http://www.rockymounttelegram.com/sports/high-schools/nash-centrals-gain...
For the past month and a half, Gaines had thought he was communicating on social media with a member of the Gators coaching staff. He said just minutes after he committed on Friday, that person was Florida assistant coach Brad Lawing.
But that couldnt have been further from the truth.
Gaines according to Nash Central athletics director Michael Mosley was catfished
I am not sure what to think about this. I feel bad for the kid to be embarrassed, at the same time to make an assumption based on anything less than a direct confirmed communication from the head coach is beyond baffling. I also am not sure what the Hokie coaching staff should do at this point. Most felt that Gaines was heading to Blacksburg, and Coach Wiles made the trip to Gaines last home game, which would indicate that the coaching staff feels he can be a contributor. So, do they reengage, or is Gaines persona non grata at this point?
Comments
Feel so bad for the kid. Makes me wonder wher the adults in his life were in this process. HS football coach? I think the coaches should lay back and let him come yo them. I trust the coaches judgement.
I think you do what Frank Beamer has always done with his players already in the program:
Be supportive. Be respectful. Demand respect in return. And if mistakes were made, allow for a second chance if the athlete commits to fixing those things that can be fixed.
Look: Everyone is guilty of believing what they want to believe at some times. And it's not outside the realm of normal behavior to over-sell to yourself and others what that belief is.
When a kid does this, do you tell him to pound sand and talk to someone who cares, or do you reach out and offer support and give a lifeline back to firm ground?
Frank throws a lifeline. He believes that people can be better if given an opportunity, and I believe him.
So yeah, let Gaines know we would still love to have him in the program. Let him know we don't hold grudges for things he said when trying to make himself believe what he wanted to believe. Let him know that a home isn't just where football is, but is where people have the support to be able to make mistakes and grow from them.
^
Coach Beamer should reach out to Gaines and communicate, in effect: "Look son, the Hokies haven't changed a lick. We've been upfront with you this whole time and we are what we are and we view you the same. We offered you and think you would be valuable to our program. If you like that/us, welcome-we will continue to be up front with you your entire career at VT: that's how we do. If you want something else, that's fine too. "
I think in the greater picture, it's an opportunity for VT to emphasize the contrast between us and 'them'-we might not be the sexiest, and we don't use smoke and mirrors, but we will back up what we have told you, and in the end, that has value too.
This part stands out to me:
I understand the trendy thing now is a "committable offer" versus a "non-committable offer" but I'm calling BS. That's ridiculous and it's just coaches playing with these kids' lives. I understand that verbal offers are soft because of NCAA regulations, and maybe they shouldn't exist, but this to me is just blatant dishonesty. You don't make someone an offer that you don't intend to uphold yourself. You can't tell a kid (again, remember these are high school kids with stars in their eyes) "you'll have a scholarship to top school X," and then when the kid accepts it, you say "we'll get back to you." It's an unfair position of power for the coaches; they can play anyone they want while holding out for the prettier prom date.
As for whoever catfished Gaines, what a lowlife. I feel terrible for Gaines and the position he's in. I sincerely doubt he ends up being a Hokie. He said it himself, without football, he couldn't see himself in Blacksburg. I respect that because it was honest. It's just not the school for him, and it's a choice he has to make. Maybe that arose because whoever this booster/ambassador/troll was fed him a bunch of crap, and maybe Gaines changes his mind. Who knows. What an awful situation. This is why Twitter, and social media in general, are both powerful tools and powerful weapons.
Gaines should've known he wasn't a high priority target for Florida when they didn't show up to his game while VT coaching staff was there recruiting him. whatever comes out of it, this has no blemish on VT whatsoever. good luck to Gaines on this whole ordeal.
What bothers me the absolute most in this case... Wiles was down there recruiting this kid in person just last week, and yet he commits to Florida after being "catfished"? For those unaware, being "catfished" means to be fooled into thinking someone you are talking with over the phone and online is not who they claim to be. So it REALLY stands out that Gaines committed to Florida based solely upon the false faceless recruitment over the phone and online of someone who doesn't actually exist, over teams who were there recruiting him in person even days leading up to his decision.
If I'm Wiles and I found out that all that work I've been doing went for naught over a school who was supposedly only keeping in touch via text and call while I'm busting my ass to visit in person and actually show I care... I dunno, I'd have a very difficult time wanting to continue my recruitment of him.
