A few Hokies notes from Beamer on the ACC teleconference too.
http://www.roanoke.com/sports/columns_and_blogs/blogs/andy_bitter_virgin...
Forums:
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.
A few Hokies notes from Beamer on the ACC teleconference too.
http://www.roanoke.com/sports/columns_and_blogs/blogs/andy_bitter_virgin...
Comments
In the article that kind of surprised me. Didn't know that Baltimore was in the market for a QB with Tyrod as the backup right now.
Yeah that sucks...I wish Tyrod would get his chance. Man I can't stand Flacco.
Flacco is the man, he's so boring it's amazing. Awesome Nike commercial/endorsement after the Super Bowl? Nope, Gummi Bears all up in here. Wining and Dining at the fanciest places? Nope, gotta get that Dollar Menu. Count me as Wacco for Flacco.
I'll give you that he keeps his head down and is far from flashy. I can respect that. I don't think he deserves the money he's getting, but that's not his fault, that's the fault of the Ravens. I don't like Flacco very much, after some comments he made regarding the wildcat they tried a little bit last season with TT, but he stays out of trouble and he's not a terrible QB.
regarding those comments, I don't know what he said exactly off hand, but it was along the lines of "I'm the QB, I didn't want to get hurt lining up as a WR so I didn't put any effort into blocking. I shouldn't be out there, I don't like the Wildcat..I should be under center for every single snap"
I get his point but it tells me he's more about himself and less about the team. It sounded arrogant and I didn't care for it.
This is what I don't get about Flacco-
People absolutely rip him for being laid back, and not showing enough emotion, or not taking charge or a leadership role on the team.
Then, he says something like "I want to be under center for every snap, I'm the QB" and people go berserk because now he's being selfish and it's all about him.
Imagine if Tom Brady had said something like that, people would have been like "Oh well yeah, of course, Tom Brady is the QB, it's his team." What about if Andrew Luck had said that? Or Russel Wilson? I bet you no one would have ripped them for being selfish because they wanted to do the role that they are supposed to do as quarterback. No one would say that Peyton Manning was being selfish for saying he doesn't want to run the wildcat because he wants to be in at QB every play.
I'm not a Ravens fan, though most of my family are so I get exposed to it all, but it just absolutely fascinates me how everyone hates Flacco. He doesn't have the charisma of some of these QBs, like a Russel Wilson, and he's not an arrogant you-know-what like some of the other QBs in the league, and so people hate him for it. I guess it's just amazing how much of a lightning rod you can be by trying to be a low key average-Joe (pun sort of intended) guy instead of a rockstar.
As far as the arguments to whether Flacco is any good or not? He's got a superbowl ring, and superbowl MVP, and a bunch of records that say he doesn't give two licks what those people think, and I doubt the Ravens organization does either.
it's not so much that he said he wants to be under center..it's how he said it. I originally had an issue with these statements
When I saw these quotes for the first time, I took it to mean that he didn't want to put any effort into the play. It seemed arrogant. I understand that he IS the QB and feels he should be behind the line of scrimmage for every snap. That's what QBs are for. If you're the leader of the team, though, you don't publicize how you feel about it. You give the media some fluff comment regardless of how you feel about it. If you don't like it then talk to your coaches behind closed doors. The QB is supposed to be the leader of the team and I wouldn't want my leader leaking negative vibes about anything to the media. The fact that he doesn't like the Wildcat and the team still does it indicates that there could be some friction between some of the players and coaches. Why would you say that? I don't dislike Flacco because he said he wants to take all the snaps. I dislike him for how he handled the situation. To me, it seemed unprofessional.
Eh, I think a lot of other superbowl winning QBs might have also said something along those lines.
Maybe Flacco is unfairly under a microscope, but I've never heard Tom Brady or either of the Mannings or Drew Brees say anything negative about the team or the style of play. They always have positive comments to make to the media and anything they disagree with I'm sure gets handled behind closed doors.
Brady, Manning, Manning, and Brees have never been wildcat WRs either.
Well, yeah, but their backups didn't play at Tech. So it doesn't count.
I downvoted you because you seem hell-bent on the idea that the ONLY reason anybody would dislike Flacco is because his backup is a former Hokie. I can assure you, that has NOTHING to do with it for me. I don't care who the backup QB is, if you make comments like that publicly you're not setting the right tone as the leader of your team. I don't blame Flacco for disliking the Wildcat. I don't think he's wrong to be upset about it or think it's useless. I think it's unprofessional of him to whine about it publicly. I can't respect someone who is supposed to be leading the team, and getting paid to do so, when they whine and complain about something they don't like publicly. He's a tool.
You and I have very different definitions of whining. And "tool" for that matter. Roethlisberger is a tool. Brady is a tool. Flacco? He's a laid back guy who doesn't like the spotlight.
fair enough. I don't care if you hate Flacco, love him, or are indifferent. I just want to make it clear that the fact TT is his backup has absolutely no bearing on how I view him.
