I went ahead and compiled a spreadsheet of each of the high school/JUCO recruiting classes of the three head coaches since Beamer to see how things have gone, according to the 247 Composite, and not counting specialists.
First off, Pry did improve the baseline from Fuente on the recruiting front, bringing the median overall recruit up from .85965 to .8678; but Franklin has blown the doors off, hitting .88845, almost a median of a four-star recruit.
Going further, looking at position groups, the numbers get more stark.
QBs:
Fuente: .8666 with 6 recruits
Pry: .8714 with 3
Franklin: .93235 with 2
Bourque is, by far, the highest rated QB of the bunch, almost .06 points higher than the next highest (Patterson). To put that in perspective, to do it again, from Patterson, you get between AJ Bush and Knox Kadum.
RBs:
Fuente: .85425 with 10
Pry: .87 with 4
Franklin: .88985 with 4
All of Franklin's RB recruits are higher rated than all of Fuente's but Keshawn King. 3 of the top 5 are Franklin's.
WRs:
Fuente: .8648 with 16
Pry: .88265 with 10
Franklin: .8988 with 3
Fuente had the highest two rated, with Payoute and Turner, followed by Pry's Adams. Brown, at #4 and Wade, at #5, are Franklin's top WRs,
TEs:
Fuente: .8685 with 7
Pry: .86705 with 4
Franklin: .8948 with 4
Karhoff is .048 points higher rated than the next highest (Gosnell). That gap is wider than the gap from Gosnell to St. Germain). Gosnell is the only non-Franklin TE recruit to be in the top 5.
OL:
Fuente: .85745 with 14
Pry: .8658 with 16
Franklin: .8856 with 11
Of the 5 OL recruits who have been rated at .9000 or higher, the lowest 2 have been Franklin's recruits. However, the next 5 are ALL Franklin recruits. Depth is looking hopeful.
DL:
Fuente: .8556 with 9
Pry: .8641 with 7
Franklin: .87885 with 6
Franklin has the top rated DT, but Pry was doing well on that front, landing the next three highest rated. Fuente's top rated prospect, Cam Goode, who never actually arrived at Tech, ranks 7th highest, below Franklin's and Pry's recruits.
Edge:
Fuente: .86165 with 16
Pry: .8684 with 8
Franklin: .8511 with 1
Franklin is at his lowest here. His only recruit (Johnson) is 4th lowest. Fuente had the top 4.
LBs:
Fuente: .8668 with 6
Pry: .8653 with 6
Franklin: .89035 with 4
All three coaches were equally capable in LB recruiting. The Top 6 go Fuente, Franklin, Fuente, Pry, Franklin, Pry. Franklin's lowest is equivalently rated to Artis, and higher than 6 of Pry and Fuente's.
CBs:
Fuente: .8678 with 11
Pry: .8731 with 9
Franklin: .89445 with 4
Bryce Woods is the top CB by the smallest of margins (.0005 points). Like LBs, each coach is fairly equivalent in CB recruiting. Franklin has 3 rated .89-.8995, Pry had 2, Fuente had 3. However, Franklin's lowest (.8833) is higher than every other 15.
S:
Fuente: .85265 with 8
Pry: .8667 with 7
Franklin: .87945 with 2
Devon Hunter was, the highest rated recruit of the post-Beamer era. The next highest was Chamarri Conner (.0824 lower). The gap between Hunter and Conner is greater than the gap between Conner and every recruit of the era, including specialists. All three coaches have been top heavy, with 6 rated .88 or higher, then nobody until 0.8689.
ATHs:
Fuente: .8667 with 11
Pry: .8674 with 9
Franklin: .8850 with 1
Athletes are a little harder to quantify, because they'll slot in just about anywhere on the field; but the top 3 go Fuente, Pry, Franklin.
The only areas where Fuente outrecruited Pry was at TE (by .00145) and LB (by .0015), and the only spot where Franklin has been outrecruited has been at Edge. Even with the highest rated overall recruit (Hunter at .9799) Fuente had the worst CB median group rating.
Franklin's median group ratings for QB, WR, TE, LB, and CB are all 4-star. Even crazier, Franklin's median is just .0016 points from being 4-star. At the current juncture, that's only 2 more 4-star players needed to make the median of 46 players a 4-star.
