I just finished watching the 30 For 30 film "The Best That Never Was" about Marcus Dupree, and it made me start to think about guys that played for Virginia Tech that were amazing (or so it seemed), but never could put it all together. Not necessarily an over-hyped recruit (those happen all the time), but a guy that showed the talent in a Hokie uniform. It could be because of an injury, or off the field issues, or something else, but for whatever reason, the guy never panned out. Who is our Best That Never Was?
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Ryan Williams comes to mind...he was a beast for us (despite his apparent weakness when it came to pass-pro per some other thread) and then I believe he tore his ACL in a preseason game with the Cardinals ahead of his rookie year. I don't think he's done anything significant since.
this is all from memory, so if some of my details are off please feel free to correct me.
if we're talking never realized nfl potential, the list is fairly long.
Think he is talking about how they performed as a Hokie?
RW ruptured the patella tendon in his right knee. Basically, without that tendon, you can't raise your lower leg - it just hangs there.
george bell comes to mind. obviously if marcus vick wasnt such a knucklehead he could've been a great one.
Marcus Vick for sureee
George Bell tore at least three of the four ligaments in his knee early in his junior year in high school. We honored our scholarship offer, but unfortunately, he wasn't able to perform at the D1 level. I believe he transferred to a lower level school where he did very well.
Bell was a beast in one of my PS2 NCAA games. Think i even got him a Heisman or two.
Marcus Vick and Branden Ore are two that come to my mind immediately.
Branden Ore is the one for me, kid could've been one of our best. But off the field stuff just derailed it all
My vote as well. He was a BEAST in 2006.
Per ESPN, "Virginia Tech RB Branden Ore has 939 of the Hokies' 1,058 net rushing yards this season (88.8%), making him pretty much a one-man show in the backfield. Ore recorded 203 yards against Clemson to become the first back in Hokies history to have back-to-back 200-yard games." The other game was So Miss.
Against Clemson he outrushed the "Thunder and lighting" duo of Spiller and Davis 203 to 71 - Combined.
I hope to see Juice match and beat those numbers here. If there's anyone who could do it, its him.
what a night that was
Who is that QB?
VT - Glennon
Clemson - Will Proctor
Good Lord Duane Brown is a monster. He looks like an NFL player playing against Middle Schoolers....
this is the game that turned me into a fanatic!
I couldn't speak for three days after this game. Classic.
A couple things about this game:
1. Holy NFL talent
2. All maroon.
3. Stick it in was still alive and well
4. Still gives me chills.
This game may be my favorite outside if the 03 mani game that I've ever been to
I picked a good one for my sole trip to Lane so far, though strangely the thing I most remember about the game is the idiot (because what else can you all someone who questions Bud) sitting near me who was complaining that Foster had the secondary sitting back in a zone instead of being more aggressive.
Idiot would be accurate. The D gave up 7 points...and that was early in the game.
Last time VT beat a top 10 team.
HD just loved herself some C.J. Spiller, and probably still does.
Everyone loved them some C.J. Spiller. Didn't he win basically every ACC award his senior year? It sure seemed like it.
One of my favorite games in Lane!! A Thursday night against Atlantic Division opponent that wasn't BC. Not sure we have had that since. Only other Thursday games I recall are GT.
Ore carried the ball 37 times. I'm not sure we have had a back carry it that many times since. Glennon only threw it 15 times, although the coaches might've let me carry it 37 times if Glennon throwing it was the only other option (I weight 175 lbs).
We played FSU Thursday night in 2012.
Maryland 2008. AKA the Darren Evans show.
Fred Lee, Andre Harrison, Marcus Davis
Davis is playing in the NFL
cant count him out - just yet IMO
As far as him playing at VT...he could have done so much more...should have never been at QB...ever
How about TE?
Sorry. I couldn't resist.
