Found this article by Greg Cosell to be a very fair evaluation and comparison. Interesting insight from a guy who has watched his fair share of film.
Forums:
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.
Found this article by Greg Cosell to be a very fair evaluation and comparison. Interesting insight from a guy who has watched his fair share of film.
Comments
Any VT QB that goes undefeated against UVA is a college Hall of Famer in my book.
I think Logan is a different type of QB than Cam Newton. Logan is given a system to play in and he can excel in that system because of his skills and his ability as a leader and his willingness to give 110% in that system. Newton kind of creates his own type of offense, he definitely runs the plays as they are designed, but a lot of Newton's best plays are when the play breaks down and he makes something out of nothing. Logan's big plays were often because he was given a play and because of his physical tools and pure effort he gained more yards than would be expected (or he would throw a pass another QB wouldn't have the arm for). So I think Logan would need a few years to learn a system and perfect his mechanics/timing/whatever and then he could be great. Compare this to Newton who had a great rookie season with the Panthers, but as I remember it he made a lot of big plays on scrambles and by extending plays, not as many by executing plays exceptionally well. It seem highly unlikely Logan will get a start in the NFL next year, so we may never know how NFL ready he is off the bat, but I think he would not be as successful as a player like Manziel who also creates many plays outside of play design like Newton.
Graduating early with one degree and working for a second one while traveling , practicing, and attending film sessions for a college football team is more impressive than you're giving credit for.
#ThingsYouNeverDreamtToHearAboutaHokieOffense
I think Newton had far better instincts and pocket awareness coming out that Logan does. There were a lot of Cam detractors (still are) out there who made it seem like he wouldn't know what he was doing in a pro-style offense, but he has easily proven otherwise.
I think they both share a few mechanics-related issues, but I don't think Logan is more "pro-ready" than Cam coming out. He might know a bit more of the terminology (Gruden's interview with Cam before the draft exposed that he didn't know a lot of the lingo for offenses in the NFL) but I think that's where I'd draw the line.
The article failed to say that LT3 is a high character guy and smart QB who graduated early and stayed out of trouble. That should count for something as a student athlete.
Staying out of trouble is something we expect of our players at Virginia Tech. Graduating early in human development when you have two summer sessions each year isn't particularly hard either.
No disrespect to LT3, he's a great representative of VT, and I'm appreciative of that but that doesn't play a huge role in his draft stock. If I'm an NFL GM, I'll take a star QB who made one mistake over a project that is mistake free.
Graduating early with one degree and working for a second one while traveling and practicing, and attending film sessions for a college football team is more impressive than you're giving credit for.
Unfortunately, that doesn't win you football games in the NFL
Fortunately, It Does help win you the game of Life.
Well that's great, but we're talking about why an NFL team would draft him high, for which your argument is meaningless.
If being a good person meant anything, Tim Tebow would still be an NFL player.
I don't disagree with your general sentiments on the subject Alum, but I do think NFL teams are more concerned now about character than they used to be.
There have been too many high-profile catastrophes for them to ignore at this point.
That said, outside of Johnny "(I'll sign that) Football (for a dollar)" Manziel, I don't know of any other QBs in the draft that pose character issues.
I think most everyone understands Logan is a project QB, including Logan. I hope to hell that whoever drafts him understands this.
OK. Lets talk about why an NFL team would draft him high. But before I start, Tim Tebow was a 1st round draft pick, lest you forget. You don't get drafted higher than that. Being a good person and a great athlete actually does mean something. Because if being a good person meant nothing, DeSean Jackson gets drafted in the 1st round and not the second. What dropped him to the second round... Character issues.
