My gut reaction was to immediately put the blame on Brewer, thinking the run game was alright and the defense really only gave up 20 points in the end.
But, as I was about to post, I thought about it and happened to find all kinds of things to blame this loss on. Sure, brewers stats were the worst, but when Georgia tech is throwing on us to get back in a game and they convert multiple times, we've got a problem on D. Or how about the kick coverage team with an easy chance for a safety? With a gt player in the end zone everybody broke down and came out of their lanes (looked that way on replay at least) and turned it into decent field position. A safety there gets us a 9 pt lead with the ball.
This game was a bit of a wild one. And while its easy to just blame brewer (and he deserves his share of blame), I feel there are so many points where we could have sealed this game and blew it. Which moments stand out to you guys?
Comments
4th and 15. 4th and freaking 15.
That happened in 2010 as well, but David Wilson was returning the KOs this time.
It's the new 4th and 26.
As an Eagles fan, nothing will top 4th and 26
As a Packers fan, literally everything tops 4th and 26.
All the illegal substitutions. Good god
Illegal substitution, on the offense, that's a 5-yard penalty...
Which moments? All of the moments. The game stands out to me. Dumpster fire.
Mental errors all-around, are killing this team. Also, JC is still being used on the wrong plays.
Why do we even try to get him in the game. I'm sorry, love the kid, but he struggles. He hits the brakes right before he gets hit. I think college ball intimidates him.
He's Shane's guy. Just like folks used to criticize Billy Hite for doing, Shane loves him a little RB who's a not that productive upperclassman.
Everyone sucked today, coaches, players, everyone didn't do well enough to win.
Also: fumble recovery on GT 10. Zero points.
When that fg got blocked is when I got the feeling we would lose. Didn't picture it the way it happened, but it was a gut feeling
It was very deflating. Blocked kicks are always huge momentum swings. That's how Beamer started building this program. Huge shifts at key times. Coming away with nothing there was one of the most crucial sequences of the game.
Slye was exceptionally slow to the ball on that one.
Yea, that was bad all around. Slow on the kick, blown protection on the left side. The previous kicks were timed better, but I was concerned about protection. Then it all fell apart, right on that play...
Our defense is overrated this yr. I'm just going to say it.
I like Brewer but we heard he makes smart decisions and takes care of the ball. Where is that?
Our D isn't good enough to play 0 coverage.. lets play some zone and make it easier for everyone including the fans
and i got a downvote for expressing my opinion awesome!!!!!!!!!
Agreed. Too many blind homers on here that overlook the problems.
I understand your frustration but you keep called out TKPers on the game thread and now this. No need for that. It's okay to be mad and frustrated at the team but calling out other posters is not the TKP way.
If OU defense has even a competent offense in front of it it's fine.
Every fan of this program needs to stop expecting and excusing the offense being a dumpster fire.
It's 2014, the game has changed. Having an offense that can do anything is important.
Expecting shutout every game is untealsitic in 2014.
Count on Duffman...
Making excuses for the defense...
Oh yeah!!!
The irony of course being that Duffman ultimately blames the beer. 4th and 15 against a QB with 42 passing yards all day. And he gets 50 on the next 3 plays.
When the defense is on the field alm game because the offense can't do shit and keeps turning it over, what do you expect exactly?
This program is where it is right now because of people excusing offensive ineptitude for the last decade.
The defense isn't the damn problem.
This.
VT won TOP, have any other theories?
TOP means little when you have 3 turnovers and a missed FG.
Yeah but other than that...
All the defense fault.
didn't say it did, just correcting an argument that we lost because our defense was on the field all game
We lost because our offense couldn't do their job and score and kept turning the damn ball over.
Not because the defense failed to stop one 4 th and 15 play.
I've not made a comment anywhere today about a 4th and 15 play, are you sure you're replying to the right person?.. I'm the person that corrected you about the defense being on the field the whole game
we let GT a option team come back and win the game by passing the football effectively 4 times. When they had done absolutely nothing all game long... however if you watched the game they were wide open multiple times and didn't connect.
This time they did and it really cost us ANOTHER GAME!!!!!!!!!! wooohooo!!!!!!!
another downvote for yet another opinion!!!!!!!
None. The offense is great.
So what's your solution?
