We already knew Pry and Deshaun Foster from UCLA.
Today Mike Gundy at Oklahoma State joined the ranks of those fired. Figured it was cleaner to have a new thread rather than adding on to a 400 comment thread.
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Fickell or Napier, you're next
I feel like there's a "Finkle or Einhorn" type parody here that I can't quite come up with.
Thanks, ltrepeter2000!
I was going to make one, but I'm about to go on a trip for a bit, and I didn't want to hold up any updates.
I remember a lot of us wanted Napier bad when we were searching, and now here he is about to get fired the same year as Pry.
TKP was mixed on Napier - more mixed than they were on Pry, I think. There were some who really strongly advocated for him and others who equally strongly advocated against him. I don't have the receipts but I'm sure they're out there
I was solidly against and took heat for it
I was solidly for, and probably gave you some heat. In retrospect he was good at the Cajuns because of his ability to get players significantly better than the rest of the conference...I don't know that he's going to have that crutch anywhere in the P4
I was a big Napier advocate.
At the time I would have been content with Napier but really after Fuente was a slam dunk hire I just dont see why i should get excited for a new coach.
I was against Bowen as an OC, Marve I wrote off as Pry's protégé a la Bud to Frank, but a really green OC too.
My thought was that someone of napiers profile (experience P5 assistant + winning G5 cosch) is basically what we're looking now. I really didn't think his time at UF could go wrong... until I saw he hired more assistants than players on the team. They was the first red flag. His unwillingness to give up play calling was the second.
Will attempt to build a Google Sheet this evening. May need help on the inbed on that. That is one piece I have struggled to use on here with my basketball write-ups for stats.
https://www.tablesgenerator.com/html_tables
It will generate the html. Then change the class to blog_statistics
I thought this was the link to use. That's what I used a lot in the Iditarod thread. Got it from this comment containing instructions, and bookemarked them both.
Interesting enough and a coaching change. Bruce Pearl announced his retirement today, 42 days before basketball begins.
He ambushed Auburn so they were forced to go with his son as Head Coach to prevent a massive portal exit.
Also so he can run for political office.
because his morals are that low?
Pearl has always been a little flexible in that department.
Bruce Pearl rides the line between "morally flexible" and "morally bankrupt"
Ah, Pulling a Tony Bennett then.
Oh hey! This sounds like what we're dealing with in Chicago City Council.
In my heart he'll always be 40
I'm assuming OK State will go after Zac Robinson. Former quarterback in Stillwater, now OC for Falcons.
I could see Jamey Chadwell there
The Mullet Succession , coming to bookstores everywhere fall 2026
He's not really been doing so well as of late.
As a Hokie alumni and current OK State grad student (go Pokes), this has been a particularly bad year to watch football. On the other hand, I'm not a big fan of Gundy the person so I'm not sad to see him go. It is impressive to see that even with a shit ton of oil money thrown at it, you can still drive a football program straight into the ground. Makes me feel less bad about Pry driving our broke ass program into the ground. Now I'm stuck living vicariously thru my daughter at Minnesota. Can't wait for hockey season to start.
Any idea what happened to him there? It seemed like Oklahoma State had done about as well as any non-P2 team could do for a long time. And Gundy had a very solid record until last year. Then everything fell apart. Did he just lose interest and mentally quit? Just feels so odd for things to crater that badly after from 2006-2023, an 18 year run, having:
0 losing records
8 10+ win seasons
10.5 times ranked (one year ranked in 1 poll but not the other)
12 bowl wins
To then totally tank to 4-11 in the last 1 1/4 seasons
I mean, I would love for VT to have the run he had at Oklahoma State https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Gundy
Seemed to lose the locker room between 3rd and 6th game last year. They started 3-0 and then lost all 9 conference games. Losing to Utah was a close loss against a ranked team but then kind of like Hokies against Vandy/ODU they got trounced by ranked Kansas State and then in game 6 got their doors blown off by a bad WVU team. They put up some fight down the road but then end of season 52-0 drubbing by Colorado really defined the season. Gundy fired both coordinators at end of season.
This season, I watched them lose to Toledo. Their QB is worse then Drones. If Rangel couldn't beat out their QB I understand why he appears to be 3rd string for us. Their defense could not stop the run at all against Tulsa either. Tulsa RB went for about 150 yards. They put up no fight against Oregon either. 69-3 drubbing.
Fun fact - OKst has had eleven 10-win seasons in program history, and 10 of them came when Gundy was playing QB or coaching.
Not sure how many Gundy pressers you've watched recently, but he spends a lot more time complaining about the NIL/portal world than adjusting to it (Which is somewhat ironic, given that - when it comes to scheme - he's pivoted/adjust more than almost any coach not named Nick Saban). He alleges that his last 3 rosters have made $7m collectively - that's G5 spending. He's also run off some talented players lately. He's not shy about sharing (or at least heavily insinuating) his political opinions.
I figured OK St would THRIVE in the NIL landscape. Endless cash from T Boone and close to Texas recruits.
T Boone Pickens actually died about six years ago.
Yup, the endless cash ended. That said, the 156 million he gave could have been invested like an endowment.
The Boone Pickens QB.
The OKST/Gundy decline started right after TBoone died. I think it's half Gundy is not a good coach for the new era of CFB and half TBoone not being around to make sure everyone is pulling in the same direction.
I thought this as well, but TBoone died in 2019. They've won 8, 12, 7, 10, 3 in the subsequent five seasons.
There was still T Boone Pickens money coming in until 2023. He donated over $650M total, most going to Athletics and a Scholarship Endowment. Last gift was $120M in 2023 as part of settling his estate. About $25M of that was earmarked for football. He paid for the school golf course to be completely overhauled, about $60M to the Scholarship Endowment and another $25M to build the OSU Human Performance Innovation Complex available to all students.
I stand (somewhat) corrected. That's still fairly inconsistent, especially the last three. It's just also had this feeling of falling off both talent-wise and inconsistent results. That 10-4 2023 season they got smashed at home by South Alabama.
Coaching carousel claimed Sam Pittman at Arkansas today after losing 56-13 to Notre Dame
Laptop is on fritz so haven't had a chance to build spreadsheet yet
The way they got obliterated and him already being on the hot seat, there was no way for them to keep him. I also think they have a bye next week so 2 weeks for the interim to do things their way.
edit: Holy shit, they actually named Petrino as the interim hahahahaha
56-13 doesn't do justice to how bad that ass whooping was. Notre Dame was up 42-13? at half and could've probably put up another 30 or 40, but played the backups a lot
Yeah can't believe Petrino is getting another shot with all his personal BS in the past. Vroom vroom
I must post this link 😂😂
https://youtu.be/NwqBEuJBhhs
That was absolute gold in under 30 seconds.
I can't get it to work unfortunately.
Damn..I was hoping Arky would be just good enough to keep Pittman one more year.
I see lots of crossover in our potential coaching candidates and they have Walmart and chicken money that we just don't have an answer for
Isn't turkey$ > chicken$ ?
Trent Bray fired at Oregon State
Dude was set up to fail. Might also be a bad coach (I haven't watched OrST since Peterson left), but had no chance at being good.
Wake Forest beat them 39-14 yesterday with their 2nd String QB to give some insight. Both Oregon State TDs were in garbage time with 3rd string out there for Wake on both sides of the ball. OSU only had two drives longer than 50 yards. Losses to App St, Fresno St and Wake this season. Weird quirk, they still play Washington St twice in their remaining games.
There was an article from an Oregon newspaper that basically said he had already lost the locker room. Oregon State definitely has been taking it on the chin and he wasn't in a winning situation, but it also sounds like he probably wasn't a good coach either.
if Luke Fickell makes it through the day, ill be shocked
WOW. They actually did the damn thing
$49 Million buyout.
With that as my buyout, I'd be trying to get fired. I'd gladly go into work Friday and get canned and handed retirement.
My VT-centric thoughts:
For context, our football team spent a total of $40 million in fiscal year 2024. That's coaching salaries, travel, budget, recruiting budget, operations, equipment, everything football.
Franklin immediately becomes the top candidate for open SEC schools so maybe a wash in that regard if Campbell isn't our top target.
I don't know if he's an attractive candidate after this weekend. Penn State has been really well financed over the last two seasons, and they plateaued. Florida, Auburn, etc. all have national championship potential, and have all won or competed for a national championship far more recently the Penn State has.
Maybe at an Arkansas or if Missouri opens up because Drinkowitz gets poached, I could see those schools settling for him... but no blueblood/blueblood adjacent school (except for maybeee USC) will give him a shot.
Franklin's family is in Florida and his wife reportedly isn't happy in Happy Valley.
Expect Florida to fire Napier and hire Franklin.
I don't doubt that Franklin's family would rather live in Florida than happy Valley Penn State. I'm telling you that I don't think Florida has any interest in hiring Franklin.
Franklin is a tough sell to any fan base after losing back-to-back games as a 20 point favorite, while having two coordinators on the roster making $3 million per year
Franklin can take any team to 9+ wins until the bottom falls out
Florida's bottom falls out annually. No loss.
- Stephen King, The Stand
So, Penn State can't be content to simply big dog us for recruits, but now they're gonna take our coaching candidates too...super
No... they're going to take coaches from schools who we'll compete against.
I've heard Manny Diaz's name floated from PSU friends - no idea if there's truth to that - but suppose PSU hires Diaz and now Duke is open. Duke and VT are fishing for a new coach in the same pond.
10 years ago, who'd have thunk that Duke may have two of their head coaches poached away by P2 programs while VT was was flailing around with two head coaches that struggle to stay above .500?
Not only that, but the Duke HC job might be a more attractive gig than VT, ouch
Such a good final thought (from an otherwise mediocre blog post). Source.
This is shocking. I thought Norvell was at risk and maybe Freeze or Napier, but probably the second best coach in program history who made the semifinals last year? I know PSU fans are fed up with him not being able to break through the ceiling, but this gives me massive Nebraska Bo Pelini vibes. The likelihood of them being able to hire a coach who can take the next step vs a coach who can't replicate the same level of consistency is extremely low.
Norval just lost to Pitt. He might be gone. Freeze continues to have unimpressive results and even worse pressers.Honestly, I think Napier is the most likely of the three to keep his job. And I don't think the odds are great lol
This was my opinion a couple years ago, but we've seen Penn State make enormous investments in the program. Their NIL is one of the best in the game. They have two coordinators each making $3 million. And, they no longer have to play Ohio State and Michigan every single regular season.
No hire is a guarantee, but I think it's pretty likely that the next guy at Penn State makes a playoff in his first year or two.
Whoa. That's a whole lotta dead money.
I have to agree, this is actually kind of pretty bad for us
Wow, just wow. Took them to within a game of the national championship last year and fired this year.
I boldly (and incorrectly) stated yesterday that Franklin would survive due to the buyout which I had read (on Black Shoe Diaries) was 56 million dropping to 49 million on January 1st.
The expectations in Happy Valley are outrageous. I get it that this year has been tough but (and I am not a fan of James) Franklin had done as well as I expect anyone to do at that job.
But unlike at VT, their funding matches their expectations.
Reading that the rest of the staff would cost them another $10-12M in buyouts, mostly the coordinators.
Two students were selling these pre-game for $5 each
dear god, please dont let us do the absolute dumbest thing ever
Weaver isn't our AD
Would've been fantastic if Whit made the move last year, in a much less competitive cycle. But, it's Whit. Now we will be competing for someone in an insanely difficult carousel. He truly is the gift that keeps on giving.
We definitely is not the best at moving on from Bell coaches. I'm curious how much of this is him versus our financial situation.
Well the financial implications also wouldn't be as bad if he didn't negotiate such one-sided deals we can't get out of, lol. I mean even Pry who we had 0 competition for and basically asked if he wanted the job, we signed for $4+ mil a year and a buyout of I believe 75% of his remaining contract. Shane was hired at SC for like $2.5 mil on his initial deal.
lol, is there any chance we interview Franklin? Would be pretty hilarious to replace his old DC with him.
Honestly, dude rolls out of bed and wins 9 games
Franklin has won less that 9 games four times in his career:
It's just so wild that I know he's objectively good at running a program, but yet I think Penn state fans aren't being irrational by wanting someone better.
I think people there are just frustrated he hasn't won the natty for them. I get it, we were getting frustrated by going to sooo many Orange Bowls during Frank's tenure at VT lol. Grass is certainly not always greener. I just think other than a small handful of schools, having real aspirations to win a natty every year is just insanely unhinged. PSU is a very good program, but they're not OSU. OSU is a legit blue blood, top 3 all time caliber program.
Agreed, they are not a blueblood imo.
I was reading the comments over at Black Shoe Diaries and was tempted to jump in on the discussion when they were referring to themselves as a Blueblood program. I resisted as I wasn't looking for conflict and they were obviously hurting after the NW loss.
PSU to me is insanely similar to Tennessee. Very good/elite program, rabid and fairly over the top fanbase, great stadium and atmosphere, have had some success and hit the top a few times historically. But they just aren't quite on the same level as a OSU/Bama and never will be.
OSU,Bama, ND are the blue bloods, michigan probably is too but so much of them winning was 100 years ago. Those for have higher winning percentages than everyone else by a good chunk. Nebraska might have been here 20-25 years ago.
OU is next, closer to the to than the next set but really not like the others.
Texas, PSU, and USC are next. when grouping by both wins and %. This feels about right, they come along get a championship and then do nothing for a decade or so. Nebraska would have been here 15-20 years ago.
Then you get Tennessee, Georgia and today's Nebraska (they fell hard)
No one else really has anything close to those 11 programs. They've all been good for a long time, but there is a lot of difference from Bama to UGA.
I always reference this:
Thank you - yes hard agree that there are 8 blue bloods. The only argument that is worth having about this is how much longer Nebraska would need to continue their current underperformance to get demoted out of the group.
It seems like people are more likely to argue what "blue blood" means. But if you go by the most widely-accepted definition (long term, historic, continual winning / dominance) then it is these 8 schools.
And for basketball there are 6 blue bloods (Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, UCLA, Indiana)
Well that's easy - the need to be left behind. It's going to take years, another 1-2 decades, probably more, for that to happen.
Kinda sad seeing VT in the next group behind the usurpers. If I squint real hard, I can remember when we were good and consistently mentioned among the upper echelons of CFB hierarchy.
Let's turn this bitch around!
Beamer had us in that usurper tier in the 2000s. We unfortunately just got complacent and refused to keep pace, eventually getting lapped by Clemson and others.