If it weren't a former Hokie QB running that play that Flacco mentioned, would you even remember it? It seems like a reach for a reason to dislike a player. Logan Thomas didn't want to come out from behind center for even one play this past season and he was lauded for his leadership and character. That doesn't seem any different than Flacco to me.
Logan caught a pass downfield and had no fear of doing so. Can't say the same for Flacco. I don't think the point is that Flacco isn't a leader as much as the fact that he basically said "I'll only do what I want to do. Regardless of whether it will help my team, I'm not going to block or contribute more than what I want to contribute."
Can you really blame him? Being QB is going to make him $10s of millions more than being a receiver. By virtue of what the team is paying him he serves them best under center or they wouldn't be paying him that much money. I sure as hell wouldn't want to risk that running a few gimmicky plays and getting hurt doing something I'm not used to for limited effectivity. He didn't refuse to run those plays, he did them but maybe not 100%. They didn't do a whole lot and he doesn't want to do them or really try anything like them again. He brings more to the team as a QB than a once in a blue moon receiver where he hasn't played that position regularly or at all for a decade.
And it's true, if this wasn't Tyrod or another Hokie this would be a non issue and no one would care. Everyone wants Tyrod to get his shot and behind Flacco it's probably not going to happen.
I'm not sure there is a greater amount of risk involved in playing a few plays here and there at WR where you will, in all likelihood, not be passed the ball unless it is for a double pass than there is sitting in the backfield waiting to take a hit as the QB. The point of the play isn't to put him as a WR as much as it is to catch the other team off guard and force them to think. Force them to respect the idea that he could receive a pass that he could then pass again if played properly. Nobody is advocating that he should move to WR permanently, just that for the sake of a trick play, he could at least sell the role.
How often does Brady line up at WR? Manning? Brees, even? Aren't all of their coaches well known for being innovative? Sorry, using that tangent doesn't work.
Different risk too.
Thomas was no smaller than any of the LBs hat were going to try and tackle him. Flacco, not so much.
Logan and Flacco are about the same size. Flacco is listed at 6'6", 245.
And Flacco can take a hit but, Has he recently played a position that had him blocking and D2 ball didn't have quite the same sized tacklers chasing QB.
Well, you've got to remember - lots of people talked about Flacco possibly being drafted as a TE if his QB thing didn't work out. I mean... since we've suspended realistic discussion about this topic anyway, why not go there?
Yeah... I don't really have a dog in this fight. My opnion on Flacco is that if I was Ravens management I would have given some of the money in Joe's ridiculous contract to Anquan Boldin, who, in my opinion, was Baltimore's best offensive player during their playoff/Superbowl run. But I'm neither Ravens management nor a Ravens fan, so I don't really care too much how they spend their money or, more to the point, how they should use their personnel.
Your comment just seemed to imply there is a considerable size difference between Thomas and Flacco so I was just pointing out Flacco is also an enormous man.
I think letting Boldin go has been one of the few mistakes the Ravens have made in their entire history as an organization...
As a Redskins fan, I am in a constant state of jealousy of the ownership and management of the Ravens.
Maybe he's just worried about getting fined like Farve was for this block:
You mean the same Logan Thomas that has endlessly been discussed as being ideal for tight end? That one? Caught a pass, so that makes a comparison to Joe Flacco - who nobody ever anywhere talked about resembling a receiver - that comparison? What the point is - is why should a $20M QB not known for having the skills of a receiver, why should he line up at receiver? The second point, which we all know the answer to, is - if the backup weren't a former Hokie QB, this discussion would not occur here. It's really silly. To pretend that Flacco lining up at receiver would 'help his team'? That his disapproval isn't merited? Really?
this is actually completely irrelevant to me. I would still dislike Flacco if his backup QB was David Watford. The Wildcat QB for those gimmick plays doesn't matter. Flacco is the highest paid QB in the league and as the leader of the team he should display some good leadership. Complaining publicly about a certain set of plays is not good leadership IMO. I don't think he's a bad QB. I don't think he SHOULD play WR. I don't blame him for not wanting to line up out wide for Wildcat plays. I don't think he deserves to be paid the money he's getting paid, but again, that's not HIS fault. I don't blame him for his paycheck. But if you're going to be the highest paid person in your profession you better damn well act like it. I have an issue with him crying like a baby about it to the media. I would not want to play with him after making those kinds of comments publicly.
^^^THIS! This is exactly why I am not a fan of Flacco. If you are the highest paid QB
in the NFL (which I'm still not sure why) then you do what is asked of you and don't complain
about it. Especially publicly.
Except he's not the highest paid QB in the league...
He's 11th this year...
16th next year...
3rd in 2016...