Now LT3... The NFL LOVES measurables. They pay for the things you can't teach. Which Logan has more than enough of. He's bigger, stronger, faster, and overall more Studly than any other QB's that are draftable. He has carried a bad team, won not b/c of the talent around him, but in spite of. Knows how to win and lose. Before, after and during the game. Yes, he was the FOCUS of VT offense for years and still set records. The number of QB sneaks that went for ten yards is silly. And everyone knows it coming. Played hard 1stQ to 4thQ. Gave his all when he really didn't have to. Made a move probably contrary to his best career path for the team. He was developed by a subpar QB coach, and when a good one came along it was probably too late for most people's liking. But he has a cannon and sometimes it makes up for lack of touch. A cannon arm must be paid for because it can not be taught. The NFL can make LT3 a better mental QB, but they can't make a weak armed QB have Vick or LT3's arm strength.
Coachable and no off the field issues. That does not mean he doesn't have his flaws. Locks into one receiver. Lacks short pass touch. Misses on routine throws sometimes. However, if the right QB coach got his hands on LT3, maybe... just maybe...
And worst case scenario for drafting him is that if after 2 years of QB development he can't be a viable starter, he has proven he has soft hands (both of his career VT catches were smoooooth, the off the turf Sam Rogers pass vs UVA, and I believe it was Tyrod who hit him on a jump ball fade route his freshman year) and he can be a Split out Jimmy Graham style TE. The Same Jimmy Graham who played 1 year of college football and dropped two TD's against the Hokies, and still is considered top-5 TE in the league. Drafted in the third round.
I believe all that is third or fourth round worthy. Maybe some GM's don't. Maybe some GM's think I'm underselling....
Character does matter, which is one of the reasons why Dashawn Jackson was just released by the Eagles a few weeks ago.
I'd say that 60 million dollar contract was a bigger one.
True, the 'character' excuse was just a cover for the financial reason.
Most NFL teams do this, unfortunately. A player has a big contract the team no longer wants to pay, and suddenly all the "character" issues become a problem and so they release him saying it was because of "character" issues.
Looks better to the fans/media that way than just saying "we didn't want to pay him that much, we write these contracts but we hardly ever follow them"
Yep. My immediate response upon hearing any NFL contract is to ask how much is guaranteed. All the big contracts are restructured, or else the players are just cut. That's why I am not bothered by guys like DReavis. let him get all he can, because he knows he'll get cut as soon as he's injured or the team finds a cheaper replacement.
While I think DJ has some issues, I think Chip Kelly laid a big ugly one on the front porch of the Philly Eagles. Philadelphia has about 100% of their fans trying to do the same thing because thats just what they do. But its not a smart professional move.
He showed his immaturity, ego, and lack of wisdom by sh***ing all over DJ's character. DJ will get to pay him back this season. Players won't trust him as much as they might have. Now they'll think what happened to the last guy who wanted to get paid by the Iggles? Foles is a good QB, but if he has a down year, attracting talent becomes a critical issue in the free agent market.
He starts getting a Harbaugh reputation he'll be back coaching college football in short order.
I'm not sure what you mean by a Harbaugh reputation equaling back to college football. Last time I checked, Harbaugh ("enthusiastic" approach and all) is still one of the most successful coaches in the league.
DJ already had a big contract. Was he trying to re-negotiate after 1 year of his contract?
No, the Eagles decided they didn't want the big contract they just gave him, so they cut him and cite "character issues." Coincidentally, the report about possible "gang ties" came out about an hour before the Eagles announced they cut him.
How many players have dropped in the draft and missed out on Millions of $ b/c of "Character Issues"?
Lots. LT3 won't be one.
Some people still think Leal is better, but Danny Cole is open, and Tight End.
Oh, and it WAS a catch!!!
ESPN Top 10 Nominee
That video always infuriates me. VT. Won. That. Game. Period!
Aaarrrrgggghhhhh!!
Yep it definitely still hurts seeing those pics. And damn I miss Danny Coale!!
As much as that was definitely a catch (and it definitely definitely was), we went first in that overtime. If we had been given that score, Michigan wouldn't have called the three most conservative plays ever and kicked a field goal.
Our defense was playing lights out, and I don't think they would have scored, but Michigan's overtime possession definitely would have been different if the refs were looking at the right replay. Who knows what would have happened.
we would've stopped them on fourth down and win 27-20 is what would've happened.