Someone on Reddit made an interactive version of the chart. I updated the filters to ignore the last 15 years of VT football, but sadly, you still see that VT is buried in the slop:
Even if you filter it to only include the Beamer years (1989-2015), you see that VT is still behind all of the bluebloods and nuevo rich:
Definitely puts our place in the sport in perspective
He finished 4-17 against anOSU and Michigan. If I were a PSU fan and my primary expectation of my coach is to get the program into that top three in the league instead of always being a distant third, that wouldn't be good enough for me either
They want to a win a natty which is fair, but what coaches can you say would "likely" win a natty at PSU? Kirby Smart, Ryan Day, Nick Saban who they're not getting.
So next tier of guys who could theoretically do it would probably be: Cignetti, Matt Rhule, Dan Lanning, Antonio Freeman. I don't think they can get Lanning/Freeman, and I don't think it's a sure thing that Cignetti/Rhule can do better than Franklin.
I get the frustration (especially with a prick like Franklin when you see him yelling at students after every game), but I think it's unlikely that their next coach exceeds the second tier glass ceiling they're finding themselves in. That's if they can even match it.
But they're not looking for a sure thing. They're looking for upside. They have the money to burn, so they can hedge and make a new hire. If it fails, they just hire someone else.
Fran Brown is someone I think would have high upside who would be a great hire for them.
Yeah i get that. Just seems like it's more likely they do worse not better, but i guess that's the risk you have to take.
PSU is also weird bc we don't really know what the program is in modern day because the last 25 years have been: twilight of Paterno -> sanctions -> BOB rebuild years -> Franklin.
Were they consistent because they're Penn State or were they consistent because of Franklin?
I don't think you realize that Penn State is one of the 10 most financially well supported programs in the country. They were paying $3m/year for a DC, $10m/year for an HC. When they wanted a new OC they just looked to see who was running the most creative system out there and sniped him.
They are (were) literally outspending Alabama when it comes to staff - Alabama doesn't even have a coordinator making $2m **scoffs**
And given that Penn State DGAF about shootyhoops, I bet 90% of their rev share money is going to football.
Franklin transformed PSU from a school that was afraid of investing too much in football for fear of appearing overzealous into a school that is willing to be cut-throat and fucking win. That is the great irony of his time at PSU: He elevated the program to a level that he was incapable of competing at and he lost his job as a result.
Yeah i think they may have been overzealous and willing to do questionable things before Franklin...
But they do GAF about grapplyflips, so a good portion of their rev share money goes there, I'll bet.
Is grapplyflips rock climbing? Either way, I'm sure you can get good at grapplyflips for $2.5m/year, and give the rest to football.
Wrestling... multiple National Champions to pay to keep happy.
ND made a field goal with 7 seconds left in the Orange Bowl this year that kept Penn St out of the National Championship Game, so yeah I do think its being unreasonable for Penn St fans to expect a new head coach to come in and be better than that. You're talking about 9 months removed from literally the high water mark of the entire football program over probably the last 30 years or so.
I just don't see anyone available on the landscape that is a clear upgrade from Franklin that is likely to be available:
-Fran Brown - great Recruiter, but PSU was already Recruiting well. He's not really any sort of improvement over Franklin as a game-day coach IMHO
-Rhule - has been fine but not spectacular by any stretch since coming to Nebraska; he's 6-12 in the B1G; that's an upgrade??
-Kiffin - maybe close but I would consider a lateral move; 18-14 in SEC; $50mil + his contract is a lot to pay for a coach with a similar profile to Franklin.
Wanting someone better is fine, but the hard part is actually finding them.
I would disagree. I think Fran Brown is a pretty saavy game day coach. He's 13-6 since arriving, and by my count, 8-2 in one-score games, 3-0 in overtime games, and 4-3 against ranked teams.
I know this isn't the best way to show someone is a good gameday coach, but I don't think it's a bad proxy.
Pretty small sample size to make the conclusion that its worth spending about $80 million when its all said and done.
Again, the idea here is to go from contender to legit championship-level team....
Brown's had one good year in a much weaker conference with a quarterback who was clearly undervalued.
He's 3-3 in a weak ACC this year.
That's a hell of a lot of projection...
Was 3-1 with only loss to now #11 Tennessee before losing his starting QB to a season ending injury. Backup QB has struggled on interceptions. Has 5 in two games.
Sure, but injuries are going to happen anywhere.
Allar is now gone for the season at PSU--would Franklin have gotten the benefit of the doubt for the rest of the season in that scenario?
The point isn't that Brown stinks. Maybe he does...maybe he doesn't.
Its that firing a proven coach who has gotten you very, very close to the pinnacle of the sport to hire a guy with a super limited sample size who beat Miami once is a big risk and a huge amount of money to lay out.
I understood why Nebraska fired Frank Solich, I didn't understand stand why they hired Bill Calahan. I understand why Nebraska fired Pelini, I didn't understand why they hired the Oregon state coach. I understand why PSU fired Franklin. He proved he couldn't do it. Now they are going to the unproven, but lots of coaches were unproven until they weren't. They need to hire some one that is a splash and not just some random NFL guy that sucked in the NFL
EDIT: lots of people are saying Matt Rhule is the target. You don't fired James Franklin to hire Matt Rhule. He's even worse at winning big games.
This is where I'm at. UGA fired Richt because Kirby was available and had huge upside coming from the Saban tree. Miami fired Diaz because Mario was available. Florida fired Mullen for Napier. I don't know who the hot guy on the market is who'd be willing to go to PSU with clear upside to build on what Franklin had. There's no assistants that everyone's talking about, there's no one at a mid-level power program who both inspires hope and looks like they want to make the jump.
If you're going to make this move, make it when you know you have a candidate and you know you're controlling the carousel. There doesn't seem to be a candidate and the carousel this year has Florida and possibly Auburn, FSU, and even LSU. That's not to mention VT, UCLA, Arkansas, Wisconsin, OK St, Michigan St, UNC, and NC St. Stanford
Fran brown
I don't see it. I get where you're coming from, because you've explained it above, but I find it uninspired.
A guy that is 3-4 and blown out by Duke and about to be on a for game losing streak?
Agreed. I am not an expert on what PSU is looking for but do talk to PSU alums and snoop on their message boards from time to time and imo
His team is ravaged by injuries right now.
Primarily Starting QB. They were 3-1 when he got hurt in the win over Clemson. Been all downhill since then.
They will likely lose at least 3 of their 5 remaining games. GT, Miami, and Notre Dame. Possible wins are UNC and BC.
Coach without a backup plan. /S
Win over Clemson isn't impressive. Franklin is 3-2 in games against ranked opponents where two of his wins were GT who was only ranked because they beat a top 10 FSU team that went 2-10, and late season Miami which is less impressive.
This is nothing against Brown I would take him in a heartbeat, but I wouldn't fire Franklin for him.
I for one want NOTHING to do with Franklin.
I can't stand him personally, but he would win. We'd be lucky to have him.
I thought our last two coaches were good guys. I don't need the next one to be a nice guy. He just needs to not be a loser.
This. For the love of god, do whatever it takes to get someone who will do whatever it takes
Seeing Hokie Twitter hating on Franklin for not winning the big games....Frank Beamer made a career of not winning the big games on the back of a solid season, and got a statue of him 😂
What are we doing here?🤣
It is legit insanity. "Kirby Smart is a scrub, he keeps losing to Bama" is the vibe
If he'd come to VT, we should hire him in a millisecond.
I know my vote will not count (unless I become the 150th 🙄 committee member) but:
A live view of hokieforever12
/s
I don't think there is a chance that Franklin even picks up the phone if VT calls....
Franklin will have no trouble finding a job with more "brand value" than VT. I know everyone is completely down on him now, but there is a ton of Recency Bias here.
When it comes down to it, there is a simple supply and demand issue here and Franklin is one year and a few plays away from being in the CFP Championship---you really think P4 schools that haven't sniffed that level of success are going to ignore that because he lost to a shitty UCLA team?
Do I think he is a great coach--particuarly on Game Day?? God no. But please tell me how many P4 teams are going to look over a coach with his resume to hire a G5 coach who is a total unknown at this level?
This carousel is now going to be insanely tough with a lot of high profile openings. I'd say the odds we end up with Shane are getting increasingly higher. I don't buy his public signals that he's not interested.
I don't know about Shane's interest or lack thereof, but we're getting absolutely screwed by this carousel.
We'll be lucky to be in the top 10 openings by season's end.
Whit and Sands are the gifts that keep on giving. Have screwed VT athletics continually and put us behind the 8 ball for over a decade now.
I think at this point you have to do a hail mary for Shane. Bump his pay and job security from SC and give him the budget to hire all star coordinators.
He's making $8.15M per year, we can't afford to give him a raise.
Last reports said we are willing to pay $10 for a coach. Would he take a discount and take more for assistant staff? Who knows.
I don't trust anything from this Athletic Department.
Whit is still employed. Sands doesn't seem to care about athletics. The BOV has been asleep at the wheel for decades.
The new 'budget' that was announced appears to be all smoke and mirrors, a lot of the money hasn't even been raised yet and I have no faith in the Hokie Club to get it done.
Until there is a massive overhaul within Merryman, or we discover a billionaire alumni nothing will change.
tl;dr - I'll believe it when I see it.
We are on a one-way path to overpaying for a middling coach and fading farther into mediocrity (being generous with terminology here) on the field and deeper into debt off of it.
The overall process is disjointed as all hell---seems about as well thought-out as UNC's.
Maybe we one-up UNC and hire Belichick's SuperBowl nemesis --- Tom Coughlin ???
I get Underpants Gnomes vibes from South Park:
Step 1: massively increase athletics budget
Step 2: …
Step 3: profit (i.e. win CFB national championship)
I agree. Have my massive doubts as well. Committee and whole process seems to be about as convoluted and disorganized as we've come to expect from VT.
$10m for a coach is about to become the median in P2 (in a year or 2) unless teams start paying players more.
Narduzzi - who is a mid coach at a mid program - is making $7m/year. Think about that.
Well, then we are just screwed lol.
All the more reason why I think it's Shane or bust at this point with this cycle. If we overpay for an unproven coach and it's a bust again that might just be it. Shane at least would recruit well and hire good coordinators.
The money difference between P2 schools and VT (even after our increased budget) is startling.
PSU is dropping big money to more than likely continue to play second fiddle to OSU. 🙄
Early odds are that Penn State targets Cignetti and Kiffin
Replace Kiffin with Rhule
I hate franklin, can't stand the guy or pedo st. But i would think he would have us recruiting at a high level and keep the VA kids here...
And he'd recruit Maryland well which has more talent. He would have us making pretty regular ACCCG appearances although we might not win any.
He recruited at Penn State well, then proceeded to do less with more. We're looking with a do more with less or, better yet, do more with more type coach. No thanks.
Only three active coaches (Dabo, Kirby, Day) have won a national championship. I think those are some mighty lofty expectations for VT if we are expecting that type of a hire. I would be over the moon if we could get Beamer-level wins and conference championships again to vault us back to national relevancy and a P2 conference.
Have you matched his recruiting rankings to his AP finishes? Because unless he was consistently recruiting inside the top 3, he wasn't doing "less with more". Franklin won all the games he was supposed to, and lost to the teams that were slightly better.
In his 11 years he finished ranked 7 times. He didn't finish ranked in his first two years and the two COVID impacted years (2020-2021). Of those 7 ranked finishes only one was outside the Top 15, and five were inside the Top 10.
Bud Elliot already on CBS Sports hyping up Franklin to VT. Could literally just bring a ton of players and his recruiting class right down to Blacksburg. The thought is intriguing for a very fast turnaround next year and a staff/recruiters that already own the area. But man, I'd feel pretty icky. Lol
We could do, and have done, a lot worse
My thoughts as well. He would not be my first choice but I'd be okay with it there are far worse decisions we can make.
Add UAB to the list. Dilfer just got canned
PSU just shelled out more money to make their current coach go away than we'll pay to make one stay for 5 years
I do not want franklin. He has questiobable character and he cant in game coach. In the NIL era just let a gm buy your team and put a real coach out there.
Also, if you can't succeed at Penn State, where people may actually be willing to sell kidneys to fund the football program, I doubt you would succeed at Tech.
In fairness to Franklin (and I'm not very keen on him at all either), he WAS very successful at Penn State. He was one game from making the national championship last year, and a Rose Bowl win before that. 11 years of pretty high end sustained success. Yeah he failed to win the "big one" most times, but Frank Beamer was the exact same. I think most would be totally fine with a return to that level of consistency and winning even if we never win a national title.
Overall I think this was a huge knee jerk reaction from Penn State brass and I truthfully think they are going to regret it. PSU's program was in shambles and shame when Franklin inherited it and made them into a true national power. They hadn't really been relevant in the Paterno era other than a couple seasons here or there since the 90s any consistency. That fan base has very out of line expectations, almost Tennessee-esque.
3 years ago I would've agreed with you. BUT in a division-less B10 (easier schedule) and the Rev Share era, I disagree. PSU is investing heavily in coaches and players. The can upgrade.
James Franklin is excellent at every aspect of the Head Coaching job except in-game coaching. In the modern college game, I think that can get you inside the top 10 most years.
We need to win pretty much immediately at VT with this new hire if we want the financial investment to bear fruit and grow and if we want any hope of a P2 life raft after the ACC inevitably implodes. Objectively, Franklin could essentially be plug and play next year for VT given the recruiting region, his staff ties, etc. We need a splash now. Haven't been a fan of his but just taking that bias out of it, I don't see how you don't pursue.
I haven't been a fan, but I also haven't NOT been a fan
It would certainly be an interesting case study on how much relationships and brand-name matter in a post revenue sharing era.
This is so interesting. I met a Penn State grad (older guy, sixties probably) in a group setting today. Someone commented something about Franklin being out. His response was "two years two late." Given how well they did, it seems surprising. I'm guessing they want Natties or next guy up?
They're deluded because they thought a protector of pedophilia (Joe Pa) was going to lead them to the promised land. Total cult up there, most don't see anything wrong with what Joe did or didn't do.
edit: missed the protector part, withdrawing the comment.
But I agree, the number of people that loved him, and to a certain degree, I get it, but you don't ignore a guy who does virtually nothing to figure out what's going on with an investigation of that nature into one of your coaches, sorry.
JoePa was like a mob boss for years in central PA.
I've reposted it here before, but the best story ever is the one Kevin Jones told at a Hokie Club event many years ago. He was one of the top recruits in the nation and in PA. JoePa comes to visit his family and excuses himself to go to the restroom. He's gone a long time, and when he finally emerges, he cuts things off and leaves very abruptly.
