Some interesting things:
- He doesn't seem to concerned with "Stick It In". I've liked the chant, BUT he has bigger things to deal with.
- Less commercialized "scripts" at games
- Paint scheme on the field will be a little bit different, but still traditional.
- No drastic changes to the uniforms. VT on all helmets (Thank God)
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Comments
If you're tellin me that we're actually going to be using colored paint on the fields instead of just using the extra white paint from the lines, I might lose my fucking mind right here in my office.
Dont know why but this cracked me up.
I just wish they would do something like making the 20 yard line, or 25 since that's where touchbacks go to now, with a maroon and orange stripe on either side.
What if they brought back this endzone paint scheme.... My brother and I pulled up some of the paint after this game was over. It is framed and in my dad's Hokie Room.
I LOOOOOOOOOOVED that design. The only change I would make is to color the background of the endzone in maroon, paint the VT white, and do orange&white outlined 'HOKIES' in the font we use on our basketball jerseys.
That's sweet. I didn't remember the field looking like that (I was 7, lay off me). But that's really good looking, even if it is a little Cheesy and 90's'ish, but screw it. I'm a nineties bitch.
This was one of the best endzone schemes - and personally my favorite, only because it is the one I grew up remembering. When I got to VT, they removed this paint and did not have much on the field for several seasons.
Ugh... Yeah, I loathed it when they stopped painting the field. The excuse for it was even worse, that they weren't doing it because players kept slipping on the paint (you know, because the paint on other fields had like super sticky powers or something...). Then the 2004 season came, and they HAD to put the ACC logo on the field, so they put the smallest ones they could make that would be legible on TV, and did a chalk pure white 'VIRGINIA TECH' in both end zones before finally giving in and doing what we have now. (and even then it still took to something like 2008 before the VT was allowed to remain at midfield).
Ha- I remember that reasoning! The paint that I pulled up from after the BC game had cleat holes clearly marked... I wonder which teams' players were complaining
*looks at* UVA
One of Weaver's other excuses was that the paint killed the grass. Because... you know, we're a strong ag school and don't understand what the rest of the nation does to keep their grass from dying. Stupidity like that is what irritates a fan base and alienates consumers. A decade later, and it still resonates. That's how small minded Weaver was, how FAR he missed the mark as an AD. If he were just honest and said (either) 'Frank doesn't like it, he wants the Notre Dame minimalist look' OR 'I don't think the expense is worth the effort in branding.' (I'll take option B) Of course, I doubt seriously that Weaver ever understood the verb - 'branding'
I also wonder if it is true about Hokie Stone around the stadium at field level. Weaver would say that it was a distance issue from the field and a safety concern. The field looks so far from the walls to me...and the walls that are close have pads on them.
Other stadiums have walls that are super close to the field and look at ND with the band and bleachers feet from the line.
I know Kevin Jones got injured against JMU, but it took a crazy and dirty play for him to get close to the wall. I've never seen a player get close it (not including that play).
Cause...you know...Hokie Stone is harder than the poured concrete the wall currently are...
Weaver logic...can't beat it!
technically, yes it is. But compared to a player, that's negligible.
Not to get OT but, the sentiment here encapsulates so perfectly much of what I feel about the Weaver tenure and fan relations. Underestimating the intelligence of the fan base just leaves your customers not wanting to be engaged.
Agree. I loved that endzone scheme. I believe that was the last year that they had it as well. Forever we just had some blank endzones like we were a pee-wee league team or something. High Schools have nicer endzones than we did. I don't like the plain Virginia Tech in the endzone either. Truly liked the endzone in the picture. They need to get back to that or something like it. I also remember them saying that they paint was killing the grass. Not like we don't have a turf and grass management major at our school. That was just a retarded excuse. I guess the paint on all other parts of the field was fine just the endzone grass was finicky or something.
I still have my piece of the endzone from that game too. What I wouldn't give for an experience like that in Lane again!!!
What I wouldn't give for another player like MV7 again. Sigh
Has there been another player like Vick at QB?
Closest that I have scene in the past 15 years has been Reggie Bush's dominance. He made everyone else look like they were playing a different game; but alas, even that was at RB.
Closest at Qb has gotten be Tyrod in my opinion, unless I am missing someone other lightning quick QB out there on some other team.
Maybe Vince Young.
No, no, no. Not even close. Only MV5 (minus the attitude and off field legal bs) had the talent and that's because he was related.
In fact, wasn't VY originally a WR before he was converted to QB?
Vince Young was dominant in that NC game.
I think Vick was the most exciting college football player of all time, but VY was one guy I thought of.
