Not sure if you fine analysts on TKP plan on doing it, but would love to get an analysis on the Double Eagle scheme Foster used against OSU -- you know, the usual pro's (is it always good for option-style attacks? If so how come we've never used it before against GT?) and Cons (if you were the Urb, how would you have exploited our D).
Thanks!
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We've used it often against GT. It's excellent for clogging up the middle with our DTs and allowing them to get some penetration, while letting our LBs and alley players roam free and make plays, as well as putting players in positions to blitz from a whole bunch of different places.
Really? I don't recall it being used.
According to Foster, he hasn't run the double eagle in 20 years. He said he treated the offense like GT but I think it was a different defense.
The theory is on a pass fall into zone. Rotate blitzes. On a run... attack.
Only works with #DBU backing you up
I'm curious why we don't use this more often though? We can arguably go 0-cover against any WR's in the nation with our DB's -- why not clog the center and blitz the flux out of them?
Just a guess, and trust me, I am NOT an X's and O's guy, but I would guess it's simply not feasible to attack as aggressively on defense every week. I'm guessing there is significant wear and tear on the players, so if the offense isn't as high powered as OSU you can simplify the defense a bit and attack in spots when they present themselves.
I could be completely wrong though, like I said, just a guess.
Also has a lot to do with risk-vs-reward. You're basically betting the outcome of the drive on your getting to the qb before a WR gets open. If you are playing a high-powered team with awesome athletes, that might be a safer bet than a conventional defense because they can score from anywhere (take a screen 80 yards or something). So the increased chance of a big play is neglibible. Against an opponent where that isn't the case, you are dramatically increasing the chance of a big play.
It's an all-or-nothing formation, that I would expect should remain in the "in case of big game, break glass" type case. Not something you trot out regularly.
I am also not an Xs and Os guy but I'd think the inexperience on the OSU OL had something to do with this plan working.
Also in the last GT game it seemed like we decided to up the pressure, we had as many as 9 guys in the box against them. Their offense is so unique it requires a unique defense to stop, buds got it down at this point and I can't question what he does. Regardless, as far as the X's and O's go, he probably feels like he doesn't even need to run it, they typically have one wide-out and that gives you flexibility with your personnel allowing you to roll out defensive fronts that are better at tackling and filling lanes.
Teams like ECU would absolutely shred our defense if we played 0-cover all game.
West Coast-style offense with an emphasis on short passes and out routes can easily pick apart an over-aggressive D if the QB is confident and accurate.
One of OSU's long touchdowns came on a short slant route that left Facyson screwed once he took a misstep and missed the tackle. There was no help overtop aside from a safety rolling over from the other side of the field.
Barrett is young, and prone to mistakes. Meyer was limited in his playbook, so their inability to run forced them to pass. Everything lined up perfectly for Foster's D. It won't be the same against more experienced QB's like Carden.
THIS. Crossing routes, slants, ins, outs, and hitches, when run well, beat Cover-0 all the time. If I was an O-coordinator, I would run non-stop rub routes, wheels, and drags.
Meyer, for some reason I'll never understand, pretty much only had his receivers run seam and fly routes. Played right into Bud's hands.
I'm sure that somebody else can say this better than I can, but from what I understand, this kind of defensive front is more vulnerable to the spread offenses that have become so popular.
The double eagle looks like the 46 that we saw 20 years ago and I wonder if it isn't the same thing.
Part of the answer as well is that OSU's offense relies heavily on the run to setup the pass...Having lived in Columbus I have seen enough of OSU and the Meyer offense to know that it all starts with the run...Fosters plan worked because he stopped the run and the Dline was able to contain Barret...If Braxton Miller had been in the game would have been different just because of his running ability. If you remember that Barret got a few first downs on scrambles Miller would have taken to the house. Next year at VT is going to be interesting.
This sums it up pretty well.
http://www.wralsportsfan.com/coaching-101-double-eagle-defense/13962293/
Absolutely love this right here. Basically after Meyer finished his tearful pizza he said they had no idea how to counter what we were doing and were absolutely blindsided by our style of play. Yeah we work on it for sure we play GT every year so that definitely helped a bit, however If I am not mistaken I saw a little bit of our gameplan vs w&m.
Regardless this is what I love about Bud- he will come up with whatever scheme need be to stop you, and it will work. Onto ECU and time to make lane the loudest stadium in the country !!!!!!!!
Except, the normal double eagle has two linebackers aligned over the offensive tackles. Bud stacked Chase Williams behind the nose tackle, and started the game with his safeties up as outside linebackers. This created a 5-3 defense with the DT's slide down into 3 techniques. He had his nickel in the game most of the time, and when he did, the Hokies either had both safeties in the box and man on man to the outside, OR (as the game progressed) he started to play Bonner deeper.
More to come...
Looooove youuuuu.
more to come....
If French tells us we witnessed the birth of "Double Hokie" or maybe even "fully dipped corn-dog" formation, I'm gonna crap myself with excitement. Freaking Bud Foster!!!!!
Given Meyer's quote, I wonder if this (double eagle) is why we closed our practices and scrimmages to the public/media...a move I applaud.
I would say between that and our new hurry up + 3 TE's + a whole new playbook yeah 2-0 baby!!!!!!!1
Urban Meyer: "It's not overly complicated"
This may someday rival the "chess vs checkers" comment in VT lore.
I think other posters are correct in that the main risk is that an accurate QB who has timing established with good route running WRs could do a lot of damage. Also as others have said, the big play for Ohio St came off a relatively simple and quick route that turned into a TD due to a single missed tackle. I'm guessing it was a good choice for this matchup due to Barrett being inexperienced, not terribly accurate, and not having great timing with the WRs combined with the WRs being more of the burner, athletic types than precision route runners. Combine all of that and you have a recipe that allows this defense to put extreme pressure on the QB all night. Some teams, such as Texas Tech, Washington State, and ECU, utilize quick passes based on timing and precision route running, which could cause major problems for this type of defense since the ball can be thrown to a spot the receiver will break to before the pressure from the defense can get close to the QB.
I'll now be curious to see if VT's game changes how the rest of the big 10 defends Urban's offense and if they have success with Bud's blueprint.
And on the flip side: will the OSU OC finally learn to incorporate short throws into his game plan? He could have easily tried to counter Bud's plan and make our guys switch it up, but he simply didn't, so we kept on doing what we were doing. I have no doubt that Bud could have gone toe-to-toe with him if things had changed, but noting did, so no one got to see the countermove. If that had happened, the rest of the B1G would have been salivating over their chances against OSU.
I think that's part of what Meyer is saying. I don't think most, if any, teams can install the type of defense we just ran in the middle of a season. Not only do you have to have the DBs that can run an aggressive press man-to-man on an island type of coverage but you have to have DLs and LBs that understand the stunts/slants/blitz concepts that he was running up front. On top of all that you have to have ridiculous amount of discipline (I only counted once where Dadi ran past the QB and he came back and made the play in the end) and faith that the ENTIRE defense can tackle. Oh and on top of that you have to know when to call which blitz and have them disguised well so that they never know where they are coming from.
#BALLSOFSTEEL
I don't know what you call that defensive look, but 9 guys in the box on 3rd down in the 4th quarter had me doing front flips before the night was up.