A few minutes later Kevin's sister goes to the bathroom and screams. Everyone comes running, and there's an enormous turd and the the whole toilet is clogged up.
#JoePoo
That's amazing! It's like the opposite action of the bathroom scene in Dumb and Dumber. Hopefully it ripped his taint.
This alone makes the TKP membership worth it
Oh my god
Pooterno
Paturdo
Pooturdo
ah man it's too bad MacGruber isn't here for this. this would be the best day of his life
Whoever it was who originally told that story years ago on the TSL boards had me literally ROTFL. JoePoo is just too good.
Penn State f-ed up,no doubt. What, they gonna hire Saban?
I see a lot of Franklin hating, but he recruits this region extremely well. Does he want to coach more in this era after pocketing $50M?
If we can get him for $10M, I'd do it. The shock n awe and name recognition alone would be insane. And... coaching matters, he can coach, the records prove it.
This is where I'm at. Name recognition, knows how to recruit, low(ish) expectations.
I'm not super high on Franklin just because I've despised his snake oil salesman approach and him dominating VA recruiting for so long now. But objectively, if we could get a coach with his resume and him bring in a ton of his players, staff, and recruits, we'd be crazy not to pursue it.
This is the exact reason i made my original post on him. I've despised the dude ever since he started stealing the best VA recruits. The whole Devon Ford debacle still chaps my ass. But, if he were here pulling those guys, i think that's a win because he'll definitely be negative recruiting pedo st.
Would he get to keep his buyout if he takes another job?
Not publicly known at this point. Pennsylvania's public records laws are funky. The exact number of the buyout hasn't even been reported - it's somewhere between $46m and $56m
I wonder about a Franklin hiring. He would not have the backing at Tech that he had at Penn State. Yes, he did succeed at Vandy as well, but that was over a decade ago.
We hired Pry thinking of the recruiting bump and Penn State transfers we were going to get. None of which ever manifested. Could Franklin really boost our talent level? Possibly, but I think it is far from a guarantee.
One interesting aspect: if he can get started sooner, then he gets a huge jump on recruiting classes. He can start talking to kids in the portal, and he can start working the high school kids to try to get them to come to Tech. The extra month and a half could be crucial in building his first class.
Definitely would be a nice benefit to hiring him. If we get a coach from the American conference like Sumrall, Golesh, or Silverfield, we could miss out on the early signing period from Dec 3rd to 5th if they are playing in their championship game on Dec 5th.
Can he start next week?
I see people saying Franklin recruited this area well. Yeah, at Penn State, that has quite a football legacy and tons of money. Is it really realistic for someone to expect that a person coming from a school like that will recruit the same at VA Tech? I would think no.
This is a point, but we are bringing more $, not PSU $, but,....
When he was the HC at Vandy, he punched well above their weight class in recruiting and on the field. This is was in the late aughts when Vandy was still the doormat of the P5.
You have to throw out a lot of pre-NIL recruiting
Eh. I think you look at it with an asterisk but I don't think you just throw it out. A lot of these offers are similar, and I do think kids are considering the entire package. Also, Franklin has been recruiting at basically the same level before/after NIL.
I lean toward this comment with regard to recruiting. Recruiting seems to be more who are you recruiting for (which school) than how good are you as a recruiter.
I want to believe a good recruiter can markedly improve our results however I am inclined to believe a good recruiter will only marginally improve our numbers.
if that were true then Fuente would have been able to sign a 2020 class better than last place in the P5 without even trying. That horrible class still blows my mind.
Obviously recruiting has changed a lot since Fuente was our coach but Pry wasn't pulling in classes that were really on par with our brand / status. A lot of it is money but some of it is definitely still dependent on selling your program to the kids
You also have to have people recruiting and scouting, and our department of 1 quit.
Wait till you see this year's class.
Yeah but that 2020 class wasn't part of a coaching change. There was no excuse
I can think of at least one excuse
Feel like a joke just went over my head
COVID
but the 2020 class (the one that was ranked 77th in the 247 composite) was pre-covid. it was comprised of guys graduating high school in 2020 who signed with the school in early 2020. All of that was before Covid blew up so it had no bearing on that. Kind of like how the current class is the 2026 recruiting class.
Right?
I wasn't referring to covid for the 2020 class, but it does shape the way we look at it with hindsight
It was not a transitional coaching staff for that class, but the entire prehistoric recruiting op we had at the time up and left for UF.
Then the staff (coaches included) decided to punt on the small 2020 class (which i have maintained needed to be like TCU's class in that cycle, small but high impact and 4* average) and we wound up having a small class with low impact players in hopes that we could put all of the eggs in the 2021 basket. TX2VT, Dematrius Davis, high impact high ceiling big time class. And all the recruiting momentum for the 2021 class got killed by covid.
So not only was 2020 a whole entire dud, but we followed it up with.... More dud
Y'all.
You may not like James Franklin, but if any person on this site is acting like we're too good for James Franklin, get a hold of yourself.
Virginia Tech football is *not* an attractive option at the moment:
School President that doesn't value football.
Completely inept AD.
Terrible fundraising infrastructure.
BOV that has been complacent and asleep at the wheel.
A decade of being a non-factor in college football.
Don't start with me about the new budget, I'll believe it when I see it and even *IF* we get the money right, we're still a ways away from competing. We'd need to fire Whit, clean house, hire the right GM/AD etc. etc.
Franklin's inability to win big games is a mark against him but we aren't even good enough to make it to games that would be big by his standards!
I'll accept arguments that other candidates may be a better fit, but anyone who thinks we should turn our nose up at him is insane.
Agreed, I said this similarly above
Thank You!
This guy gets it.
We don't want James Franklin because we don't like him. He is kind of a slimy character, but guess what--behind closed doors, that's probably true of 85% of successful coaches.
Franklin's recent resume is essentially Frank Beamer @VT. Good teams, but more often than not, left you thinking there was more potential.
If the choice was between Bob Chesney and James Franklin...you're taking Chesney??? Yeah, didn't think so.
This is probably mostly moot, because I don't think Franklin is going to have any legitimate interest in VT to start with.
But holy shit do some of us need a reality check. Some half-assed media leak about investing more money in the athletics department doesn't all of a sudden make your mediocre football program the number one job choice on the market. Sorry truth hurts....
This is so fucking true. I saw a graphic on instagram with coaches records against top 5 teams. Guess who else was 1-25 or whatever against T5 teams? Frank Beamer.
I suppose the difference is that Frank Beamer was a true innovator when it came to special teams, while Franklin is one of the least schematically inclined coaches at his level. But I think that's irrelevant.
James Franklin won at Vanderbilt before anyone else ever had. Clark Lea can thank James Franklin for paving that path.
Do I love his personality or in-game blunders? Not at all. But he is an EXCELLENT college football coach who wins everywhere he goes. I'd take him in a New York minute.
I'm planning a longer post on this... but the new money keeps us from falling out of the arms race. It really isn't enough for us to leap frog (m)any schools ahead of us.
I'm sure the argument is that we need to spend more to eventually make more, and hope that we get good enough to get a life preserver thrown our way when the ACC eventually falls apart.
However, you are unfortunately correct. We'll still be behind, but less so.
Not even, this $30m makes it so we don't lose even more ground with the SEC/B10. Every one of those schools is getting a big raise with the new TV contracts. Data isn't widely available for FY25 (June 24 - July 25). When those numbers are publicly available, you're going to see that every P2 school got a $30m bump in TV revenue. On top of that, VT is losing in the new ACC viewership sweepstakes.
Well, now I'm even more sad.
leg
However,
Please tell me we all understand the cardinal rule of "Thou shalt not hire a Penn State reject"
Seriously though: Count me as a solid NO on a Franklin hire.
Yeah gotta agree there. Our fans acting like we're too good for Franklin is insane. DonV put it best
Neither Franklin nor Beamer could win the big game.
However, Franklin can recruit his ass off in a way that Frank couldn't. QBs are hard to find, and lots of programs have done well without game-changing QBs - hell Nick Saban won national championships with AJ McCarron & Greg McElroy, and an SEC Championships with Blake Sims.
The bar is *much* lower at VT right now, and Franklin should be able to recruit his way to where VT was in the 2000-2010s: win around 10 games, get to the ACC Championship with relative regularity, etc.
The QB part though....that's the most important player on the field and if you as a coach consistently fail to nail that hire...and that's where we are...hire, then you are fighting an uphill battle from the get go.
That said, I am not sure it's a legitimate knock on Franklin. Trace McSorley was three time All Big Ten, 4 years, 9900 passing yards. 77/25 TD/INT, 59% passing
Drew Allar before this year was considered a lock 1st Round Pick. 3+ years although Freshmen year was used in spot duty in 10 games. 7400 passing yards, 61/13 TD/INT, 63% passing
Christian Hackenburg was kind of a mixed bag but was All Big Ten Freshman of the Year. 3 years, 8300 passing yards, 48/31 TD/INT, 56% passing
Sean Clifford was honestly the most consistent of all Franklin's QBs even though Pry's defense didnt help him out record wise. 10K passing yards, 86/31 TD/INT ratio, 61% passing
In the last ten years Hokies would kill to have that kind of production at the QB position.
Allar wasn't a bust, but he didn't live up to expectations. The idea that he was going to be a 1st round pick this year was because there was an assumption that he'd be developed. Hackenburg wasn't a Franklin recuit and didn't fit Moorhead's scheme. Clifford was a dual-threat game manager - good enough to keep PSU in games, but not good enough to elevate the talent level of anyone on the field. If you put Drones on the same PSU teams as Clifford, I think you'd see similar results.
I think a lot of that production (with the exception of McSorely who was a fantastic college QB) was more due to the strength of the roster, less so due to QB play.
well Don, that's exactly why I don't want a second coach that can't win big games. It's not rocket science
In 2025 college football, the big games that Franklin lost are generally unattainable for Virginia Tech.
I think Franklin would win enough to have us competing for ACC Championships, which is our ceiling.
Well with that attitude it is.
Build the warchest. I don't care if it takes years, I don't care if it takes decades. Build it.
My point is, VT will never be at the blue blood level.
We'll be lucky to rebound and get back to whatever tier 2 is.
Saying we shouldn't hire Franklin because he can't win what PSU defines as big games would be foolish.
We don't have Ohio St or Michigan in our conference for a start. Our "big games" would be Miami who also has in-game coaching issues, FSU which can't seem to get their shit together, and Clemson who's falling off. I don't think any of those schools, who outside of Miami we don't play every year, is the same level as Ohio St.
And if we can get to the level of FSU and Clemson at their peaks, that'd be alright by me.
the big games that Franklin lost are generally unattainable for
Virginia Techthe vast majority of college football.So my Penn State friend shared this with me... I don't know what to think of it. The thread is interesting:
Some additional context, if you were unaware.
I have seen this same thing from multiple sources. A very strange world CFB is in right now.
Yea... there's also this piece published the evening of the NW loss before Franklin was fired (or before it was announced) talking about how PSU people were upset by the Adidas deal.
Seems sus
Why would Adidas spend so much money on firing James Franklin? There is no guarantee they get a better coach. The PSU athletic dept has to be all-in on football as it is the only way to make money/progress. But Adidas can make money all over the damn place in other ways. You're telling me Adidas execs are meeting and agreeing "yes let's pay the large sum of money (the 2nd highest buyout ever) so that there is a somewhat decent chance that one of our business partners gets a little better at football" I'm sure Penn State was going to be a massive advertisement for Adidas without firing franklin. Adidas has to have better ways they can spend 40ish million bucks
Adidas has fuck you money, and it's entirely possible one of their execs just doesn't want him representing their brand.
Fair, but seems weird they struck this huge deal in September then. He was very much still the coach and seemed entrenched, even if some fans thought he wasn't good enough. No one expected him to lose these 2 games as massive favorites.
Imagine if years ago we found out Nike wanted to fire frank beamer because we lost to JMU and then the school pulled the trigger. Not the same situation but weird. These kinds of moves are usually by unnamed boosters with tons of money and emotional connections, not German apparel companies
Boosters with more money than brains is also how you end up with Bill Belichick being hired by UNC before the Athletic Director even knew about it
That's not a position we ever want to be in. Google "Bobby Lowder Auburn" for some fun stories - just a guy with a metric ton of money and influence that was a chaos agent
Yep, fully agreed. That level of chaos is how you completely implode a program from within. Its how you end up as a Tennessee that feels like it needs to completely blow things up if you're not able to win a conference title within a 5 year period.
Personally, do I think James Franklin is the best coach out there? Just like all of us, he wakes up in the morning and puts his pants on one leg at a time, but when he's done with that he recruits his ass off and pisses 9 wins like an alcoholic. He would immediately raise the floor here in a significant way, and would completely rebuild our recruiting profile. If we are serious about having the money to contend, I really truly do not think we could do better than him, especially with Penn St now being in the carousel.
That being said, when we're talking about stupid money, I think we are all overlooking the most likely outcome of all this.
Bill Belichick is forced out for cause at UNC, meaning they don't have any buyout to pay, and Franklin is hired as their new head coach. Pretty much would destroy our ability to recruit in our own region for the foreseeable future, even moreso than its been to date.
That, and I get the sense that many on the committee and around the program are still clinging to the Beamer years and openly lobbying for Shane to get the job. He can say he loves South Carolina all day long, but the reality of the situation is he could lose out due to the schedule there this year. He's squarely on the hot seat and he's looking to jump.
I'd go after Franklin or Mullen immediately, but I'm worried we are going to wind up with Shane.
I think we only bristle about Shane because of the Beamer name. When he was here he was one of the few coaches who were willing to play the game to recruit better or to act like a big boy program in terms of doing things in a not so clean way. At the time, that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, but it also put him in a spot to be able to do what he did to make South Carolina a not terrible program, which for them is actually a pretty big step in the right direction compared to what they used to be.
He can recruit well, he knows how to manage a big boy program that can go toe to toe with the actual big boys of the sport and at least punch at a level that isn't a complete embarrassment. He would raise our floor significantly and would completely rebuild our recruiting platform for the better. I think he would be a very good hire for us, and would probably be one of the few guys we could hire who could come in and have our entire administration be willing to give him exactly what he wants just because of his family name.
I think he could be very good for us, but a big part of me thinks we need to move on from the Beamer era entirely because we are clinging to the past. I'm not going to hate it if he's the pick, but I'm certainly going to have mixed feelings. Especially if we didn't even fully consider people like Franklin, Mullen, etc. and just went with Beamer because of loyalties on the committee.
I mean realistically if you really want to talk about Shane at South Carolina....