Agreed on Ore and Davis. Davis always seemed to be one of those guys that you thought was going to break out and never really did. The skillset was there. He got injured last year in training camp and is trying to make a comeback this year. I don't know what it is with Hokies getting hurt in the pros but they can't seem to catch a break. Coale, Davis, RMFW all hurt in training camp of their rookie years.
Wow - yes, Andre Harrison - a forgotten Hokie by many.
Cody Journell
Brandon Ore
M Holmes
Drew Harris
some other RBs
Holmes was never an elite talent IMO. His ceiling was maybe a 1000 - 1100 yd season if he stayed here four years as a starting back. Definitely impressive, but not in the DE/RW/DW/Suggs/Jones level. (Yes I know Suggs/Jones did put up the same stats as the first three, but they split carries).
different offense for Holmes, with LT. He had a spark and showed greatness at times.
I still wouldn't say 'greatness.' Maybe potential, but I did not think it was a huge blow to the team when we lost him.
It all starts with the OL-
breaking tackles in the backfield
would make Marcus Allen look mediocre.
GO HOKIES!
Journell was never good enough to deserve merit for that. He didn't have the leg for anything much over 45 yds. Beamer eventually wouldn't even try him for the longer kicks. He was a good college kicker, never a great one.
He did hit that WTF-56-yarder against BC. The kid was difficult to predict on and off the field.
If you check out his stats, you'd see that he didn't have long kicks. Yes, he made one over 50. That doesn't equate into success. I remember Bitter doing a chart on him, and it made me check out his stats. I don't care to revisit such old news by researching it again. I want to say he only made two others over 45 yrds or so. He didn't try many, either, as his early misses made Beamer stop trying him. he just couldn't make the long kicks. Doesn't mean - never - it just means almost ever. As for his predictability off the field, he was kind of predictable. That's past, though, time to turn the page. Bigger point is - he was not good enough to enter any discussion about 'Best that never was'.
Oh I'm in agreement with you on that. The key for a successful kicker in my opinion is consistency, and that was definitely lacking in his case.
Very true on the consistency thing. If you know the guy won't make it from 45, then you can play call accordingly.
about that 30 for 30... is that the guy that got a trailer/house for his mom by committing to OU? May have that mixed up with the SMU 30 for 30
as far as Hokies, I guess recent memory says Cody Journell would fit that category
Ike Whitaker
Elan Lewis
Jahre Cheeseman
Absolutely agree with Ike Whitaker. That kid had potential but just couldn't get it together with his alcohol problem.
and Sweet Pee's nephew and MV7's cousin, Ronyell Whitaker.
Ronyell probably started greater than 30 games for us, had 7 career interceptions, played briefly in the NFL and led NFL Europe in interceptions. That's pretty good for a 3star recruit.
he was a wildcard, took too many chances an played dirty.
Euro NFL seriously?
XFL would be more impressive.
He probably still holds the record for most facemasks.
So you didn't like him.
He was a very productive member of our secondary for 4 years. Whitraker doesn't fit in any definition of "Best that Never was". He was a 3* recruit who started for four years, so he wasn't a bust by any means. He was a slow 5'8" CB, so he had no professional credentials, yet bounced around practice squads and played in Canada and Europe.
I can overlook some shortcomings but
They don't keep stats for getting burnt or
overplaying passes that go for TDs.
He was very productive in those categories also...
and facemasks. GO HOKIES!
But this thread was about the "Best That Never Was"....Ronyell Whitaker was "Was"...He wasn't "Never Was".
Make sense?
Four years starting...Ok, he got alot of penalties and took chances. Beamer felt he was the best option as a starter, so I will go with Frank on this one.
also can be interpreted as unrealized potential
he could have been great .
don't tell me you think he was great.
GO HOKIES!
I think the most appropriate way to describe Ronyell's play at Tech is to say it was high risk, high reward. he had some crucial plays for us, and he made some crucial errors that cost us.
yeah - what he said. GO HOKIES!