I'd like to think so, but Michigan was hitting miracle plays all game long against us when their backs were to the wall. One of the most frustrating games I've ever watched. Our defense shut them down and they still managed to hit on numerous desperate throws. They were just destined to win that game.
Sigh, do we have to do this again? No. WE WON THAT FUCKING GAME!
No Fukin doubt!
What happens when LT's arm doesn't have the zip like it had in college? Cosell uses the phrase "strong-armed quarterback to describe the high velocity at which he throws.
That being said, I agree with Twalex in that Logan is smart. He can probably handle the steep learning curve that the NFL demands. Really hoping a team sees that and takes him in Rounds 1 or 2.
I highly, highly doubt you'll get your wish then. Rounds 3-5 would be more appropriate, I think. 1-2 are for players who can come straight out of college and start, and I don't think Logan is there yet.
The 2013 Draft alone included plenty of guys who didn't end up as starters: Dion Jordan (#3 overall), Barkevious Mingo (#6), Tavon Austin (#8), Jarvis Jones (#17), Tyler Eifert (#21), Bjrn Werner (#24), Justin Hunter (#34), Zach Ertz (#35), Darius Slay (#36), Tank Carradine (#40), Gavin Escobar (#47), Jon Bostic (#50), Margus Hunt (#53), Jamar Taylor (#54), Arthur Brown (#56).
I didn't look in-depth into every single player, but many of these players were drafted early because of elite, freakish athleticism that team believe they can develop. Logan won't be close to the first QB drafted, but I think he falls into that category of guys with athletic ability that is extremely difficult to pass up.
There's players in round 1 who turned out to be busts as well, but I still think that teams will be looking for more polished players in the first two rounds. That being said, it only takes one, and there are teams out there with track records of taking very athletically talented players who aren't quite polished yet in high rounds.
For example, Oakland is notorious for drafting talented players in the first round who many believe are being drafted way above where they should be. I just hope that Logan doesn't get picked by a team like that who drafts based on potential, but then shoves the players into a starting role before they're ready.
I agree that teams generally look for starters/quick contributors in the first two rounds. However, the one common exception to this strategy is with guys who demonstrate extraordinary athleticism. Logan certainly falls into this category.
My goodness, I hope he doesn't go to Oakland. That team's been the biggest bundle-of-crap program in the league for like 10 years. It's a cause for celebration if they win more than 5 games, which they've done all of twice in the past decade, and they haven't made the playoffs since 2002. I'd rather see LT3 play 4 more years under O'Cain than have him shipped off to Oakland.
I'm really hoping for New Orleans. I've heard that they like him a lot and it would be a great fit for him. Learn behind one of the best QB's in the game and from one of the best offensive minds.
I think it kinda depends on what you define "start" as. I loosely define it as heavily contributing. In that case I'd remove guys like Austin, Jones, Eifert, Hunter, Ertz, and even Bostic. I agree that there are plenty of instances where it goes against it, but I do also think in general that the first couple rounds are used for immediate contributors. I guess the question would be, do they think Logan exhibits the same athletic upside as a guy like Jordan, Mingo, Hunt, etc? I'm interested to find out honestly.
The vote will be in (yay or nay) on Logan Thomas years before his arm loses any zip.
Why wouldn't it have the zip? If you are saying he'll have an average arm as compared to other NFL QB's then I would say take a look at this article - Velocity
I am saying right now, yes, he has a cannon of an arm.
I believe Cosell is questioning, and all of the NFL for that matter, whether Logan can develop the other skills that an elite level QB must possess. According to Cosell's analysis, if he loses his zip then Logan has little else to rely on.
Based on his intelligence and ability to adapt to different offensive schemes through the years, I feel Logan can be brought up to speed in the NFL more quickly than your average draft-eligible QB. He will likely develop other skills that will keep him employed in the NFL for a long time.
I just don't think (barring injury) that NFL QB's really lose a lot of zip on their throws. Look at Vick he's 33 and announcers are still talking about how hard he throws the football. With that said, I completely agree that he needs to develop other skills in order to be a decent NFL QB.