SCar has had 36 head coaches in their entire 133 year history. Of all coaches, he has the 6th highest winning %. Of all coaches who has coaches more than 20 games, he's 2nd, behind only Steve Spurrier. And he's been doing this in the SEC during a time when that conference has been at the very least, the 2nd best conference in the country if not the best.
Yeah Shane grew up running around the Ballein house so no way he clears out the rot in Merryman
Idk about this. One thing i've thought about him is that he kind of comes off as an asshole. And he's just spent 5 seasons in the most cutthroat league around.
If he leaves the SEC for Blacksburg (giant if), I don't see an arrangement where he isn't the most powerful person in the athletic department.
This is literally the opposite of everything that comes out about him in the industry. When he got hired at SCAR, the Cover 3 pod concluded he got the job because he was a nice guy and everyone likes him. They thought he was going to be what Pry actually was.
If somebody did these things at my job. I'd describe them as kind of an asshole. I wouldn't submit an HR complaint to get them fired, but if someone asked what they're like "oh Shane? eh he's kind of an asshole"
So to the original point, idk if Shane would be successful here, but I don't think he'd be all "gee golly Mr. Babcock, I serve at your pleasure". He's not taking a backseat to anyone in Merryman
I don't actually think this is a bad thing. In fact, I want the next coach to sort of take charge. It's one of the positives I'd assume we'd get from Franklin. I think he would take charge of the program in a way that Fuente and Pry couldn't or wouldn't. I wouldn't mind Shane if he did that but at the same time I think VT needs to break from the Beamer legacy. I'd hate for Shane to come here and fail and sully the name, too. I'd just much rather not go in that direction.
Even if Shane had the same mentality and tried to shake things up in Merryman, I can imagine the people in and around the program who are part of the old guard would continually be trying to say, "hey Shane, I see what you're doing...but here's how your dad did things back in the day." Absolutely don't want that kind of influence on the coach.
Franklin would probably just about nuke the old guard mentality and I'm all for it.
I have no doubt that Shane would be the type to say, "And this is how it's done in the modern era. Get the fuck out of my way."
He would do it, but nicer. If Shane is HC, he's making sure we're doing things to keep up with the Jones's, and he might be able to do that better because he's Shane. He tried to do that last time he was here and he couldn't because he wasn't the guy in charge. Now he has experience in bigger programs and in the SEC to add to that fight.
I agree on that aspect. I'm not sure if he'd be successful, but I think the thought that "he'll be the same old same and Ballein will be running things" is not true at all with Shane.
100% agree with this. You hire Shane because he'll modernize all aspects of the program and use his relationships to overrule the Ballein guard.
I'm not saying he'd be golly-gee, I think he would modernize our football operation and get everyone rowing in the same direction. But he won't do it by being a dick. People like Shane as a person, which isn't always the case with these coaches.
Of your examples: UGA link isn't showing up, he apologized for yelling at the athletes, and the Bielema thing was more about Bert being a jerk.
I dont think he'd be golly gee. I think he would be the opposite cutting through the BS. OP was saying Shane would be more of the same, buddy-buddy with Ballein, etc. and my point was Shane doesn't seem like the personality type to do that.
So yes I think Shane's a bit of a prick. I also think that pricklyness would serve him in some ways.
PJ Fleck to VT, confirmed.
Hot take: It would be a great hire.
Beyond the fact that hiring Shane feels like the "old guard" of the Athletic Dept continuing to try to recreate 1999, I think there are some on-field issues to consider too.
USCe's 2025 feels quite a bit like VT's 2024 -- lots of Preseason hype, QB who was considered a "dark horse" Heisman candidate and---underwhelming performance from top to bottom.
He also made a shit hire at O.C. in Mike Shula and had to can his OL Coach because they have been piss-poor upfront.
Gives me some Pry vibes and, if nothing else, I need the next VT Head Coach to be ( 1 ) at least 40 IQ points higher than Brent Pry ( 2 ) be able to hire talented coordinators/position coaches ( 3 ) for the love of God, figure out how to put an above-average to good OL on the field.
I wouldn't absolutely hate Shane as a hire but I have some serious reservations not simply related to his last name.
So would those reservations go up or down if Shane said I am coming and I am getting Bryan Stinespring to coach the offensive line?
A Beamer is the HC in Blacksburg, with assistant hires named Stinespring, Foster, and Gray.
Throw in Billy Hite and I think we have a winner!
When our job opened, I had Shane as my #2 behind Mullen, but my biggest concern with him is hiring which has been really questionable and it seems he may be having success in spite of his coordinators. To be fair.letterkenny.gif Mullen also has extremely questionable DC hiring.
I think he acts an ass far too much for me to want him (at least yet), and I dont think he'll be hired, but i also think his odds are increasing as the weeks pass, and scar keeps losing. starting to think Clemson might be their only win left.
You mean you're still butthurt that he was happy when he beat us as the coach of another team.
no: see the latest rant from him, and there are a number linked above
None of those sound like anything any other coach doesn't do. Please link latest rant.
dont care enough, shane went on a rager about the oc. sounded like an ass again. i figured he would tramp the dirt down on us in atlanta but turns out scar sucks moderately less than we do so he couldnt.
and you cant be serious... i dont hate shane but giving him a lifeline makes us a completely unserious program. if he wasnt named beamer, we wouldnt consider it. hell, id hire chesney 100 times out of a 100 vs shane at this point.
I'm totally serious. He's shown he's a serious coaching candidate who if his name wasn't Beamer wouldn't give us the time of day because it's a lateral move at best and coaches rarely make lateral moves.
I go back and forth on shane... His record is:
Left on the schedule he has (4) Alabama, (8) Ole Miss, (3) TAMU, Coastal Carolina, Clemson. Those 4 losses include Vandy (top 15 team), Mizzou (top 25 team), LSU (top 20ish team), OU (top 15 team). If he wins 2 of his remaining games, he beats expectations.
Therapy words on Shane:
My tinfoil-hat-conspiracy is that the interest in Shane is just Fake News to (a) give Whit the space to do a coach search in peace and (b) get Shane a raise on a 5-7 season (which would be impressive agenting lol).
My other tinfoil-hat-conspiracy is that Whit is actually doing the search and the committee is just there to give him cover.
Disclaimer: My tinfoil-hat-conspiracy-theories are based on zero facts, just vibes.
ooo...I really don't like your second tin-foil-hat-conspiracy - Whit's hiring record for football coaches is not good (including Cincinnati)
That said, I'm not super confident in the committee either so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My hope is that we go after a guy who has a proven record of winning and has experience at HC at any level. I don't want to promote some coordinator because SEC or some nonsense. I also don't love the re-tread route but I'd take Mullen or Franklin over some random guy we've never heard of. There are a lot of big time openings (and there will be more) so I think the sooner we lock someone in, the better.
I'm going to be really disappointed if we strike out on everyone and end up promoting some random coordinator or hiring some old guy who has HC experience but has a spotty track record
Not sure I'd call Franklin a re-tread. Yes, he's unemployed, but only for a week!
Well, if you wouldn't call him a re-tread then you should be extra wary of him
Touché!!
They just gave Shane a raise last year. He is making $8.15M with increases of $100K a year until 2030 plus a bunch of incentives and other compensation.
Bill being forced out for cause will be litigated until his 24 year girlfriend is on SS. He would fight that for no other reason than he has nothing better to do if fired.
If that is a case, I want the next PSU coach to be a die hard Nike fan who wants Addidas gone just for the chaos.
Sounds like the Adidas deal is under fire at PEDO for other reasons....
https://frontofficesports.com/penn-state-adidas-deal-wrongdoing/
I dont for half a millisecond believe that
Friend of mine's (from Nashville) son played for Franklin at Vandy. His exact words are: "I will never support anyone playing for him".
That's all I need to hear. I'm out on him for potential HC.
I used to work with Orem Burks's dad, and met the guy, both seemed to be ok with Franklin. Granted, he o ly went to go play school. Making it to thw nfl was just icing on the cake.
Rumor has it that Napier will be out in Florida after the game against Miss St this weekend.
So we are shaping up to throw a big bag into a year where 25 schools need a new coach. perfect timing.
As much as our own fans want to doom the shit out of where we are, unbiased reporters who view the entire sport as a whole from the top down have a very different opinion on us being in the mix this year.
He follows that up saying that if Florida fires Napier, they're probably 1a/1b with Penn St, and I'm guessing FSU would be up there as well, but VT is still very much toward the top of these lists.
Nice post bringing an outside perspective on our program.
So actually then
Probably up there mostly on "ability to turn that gig into a bigger one" -- we better be ready for any mildly successful coach we get to Buzz Williams us
I mean lets be honest for a second. Given where we are, we would be fortunate as hell to be in a position where we have the kind of success where that even becomes a worry.
That said, assuming that the new budget is real (I still have concerns we have no clarity on the philanthropy aspect, like is that just pie in the sky hopeium right now, cause it sure as shit sounds like it) there really is no reason why VT wouldn't be a good spot. The administration is already openly stating they want the football program to run separately from the rest of the AD going forward. The 'GM' will essentially just be the football AD that reports to Sands, and now we're hearing they're going to allow the coach to determine who that will be. And Sands is opening a new oversight committee that basically just keeps tabs on football across the sport to inform us on necessary future increases of the budget before it becomes a problem. At least for now, they are saying all the right things and should make it attractive to any coach who wants it.
Because every P2 team is also getting a $20m+ raise due to new TV contracts AND VT is going to get another paycut due to the ACC Revenue distribution.
This $50m is a great start. But it gets us from a top 50 to top 40 at best. It doesn't catapult us into the top 25 funded schools.
Any coach that comes in does so with the expectation of being a top of the conference ACC program that gets the uneven revenue share in our favor. If any coach even considers that we would have a lesser ACC share, I don't want them, because it means they don't expect to be good
I think then Franklin should be the next HC because everyone wants to watch him lose big games, hed be great for ratings
The revenue share is based on a 5 year rolling period, so the next coach is going to be hampered by two fucking terrible Pry seasons.
This new revenue system sucks. We played a Top 15 team in GT on ACCN and FSU loses to Pitt on ESPN. I wonder which game drew the most viewers?
FSU was 18th going into the game and Pitt had a winning record going in as well and let's be honest...Tallahassee as a backdrop vs GT looking half empty for their Top 15 team. I think ESPN made the right call.
I feel like numbers 2-4 are very situational. Will heavily depend on the candidate.
I also think that the gloom/doom among the fan base is due to the assumption that there will be a half-dozen P2 schools in the mix this by December 7th.
Pate with a great take on just how stupid a decision it was for Pedo St to fire Franklin.
We absolutely should be on the phone with his agent today willing to throw all the money to bring him in. The guy just wins. And sure, every year there might be the risk that shit just blows up, but the guy wins a lot of games and rarely loses games he shouldn't. This would be like if VT fired Frank after shit hit the fan in 2003.
Interesting thought that a 9 win season can no longer be considered the floor for even the top CFB programs.
I mean in the age of the almighty Portal, every coach is going to inevitably get it wrong. Its just going to happen, and its far more volatile than ever before because you're constantly trying to keep your own guys around while trying to steal from everyone else. You can be top of the world one year and tits up the next. Its crazy. But with a guy like Franklin you expect the good years to significantly outnumber the bad.
It's not just that, it's the conference realignment as well. The good teams aren't split between 5 or more conferences. Oregon and USC don't get Cal or Arizona anymore, they have to play Ohio St and Michigan and PSU. You can't bank Oklahoma into the conference championship game when they have to play LSU or Bama or UGA. Parity is here but also the big programs are going head to head more often.
Was reading an article today from Dan Wetzel on ESPN and he cited this:
Yeah, Cover 3 brought up the same article or maybe Fornelli's version of it last week. This is why my bets haven't been hitting this year.
When you're paying your staff >$15m/year + $17m/year for players + NIL on top of it, the floor is making the playoff. PSU wasn't making the playoff this year.
Franklin's inability to win the big games might be explained by having to deal with a lot tougher gauntlet of a schedule. He won't have that week in and week out grueling type of schedule here at VT. Getting to the ACCCG will be easier; winning it will be biggest test of season and that's an auto birth to the CFP - someplace we haven't even been since there's been a playoff.
As much as i despise the guy, he's the number one person we should be pursuing. He can do it here, i feel it.
One super high side to hiring Franklin RIGHT NOW would be he would have time to recruit, especially if he walked off the job with all the PSU recruiting data, and also he could start working on hiring/agreements with his staff. It would also give him time to decide who needs to go from current players, coaches and especially support staff. Gives him 2 1/2 months until portal opens to start turning it around and gives the players some stability in terms of who will be head whistle next year.
Let Monty keep being the coach this season so Franklin can focus solely on offseason and next year.
when was the last time any program hired a new HC and had that coach join AND COACH mid-season? I'm not opposed to this at all, I'm just curious as to whether its been done.
Unless you count interims, this hasn't happened in the modern era.
Not midseason, but Fickell coached Wisconsin in the bowl game right after he was hired.
Read today's article on ESPN re: Franklin's firing.
AD cited inability to win big games, and showed the historical record against top-10 teams... which looked very similar to what Beamer had. To me this is absolutely a careful-what-you-wish-for thing....
Are you saying you wouldn't take another Frank Beamer? We're Virginia Tech, not Ohio State
no, i'm saying the opposite. We wanted to do better, thought it was a matter of coaching. Turns out that wasn't the answer.
Its going to be fun to watch the Penn St. program for the next few years since they basically said they expect to be in the national championship discussion every year until the the end of the season. Whoever signs up for that better have a real good baseline for their performance expectations, and negotiate one hell of a buyout because as we just saw, a tragic run of three games can ruin your employment.
You're missing the entire franklin era here. Let me give you an analogous situation...
Remember when Fuente flirted with Baylor? Lets say that after that, he that demanded all the resources in the world, and VT was wealthy enough to give him enough budeget to:
After allllll that, Fuente still asked for more, was still standoffish towards the fans, was never really seen around town, and just didn't feel like part of the community.
After ALL THAT, a year a rolled around when:
THEN Fuente lost to Miami after punting from the 36 yard line, then lost back to back games to Wake and Cal, each as a 20+ point favorite.
Imagine that. Because that's the Penn State experience. It's not about the three game run. It's about a coach who treated you like the giving tree, but when he cut you down to make a boat, the boat sank.
This is sort of my bias against Franklin and why I would feel sort of icky if we hired him. I mean we would be foolish to not look into it, he has been highly successful and recruits our region extremely well. But his snake oil salesman recruiting tactics and the way he always milked Penn State for more every time any little bit of scrutiny came up about him is pretty off-putting.