Yeah, the only thing I really remember about Ronyell was him getting torched numerous times against Larry Fitzgerald in that freeze your ballz off game in Lane against Pitt in 2002.
That game sucked.
That game was terrible. I could be wrong, but I remember them running all over us, too.
St Bud had his bud handed to him three straight years by Pitt. He followed it up with another in 2012. Can't say the offense helped in 3 of those.
Xavier Adibi
Vince Hall
Maybe I misunderstood the question? Or perhaps I don't follow the NFL closely enough. But I thought Vince and Xavier were stand out LBs when they played for VT but fizzled out and basically did nothing at the next level. That's why I listed them. I didn't mean to offend anyone.
They were my favorite players to watch on defense when I was a freshman (06/07) but I've heard nothing from either of them since they left the team. Am I missing something?
Nothing to worry about; it was probably just Bud Foster. He loved those two guys. RIP.
I interpreted the question as "who showed great potential at some point in a VT uniform and never quite put it together." In my opinion, Adibi and Hall were excellent in their time here and this wouldn't apply to them.
Some notable one's that I remember (most of whom have been mentioned):
-MV2
-Brandon Ore
-Stephone Anthony - little note here, Stephone got kicked out of school over a hush-hush but sorta iffy issue, maybe his RS-FR or SO year.. some players on the team were pretty unhappy about it. But I remember watching his high school highlight tape when he first committed to Tech, and the dude was like a Cruise Missile at LB (don't know if he could pass pro worth a damn, but he was fun as hell to watch). Really wish we could've seen what he'd have developed into.
-Elan Lewis and George Bell - Both RBs were on the roster at about the same time, and both had knee injuries their Sr. year of HS and never quite recovered. Bruisers of backs when they were healthy.
I went to a high school in NC that would play George Bell's school every year. Dude was a machine and if he was healthy he would have RMFW numbers
Glad someone else mentioned Lewis. He was the man in the Peninsula District but just disappeared after getting to Tech. Couldn't stay healthy and gained a lot of weight.
Stephone Anthony is Barquell Rivers cousin who chose Clemson over us. He still plays there. Are you thinking Stephone Virgil?
From the story, I'm thinking he's referring to Allen Stephens from Halifax County High. He enrolled at Tech, was later dismissed, but the situation was never discussed in public. Allen went on to enroll at Morgan State had a really good year or two, but battled injuries his senior year.
Yep, Allen Stephens is who I was referring to. Confused my LBs - my bad. Tried looking for old highlights somewhere other than Rivals, but unfortunately, couldn't find any.
Kenny Lewis, Jr. didn't have a huge ceiling, but he showed a lot of promise before tearing his Achilles not once but twice.
Overall, I'm going to go with something unique. I'm going to say the 2010 running back trio of Ru, Evans, and Wilson. Three NFL backs who basically broke all of our rushing records, and while they had productive seasons, Ru was hurt for much of it, Evans wasn't the same since his injury, and we didn't entirely know how to spread carries around to three talented backs. It was a terrible blessing to have, because all three could have easily been feature backs that season, but couldn't reach their full potential that season alone because of each other's presence. Just my opinion.
Nick Acree.
Is he off the team for good? I play pick-up bball with him pretty much every day at McComas.
Last public word was that he retired from football because of too many knee injuries and is on medical hardship scholarship.
I was so pumped when he committed early. 6-6, 300 DT as a junior in high school. I'm not sure even without his injuries if he would have been a star, but man would it have been nice to see him on the field every game.
If we're talking about unrealized pro potential, the list begins with Corey Moore.
Still feel bad for the guy it never worked out.
Let's keep it in perspective; Dupree was unstoppable. He was like a once in a decade player.
As far as misses here, since I started following recruiting I can think of a handful of high 4 star guys that haven't contributed at all (Acree, Dew, McCray). We have a lot of guys that did nothing in the NFL, but what school doesn't?