Comments
And then they go and de-rate Bryce Woods today. The point still stands, Franklin is still killing the recruiting trail.
I know Franklin gets killed (and rightfully so) by PSU fans for being a horrid in-game coach. We'll probably witness that first hand once we get into the season.
But even if we see some high-school level coaching ineptitude, I still think this was a home run hire. I don't think there's a coach in the country that could have pulled what he's done from a recruiting standpoint.
Even if Franklin has some in game coaching faults and failures, he's been a head coach 15 years and has won nearly 70% of his games. You don't win that many games without being a damn good football coach. Is he elite? No, but he is great and has proven to be one of the most consistently successful coaches in the country for over a decade.
I said this when he was hired, he outmans all the unranked teams and wins those, and he struggles with the top 10.. We're in the ACC that means he's 12=1 most years. We dont have an OsU or Michigan. We have Mike Norvell's FSU and a past prime Dabo's Clemson. SMU is a bigger dog right now. (yes Miami too)
That's not what I hear.
There is a tendency to judge all coaches in CFB vs Nick Saban. No one else is Saban. Franklin is great. I'm pumped he's a Hokie
Although to be 100% fair, Saban himeself admits he's not a NIL era coach.
So he's Frank Beamer 2.0, I think we would all take that!
Well, we've been subjected to this for the past two coaches, so the way I look at it, we have a huge jump in talent that even with the horrid game day coaching we've had, we should win most, if not all the one score games from Pry's tenure (as an example).
If this is the "worst case scenario", I'm fine with it, but to a point made within this thread already, his record shows his game day coaching is an upgrade we'd gladly take.
Ehh its not like Penn State was stellar against Top 10 teams prior to Franklin.
23-45-1.
Michigan also hadn't made significant investments in football until about 2004. Once they did it was full tilt in terms of results.
Franklin was an awful 4-21. That said, he only lost as a favored team three times during that.
1. Against Oregon in CFP semifinals
2. Against Notre Dame #5 vs #7 in 2025 at the Orange Bowl.
3. At Minnesota in 2024 #4 vs #10 on yhe road
Lost to Ohio State in 2016 as higher ranked team but it was at Ohio St and Buckeyes were favored #2 vs #6
Lost to USC in the Rose Bowl in 2016 but again wasnt favored due to heavy USC crowd. #5 vs #9
Penn State was unranked in first three seasons for 5 of the 21 losses.
Penn State was at least 5 spots lower in polls in 9 of the 21 losses so 14 of 21 losses they were at least 5 spots lower when unranked added in.
He was 3-7 in games within 5 spots in the polls, being on the lower side in 6 of 10 games.
15 of the 22 games involved Michigan and Ohio State, who still to this day significantly outspend Penn State.
Franklin was 1-14 in those games and was never favored to win in any of them. They were only higher ranked in one game 2016 at Ohio State. They were only within 5 spots in poll in two others. He was 0-3 in those games.
Really bad record but not as surprising when you consider the above.
The more time goes by the more it becomes clear that Penn St fans are just collectively batshit insane to the point where you have to question any and all narratives about what comes out of Happy Valley.
That program needed the death penalty after Paterno. Because that toxic fanbase is downright unhealthy.
Home run hire on so many levels, but I really don't agree with the assessment of him being a horrid in-game coach, unless that is predicated strictly on his record vs. Top 10 teams. He's probably no worse than any other P4 coach in terms of in-game management, plus isn't that why these coaches (especially Franklin compared to our former coaches) have an assistant handling virtually every game time task imaginable? Franklin is simply the oversight manager of the analysis and recommendations/decisions of his assistants. I'm a firm believer that you're only as good as your assistants., just as Frank had Bud.
He, like many coaches, need a 13 y.o. that plays madden to tell him how to run a 2 minute drill. He would have fucked up that mismi game just like Pry did.
He is better than Pry going 30-29 in one score game, but thats not great. Frank was 54-23-2. Dan Mullen, Kyle whitingham, Gary Patterson, Mark Richt, and Bill Snyder all had way better winning percentage in 1 score games.
He's the worst recruiter at EDGE?!
Burn it all to the ground
Until a certain 5* jumps on board
Until any of them jump on board, really.