"If I'm Wiles and I found out that all that work I've been doing went for naught over a school who was supposedly only keeping in touch via text and call while I'm busting my ass to visit in person and actually show I care... I dunno, I'd have a very difficult time wanting to continue my recruitment of him."
Agreed.
But if it's your job to recruit the best talent available, and he's available, you suck up your hurt feelings and recruit him, don't you?
a 3* DE probably isn't the best talent available.
best talent does not always = best fit. This kid has made it clear that he does not enjoy being in Blacksburg and that he REALLY wants to be a UF. I can certainly understand why Wiles might chose not to pursue him any more.
Dunno. In the end these are just kids making adult decisions. A lot of them are bound to make a mistake. In this case I think he had stars in his eyes about a big SEC program in a location he loves and he believed what he was fed, no matter how suspect it was. I have done that in business on a project before, been led down the rabbit hole only to find there is nothing down there. It sucks but by no means do i think it should be held against him with our offer.
Look at it another way, we offer a kid that is really a high attraction. Got loads of offers. Kid shows most interest in big programs, Hokies are down the ladder. Then he gets hurt. offers dry up, or are suddenly non-committal. We keep our word and let the kid know he is welcome here no matter what. Kid comes to VT.
I see it the same way. Give the kid a break and reach out.
Well, to be fair, this guy's intelligence was already a little suspect with his comments towards VT, so I am not surprised at this kind of news. The silver lining is that Manti Teo made it to the NFL.
So every person who didn't go to VT has "suspect intelligence"?
If I were him and I'd saw this, I'm not sure if I wanted to go to VT either.
Yes, that's it, lets kick the guy while he's down and insult the intelligence of a recruit we're still in the running for....
I get the joke. He got duped, shit sucks but come on, I feel like this kind of thing should be avoidable with at least some attention to detail.
Yeah, it was a joke and not meant to be taken very seriously. I apologize for that comment though. Manti Teo's situation was 100x more embarrassing, to be fair.
Okay...
People, he's a high school kid. My brother is a high school kid. My brother and his friends live by the internet. Wikipedia is the truth to them. That's just how this generation is going to be. Social media is a legitimate communication platform to them. And they have yet to learn that it is the least reliable form of communication.
And I'll emphasize KID here. High schoolers are still kids. They don't think they are, they don't want to be treated like they are, but they ARE. They have so much to learn. They don't have the life experience to pull from like those of us who are past college, past grad school, past marriage, and past having children of our own. You live and you learn. I try my best to tell my brother all my mistakes and suggest different ways to get through situations, but because he's a kid, he 1) doesn't listen, 2) thinks he knows better than me. Sometimes, it's just best to let them live and learn in their own way, make their own mistakes.
Gaines is a kid. He is a high school kid. He probably has no idea what to expect as far as recruiting goes. I know I don't because I never went through it. My brother plays baseball and he would love to play for a Division 1 program. But even I can't help him with what to expect because I didn't go through the process myself. And neither did my parents. That's why I ask all my friends who were student athletes what to expect, and what their individual experience was like. I'd be willing to bet that Gaines' parents never went through the process either and have no helpful insight for him.
So considering all that, I don't fault the kid one bit. I truly feel for him, especially since he thought he was getting a scholarship from the school and program of his dreams. If something like this happened to my brother, I'd be outraged.
Recruiting is changing. And the NCAA needs to address it. They've tried, but it's not enough. Social media will continue to be a problem for the NCAA if they don't make it clear moving forward that this kind of behavior is unacceptable. Fans, not just coaches and administrators, have an obligation to not be misleading. The NCAA has the power to protect recruits from these idiots on social media and they need to do it. I promise that if the NCAA makes the schools liable for their fans in these types of situations, this will stop. The schools will make sure of it.
I hope that Gaines learns from this, becomes better for it, commits to a place he truly loves and doesn't regret his choice, and that Hokie fans on twitter never stoop to this level.
I agree with everything you wrote except where you mentioned the NCAA. They can't control anyone who is not directly connected to the program, whether they try to or not.
There should be a criminal fraud investigation to try and identify the catfisher. If I were a sentencing judge, I'd make the penalty to be whatever the guy promised to the kid.