Xavier Boyce. To me he's a prime example of someone who let their opportunity slip by.
Unrealized potential at VT
1) Aaron Brown- one of the top OL recruits VT ever landed
2) Nick Dew- case of a kid who was a linebacker in high school and never adjusted to playing in space at safety or whip.
3) Marcus Vick- worst decision of Beamer's career was bringing him back in 2005.
4) Touchdown Tommy Edwards- mental illness derailed a potentially great career
Lightning struck twice in the Edwards family. His dad, Kenny was a Miles Jack before Miles was a twinkle. In 1968 he started the year at linebacker and was great. If you think X and Hall were special, Widger and Edwards were in their league. He finished the year at tailback and was fabulous the last 6 games. He had it all, big and was a sprint champion. Even though we lost to Ole Miss (Archie M) in the Liberty Bowl we were going to be ranked the next year, primarily because of Edwards and a great defense. A major knee injury in summer practice ended Edward's careeer, our dreams and started JC on his way out. Gotta remember VPI was not under the radar, we were under sonar in the collge football world.
Love, love, love hearing really old school Hokie stories. Thanks for sharing.
I believe Quillie Odom was a similar player and scenario as Nick Dew. 4-star recruit from Hargrave.
On a somewhat related note, that is my favorite 30 for 30. Dupree had the potential to be one of the best of all time, and it really shows all the pressures these top players get coming out of high school.
Drew Harris
Quillie Odom
and........anyone remember the name of the prospect that died in an accident a number of years back?
Drew Harris never wore a Hokie uniform (and still hasn't worn any D1 college uniform actually). It looks like his recruitment(?) continues to have plenty of drama, so I think things probably worked out for us.
Are you talking about Marques Hampton?? I think that happened back in 2000..
Thanks. I remembered Marques, but not the last name.
He has a scholarship endowed by the Tidewater Hokie club in his and his mother's name in remembrance.
Roland Minor...
Yeah, what happened to that guy?
Chillen in DC with his kids... (2 girls I think)
Last I remember of him, his career ended when he was academically ineligible for the bowl game his senior year.
Me. If coach woulda put me in 4th quarter, we would've been state champions. No doubt. No doubt in my mind.
How much you wanna bet I can throw a football over them mountains?
that's what I'm talkin about
Lazarus!
You probably woulda gone pro
MV5, Ore, Linebacker from a few years ago, I think his name was Jake Johnson. Curt Newsome...?
Jake Johnson was not a highly rated recruit coming in. He had one intense picture someone snapped at a camp in Blacksburg that everyone fell in love with, but at the end of the day, there was a reason he was largely ignored by the masses in recruiting.
Johnson put up ridiculous weight room numbers and had a monster game when we opened against Alabama. I would say that he had potential and didn't live up to it because he got upset when he was asked to move to DE.
Putting up ridiculous weight room numbers is meaningless if it doesn't translate on the field. With him, it never really did. He had a decent game against Alabama, and then completely vanished from the radar. He was a low 3* recruit according to both Rivals and Scout at the time, so its not like the expectations were all that high for him to begin with.
Those were the qualifications stated in the post so I would say Johnson met them. He showed talent. You say that weight room statistics are meaningless if it doesn't translate to the field and I agree, but to me that says that you aren't living up to your expectations. So how does that not fall into this category? This is all about the people who couldn't put it together.
Thing is that he kicked ass at Georgia State after he transferred from VT. He wanted to play LB, Tech coaches wanted him at DE.
I remember reading somewhere that VT still allowed him to come back for pro day, though.
I don't know that I would say that he had a monster game against Alabama. I distinctly remember him running into the wrong gaps and right out of plays, essentially blocking himself in a few key situations, one being Mark Ingram's touchdown. There was a reason that Bud decided to move him to the D-Line, and shortly thereafter Wiles said he had no football IQ (I do not remember the exact quote). He sure took a pretty picture, though.