I was just about to post that article...yup, he set the NFL record for hardest throw.
Imagine him going to New England and learning from Tom Brady for a few years...
Dunno, they have Ryan Mallet there still, don't they?
There are two things I remember about Mallet from his days at Arkansas.
1) He was the best pocket quarterback I can remember ever seeing in college.
2) He allegedly had a massive alcohol problem.
If he can overcome #2, then #1 will make him a ridiculously good NFL QB. And he's already been in the Brady/Belichick machine for a few years.
Right...but Brady will still be around for a few years probably. Mallet was drafted in 2011. I doubt he will want to stick around forever. Apparently this will be his last season in New England. There were rumors of him being traded this offseason. Ironically, Mallet is 6'6", 245lbs...basically the exact same size as Logan.
http://www.patspulpit.com/2014/4/22/5641828/patriots-dont-have-to-draft-...
New England is talking about drafting a replacement.
That is why I see NE as a good place for Logan to go. NE backups spend a few years behind Brady then go start somewhere else. It is Mallet's turn to move on.
The comments are sad.
What's the down side of letting Logan get drafted and watching him get his shot without all the vitriol?
I don't get it-I'm not quite sure how LT3 personally affected these people. (Get a life.)
It makes me pull for the kid even more, but even if he was drafted #1, and went on to win the next 8 Superbowls, there would still be dipshits talking smack.
I HATE smack talk; unless it's done towards uva. (And is it really 'smack' when you've beaten someone 10 years in a row?)
Ramble, ramble.......
this angle looks like he is flopping.
It also looks like there's a lot of force in trying to knock him down that just gets tossed aside.
That is because you can't see his feet to know he is being lifted off the ground and sent flying.
You are talking about the comments on the Cosell story? I agree...it made me really angry reading them. There were quite a few posters who claimed to be Hokie fans and they were saying he sucked also.
He will prove them all wrong.
Good luck LT!! Pulling for you.
The way teams have been giving Logan a good looking over, I'd say they are intrigued with something about him. The millionS dollar question is, will somebody take a chance on him early? I'm betting "yes" if they miss on one guy and he is available. He won't be available after three rounds, if even two. Go Logan. Go Hokies!
Note to self: Logan found a good home even if you were wrong.
Go Hokies!
I have no doubt that he could pick up the NFL schemes, but if you aren't an accurate passer you just aren't gonna cut it in the NFL... and while a good QB coach can work with him on that, to say he is pro ready is a bit of a stretch
Memo to all the down-voters. I've been seeing a lot of them recently over innocuous statement, so I'm assuming it's some new members: On TKP, it's not really supposed to be used if someone has an opinion you don't agree with.
If you disagree, either ignore the comment, or take the time to type a rebuttal.
but..but..but...rebuttals are hard :/
Haha your comment has "butt" and "hard" in it. Hehe.
Yes, I have the mind of a 13 year old.
Not only that, but its a violation of the Community Guidelines to just downvote opinions you don't like.
There are some people in here who need a refresher on the Rules of TKP.
Was he trying to spike the ball and stop the clock?
Well, if you look closely at where the game clock is on the image it can be reasonably assumed that he was attempting to Spike the Clock.
If that guy can be drafted and made it to the Cleveland roster, I dont see why Logan cant do the same.
As long as the similarities stop there.
check it for pine tar.
The premise of the article was to compare LT to Cam Newton who wasn't a particularly accurate QB early in his career either.
Also when you look strictly at completion %, you have to account for our offense traditionally being long routes to take the top off a defense that's trying to pack the box against the run. (2013 was a bit of an outlier there though)
I realize that was the comparison... but Newton started every game his rookie season and completed 60% of his passes... I just don't think there is a team in the NFL looking at LT as their starter this fall, .. best case scenario is that he gets drafted by a team with a good QB coach that can work with him until they get the kinks worked out.. there's no doubt LT has huge potential, just needs consistency
Here's the thing... with Logan it really just depends on who drafts him. I guarantee you there are teams out there right now who are looking to draft him and convert him to TE with the realization that within a couple years, he could develop into a force at that position. And before you turn around and go with the whole "yeah, thats a smart move... he's never played that position before, and nobody is stupid enough to do that"... The Seattle Seahawks just traded for Terrell Pryor with the full intention of converting him to a WR or TE.