But I don't know, should we care about that? I really don't care if our next coach is a total jerk and has shady dealings (no rules in college football anyhow).
Yea - I feel conflicted about it. On one hand, I want a guy who wins with lesser talent because I don't think VT can land top talent without winning first (winning fuels booster giving, and that can be a tiebreaker for recruits). On the other hand, I think we need a guy who can cut through the bullshit in our admin to kick em into shape. Franklin is very much the latter, and not much the former.
We would be stupid not to consider it, but I think there are better options (for both parties).
I think Franklin is competent enough to win with lesser talent. He won at Vanderbilt and until two weeks ago almost never a lost a game he should have won at Penn State.
Obviously his teams were uber talented. But basically every year you could look at PSU's schedule and chalk up losses for OSU and Michigan (if they were good) and wins for everyone else. It's not Miami, Texas, or USCw where despite 5 stars out their ears, they end up losing 4 games a year to crap teams because they're poorly coached. Maybe the Hokies have conditioned me into a loser mentality, but I think winning consistently like that in college football is pretty impressive (and for the record, I find him to be a giant d bag and loved watching his downfall).
Could he knock off Miami, GT, and Clemson in year 1 here? No.
Could he put us in shape to beat G5 teams and the dregs of the ACC? I think yes.
Would he even want to come here? IDK
I'm not going to lie, good ole wholesome VT embracing the dark side and hiring its long time recruiting nemesis in Franklin would be the equivalent of this program going from Hulk Hogan say your prayers eat your vitamins, to Hollywood Hogan bad guy. The leg drop heard round the world. And I'm starting to sort of love it. Would show we want to do some crootin' and get serious.
Agreed. I actually would enjoy seeing us become a revived upstart villain ready to fuck some shit up and make some noise. It would mean we're finally winning games
Welcome to the Terror Dome!!!
What I'm saying - with the benefit of hindsight, how many of us would GLADLY take back the years of 9+ win seasons in exchange for regularly falling short of a NC (now playoff appearance)? THAT is what PSU is about to find out.
I hear ya - I'm saying that it's not the same and that won't happen to PSU. PSU has an athletic dept designed to succeed in 2025+. If This hire does worse than Franklin, they just replace him.
VT did not have an athletic dept designed to succeed 2015+. The downside of multiple failed hires for us was worse than will be for PSU.
So we hire Franklin and he brings Pry back with him as DC. /s
Pry doesn't even have to pack and move then! Maybe that house will be better suited as the DC residence rather than the HC one.
I wouldn't love it, but his wife and kids probably would.
While I do think Pry will likely be a DC somewhere either next year or the year after, I would highly doubt that would be here if we hired Franklin. I know I would not want to do that if I were him, I would take less money elsewhere.
I think the more likely scenario is someone else hires franklin and he brings Pry with him as DC
I bet Pry's contract doesn't even have an offset clause.
Thanks Whit!
i assumed this was sarcastic, but people seem to be replying to it.
Big NO for me...explained in two words: linebacker play
Correct, sarcasm...let me add the /s to the original comment.
We'll have to be really careful if Franklin is brought on as our new HC. If the DC he picks has a name sounding something like "Chad Powers", has suspicious looking hair/mustache, someone needs to do a secondary identity check.
Not sure I buy this. No way he agreed to this right?
Why not?
Seems to me VT SHOULD hire him for a reduced amount if they can.
Godfrey and Staples both reporting it on their podcast. Their sourced by agents.
Godfrey says James Franklin is petty and might take a ~$4m/year deal just to fuck over PSU.
Virginia Tech, please do this.
I mean if I was Franklin I'd take a $1m per year salary from the new school, letting Penn St cover the remaining $7m per year, use the savings in head coach salary to pay the coordinators an absurdly high range, and just let the wins roll in. If VT is serious about the increased budget, such a petty setup could really pay off, especially if he's able to have this recruiting region follow him.
I said effectively the same thing in a different thread and I agree. Hire him for a low amount, put in some nice bonuses and put some of the difference to the assistants and the rest into the NIL fund. Just remember you still have to be able to pay those coordinators when the offsets end.
I mean shit, the buyout runs through 2031, so you conceivably have 6 years to make it work. There's enough time there for a guy like Franklin to come in and transform VT back to a power at the top of the ACC, all while Penn St is paying for it.
Oh, and that buyout would end right around the time that the ACC is predicted to implode, and you'd think that someone like Franklin would have VT positioned to make the P2 jump, which would pay off hand over fist.
Its absolutely something worth doing. Bet on it to work out and expect to pay off any short term debt with longer term gains, because if it doesn't work out, you're probably fucked anyway.
Like the thought process. Not quite sure he can do that. Did a little googling:
"Franklin's contract includes an offset clause that will reduce the amount Penn State owes him if he takes a new job. This clause requires Franklin to "diligently search for and make a good faith effort to obtain another position appropriate for his skill set (i.e., coaching, scouting, and broadcasting only)" and to "make good faith efforts to obtain the maximum reasonable salary" at his new job."
Obviously there is a lot of wiggle room in both "a good faith effort" and "maximum reasonable salary". I could see a 3-5 million range not setting off a legal challenge but don't believe he can take a P4 job at a basement salary. So yeah the possibility to hire him for a nice discount exists, but not for a "fire sale" price.
And that's why we don't announce the philanthropy gift until after his contract is finalized.
It's gotta be a fair market value salary for a coach at a commensurate FBS type job. That would give a ton of flexibility. Pay him $5 mil a year and have PSU pay the difference for several years.
"They only gave me 4-5M a year because they said I couldn't win the big games as outlined by Penn State when they fired me"
He could argue his salary expectations were diminished after his mid season firing in embarrassing fashion. The average ACC coaching salary is about $6MM (without knowing private schools contracts and assuming a median). I think you could easily make the argument that would be a good faith offer.
He could get sued if he did that. Pretty sure that happened to Bert. But what if he took the median HC ACC salary (~$5m) - that would be defensible in court.
Why should he make at the top of the salary range especially as he was fired for underperformance.
Because someone else will be willing to pay him more.
welp. I still don't like his style of ball, but I think if we can elevate ourselves AND bring them down a peg, we should
Can see pics from this hosting site. What does it say?
Make Penn State literally pay for our upgrades.
National 247 writer who also contributes for UNC....
Love the odds on vacancies that don't yet exist!
Vanderbilt? Like Lea is going to be hired away? I am not sure he is the reason for their success.
Would Lea and Coach Kill be a package deal?
🤔
So you might as well parlay CJF to Nebraska and rhule to PSU lol
UCLA may end up hiring their interim coach the way he has them playing. Only sad part for him is their schedule is kind of murderers row the rest of season. Six games left with four against ranked teams, including Ohio State and Indiana. If he gets them to 5-7 or 6-6 I bet he gets the job, especially if they upset USC.
For those keeping track, the lines have moved
I really wonder what the line movement is based on. If all the real players have NDIs, then it's not information from Tech that's causing the movement. But if the oddsmaker is talking to people in Franklin's (or other coaches') circle, they should already know that there's a lot of talking with ulterior motives.
So what's causing the movement? Inquiring minds want to know!
"So what's causing the movement?"
People are placing bets. Oddsmakers are adjusting the lines so they make the most money. Nothing more, nothing less.
I may be in the minority but I would not like a Franklin hire (perhaps not for the same reasons as others, tho, those reasons are valid for me too). Mostly because I don't think he necessarily qualifies as a re-tread, thus putting him in the category of a "sitting" P4 coach. From Shelton Moss:
Good point. I tend to agree with you in that I don't see Franklin as a reread. I see PSU as being delusional.
And to be clear I have stated my NO vote on Franklin.
Is your "no vote" due to something about Franklin's personality, or do you think he's not good enough to coach at Virginia Tech? Because if it's the latter, it seems a tad hypocritical, no?
I believe PSU is delusional in thinking that they can do better than Franklin. They may, time will tell, but my opinion is that their ceiling is second fiddle to OSU (or third fiddle behind OSU and UM) regardless of whose neck the head whistle hangs around.
And just because he has done well for PSU doesn't mean I have to want him in Blacksburg. Have never been a big fan of Franklin. I will readily admit a lot of that is tied to his association with PSU. Not a fan of that place or that fan base at all.
However if at the end of the day VT hires Franklin, or some other coach who is not my preference, I will support and rally behind him.
I've never been a fan of Franklin at all either honestly. But I'm seriously really coming around to the idea of him coaching at VT. For one, it totally shakes things up (which I think culturally we need at VT) and would be a huge shot across the bow of college football that we are serious now about football again.
And secondly, the recruiting staff he would bring and put together at VT would likely be incredible. I think they would be absolutely dominant. Would make us instantly relevant and have us in back in the national conversation again on ESPN.
I agree, just the perspective of "This is how the big boys do it" would be very valuable for a few years. Someone needs to come in and wake the sleeping giant that is VT football.
Can I interest you in a saturday evening read?
I will say that I watched Franklin's interview on College Gameday and was actually impressed. He is (at least publicly) handling the situation with a high degree of professionalism. And it doesn't hurt his stock when Nick Saban comes out and says without reservation that PSU treated him unfairly in this situation.
Franklin said all the right things. He has always been well spoken so that is no surprise.
One of my negatives towards him is that I want VT to go younger. That being said Franklin came across as a coach who is still hungry and he presents as much younger than he is.
All of this probably won't matter to VT as I am reading chatter on BSD that Franklin has an interview in Gainesville on Wednesday. Even if not Florida he is going to have options.
Fun fact: Franklin is younger than Pry
I don't believe BetOnline knows anything, tbh.
Vanderbilt being so high is insane. Lea isn't going anywhere. He grew up in Nashville and played at Vandy. They should be +2000 or not on the list at all. Franklin to LSU is more likely.
The only one that seems wonky for a job I actually expect to be open are the odds on FSU. Curious why he doesn't think that would happen.
For the record, he did follow-up with where he got the numbers....
Ahh so no actual thinking on his part .... just regurgitation.
In my opinion its better that he got the odds from an actual sportsbook that calculates lines every day as their job instead of just making up numbers himself. But yeah he should have clarified that in the original post
He's a reporter, not a bookie... why would he be making the odds?
I imagine FSU would think they are too good for a coach who was fired. We want to become relevant again, FSU feels they should be competing for the national championship...and a coach who can't win the big game isn't going to move the needle for their fans and their expectations. For this Hokie, I would love to hear us even in the conversation again - to feel that HOPE in early season every year. To know we are only a few games away from reaching the goal. I miss looking at the schedule and seeing "gimmes." Man, we were spoiled - I vow to never underappreciate that again.
It's not that he got fired, it's all in your second point -- the feeling that he can't win big games and FSU wants natty's. Franklin seemingly has a ceiling that will be too low for FSU to accept. This is also the reason I don't think Florida or Auburn hires him. Florida because they also want natty's, and Auburn because that job you need to beat Bama and Franklin hasn't shown he'd be able to do that.
Cignetti has extended at indiana for big bucks -- 8 years at $11.6m per
Booo
Insane. They really said "Penn State, don't even think about it"
Also the odd hokie with unrealistic expectations lol
Yeah that ship been sailed. Does make me sick that we let IU pluck this dude right out of our backyard though...
Man, if only
That's what we get for irrationally overreacting to Cole Beck for 6 years
Hokies with unrealistic expectations?......no way lol
I think next two years will be interesting. He brought over his OKGs from JMU, but can he keep winning in a less fertile ground plucked over by the best of the Big10? Can he convince 4 stars to come or will he be be getting good choice of the 3* guys and will that work. He is very much in the Fuente by Beamer years still and we saw how that worked out.
He'll be aight
Yeah this could be a concern. Even with their strong season last year and how this season has gone, their 26 class has three 4 🌟 and nineteen 3 🌟. Not exactly what you might expect.
But his JMU guys who are #2 in the country weren't high star recruits. Theoretically those 3-4 stars should be upgrades.
Told y'all we couldn't afford him
Throw Banks truck NIL money at the Penn State players, They got some dudes!
That is what SEC does to VT.
Franklin just on Gameday and seems like he's fired up and ready to get revenge on Penn State and go to work. Come on down to Blacksburg!!
Yeah I'm ready for him after that interview.
Probably the easiest place to get back to the playoffs at the moment.
But I'm sure he's taking his time and seeing who else comes open. If Norvell is gone at the end of the year I think he would pick FSU over us.
UF is a hard slog and will have fans calling for his head if he's not in the playoffs winning championships in short order there in Gainsville.
Franklin, come to Blacksburg, dry up PSU's VA recruiting pipeline and watch them wither before you.
VT is really a great set up given the recruiting and staff ties, and if he wants the added bonus of sticking it to Penn State, what better way than to crush them in recruiting?
FSU would certainly be tough competition but I don't think they can afford to fire Norvell this year. UNC would be my biggest fear if it were to open up. If we're interested we need to be moving quickly and lock this up.
I'm a "sell the farm" to get Franklin kinda guy here. This would be a significant statement about VT football.
Fickel has to be gone after another home shutout yeah?
I'll be stunned if he makes it past the end of this season. Not sure if they want to do it before the season ends, but wouldn't blame them at this point either with how much he's run that team into the ground.
Maybe they're waiting for a bye week? it's getting pretty brutal.
I have never understood the hype around Fickell. Yes he did well at Cincinnati, but it's like everyone collectively forgot that he went 6-6 as the interim HC at anOSU after Tressel left. Dude was given one of the best rosters in the B1G at the time and did that. Not to mention that he had never coached outside of the state of Ohio. But people thought him moving back up to the P2 level where he was previously mediocre with a stacked roster on top of coaching at a recruiting wasteland like Wisconsin was supposed to be a recipe for success? I just don't get it.
That was such a weird situation. Vibes were off, team was the media villain. Roger Godell was taking shots at OSU players, throwing out the idea that they should be punished in the draft/after signing. It was a very different time. I don't think it's unexpected for an experienced coach to struggle in that situation, much less an interim.
This is a more interesting observation imo.
EDIT: IDK if you heard Wiscy's AD on Monday, but he basically came out and said "we're keeping Fickle here, and we're finally going to start giving him NIL money, because we haven't yet." Sounds like Fickle got Mike Young'd. Some analysis here.
NIL is probably a better use of money than lighting it on fire as a buy out.
True, if you have a coach that can, you know, coach.
