I honestly think our Redzone package will be the "Wild Turkey" because its been talked about a lot lately. And with our Red Zone miscues/lack of it I bet SL is going to find mismatches and attack them.
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I am suggesting using it to our advantage and find the mismatches. Last year it was JCC run up the middle, then 2nd down was some sort of PA (hoping our WR's would get open) 3rd down was a zone read/pass option.. Then a missed 20-30 yard FG.
I'm not bashing at all just saying using this with a QB that can escape and make plays will be huge. Not to mention our whole surrounding cast will be 100 times better. We will have a 3 healthy TE's all the RB's and a couple WR's that can make jump ball plays.
If you watched Logan's TD pass this past weekend he seemed to have grown up and keep his eyes down the field and find a wide open WR. The Logan at VT would have lowered his shoulder and got stuffed by the LB/Safety combo tackle.
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If you watched Logan's TD pass this past weekend he seemed to have grown up and keep his eyes down the field and find a wide open WR. The Logan at VT would have lowered his shoulder and got stuffed by the LB/Safety combo tackle.
Which is exactly why I think we will be in our normal offense in the redzone. Brewer is a QB. Not an athlete they moved to QB. We are kidding ourselves if we don't think Brewer is going to be our QB come Aug 30.
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100% Brewer will be our QB come Aug 30th...But the Wild Turkey can come in handy for us in the Red Zone because it spaces out the defense and will make them cover every single threat we have. IMO we have more threats than D's can cover with our TE/WR/QB/RB group in that package.
I'm not saying Brewer will never be in our Jumbo Package as the QB but Durkin can throw the ball and I'd Imagine Hodges could place a ball as well and would be a better run/pass option over Brewer.
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I'm sure we will use the wild turkey in the redzone at some point, I just don't think we will/should make that our redzone offense. If we ran the ball all the way down the field with the RBs, keep doing it. If Brewer is working the passing game, why take him out? I think changing packages based on where we are at on the field is a sign of much worse things for us.
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definitely agree, but if we start to struggle early in the Bill & Mary game or even anOSU game in redzone why not use it.. a simple play/big gain out of a wild turkey package could spark the offense for the rest of the game.
And If you really think about if we wouldn't be changing much from a player perspective or package other than maybe Durkin or Hodges at QB. Other than that I would bet $$ that the Package will look sort of like what Logan ran/did a lot last year. Read Option/PA stuff nothing too fancy. But the main point is we will have 4,5 maybe even 6 different players/options to cover rather than the 2 we had last year.
Sometimes a play could look like vanilla ice cream but with all the talent/options it really is Roasted Pecan Pie.
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I don't believe you get more from the element of "surprise" than you do from getting real-time reps on elements of your playbook that you intend to use more than once.
Do you want our players attempting that play for the first time at a critical juncture of a game when the pressure is high?
Or do you want them to get those first reps when the pressure is lower, allowing for a higher chance of success?
Shoot, pull the WT out for the 50 yard line for that matter during what should be a W&M shellacking. These red zone plays are going to be critical at some point, and timing is extremely important. Getting that timing in practice reps just isn't as easy.
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Yes Krak!!! That would be great, I do believe if we get up early we might see a couple wrinkles in the offense. Why not throw the kitchen sink at them and see what works and what needs changes.
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I would be surprised if the Wild Turkey wasn't anything more than a thinly veiled disguise meant to take up some precious prep time from opposing DC's. But I doubt it will be particularly successful or used more than a handful of plays in any game. In the end, it will likely cause more of a distraction to our own offensive rhythm than it will create any mismatches or preparation errors by the defense.
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This. The way they are openly talking about it and showing it during the open period of practice lends some credence to this idea. I think we may show it prior in the OOC scheduler prior to ACC play just to give the DCs something to think about.
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If this were the case, we are wasting valuable reps on a ruse.
If we have to depend on that for some kind of offensive success, then we're suffering the same kind of strategy fluff we did with Stinespring as OC. Wishful thinking is no substitute for substantive practice.
I have a hard time believing Loeffler is the sort of guy who would give up valuable time in practice to any sort of one-off formation & personnel when we still need to determine starting QB, starting OL, and the RB pecking order, unless he intended to actually use those plays in actual games.
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How much has the wildcat been worked on in practice?
"Yeah, we do it here and there. So I mean with that, I mean we're just doing it. You don't want to put too much on us mentally right now, trying to get, you know, prepared for different teams, different schemes and stuff like that, so I mean I'm sure we're going to get more into it during the year, but right now it's in there every once in a while."