If he promised a car and a scholarship, then the penalty would be whatever the penalty is for fraud + the car and scholarship.
Make it very public and these types of things will be rare.
I like this.
It'll never happen, but I like it.
Indeed. A criminal investigation should be rather easy, I would imagine. Just turn over the Twitter handle and the phone number of whoever it was . Since it is fraud, a criminal investigation can compel email and IP information from Twitter and the person should be found rather easily.
Unfortunately, the government wouldn't take this route and prosecute someone due to "catfishing".
Catfishing is a law enforcers' best way of catching illegal acts in the first place (i.e. prostitution and drug trafficking). There's no way they're going to make it illegal or else they'll lose one of the police's most effective tactics.
Plus, Dateline NBC would have to be prosecuted and Chris Hansen would have to "take a seat" in court.
Either that or put him in a pit with a Gator.
The Gator said it wouldn't accept the offer
My immediate reaction was to wonder if it wasn't someone connected to the Florida staff stringing guys along in case they can't land higher priority recruits. A criminal investigation would be great here.
Anything that could lead to Florida being placed on probation is all right with me.
IANAL, but I don't think you can prosecute someone for criminal fraud if they haven't materially gained from said fraud.
It stinks but in general, lying to people is legal.
If the perp was claiming that he worked for UF, isn't there a statute covering impersonation of public officials to prosecute under?
He just posted on twitter that he is not committed and his recruitment is open.
Based on my strictly law enforcement prior life knowledge, it would be very very difficult under any laws I know of, but in Missouri, to prosecute under criminal law. Unless the person implying they are someone tries to get money out of you, committing "fraud", which is a tough case to get through, there are really no laws to keep this in check. The problem is multi fold but involves first amendment rights and laws not catching up to technology.
So there isn't a way for Florida to find the guy and press charges for...I dunno, claiming they're a representative of the organization when they weren't? There's no way to turn that into some sort of charge for impersonation?
I think this person could be charged with "making false claims," which is a federal offense. I think a fraud charge is appropriate, if it can be established that the actions of the impersonator would be such that he/she was knowingly manipulating Gaines into thinking he had a possible financial benefit, viz. full-ride scholarship. I'm no lawyer, though.
I understand that it's extremely lame to impersonate a coach and fool a kid into committing to a school when he doesn't have an actual scholarship offer, but is it really befitting to bring federal charges against someone for doing so? I find it difficult to agree with that. There was a kid a few years ago who claimed to have offers from D1 schools and even held a commitment ceremony to "commit" to one until it was revealed those schools didn't know who he was and never recruited him. In this case, the kid wasn't catfished but rather put on a show to draw attention to himself. I don't think that kid should be charged with "making false claims" and learned that he made an embarrassing mistake.
I think the most interesting/bizarre part is that an impersonator successfully out-recruited actual coaches going after Gaines, which opens up an interesting can of worms on what's stopping boosters/fans essentially doing the same thing for their own favorite school using the anonymity of the internet.
You're defrauding someone into believing you are someone you are not and convincing them to potentially make enormous financial decisions based on your fraudulent behavior.
Yes, I believe cases like this deserve to be prosecuted. Defrauding someone like this can and should be illegal and able to be prosecuted.
And a Nigerian prince emailed me an offer for millions of dollars if I wired him a couple hundred.
Was it immoral do to trick Gaines into a verbal commitment? I'm certainly not disagreeing with that. But do verbal commitments involve anything with regards to signing a legal document/contract? No. as we've learned dozens of times, verbal commitments are completely non-binding for both the school and player. A verbal commitment honestly means nothing from a legal standpoint and as long as Gaines or his family weren't tricked into giving someone money through this ordeal, there wasn't any direct financial impact from these actions.
Now if he had been defrauded into signing a fake LOI provided by a false representative of a school, it would be a different story and I'd agree with what you're saying. As it stands now, I'd be on board with a fine, community service, and/or internet/phone restrictions for the guilty party. However, charging someone with a felony federal offense over this would be an extreme punishment and waste of money/resources to prosecute such a case in my opinion.
I guess the extreme example could be that what would happen if a kid committed to a school verbally through fraudulent contact (fraudulent in the sense the person was saying they were/could offer something that they were not/could not offer). And then lets say the other schools interested in that prospect moved on and filled their slots, leaving no scholarship available, then does it enter the realm of criminal fraud?