And finally #1 in 2017
And we all know those numbers for 2016 and 2017 will be wildly different than what they actually are now in a few years.
Exactly. How does that work out? He's not worth his pay.
I think he is.
If you don't think so then watch and see as he drops down the pay scales in reference to other QBs as new contracts get signed over the next few years.
... he's not worth his pay? He's not even in the top 10 and he is one year removed from a superbowl MVP and the greatest 5 year span for any QB ever.
You are saying Flacco had the greatest 5 year span for a QB ever? What?!?
He had 19 TD's last year to 22 interceptions. He was pretty weak last year and maybe that is why they are looking for a QB. He had a QB rating of 73.1
That's 32 ranked in the NFL last year. Some of the guys ahead of him?
EJ Manual
Case Keenum
Kellen Clemens
Christian Ponder
Mike Glennon
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Andy Dalton
Chad Henne
How do you figure he had the best 5 year span ever?
In his first 5 years as a starting NFL QB, Joe Flacco won more games than any QB ever in a 5 year span. That's what I mean. Because in football, winning isn't everything, it's the only thing.
Also, "one year removed" would imply I'm talking about the year before last.
EDIT: Anyone who actually followed the Ravens last year would understand why with 1 good receiver and a sieve for an offensive line would understand why Flacco and the whole Ravens offense struggled last year. In fact, you could even look no farther than VT's last two years to have a good understanding of how a lack of talent around a QB can mean very bad statistics for a QB.
Anyone who thinks the Ravens are looking for a starter to replace Joe Flacco this year is insane. Especially considering the reports are talking about interest in Logan, who I think we all realize is not ready to be a starter in the NFL this year.
I know most Hokie fans don't want to hear it, but the Ravens are shopping for a cheaper replacement for Tyrod, not for Joe Flacco.
I don't think anybody thinks they are trying to replace Flacco, some people just think that he is vastly overrated for a QB. He is a good QB not elite, most of those wins were the result of good coaching, a strong running game, a strong defense, and a QB that didn't screw it up. That is how Trent Difler won his SB ring.
You must not have watched the Ravens in 2012 if you think they won the superbowl the way Trent Dilfer did.
I didn't think Flacco was being replaced this year. That would be ridiculous. If Flacco were to have a few years like he did last year, then he could be in danger. I was thinking more towards the future for them. As you know, highly paid QB's that aren't performing up to their past level are at risk to become cap casualties if they have a few bad seasons.
Also, let's not forget - There will be the inevitable 'We need to restructure your contract for cap room' conversation. Thus Flacco will have to reduce his salary. Once it is all said & done, he will be reviled by some for obtuse reasons, all of which boil down to having made a lot of money. I heard Colin Cowherd pose the question once - why do people resent athletes for signing big contracts? If they were business leaders it wouldn't matter. It's pretty interesting, the dynamic.
That's why I said the QB comparisons for salary will be wildly different by the time 2016 and 2017 roll along. There will be other QB contracts that dwarf Flacco's, and he'll still probably wind up restructuring his contract for less. The only thing that really matters in a contract is the current year, and maybe up to a maximum of the first three years. After that, it doesn't mean squat.
My post was in agreement with yours, it just was separated by the earlier replies. Lest we forget, this is a tangent from Flacco being disliked because he wasn't enthusiastic about playing WR in an offense that featured the backup former Hokie QB.
So does Trent Dilfer, so I don't buy the superbowl ring QB.
I did not know Trent was a SB MVP and had an amazing, recordbreaking run for his first 5 seasons as starting QB.
See the things you learn on TKP.
Not to mention - why run your $20M QB at WR for even one play? Can't you create something else to beat the defense without that risk? As for Flacco's tone of speech being offensive to some, that reminds me of how some Hokie fans still hate Aaron Rodgers because he was 'smiling too much' on the sidelines during a bowl game against us when he was in college. For smiling while winning. In college! Silliness...
Even though we lost that game that was one of the best Hokie Bowl games I can remember. Two evenly matched teams battling to see who could score last. A game not known for defense on either side.
I have no issue with Aaron Rodgers
Ravens structured his contract so that average fans think Joe is overpaid, the reality is he was paid maybe slightly bettter than the second tier NFL QB that he is. I think the Ravens and Joe understand one another, and the NFL QBs probably understand who is getting paid who is not.
With the year he had I was surprise the Ravens negotiated that well. But if you look at the tape, there was a lot of luck behind that run, and maybe maybe Champ Bailey was on payroll or owed someone alot of money.
Huge misconception. Flacco's contract was very back-heavy. It was designed to free up cap space in the immediate future with the intent of being restructured later.
Yup- NFL management rule #1: Contracts apply only to players, they mean nothing to the employers. Easily canceled or restructured so you can pay less than what you originally agreed to pay a player.
