Did anyone else notice him puking on the sidelines (I think it was in the 1st quarter)? We were right behind the bench and he started throwing up when he got to the sideline after taking a pretty hard hit.
Has that mentioned anywhere?
My thoughts from someone at the game:
1. You can't overstate the importance of getting a long drive on offense early in the game. Momentum, depth of deficit, etc.
2. See above - Foster had about 4 secs between each air raid attack to make adjustments.
3. Bad luck and poor execution by some really good but really young players made a big difference in the game
4. See 3 above - the stadium went absolutely silent when that kickoff went out of bounds.
5. French - what was the idea behind Bonner's alignment - looked like he was playing centerfield all day.
Comments
In the post game Beamer said he told Slye to kick the ball between the hash and the numbers before that final kickoff. Said he took a lot of things into consideration when he did so, and that's what Slye did. Wind took hold of it and it sailed out of bounds. But why even take that risk? Kick the shit out of the ball right down the pipe and force them to take a knee. By taking that kind of chance you put kicking the ball ob on the table and you gave momentum right back after working so hard to get it. Not a chance worth taking, especially at that point of the game. We outsmarted ourselves, and that sucks.
Between decisions like that, the numerous 12 men on the field penalties and the complete lack of awareness by the team in the first quarter, I'm very disappointed with our coaching staff this week. They spent so much time talking about focusing on the game and then to come out that flat. Ugh, its hard to stomach.
As for Brewer, even with all the drops, and the overthrows, and the 2 ints (the second of which was just a damn good play by the DB) he still finished with a pretty good outing. 30 for 56, 400 yards, 3 TDs. I just wish he had better accuracy on those deep passes cause our guys were open all game long.
Brewer could of had even more completions if it weren't for easy drops from the WRs (mainly Stanford.)
When I saw the paperboy drop a 3rd down conversion late in the 4th quarter; I knew it was going to be a grind the rest of the way. They showed a lot of heart to get it back to 21-21. D just looked gassed trying to come up with 1 more stop. Their receivers were going up and getting everything late.
Everything = 2 passes, albeit one for 31 and one for 28 yards, both to Cam Worthy. Foster went back to his all out blitz package and left our corners on an island again. Considering we took a 12-man penalty, he should have had the time to adjust his coverage to prevent the second one, although they were probably in field goal range at that point anyway. It was the same lack of adjustment that burned us the entire first quarter.
Up until the last drive, ECU had a grand total of 87 yards in the second half. I put this more on ECU going away from the jump balls to try to run clock more than Foster making adjustments unfortunately. Almost every drive I remember, we had eight or nine men in the box almost every play. I think my biggest issue with the decision to stuff the box and make a team one dimensional is that the team we were playing is so much better passing than rushing that if I were going to try to make them one dimensional, it would have been to allow them the running game. They have 415 yards rushing in three games this year compared to 1122 yards passing. It made sense against OSU to force them to throw the ball since their QB had yet to prove he could. Carden came in arguably one of the top 10 passers in the country and we allowed him to play to his strength.
I think one thing that got lost in this game is the last ECU drive to end the first half... they got the ball with less than a minute, and got inside the VT 5 against only one blitz if I recall correctly, so ECU showed they could move the ball downfield very quickly against a non-blitzing VT defense, that may have been running through Fosters mind when ECU got the ball with at the end of the game
They got the last 43 yards of that on the hail mary to end the half though which was another jump ball situation, so they didn't really drive the field. They had one running play on a delay for 24 yards on that drive as well so as long as we leave a spy for the running back, we should have been able to have 5 or 6 guys in the secondary at a minimum, which should leave at least one safety playing 18-20 yards off the line of scrimmage.
Brewer wasn't all that accurate in general during this game... I think sometimes we forget he's still a first-year starter who hasn't played with his WR's all that much before. Not to mention losing a lot of practice/development time to injury.
