I am hoping the rushing stats and 3rd down conversion rate are a function of exceptional run defense. Hard to gather anything from intra-team scrimmages.
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I find myself still feeling "meh" about our offense. I mean yeah, they are playing our defense but still; 87 yards on 45 tries? That's about 2 yards per carry. Plus the third down conversion rate is just awful. I'm trying to stay optimistic but they aren't giving much to go on (Except you Ford, keep doing what you do)
Edit: ^^^ Yeah what Leonard said ^^^
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I love to see all these freshman pushing for playing time. The big play ability of these true freshman RB & WR's, coupled with our TE depth and speedsters like Newsome returning kicks, VT has a lot more ways this season to score quickly.
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If the whole team combined for 87 rushing yards and marshawn Williams ran for 54, he nearly had twice as many yardage than the whole team combined. There is no way in hell you redshirt juice & ford this year.
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Yep, it doesn't add up. Marshawn had 54 and I.Ford had 94, Bucky had a a 55 yard reception. That's an awful lot of sack yardage taking it the other way. I think someone is pulling our leg.
Edit: whoops, that was 87 yards rushing, not total yards. I'm still optimistic. Still we seemed to have moved the ball some. If that passing game is working. Those yards on the ground will come.
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So is our O that bad or our D that Badass? Probably something in between though the lack of a decision for rb and qb is I am guessing two different reasons. QB decision is likely trying to figure out who sucks less while rb is trying to determine which stud carriers the rock first amirite?
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No I don't think you're right at all about the QB decision. Leal is playing as well as he ever has from the reports and is giving Brewer a run for his money. Both have had good and bad moments but I seriously doubt it is a competition of who sucks less.
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I want to jump on the "Both QBs are playing at elite levels" but I just don't see it. Nothing about VTs offensive history, Leofflers history, Leals history, or the numbers and reports from this preseason make me believe that we have two amazing QBs battling it out. Everyone is just trusting what the coaches tell the media about the QBs and about the effectiveness of this offense. Honestly, the praise from the coaching staff sounds just like every other sub-100 year. I don't think they deserve the 'benefit of the doubt' without earning it.
Also, I'm a little concerned about the defense. I feel like we might be giving them too much credit. Right now, I don't see how the defense will be top-25. I by no means think they will be bad, I just don't see how they will be elite this year. I worry about the size, depth, fatigue, and 4th quarter performance.
I hate feeling like a negative nancy :(
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Or you hate preseason, and scrimmages that are closed to the media? Who know's what the hell they're doing on the practice field. All I know is all of our questions will be answered 1 week from tomorrow...or more likely 2 weeks from tomorrow.
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If Virginia Tech has another abysmal offensive year I expect Scot Loeffler to be sent home packing. I questioned his hiring by Beamer and I still do. We just don't have the offensive line talent to run the offensive he wants to run. God only knows if I can handle another offensively lacking season
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So you're saying you don't know if we have the talent to carry out a good offensive attack, and if we don't carry out a good offensive attack we should fire the coach?
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We don't have the talent on oline to establish a dominate running game loeffler wants. And our passing game doesn't work if the run isn't established under his system. His system isn't right for us, our offense wont work unless our OL plays out of their minds this season. And in my mind there is no way you can justify a program like VT running one of the worst offenses in the country last year. Alabama, LSU, Auburn wouldn't except that. If there isn't any improvement after this season why should we waste another year? 3 years of irrelevancy would be terrible for recruiting
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VT had a couple of poor recruiting classes, Lefty and crew have done a good job recruiting the past 2 years and I think we'll see some improvement when these guys get some experience... but for Alabama wouldn't accept that - the DECADE before Saban went to Bama they averaged less than 7 wins a year, so lets not get carried away, VT had a couple sub-par years, it happens to every program in the country at one time or another
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Exactly. Loeffler had very little to work with when he arrived and we're just starting to see the impact of better recruiting. You can't send the guy packing when his first real recruiting class is at the freshman level.
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Did you not see how much adjusting Loeffler did last year with what we had? I find it hilarious how quickly you want to send someone packing. Learn to have some patience and let something develop before you go for the jugular.