The only reason he was so "dominant" was because he was a) facing a worst coast D, b) they didn't scheme well enough against him and c) he wasn't squaring off against Foster.
Ah, yes. Good call, I forgot about Vince Young.
I think he is working at a Subway near my building. I should stop in and ask him about that national title game against USC.
RG3? Manziel was similar to Vick, but also very different. But, no I don't think any QB has ever been electric as MV7.
Michael Vick I think is a once in a generation, possibly lifetime type player. You can't make plans based on landing that kind of talent.
sCam Newton maybe? He was no Vick but he definitely took what I would have considered an 8-9 win Auburn team and made them National Champs.
I don't think it was just him, pretty sure the offensive minded genius had a large part with that.
It was largely Cam. Speaking as a Panthers fan, that guy can make a lethargic offense do a 180 all by himself. And make it look relatively easy.
Never be another
Part of the reason for that and the reason we won't see another player like that, at least not in the same way, is because Vick started the whole "mobile" qb movement (no pun intended). Defenses didn't know how to game plan because no one had ever seen anything like that. Its just not how the position was played and its not the same as like a wildcat direct snap. QBs were meant for passing first and running never. In this day and age, I'd bet Jonny Football and RGIII are just as talented as Vick, but they're playing against defenses that know what to expect now. I'd equate this to Oregon's up tempo offense. When Chip first started the no huddle thing, defenses didn't know how to stop it because it was too fast and they weren't prepared. But they caught on quickly this time and numerous teams all over have adapted their own style of up-tempo/spread.
I'm not sure I can agree with that. There have always been running QBs from Fran Tarkenton to Steve Young (in my lifetime) that drove defenses crazy. And there have been run first, pass second QB's - like many from Oklahoma and Nebraska, for example.
Vick was just sooo good at both. I don't think anyone could run like him, and he was incredibly adept at passing, too - particularly the long ball. He was/is the best, IMO. Guys like Tyrod and Manziel bring a lot to the table, for sure, but Vick was just magical in college. Other D coordinators had plenty of time to figure out a way to stop him - in college AND the pros. No one was doing it before the whole jail episode ensued.
I will say, that's something to miss...
A QB with an arm to get the ball down the field and a quick ass receiver that could get downfield to catch it.
Scott Frost was a beast.
This guy is in my top 10.
burger king (youtube 24 secs)
One thing that MV has is to ability to sense pressure coming and make a ridiculous move to avoid a sack. Almost like he has eyes in the back of his head. I have never seen anyone else be able to avoid the rush the way he does. Combine that with his quickness and speed and he is just amazingly elusive. No one else can make those moves.
Tyrod was the closest to that insane escapability.
I think they were almost tuned into the crowd's reaction. They just knew something was coming by the collective gasps/noises.
You think T-Mobe is faster than MV5? Is he?
being chased by cops makes everyone run faster. advantage loser vick
Yes, yes. We all know. But who (according to statistics) is/was faster: T-Mobe or MV5?
we don't know, we will never know. literally a tossup. why are you so *obsessed* with MV5?
MV5 4.28:T-Mobe 4.51
I guess my appreciation stems from the 34-17 the last game against (and at) Mountainqueer field (middle finger included) and the total and utter destruction of the Hoos on their field 52-14.
Manziel might be the GOAT at escaping.
Liberty's current head coach, Turner Gill, was an able runner when he played at Nebraska in the early 80s.
Wait a minute. No hokie tracks? No all-black with circuit board numbers? No piping? Not even...the single orange sleeve? Man, what were the equipment guys thinking back then?
I'm right there with you! True Hokies stick it in!
The biggest improvement to the field will be on August 30th when they put some players on it and turn on the scoreboard.
Whit spoke last night at the Richmond Hokie Club Kickoff dinner and was very good. He mingled with the crowd the entire cocktail hour, which was awesome.
While he is not concerned about the "Stick it In" chant, he definitively said he would NOT allow it out of respect of Dr. Steger and Jim Weaver.
If he's not concerned about it then he won't stay in the thousand's of fans way as they use it. STICK IT IN will NEVER die.
I would be for maroon background, with Virginia Tech in white, with orange as the outline of Virginia Tech..... like our helmets. Maybe have it say Hokies on the other endzone. Big ass VT in maroon on the 50 yard line.
I was really hoping we could have a Hokie Bird similar to this in the middle of the field
/sarcastica
STAY OUT OF MY NIGHTMARES, FOGHORN TURKEYLEGHORN!