I agree with that. He played decent but didn't have his best game. Bucky bailed him out big time on the seam route and Ford bailed him out on the simultaneous completion play
Worth noting: those are two freshmen bailing out their QB. Regardless of how the rest of the game went, that's darn impressive to see and a breath of fresh air. Personally, I'm happy knowing that Brewer doesn't have to make a 100% accurate throw 100% of the time to even have a chance at having his receiver catch the ball (lookin' at you, receiving core from 2013, no use even singling out any of you). Even Crablegs Winston had guys bail him out on crappy throws all last year (and this year), and we didn't and it cost us games.
Can I get a Skrong!
we skrong!
Beamer and Slye were trying to duplicate the same kickoff from after the previous TD, which was a nice one deep into the corner of the endzone. I get it, but agreed, kicking it out of bounds was a huge momentum killer. Ohio State did the exact same thing last week after tying the game against us, and I remember in that situation thinking how much of a boost it was to get nice field position on a drive where we HAD to respond.
IMO the defensive substitution penalties weren't coaching mistakes, per se. They were cases of players not paying attention... The coaches wanted to sub, but the player who was supposed to go in wasn't ready with his helmet, so he ran in late and then the guy he was replacing wasn't paying attention in order to come out of the game. It's fair to attribute some of that to coaching, in the sense that they should coach players to always be ready to go in the game and pay attention for substitutes in case you need to come off the field. At a certain point though, every player is responsible for being ready to sub in or out on any play. There were a few issues with this against W&M and OSU as well... I do expect it to be a point of emphasis in practice this week.
This was the first time all season Brewer actually overthrew some deep balls. He was consistently underthrowing them against W&M and OSU, so in a weird way, I'm relieved to see it's not just a complete arm strength deficiency. Brewer and Ford/Hodges/Phillips need to get more practice reps in on those routes. I just don't think that is the throw Loeffler really wants very often in his offense (he likes those 5-20 yard routes), thus I bet Brewer isn't throwing many 40 yard passes in practice and getting a good feel for the speed of each receiver in order to determine how far to lead them. You do need to have at least a threat of a downfield pass here or there though in order to prevent teams from stacking a zone defense within 20 yards of the LOS like ECU did. I think Brewer will be fine though. I think this will be one of his worse outings, which means he'll have a very nice season.
It's always better to overthrow those passes, than to underthrow for a pick.
What's kinda funny is that you always here pros and coaches say that it is better to under throw those deep throws, especially against man, because the majority of the time the receiver is going to be the one to adjust. One of three things is going to happen: offense wins (big play), offense wins (pass interference), or defense wins (incompletion or pick). And Meatloaf had it right, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
I can't deny that kick really, I mean REALLY, tested my resolve to not be "that guy" in a public place.
But for the love of God, if the wind was blowing left to right and made it sail, wouldn't the plan be to go for the OTHER corner and have it blow safely back into the field of play if the wind kicked up?
Kicking it out of bounds there was just like getting ECU a dose of smelling salts during a standing 8 count.
All day there was no breeze. I felt it start to come up with just a little time left.
I am fairly certain they were kicking it to the same place every kickoff all game, every other one went where intended... the last one did not. I am guessing they were kicking away from one of ECUs return men
On the TV, it almost looked like the ball went into the end zone and then out of bounds.
a.) is that what happened or was that just the camera angle?
b.) if that did happen, should that be a penalty? Is a kickoff/touchback like a TD, once it breaks the plane it's done?
Well, no it didn't cross into the end zone. if it had there would have been no penalty simply a touchback
I figured it was wishful thinking.
Not understanding why our DB's aren't playing the ball more. Not sure if that's just how you play man or what but I think there were a lot of throws that our db's could have had a chance at picking off had they turned and looked or te ball.
Yeah. I'm hoping for some analysis on that specifically. Those lobs Carden was tossing weren't passes so much as they were arm punts. You'd think our DBs would come down with some of those more often than not.
That is a very good question & one I hear often. Why can't these db's turn and look for the ball. I wish someone would answer as this happens repeatedly every game ,with the exception of Fuller .
when we are in man-to-man / cover 1 / cover 0, our DB's are coached to play the man because there's no help and they have to stay with the WR. If the DB turns his head to look for the ball that gives the WR a chance to make a cut and leave him in the dust. Not to mention that our DB's were generally a step behind and looking back would've given the WR even more separation even if they didn't make a cut.
Coach Beamer made a similar comment yours - about the DB's needing to look for the ball - at half time, but it's hard to change years of technique practice in a halftime adjustment.
my bigger complaint is that college allows face guarding and that is something you can do without looking for the ball. Our DB's were not doing that nearly enough against ECU. Probably because they were generally beat by a step or two and not close enough.
At a certain point the adjustment needed to be made to have a safety back there playing center field, especially on that last drive. We have someone back there watching for those lobs and at the worst, those passes are knocked down. Our guys were getting beat 1on1 all game long deep and we did nothing to help them out. Not a single adjustment to help out a unit that was struggling badly as a whole. There is no excuse for that last drive, the coaches have to help these guys out sometimes.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result each time. Love Bud Foster and I would rather have him over any other DC in college football, but yesterday his game planning was insane.
watching the game yesterday this was my only issue. Time after time we got beat on the deep ball and its not like it was a good pass, it was lob after lob after lob. If we have a ball hawking safety like bonner/jarrett I would think some boom would be laid and half those passes would be incomplete.
I hear some people say well if we would have played zone they would have dink and dunked it down the field. I disagree. Kendall made a lot of swats in the middle and not to mention they didn't have a good middle of the field or middle range WR. They had 1 guy that when they needed a big play they would just lob it up.
Last point- Make the QB beat us with good throws, to see him just carelessly loft it up there was embarrassing because you knew it was coming and it would work for 20+ yards.
What I wouldn't do to have had Flowers, Keion Carpenter or Chancellor back their guarding a few of those hail mary's. Pick, pick, BOOM!
What I don't understand is why our DBs aren't coached to do a jam off the line of scrimmage if they are playing cover 0 (is that illegal in college football as compared to nfl?). Doing a jam off the line can be real risky however if coached well they can force a jam on an inside or outside shoulder depending on leverage to mess up timing with the qb..
There were a lot of plays in that OSU game where they were running full sprint with their back to the ball and were able to break up the play at the last second; I counted at least 6. That didn't work this game and Carden was able to get the ball out quick and keep them on the field. It worked nicely against OSU and against ECU their receivers went up and made a ton of plays man-to-man.
As has been said below, that's just the way we coach our DB's here, and more often than not it's very successful. I started rewatching the game Saturday night on my DVR (only got through the first quarter), and in the very first possession I saw why they're not coached to look for the ball. On ECU's second completion, Facyson was looking back at the QB, and the WR was able to get separation for an easy 30-40 yard completion. I believe the problem Saturday had way more to do with execution than technique in the secondary. Usually our guys are able to get their hands in there and bat the ball away, but for whatever reason, ECU's recievers kept winning those 1-on-1 battles.
So far in 3 games, while I'm still very much content with what Brewer gives us, he seems to struggle with deep ball accuracy which will cost us some explosiveness on offense. He doesn't seem able to hit our flank receivers unless they're wide open on a double move. Hopefully a point of emphasis to work on in practice, because I believe Bucky could be a huge threat on those deep one on one fly routes if we can accurately throw it to him in stride and to the outside shoulder.
He seems like he just can't judge it at all. I mean every deep throw was like 10 yards overthrown and then his hail mary at the end went out of the end zone.
Maybe needs more time to nail down the timing?
That and at least something that resembles run blocking.
I don't understand the down votes on this one...it was a very accurate statement.
Gonna give the benefit of the doubt that it's smartphone fat-fingering that people will correct later...
I think there is a group of people who downvote hokie knight no matter what he says because they don't like other things he has posted. Seems a bit unfair to me
Didn't see Brewer sick on the sidelines, but could tell from the way he was playing something wasn't right to start the game.. he was hesitant to throw the ball, and when he did the passes were not very good. Seemed to me it was before he took a hit, so I'm not sure that's what caused it. He got better as the game went on, but something was off right from the start
I'm pretty sure he took a helmet around the throat area. When he hit the ground he was holding his neck area.
I saw three plays in the first two drives that would have been 15 yd penalties for either blows to the head or lowering the head and delivering a blow to the qb. That shit shouldn't fly at all.
I hope this isn't going the direction of the McNabb Syndrome.
Not to sure what that means but please don't mention that name. I'm still bitter about the defensive penalty that gave that individual one more chance to beat the Hokies.
McNabb had a habit (even back at 'Cuse) of puking during big games. Curious thing.
I agree. That name makes me just angry. Now I want to punch my CPU screen.
I honestly believe that Brewer's back might be hurting from the OSU game. After he took a couple big hits in that game I didn't think he was as accurate later in the game. I think he only attempted 3 or 4 passes after those hits, but they really stuck out to me as being really off the mark and he had been very accurate up to that point. Historically he has completed 70% of his passes from high school and his time at Texas Tech and after the OSU game he had completed 70%. I think he was something like 52% against ECU. Granted there were a lot of drops in the ECU game but still that is a big drop off. Hopefully I'm wrong and he just had an off day. Honestly I didn't think anybody looked ready to play against ECU.
A lot of those drops were due to inaccurate passes. A couple should have been easy catches or even difficult catches due to the situation. - Like Isiah Ford's leaping bobble down the right sideline in the end zone, but there were plenty of balls that were too far ahead / too far behind the receiver for them to have a legit chance of catching them.
Like the pass to Rogers was over the wrong shoulder. No way to catch that ball and keep on his feet. A catch would have been a catch for a loss.
I will say that he threw a pass before the receiver even made his break that was very impressive. Late in the game, he threw an out(?) to Cam (?) down the left-hand side of the defense (visitor's side) while Cam was still streaking down the sideline. Cam made his break and the ball was right there waiting on him.
As he and those receivers continue to get on the same page over this year and next, it is going to be very interesting to see what the coaches can do with that combo.
Yeah, that was noteably impressive.
I believe they had another similar connection (thrown before the final cut) on the last drive. I noticed both of those plays, and got very excited for the next couple years, since that shows that Brewer understands timing, and is on the same page as Cam Phillips at least. I expect that as the season progresses, we'll start to see plays like that happening more and more, since he'll be spending more time in practice with his receivers. 3 months is nowhere near long enough to learn an entirely new offense AND build trust to the level where you can throw a ball to a spot, knowing that your receiver will be turning his head one step before that exact spot expecting a ball thrown his way.
On TV they showed trainers working on his back and/or equipment guys working on his back pads. I think his back may have been tight, and it was made worse by some kind of equipment issue.
Not long after that shot was when we scored our first TD.
Woah...surprised this puking isn't getting more play. That is definitely a sign of a concussion.
I surely hope that is not the case, but the other QB's better be staying focussed.
Lastly, I hope Brewer sits if he needs to. I'm all for being tough, but somebody needs to step in when you are being stupid. He has a long life outside of football ahead of him.
This ^
If he was puking, on top of the fact that he was pretty inconsistent yesterday, on top of the fact that I really thought he was concussed last week, makes me think he should sit for a bit. I remember seeing a shot on ESPN where he was sitting with a bunch of trainers around him, maybe his throwing up prompted that.
Disconcerting.
I agree with both of you.
Well he took a helmet right on the chin on third down near the goal by a linebacker coming on a delayed blitz- I believe even the announcers mentioned it. Then I saw one of the trainers pointing to his mouth. I figured he was bleeding but maybe it was puke.
Yeah I mentioned that in another thread. After that first hit he seemed to got his bell rung pretty good. Explains some over the 10 yard over throws.
Remember Tech uses those sensors in the helmets that will signal the trainers to an impact that could cause a concussion. I hope that its not a concussion and him trying to play through it and just soreness from being hit.
I could definitely be out of date on our cutting-edge program, but I was under the Impression that the sensors don't transmit real-time data. It's collected and then analyzed post-game or -practice to determine helmet performance.
I had the same concern during the OSU game, when he appeared rattled after taking some hard hits, but immediately returned to the game. Hope he's okay. A head injury's nothing to mess around with. The implications can be long-term. Believe me, I know.
Definitely. I think he got a concussion against OSU on that sideline hit and then played with it on Saturday. Puking in the 1st quarter is not a good sign.
I love that he is trying to be tough and help the team out, but he needs to rest if he has a concussion. He could be out for the year if he takes a big blow to the head while concussed.
If we sit Brewer, who plays?
PUT IN LEAL
Or Wild Turkey.
Yeah, let's take our best TE and turn him into a QB. That should work great! Wait... uhh... hmm... did anyone hear me say that?
You mean like we've already run a few times this year?
We've not run it 80 times a game which is about how many plays Brewer's replacement would be playing. And when we have run it, we've not done much with it. So yeah, I mean that one. And thanks for not getting the humor in my post.
Find the best Flag Football QB on-campus!
http://texastrianglesports.blogspot.com/2014/09/from-fraternity-intramur...
Sam Rogers, who will chuck the ball to Sam Rogers, who, after an outstanding block by Sam Rogers, will celebrate with Sam Rogers in the endzone.
And if the Ref pulls a flag to penalize the celebration, Sam Rogers will call a Time Out to ice the Ref...
... And it will work.
My biggest complaint yesterday was the lack of throws to Bucky Hodges in the 8-10 yard range on plays where we needed three or four yards to convert. Hodges is a complete mismatch in that area and yet we tried cutesy plays or running up the middle right into Williams rather than utilize our best weapon in those areas. Especially with Brewer having issues early, those are the kinds of throws that help gain confidence. For Hodges to only get two completions in that game was absolutely ridiculous, especially with Malleck hurt for a good portion of the game. Still will never understand how Hodges wasn't the 1st option on that 4th and Goal play in the end zone where we threw it away.
As for the defense, it was pretty embarrassing to have the announcers repeatedly talking about how we needed to at least put a zone scheme in place for a few plays to make Carden think about it before he threw up his sideline jump balls all game. Those throws would have been cake for Jarrett if he had played the same way we used him against OSU. Would have at least broken up a few and maybe killed their momentum.
All around embarrassing game and unfortunately not surprising with our track record of post big games, win or lose. If Beamer has an Achilles heel, its not getting the team up after a big game.
I was kinda thinking the same things during the game too...
I actually wonder if it's not a bit of overthinking on our coaches' parts. "Oh, they know we want to target Bucky in this situation, so we're going to do something that isn't as reliable but also isn't a statistical tendency."
Obviously, only people with a headset on the sidelines know for sure but that's what my gut tells me is happening sometimes.
I wish we had the "Student Body Right" mentality where we know it's happening, they know it's happening, Lucy and Ethel know it's happening, and the opponent's defense still can't stop it.
Maybe. It would seem obvious that you key on mismatches when the gameplan isn't working so well.
The 4th down play puzzles me also, the only thing I can think of is that Brewer say the collision with Malleck and thought if he threw in his general direction it would draw a flag and get a set of fresh downs... the problem was that Malleck collided with his teammate and not a defender
Also, kind of waiting on a French breakdown of the game to see if ECU was doing something special to cover Hodges, or what exactly was going on there, but as much as Lefty likes his TEs, it makes no sense to not go after that mismatch
I think Brewer also recognized the situation - turning the ball over on the 2 with ECU facing a blitz-happy Foster defense and hoping for the best (bastards got out of it... bummer) - and decided it was better than forcing something and throwing a pick in the end zone and letting 'em off the hook with a touchback or pick-6. Plus, ya never know, maybe we could've gotten lucky with a PI or holding call. I'm not upset at all by the decision.
I didn't see it as Brewer throwing it away, but rather he was throwing the ball early to a spot where he expected the receiver to break too. Unfortunately, our players didn't seem to be on the same page when it came to the rub route and ended up screening one another.