This is from Brian's interview with Bucky. It doesn't sound like they are wasting valuable reps on it, more like doing it here and there.
I think it will be used but not in a feature role, which, in turn, makes it a bit of a gimmick and ruse.
Also, I'm sure there are plenty of things that are done in practice that we don't see in a game either because of execution or effectiveness issues. The fact that they keep talking about it and showing it during the limited "open" practice lends more to facade than to big part of the offense.
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Agree to disagree. Reps are valuable but at this point in time you still have Leal getting some first team reps and multiple RBs/WRs getting reps. Right now they are narrowing down the depth chart still so some players who aren't going to be significant contributors are getting reps that would be more valuable to the ones that would be. It's not hard to believe that someone who plays things so close to the vest as Lefty would use a few to throw people off the scent while using them to evaluate players.
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Honestly, I would not be shocked at all if, by the end of the year, it was Trey, Shai, and Marshawn as the 1-2-3 punch, with one of the freshmen potentially taking over that top spot by the UVa game, assuming all 3 stay healthy.
That's not a knock at all against Trey or JC... I just think Shai and Marshawn are going to be THAT good.
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You're forgetting JCC, he is a solid #2 in coach's eyes. Sadly I just don't see it but if he can stay healthy maybe it will work out. However with the lack of video/lack of access this year from practice we can't see how anything looks other than 7 QBs and 1 TE taking snaps from Center.
So sad :( the anxiety is killing me
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JC is the #2 unless he gets hurt. I know Shane has said it and I'm pretty sure other coaches have too. It looks like Caleb's on the outside looking in right now and Shai vs. Marshawn in the battle for the #3 spot.
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So our RBs are Edmunds, JC, and then a mystery third person. Caleb, Shai, Marshawn, and then McMillian are all in the mix really. Coaches have said in one way or another that they expect Shai, Marshawn and McMillian to see the field this year. My expectation is that McMillian is utilized in the return game, but otherwise it's between Shai and Marshawn for that final spot which is very unfortunate for Caleb.
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McMillian and Caleb will be the H back/ Jet sweep back for sure. They rave about the speed of both those players and we saw it work well in Sun Bowl when LT3 was in.
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I would hope so, but that's showing your hand from the start of the play. Parker provides more options there and I wouldn't be surprised to see Isaiah Ford or Knowles in the same role either.
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Andy -- Are they purposely not updating the depth chart to create some amount of mystery for opposition? Or no changes? Or just trolling their customers?
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Updated depth chart on Beamer's site has Mark Leal, Michael Brewer listed as co-No. 1's at QB. #Hokies— Andy Bitter (@AndyBitterVT) August 13, 2014
Alston Smith listed as first-team LG, ahead of Wyatt Teller. #Hokies— Andy Bitter (@AndyBitterVT) August 13, 2014
WR Isaiah Ford up on the second team line behind Josh Stanford. Carlis Parker (hamstring) is listed as injured. #Hokies— Andy Bitter (@AndyBitterVT) August 13, 2014
RBs still have Trey and J.C. on the first team. Shai McKenzie listed on the second team. McMillian and Caleb after that. #Hokies— Andy Bitter (@AndyBitterVT) August 13, 2014
Also, Jonathan McLaughlin on the first team at RT, with Mark Shuman (knee) listed as injured. #Hokies— Andy Bitter (@AndyBitterVT) August 13, 2014
Lots of bumps and bruises on defense, but no real changes on that side. Chuck Clark working with ones instead of limited Brandon Facyson.— Andy Bitter (@AndyBitterVT) August 13, 2014
Your preliminary kicker order on FGs: Joey Slye, Eric Kristensen, Carson Wise, then Michael Santamaria and Remington Hinshaw. #Hokies— Andy Bitter (@AndyBitterVT) August 13, 2014
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Let's just have 3 different sets. 1st down, 5 OL and 6 QBs. 2nd down, 5 OL, 1QB, 5 RBs. 3rd down, 5 OL, 1 QB, 5 TEs. Oh wait, TE = QB so first and third down are the same.
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Beamer said freshman running back Marshawn Williams is at about 223 or 225 pounds right now, depending on when you ask him. Williams gives Shane twice daily updates on his weight, unsolicited.
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JCC just isn't effective running the ball. He doesn't have the elite speed for the edge and he goes down with arm tackles inside. His experience is what will keep him in the top 3. I wish we would stick with 1 workhorse back and use a sub here and there. Rotating 3 backs hasn't worked well for us in the past.