I was really hoping for the hokie tracks on the 50 also sarcastic
If I got to choose, I'd take something essentially that. Virginia Tech in one, Hokies in the other, with paint scheme as you said. Also, a BIG AZZ VT in the middle of the field. Larger than what we have now. What we have now is fine, but if I were choosing, I'd make it larger.
Right. With maroon and orange lines at the 20s. I'd like to see a painted border around the field also.
A big ass Maroon VT, to be exact.
That being said, you know I always thought the HokeBird head would look pretty good at midfield.
Wish I hadn't missed it. There are two things that would greatly improve my experience on Saturdays that I would have loved to ask:
A) Why do the cheerleaders hardly ever lead "Let's Go Hokies" cheers anymore during timeouts? They did it a lot more with the old cheerleading coach. I think it gets the crowd into the game just a bit more and needs to happen more often.
B) Can we get some score updates from other games on the video board? I sit in the south endzone and cannot see the updates shown on small screens in the south endzone. They did a better job of this later in the season last year, and I hope they continue to do better.
Two very solid recommendations. I did hear that we will be getting bombarded with less commercials on the scoreboards in the future, so that will help, too.
I saw that. The commercials don't bother me too much though. We have to make money after all. I would just love to see them scroll some score updates along the bottom of the screen whilst showing them. The screens plenty big enough to pull it off. Hell, kill two birds, let someone sponsor the score update and cover the whole screen. I don't care. Just show me some updates since my phone is useless in the stadium.
They need better ad placement on replays. Like last year's Marshall game, when we're trying to see the blocked kick, and the ad logo covers the one part of the play we need to see.
Ads aren't to bad. And ESPN show's the game with plenty of Ads. But 14 ads for a sponsor in a game just to put any ad up on the screen is pointless to me
The ads have never bothered me. I like having Carillion, nTelos, and Kroger giving us money.
I don't like it when the ads are the loudest thing to come out of the scoreboard. I do like it when Sandman is deafening.
To be fair, we're not Georgia Tech. We don't need much more than Enter Sandman and a few ads coming out of our scoreboard to make the stadium loud.
While we are talking about scores, can they change the scores actually shown on the SEZ scoreboard to only show top 25 and ACC games? Sometimes it shows ridiculous 1-AA scores between 2 out of state schools. Also I don't even know if it needs to waste time showing upcoming games.
I think Whit has been as polite as possible in giving the message that 'Stick it In' isn't returning. Folks need to move on to more serious topics when taking advantage of his access. As for the more traditional uniform looks, I think that next season will show the full extent of what he means, and I support it 100%. It's beyond time we promote the VT Hokie brand, not try to shuffle a deck of uniform options. As for field paint, take a cue from the uniforms. It might be bolder, but it will look old school, which SHOULD appeal to anyone Hokie. I didn't know about the blog in time, but it's really energizing to see him do it. Also this reminder - the guy is taking fan input unfiltered - something nobody else in all of VT athletics was doing when he was hired. Don't abuse it, folks. Give him good feedback (positive or negative), not juvenile stuff. He's a treasure, let's remember that.
I call bullshit.
AW HELL NAH!
There are more important things in football than the Stick It In chant
True Hokies STICK IT IN
Ugh, how could we forget....
He clearly is referring to bringing back The Goodbye Song.
Like actually sticking it in. Like a lot. Like the '99 Syracuse game.
Agreed. He has a lot of important things to get to. I'm not an opponent of Stick It In but I really couldn't care any less about it, and if there's going to be a fan-motivated change we can get him to take on, I'd rather see a substantive change in an important area, as opposed to focusing on something that I personally feel is trivial.
I'd like to see him take on something along these lines:
http://online.wsj.com/articles/why-college-football-is-studying-major-le...
If they're going to look to soccer for ideas, I wish they'd look at relegation.
Argument here:
http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2012/5/14/3018796/college-football-relegation-realignment-american-sports
Simulated results here:
http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2012/5/17/3025448/conference-football-relegation
I know it's old news and will probably never happen, but it's fun to think about.
Not to be outdone, UVA also says they will begin using colored paint on their field
I always have a leg for this.
I want to leg this SO BADLY...but 38-0, bro.
I had to do it. It was on 38 when I legged it. It was an honor.
Invent the Future.
You're not going to let this go are you?
And I ain't the only one either.
Well you seem to be the only one here making a stink about it...
On here, for now, yes. But there are others. Oh yes, there are others...
You're comparing support for the STICK IT IN chant to a fictitious portrayal of a Civil War battle...seriously?
Uhhhh....I just don't know what to say with this. That pic isn't of a dude in "blackface"...is it? I sure hope not.