His future in the NFL at this point is purely about what the team that drafts him needs. If someone like Jacksonville, Houston, Tennessee, Buffalo, etc... if they draft him, I could definitely see him being groomed to be the future QB. If someone with an established QB drafts him, like a Green Bay, Carolina, Baltimore, Atlanta, etc, then I see him being utilized as a TE.
I think LT's best chance of a pro career are to be drafted by a team like the Bronco's, Pat, Saints, etc where they have a veteran QB that is probably 2-3 years from retirement. He can be mentored by a great QB and coach for a couple of years and then given his shot.
I also recognize that some of those coaches might be willing to give him only 1 year on the practice squad before turning to him and saying you just aren't getting it. You are going to be a TE from here on out if you want to stay.
I may be slightly biased, but IF Logan is still on the board when Houston makes their first-round pick, he'd be an absolute steal.
I am thinking 2nd to fourth round based on the results of the combine. Before I was thinking 3rd to 7th based on rumored ability.
I have money on 2nd round. Some GM's like to take a gamble in 2nd and this is exactly the type of player you gamble on. One of them will take him off the board late 2nd round IMO
I'm thinking 3rd. Still think most GMs want immediate starters in the 2nd round, but in the 3rd they may consider a player who is more of a project (Logan). And he'll be an early project, because his physical traits and psychological makeup will be too desirable for a team, they'll start to get nervous he'll be picked by someone else.
I'm with Fernley, 2nd round. I could see a team trading back in to the bottom of the round to take him as a project.
It only takes one self proclaimed "genius" coach who believes he can turn Logan into a star...I think there is a solid chance he goes in Rd 2.
Someone said he was further along than EJ Manuel...
Yeah, I was trying to make a joke. Admittedly, it was not a good one. Realistically, I'm with you fellas. It wouldn't surprise me to see a GM roll the dice and take him in the 2nd and I'd be shocked if he fell below the 4th. I'll split the difference and say he goes somewhere in the 3rd.
NFL Insider Pete Buddy Wilson is projecting Logan Thomas to be the first pick in the NFL draft....
IF he's even still available...some of my #sources think he could go even earlier.
To all the haterz out there that will inevitably find their way to this glorious community...
When Colbert starts hosting the Late Show, I think his seat should be taken by Leal.
Unless Colbert has some great people skills he's been hiding for the past several years, I'm guessing the Late Show is going to more of a hot mess than it has been the last decade or so that Letterman has been mailing it in.
Wait, you're saying he doesn't have good people skills? Besides pissing off everybody at Fox News, I thought he was generally well regarded amongst his peers. Is there more?
I'm not sure how "well regarded amongst one's peers" is the same as having good people skill as it relates to interviewing the various guests who may or may not be able to sustain their end of a conversation.
Colbert's schtick as interviewer is to play a caricature of O'Reilly on Fox News.
Do you really think that's going to play on the biggest stage?
It may, but it would be a departure from what has been proven to be successful in the past.
Steve Allen, Jack Paar, Johnny Carson and Jay Leno were all successful interviewers because their guests and their audience could relate to them, could see behind the wise-cracks a real person with whom a casual and free-ranging conversation could be had.
David Letterman at his best was a shoot-from the hip interviewer who would call BS on the wackier guests, and challenge all his guests to be their best, and if they couldn't, he was able to cover for their nervousness or general lack of gab. After he moved opposite Leno, he toned down his edginess, and really never regained the form that made him my favorite when he was on the Late Late timeslot.
Colbert's schtick thus far has been to ham it up to the camera/audience, make his guests uncomfortable, and try to get them to make miscues that he could make fun of.