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I tend to disagree about last year. We had very little talent. This year the level is up. And just like you predicting what will be, I also have a prediction. We will see a different team, a better one in fact. In another year, this talent will have more experience even. If Loeffler can't do anything with it then, it will be time to have the discussion of doing something new.
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I find it hard to believe that of the 124 schools, we were 101st in terms of offensive talent last year. I mean, do schools like UAB and Army really recruit equivalent offensive talent as us?
Edit: removed comment about Loeffler @ Auburn, because it'll just start a flamewar and it has already been discussed before
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Well, UAB and Army don't play against power-5 defenses either. And you're right to remove that bit about Lefty at Auburn. That was a horrible situation with Chizik in 2012, and he should never have been hired there in the first place. Terrible fit for what they had/were trying to do there.
I think we'll be pleasantly surprised this year. Moorehead (and every other coach, it seems like) has repeatedly said that last year and this year are like night and day. The offense is more advanced, older guys are more consistent, and younger guys are stepping up to be playmakers. I don't think we'll be a top-10 offense, but we'll definitely see some significant improvement. After the Newsome/OCainspring years, I think that's all you can reasonably expect here.
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Counterpoint: look at strength of schedule differences. Total stats aren't normalized in any way. I'm not saying we played a super hard schedule last year, but we certainly played better teams than Morgan State, Eastern Michigan, etc. Most of Army's games ended up being shootouts, except the ones they played against Power 5 opponents (in which they generally got smashed). Same story with UAB.
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Let's just look at the ACC, Hokies are still near dead-last in offense. Did VT have worse talent than EVERY team except Wake Forest? Syracuse, UVA, BC, Pitt, Miami, Duke, GT, NCSU, UNC ALL had better offenses. Did they ALL have better talent?
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I'm not trying to say there wasn't a problem. Clearly there was. What I object to is cherry-picking teams with ridiculously weak schedules and using them as a measuring stick. You can cherry-pick stats to tell any narrative (UVA had an incredible third-down defense!). Our ranks among peer institutions in these offensive categories were bad, no question. The only reason we got where we were last year was because of a truly elite defense.
I also think there's a problem with the generic "talent" argument. Only in the last year or so are we truly recruiting guys for their natural positions. VT relied for FAR too long on "get a bunch of athletes and put them on the field." We're seeing that they don't always find a spot, just because they're fast or whatever. If you want a good WR, get a guy who's been a WR, not a guy who was a QB in HS who was just too good pass up and who could probably split out and catch the ball (sometimes it works, usually it doesn't).
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there are several other factors in play besides talent... nearly every game VT played last year went down to the final minutes, whereas UVA, WF, NCSU etc got blown out several times, and got some gimme yards/points in garbage time.. also scoring 80 points against an out-manned ODU team (UNC) or 70 and 66 vs Elon and Alabama A&M (GT) is something Beamer chooses not to do
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I hate to be a jerk, but it's comments like this that are everything that's wrong with the fan base and college football as a whole. You don't send a coach packing just because of the numbers his kids put up in his first year. Curt Newsome (moreso than any other offensive coach, so I'm not leaving anyone out here), left the program in utter shambles. He did a horrible job recruiting and coaching his offensive lines and now it's showing. Actually, it showed the first season we hired him. Stiney actually coordinated top-30 offenses before Newsome came around. Loeffler has shown time and time again that he has the ability to recruit QBs (Ford and Durkin don't come to Tech without him), develop a cohesive offensive game plan centered around basic fundamental concepts and in which plays build off of each other to create mismatches and take advantage of defensive tendencies, adapt to get the most out of his players, and work tirelessly to ensure the success of the program. In his first year, he inherited a program with very little talent outside of two players and built his system around those two. Then, one of them got hurt and he had to scrap it all 2 weeks before the season began. What he did, generating enough offense to actually win 8 games, is not trivial. You can point at the rushing stats and all that all you want, but the point is that he did a very good job putting his players in a position to succeed even without a whole bunch of talent. Give the guy some time to extinguish the dumpster fire and rebuild. If we're still having this discussion in 2016, you'll have a case. Until then, let the coaches coach.
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You can point at the rushing stats and all that all you want, but the point is that he did a very good job putting his players in a position to succeed even without a whole bunch of talent.
This^ is the key, I believe.