If we do end up hiring Shane, man there's going to be some serious mental gymnastics to hype the fan base up on a coach who conceivably could only win one more game this year. I know the schedule is absolutely brutal, but they look pretty listless in these losses, especially today. The offense is brutal to watch. I don't think he would have any other serious P4 interest if he's let go from South Carolina at this point, other than VT.
Shane is going to be a very rough sell given all the hype and the budget IMO. I hope we have our sights set higher.
They won't be able to sell me on it. Will just skip football and wait for basketball. Will give me back alot of Fall weekends.
I really wish Bud wasn't on the hiring committee to be honest. He recommended Hamilton which was a disaster, he advocated for Pry which was an unmitigated disaster, and he's been reported to be heavily advocating for Shane this time. And also apparently Mark Stoops is on his list. Is he just naming people he personally likes?
Thanks for all you have done Bud but man, please don't screw this one up for the sake of the fan base.
Probably people he coached with or coached against. I think he thought highly of the gameplan Stoops installed in the 2019 bowl game.
Also, makes you wondering what his hiring would have been like if he was an HC.
Yeah, I just don't see how hiring him right now is a wise move. It looks like the wheels are coming off at SC, there are a number of other coaches that I feel would be a better get right now, jumping to him feels foolish.
Maybe if the carousel gets even crazier and we are still looking for a guy in late December, I could see if getting there, but going after him now. I'm a little worried of that is the push from the committee at this point (compared to just an idea among many)
List of candidates I want to be considered: Franklin, Kingsberry, Mullen, the USF guy, Kiffen (I have it on good authority that the athletic department is sniffing around Kiffen but they know its a long shot)...and a few others (Indiana and Georgia's DC, Brian Hartline, JMU's coach who's name alludes me, sorry I'm 11 beers deep).
I'd take Jerry Kill in a heartbeat as Football GM / Associate Athletic Director / Fuck you Whit stop fucking with the football program you fuck, I'll take care of it CEO.
Shane hasn't proven anything outside of identifying good coaches to work for. It's not hard to convince Caleb Williams to play for Lincoln Riley, it's not hard to convince VA kids to spurn VT and UVa to play for the northernmost SEC school. He hasn't accomplished anything in the SEC outside of exceeding modest expectations.
I'd be upset but would stomach it if Shane became the HC. I would actively vomit if it was Vick and would probably quit my fandom. I would also vomit if the fucktards in Merryman hire someone because he's a good ole boy from Lexington and he makes the alumni feel warm and happy before getting curbstomped by a regional G5 program that doesn't even have a fucking working elevator in their coach's box.
Hire a real fucking coach this time around, that's all I ask. Fuente sucked but at least the logic was sound, especially coupled with keeping Bud. Don't hire someone because he speaks with a southern twang and thanks the fans for showing up after every losing press conference.
I'd take Sheldon fucking Cooper as head coach if it guaranteed us 10+ wins and legit playoff contention. Stop with the personality nonsense, give me an X's and O's nerd all day.
Rant over, sorry I don't remember what post I'm responding to but hopefully this was helpful.
Sheldon does know football
I want Bob Chesney. Absolutely hammered odu today and that's what I want VT to do
We play JMU next year so maybe he could help us out in that game too. But if we are hiring him, that means we missed out on a bunch of other coaches. Hopefully, we are aiming a lot higher than him and get a much better and more proven coach than him.
I would bet $100 that Bob Chesney is a better coach than whoever we end up hiring. If we don't hire him, I'll be shocked if we are even competitive in the game vs jmu next year
I'm so afraid that Chesney just took over a jugernaut. We need someone who can drive investment in the program AND coach ball.
It's a valid concern. I think VT is in a position where we have to take a risk on a young up and comer, though. It's going to be a very competitive market with some big time openings. I don't belive VT has what it takes to "big dog" anyone. We're not going to be able to get the splash hire of the season and we're going to have to take a risk on a guy with high upside. A coach like Chesney where maybe other programs have the same reservations you have may be available to VT. All coaches come with risks. I'd rather risk it with a young up and comer than pay out the wazoo for a "known" quantity who may not work out here
Honestly not sure we can big dog JMU here ...why would he come down to Blacksburg? He is setup for success and has a committed Athletic Department behind him there. He couldn't feel that good about that here.
Well we can 6x his salary for starters
Chesney is the only G5 guy I'd be pleased with (Mullen doesn't count). Sumrall, Golesh, Huff, Silverfield, etc. are all very meh to me, but Chesney is a winner and he could possibly be the next Leipold or Cig. I still have massive concerns about him, but I'd pick him over those other guys.
This is what I'm coming around to. Like his personality or not, I think Franklin is our home run hire.
Chesney would be in my top 4 with Mullen/Huff (not sure what order). The guy just wins and has consistently done so for many years - stepping up a level every time. With that track record, my guess is that he really hates to lose and we really need some of that in Blacksburg.
Those other guys might have really high ceilings, but VT can't afford a "might" right now. We have 3 years to get back to relevance which doesn't allow for this hire to be a mistake.
Obviously, nothing is guaranteed, but VT has to go with someone who has a long history of winning in order to have the best chance.
I think Mullen, Franklin, and Stoops are the three home runs. Matt Campbell isn't coming here, neither is Drink or Leipold.
Some reporting that discussions are happening on Norvell's future today. Sounds like an opening at FSU could possibly be imminent. Still not sure they can afford the buyout this year, but he's pretty much lost the team at this point and there's not much sense in hanging on another year.
Shaping up to be a horrific year to be at rock bottom and in a coaching search. Thanks Whit/Sands!
Their only two wins against FBS teams since getting screwed out of the playoff are Cal and Alabama. What a wild and confusing stat.
Add UF to the job list, Napier is OUT
Napier out in Florida
Not to Pat myself on the back here, but I was very skeptical of Napier.
When he was hired at Florida his initial Press Conference was completely uninspiring. It was largely mush-mouth, word salad where he couldn't make a salient point other than he was going to bring a "Bama-like" organization to Florida.
Well that never really happened and turns out the world found out what Dabo already did...Billy isn't all that good as an O.C.
Also, I suspect the timing is quite meaningful-- I think the Gators have someone in mind already that they want to pursue aggressively, I suspect it's Franklin. There has been some rumor around the past 24 hours that Sumrall is who they want, but I doubt they go to the G5 route again after Napier.
They've gone every route imaginable since Meyer.
Just goes to show there's not a formula for guaranteed success, although there are multiple formulas for failure.
Days after they announce a 400 million renovation of the Swamp.
Somehow need to convince Franklin its a better path with a more realistic fan base in Blacksburg than Gainesville.
Yeah, but his great grandkids will be set for life after he is fired from Florida. His kids and grandkids are already set from being fired at Penn State.
Colorado State just fired the other Norvell
FSU fans are like "No! Wrong Norvell!"
Room temperature take: this coaching cycle wasn't a good one to be searching for a good coach. We're likely going to over pay for someone or not get our first 5 choices. No injection of money lets us compete with multiple SEC openings, a top B1G opening, and likely possibly FSU. not counting other ACC schools who likely get their coaches poached. It's very hard to be positive about the future of this program after what's happened the past decade.
Meh I think you're overreacting a little bit
You're not wrong, and I buy the argument that we should've moved on from pry faster.
But I'm not sure I buy the argument that the next guy is less likely to be a success because there's more competition in the market; I just think that it's so hard to predict the success of a coach, that I'm not sure if it really matters when you go to market. I thought Justin Fuente to Virginia Tech was going to be an amazing success. I thought Lincoln Reilly to USC was going to be amazing success. I thought promoting Ryan Day was lazy and uninspired. I thought Luke Fickle to Wisconsin was a great hire.
I also think that the Blue Bloods shop at a different store than Virginia Tech does. That doesn't mean what they do doesn't affect us: if Penn State hires Fran Brown, then we are competing with Syracuse. But Fran Brown is not leaving Syracuse for Virginia Tech. So I don't think it really matters how many Blue Bloods enter the market this year.
Two years ago, we saw 6 of the 15 most prestigious programs replace head coaches. And it had zero impact on us.
My concerns on the future of the program have very little to do with the coaching market and significantly more to do with our boosters, our administrators, our conference, the state VA HS football, etc.
That's exactly the problem. Is the domino effect, there's a lot more of a rift than last year with some big name spots open. Not competing in that market but they're pulling from a pool that will compete with us
Honestly I don't think there is ever a good cycle to hire. Especially if you fired a coach. There is a very low hit rate on coaches that stay for more than 5 years. It's why PSU was stupid to fired Franklin and Dabo isn't on the hot seat. How many of the p4 coaches would you really want at VT? Who in the ACC who you even want? Brown, key and? Who in the Big 12? The guy at ASU and ?. Who in the big 10? Probably Day, and Lanning but neither have had an average roster in their career. Cig is a yes, and Beliema is doing well but last time he left the big10 it wasn't good and the Fleck is solid but 8-5 is really good for minny so maybe not. There are only 10-15 p4 coaches that wouldn't be major question marks for the program. It's never a good time to hire a coach most will fail.
Valid take there's never a good time to fire a coach and most of it is luck. Any logical thinking wouldn't have PSU and Florida looking for a coach and Clemson and FSU on the hot seat. It's certainly a luck of the draw but I feel like the roll down of some of the bigger names is going to really impact our search.
I agree that having UF open again, and PSU and FSU hurt but at the same time, Napier wasn't going to fix VT so who cares who Florida picks. FSU hired Willie Taggart and a man who did well following Justin Fuente. I'm not sure they will make a good choice that impacts us. PSU might get some one that is terrible recruiting NoVa so that could be a plus. Who knows what's going to happen. Those programs have just as many issues when trying to find a coach as we have and they don't have a great track record.
With the way that Florida and Franklin both recruit, I can see him there without any problem. Florida fans are delusional enough to believe that their talent level would let Franklin win those big games.
I think Franklin would be an excellent fit at Florida.
I could also see Florida being delusional enough to pass on him thinking they will get someone better.
I anticipate Florida passing on him because he has a history of not winning vs. top 5. They want a Natty.
If we have people balking because of that.....
I second this. FSU, Florida, and Auburn will all likely pass on Franklin because of his perceived ceiling.
Wisconsin and FSU both just kicked the can to the end of the season on their head coaches. It will be interesting to see how those two ultimately shake out.
I bet they both reached out to Franklin and he said thanks but no thanks, or at least indicated it wouldn't be a sure thing.
believe I read that getting rid of Norvell and his staff right now will be around 100 mil.
oof
Live look at every athletic dept in CFB this year
Those huge $$ extensions after one great year will really get after you.
Norvell is looking more and more like Chizik or Orgeron at this point. Just a guy in the right place at the right time vs. a real program builder.
I didn't read much beyond the headline, but yeah I saw that same number. The $56M+ to get rid of Norvell, I think not including his staff, and then the costs of bringing in a brand new staff on top of the buyout
FSU isn't a rich program either, they have a good amount of budget but they aren't Bama, A&M, etc
One thing that's going to be really interesting to watch at the University of Florida is how the general manager plays.
Last year they hired a general manager with NFL, front office experience, and he's still on staff... For now.
If Florida hires a new coach and chooses to keep this guy on, then I will believe that the 'NFL model' could happen in college.
But, if the new coach comes in, and brings his own guy with him, then that signals to me that the head coach is still calling the shots, is still the face of the program, and the "general manager" will continue to report (be it formally or informally) to the coach
I'm finally catching up on this and I'm genuinely pleased on the balanced takes on Franklin. I thought the years of PSU under Franklin hatred, the whole Pry situation, and the Big Game James narrative would result in this board having gut reactions like the anti-Shane stuff during our game against SCAR. Franklin would be an excellent hire here, but he's still behind Mullen on my list.
SI just putting out straight nonsense now. They published Ai nonsense suggesting Jay Norvell as our next head coach. Couldnt even Ai spelling Colorado correctly. 🙄
18-26 in the Mountain West over 4 years. No thanks. Also 62 years old.
Maybe if he was paying us 3 million a year and we have 9 million for OC and DC.
SI has been an AI factory for years now. They're straight up garbage.
Such a sad fall off from when I was growing up.
SI is never a reliable source for pretty much anything.
Its the Food Jinx
Southern Living Article
In the latest Best Food on Campus, the Hokies finished #2....to UCLA.
Firing P4 Coaches in Order.
We make coaches fat and happy
LSU in talks to part ways with Brian Kelly. Couldn't happen to a ______ guy.
K I l l e r ?
I will be waiting for "The argument for Brian Kelly" post... /s
I've honestly thought of this one (and have been weeks). He'd get us back to winning regularly. And honestly, I think he would thrive at a school of Virginia tech's level.
I hate that guy so much though. For the most part, I don't care about a coaches personality (I think they're all more/less slime balls and have trouble getting upset about James Franklin, lane Kiffin, etc being themselves) but there's a small handful of coaches I want nowhere near Virginia Tech, even if they could win a national title. BK is one of the 5
Yeah, I'm willing to hear the case for most of these guys understanding what they can do for the progrum, but Kelly is a hard no go for me. Like the assiest of ass clowns.
To add to my original comment, he'll throw every single person in the building, on campus, in the state, and in the country under the bus and still won't take accountability for himself after he's blamed every other possible person.
Yep, he'll let them take the fall. Right off the scissor lift
I don't think Kelly has Franklin or Mullen's ceiling. He's also 11 years older than both those guys (both 53). He's not on Freeze level of I don't want him anywhere near the program. But I think the upside isn't there anymore.
I'm not interested in him at all because he killed a kid.
Well... Brian Kelly just got fired. So...here we go...
And VT falls further in the openings power rankings.
Le sigh.
Who wouldn't want to land softly on a sweet buyout for going 34-14 while starting the season 5-3!?!
I feel like both Franklin and Kelly had such short leashes in part because they are just generally unlikable people.
Yes, both fell short of (probably insane) expectations but its always easier to can someone who is also an unrelenting assbag.
Yes to both points. LSU is NOT a bad team by any means. They are 5-3 after losing to the 13th, 17th, and 3rd ranked teams in the country. Those first two were a couple plays away from being a win. I don't care much for Kelly, but FFS they've lost two really close games to ranked opponents. How in the f*%# did we get to this point in college football that a string of losses (and I won't even call them bad) results in a coach getting canned with a massive buyout because the expectation is national-championship-or-bust???
Yeah, but there's also larger backstories to both. We know with Franklin. But the expectations at LSU are, realistically, bigger. The most Kelly has to show for his 3.5 seasons with a Heisman winner who's tearing it up in the NFL, and a QB that will likely be a first round pick is a single SEC Championship game appearance. I'm in the camp that Kelly has underachieved, although I think firing him now isn't a great move.