Thinking about hunter and payoute is rough. Those were 2 of the highest rated recruits Fuente got (Hunter was literally the highest and our highest rated guy since Kendall fuller) and they played essentially zero snaps. You can afford a few whiffs when you get lots of 4 stars. Unfortunately Fuente couldn't afford the whiffs and our record paid the price. Franklin is showing that we will have high end talent but also some depth. Here's hoping that trend continues
Thanks for putting this together! The value of TKP!!
Just shows how poor of a recruiter Fuente was.
A question though- haven't composite grades inflated over the last 10 years? I thought something changed with ESPN changed between now and the last several years that caused the overall grade to be higher (i.e.- an 87 rated recruit in 2017 is actually more valuable than a 87 rated recruit in 2026).
Either way- thank you for putting this together.
There are more 4* recruits than there were 10-15 years ago. There are not more 5 * typically that has a limit of 32 (composites can change this).
So yes its hard to make an apples to apples comparison.
It's taking a bit of time to do this, but going off of position rankings (not counting JUCOs, Internationals, or transfers)
QB:
Franklin: Bourque - 7, Huhn - 25, Median - 16
Fuente : Hooker - 11, Patterson - 13, Ellis - 46, Kadum - 57, Bullock - 63, Median - 46
Pry: Brand - 36, Watson, Belfort - 50, Wittke - 62, Ryan - 66, Median - 50
RBs:
Franklin: Mickens - 18, Jones-Priest - 27, Morrison - 39, Smart - 62 Median - 33
Fuente: King - 23, Holston - 34, Christian - 43, Gary - 48, Hampton - 69, Steward - 74, Thomas - 77, Black - 80, Brunson - 82, Median - 69
Pry: Overton - 31, Mason - 50, Duke - 79, Coney - 110, Median - 64.5
WRs:
Franklin: Brown - 47, Wade - 52, Brown - 57 Median - 52
Pry: Adams - 37, Peterkin - 44, Fitzgerald - 60, Wiggins - 62, Sparks - 63, Greene - 81, Anderson - 106, Heath - 117, Baylor - 132, Holloway - 134 Median - 72
Fuente: Payoute - 7, Robinson - 19, Turner - 34, Pinckney - 50, Lofton - 57, Mitchell - 62, Simmons - 72, Jones - 77, Bowick - 83, Savoy - 92, Grimsley - 99, Pimpleton - 103, Sims - 126, Moss - 154, Wright - 197 Median - 80
TEs:
Franklin: Karhoff - 5, Petersohn - 20, Faniel - 22, Salster - 40 Median - 21
Pry: Gosnell - 16, Wright - 33, St Germain - 57, Wimbush - 98 Median - 45
Fuente: Deiuliis - 17, Keene - 36, Gallo - 38, Smith - 40, Hollifield - 62, Pene - 82, Gibble - 86 Median - 40
This is just about the only NICE thing about all the RBs Fuente brought in.
The lowest position ranking of every offensive skill position player recruited by Franklin is, at least, equal to the median of either Pry or Fuente.
Full disclosure, I somehow missed two recruits for Franklin. a WR and a CB, which brings his respective medians in those groups to .89495 and .8922 respective, and his overall median to .8880
You've clearly lost the locker room
Oh, I have to bring back my boxing whisker recruiting plots
UPDATE: It's pretty stark how much Franklin has improved recruiting:
How does it compare to any five year era of Beamer from 95-2010, I wonder. Those were "the golden years".
Pre 2006 was a lot higher than post 2006 even though the rankings got better. 2006 was when we started to lose VA recruits to out of state.
Meh, recruiting services weren't as good at evaluating players pre-2011, and pre-2005, services only rated notable players (there were only 26 players who had a composite score from 2000-2004), so the data is kinda funky
The one thing that does stand out (and I've said this for ages) is Frank's classes always had a high ceiling.
Hey look, kevin jones
What do you use to pull 247/recruiting data?
Nice work BTW.
College football data.com
Oh nice, I didn't know they had recruiting data too.
Here's what I took from that list...
Pry was a really bad head coach. Wow.
That being said, I love the guy and I am really glad he is our DC.
I like Pry a lot. He's a likeable guy!
I'm not convinced he's actually that good of a DC tho. Fortunately, James Franklin can recruit really well. Talent masks coaching issues.
If we recruit top 20 talent and have a top 20 defense, I will be quite pleased.