A lot of what a coach can do is create situations on the field that allow the athletes a chance at success. If the athlete makes a bad choice, or simply doesn't have the skill set to make the play, beat the opponent, then 'them's the breaks.'
IMHO, that was the Hokie's offense last year.
There were some head scratching moments, but I saw planning, direction, and adjustments with the offense. I think, at many times, the lack of talent on our offense was greatly exposed.
Now this year remains to be seen, but I like what I'm hearing a lot more.
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I wasn't onboard with the Loeffler hire either, especially after how he ran such a horrid Auburn unit in 2012. However, I gave him last year because of it being new system and the inconsistency that was LT3 and I'll prob give him this year because of having another new trigger man under center. However I have to see some kind of progress...I cant deal with offense like 2012 and 2013 again.
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Whoa whoa whoa, slow down there speed racers. These were closed scrimmages where the coach's control the scenarios. We don't know what they had planned and that probably affected what we're reading WAY to much in to.
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Before everyone freaks out about a QB not being named yet - well, too late for that... - keep this in mind: Lefty is not demanding much of his QB this year. He wants a guy who can make good decisions with the football, hold on to said football, and keep the offense moving. He's not looking for a Johnny Football or a Logan Thomas, who can put the whole team on his back and carry it himself. On top of that, he wants 2 game-ready QBs in case the starter gets injured, which, in this age of college football, is a very real concern. We all saw what happened last year when the injury bug finally caught Logan, after 3 years of trying. So everyone just calm yer collective tits, enjoy the fact that Hokie football is now 7 days, 8 hours and 22 minutes away (as of the time of this posting), and let the QB situation play out. The wait will be over soon.
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But, but, but, the sky is falling. I think it's going to be a good season. We'll see progress and just about the whole team back next year with some stud additions.
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yes.
Imagine the Hokies with 2 consistent guys at QB that just have to distribute the ball off to the playmakers at RB and WR/TE? We may be right there.
This stokes me more than whether we have MV-three or not.
Steve Spurrier had a nice run at UF having a similar formula.
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While I'm glad that everyone is very optimistic, the one stat that sticks out to me is the third down conversions. 3 for 33 in the two scrimmages? That's ridiculous. For all of our improvement this year, we still can't get yards when we need to. When we travel to the Shoe we're going to have moments in the game when it's 3rd and 4 and those yards might be the difference from winning and losing. While I think the offense is way ahead this year as opposed to last year, 3 for 33 ain't gonna cut it.
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We have no idea what those situations were, which units were in (#2 O vs #1 D is gonna end poorly all day, every day), what the coaches were trying to accomplish, etc. Don't get too caught up in scrimmage stats.
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I'm with ya on that, and I'd definitely feel better if the percentage was a little more respectable, but without watching a single down and having no clue as to the context of the stats, said stats are pretty much useless. I'm definitely looking forward to French's film reviews and seeing how the offense does in real games.
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Comments
I. Ford is slowly becoming one of my favorite receivers.
Slowly??? I assume that was sarcastica...considering he has yet to play a football game. But from what I'm hearing He will become one of mine as well.
Ever since he picked us over Loserville he's been one of mine.
I am hoping the rushing stats and 3rd down conversion rate are a function of exceptional run defense. Hard to gather anything from intra-team scrimmages.
No clear qb winner, less than 2yds per carry rushing the ball, 2/17 for 3rd downs...
Yeah, now I'm worried about this offense.
I'm worried about the rushing attack and O-Line, not nearly as nervous about the passing game and the receivers.
it's not going to be difficult for teams to shut down our passing game (especially breaking in a new QB) if we can't threaten anybody on the ground...
Well with the news of over 50 yards being lost due to sacks I feel better about the rushing attack.
Agreed, but also 2nd team OL vs 1st team DL.
I find myself still feeling "meh" about our offense. I mean yeah, they are playing our defense but still; 87 yards on 45 tries? That's about 2 yards per carry. Plus the third down conversion rate is just awful. I'm trying to stay optimistic but they aren't giving much to go on (Except you Ford, keep doing what you do)
Edit: ^^^ Yeah what Leonard said ^^^
3 for 33 on 3rd down conversions in 2 scrimmages . Uggggggggggggghhhhhhhh
Isaiah Ford is going to be something special
I love to see all these freshman pushing for playing time. The big play ability of these true freshman RB & WR's, coupled with our TE depth and speedsters like Newsome returning kicks, VT has a lot more ways this season to score quickly.