Pro tip : the GT defense allowed, what 35 to GA southern?
How do you fix this? What the call, coach?
my solution is to not blame it on the defense being on the field the whole game, because that obviously wasn't the case
Didn't answer the question, argued semantics instead.
Fix this team, go. Where to you start, the defense?
You start with the entire coaching staff.
Outside of the 3 horrible INTs that Brewer had today, you cannot fault the players for this game. They executed what the coaching staff told them to do, and we still collapsed and fell apart with a double digit lead. At home. In our conference opener. The week after allowing an opponent to go 65 yards with under 2 minutes left in the game. When you have 4 or 5 Illegal Substitution calls against you in one game, with most of those coming at times where it knocked us out of manageable down and distances or goal to go situations, that's not on the players. That's on the coaching staff for not being prepared for the play and the game. And this is a continuance of the same exact thing from last week.
At a certain point, you can't blame the players for not executing when you're simply not calling a good game. We gave up the game tying TD with a corner blitz where the guy blitzing left the guy who ended up scoring uncovered. This was a couple plays after we played a soft man to man on 4th and 15 allowing a 20 yard gain. Yes, the offense had numerous issues today that HAVE to be addressed and fixed if we hope to go to a bowl, but lets not pretend that the defense shares absolutely no blame. When the game was on the line, for the second week in a row, the defense crumbled. Over the last few years, this is an ongoing trend that has to be concerning for anyone following this team. Outside of that Ohio State game, which is looking more and more like a fluke by the minute, our defense cannot close out games.
watch out he will come back with but but the offense... and then will mock you for having an opinion.
So if you could change one thing about this team you would replace the entire coaching staff?
Replace? No, not yet at least.
If they can't get their act together and coach this team to the level at which is expected of a coaching staff making the salary they do? Then yes, they all deserve to go.
You don't get called for at least 7 Illegal Substitution penalties over the course of 2 weeks and then say there aren't issues with the coaching staff.
And by the way, if you want to continue arguing semantics and pushing your agenda, I suggest you keep it to the thread you started.
Dude, we get the point. You want people to pick one thing. You have an entire thread about it. But the point of this thread is that the team failed across the board with this game.
Not to mention the fact he asks "so what would you fix" and he gets a reply of "the coaches need to do better" and he immediately jumps to "oh, so you want to fire all the coaches". Talk about a complete oversimplification of a very complex issue.
Your solution to a "very complex issue" is "do better?"
If you could fix one thing about this program it would be "Better coaching?"
Did I really mischaracterize your very insightful and nuanced position that much originally?
I understand that's what you think.i don't agree.
I think the defense played admirably against a very capable offense for most of the game. I agree they had moments that can be improved upon, but overall were not responsible in a majority role for the loss.
I can't say the same for the offense. I understand that as a hokie fan you expect offensive ineptitude and defensive perfection. I encourage you to expect a more balance approach to the game as a whole.
look at the stats Brewer has today 28-39 for 297 yards 0 td's and 3 int and 1 Run Td. so he threw for 71% had 3 bad decisons, other than that he played his god damn ass off. He takes shot after shot after shot because our o line can't block and you can't even give him credit. you can't blame brewer for the L or even the O-line.. there is no blame..
we came out and played another poor game. Look at FSU they played extremely poor and still snuck out a win. why because when it mattered their D was able to stop clemson on 4th and 1. 4th and 20 really 4th and 20 and we play soft single coverage. yeah Bud had a great game for the most part but it wasn't just good enough.
Brewer threw three interceptions, yet he played his ass off and " when it mattered" the defense is to blame for the loss?
Sorry, tied 24-24, when it mattered the first thing he did was throw a bloody interception to set up the game winning FG.
Keep blaming the defense though, damn that Bud Foster.
Never said I had a solution, was simply correcting your asinine argument that VT lost because the defense was on the field the whole game... admit you were wrong and move on
And how had the defense done all game before then? The best offense in the country on third down, how did the defense do against them all fucking game?
Football games are 60 minutes long. The defense did it's part for the vast majority of that time...
Did the offense?
Expect more out of your football team. Demand it.
does bud foster know what zone defense is? I understand the offense didn't do well but bud they came through in the end again and bud straight up decided lets blitz time and time again... good teams are able to play a simple zone and get out of there with a win. I love how aggressive bud is but sometimes you need to slow down and play prevent.