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We have not had a dominate RB since RMFW and David Wilson.. So we have had to rotate 3 dif RB's to see what each of them had, however 0 of them were healthy and it was really a scrap to get by. Edmunds was a beast but still 80% most weeks Miami and UVA were his 2 best games and JCC was 70% normally since he had ankle sprains every week.
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Comments
Based off of other quotes it looks like Shai and Marshawn are battling for the third spot.
I honestly think our Redzone package will be the "Wild Turkey" because its been talked about a lot lately. And with our Red Zone miscues/lack of it I bet SL is going to find mismatches and attack them.
So, you are suggesting to use a slightly smaller Logan with less passing skills in the redzone? I'm confused.
I am suggesting using it to our advantage and find the mismatches. Last year it was JCC run up the middle, then 2nd down was some sort of PA (hoping our WR's would get open) 3rd down was a zone read/pass option.. Then a missed 20-30 yard FG.
I'm not bashing at all just saying using this with a QB that can escape and make plays will be huge. Not to mention our whole surrounding cast will be 100 times better. We will have a 3 healthy TE's all the RB's and a couple WR's that can make jump ball plays.
If you watched Logan's TD pass this past weekend he seemed to have grown up and keep his eyes down the field and find a wide open WR. The Logan at VT would have lowered his shoulder and got stuffed by the LB/Safety combo tackle.
Which is exactly why I think we will be in our normal offense in the redzone. Brewer is a QB. Not an athlete they moved to QB. We are kidding ourselves if we don't think Brewer is going to be our QB come Aug 30.
100% Brewer will be our QB come Aug 30th...But the Wild Turkey can come in handy for us in the Red Zone because it spaces out the defense and will make them cover every single threat we have. IMO we have more threats than D's can cover with our TE/WR/QB/RB group in that package.
I'm not saying Brewer will never be in our Jumbo Package as the QB but Durkin can throw the ball and I'd Imagine Hodges could place a ball as well and would be a better run/pass option over Brewer.
I'm sure we will use the wild turkey in the redzone at some point, I just don't think we will/should make that our redzone offense. If we ran the ball all the way down the field with the RBs, keep doing it. If Brewer is working the passing game, why take him out? I think changing packages based on where we are at on the field is a sign of much worse things for us.
definitely agree, but if we start to struggle early in the Bill & Mary game or even anOSU game in redzone why not use it.. a simple play/big gain out of a wild turkey package could spark the offense for the rest of the game.
And If you really think about if we wouldn't be changing much from a player perspective or package other than maybe Durkin or Hodges at QB. Other than that I would bet $$ that the Package will look sort of like what Logan ran/did a lot last year. Read Option/PA stuff nothing too fancy. But the main point is we will have 4,5 maybe even 6 different players/options to cover rather than the 2 we had last year.
Sometimes a play could look like vanilla ice cream but with all the talent/options it really is Roasted Pecan Pie.
Heck, forget if we struggle.
I don't believe you get more from the element of "surprise" than you do from getting real-time reps on elements of your playbook that you intend to use more than once.
Do you want our players attempting that play for the first time at a critical juncture of a game when the pressure is high?
Or do you want them to get those first reps when the pressure is lower, allowing for a higher chance of success?
Shoot, pull the WT out for the 50 yard line for that matter during what should be a W&M shellacking. These red zone plays are going to be critical at some point, and timing is extremely important. Getting that timing in practice reps just isn't as easy.
Yes Krak!!! That would be great, I do believe if we get up early we might see a couple wrinkles in the offense. Why not throw the kitchen sink at them and see what works and what needs changes.
I would be surprised if the Wild Turkey wasn't anything more than a thinly veiled disguise meant to take up some precious prep time from opposing DC's. But I doubt it will be particularly successful or used more than a handful of plays in any game. In the end, it will likely cause more of a distraction to our own offensive rhythm than it will create any mismatches or preparation errors by the defense.
This. The way they are openly talking about it and showing it during the open period of practice lends some credence to this idea. I think we may show it prior in the OOC scheduler prior to ACC play just to give the DCs something to think about.
I just disagree.
If this were the case, we are wasting valuable reps on a ruse.
If we have to depend on that for some kind of offensive success, then we're suffering the same kind of strategy fluff we did with Stinespring as OC. Wishful thinking is no substitute for substantive practice.
I have a hard time believing Loeffler is the sort of guy who would give up valuable time in practice to any sort of one-off formation & personnel when we still need to determine starting QB, starting OL, and the RB pecking order, unless he intended to actually use those plays in actual games.
This is from Brian's interview with Bucky. It doesn't sound like they are wasting valuable reps on it, more like doing it here and there.