That 3rd stat is ugly!!!
Ford. Bucky. Shai (if healthy). Get them in the game as much as possible.
If the whole team combined for 87 rushing yards and marshawn Williams ran for 54, he nearly had twice as many yardage than the whole team combined. There is no way in hell you redshirt juice & ford this year.
At this point they are fighting for the starting spot, redshirting is far out of the equation.
it's hard to tell without a stat line, there could have been several sacks making the running game look worse than it was
Yep, it doesn't add up. Marshawn had 54 and I.Ford had 94, Bucky had a a 55 yard reception. That's an awful lot of sack yardage taking it the other way. I think someone is pulling our leg.
Edit: whoops, that was 87 yards rushing, not total yards. I'm still optimistic. Still we seemed to have moved the ball some. If that passing game is working. Those yards on the ground will come.
Pretty even qb compitition so now it will come down to who has more upside, brewer will be the starter for that reason.
Another downvote for an opinion?
That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works!
Not sure why, but your comment reminded me of:
See that's what I hate: people downlegging TKPers with less than 1k (unless they post something outrageously inappropriate). Hate it.
The news of the epicness that Isaiah Ford is becoming softens the very irritating blow of no starting QB named.
Should also be happy with Williams 54 yards rushing.
So is our O that bad or our D that Badass? Probably something in between though the lack of a decision for rb and qb is I am guessing two different reasons. QB decision is likely trying to figure out who sucks less while rb is trying to determine which stud carriers the rock first amirite?
No I don't think you're right at all about the QB decision. Leal is playing as well as he ever has from the reports and is giving Brewer a run for his money. Both have had good and bad moments but I seriously doubt it is a competition of who sucks less.
Hope you are rig but the fact that no one has seized it thus far makes me pretty pessimistic
I want to jump on the "Both QBs are playing at elite levels" but I just don't see it. Nothing about VTs offensive history, Leofflers history, Leals history, or the numbers and reports from this preseason make me believe that we have two amazing QBs battling it out. Everyone is just trusting what the coaches tell the media about the QBs and about the effectiveness of this offense. Honestly, the praise from the coaching staff sounds just like every other sub-100 year. I don't think they deserve the 'benefit of the doubt' without earning it.
Also, I'm a little concerned about the defense. I feel like we might be giving them too much credit. Right now, I don't see how the defense will be top-25. I by no means think they will be bad, I just don't see how they will be elite this year. I worry about the size, depth, fatigue, and 4th quarter performance.
I hate feeling like a negative nancy :(
Or you hate preseason, and scrimmages that are closed to the media? Who know's what the hell they're doing on the practice field. All I know is all of our questions will be answered 1 week from tomorrow...or more likely 2 weeks from tomorrow.
If Virginia Tech has another abysmal offensive year I expect Scot Loeffler to be sent home packing. I questioned his hiring by Beamer and I still do. We just don't have the offensive line talent to run the offensive he wants to run. God only knows if I can handle another offensively lacking season
So you're saying you don't know if we have the talent to carry out a good offensive attack, and if we don't carry out a good offensive attack we should fire the coach?
We don't have the talent on oline to establish a dominate running game loeffler wants. And our passing game doesn't work if the run isn't established under his system. His system isn't right for us, our offense wont work unless our OL plays out of their minds this season. And in my mind there is no way you can justify a program like VT running one of the worst offenses in the country last year. Alabama, LSU, Auburn wouldn't except that. If there isn't any improvement after this season why should we waste another year? 3 years of irrelevancy would be terrible for recruiting
VT had a couple of poor recruiting classes, Lefty and crew have done a good job recruiting the past 2 years and I think we'll see some improvement when these guys get some experience... but for Alabama wouldn't accept that - the DECADE before Saban went to Bama they averaged less than 7 wins a year, so lets not get carried away, VT had a couple sub-par years, it happens to every program in the country at one time or another
Bingo.
Exactly. Loeffler had very little to work with when he arrived and we're just starting to see the impact of better recruiting. You can't send the guy packing when his first real recruiting class is at the freshman level.