*uncomfortable silence*
So first you were comparing support for STICK IT IN to a fictitious portrayal of a Civil War battle (where people actually died and lost family) and then you make a joke about Office Space reaction by posting up an awkward pic of a guy that suspiciously looks like he's in "blackface" and finally you depict my Star Trek reaction to some sort of car racing video game? Yeah, ok. I'm not really sure where you're going with this but J Law say
Can we now talk about this Ray Rice 2 game suspension for beating his wife/dragging her out of an elevator vs a 4-6 game ban for testing positive for adderall?? WTF unreal
I think we all want Stick It In back, but Whit has said his piece. To keep going on and on about it is kinda silly. As far as all the references...
Jokes are flying over your head, but I'll give you a leg just for J Law.
Again, STICK IT IN stays.
Thank you for Jennifer Lawrence, but this is a little off:
If it's fictitious, then only fictitious people died, not actual people...
I'm guessing someone's never seen Tropic Thunder starring Robert Downey Jr
I see what you did there. You really do know that the "blackface" pic is Robert Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder. You're running along with the joke stream.
(Please be truePlease be truePlease be truePlease be truePlease be truePlease be truePlease be truePlease be true)
No that's a picture of "a dude, playing a dude whose playing a dude."
"I'm the dude playin' the dude disguised as another dude!"
Wore my maroon stick it in shirt last weekend...
You...YOU, are a hero and TRUE inspiration to HOKIE NATION!
I feel you
Maybe we could try the reverse? Chant "Stick it Out" when the opposing offense is in the redzone?
"Don't allow it in!"
"Not now!" "We have a headache!!!"
"Fill that hole!" to encourage our linebackers?
"Deny their pussy touchdowns"
We already have one. It's called " DE-FENCE! CLAP CLAP! DE-FENCE!"
I have literally never heard that in Lane. The defensive cheer is just yelling as loud as you can..
Hey! I know the guy in the middle picture!
late to the party.
You know what...so do I. They need to brang dat shit back. Btw, if I haven't said this before I admire your signature. I presume the BAP is in reference to Roc Carmichael?
that is correct sir, hes one of my good friends. actually was up in philly couple weeks ago hanging with him and davon during mini camp.
my son and roc and davon at dave and busters in philly we whopped them in basketball lol
i actually wish theyd bring back the tribute ribbon that was on the field during the 2007 season. it really didnt stick out too much and i thought it was a really good classy sign of unity from the school after the shooting. it was a subtle way of showing support and respect. Clemson does a tribute ribbon to vets with american flag colors on their field so i know other schools do it. i dont know why we ever stopped doing it. i loved the uniforms that season with the tribute patch on the shoulder too. idk if there is enough support for the orange tribute ribbon to get back on the field but i wish whit could get it back on.
I agree, I really do think we should have a permanent Memorial on the field for those who passed on April 16th, but I am not sure putting the ribbons back would be the way to do it. I'd really prefer something a little more subtle, yet powerful...
I think blacking out the 32 yard hashes on both sides of the field would accomplish this very well.
I love the 32 yard line idea. Subtle. But yet those of us who know, will neVer forgeT.
really like the idea of doing something with the 32 yard line. good call. easy to do and important.
Awesome idea, we need to get this to Whit now. Easily done and very powerful
how about the eye(s) of the Hokie bird faded out all around, kind of like LSU does with the tiger eye on their field at the 50 yard line. I kid, but kinda cool if done right
I'd like to see some kind of design using the Hokie Bird's fantail
Wish I had gone to the Richmond Hokie Club banquet this year. Always a good time - and I met Erin Andrews there a few years ago!
The one question I tried to get Whit to answer is about student tickets. I suggested/asked if there were any plans to move from paper tickets for student season tickets, to something not paper so that there are NO MORE PAPER AIRPLANES... Options include:
1. An app on your phone that has a QR code that you scan when coming into the game
2. Laminated piece that you get hole punched for each game down at the bottom (Lanyard included!!)
3. Anything but paper..
This would eliminate paper airplanes and also help the school eliminate fraudulent activity. (I don't really personally care about the fraudulent activity part but its a bonus for the school)
I may be wrong, but I seem to remember plastic cards similar to a Hokie Passport used for season tickets back in 2008. I can't imagine it would be that difficult to tie the Hokie P in to the ticketing system so that they are scanned and your tickets are tied to it.
The only problem with this approach is the legitimate transfer of tickets between students. If I can't make it to a game, I should be able to just hand over my ticket to a friend. If it's on the Hokie P, that's tough to do, or it simply adds too much overhead for the Athletic Department to handle (at least, that's what they'd argue).