They ran at him around 30 times. He was bound to make some tackles. Jake was really good at the point of attack, but he wasn't athletic enough to tackle in space. Against Alabama for every tackle he made, he missed at least one.
Lyndell Gibson. Think he was an LB a few years ago...?
Deveon Simmons
http://hamptonroads.com/2008/08/troubled-football-standout-tries-one-las...
good pull
A lot of good one on this list. There are a few reasons that I can think of that a player never panned out.
A) Couldn't put it all together despite his talent and/or physical tools, maybe due to a position change or maybe he was just overhyped from dominating high school kids
Quillie Odom was one that I was always excited about that never panned out at Virginia Tech.
Nick Dew
Nick Acree
B) Didn't have the maturity to make it.
MV5 naturally.
If we're talking someone who was great for us but never made it in the NFL, we're talking Jimmy Williams all the way. One of the best CBs that's ever come through DBU but his attitude stopped him from greatness in the league.
Brandon Ore
I hesitate to mention Cody Journell because, let's be honest, was he really that good?
Xavier Boyce
C) Injuries
Barquell Rivers could have been the perfect fit at LB. I'll forever remember him stonewalling Tony Pike.
Doesn't Vince Hall fit here? What was with that knee injury at the Orange Bowl? Something about a jet ski?
George Bell
EDIT: Shoot, who was that QB from some small Virginia school, what, two or three years ago, that was caught by a UC for selling pot? Peter something?
Peter Rose from Amherst.
Right!! This was the guy. I think he was the state player of the year in one division. Wish he would have made it.
They won back to back state championships when he played QB there. I don't think he would have played quartervack at Tech but he was definitely a great athlete. He went on to play at JMU with his two brothers
Besides against WVU in whatever year that was, I don't think I can remember a more epic VT goal line stand.
Let's not forget Jake Johnson or Kris Harley. I have to re-emphasize Nick Acree considering the amount of potential he had but then he couldn't put it together on either side of the ball when he was healthy.
Kris Harley is the one who stands out most to me recently...dude was hyped coming in but never seemed to have the work ethic to improve.
I'll go out on a limb though - Sean Glennon. When the guy had time he could make some very good throws and if we recruited him now I think he would do much better then years ago when you had to start running away before the ball was even snapped.
I had no idea what had happened to Touchdown Tommy Edwards. I found this story...amazing. Very sad. I hope he is doing well now. I noticed in the story that he transferred to Boise State. This was before Boise was any good. They were only 1AA at the time.
http://johncarlinsvirginia.blogspot.com/2012/11/whatever-happened-to-tou...
http://virginiatech.sportswar.com/article/2008/04/17/for-tommy-edwards-t...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avT9QKeda
Jake Houseright
He would have been an absolute star. He had a good season on a wrecked knee.
Zack McCray...
I feel bad for that kid. Really thought he could make an impact at DE, but he came when there was a ton of talent on the DL with Gayle, Wilson, Collins and eventually Nicolas.
If we're talking guys who showed they could play at VT then didn't fulfill the promise (like Dupree at Oklahoma) then Lorenzo Ferguson is my pick. A great talent (3 INTs vs. Clemson in 1998) at whip linebacker who couldn't keep his hands off other people's checkbooks.
That made me think of this for some reason:
Nic Acree. I remember reading quotes from some of the players on offense during his first spring ball, as they talked about what a giant he was. Knee injuries...never panned out.
Yeah, I remember hearing those things, too. But I also remember hearing that he could never quite put it together at any position, meaning he never picked up the nuances of being either OL or DL. I can't remember why I thought so, but I do remember thinking that his physical tools allowed him to dominate high school, but since that wasn't working in college, he didn't really develop the necessary skills to be as effective as he looked.
If you just want to talk recruits, Andrae Harrison gets my vote.
Oh the discussions of talent unfulfilled that this brought to us.