Agree with above, that decision likely made faster when the coach in question is unlikeable or at least has worn out his welcome.
What's the backstory on Kelly? I don't remember one other than he's a douche and he got a kid killed in practice.
Does there need to be more than this?
I can tolerate some amount of douchebaggery from my HC if he's winning. But Kelly is just on another level. The way he lights into players on the sideline goes too far.
Off the top of my head:
Ignoring everything off the field:
also, his super fake and super cringy southern accent that magically appeared out of nowhere when he was announced as the LSU head coach. Saw a clip of him talking to fans in their basketball arena (I think) and it was really weird to hear him talk with such an affected southern drawl.
That whole dancing spotlight recruiting video was pretty cringe as well.
oh absolutely, it was weird AF
Les Miles was fired after a 2-2 start after going 114 - 34 at LSU. That's 82%.
Kelly is the first LSzuv coach the century to not win a national championship.
Saban was 73%, Orgeron was 69% with cobud and 73% without. Brian Kelly is 70% so below everyone.
Les also had a bunch of behind the scenes stuff too, I'm pretty sure
Every LSU coach since 2000 has won a Natty in their first 4 years at the program. This was Kelly's 4th year.
Every season, BK's LSU team has gotten (marginally) worse, with a ceiling at 10 wins.
The standard is the standard. And the standard at LSU is win a Natty within 4 years. Coach O did it, Les Miles did it, Nick Saban did it.
Latest update that has me laughing on LSU.
1st Offer LSU turns to Kelly and says we will pay you 25 million tomorrow one check if you want as a settlement. Response you owe me 54 million divided evenly in monthly payments until 2031.
2nd Offer. They say we will pay you 25 million tomorrow and strike the offset clause from your contract.
Response you owe me 54 million divided evenly in monthly payments until 2031.
3rd offer. We will pay you 30 million in two payment over the next two years and strike the offset clause.
Response you owe me 54 million divided evenly in monthly payments until 2031. If you make another offer to settle, you will be hearing from my attorney's.
What? You will be hearing from my attorney's....attorney? 😏
I hate to agree with Brian Kelly but if you fire me you're paying me every single dollar I am owed.
Exactly. If they didn't want to pay the money, they shouldn't have fired him or agreed to the contract originally.
The Governor is still mad about the old AD signing that contract.
I'm not familiar with Louisiana politics beyond what I've read about Huey Long, but I feel like this can't be a smart battle to pick in Louisiana. I just don't get the impression that the LA voting population is upset by the high costs of college sports...
Lol, the latest this morning is that the AD didn't actually fire Kelly because he couldn't without approval. Now they are working to fire him for cause so they don't have to pay because he wasn't doing his job after being relieved of his duties by the old AD. Good old LSU for crazy headlines.
If so, why were they offering him a lower settlement if he had been fired for cause?
sounds like a bloody mess. I love it for them
This is a sitcom plot. Getting Frasier or Murphy Brown vibes here
Edit: forgot about the Seinfeld episode
This 'bout to get stickier than a bowl of day old gumbo, I guarantee!
That day-old okra will get after ya.
Now I want to know what "don't eat the dead ones" means.
If the crabs are dead, don't put them in the pot.
Applies to all shellfish, but I'm guessing that Justin Wilson was referring to crawfish since he specified Louisiana.
Lotsa blue crab come outta Louisiana.
probably blue waffles too...
*Disclaimer- NSFW
You definitely don't want to eat those.
Not even with Franks RedHot? It's made for anything.
I thought I had scrubbed that from my memory
It lives on in infamy
Blues Crab would be a good name for a LA based band with that certain influence.
If the mussel, steamer, or clam doesn't open when cooking don't eat it either.
Florida focused on Lane Kiffin or Eli Drinkwitz as primary with Jedd Fisch as the other candidate. Fisch is head coach at Washington. They are 6-2 after beating #23 Illinois this weekend.
If Ole Miss keeps winning going to be a hard sell getting Kiffin out of there. Drinkwitz has Missouri on the edge of CFP again this season.
I don't see Kiffin leaving Ole Miss unless it's for Alabama. He seems like a perfect fit for Ole Miss and looks like he's happy there. He's winning so no real reason to leave esp for Florida.
between florida and lsu negotiations, and ole miss trying to keep him...kiffin is gonna make 15+ mill next year
Lol Sumrall to LSU? Short trip from Tulane
I think so
Supposedly the lsu boosters think they're too far above Tulane to hire someone from there.
Boosters are often commended for their self-awareness and level-headed thinking.
Idk who goes there right now. Considering what we saw with Cignetti, movement across P2 seems limited, and they have the same issue of Penn State - who are you actually excited about? They're also competing with PSU and Florida, possibly Auburn and some others. You're not poaching Brian Kelly again. I just think that Sumrall is who they're gonna land on unless one of the other big fish land him first.
👀
🧐
Something happening this week.
If Brian Kelly came to VT to coach, I think he would kill it.
I don't want Brian Kelly killing anything or anyone at VT.
Should I have put /s next to my comment to make the pun more obvious?
No. It was perfect the way it was.
Insane numbers
If the NCAA/schools are gonna beg for federal government help in "saving" college sports, they need to quit giving out asinine buyouts/contracts to head coaches.
Stupid that players are supposedly getting paid exponentially more, but the coaches pay is going up just as much if not more.
One could argue Jimmy Sexton is just as bad for college sports as NIL. He has a pseudo monopoly on suppossed top tier coaches.
And I'm not a fan of the annual free agency either, but the coaches winning the lottery for sucking at their jobs is so stupid.
Here's the rub though, the Free-for-All Transfer Portal has actually only made coaches more valuable, probably exponentially so.
When you are hiring a coach, you're not just bringing them in, you are trying to rebuild your Program from the ground-up as fast as possible. You're hiring the coach not just for what they can bring but equally for who they can bring.
Yes, Jimmy Sexton and the 2 other agents that represent 80% of P4 coaches are a big part of the problem but the lack of any restriction on player movement and eligibility extensions that defy logic are equally responsible.
If players want to get paid more, there needs to be some form of contractual obligation to stay at a Program longer than until the next Portal window opens. No one is going to compensate someone maximally that can leave 4 months later.
An elite Coach in College football has become similar to an elite QB in the NFL now...you either have one or you don't. And in such a high-stakes scenario, Programs are going to overpay and agree to ridiculous buyouts, much like NFL teams overpay QBs coming of their Rookie Contracts---see Lawrence, Trevor and Murray, Kyler --neither one of them are $50 mil QBs, but they also aren't Carson Wentz or Justin Fields either.
Fair point. I guess my larger point is if you are going to try and restrict player movement for the good of college sports you need to make the schools themselves more accountable for giving out stupid contractsbrute crying poor.
Could also argue that similar to the program being bigger than players, some are bigger than the coach too. IU should pay Cignetti, but did LSU really need to pay Kelly when they've won a national title with Saban (Elite), Miles and Orgeron already?
Agreed.
Schools absolutely bear part of the responsibility for this as well.
And the crying like they are the victims is laughable..kind of like when they lobbied the NCAA to forbid the "visit photoshoots" that were happening after they had gotten over-the-top ridiculous--speaking of Brian Kelly, his video was top-level cringe.
https://youtube.com/shorts/mbGbSeUSJc8?si=zTwxJrhTdB25VX-M
It's a contract. Did LSU need to give a 10 year contract worth $100M in order to hire Kelly? We'll never know the negotiation that went on, but ultimately that was his asking price to take the job.
And because of the buyout, LSU does not have to pay the full $70M left on his contract amount. The buyout clause also stipulates LSU can pay over a longer period of time and is mitigated if he takes another job
The buyout is the alternative to paying out a guaranteed contract. Buyouts are cheaper, have better payout provisions, and often include mitigation (e.g, if get a another job, payout decreases based on new salary). Texas A&M paid out a guaranteed contract to Jimbo Fisher with no mitigation, which is why that one was asinine.
Instead of a guaranteed contract or a buyout clause, you can make the contract at-will. At-will is not an option at a P4 school. The only real way to bring down the buyout amount is to make the contract shorter.
The major driving forces for ridiculous contract lengths are competition between schools, dumbass boosters, extensions to stay at a school after 1 good season, and good representation for the coaches.
Additional Comment Edit: It's notable that both Kelly and Franklin have a "duty to mitigate" clause within their buyout clause that stipulate they are to seek employment in good faith to mitigate costs. Generally, that's a requirement that includes two good faith requirements: (1) they seek out employment in good faith, and (2) that employment compensate them at their value in good faith. Neither have the opportunity like Jimbo Fisher or Fuente to just take a break for a few years and relax. And neither can take a low-paying job without seeking a job with comparable compensation. So, both PSU and LSU probably will only be on the hook for about $10M or so after it all shakes out.
No criticism for the NFL then? They already have their Anti-Trust exemption yet they are paying coaches even more than the NCAA and they have guaranteed contracts so when they fire a coach it's a full payout. Only area the NFL does better is in terms of the lengths of their contracts. NFL is normally four to five years versus the seven or eight. They also don't have many that get rolling contracts
You could easily argue that being a college P4 coach is harder and definitely more time consuming than an NFL head coach.
Andy Reid is making $20M a season. Sean Payton $18M. Mike Tomlin $16M. You do have a few that are making less than $5M a season though.
The other area that makes it possible for the coaching salaries to be so high in college is the quantity of jobs. NFL has 32 gigs. P4 has 67 jobs + Notre Dame. Any given cycle there are about 15-20 of these jobs open but as we have discussed in depth on here, only about 5 or so top candidates available. Supply and demand favors the coaches in almost every cycle.
Most schools aren't crying poor, they are frustrated that there are basically no rules around compensation. NFL players movements are restricted but they have contracts. NCAA can't have actual pay for play contracts until they have the Anti-Trust exemption so then you now have mid-season portal entries, coaches are now in the cycle of recruiting high school, recruiting your existing roster every offseason, recruiting the portal to try to replace who left, managing NIL, managing revenue sharing, and while all that is going on still you know....COACH.
I'm not clear on why the NFL deserves criticism for paying their coaches high numbers. The NFL makes more money and doesn't get it by charging college students Athletic Fees
Kiffin has reportedly received an offer from Florida. Reportedly $81M.
4 years or 8? big difference.
Haven't seen a years involved but have to assume it's significantly above the $8-$9M a year Ole Miss is paying. My guess would be 6 years at $13.5M
Scrolling on instagram, I saw that UF was willing to make him the highest paid coach (annual basis) at 13ish per year?
Side note: This is why I don't think the extra fundraising is going to propel VT into the upper echelon of football/athletics spending. The arms race hasn't stopped
the arms race won't stop until there's a big bubble burst or some other major event that precipitates large scale reforms in the sport. I'm not sure when (if?) that will happen but that's what it will take to slow (stop?, change?) the arms race. Until then, I'd expect it to continue on this wild path. We're not that far from coaches of top teams making $20+ million and players that start on that team making between $1-3 million
what will be interesting to watch is how many teams those types of figures will take out of the running altogether. We're heading for an eventuality where there are only 4 to 8 teams that will ever make it to the top of the mountain, IMO. I'd expect that when that happens, the sport will grow stale and interest will plummet. We shall see.
I think in the next 5 years we'll see a shift towards players making more than coaches. Everyone agrees that "Jimmy's and Joe's matter more than Xs and Os" but no one putting their money behind it that way. That is what will change iMO.
Edit: not individual players making more than an HC; rather whole rosters making more than entire staffs
In the Transfer Portal era it will always make sense to maximize compensation to a successful coach versus a player.
The lack of any restriction on transfer rules has marginalized the value of a player.
Why would any organization increase compensation for an employee who is essentially a "temp" versus an employee that's under contract and can be controlled?
That makes no economic sense
Texas tech is doing this right now. Putting all the chips in for this year.
I think it's highly unlikely that players will get paid more than coaches in college football within the next 5 years. As long as they have free reign to move from school to school on a whim the amount they can be paid will be limited by basic economics. You may be right that Xs and Os are less impactful than Jimmys and Joes but coaches have to get those Jimmys and Joes. The coach will still retain more value than individual players and will continue to be compensated thusly.
Your edit makes much more sense. And we're already there aren't we? Now that schools have 20million to spend on nil that's essentially what you're talking about, right? I can't think of a single coach making anywhere close to 20million right now.
But coaches can just pay for players... the coach doesn't have to be special to land the player?
Eh. You have a point and maybe it wasnt a great example but coaching matters. You can have elite talent but poor coaching (Lsu, loll) and still not win. It's much harder to win with elite coaching if you just don't have the horses to race with. But to win a championship you have to have both elite players and elite coaches. OSU, Georgia, Bama don't win nattys without Day, Kirby, Saban.
To this point--there are 3 active coaches with National Championships.
Day, Smart and Swinney.
Coaching matters tremendously.
Many players are very loyal to their coaches.
Hiring a coach instantly gives a Program the inside track to at least some of the players they have coached or are recruiting.
Cignetti brought a huge amount of his players to JMU, Kill and Beck brought Vandys 2 best players from NMSU, ect.
This is also true in non-rev Sports...Kentucky went from a nobody in WBB to a tourney team by taking Brooks and half of our Roster.
The best coaches (and Staffs) also tend to be the best at holding Programs together and keep impactful players out of the Portal.
Like it or not, there is huge value in that.
In their quest to have no rules at all, players are actually probably undercutting their own value by being "forever free agents".
Intelligent Athletic Departments (i.e. not VT) have and will maintain CFO types and add assistants to scrutinize where money is going much like NFL teams have cap specialists. They won't be in the business of giving out more money as time goes along--at least not without some regulation or terms regarding "service time" for compensation.
Franklin and his two coordinators were making ~$15m/year combined. That doesn't include position coaches, support staff, etc. players were probably make ~$18m total. The downfall of that team was probably qb.
The downfall of that team was much more the offensive line. Allar was completing 65% of his passes. The line though forced him to use his safety option frequently. It was more obvious with Grunkemeyer at QB last week. He was running for his life all game because the line regularly failed to pick up blitzers. Led to at least one of his two picks.
Allar's injury was directly from the line failing to protect as well.
Allar in 23 and 24 had 49 TDs to 10 INTs with almost 6000 passing yards. He just had no time this year to get the ball downfield.
I think we are already pretty close to that point already. The 12 team CFP is largely pointless, the bottom 8 teams aren't really in the same league as the top 4. Even when there were only 4 teams, most years only 2 or 3 really felt like they belonged.