Brewer's an absolute champ. Guy gets tosses around like a rag doll and beaten down time and time again, makes mistakes, and gets up every time and comes up big when we need him. Not many guys could have had the game Brewer had (moments of success with a couple bad mistakes and some drops mixed in), come back and tie the game with a minute to go and then, when all hope was pretty much gone, get up yet again and give his team a legitimate shot at pulling it out at the end. Dude's got some heart, as does the rest of this team. It won't always be pretty, but you can bet your ass it's gonna be a dogfight every single week.
kids got a ton of heart you can tell he just wants to win so bad. I love it.
That was the hardest pill to swallow. After last week, I didn't think the D would drop a game for us like that this season, but ECU sure as heck had our number this week.
I was very unimpressed with the way Clark, Facyson, and Riley played the ball on a few of the deep plays they were beat on. However, a few of those, like the slightly underthrown back shoulder throws, are essentially impossible to defend in man to man, anyone who has played corner, receiver, or QB could tell you that.
Brewer has this:
edit: i commented to the wrong place.
Brewer is tough, seeing OSU hits my initial reaction was he has been concussed. They are very difficult to diagnose, symptoms can be delayed and vomiting is a symptom. I'm not a DR. but I'll share this:
My son plays soccer and had two tough travel games on same weekend last March. This kid is type that shakes off hits gets up keeps going and never pulls himself out of the game. He is tough. So after 2nd game of more hits he looked fine, acted his normal teen age boy way. I asked if he had any head aches - none. A week later on Sunday he looked a little off, misses a shot wide and also misses a header on high ball meanwhile looking a little awkward and off balance. In the early morning hours of Monday I awaken to him puking in the bath room. He only did this once to my knowledge. That day he still thinks he is fine, no concussion no head aches Mom thinks he is ok too. I get him to agree with a Doctor visit just to check. Dr. also says that he seems fine, but requests his High School perform baseline concussion test since they performed an initial test last fall.
And after taking test, kid still thinks he is fine as specialist is telling him that he has a concussion. His baseline results were off in 3 of 5 categories by more than 20%. Part of this was memory, but one also measured his reaction time. Ultimately, it took him till beginning of July to get cleared for return to play. His school performance was definitely off.
If Brewer is concussed it will eventually show. If he continues to play things will get worse and his recover and clearance to return to play will take longer. I really hope that he is fine, but I'm pretty sure he thinks he is fine too. Retaking his baseline concussion test is the key to determining if he has a concussion or not.
True.
Not to fuel any concussion conspiracy theories, but the effects of a sustained concussion can be long-lasting and significant.
Post-concussive syndrome can show itself with continued headaches, difficulty with concentration and decision-making and fatigue. Unfortunately imaging studies are limited in helping with a diagnosis so it becomes more of a clinical judgement-that is observation and cognition testing as you mentioned. The effects clear typically with rest/time-takes 1-2 months.
If Brewer's helmet was outfitted with the impact device, there should be data for the team physicians to consider that could be helpful. If this is the case, I'd have to give the staff the benefit of the doubt that this has been/will be reviewed and the best decision for M. Brewer will be made.
yeah - my stepson had something similar happen playing lacrosse. We took him in every week to be evaluated and it took almost a month for his scores to get back to normal. With all the emphasis on concussion of late and all the research VT has been involved in with sports-related concussion, surely we would not miss that diagnosis - would we?
Maybe that's a good question for the asst. coaches interviews this week .....
Then again, maybe he had the flu or just jitters from playing in front of the home crowd the first time or maybe too heavy a breakfast before exercising.
I used to do that on Saturdays we had rugby tournaments or I misjudged the start of a kickoff on a multiple game day.
10 minutes after the heavy exercise started I was leaning over the sideline.
Adrenaline, in large doses can cause nausea.
I recall the one hit Brewer took against ECU looked like the ECU guy's helmet caught Brewer on the chin and kind of knocked his helmet back a little where it was loose when he hit the ground. Between OSU and ECU he has taken a lot of hard shots.