If we want to tow the line that scholarships are a form of financial compensation (which they are), then it is a natural extension to then say that scholarships from some institutions are worth more than those from others. Losing out on something that the NCAA (and anti-paying player folks) claim has monetary value (which it does), to me seems like a reasonable excuse to go after someone that does such things.
You can pretend to be anyone you want in most places. That is why laws like "Stolen Valor", Federal law against lying about miltary service and awards, was struck down. Now you have to gain something from the lie in order for it to be a crime. Has to be a financial gain in most cases.
There is no possible way there will be prosecution or charges. It just isn't going to happen.
This should just serve as a cautionary tale to all recruits. High School coaches should be talking about stories like this to their players.
I feel sorry for the kid but it sounds like he wasn't planning on coming to Blacksburg anyway.
This won't be the last time someone gets duped.
What are the chances the orchestrator of all of this is some kid Gaines knows that didn't like him and wanted to embarrass him?
In that case, it might be able to be prosecuted as a cyberbullying something or other, yes? I'd need one of the legal eagles here to drop in on that though.
Missouri is the only state that has a strong cyber bullying law.
It would be really hard to prove cyber bullying and then in fact, prosecute for it.
Its hard to prosecute for cyber bullying even when there is evidence.
I was weary of the NCAA's stance that "unlimited" snapchat contact was going to be legal. This just furthers my concerns. I know its difficult to track, and thus easy to manipulate for schools trying to get recruits. But this is the dark side of that. Hopefully this KID can figure things out and not be hurt by this by missing out on a real offer or getting passed up because a school that is interested has already moved on and filled his place-holder scholarship offer with another kid.
And I don't see the NCAA having the ability to handle a situation like this, even though technically there weren't any violations per their rules. (Even if the guy was legit and not a fraud, it's still within the bounds of what they allow.)
Makes me wonder what that faker was telling him to sway his decision without ever meeting him in person. Hopefully just offering him playing time and telling him nice things to boos his ego, just sayin...
There are pictures of the actual offer letter from Florida, and pictures of him with the Brad Lawing who he was supposed to have contact with. I think this catfishing stuff is Florida trying to save face because they didn't want to accept his commitment.
Whaaaat????
If that's true... that's heinous.
#sources?
Brad Lawing and Houshun Gaines. Together. In the same stadium.
It's time to send in the professionals
FNL or Friday Night Lights was back in late July. He certainly had contact with UF coaches and they have some interest in him, but that photo isn't evidence of communication between Lawing & Gaines in September.
yep - I saw krak_t's request for sources. googled. found the tweet of the "photo" part of the claim ... copy link. paste in reply. done. I have no personal knowledge about what's happened and I don't make any claims to know what has happened.
Appreciate the effort, AOE86. Gave you a leg for it. I'm more interested in knowing what the offer letter said -- if it indicated it was a committable offer, or was in any way overselling Florida's interest.
My base assumption on all this is that it is what Gaines says it was -- someone on Twitter jerking him around.
If there's evidence that Fla. actually made a commitable offer, and they are now slow-playing him, I'd love for any evidence of that to get some sunshine.
This had been a big problem with the SEC years back. I was hoping it was over, not for the sake of the SEC, but for the kids.
Here's Houshun's Florida "offer" letter (from Twitter):
Compare the language in point #1 to this letter to a committed Florida recruit:
"We are pleased to provide a scholarship" vs. "We cannot guarantee a scholarship"
Oy. That's some really touchy legal language right there. Jeez.
"Until you verbally commit to us, and provided there is still space, we cannot guarantee a scholarship..."
There's a lot of different ways that sentence could be interpreted legally. Not that I think Houshun will or should lawyer up, but that's really an awful way to articulate a soft offer. That could be conveyed to mean "if you verbal, and we have space on the roster, we'll give you a scholly; we just aren't holding a spot open for you to wait and decide." And I wonder if that's not the way Houshun interpreted it. Obviously UF was saying something else, but this letter certainly didn't help matters and probably contributed to the young man's willingness to believe what he was being told by an unscrupulous person.
Thank you HVHokie. That's exactly what I wanted to see. TL for digging it up.
Agreed IH. These are high school kids. There is no way that offer doesn't look like a straight up committable offer.
"Provided there is space".
I would guess "space" is understood by the average High Schooler as "scholarships left to give".
I'm guessing UF has all sorts of definitions for it they would argue for. "Space at their position" being the easiest.
So. To shed more light on this we'd need to know:
How many players at Gaines' position has UF signed already? If they never take Gaines, do they sign someone at his position later?
This just stinks. This is one kind of slimy recruiting that I had thought the SEC was getting past. I guess in UF's case, that simply isn't so.
This is Shady as hell, and the NCAA needs to get on top of this kind of thing now.
They won't, but they need to.
For real. Shameful how misleading the letter is. I tracked down the other one because I saw the first letter on Houshun's twitter and I couldn't even parse the language.
This is a BRUTAL way for Florida to treat a prospect. Assuming the letter actually did come from Florida, and not some random catfisherman, this is terrible.
Does anyone know what we do in the same case? How do we handle a guy when we tell them that we'd like him to come as, say, a preferred walk-on?
Pure slime. this is why I love social media though. Can put this kid of shit straight out to the masses. Does anyone have copies of VT letters for comparison though? Want to know just how big of a stone I can throw, metaphorically of course, unless I happen to see Musty in person.
I know this is a little irrelevant to the discussion, but that's a good/professional looking offer letter.
What does a Virginia Tech offer letter look like these days? Wasn't there some joking on the font we were using - I can't remember now. I hope we highlight our conference championships on ours as well - I'm sure that wouldn't hurt with recruits.
They used to be in Comic Sans, with a large Hokie Bird as a sort of watermark behind the text. Not a great look. This is Tim Settle's offer letter that he posted on Twitter. I'm looking for a higher res example to more clearly read the text.
EDIT: Found the thread where we compared the new letters to the old ones. You can also more clearly read the text of the letter in Duwayne Johnson's letter (to respond to the other comment that wanted to know our verbiage):
http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2014/august/7/vt-sends-out-scholoarshi...
Yah - Those look pretty good. Just needs more maroon :-)
These comparisons SCREAM the "committable" versus "non-committable" offers.
Is that sarcasm?
Just in case there is confusion, the Florida letters are distinctly different circumstances.
The first is to a player that has not committed yet, and has weasel words about "space" that allows UF to deny a scholarship on pretty tenuous grounds.
The second is to a player that has verbally committed, and is UF accepting that commit and committing itself to providing a scholarship regardless of "space" on the roster. So I would assume assume the player in the 2nd example had previously received the letter in the first example.
My guess is that unless it is a top-shelf recruit that is getting the hard sell, the first letter is what every recruit gets.
The problem is both are dated August 1, 2014, which is the first date that any written offer can be made, to anybody. So no, the second player cannot have previously received the "preliminary" letter, unless UF is violating NCAA rules. I really think that the NCAA needs to crack down here - either there is an offer or there is not. Verbal commits are not official and technically there is no offer before the letter comes. Of course that's not reality, but that's how things work.
I hadn't noticed the date. Good catch.
That said, just because it is the first date a written offer can be made doesn't mean it's the earliest point a recruit can verbally commit, is it?
So that could still account for the difference in verbiage. And I would imagine the rest of what I said applies to any letters sent to uncommitted players.
It's obviously a form letter.
Right, a verbal commit can be made at any time, but the letter of the law (so to speak) is that there is no offer until the letter arrives on Aug. 1. Of course, like I said, that's not how it really works in the world, because we're seeing kids that are freshmen in high school that are getting "offers" at some point.
That's also why I think it is unfair to have two classes of letters. More schools should be like VT. The wording in Frank's letter is clear (we obviously have good staff to write everything so clearly) - you have been offered a scholarship. Period. Done. Not "you have a scholarship if you commit to us and if we have space." No, it's clear. It's an offer. Obviously it's true that we (like everyone) have a limited number of scholarships, but that's why the coaches judiciously send these offers out. I feel like some schools probably do a lot more fishing because they feel they can make these "committable" vs. "non-committable" offers.
So yes, UF is probably sending out two different types of letters. I think that is wrong for reasons I've stated up-thread. The schools hold the power, and then they can back out of an acceptance if they don't really want it because they can use weasel words.
Exactly what I was referring to. I'm wondering if the claim of being "catfished" is just an excuse used to explain the miscommunication in the type of offer..
I agree. Like I said, I thought this was a form of SEC sliminess that had been addressed already, but apparently that's not the case.
If only there existed some sort of independent governing body that could levy punishments on institutions that break the rules.
You're looking at the VT letter for a high 4 star prospect. Do we know there isn't a letter with slightly different language for more marginal prospect?
That's what I'm thinking. I'm not gonna damn Florida, or any other program for that matter, until we can get a handle on our own offer letter legalese.
Look at the TKP thread I linked. The old letter has the same wording (not identical, but only a few words are different) for both Billy Ray Mitchell, who I believe was a 3*, and for Duwayne Johnson and Tim Settle. An image of the same letter to Tyrell Smith (a 3* with a 24/7 composite score comparable to Houshun Gaines') is also online and easily found with Google. The wording is the same. I would say, though the sample size is small, that VT uses the same letter for all its recruits.
Whoa there, Moderator!
I'll take Mode Rators for 600, Alex.
And I'm not afraid to rate your modes.
As Joe mentioned in another thread, I have super-downvote power (-10 instead of -1) in case of anyone getting really out of line. I hope to use it as sparingly as I have used downvotes in the past, if not less so. I'll try to nudge people in the right direction in terms of proper etiquette using comments to "flash my badge."
Do...do you have super UPvote power too?
Also, I hope you keep your badge in your pants. I prefer my Wang package on the field.
Alas, no. I cannot auto-green. I can only auto-blur.
So you can't downvote by 1 anymore?
Correct. I will save my downvotes for anything that (as I see it) needs a real reprimand. Anything else will be my usual level of interaction via comment. No one should see my actions as absolute need to follow suit; people are still free to vote as they see fit, but hopefully whatever I do will be a guideline for how the community should self-regulate and observe the Community Guidelines.
For the given sample size, it looks like we don't have to eat crow, and it wouldn't surprise me if FB's offers have historically been unconditional. I wonder if that has changed recently or will change along with our expanded recruiting efforts modeled after larger (SEC in particular) programs, i.e., Ole' Miss.
I just don't wanna jump on the catfishing, crow-eating bandwagon just yet, lol.
Congrats on the Mod badge, btw. May I never draw your ire!
Yeah, but just because they are 3*, those guys are not what I would call "marginal" re: VT. They are all guys that the VT coaching staff has wanted and almost certainly would get "commitable" offers if, in fact, VT does such a thing.
Given the new blood on the coaching staff who are more acclimated to the new recruiting game, I'll bet that somehow, someway VT has non-commitable offers too. There are too many guys out there with VT "offers" for VT not to do this.
I guess we can't really know either way, not unless we get to see the letters sent to unheralded guys, people like 2* Luther Maddy or late-comers like Kalvin Cline. Given what I've read in Frank's book about the recruiting process, and everything we know about him, I just really have a hard time believing that he would ever put his name to a letter that says, "I've got an offer for you, but only if I have a way out of it if someone better comes along." That just seems to go against everything he stands for.
Maybe they have such a letter, but they make it clear to a recruit what it means rather than playing a shell game. Kinda like when they tell some kids that they have an offer, but it's likely a grey shirt offer. I can't imagine that there isn't different language for that type of offer.
What we don't know about the UF letter is whether or not Florida made it clear what it meant and Gaines only heard what he wanted to hear OR whether they played that shell game with him.
Are you saying he got the second shell or the third?
Are those my only options?
Looks to me like he got the blue shell.
I know this has been explained before and it's something that I really SHOULD know but, for the benefit of a dumb liberal arts major, what exactly is a grey shirt?
Basically, the player delays his enrollment for a year to go to a junior college, like some of our guys go to FUMA before ending up at VT. Gives them an extra year to stay in shape, play sports, take some classes to stay eligible (or improve academics to qualify) while not losing a year of NCAA eligibility. Coaches will often do this when numbers are tight, promising the kid a scholarship for the following year if he preps.
I'm pretty sure that with gray shirt scenarios at VT, the recruit simply pays his own way and enrolls at VT until his scholarship comes to fruition. I can't think of any that went to JUCO.
The reason it is seen as a smart play is that the player gets a jump on classes, delays the "5 year clock", and has access to many of the benefits available to full scholarship guys (weight training).