Why do you think so many players hold out for as much money as they can possibly get in a contract? Because they almost never get even close to the money they're originally promised.
Restructuring only means that they spread the same amount of money over more time and/or convert it to signing bonus. It does not mean that money goes away. It's the NFL's version of buying something with a credit card. The only way to get out of paying salary is to release the player. In that case all signing bonus money owed to the player is accelerated to that year's salary cap.
Yes, so they restructure and spread the money out, and then cut them. The NFL doesn't care or honor contracts to the players, the players just have to honor the contracts they make to the teams.
The players usually agree to restructure because it means they're going to get more guaranteed money in the long run. They still get something out of the deal. Usually millions of somethings.
The players do NOT get more guaranteed money out of restructuring the vast majority of the time. What they 'get' is to keep playing for the same team. The players typically do not benefit from a restructuring because the owners in the NFL hold ALL the leverage.
The contracts aren't cancelled. Only our government cancels contracts. Certain years are guaranteed. Cancelling during those years is not allowed or if you write it into the contract then you can cancel but it triggers a clause... so its not really guaranteed in the first place. Other years are at the teams discretion. They can cut, waive you etc. If the team wants it can keep the player for the contract terms. Now if the player is really hot he might decide he needs to holdout or other in order to increase his pay AT ANY TIME DURING THE CONTRACT. The NFL teams usually give in but not always.
Contracts are confusing, but if football is making you think 99% of entities in this country don't honor contracts, you need to put some more padding in your helmet.
Who said this?
I thought his contract ended.
I saw this article from the ravens website that was pretty interesting. Tyrod is in his last year of his rookie contract and the Ravens have only carried 2 QBs on the roster into the regular season while Tyrod has been there. I just don't see Ravens selecting LT though, think it would make more sense for them to bring in a veteran free agent if they wanted to give Tyrod competition.
Cool, thanks for looking that up, I knew it ended soonish.. As much as I like the Ravens, I hope LT doesn't go there. Tyrod seems like he could be a starter for a fair number of teams but got buried on the depth chart by Flacco, and I hope LT gets more of a chance to thrive like I think he will in the NFL
A lot of NFL teams are going with only 2 QBs now. I listened to some NFL talking heads discussing this last preseason. I think it was a tangent from a Tebow question, but the point seems to be the current NFL mindset is that the ideal scenario for teams is this - find your QB who can lead you to the playoffs. If he is young, have an older backup journeyman to mentor him and offer a safe alternative in case of injury. If the starter is a veteran, then keep a young backup that doesn't cost a lot and will serve as a bandaid in case of injury during a game. There are enough serviceable journeymen floating around to trade for one if your starter shreds a knee or arm. Then you can cycle through young backups while you pay your starter big bucks. That is why Tyrod's backup slot might be replaceable by the Ravens. They can always find another young QB of his caliber via the draft or that has been around a couple of years. It's cost effective, especially when you consider how few plays guys like Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Flacco, etc. actually sit.
I still think the place that makes the most sense for Logan to land is Pittsburgh, which pains me because I absolutely hate the Steelers and their fanbase. He would be under no pressure to play. Ben and and him have the same body type and strong arm. You could coach him up behind Ben as the heir apparent for when Ben moves on or retires (or inevitably is injured). If you do have to plug him in there is almost no modification to your playbook.
Only problem with that is they expended a pick last year on Landry Jones for supposedly that reason. Then again that pick even had Steeler fans shaking their heads.
Not a bad landing spot for LT, I agree. How about the Raiders? They have Matt Schaub at QB. If they don't pick a QB with the first pick, LT could learn behind Schaub for 2 years. The Raiders are a team that seems to take chances. (althought it didn't work out with Terrelle Pryor and that might make them shy away)
I could see Green Bay taking a flyer on him also. They have no one behind Rogers.
There are plenty of teams that need a QB. If they don't get one of the top tier guys, LT is going to see mighty attractive when the 3rd round comes around.
Not saying GB won't take a flyer on him, but as far as back up QBs go, Matt Flynn is pretty solid.
For the Packers, not sure about anybody else. But GB has said they want to pick up at least one more QB for competition going into camp.
My personal hope is that Logan lands in Cincinnati
That would be a great fit. I'm personally pulling for New Orleans
NEVER!
What about the Hokies besides LT3?
San Fran is listed in almost every mock draft as grabbing him if he is still on the board at #30. Putting him along side Eric Reid could be a nasty combo for the Niners.
I just heard that the Cowboys said if Johnny Football is around at the 16th pick, they'll take him. Concerns about Tony Romo's back, you know. Well, at least we know that Johnny F will stay under the radar that way...
Sweet Lord, please don't let Dallas replace Romo......ever.
No, by drafting Johnny Football and having him as the backup would create exponential drama & publicity for the Cowboys. Talk about saturation levels, it would be hilarious.