Nope Bud Foster is stupid and doesn't know anything about zone defense.
You're smarter than Bud Foster and have figured out that the problem with this team is not enough zone defense.
I have been here on the board for awhile and I don't appreciate your attitude.
I never said I was smarter, but how many times does one have to get beat in the last two minutes to figure out we can't play like that all the time. We have 1 capable db that can do that, the others are not playing so hot. Lets throw a 2 deep in there and make them work for it. Instead we play 1db he slips and we have 0 fucking cover so its a 20 yard play on 4th and 15!
enjoy the night punk a$$
Your multiple personal attacks are uncalled for. You say you have been on this board a long time, but you don't act like it.
Perhaps in the morning you can discuss this topic with more maturity.
hahah what a big baby.. you can go around saying its the offense's fault then when someone challenges your theory you give an a-hole sarcastic response and then finish it off with this gem!!!
I'm not the only one in the past 2 weeks that has a problem with you buddy so how about you look in the mirror and realize bud needs to adjust the defense late in games if we want to win.
I don't understand your desire for repeated personal attacks. I'm sorry for having a different opinion than you.
I'm sorry that losses in a football game upset you so much that you lash out at fellow fans and make such attacks on other people on the Internet .
But if that's what you need that's cool too. I think some perspective is in order and you need to find healthy outlets to work through your obvious anger issues.
I wish you the best of luck in your journey.
wow you're just like jameis you don't get it. if you were really sorry then you wouldn't post sarcastic responses to mine and others opinions that bud has been choking the d the past 2 games!!!
I have an opinion as well and it might not be right but what makes you the decider of that. When french and the other major posters here say yeah zone would be dumb and explain why other than a sarcastic post I would listen. But if memory serves me right they did say some zone would be a nice look late when we need it. Think about it its easier on these true freshman and other db's that have little game experience. You know that double move/pump fake that riley bit on, if we have any safety in the game i doubt the qb throws it. Instead we have 0 coverage and that's an easy TD. Also when fuller slipped a safety might have been able to come up and help instead it was an easy catch and 1st down.
see below....
even you agree the Db's are getting 0 help so wouldn't zone every once in awhile be of some help.. oh wait i forgot I'm smarter than Bud and should be the coach so the answer is yes
another downvote for an opinion.!!!
I honestly can't read a lot of This post. Is your contention that were playing a lot of freshman DBs and they need help ?
Answer me one sentence, the biggest problem with This team right now is. ________.
Again, I keep trying to engage you like an adult who wants to discuss football. If that's too challenging for you or not what you are looking for in an Internet discussion board please engage someone else.
I have no desire to participate in the childish name calling or any of the other nonsense you seem dedicated to here.
the biggest problem with our team now is______ not being able to make changes/corrections mid game. Great teams are able to figure out what works and what isn't.. Why did we pass the ball on 2nd and 1 when shai was running well? Why do we constantly play 0 coverage when we need 1 more stop and we get the W. Why do we run a JC misdirection when he had carried the ball 0 times this game.
I am all for adult conversations and I understand everyone has a different opinion. No one here is a genius obviously. However when you sarcastically say I am smarter than Bud and I know how to run the Defense when I am just trying to share my opinion that's kinda crummy on your behalf.
Don't be disingenuous, you're not trying to share anything. You called me an asshole and a punk ass and all sort of other uncalled for personal attacks.
You can't backtrack now. Own your behavior or don't, either way it's uncalled for.
I'm not backing down... if i get banned so be it life and the losses will keep pilling up until we make adjustments on both sides of the ball. I bet every post on here that mentions the defense you came back and said oh oh the offense lost the game.. yeah regardless we lost. the d played terrible and the offense lost it when we needed 1 first down
Also you then own up to your sarcastic not needed comment for me sharing my opinion.. the street goes both ways how about you hop off the horse and figure that out.
The d held one of the best offenses on the country an third down to 2 of 7 at one point. I feel like your characterization of their performance as "terrible" to be a gross lack of appreciation.
To many fans at this school take amazing defensive performances for granted while continually excusing abhorrent offenses.
Expect more out of the entirety of your team. I'm sorry this sentiment upsets you so much.
