is pretty good sell for young recruits with lots of new disposable income.
Apparently the lemon pepper wings at this joint are where its at....
This place is unironically famous for its great wings.
That place is third on the list to Johnny's Hideaway, for exceptional cougar hunting, and Claremont Lounge, where strippers go to die and cheap, ice cold cans of Budweiser.
Got married right above claremont lounge. That place was fucking awesome until Lady Gaga told everyone about it on a late night show
Please tell me your reception was at Claremont Lounge
No...Claremont rooftop, then my in laws backyard (Covid wedding). Then we spent the night at the Claremont hotel.
I mean, here is one thing to keep in mind....GT had a Head Coaching candidate already On-Staff in Brent Key. Do we have anyone On-Staff that we see is a viable Head Coach candidate?----maybe Price?....Mines can recruit.....no one else would I be the least bit interested in.
I don't always agree with Chris Coleman's takes but I thought he was dead-on on the Post-Vandy TSL. Whit should have gotten his walking paper in July.
Now we are in a position where we almost have to try and find a package deal ala Tennessee in order to have any sort of organized and aligned Athletic Department and Football Staff together by December. You absolutely cannot go into Signing Day without that and then you have a short turnaround to the Transfer Portal. You can be assured that in order to even field a team in 2026, VT is going to have to hit the Portal HARD. I forsee a heavy exodus this offseason.
GT also has a couple of huge advantages:
-they are located in a massive metro area with large corporations and potential sponsors abound
- They are in the midst of Fertile recruiting ground, certainly one of the top in the country
- they have several Mega-Donors, which VT unfortunately does not
If this season is any indication, I think this is going to be true for most teams every season until there is some kind of limitation on free agency in CFB (collective bargaining or something else)
I don't think they knew he was an HC Candidate
GT Athletics only pulled $12.4m in donations in 2021. Even in the most recent FY that we have numbers for, VT is pulling more in.
Meh... I believe nebraska has the largest multi-media licensing deal of any public, and they are not in a metro area. I don't think this plays.
But they are competing with even more folks than we are.
All points agreed with except Nebraska. They're very much like Miami in the fact that there are a lot (read everyone in the region that didn't go there) of non-alumni fans of Nebraska regionally they're definitely a licensing anomaly. Lincoln also isn't exactly small, its certainly not Atlanta but Lincoln and Omaha right down the road combine for an easy 1M in population which would make it significantly bigger than all of SWVA.
He was a successful and well-liked position coach with experience at the top Program at that time in College Football and as an Assistant Head Coach at UCF. Compare that to the current Staff at VT.....anyone similar??? No, didn't think so.
Sure....there are exceptions to any rule. But would you suggest it is easier to find corporate sponsors to buy ads, pay for suites, make corporate donations in SWVA or Atlanta...???? Beyond Advance Auto (who is moving a large part of their operation to N.C.) and Carilion what else is there...
They are competing with the same folks that we are---and doing so more effectively. Despite the now overwhelming reliance on NIL for Recruiting purposes, there still is a draw to some kids to stay close to home or at least in a similar setting. It also eases Recruiting budgets not having to travel nearly as far to scout do home visits, ect.
How often is it that VT signs kids anywhere in a 1 hour radius from Blacksburg? There's the occasional kid from high school in Roanoke, but other than that it's really limited. And how often are those guys star players? The last I can think of is David Wilson.
I agree that VT can learn some things from how GT has seemingly revived some life in their Program. I just think it is a very short-sighted oversimplification to compare the two as if the conditions are so similar between the two Institutions.
Where does one find a coach fully dipped in dork magic? We used to have that... and players too.
Honestly what's Sam Rogers up to these days? He'd at least be able to teach certain players how to not quit when you're down three with a whole quarter left
He's the head coach at Hanover High School. Perhaps he can coach his other alma mater next year.
Didn't the AD and Asst AD just leave GT to go to Michigan State?
Is the replacement going to be able to maintain things?
Yes, J Batt's salary was doubled.
Idk if they'll be able to continue down the same path, but I think it's quite obvious that Batt rapidly improved the AD in just 3 years
I dont know or care because maintaining status quo as 2nd worst P4 program isn't something I want to do.
this is exactly the thing for me. We need to clean house. Is it risky? Of course. Is it guaranteed to make us better? Absolutely not. But you know what? I KNOW we're not getting better with our current staff/administration. Thinking we will magically improve without making substantial changes is insane. I'd rather take the risk and die trying than sit and die on the vine out of fear of failure.
One thing that doesn't show up in this is that GT has a very urban campus while VT absolutely does not. There is a lot in this for the new generation and no matter what we do, this will not change for us.
What does that have to do with convincing alumni to donate more?
I'm referencing brining in new people after clearing house, convincing 5 star recruits to attend their school, and building a team of late teens and early 20-somethings to play for them. Location and what's around plays a role in that. I keep hearing about missing on recruits etc...but the proximity of VT to anywhere yet alone somewhere plays a role in that as well. It's not the end-all be-all, or even 50% of it, but it's a chunk. Some kids won't mind, but the 5-star kids that want lambos and rovers with bling on their wrist aren't going to chose Blacksburg as a stop on the train to the NFL. Not enough eyeballs, adoration, or look-at-me opportunities. So we will continue to end up with the kids that are happy with an Accord or Ram truck.
I'm not going to say location doesn't matter. That would be ridiculous.
