Virginia Tech fell flat on its face in front of a mostly empty stage. Tech could have solidified its Coastal Division position, and showed Hokie Nation the program was sprinting towards a strong finish in Charlotte. Instead, like we've seen so many times these last few years, the offense didn't have an identity, and the defense did enough to win, but not enough to account for the lack of a ground game (49 positive yards on 22 carries, 26 net yards). Pre-snap penalties nullified most early offensive momentum, and despite a pulse on offense, Tech couldn't climb out of its hole late in the fourth quarter.
Virginia Tech was without its top three tailbacks, Luther Maddy, Kalvin Cline and Brandy Facyson and almost won a night game on the road. A great team would have overcome those circumstances and won a divisional game whose outcome was balancing fans' expectations between a trip to Charlotte and just beating Virginia and making a bowl.
With Thursday's loss, #VaTech is just 11-11 against Power 5 teams since the start of 2012.— David Hale (@DavidHaleESPN) October 17, 2014
That's the 15th game decided by 1 score in the last 3 seasons for #VaTech most in the #ACC. Hokies are 7-8 in those games.— David Hale (@DavidHaleESPN) October 17, 2014
Rebuilding doesn't happen overnight. The cupboard, mostly on offense, was bare, and to its credit Beamer Co. signed some very talented players in the last two classes. (If my math is right, freshman have scored 16 of Tech's 20 offensive touchdowns this season.) It's obvious Tech isn't there yet. We've seen flashes of greatness (Ohio State), but more than enough bumbling around (ECU, GT, first half of WMU and Pitt) to see it's a work in progress. The acceptable time to rebuild (i.e. "overnight") is going to vary from person to person, but next week's home crowd will gage overall fan support and confidence of the program moving forward pretty well.
I have a few specific thoughts on the game before I re-watch.
I suggested a quarterback change, so I will defend that.
I'M NOT ONE FOR A QB CHANGE, BUT I THINK YOU HAVE TO BENCH BREWER IF YOU WANT A CHANCE TO WIN THIS GAME.— THE KEY PLAY (@thekeyplay) October 17, 2014
That was right before Tech got the ball back thanks to Corey Fuller's Marshall's interception. Brewer performed at a Tyrod-like level against Ohio State, but in the process, "Got his dick knocked in the dirt," in the words of Cincinnati offensive coordinator Eddie Gran.
I don't know if he's injured, but since then Brewer's played somewhere between erratic and mildly effective. He over threw a pair of wide-open verticals and was content to dink and dunk in the first half. I felt like Teddy KGB was behind center, "Check. Check. Check." What happened to the third-down-converting-machine who was fully dipped in the 'Shoe? I didn't feel confident in him rallying the offense in the second half, and believed the team needed a spark. All summer long the offensive coaches told anyone who would listen the quarterback competition was as close as it could possibly be. With all that considered, I would've given Leal a chance. To his credit, