Watching the OSU game again tonight (because I can), and I'm on the drive early in the 3rd Q where we have a string of 3-4 big penalties called against us. First, I should say, I'm not crying about it. We won the game in convincing fashion despite these calls. But, still, I'm wondering if anyone else took a close look at these.
During the live game I was furious because they didn't show replays of 2-3 of these mystery calls. So, through the magic of dvr I'm taking a closer look.
1 - we sacked them deep in their territory, and Dadi is called for PF hands to the face (15 yds). Even on dvr you can't see what happened. I'm very curious if he actually did something that was a foul.
2 - we're driving and Marshawn has a big 10-12 yard run, but Stanford is called for a crack-back block at the end of the play (another 15 yds). On replay, I only see him making a block. Did anyone look closely at this play. Is it really a foul what he did?
Go Hokies!!!
Comments
Thanks for bringing this up! I was wondering the exact same thing about those plays. I was cursing at the TV and demanding replays. I watched espn replay of the game but there were no replays. I hate it when penalties like those happen but there is no adequate explanation.
edit: with the play concerning Dadi, he was so perplexed. He sincerely didn't know what he did wrong and was asking the official. An OSU lineman tapped him on the head as if saying "don't worry about it". Our guys were telling to get lined up for the next play cause he was still so flabbergasted. And there was no replay or explanation from the commentators.
The Dadi penalty was supposed to be called on Corey Marshall, who was in frame and it was a good call. The Stanford call I'm not sure, but he didn't appear to be arguing.
Thanks. I'll go back and look.
This is what it looked like in the when they showed the replay on the stadium screen. looked like Marshall got his hands in the facemask and used it for leverage.
I, too, was getting pretty riled up..."the fix is in"..."here comes the USC BS again", etc.
But I saw a replay of somebody's hand way up in a Buckeye OL facemask. Don't know if they called it on the right guy, but we definitely did the deed on that one.
I understand the Hokies were playing a B1G team, but they didn't use a PAC12 ref crew, so I'm pretty sure all is good.
Nah, the reffing was pretty good.
/conspiracy
Now the media timeouts on the other hand... I swore after we had a big defensive play that could of killed momentum there was a media timeout and no one was charged a timeout. The defense was at the LoS waiting to eat Barret while Ohio State was chilling on the sidelines in a huddle.
Agree that the refs struggled at times.
The hands to the face was called on Marshall, they said the wrong number. If you look at the play Marshall's hand gets up into the lineman's upper chest/throat area and the lineman's head tilts back. Not technically hands to the face, but the ref will almost always call it if the lineman's head tilts back like that.
The call on Stanford was awful. They called an illegal block below the waist (a crackback block) and he didn't even block below the waist at all. There weren't any other illegal blocks on the play either. Watched that play 6-7 times looking for one. I assume the ref saw his man go to the ground and simply assumed.
I was baffled by a few other calls/no calls, especially a few blatant holds on OSU's first scoring drive and one on Stanford on a route during our 2nd (I believe) scoring drive, as well as a few no calls on borderline late hits. Interesting that OSU never got a sideline warning. Seemed to me their entire bench was on the field after every big play. On Byrn's catch that got reviewed, I'm not sure why the guy from the back was making that call when all he could see was the LB's butt. The former ref in the booth even said as much.
Another one was calling excessive celebration on Bucky. I've seen 3 guys do that exact same dance in the past 2 weeks and it wasn't called any other time. You just can't make that call. Let the kids have a LITTLE fun!
Okay, I'm done. On to ECU!
The crackback block should have been called on Ford. It was just another mistaken number callout bey the ref.
Yep and it was definitely a penalty. Just a freshman mistake.
Hmm, okay, I'll look again. Was is play side?
I see it now, thanks! Tempers my anger (homerism) slightly.
osu did end up getting a sideline warning a little while after we did.
i felt that the refs were a little tighter than they needed to be (17 total penalties is high), and they were inconsistent. sometimes they let the kids play, and other times they didn't. it's tough for a player to know where the line is when it's moving. that was my only complaint.
On one of the 1st 2 possessions, Brewer took off when the pocket collapsed. An OSU DL caught him from behind and took him down with a blow to the head wasn't a brutal blow, but it was still an intentional blow to the head). I was kind of surprised that it wasn't called.