If someone posts about Drew Harris,
does he make a sound in the forest if no one is there to hear it?
RUN forest RUN!
Tony Morrison
Jeff Allen.
You guys realize that VT has had, like, 5 kickers as good as, or better, than Cody Journell in the last 10-12 years, right? Graham, Dunleavy, Pace, Keys, Hazley... hell, I dunno....
I'll go back several years to a guy that never set foot on campus...Tyrone Robertson.
http://archive.techsideline.com/newsarch/1997/970623news.htm
William Wall. He entered the two-deep at DE as a r-frosh and played impressively. Then, like a lot of our DC players do, he vanished.
Shortly after dismantling Duke, Beamer booted him for the usual "team rules violation".
Yeah there's a forgotten name. He was unstoppable in that Duke game and then poof he was gone
William Wall-ace!
Name I haven't seen mentioned is Telvion Clarke. Guy was quite the hype prospect, never really put it together then was dismissed from the team.
Good pull. Totally forgot about him.
Elan Lewis
George Bell
Laurence Gibson and Mark Shuman
One that I don't think has been mentioned...and I hesitate to mention him in the same thread as many others being mentioned because he gave it his all...is Cam Martin. He had the size and athleticism to play in the NFL, but unfortunate injury after injury reduced him to a special teams contributor by his senior year.
I had been wanting to mention this on this thread but totally forgot to. The ESPN 30 for 30 series is awesome. I think I've seen
most of them at this point(scratch that, I just looked up the list and I have only seen like half of them) and these are the best:First.
Hillsborough. Damn.
First point five. Best production. Awesome story.
The U. If it weren't for the fact that Hillsborough was the much better story, this might be 1. I think it was the best produced one.
Tied for second. I watch these every time they're on
Pony Excess
Elway to Marino
The Two Escobars
Best that Never Was
You Don't Know Bo
Without Bias
Catching Hell
Requiem for the Big East
Eddie Aikau
Tied for third. Each of these changed my opinion about someone. Or created it.
Marinovich Project
Run Ricky Run
Benji
Guru of Go
Broke
Bad Boys
The Fab Five
Price of Gold
The one about the Olympic Park bombing and Richard Jewell
Survive and Advance
Youngstown Boys
Tied for fourth. Significant story, but boring beyond words.
The Ghosts of Ole Miss
Tied for last. I literally had to turn these off.
One Night in Vegas
The one about Rotisserie baseball
There's No Place Like Home
I forget about the rest. Some of these might not have even been 30 for 30s, some are 'shorts'. There were SEC Storied documentaries about the Mannings and one about Herschel Walker that were both really good, too, but not technically 30 for 30s, too.
So what you're saying Horse is that any time an 30 for 30 is on you watch it?
Not if it's in the 3rd, 4th, or last place.
I have to be honest, I didn't care for The U. The last time I watched it, I started feeling like I had been bombarded with 80's club music for 2 hours, so I checked to see how much was left, and I still had 45 minutes to go. I couldn't finish it. It's just sooo long. With sooo much 80's club music.
I also thought Ghosts of Ole Miss was fascinating. That one hooked me. (which one is it tied for 4th with?)
I think You Don't Know Bo is my favorite. Really, all of your tied for second group I thought were excellent.
Crossover and Winning Time are also worth mentioning.
Sounds like I need to watch Hillsborough. Haven't seen it yet.
I had put Ole Miss in last place, but I still watched it. The ones that are actually in last place are just really poor. Ole Miss wasn't really poor, so I created a new category for it. I assumed, as I looked at the list on Wikipedia, that I would find others that would fit in with it. I didn't. The Reggie Miller one should be with it. It was just pretty boring.
The U was far and away my favorite forever and I didn't think any would come close. Until last week when the Hillsborough one came on.
I thought The U should have been cut to one hour. I loved hour 1 and felt hour 2 dragged badly.