I hated having to keep track of the extra card for the whole season. If you lost that, they would not issue a replacement and you were screwed for the rest of the season. Since the Hokie P can be replaced, that's great, but not without issues.
Really I think the easiest thing to do is for them to stop cheaping out on tickets. I used to get actual, printed tickets in the mail before the season started. I have every single ticket stub from every game (I intend to do something artistic with them one of these days). You couldn't fold those up into a paper airplane, and they were sturdy paper that resisted rain. I also hated the fact that we were charged a $15 "convenience fee" to have something automatically emailed to us, that we had to use our own paper and ink to print...
YES... go back to the actual season tickets - those were awesome. I always remember being amped up when they would arrive in the mail, because I knew the school year and football season were right around the corner.
Another suggestion I could make... Just go with electronic tickets that can be scanned from a smartphone using a free app that is designed by Virginia Tech. Have your PID be the login and your ticket book will automatically be loaded up the second you pay for your season tickets. And if you don't get season tickets, then you can sign up for the lottery within the app as well. If you get a ticket via the lottery, the ticket automatically shows up when you sign in. It would have a bar code that can be read by current scanners... I don't see what the problem is with that. Oh, and it would allow for the secure electronic transfer of tickets from one PID to another before games for students who can't go.
The only costs associated with this app would be the cost to develop. The technology is already there for this system to work... Ticketmaster has been using it for years already. Its time to get with the times.
What if you don't have a smart phone. My Roomate last year literally had a flip phone and a laptop. No Facebook or anything. I know that is an extreme but I'm sure there are some students who couldn't access an app from any of their devices.
That is an excellent question, Aaron. I see you were on tv during a basketball game. What fun! You are the definition of what a true hokie is.
Oh I agree, ticket transfer is an obstacle with the Hokie P, but that was the advantage of the separate card. Just hand the card over to your friend and it's done. I do think it would be easy to do a ticket transfer system internal to the Hokie Passport system. You would just need the other person's PID and it would get transferred from your account to theirs.
Oh definitely, given the CS abilities at VT, I imagine an undergrad could write that web interface in 20 minutes. I just think it's something the ticketing office would use as an excuse. "Oh, but it means more work..."
Other schools use the student ID for ticket inscription, so I don't see why we can't.
Ticket transfers are built into the system as well.
I wish we would go to General Admission - First Come First Seated for North Endzone. Penn State does FCFS for thier student section to the point that students wait for hours to enter the stadium each game.
Oh I wish we could do this and I almost suggested it, but can you imagine the bitch-fit the Greek community would have during Homecoming? My opinion is that NEZ is for SEASON ticket holders and should be FCFS. After that, there's a section of East stands that is also season ticket holders only and also FCFS. Then the rest of student seating is still FCFS for lottery.
Wow - yea, definitely forgot about the bitch fit potential... that could be awful.
Good idea- get the loyal students who have season tickets into the NEZ... a definite way to make the NEZ nuts again.
Ehhh I dunno... When I was a student, I MUCH preferred the East Stands, because you actually got to follow the game. Always felt that being able to see the field was a bit of a reward for upperclassmen.
East stands are much better for that exact reason. You can see plays develop.
I had season tickets as a student (the ones you got in the mail) and always sat on the east side.
I agree completely - I always preferred the East Stands. But the NEZ could use those fans that just want to scream their heads off the entire game and go completely nuts- we need a way to make the NEZ atmosphere like the early to mid 2000's again..
Love the general admission idea. I think that Whit & Co. didn't have enough time to revamp processes for this season, but hopefully they'll be on it for next year. Some kids want North, some want East. Some want to be right next to the band, some want to be as close to the 50 as possible. Give them the option! If you're that serious about it, you'll get there early to get your favorite seat. Oh, you want to sit with a group? You gotta arrive together. Oh, your group wants to be in the NEZ? Better get there early! While you're at it, make a ton of noise in the stadium before the game and help Lane skyrocket back to top of football atmospheres.
also, just throwin this out there for the record, PSU has no place in this discussion. If our student section EVER looked like theirs, we would lose it. There are always thousands of empty seats unless they're playing UM or OSU
Yes! I think if you give them the option, then 1) less students trying to duck into a section to get with friends, 2) more crazier/louder sections.
PSU does have more student tickets available than VT - but larger university, larger stadium, ipso facto, etc...
BTW - love the name - Hopslam Hokie.
After what just happened with anOSU's band director, I'd say that was the nail in the coffin for Stick It In. The university admin, VT athletics, and the MVs won't give another thought to bringing back Stick It In after the sexually offensive nature of what happened at anOSU.
Good point.
The hell it does! As long as there are fans that take up the roll and pass it on to their kids and friends it will NEVER DIE. TRUE HOKIES STICK IT IN!
Bro. We get it.
Just as an FYI, there are plenty of fans that were there (and are still around) that didn't have this as part of games when we were in school, and somehow we survived, won conference titles, had a great time at games, and don't troll on and on about little silly things during a FOOTBALL GAME!!! And we're still around, supporting the Hokies!
True Hokies support their team, attend games, and respect the fans around them. Oh yeah, and celebrate conference wins and the Commonwealth Cup.
True Hokie is a dumb description anyway.
Everyone who affiliates themselves with VT is a Hokie. If you have ever taken a class at Tech, or if you have married into a Hokie family, or if you just affiliated yourself with the school, it doesn't matter. We are all Hokies. A concept that the school actively embraces, which is why there are no annual dues to be a member of the VT Alumni Association. Once you graduate, you're a member for life, because we are all Hokies for life. Nobody's blood is more orange or maroon thicker than anyone else's.
Put it this way, if there are True Hokies, that means there are False Hokies, and that's an absurd concept.
Agreed.
(The only people I would call False Hokies are the ones that root for lolUVA AND Tech...just sayin.)
If you root for VT and ____.... I mean, you're still a Hokie... You're just a very troubled one
I believe you meant there are NO annual dues to be a member of the VT Alumni Association.
Boy I really screwed that up, didn't I?
Take a leg, you've earned it
The TH designation also sniffs of the clique-ish nature of another message board, and not in a flattering way.
I'm not going to engage in a large, drawn out discussion over it as I see some others are doing... but, It's not about "somehow we survived", it's about having the best possible atmosphere and gameday experience possible, I mean we survived without Metallica, but I'd prefer we keep it. The longer removed we are from the last "Stick It In!" chant the less people will remember there was such a thing, and while we have managed to win championships without it, it is definitely a unique piece of Hokie gameday experience that I wish they would bring back
I think as long as there are fans that cherish and choose to remember and pass it on, and as long as the vids are kept on youtube, it will never be forgotten.
It was dead long before this, but yeah, you're right. Absolutely no way its making a comeback now.
Which is fine. We have much better traditions than that worth keeping around anyway
Yeah, you wish buddy.
Can we just stop this. We get it. You like it.
NEVEERRR!!!
in fact
Ok. No really...FUCK NO!
Come and make me
Hokieknight getting on his war paint and digging in for the 'Stick it in' battle:
That's what she said...
I certainly hope she's not, shouldn't really be a battle for her...
We get that you're passionate about Stick It In. I wish it was back, too. The fact is though, it won't be. There are much more important things to address with our Athletic Department than one cheer for when our offense gets into the Red Zone. So please, just stop.
Exactly...like actually getting into the Red Zone. Sigh.
That I can give you. But isn't that Loeffler's deal to fix?
Damn the red zone!!! I want the endzone!!! Don't DMPT!!!
I thought about giving you another leg for J Law, but at this point I'm not encouraging you.
From the OSU investigation report:
See, this is why we can't have "Stick it in" as a chant. People actually do this, and no, true hokies do not 'Stick it in' in this context.
The part that stuck out to me the most in this excerpt is that a band member was dating a cheerleader
talk about batting above your average....
Not uncommon really. We just had a member of the band (color guard) marry one of the football players. Kinda insulting to say that just because someone is in the band means they have low social status. This isn't high school.
Hey, even in high school it wasn't that way. Not for mine anyways. A fifth of our high school was in the band, including a few cheerleaders and football players. But yeah in college any stigma that was there goes out the window.
whoa, whoa, whoa...
please tell me you are being sarcastica because that is a huge leap you're making for that comparison
Thank you (was waiting for someone to point this out).
You realize that "Stick it in" is a metaphor for sexual penetration, right? Rape is forced sexual penetration. It's not a logical leap at all, and there's a reason why people are offended by the "Stick it in" chant. I'm not personally offended by this chant, but it's easy to see why people (especially rape victims) get offended if they go to a game and hear a lot of people shouting it in unison.
ok, apologies for the post. disparate associations are a pet peeve of mine, especially about topics like these.
1) a metaphor you say? I'll forgo any condescending "master of the obvious" quips and just say there are metaphors for sex in so much of our daily life that ruling this one thing as too sexually charged is way too naive.
2) same goes for you explaing what Rape is, but actually for your info rape does not need to involve forced penetration. I was a rape counsellor while at VT (and afterwards for a time) and this also is a naively limited explanation.