The only downsides are that the player has to pay tuition (usually just one semester) and has to rationalize that he may not "seen" as a "top recruit" that didn't have to make the gray shirt move (status/feelings/ego stuff)
But for many... say, for example, a big OL that may be 6'6"/300 but not yet particularly strong either in the weightroom or the classroom (or both) it is a great way to catch up a bit, ease into college, etc. without burning any eligibility at all.
Some guys are just perfect gray shirt candidates and VT has employed that option beautifully for the mutual benefit of the player and VT.
No sarcasm at all. VTGuitarMan sort-of made my point, but the language between the two, in my opinion, shows the difference between the types of offers. One kid had an offer he could commit on (whether he did or didn't actually commit before the letter) and the other wasn't "committable".
Schools all over the place are doing this, notably Saban and Alabama, and I think the NCAA needs to somehow control it. There's partial fault on the kid and his coach/AD for not confirming and not communicating enough with proper coaches, and all the blame shouldn't be on UF.
He thought he was communicating with the proper people at UFL.
I find fault here because the letter does not describe HOW to contact the proper people.
There's a phone number at the top in small letters but there are 2 large font www type addresses.
Thanks for posting this, I'm still terrible at posting pictures.
I think the point being that I would assume that Gaines contacted Lawing prior to making his announcement and that Lawing confirmed he still had a commitable offer. So Gaines goes through with the press conference. I think the mix up is that Lawing confirmed the offer without talking to Muschamp, or the recruiting coordinator, or other coaches, etc. I think that's where the "confusion" came from, and not Gaines talking to some guy on twitter he thought was Lawing. The catfishing story is really a red herring story because it's not like he didn't have all of Lawing's contact information.
"Please contact myself...."
*facepalm*
I see the wording meaning that there is no guarantee that this scholarship offer will be available later down the road. It will be honored if you verbally commit and we still have unaccounted for scholarships VS the 2nd letter saying if you want to commit to us, we will handle the numbers on our end.
If it means as I think it means, then I don't necessarily think it is a slimey move. They obviously send out more offer letters than they have scholarships so they cannot honor every offer. They probably more out like Gaines' than they do Tyler's. There are probably players that are higher rated at a position of need that if they want to come there on signing day, they will make it work while they have players that would be a good get but if the space isn't available, it just ain't available...
If we had our class full and then Sweat decides he wants to come to VT, are the coaches going to tell him no? Or if Hand did that last year? This is all under the assumption of how I interpreted the letter.
I thought it was a non-committable offer? Which would make sense.. Kid thinks he has an offer to commit to, does, then the school backs off because it wasn't really committable. I bet that's the "miscommunication" in it all.
I mean... what part of this offer seems non-committable? The very first line clearly states:
The very first line of the letter states you have an offer for a full athletic scholarship! The next logical step for anyone accepting an offer (including a job offer) is to determine what the next step is to accept the offer. The following guidance is given for that:
The precise directions stated in the letter if you want to accept the scholarship offer is to first VERBALLY COMMIT. Isn't that exactly what Gaines did? Admittedly the language is wishy washy, but it would be extremely easy to provide directions to the student if the offer is non-committable. "We have a limited number of scholarships. This offer is contingent upon a conversation with UF's head coach to confirm that we can guarantee a scholarship for you to attend the University of Florida, at which time we would be able to accept your verbal commitment."
IMO,
means that its a non-committable offer. Its the same tactic being played by schools across the country.
While I understand that it's intentionally vague language, I can't possibly agree with that interpretation based on what the letter says. It clearly states, "You have an offer. Until you verbally commit, we cannot guarantee a scholarship due to limited space." The very first step Florida gives the recipient for accepting the offer is to verbally commit! What part of them saying "you have to verbally commit" infers that one shouldn't commit?
Oh yeah, UF has zero commitments from DEs and only 1 DT commit, so the whole "provided there is still space" is also a blatant lie. As I said, I fully understand that UF carefully chose their words so that it's not entirely clear and potentially "non-committable," but it's also blatantly deceiving.
Basically UF is waiting on commitments by two top5 DE's. If they go to UF, no spot for Gaines.
And this is exactly what needs to change.
If universities are going to be playing these games with recruits, they need to spell it out clearly.
"We'll take you if our x number of higher valued recruits fall through."
If they don't want to spell it out that clearly, the NCAA should make them offer grayshirts, or preferred walk-on, on any offers that aren't immediately commitable.
Implying heavily to a kid he's got a scholarship if he commits, then weaseling out of it when he commits before you are ready is pretty low in my book.
And yes, those words on the offer can be interpreted with wiggle room, and I'm sure UNC paid lawyers very well for the composition, but for the average HS student, that looks the world to be a legit commitable offer.
Fair enough, but remember that this presumably happened not because UF (not UNC, btw) misled the kid, but because somebody posing as UF misled the kid.
For all we know, UF was entirely straightforward with the young man and the letter simply reiterated what he had been told. In fact, I wouldn't be shocked if this were the case...otherwise wouldn't there be a lot more of these misunderstandings over legalese occurring?
I understand that and what UF is doing, but I still believe the letter Gaines received is blatantly deceiving and doesn't come close to conveying that point.
Mmm..I could go for some catfish right now. I don't trust any saltwater entrees served this far in the hills though.
EDIT: Catfish are freshwater though right? I only ever ate the ones I'd catch as a kid near Hampton Roads on the James River, so I assume they breed in freshwater or something. Ichthyophiles help me out.
There are fresh and brackish varieties.
Brackish water catfish here in Florida include Bullhead catfish (Yuuuch, don't eat them) and extremely slimey Topsail catfish (we call them "sailcats" - you can easily see why they are clled this). The Topsail catfish is supposed to be edible, but when I catch them (I never target catfish - I'm after reds, snook, pompano and flounder) they slime the line so badly, I just can't possibly consider eating them. Yuuuch!
Freshwater catfish is an entirely different subject.
Yet another reason to get rid of 'commitments.'
Schools should give students written scholarship offers any time between December and National Signing Day. The student can sign the scholarship offer any time he wants, whether it's the day he gets the offer or last hour of NSD. If the student accepts, the school is required to honor that scholarship (unless the student waits too long and all scholarship positions are filled, or there are legal/academic issues or coaching changes).
Catfish...they'll get after ya.
I think this example shows just how much of a "cat and mouse show" recruiting really is. Schools rely on kids to hold to true to their commitments and kids rely on schools to have available scholarships and keep promises. Unfortunately trust is often broken and in the end things like this happens. Hopefully, Gaines has enough level headed individuals in his corner and he can make a smart decision on where he would like to spend the next four years of his life. Best of luck to him!
Any news going around about Sweat and when he is coming to Blacksburg for his official visit? I hope he commits sooner, rather than later so he can have a positive influence on bringing other recruits in or gives us enough time to pursue other options.
Word is he plans to commit early so that he can enroll early. Should be in the next two months or so...
Here is a bit of information on Josh:
http://virginiatech.247sports.com/Bolt/Sweat-Has-Successful-Surgery-is-E...
This was the first I had heard of what caused the injury. Must have been one of those freak plays that happens. I hope he recovers quickly.
Any word on what the actual injury was yet? If it was surgery and a knee, I am guessing ACL or PCL?
So is he still trying to go to Florida or what?
Ugh, some people have too much time on their hands. I wish they could give some to me. I'm sure I'd make better use of it by not being a dick and catfishing people.
Things are getting really interesting now. Apparently Gaines produced a scholarship offer that was "signed" by Muschamp.
Full article
That was shown here and led to a long string of comments regarding each person's opinion of a conditional offer and all other somewhat questionable recruiting nonsense.
**
IMO i look at this as UF doesn't want to waste a spot on the scholarship roster soo early on a borderline 3* player. I know its sad but UF needs all the help it can get and 3*'s won't put out that dumpster fire they have going on in gainsville.
However if they have the spot open after national signing day they will accept him. he is like the 1st loser
Just got off the phone with Gaines' coach. He downplayed the whole cat fishing thing, and put the bulk of this confusion on Florida "not having a spot open" for him when he committed. Sounds like they just kind of screwed the guy. I'll have a full post later.
So long story short, is he going to UF or open for recruitment?
Gaines has re-opened his recruitment.
http://www.highschoolot.com/florida-offered-gaines-not-alleged-fake-coac...
Wow, Gaines really sounds like a high character type kid. Makes me wish he would flip to VT all the more.