They aren't off-the-cuff interviews so much as little semi-scripted comedy bits.
I'll be interested to see if he can make that work, or make the transition to a real late-show interview structure where he has to be himself, whoever that is, and connect at a visceral level with his guests & his audience.
There's actually a news shot on 60 minutes a couple weeks ago after the announcement that spoke to this very thing. "Who is Stephen Colbert?"
According to what that story was saying, the Colbert Report is known as what it is, and the guests go on and agree to go on knowing what it is. Most of them tend to enjoy conversing with him out of character, and can enjoy themselves a bit speaking to him in character because they know it's all for laughs.
I'd liken it to the Two Ferns interview with President Obama a couple weeks ago. If you agree to do a show like that, you have to be able to bring it, and not be upset when you get broadsided by silly stuff.
The more personable Colbert is what people will end up seeing (according to CBS) and if the people don't like it, he'll be short lived as a host. It's not like he wouldn't be able to go back to his Colbert Report persona if it doesn't work out as a late night host.
Meanwhile I personally feel I deserved at least two uplegs for this gif as a crack at LT3 detractors.
"I told you so's" are a bit premature. And as has been discussed up-thread, draft position doesn't necessarily relate to pro-readiness.
I'd say you'd have to wait until after the draft, and then at least until after Logan's rookie season, before knowing if Logan is more pro-ready than Cam Newton was.
Not to mention that there is nothing remotely close to a consensus on Logan and the NFL. It varies so wildly and you can't just take a couple people's opinions and tout you were right even though there are just as many saying the opposite.
So if he does it then I have both of you Debbie downers (half sarcastica) words that you will come back to this thread and give this gif the legs they deserve?
If you have to beg for turkey legs, then you don't deserve them.
My finger is hovering over the downleg button. A friendly reminder isn't the same as begging. As folks that didn't go to that community public school in that shithole about an hour west of Richmond on 64 (and as members of TKP) I'd expect you to know that.
Now, I will give this a turkey leg, because there is no reason whatsoever that this comment should receive downvotes.
Read the Community Guidelines, people!
It seems to have morphed into a case of people receiving a downvote if they post something others dislike. Quite disappointing, and too reminiscent of certain other message boards.
Too many people flocking over from TSL, where censorship and bullying to silence the opinions of others is not only welcome but celebrated.
Definitely doesn't need downvotes, but if you have to ask for turkey legs then your comment didn't deserve them in the first place, no? Just saying...
Hey buddy, I wasn't asking. I was simply giving a friendly reminder.
There's not. And this whole thread has derailed into trolling over turkey legs. Let's move on. People can choose to upvote on their own; they don't need to be reminded, asked, cajoled, prodded, or anything else. The faux indignation over such trivial things is really mind-blowing...
precisely, now this is a comment that deserves a turkey leg
Well if that is both of your positions then good day to you sirs and
I realize you are attempting to play a part and use bender as your venue for sarcasm but telling anyone, let alone 2 fellow Hokies, to "lick your ass" is immature, low class douchery that doesn't belong on TKP or anywhere else.
Try taking some advice and check your indignation at the door. make an effort to contribute to the discussion, maybe then you'll get those turkey legs you so desperately want.
Ehhhh... I don't think it was immature, I read it as a joke, which is what this site is based upon... Humor.
I think his biggest fault is that, at least at this point, he's overplaying his Bender hand. At one point, I could see 2 Bender pics/gifs at one time on the screen, both with the same message. The act is getting beaten into the ground.
I don't care if he is using a 1000 bender images. I love Bender. We have a Horse, Doge, 5th Fuller... none of them are telling other Hokies, even in a lame attempt at humor, to lick/kiss their ass.
This site is about Hokies first, humor second.
Well to be fair, it's entirely possible that Doge doesn't tell anyone that because he can handle it for himself.
Oh, very well played
I (Bender) love you too. Btw what kind of a name is fernley?
STOP KICKING HOAT YOU HEATHEN!
Oooo!:
Ahem! Both of you will
And
.... Or not.