I think it will be used but not in a feature role, which, in turn, makes it a bit of a gimmick and ruse.
Also, I'm sure there are plenty of things that are done in practice that we don't see in a game either because of execution or effectiveness issues. The fact that they keep talking about it and showing it during the limited "open" practice lends more to facade than to big part of the offense.
I'd just say all reps are valuable reps given the question marks at so many positions.
But we're just speculating so I'll wait to see what happens in games.
Meantime:
Agree to disagree. Reps are valuable but at this point in time you still have Leal getting some first team reps and multiple RBs/WRs getting reps. Right now they are narrowing down the depth chart still so some players who aren't going to be significant contributors are getting reps that would be more valuable to the ones that would be. It's not hard to believe that someone who plays things so close to the vest as Lefty would use a few to throw people off the scent while using them to evaluate players.
Honestly, I would not be shocked at all if, by the end of the year, it was Trey, Shai, and Marshawn as the 1-2-3 punch, with one of the freshmen potentially taking over that top spot by the UVa game, assuming all 3 stay healthy.
That's not a knock at all against Trey or JC... I just think Shai and Marshawn are going to be THAT good.
Kalvin Cline - a Salute to you, sir!
Trey Edmunds & Shai McKenzie & Marshawn Williams? Unstoppable !
You're forgetting JCC, he is a solid #2 in coach's eyes. Sadly I just don't see it but if he can stay healthy maybe it will work out. However with the lack of video/lack of access this year from practice we can't see how anything looks other than 7 QBs and 1 TE taking snaps from Center.
So sad :( the anxiety is killing me
I feel like JC will be in the mix just due to experience. That would be 2 backs with zero snaps between them.
JC is the #2 unless he gets hurt. I know Shane has said it and I'm pretty sure other coaches have too. It looks like Caleb's on the outside looking in right now and Shai vs. Marshawn in the battle for the #3 spot.
So our RBs are Edmunds, JC, and then a mystery third person. Caleb, Shai, Marshawn, and then McMillian are all in the mix really. Coaches have said in one way or another that they expect Shai, Marshawn and McMillian to see the field this year. My expectation is that McMillian is utilized in the return game, but otherwise it's between Shai and Marshawn for that final spot which is very unfortunate for Caleb.
McMillian and Caleb will be the H back/ Jet sweep back for sure. They rave about the speed of both those players and we saw it work well in Sun Bowl when LT3 was in.
I would hope so, but that's showing your hand from the start of the play. Parker provides more options there and I wouldn't be surprised to see Isaiah Ford or Knowles in the same role either.
Keep in mind that Parker, Caleb and McMillian were all QBs in high school so we may be able to have some tricks coming off of that jet sweep
Flashbacks of Clemson 2012 say please don't do anything but run the ball in that situation.
Loefler isn't O'Cainspring:
Andy -- Are they purposely not updating the depth chart to create some amount of mystery for opposition? Or no changes? Or just trolling their customers?
Mystery and uncertainty. No point making a public change to the depth chart when you're just gonna change it again.
Ask and you shall receive
After the spring, I stated my running back rotation would be edmunds/shai/Williams in no particular order.
Let's see how close that ends up being
2 out of 3. not a chance in hell JC isn't in the top 3 for various reasons
All these Running Backs? I say we should adopt a Triple Option Offense, look how well it works for GT! /sarc
Let's just have 3 different sets. 1st down, 5 OL and 6 QBs. 2nd down, 5 OL, 1QB, 5 RBs. 3rd down, 5 OL, 1 QB, 5 TEs. Oh wait, TE = QB so first and third down are the same.
Thought this was great.
Beamer said freshman running back Marshawn Williams is at about 223 or 225 pounds right now, depending on when you ask him. Williams gives Shane twice daily updates on his weight, unsolicited.
Need to get that kid to poop more, like this guy...
JCC just isn't effective running the ball. He doesn't have the elite speed for the edge and he goes down with arm tackles inside. His experience is what will keep him in the top 3. I wish we would stick with 1 workhorse back and use a sub here and there. Rotating 3 backs hasn't worked well for us in the past.
We have not had a dominate RB since RMFW and David Wilson.. So we have had to rotate 3 dif RB's to see what each of them had, however 0 of them were healthy and it was really a scrap to get by. Edmunds was a beast but still 80% most weeks Miami and UVA were his 2 best games and JCC was 70% normally since he had ankle sprains every week.
Let me fix that for you
"JCC just isn't effective running the ball when dealing with nagging injuries."
When Drew Harris gets here, we'll really be stocked!