I remember that play. At first I thought he dragged him down by the head and wanted a flag. But on second look it seemed like the guy kinda touched his head and Brewer went down. I still would have taken a call, but I'm kinda glad it wasn't called, if only because it wasn't violent and could have been considered a 'just a normal play'
Given the concussion concerns that football is dealing with and the way it kind of forced Brewer to the turf leading with his head, I kind of expected a penalty, esp since there was a pronounced arm swing direct at his head. In the bigger scheme of football plays, it wasn't a big blow (probably wasn't even "average"), so I don't mind the no call.
In the end, I kind of liked the fact that the refs let the players decide the game and we didn't end up with a bunch of basketball fouls being called.
Yep. Watched again with my wife yesterday-her comment after the third qtr was 'Man, the ref's sure were trying to change the game.' An illegal block on a WR-what are we Georgia Tech now? And Coach Beamer took issue with a spot that made us run the QB sneak for the 1st down.
And, no, I'm not saying the ref's were dirty, or bad, or whatever.
But it's interesting to me in a general sense, and that 3rd qtr serves as a good example:
Now, I'm not saying that they weren't good calls, but I would argue that on most plays there is potential for a ref to throw a flag. The question is do they just miss those opportunities, or do they exercise judgment in doing so.
Ex. I was driving up I-85 yesterday and went by the friendly state trooper going 73mph in a 65mph zone. He was looking straight at me and didn't budge.....but he could have.
Beams was mostly showing some gamesmanship and trying to get them to measure so that he gave Brewer time to recover after being sandwiched between 4 OSU guys. The spot was fine, and I'm sure he knew that, but those extra few mins certainly helped.
I agree that he was trying to get Brewer a breather but the spot shafted us almost a full yard.
10 over is safe 99% of the time, so long as you aren't weaving, or otherwise being an obvious hazard.
That's true in most every state I've driven in.
Had to take a Defensive Driving course back in my misspent yute.
Was taught by an ex-state trooper who said "If you do the things I tell you, you will never get a ticket again." Among the many tricks he taught us was the 10-over rule. Great class. Full of all the regular dos & don'ts, and a whole lot of inside-baseball cop stuff on how to avoid tickets.
I haven't had a ticket in 2 decades since that class.
A couple of my own personal rules...don't be the fastest guy out there ("why is there no one in front of me...?"), and don't hang out in the left lane if not actually passing anyone at the moment.
Many of my rules were developed after passing through Montgomery County and...let's just say the ticket said 15mph over (just a little more in reality; thank you mr. officer for keeping me out of court).
That sounds very similar to my personal set of speeding strategies. In particular, I've never understood why people will just sit in the left lane impeding the flow of traffic. If there's someone behind you who wants to move, why not move over and let them attract the attention of any cops over the next 10+ miles?
If I'm feeling like speeding beyond the "safe zone", I always have a lead car or two, within view, but not super close, and then you watch their brake lights. Even if it's a tap, people always tap the brakes when they see the police.
Police discretion is a beautiful thing.
I remember the review of Malleck's catch when he went low to get it. It was a catch, but nobody was talking about how he was getting MUGGED before he caught the ball.
With the PI calls that went against us in the 1st quarter, I was annoyed that wasn't called.
It didn't really matter since he made the catch, but I would have been pissed if they reviewed and said he didn't catch the ball.
I think Blackledge mentioned it on the replay.
On the by and by, I think Nessler and Blackledge are a great announcing team. I've always thought they were good, but I thought Blackledge really called a great game on Saturday. I like these guys
I agree-it came across, I thought, that they fully enjoyed the game and the game planning that was obvious in place.
I'm a big Blackledge fan. Nessler is OK too. I think they may be the best ESPN announcing tandem for big games.
I hope we get some prime-time love this season, but I am NOT looking forward to listening to Herbie.
Seriously. Blackledge called three of our offensive plays before they even snapped the ball
Who's reffing the game tmw? Cusa or ACC?
ECU is in the American now.
That said, I think they're our refs. Which is cool as long as we don't get Ron Cherry.
I dunno, ol' Ron's actually one of the few I don't mind anymore. At least he's entertaining. And thank god he was the one in the Fiesta Bowl that had to explain the 1 point safety.
I've actually been a little worried about our own ACC refs anyway. I saw some questionable calls in the UCLA/UVA game -- the most egregious being the play where they didn't stop the clock after a first down, and then had the balls to announce to the crowd that the clock was correct, while it was still running. And I can't remember specifics, but I remember seeing something questionable in the Pitt-BC game which had me trying to look up which refs were assigned to which games to see if it was the same crew.