I appreciate the D a whole lot but they had some big mistakes that also didn't show up on the score board. They played our offense played well however we didn't play well enough to win the game simple as that.
Again big mistakes in all 3 phases of the game offense defense and special teams..
Big mistakes in all three phases, but the only one you're on here complaining about is the defense.
My position is that of the three phases, the one that deserves the least amount of ire is the defense considering the performance. Because of this opinion you called me an asshole and a punk ass.
If you sit back and play zone an option team will run for 10 ypc, bud knows what he is doing. We just didn't execute....
So on 4th and 15 they'll run the ball?? The last drive/2 Drives were full of passes.
I agree If we play zone all game we get crushed for sure that's not a question.
Yes, a sweep to the wide side or quarterback follow against a soft zone easily get 15 yards.
laughable at best 8 yards.. and if they do get 15 at least its not a pass by possibly the worst passing team in FBS.
that was embarrassing
He's made great decisions the vast majority of the time. Like with Logan, he just has 3 or 4 terrible plays per game. Considering he's been in a very complex system for all of about 2 months, I'm personally willing to give the guy a little time to right the ship here. He's shown he can make good decisions and good throws, he's just gotta do it more consistently.
Not to mention that there are defenses in the ACC, unlike the Big12 where there's seemingly only the Sooners to worry about. (half joking)
Yeah, we've got some real lock down defenses in the ACC. Just ask UNC. Uh... what's that? Oh, never mind...
This has to be one of the all time most pathetic performances by Virginia Tech. Can't stop cursing and shaking my head...my poor wife.
We should have been up 20-3 in the first half alone. GT is NOT a good football team, and NOT a good defense.
WORST case pound the ball and run out clock and walk in with a 16-3 lead and the ball in the second half.
Kinda hard to pound the ball and run out the clock when we can't run block to save our lives.
Pound the ball was probably the wrong turn of phrase, but methodically move down the field which we have been decent at this year, and at the very least we should have eaten the clock, gotten a field goal in the least and gone into the half with a 2 possession lead and about to get the ball back.
I miss Al Groh
Why can we run WR screens but fail so miserably with Any screen in the middle of the field? It's a basic play.
This. Just some more fuel on top of the dumpster fire going on right now.
Lane Stadium is NOT a tough place to play anymore. And a lot of that is because the team is no good anymore. 0-4 against that "gauntlet"
That EDM between plays is killing the team's performance. Adding another brass section would have sealed it.
Techno
Tech no
Tech no win
There's something here, I can feel it.
Well, we all expected Tech no win....We just thought it'd be GiT.
EDM?
Electronic dance music.
Don't feel bad about not knowing. Most of us only figured it out in the Open Letter thread.
God I hope you're joking. Thanks to the Internet I can't even tell Anymore. Poes Law
Saddest part, within last two seasons...
Oddly enough Dawson's Creek was filmed close to where ECU is. Now this?
I think the wrong team got pumped by fourth quarter Sandman....
Man, I was shaking my head when I heard that come on. Yeah, it was fourth and 15, but there was over two minutes left. Even if we stopped GT, there was still a chance they could do something afterwards. Not like the Miami game where there was only 5 seconds left, so it was essentially fourth and goal from the 50.
I BLAME HOKIESPORTS. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED MY ASS
Wait... they created that shirt?
To my knowledge it was Fanatics that created it. That being said, mission accomplished indeed
the hurry up, under center running game seemed to be working.. not sure if all the penalties put VT in throwing downs, or if they just went away from it.. frustrating
Overreacting much? Our STARTING DEFENSE was highly thought of, but we have no depth. With a healthy defensive backfield and any line depth this is a different game. As for the offense and special teams, you have to realize that they have played together for about a month, that is going to lead to issues. We got too high after the OSU win but this team is exactly what we knew we had coming into the year, extremely talented, but extremely young and thin on depth.
I almost passed out in the nez today without 30 pounds of equipment and a dark jersey.... give the team a break. We need to get behind our boys and stay positive, it is a long season. Hokies don't complain when we get beat, we pick up our lunchpail and move on.
Yup. Another blind homer who doesn't want to admit that anything is wrong. Keep telling yourself that everything will be just fine while we coast to a 7 win season and bottom of the barrel bowl.