I think we are spoiled for having Bud for so long, Bud was fantastic and probably a top 5 all time DC with many here thinking he's the best.
I dont think Pry compares to Bud, but can he field a top 25 defense, sure. Are his defense going to be listed as the hardest mentioned by many of the top QBs, no
Right, absolutely. I agree.
I also think that Pry as a DC is an improvement over what we've seen since Bud.
Pry and Franklin recruiting is head and shoulders above about 120 teams out there and at least at par with the other 15. That is part of coaching and that part is exemplary.
Geez man, I love that we are arguing over how good these guys have been instead of how bad they have been.
I think something can be said about a 'decent' DC (Pry) that has good chemistry with the Head Coach. I think we've had some DCs that had potential to be good, but never really fit (plus recruiting wasn't great and some never stayed long enough to recruit/develop the players they needed).
I feel pretty optimistic the combination of Pry, Franklin and great recruiting will work quite well for VT.
The other part about this specifically is I am proud of the VT fan reaction to Pry as DC after we fired him as HC.
I said this when Fuente kind of ostracized the media and fans, no one wants to fire the nice guy, everyone wanted pry to succeed.
What I took from the data above is that Pry was a better recruiter than Fuente even though he had a lower rankings and results. That speaks to just how bad a recruiter Fuente was.
Franklin has unlocked a new tier of recruit and overall recruiting possibility for VT. The early returns are unbelievably impressive. If we can start having average recruit rankings in the 89-90s range, that is a strong indicator that we are going to have some success.
Let the man cook!
Not sure where to put this so, here it is regarding the QB observations at Elite 11.
at 11:28 they start to talk about the QBs individually. They don't get too much into the detail on guys too much but pretty interesting.
So far, Franklin has significantly increased VT's media profile and recruiting. I like Pry, but I'm not sure I ever believed he'd significantly change the trajectory of VT football. I thought Fuente might, but he unfortunately crashed and burned. He literally lost the locker room and set the program back.
Franklin's record is more proven than either Fuente or Pry. I'm team Franklin, all the way, and recruits clearly feel the same way.
To be fair... neither of those guys had the funding that Franklin has had. And franklin would be performing similar to them if he had the same funding/resources/support.
Oh come on, this is revisionist history - certainly Fuente and Pry weren't resourced the way they needed to be but to say they'd perform the same is ludicrous. It's not like Franklin hasn't proven himself multiple times before, especially at Vanderbilt - they've been substantially better in recent years so people forget how terrible they used to be.
Well first, I didn't say 'the same' - I said similar. AND, this is NOT me suggesting that Pry/Fuente would be winning ACC titles if not for proper budget.
Secondly... Franklin seems to think this, and has said multiple times publicly about Fuente and Pry. Maybe it's disingenuous and a way for his BFF to save face, but I think there's quite a bit of truth behind it.
Do you think Franklin is winning more than 7ish games with the 2024 roster? Do you think Franklin could have assembled a better roster in 2025 with the same amount of NIL? Do you think Franklin can attract better coordinator hires than Fuente did in 2018 with the same budget?
The entire game is changing. From student-athletes to professional players. So there will never be "fair" comparisons between pre-NIL and post-NIL.
For now, though, I'm still thinking Franklin was a pretty good hire.
I think Franklin wins more than 7ish games with the 24 roster. I base this on the fact that Pry won 6 with the 24 roster and dropped 5 one score games.
I have to think Franklin wins us at least 2 of those 5.
(Also, going back and looking at the 2024 season results is insane. Our "worst" loss was a 10 point loss to Clemson in which we led at halftime. If you just saw the results and didn't watch the games, you'd say it's crazy how close we came to being 11-1 or even 12-0 if you think about it. But if you watched the games, you'd know the truth, which is that the results could have been so much worse.)
Maybe. I don't think Franklin's the best in game coach; he excels at roster building. Maybe he's better than Brent Pry with that roster, idk.
Franklin has won everywhere he's been because he's recruited and raised funds better than anyone else in program history. I expect him to do the same at VT.
Maybe Franklin never has a roster as bad as VT 2024. But its tough to say how much of the 2024 talent was due to recruiting blunders versus the budget, especially in the NIL era
I think that's being MORE than fair.
Franklin is (and has been) better resourced, but he has achieved more. I'm also hoping he achieves more at VT, with time and NIL.