I was listening to Bill and Mike on the radio and they described the Stanford penalty like this:
Receivers are allowed to block below the waiste when they are inside the defensive player (so an inside-out block) but they are not allowed to block a receiver coming outside-in, which is what they seemed to think Stanford did. It's a rule I had never heard before, but also a situation that doesn't come up very often.
Haven't seen a replay of it so I'm not sure if he actually blocked below the waiste, but they seemed ok with the call.
Yes, the block has to go towards the sidelines, not back towards the middle of the field. I think, as others stated above, that the refs just botched the number and Stanford was not the culprit.
Oops, looked through to make sure I wasn't reposting anyone else's thoughts but must have looked over that one. Hopefully that gives an explanation to maybe why the flag was thrown though (even if they got the wrong guy).
No worries. VTokie5 pointed it out.
Wait... Can someone actually find that section in the rulebook? I've never heard that in my entire life and that seems absurd to me that rules would dictate which direction someone can block (obviously rules dictate when/where you can engage a defender).
I'm too lazy to look it up, but I trust Bill and Mike. I think it is all about safety and making sure nobody gets hurt. The outside-in block could catch a defender off-guard since he may not see the blocker as his legs get taken out.
After review, it is illegal for a player outside of the tackle box (7 yards from the center) to block below the waist back toward the ball in, behind, or up to 10 yards beyond the neutral zone. In this case, Isaiah Ford, as other's pointed out in this thread, committed this infraction at the beginning of the play (11:13). The thing that is really odd is that Josh Stanford's block at the end of the play (11:09) was above the waist and perfectly legal, while the flag was thrown at 11:07, just after the play had already ended.
My best guess is that the referee saw Ford's block and simply had trouble getting the flag out of his pocket, but it is strange that Stanford's name was called when the flag appeared to be thrown in response to the legal block he had just made.
Thanks for looking all that up! Where'd you find it?
My only complaint regarding officiating was the lack on replay being utilized on some close calls. i don't like the system but it exists so use it.
This. I'm 99.9% sure Willie Byrn got in.
This This. How that play was not reviewed in this day and age just boggles the mind.
I can't remember the last time a play that ended with the ball crossing the plane was NOT reviewed.
IMO, replays showed he was down before the ball crossed. Review likely would have only put the ball at the .5 yard line.
Yeah, I replayed that a lot.
The tip of that ball definitely broke the plane.
A bunch of puzzling and missed calls/spots during the game -- for/against both teams. The refs were still in early season form too, I guess.
also on OSU's TD run/screen there looked to be 1 hold on #65 and 2 block in the backs.. Idk if it was because the camera angle but clearly saw a hold early.
Don't forget the false start penalty that nobody got called on however it worked in our best interest as the bal sailed over JT Barrett's head and took them out of field goal range on 3rd down. Another one that the refs wiffed on was OSU jumping offsides however again to worked to our advantage as Newsome took the jet sweep away from that side and got like a 15 yd gain. Oh well. Other than those two and the ones you mentioned I thought the refs did a pretty good job.
Guys, we won...
Yeah, kinda my thoughts too. But hey, nothing wrong trying to understand why somethings were called the way they were. I don't think too many people are complaining here.
Reminder, since it was my OP: "First, I should say, I'm not crying about it. We won the game in convincing fashion despite these calls. But, still, I'm wondering if anyone else took a close look at these."
Go Hokies!
Sorry if I came off overly critical, I just thought it was amusing reading though the comments--it's just not something you see very often after a big win. You're questions were perfectly legitimate.
Go Hokies!
No worries at all. It just bothered me that they didn't show a replay during the game that clearly showed either of those penalties. That always makes me a little suspect. I'm over it. :-)
Beat those pirates!
I have seen someone say the last unsportsmanlike was because Jarrett and Riley were acting like cats in the Endzone. At the shoe I thought they said sideline, the clip shows Jarrett nudging Riley's helmet with his own,in a catlike fashion, but I presumed they were both on hands and knees exhausted from sprinting about 62 yds. Anyone have any confirmation of catlike celebrations?
At any rate, to be a Hokie means to get boned over on bs every season at least 1-2 every game whether it's on an important key play OR when they don't call it on the opposing team when they clearly should. It's just the way of things.