But you are right, the people that thought that NIL was going to somehow lead to some sort of equilibrium in the sport missed the mark entirely. The Media/TV conglomerates are the money men in CFP and they are never, ever going to share money willingly with 18-22 (or now 18-28) year-olds. It won't happen.
Schools are going to continue to pay absurd contracts to coaches and build absurdly expensive facilities because they are at least a constant factor that can be controlled in a world where any player can leave at any time for any reason at all.
I didn't think the NIL push was ever about forcing equilibrium in the sport. I thought the whole point was to make paying players above board.
Either way, I think it has sort of done two things that are seemingly contradictory. It has simultaneously strengthened the buying power of the haves while also weakening the depth of the haves. The top teams are now able to buy the best players and field the most star studded teams but it's also preventing them from amassing incredible depth talent on their rosters. Sure Georgia can buy the best QB in the nation but they won't get the top 3. Those other QBs, if they're not going to start at Georgia, will take a big paycheck to start for Kentucky.
It's stratifying college football more than it ever has been and also creating parity at the top. Funny dynamics.
Also destroys a season when QB or other key player goes down. Just ask Syracuse.
Yeah, it is basically impossible to develop and hold on to a backup QB in this model. Nobody talented enough to play the position at a high level will stay in a #2 slot:
Florida is dumb. Likely a 1 year deal.
LSU fired their Offensive Coordinator today too
Its hilarious because the reporting is that Kelly, after famously not bringing like any of his coaches to LSU from notre dame, got fired because Woodward wanted him to fire his OC and Kelly refused and threatened to fire even more assistants if he was forced to do so, they argued, and then Woodward fired his ass AND still fired the OC.
Congrats, BK, you played yourself.
In his defense, Kelly is laughing all the way to the bank. He could retire (and might) with what LSU is paying him to go away.
Oh I agree completely, and it's probably why he felt comfortable doubling down on not wanting to fire his OC. It's just funny to me because the response was "ok, then you're both fired"
Kelly was in a no loss situation and might have come out ahead. He can walk away with all the money, no stress, etc.
Congrats to Scott Woodward for being responsible for the 2 largest buyouts in CFB history
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/46796791/smu-rhett-lash...
They don't call it Southern Millionaires University for nothing
So did Dabo just get his name added to the list of coaches fired in 2025?
Doubt it.
There's a zero percent chance
Crazier things have happened but Dabo is 111-30 in ACC play. This season is like 15% of his total ACC losses.
He is 183-52 overall. This will be only 3rd season with fewer than 9 wins in 18 years.
Here's an interesting Idea:
-Clemson clearly needs a new identity on Offense and Dabo's best years appear to be behind him.
Clemson re-hires Tony Elliot in as O.C. and Head Coach in-waiting. Gives Dabo a couple years to "retire" on his own terms.
I know that Elliot has essentially had one successful year as a H.C. and I doubt Dabo could ever put his ego aside enough to allow this, but it would also put UVA in a tailspin, which would be a nice side benefit.
Tony Elliot is a bad OC, so it's a double side benefit because Clemson's offense would continue to suck
As absolutely crazy as PSU firing Franklin was, Clemson firing Dabo after all their success and two natties with just one truly bad season would be nuts.
I don't think it will happen, but I do think that he may end up shooting himself in the foot (or retiring) based on the fact that he has been slow to adapt to new college world when it comes to NIL and transfers. It's one of those things of if Clemson starts getting jittery that he is too entrenched in the way he did things and not in the way he'll need to do things, it could be another relatively sudden departure.
Coach Prime done too?
A week after a historically bad loss to Utah, he is down 38-7 to Arizona.....at Half.
I doubt they fire him, but with his health problems and lack of success, does he throw in the towel?
Rumor has it Auburn is entering the coaching carousel this afternoon
Seems like all signs pointing to Hugh Freeze out at Auburn, though not official yet. Hope that doesn't impact our own coaching search
It'll draw it out because now Franklin is going to hold out to hear if they want him before answering us.
Jimmy Sexton is going to milk every last second to try to get more for Franklin. That's both of their MO's. Franklin got more and more continually from PSU. I guess they finally felt like they had given more than they were getting out of it with him, but VT would give anything to have had the success of PSU the last 10 years.
We are going to pay top dollar for Franklin if we can close this deal. And honestly I'm kind of glad the VT admin and donors are waking up and realizing what kind of financial commitment needs to be made if we want to compete at the top levels of the sport. There's probably a point where we don't/can't go any further, but this is the new reality if we want to be competitive. Throw out the cheap playbook.
Let's be realistic here. If Franklin hasn't been announced yet he won't be. Not for Tech. That rumor has run it's course. We ain't getting him.
I feel like this is probably overcorrecting to too pessimistic in response to "Theres a rumor, were definitely getting him"
All of this speculation and forum frenzy has no impact on the discussions between agents, the committee, coaches and ADs. They exist in different universes.
We may not get him, but all the rumors and posts have essentially no impact on if we do or not
If he's not announced in the next couple of days, then yes I say it's time to move on.
This is probably the most pivotal few days in VT football history since Frank almost went to UNC in 2000. About to find out what VT is made of. Still think we have good other interested options if this falls through, but damnit we are going for the moon.
Why are we in THAT much of a hurry? Who else is there RIGHT NOW? If it goes another week or two and then happens, who did we miss on? It shortens his time to recruit/portal prep/staff alignment a bit but honestly it's a month before any sitting coaches MIGHT switch jobs.
If we are getting strung along by Sexton then we have to at some point soon go to other options. We can't wait on Franklin the next 3 weeks and let all other leads go cold. I'm hopeful we are creating some leverage of our own with a shit or get off the pot mentality.
Have heard some rumblings that some of the delay is some behind the scenes vetting/recruiting by Franklin's camp to see who all will follow him to VT. So there's some time but it's not unlimited IMO.
Also I will say this - I'm thankful Whit is not in the drivers seat for this one. I don't know but my hunch and from knowing the situation and putting 2 and 2 together, I'm willing to bet John Rocovich himself is leading this negotiation. That dude is a true mover and a shaker and quite possibly the best rep VT could have right now. A distinguished attorney who has negotiated probably hundreds or thousands of deals. Who has also personally flown governors into Blacksburg before because he's a pilot. His son in law is a Congressman (I'm on a first name basis with Ben when I see him.) He was also a class act enough to have a personal convo/interview with my wife as she was graduating law school to give career advice and input. Class act.
If Rocovich is going toe to toe against Sexton I like this.
We can walk and chew gum at the same time
The second half vs Louisville suggests otherwise, but you're right that there's no way we've put everybody else on hold waiting for Franklin.
I think it's less about him getting started, and more about the fact that if he's not ready to sign w/ VT now, there's nothing that's going to sweeten the pot for him. If he's waiting to see what else opens, he's not convinced Tech is for him. Which is fine. We just need to move on sooner rather than later.
I agree it shouldn't go on forever but seeing so many people with the Monday or Else is bad vibes. All involved are working on millions of dollars and the future of Hokies football. Let them get it done on their timeline.
I'm with you on this one. Franklin is the only desirable candidate who we could possibly land right now.
Every other desirable candidate is not going to be available for three weeks or more. Why not just continue working with Franklin, WHILE ALSO continuing to negotiating with other candidates at the same time?
No coach is going to sign a deal now anyways. Bob Chesney is not signing a deal tomorrow, Charles Huff is not signing a deal tomorrow, Dan Mullen is not signing a deal tomorrow, Manny Diaz is not signing a deal tomorrow... Literally no other coach on our radar is going to sign a deal tomorrow unless they are currently unemployed.
100%. It would be best if Franklin wants VT as much as VT wants Franklin. Could you imagine if he pulled a Manny Diaz 17-days-at-Temple kind of move because he accepted and then bounced because a "better" position opened? Let the process run its course, but decide when other offers will be going out.
Only if he buyout to leave kicks in and is more than we have paid him. I would put in a clause he owes up 5-10 million if he leaves before Feb 1, 2026 and the amount decreases 1 million per year after that.
Needs to be higher than 1 million, but yes, much higher buyout if he leaves before the start of next season that drops to a normal market amount
I'd disagree with that. One thing, for example, that would clearly sweeten the VT pot for him is being told Auburn and LSU aren't interested in him.
He gone
Thawing from the Freeze and soon will be Summer All over Auburn.
For those of you not upvoting this, please read it out loud
On paper, Auburn is a great job....in actuality it is a terrible job for anything other than $$$.
Second fiddle in your State, and probably 5th-6th in the SEC. Despite that, the expectations are utterly insane.
Add a megadonor who wants to run the show and an Administration with a hair-trigger to fire Coaches, I just don't see why a Coach with other options that are even nearly as good would go to AU.
For 5 million reasons per year of course...
Come for the pay, stay for the buyout.
Sure, College football coach is a hard job, but it is definitely winning the lottery.
This is certainly an opinion....
Auburn is undeniably a top 15 job the country. 5th best program in the SEC means you'll be in the 12 team playoff every 3rd year at worst if your competent.
Nick Saban had so much success at bama for so long that people forget how even that rivalry was. Pre-saban (who went 12-5 in iron bowls), bama led that rivalry 39-32.
Which is why Franklin isn't the top of their list. The top tier of the SEC thinks they can do better. Remember he did just get fired from PSU for not winning the big games. I think that's a crazy mentality because I think Franklin is a really good coach, but an SEC school like Auburn isn't going to like the narrative that they hired the guy that PSU just let go. Same with LSU and UF.
If anything the official Auburn opening is just a last minute excuse for Franklin's agent to try and leverage a bit more money, but it's been known likely for a while that the Auburn job was opening up. So not a surprise to many in the inner circles of CFB.
And you can assume with a lot of confidence that back room conversations with agents have probably been happening for a few weeks now so they're probably very aware of the level of interest if/when the job opened.
They go there for the buyout.
That's unfortunate because it might cause us to miss out on Franklin, and also there's now a possibility we end up with the Hugh Freeze Experience next year
ew, no thank you.
Seems to me that Franklin could have a bigger impact at VT than Auburn, but it may be the O&M colored glasses talking.
Hugh freeze is one of the 3ish coaches I would quit the Hokies over. Art Briles is another.
Is it sad that I hoped their was clean member of the Briles coaching tree? I liked watching his offenses before everything went down.
No one seemed upset about hiring Phil Montgomery for OC.
Not sure if Huepel ever coached with Briles, but they both ran/run version of the Veer and Shoot
If we hire Hugh Freeze, I am done.
I would rather watch Virginia Tech loose 100 games in a row than watch that garbage person represent my school.
100% this
Hugh Freeze and Art Briles are fan base riots coaches, but I think the administration knows that. On top of admin not wanting them because they're poor representatives of the university.
It's not just that they are poor figureheads with baggage; they're both pathological liars who deny blame. Say what you will about Pry, Saban, Kirby, Buzz, Franklin, etc - those guys are a mix of irritating, sometimes incompetent, weirdos, but none of them have done things like DM a sexual assault victim on twitter asking them to calm down. Both of these guys blame other people for their downfalls. It's wild how out of touch those two are with reality.
Not to mention the fact that neither is that innovative any more.
Interesting article from Forde regarding the 2023 Coaching Carousel. 25 coaches hired and by end of this season possibly 50%+ are fired.
https://www.si.com/college-football/forde-yard-dash-vanishing-coaching-c...
Looking at this list, it's really interesting how many of these coaches were destined to fail:
It's also interesting that three of the 'in demand' coaches are at their P4 alma maters (Key, Brohm, Dilingham)... I find it... ironic? that while VT is trying to move away from our history, those three programs are leaning into their past. Not saying it's good or bad, or we should be doing something differently, just interesting.
I gotta say, I really thought Newberry was going to flop at Navy. I'm pretty impressed/surprised with how willing he was to innovate on offense there.
I know you listen to Cover 3, Bud believes Walters was incompetent as a HC similar to the failings of Pry
I don't listen to Cover 3. My podcast rotation is full and I hate everyone except Bud (who is a fucking genius).
But that's interesting about Walters. I thought that was a good hire for Purdue at the time.
Oh, ok, must've misread some other comment from you. I would go listen to Budbot talk about Walters after he was fired. I agree, I thought it was a good hire and he's still a great DC, but he couldn't run a full program.
Part of that is who is in the Beamer coaching tree either as a coach or player? There aren't that many that have had success.
Actually pretty shocking that Wisconsin will keep Luke Fickell, unless they don't like where the market currently stands
You could say the Badgers have found themselves in quite a Fickell Pickle
Maybe Wisconsin is the only level headed group of people in the entire landscape.
These buyouts are ridiculous at best, criminal even. Then, with Jimmy Sexton representing most of the candidates available, the market will be reset this year. It's a tough time to be in the market for a new coach.
Maybe Wisconsin either believes Fickell can get it going at some point or that they can buy some time and make a better hire, with a lower buyout, next year.
I think Wisconsin is one of the schools that actually makes sense to move on. They had the upset over Washington this weekend, but Fickell has kind of tanked that team's hopes more than other coaches. Wiscy firing Fickell makes a lot more sense than both Franklin and Kelly's firings for example. Napier and Pry are somewhat better comparisons to his situation, though I think Pry is probably a level beyond those two based on the O&M glasses, but even without them he was a disaster when it came to gameday.
Fickell hasn't been giving much cash to work with (relative to his conference-mates) - The AD came out and said as much. From CBS/Tom Fornelli
That statement from the AD sounds really familiar to me. Not sure why…
Two names I want to bring up outside the James Franklin conversation
Jake Dickert Wake Forest - He did a great job at Wazzu and is having a great season at Wake
Sean Lewis San Diego St. - currently 7-2 at SDSU, has an exciting offense, went 24-31 at Kent State 19-17 in conference. Since he left Kent State is 1-23
Big fan of both.
although Kent state is 4-6 this year and it's a pretty great story.
Looks like Wikipedia is missing this year's Kent State record
PrimeTime may have just been put on notice at Colorado. The AD is stepping away to take on another role in the Athletic Department.
I feel like one way or another he's done after this season. His health issues alone probably make him step down
Looks like Arkansas is ramping up the search and moving on from the possibility of Franklin
They must really be desperate to be talking to oregeron
Perhaps they are anxious to get their orgy on
Wait, was THAT the announcement????
"James Franklin in early stages of talks to become Virginia Tech Head Coach"
They're talking it up among all the talking heads on Game Day, but no announcement just yet...
Mike Elko reups with Texas A&M for $11.5M a year so another name off the PSU wishlist
Just more proof that if you want a top coach, the going market rate is over $10m per year
Thank goodness. Regardless of who we get, Mike Elko at Penn state would be bad news for us