We gave up a 4th and 15 in a drive that they tied it up on. That's not good. We had a couple of other breakdowns in the secondary but they missed open receivers. The D was had a hand in the loss.
that game was a debacle in every sense of the word.
This was the first game we were able to drive up for this year. I loved the fan experience. Thought some of the changes with music were good. One thing I noticed and am wondering if anyone else did is the lack of communication on the sidelines? Didn't see the typical fired up Bud Foster. Saw Sam Rogers trying to talk up the offense but not much from others. Hearing some of what was said postgame (I hhad to cut it off) has me concerned that FB has maybe let his new coaches get loose and he needs to pull them back in.
FWIW, that wouldn't have been a safety if he had been tackled in the endzone on that kickoff. Even though he touched it, until he gains possession or the kicking team touches it, the kicker is ruled to have generated the force to get the ball into the end zone. He could've (and probably should've) just taken a knee and gotten the touchback.
He touched it outside of the endzone and had to pick it up in the endzone. Safety.
Doesn't matter. If you're really interested, it's in Rule 8 in the rulebook. His touching the ball isn't considered an added force. On a free kick, the kick is the force that put the ball there until the kick ends (either touched by a defensive player or possession is gained by the return team).
Isn't it simply a live ball once he catches it? Regardless of "added force" (never heard that, but I admit I've never actually read the full rulebook), on a kick or punt, if the receiver touches the ball but doesn't retain possession, it's live, no? He then backs across the goal line to recover the fumble, regains control of himself (not momentum), and returns toward the field, juking past the defender. That's not a safety if he gets tackled?
Free kick (kickoff) and scrimmage kick (punt or field goal) rules are completely different (although, come to think about it, in the receiving team's end zone, it's still the same thing). Point is, yes, it's live (still was live anyways on a free kick) and no, it's not a safety. What he does in the endzone doesn't matter at all. All that matters is how the ball got in there, and in the case of a free kick (or a scrimmage kick for that matter), until the returner controls the ball, the kick is determined to be the force that put the ball in the end zone.
Huh. Learn something new every day.
Tell me about it. We had a whole big presentation about it on Monday in our officials' meeting, and it turns out, after checking out the college rule book, the same holds true in the NCAA.
Then on some level I'm glad we didn't actually manage to tackle him at that point, because I would have been furious and would have been wrong. Bad combination.
Yeah, that would've been frustrating. A tackle at the 5 would've been a nice way to wrap that play up. Alas.
Happened on the opening kickoff for Wisconsin this year, don't remember who they were playing. Return man touched the ball outside of the endzone and picked it up and kneeled in the endzone. They called safety.
I know exactly what you're talking about, but tat was different. He got the ball, came out, and then retreated. He had possession of the ball outside of the end zone and went back in. Kick ended with his possession of the ball and him backing up was the force that put the ball in the end zone. Safety.
I think what hurts most is to see our team consistently beat itself. I dont believe we got beat today...we clearly lost the game for ourselves and that is why games like this one piss us all off. Fans should be pissed. We are a proud school with great traditions but games like this one kill us. They just suck and started at noon no less!
This. 1000x this. Ugh.... we did just enough to lose this game time and time again. Bad blocks, bad decisions (by both ballcarriers and Brewer), bad tackling... just a bad, painful day.
Agree. I'm ok....well not ok but less pissed, when we just get beat. ECU just beat us (and we still had a chance to win that game but we got outplayed). This week we beat ourselves. So frustrating.
i blame the paper airplanes...marcolini would agree with me
Paper airplanes were horrible at the game. Started in Q1 and kept up the whole game.
About 5 flew over my head in west stands. One hit my daughter in the 4th Q.
She asked me, "Shouldn't they be watching the football players and not throwing paper airplanes, Daddy?"
Good for an 8 year old.
Tough loss on many levels, but the fact is that the team: coaches, players, staff are not quite ready for prime time.
This one is REALLY easy to point fingers in multiple directions, but as much as I can, the team will be doing it even more.
All I can do is say 'Go Team-do better next time' and step back and support our guys while they figure it out.
Frustrated, but still a Hokie.
The story of our lives it seems like, sometimes.
Something about these nooners isn't passing the smell test to me. Everyone doesn't seem to be 100% focused. I really don't think it's a coincidence the 2 games we've won were in the afternoon/evening. Execution and poise are just out the window.
Wonder how the other teams manage to focus for a noon game...
Agreed. The team is not getting the coaching right now, kickoff time has nothing to do with it.
Neither team looked particularly sharp yesterday.
We're not the only team across the nation involved in noon games. Pretending noon games are too early for our team to gain focus is BS. Hinting that noon games are too early for our team to gain focus is BS. That is weak, and totally wrong. As Beamer said himself - if we have to wait until Saturday to be ready to play, we've got a problem. It is completely false to claim or hint that three hours time difference on Saturday is crippling this program.
They're playing an away game at Lane Stadium lol. I concede I'm just grasping at very short straws.
All I want to say is stop calling this secondary DBU. I have no problem with saying it in reference to the successful alumni in the NFL but Fuller is the only db worth his salt right now, and even he tripped over himself on the game-losing pass. I know there were other way bigger problems the last two weeks but if I see that freaking #dbu thing flash on the scoreboard again next week after getting shredded by freaking ecu and gt in critical situations I'm gonna be pissed. They need to earn that title and they've been terrible.
They're not getting any help. Everyone's asking a lot and when they can't deliver all the time everyone shits on them.
Major expectation management is in order.
We played a team that typically runs nothing but run option. The DBs should be able to handle one on one with light safety support.
Why do you think fuller got beat on some, cause he had to honor the run so much.
Is 100% perfection on every play a reasonable expectation of the defense?
Why don't you expect the same from the offense?
Why is an entire game of dumpster fire football from the offense excusable, but a handful of bad plays from the defense inexcusable?
The offense was never supposed to be good. Not that that excuses their performance at all, there's plenty of blame to go around. But this so called amazing secondary that everyone keeps praising as one of, if not the best in the country should be able to not repeatedly leave receivers wide open on critical drives late in the game, regardless of what the front seven is doing. ESPECIALLY not against Georgia freakin Tech.
Again, I'm not saying they're the only problem. But they've been a big one and definitely the biggest disappointment by far given their reputation.
I don't know if it's just me and the way I like to see football played, but it does seem like we call entirely too many plays that start in the backfield. It'll be 3rd and 2, so we decide to run out of shotgun, which means we run for four or five yards before getting to the line of scrimmage. In that time, the defense has crashed the line and we lose yardage.
Here's a painful reminder:
Remember not long ago (pre-season) there seemed to be an emphasis on trying to re-establish our rushing attack? And in the 4th quarter when we were actually moving the ball on the ground for positive yards and controlling the clock it seemed like we were gonna just cram it down the Wrecks' throats? Then came that middle screen pass.
Can't stop SMH.
And yes to all of the above.
My eyes... It felt like my eyes were being raped for 2 and a half hours. It was almost as bad as watching 5 Jersey Shore episodes back to back, except at least you know what to expect out of that show.
Not as bad as watching ECU, which apparently was the longest game in Lane.
Was there a headset issue during the game? I can't remember the time, but we were near the Corps end zone. Beamer ripped off his headset and gave it to the WR coach who looks like Vince Vaughn.
Our WR coach IS Vince Vaughn.. idk about the headsets
Vince Vaughn wouldn't allow that many illegal substitutions.
Why did Shane use all 5 running backs today?
because he had to make sure jc got a shot to show us why he is the #1 back.. SARCASTICAAAAAAAAA
Brewer, please focus. I still believe you're a smart QB but I am starting to wonder if we have a disconnected coaching staff who doesn't smell the coffee....was Chad Morris really trying to help?
The real deal leal
Good QB they said. 9 turnovers they never said
20 2nd and 2s. Zero play actions. Deon newsome is in? So jet sweep?
Saw more paper airplanes in east than I've ever seen in north. Old school fans they said?
Need to put the best players in the field, this includes the O line. Very pleased we're Tarting new playmakers at RB & WR, but we need some fresh blood in the line
Is there something really strange happening in the locker room under Shane & Moorhead?
Tarting:
r.v. tarted, tarting, tarts Chiefly British
To dress up or make fancy in a tawdry, garish way. Often used with up.
Maybe they have too much extra "up" and need to balance it out.
What does Shane know about running backs? Dude was a long snapper/cheerleader in his playing days.