So you've drawn all those conclusions from the few morsels of info that have been released to us?
Hook me up: What are tomorrow's powerball numbers?
I'm willing to bet close to $1M that all of those teams would LOVE to except terrible offensive performance...
just sayin'
Did you not see how much adjusting Loeffler did last year with what we had? I find it hilarious how quickly you want to send someone packing. Learn to have some patience and let something develop before you go for the jugular.
When fighting clowns, ALWAYS go for the juggler.
I tend to disagree about last year. We had very little talent. This year the level is up. And just like you predicting what will be, I also have a prediction. We will see a different team, a better one in fact. In another year, this talent will have more experience even. If Loeffler can't do anything with it then, it will be time to have the discussion of doing something new.
I find it hard to believe that of the 124 schools, we were 101st in terms of offensive talent last year. I mean, do schools like UAB and Army really recruit equivalent offensive talent as us?
Edit: removed comment about Loeffler @ Auburn, because it'll just start a flamewar and it has already been discussed before
Well, UAB and Army don't play against power-5 defenses either. And you're right to remove that bit about Lefty at Auburn. That was a horrible situation with Chizik in 2012, and he should never have been hired there in the first place. Terrible fit for what they had/were trying to do there.
I think we'll be pleasantly surprised this year. Moorehead (and every other coach, it seems like) has repeatedly said that last year and this year are like night and day. The offense is more advanced, older guys are more consistent, and younger guys are stepping up to be playmakers. I don't think we'll be a top-10 offense, but we'll definitely see some significant improvement. After the Newsome/OCainspring years, I think that's all you can reasonably expect here.
Counterpoint: look at strength of schedule differences. Total stats aren't normalized in any way. I'm not saying we played a super hard schedule last year, but we certainly played better teams than Morgan State, Eastern Michigan, etc. Most of Army's games ended up being shootouts, except the ones they played against Power 5 opponents (in which they generally got smashed). Same story with UAB.
Let's just look at the ACC, Hokies are still near dead-last in offense. Did VT have worse talent than EVERY team except Wake Forest? Syracuse, UVA, BC, Pitt, Miami, Duke, GT, NCSU, UNC ALL had better offenses. Did they ALL have better talent?
Much better comparison.
I'm not trying to say there wasn't a problem. Clearly there was. What I object to is cherry-picking teams with ridiculously weak schedules and using them as a measuring stick. You can cherry-pick stats to tell any narrative (UVA had an incredible third-down defense!). Our ranks among peer institutions in these offensive categories were bad, no question. The only reason we got where we were last year was because of a truly elite defense.
I also think there's a problem with the generic "talent" argument. Only in the last year or so are we truly recruiting guys for their natural positions. VT relied for FAR too long on "get a bunch of athletes and put them on the field." We're seeing that they don't always find a spot, just because they're fast or whatever. If you want a good WR, get a guy who's been a WR, not a guy who was a QB in HS who was just too good pass up and who could probably split out and catch the ball (sometimes it works, usually it doesn't).
there are several other factors in play besides talent... nearly every game VT played last year went down to the final minutes, whereas UVA, WF, NCSU etc got blown out several times, and got some gimme yards/points in garbage time.. also scoring 80 points against an out-manned ODU team (UNC) or 70 and 66 vs Elon and Alabama A&M (GT) is something Beamer chooses not to do
I hate to be a jerk, but it's comments like this that are everything that's wrong with the fan base and college football as a whole. You don't send a coach packing just because of the numbers his kids put up in his first year. Curt Newsome (moreso than any other offensive coach, so I'm not leaving anyone out here), left the program in utter shambles. He did a horrible job recruiting and coaching his offensive lines and now it's showing. Actually, it showed the first season we hired him. Stiney actually coordinated top-30 offenses before Newsome came around. Loeffler has shown time and time again that he has the ability to recruit QBs (Ford and Durkin don't come to Tech without him), develop a cohesive offensive game plan centered around basic fundamental concepts and in which plays build off of each other to create mismatches and take advantage of defensive tendencies, adapt to get the most out of his players, and work tirelessly to ensure the success of the program. In his first year, he inherited a program with very little talent outside of two players and built his system around those two. Then, one of them got hurt and he had to scrap it all 2 weeks before the season began. What he did, generating enough offense to actually win 8 games, is not trivial. You can point at the rushing stats and all that all you want, but the point is that he did a very good job putting his players in a position to succeed even without a whole bunch of talent. Give the guy some time to extinguish the dumpster fire and rebuild. If we're still having this discussion in 2016, you'll have a case. Until then, let the coaches coach.