3) Rape and "Stick it in" are in no way linked unless you personally make it so. I "stick it in" to my wife all the time (barney style self five!) and I'm not raping her. your association is yours and yours alone. mine is different than yours. and neither your association or mine applies to the rest of the fans.
3) associating rape in a generalized way to apply to things that are not actually associated to it is demeaning to those that have gone through it. mostly victims want people to treat them normally and not got super sensitive about everything to do with sex. why, because mostly they want to get past it. you getting upset that a chant, albeit rife with sexual innuendo, but otherwise just a chant is actually making most victims feel like they have a spotlight on them. precisely what the majority of victims do not want. so stop doing it.
4) this is college. a time when young men and woman explore their and society's limits of sexual interaction. sometimes they go way over the line (anOSU band) other times its just something giggle worthy that has sexual innuendo (stick it in). those fans going to a college football game should not be so quick to forget what college life is like and get so upset that students are making sexual references or sexually charged movements. if this does offend you then choose not to go or to enjoy other sporting events. but the moment you step on campus you are in that environment with 10's of thousand young adults with raging hormones and no parental supervision.
so yes, it is a HUGE leap you are making, and one that shouldn't be made at all. i personally want the chant back. is it going to ruin my game day experience if it isn't? no. but as an adult, alumni and a parent i know what environment i am walking into and i'm not naive enough to think my presence and personal objections are going to change that environment. instead i am going to enjoy that enviroment and if something happens that i find objectionable deal with it like an adult by either speaking to that person, leaving or asking security for help. but people yelling stick it in and occasionally thrusting hips is not going to bother me one bit.
1) Yeah, I use a lot of sexual metaphors too, but I also don't chant those things with thousands of other people.
2) I know that rape doesn't need to involve forced penetration, but please tell me how all cases of forced penetration are not rape.
3) It doesn't matter what you personally associate to it if you're not offended. On the other hand, telling a rape victim that they should just stop associating a rant in which everyone repeatedly shouts "Stick it in" with rape is way more naive than making that association in the first place.
3) It is highly unlikely that anonymous victims in the stands "feel like they have a spotlight on them". Empathizing with rape victims on how this chant might be offensive to them is not demeaning. It is surprising that a former rape counselor cannot see how a school chant involving thousands of people shouting "Stick in in" would not be offensive or uncomfortable for a gang rape victim. If you can tell a gang rape victim to his or her face that this is a huge leap, then you are being more than just demeaning.
4) This chant obviously crossed some line, or else it wouldn't be banned. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff that goes on in the stands, but anything sanctioned by the school needs to not cross lines that drunken college students otherwise frequently cross. Otherwise, VT as an institution is no better than the ex-OSU band director.
1) so as long as we don't chant "stick it in" then you're fine with it? so if everyone in the stands wore t-shirts with it then you'd be ok. you're still associating something based on your personal opinion.
2) never said forced penetration wasn't rape. not sure where you got that.
3) again, not sure what you misunderstood here. i never said i expect rape victims to not associate the chant with anything. in fact, i am specifically stating that your association is yours alone and nobody elses. leave it that way.
the 2nd 3) again a lot of assumptive declaration here. a) my spotlight comment was about false association in general and not specifically about this chant. in that if you had a friend that was a victim then most likely they don't want you yelling and screaming about how everything loosely related to sex is making them uncomfortable. that's the spotlight. b) emphathizing is great. being overtly protective usually is not, especially in public. c) why it's surprising to you is because you don't understand it. yes a chant of "stick it in" could be offensive to victims but one of the main points in counselling is to get victims back to a point were societal ebbs and flows do not control them. controlling 60k fans to not do anything offensive is again naive, whilst counselling a victim to understand the enviroment and context they are in, even with a sexually charged chant like stick it in, is what you must do so that they overcome their assault. if you meet a counselor that tells you otherwise and advises you to stand up in the middle of a crowd (even amongst friend or even just the two of you) and point out that something is offensive to your victimized friend is the right choice to make, then please let me know who they are so i can call someone to revoke their license. d) yes i would tell a victim to their face that this is a huge leap. even in the context of 60k fans chanting "stick it in". why? because they are doing what you are wrongly doing. associating something negatively that shouldn't be. they cannot hope to control the associations or the actions of others. they shouldn't try. they should be focused on understanding that surviving societal innuendos is the foundation of getting past their ordeal. it's one day at a time, one moment at a time. you may never truly get past it but getting by one day at a time without having to think about it every time someone or some 60k people say, yell, chant something like "stick it in" is where you get your power. so yes, you're damn right i would say it to their face.