But also, GT got a 5-star OL to sign based on (a) $800k/year NIL deal and (b) a former OL as headcoach who pitched him on (1) development/NFL readiness and (2) a vision to build a team around an offensive line. Does he sign if GT is not located in Atlanta? I don't know. But this was a recruit that GT has never landed before, despite being located in Atlanta for 2ish centuries?
VT can never offer a recruit an Atlanta experience, but with the correctly leadership we can put together attractive vision for a team/player, and an attractive comp package to go with it.
Tough to say about the location because that $800k wasn't "readily" available previously. (Let's be honest, even in the brown paper bag days, OL guys weren't getting that kind of scratch...) I hear you. I do. And understand that for a LONG time they never landed one of those before...but it's a brave new world.
And I don't think Atlanta was THE straw that sent it over the top...but ATL is worth a brick to our straw in that portion of the game. There's ease of his family to get to games, proximity, and the new generation factor that seems to be gravitating back towards urban centers, in general.
To compare apples to pears, we do have Siefkes on staff, and JC Price who played in the league. Our pitch to the kids has to be "we have experience in the league and know what it takes to get you there...." as well. We just don't have the deep bag. (and, the location.) My point is if VT offered that kid $800k, where would have chose to go if the money was the same? That removes some of the factors, then the other lower tier boxes start getting inspected.
But what about the next kid.
Hypothetical scenario where JC Price is our Brent Key and we have $800k, and JC says I want to build a team around the DL, and we go and get a top 5 HS DL. None of those kids want to live in Blacksburg?
I don't have any data on this. I love cities. My wife and settled down and are raising a family in the middle of Atlanta (literally, we live 4 Marta east of the Mercedez Benz stadium). And I still loved Blacksburg, and chose it over college park (I know... they're campus is waayyy uglier and way more suburban than GT's but still)
And I know - I'm not an 18 year old recruit. I don't think location is an insurmountable obstacle for most recruits. That's all I'm saying.
And if we get into the SEC one day, it's a complete non-issue. You can't tell me anyone would prefer Oxford over Blacksburg, all else equal.
Oh I agree. But it's right spot for the right kid. I passed on going to UMD because it was/is too urban. I know my kids who are early 20's, and "kids" that have just left our company to go back towards urban centers; leaving the rural beachy life behind.
We're bantering, and it comes down to some kids are cut out for the city, and some aren't. Some love Blacksburg and the NRV (see Brewer!!!!) but it's not for everyone. VT isn't in the race for all recruits, even if we had the bag and the coaching and the wins and the trophies. Sadly, we're lacking bigly in a cadre of categories.
...and thank you for the solid discussion.
One of our current football players is driving a McClaren.
Who?
I assume Woodson based on his need for speed
The only angle i can think somewhat related to this is that in many cases, one of the primary drivers for athletic donations is status in booster club which translates to priority for season tickets. So the pitch is more directly (but I know still not exactly) selling people concrete goods/services. "Donate more money and start coming to games"
In the case of Blacksburg/VT, I think there are a good amount of alumni willing to donate some amount of money, but going to games regularly or at all isn't feasible so you're basically just asking them to donate more for the sake of school pride. Personally, could I up my Hokie Club donation? sure but since I see absolutely zero return on investment physically or emotionally for that dollar and my extra money probably wouldnt even move the needle, why bother?
My data points for this are just my experience with VT and my brother in law who is an Ohio State alum, so let me know if I'm totally off base.
I do buy this - proximity/easy access to your (monied) boosters is helpful because it makes them easier to engage with, which makes them more willing to donate to the program.
I would hope that an expert fundraiser could address (or at least mitigate) this. After all, it's not a problem for 'main campus'.
TL;DR
If we lose Saturday Whit should be fired by Monday and Pry Tuesday. Start looking for a new AD and put Montgomery as Interm HC. At least he's been a HC before.
I really like Pry but I gave Fu the benefit of the doubt for a while and it never got better. But that was better than where we are now.
Regardless of what happens, I'd like us to follow-suit on what so many other schools are doing and bring in a General Manager of Football Operations. Have it someone who's main job is to oversee everything about the football program and be the one person who the head coach is accountable to. My ideal candidate there would be Bruce Arians, and let him build out the program as he sees fit with the Athletic Director staying the fuck out of his way. Let him run the head coaching search so we can also look for a replacement of Whit as well.
Bruce Arians would be the perfect guy for this.
Another name who is really beginning to make his name in the front office is Jeff King. While he doesn't have the resume of Arians, I do think having someone like in the "front office" could be a game changer.
King likely would be a better GM than Arians. Would much rather Arians be involved in evaluating the coach/football operations piece. King is involved in player evaluations and contract negotiations and has interviewed for GM roles twice now. My concern would be he wouldn't consider it if it lessens his profile for an NFL GM role.
Then make the GM role like the NFL role so it doesn't lessen his profile.
git is going to push our shit in and not pull out
Won't matter if they aren't on the master branch and nobody merges their commits (Sorry, I don't know if autocorrect is making gt into git for you, but it's almost impossible for me to pass up a programming joke and nothing else involving VT football is bringing me joy right now).
Technically their name is the Georgia Institute of Technology. It's their VPI.
I grant you a leg for enlightening me gracefully good sir.
Great post as per usual. This certainly seems to me like the right blueprint to follow.
The Pry and Collins comparison is also appropriate because not only were they very similar as HCs (not good, in over head), but I believe they are also good friends, lol.
But yeah this is a great analogue to our situation. It is possible for us to turn this around, we just have to nail the AD and HC hires and get alignment top down. Who we put in these critical roles is super important right now. No more room for experiments or learning on the job.
And both DCs as well