This^ is the key, I believe.
A lot of what a coach can do is create situations on the field that allow the athletes a chance at success. If the athlete makes a bad choice, or simply doesn't have the skill set to make the play, beat the opponent, then 'them's the breaks.'
IMHO, that was the Hokie's offense last year.
There were some head scratching moments, but I saw planning, direction, and adjustments with the offense. I think, at many times, the lack of talent on our offense was greatly exposed.
Now this year remains to be seen, but I like what I'm hearing a lot more.
Shhh...Shhhhh... calm down.
It'll be all right.
I wasn't onboard with the Loeffler hire either, especially after how he ran such a horrid Auburn unit in 2012. However, I gave him last year because of it being new system and the inconsistency that was LT3 and I'll prob give him this year because of having another new trigger man under center. However I have to see some kind of progress...I cant deal with offense like 2012 and 2013 again.
we appear to be throwing the ball well. (even if completion % isn't good)
running? Not so much.
OL?
Hmmn.
Looks like more than 50 rushing yards were lost from sacks. Seems more like an OL issue than the RBs.
Edit: 2nd Team OL vs starting defense, now I see why.
And maybe a little trouble from a D where Maddy is the slowest man.
Keep in mind too that the qb's are likely no contact and sacks were a bit easier to come by.
Did the 1st team OL play? If they played vs the 2nd D, they should've dominated...
Probably but even if they did don't think they gave up much sacks at all or none. Was mostly 1st team D destroying the 2nd team OL.
Stats in scrimmages are meaningless
^ This!
Whoa whoa whoa, slow down there speed racers. These were closed scrimmages where the coach's control the scenarios. We don't know what they had planned and that probably affected what we're reading WAY to much in to.
Guys, step away from the ledge. It's practice, not a real game. You know, practice.
Not a game, not a game, not a game, but PRACTICE.
For reference:
Before everyone freaks out about a QB not being named yet - well, too late for that... - keep this in mind: Lefty is not demanding much of his QB this year. He wants a guy who can make good decisions with the football, hold on to said football, and keep the offense moving. He's not looking for a Johnny Football or a Logan Thomas, who can put the whole team on his back and carry it himself. On top of that, he wants 2 game-ready QBs in case the starter gets injured, which, in this age of college football, is a very real concern. We all saw what happened last year when the injury bug finally caught Logan, after 3 years of trying. So everyone just calm yer collective tits, enjoy the fact that Hokie football is now 7 days, 8 hours and 22 minutes away (as of the time of this posting), and let the QB situation play out. The wait will be over soon.
But, but, but, the sky is falling. I think it's going to be a good season. We'll see progress and just about the whole team back next year with some stud additions.
yes.
Imagine the Hokies with 2 consistent guys at QB that just have to distribute the ball off to the playmakers at RB and WR/TE? We may be right there.
This stokes me more than whether we have MV-three or not.
Steve Spurrier had a nice run at UF having a similar formula.
While I'm glad that everyone is very optimistic, the one stat that sticks out to me is the third down conversions. 3 for 33 in the two scrimmages? That's ridiculous. For all of our improvement this year, we still can't get yards when we need to. When we travel to the Shoe we're going to have moments in the game when it's 3rd and 4 and those yards might be the difference from winning and losing. While I think the offense is way ahead this year as opposed to last year, 3 for 33 ain't gonna cut it.
We have no idea what those situations were, which units were in (#2 O vs #1 D is gonna end poorly all day, every day), what the coaches were trying to accomplish, etc. Don't get too caught up in scrimmage stats.
Yeah, I realize that, but still.... it's a frightening number.
I'm with ya on that, and I'd definitely feel better if the percentage was a little more respectable, but without watching a single down and having no clue as to the context of the stats, said stats are pretty much useless. I'm definitely looking forward to French's film reviews and seeing how the offense does in real games.