4) what crossed the lines was the actions in the stands, not the chant itself. immature, hormone filled actions of young adults. but again you choose the enviroment you go to and take your kids to. don't be offended so easily when you enter a place that is known for creating offensive atmosphere. and yes, your association that VT chanting "Stick it in" is anything like anOSU is also a bad association.
1) My stance is that Virginia Tech as an institution should not sponsor offensive chants. It's unprofessional and nothing good will come out of it.
2) Good, then your original point is irrelevant to the discussion.
3) It's great that you don't see anything offensive about the chant, but your refusal to give credence to valid associations lacks empathy and common-sense. Just because you associate the chant with banging your wife doesn't mean that others associate it with the same thing.
3) Nobody is standing up adjacent to a rape victim to bring attention to them in a crowd here. We are discussing VT policy on why the chant should or should not be banned on an Internet forum. Also, telling a gang rape victim to their face that they are wrongly associating "Stick it in" with something that very well could've been said while the gang rape was occurring is very naive. In that case, it would be a literal association.
4. The OSU incident was about officially sanctioning an offensive, sexual environment. The association is that VT would've been sanctioning the former if they had continued to officially supported the chant.
1) VT doesn't need to sponsor it. They also don't need to censor it.
2) my response was to your questioning me:
that was never said. so good, your point is irrelevant.
3) you basically just said what I have been saying all along. My association to something doesn't mean others associate it with the same thing. bingo. so who are you to say that every single fan associates "stick it in" with rape? could it be that they actually also associate it with scoring a touchdown? or even if the association is to sex then the non-forced kind? just as you say my association is not others, neither is yours. Also I never refused to give it credence. What I said is that in counselling your goal is to build up the victim's psychological control by giving them the understanding that they have no control over the associations made by others and that they should not be giving things credence when they are not in control.
3 again) Actually in your original comment you were associating our chanting "stick it in" to a band member lying to his girlfriend about sticking in just the tip and then penetrating her fully against her will. then said this is why we can't have it because "some people" actually do this. In that case no one can drive, because "some people" actually drive drunk and kill people. No one should own pets because "some people" actually mistreat them. It was this association that you predicated your argument on which is insubstantial.
4) OSU the institution never sanctioned anything. the band director did, an employee, and he got fired. Again VT does not need to sanction anything either, but they don''t need to censor it. In much the same way that many sexually charged things on campus are not censored by the institution but not sanctioned either. Underwear runs, frat parties, bikini dashes, sun bathing on the quad, public art of sexual nature, etc. You expecting VT to sanction or censor everything would be a legal and logistical nightmare for them, hence why they don't do it. You think VT and the police at games don't know that underage students are sneaking alcohol into the games? why do you think all those drunk kids aren't thrown out? Under your line of thinking we would have a stadium that was less than half full every game. but they don't do that. they aren't sanctioning underage drinking are they?
also I want to say that in the case of your gang rape victim's literal association with words, you are still coddling them. this does a victim no good. your role as a counselor has got to be someone that will honestly tell them as it is. And the sad fact is that rape victims may have literal associations with words and wording every day, multiple times. Something as innocuous as "door" or "hat", or the sound of bubble gum smacking might trigger waves of feelings that can psychologically shut someone down.
So as a counselor I shouldn't be telling them "If you come across a situation where you have literal word association you need to find a way to stop it, shut it down, etc, or have someone do it for you." because these are acts of force. Force both in the way of the victim needing to force an action to get something to stop, in this case people not saying a word, and also force in the way that they must forcibly relive those feelings when they hear the word(s). You are forcing them to do something they don't want to do, that will constantly connect them to acts of force and again put them in the spotlight.
What I should be telling them is "you will hear words, sounds, etc that will take you back to the very worst moment of the very worst experience in your life. In an instant you could be back there and it may cripple you. Unless you can recognize that those saying the words are not making your association. that their words, unless specifically about you and your experience, are in context to something that may happen innocently 100 times a day. you need to know that you cannot control what others say or do in their everyday life. You control your own associations and only yours. you have the power to control how you're affected by what others say and do. Only you have this power. No one else. Use your power to take the strength away from those words, images, etc that others may use unknowingly and innocently to control and eventually overcome your ordeal, one moment at a time."
what you don't seem to get is that a victim that is associative to the point where they cannot psychologically withstand these types of environments are still no where near ready for these environments and should still be in counselling. Coddling them by censoring a stadium full of fans is not the answer, empowering them to control their own associations to live a normal life is the only way to help them.
This is a story about a story. How much more unsubstantiated can it get? I don't believe people should be bullied or harassed but nor should people who are hypersensitive dictate what I say or how I say it. Turn the other cheek.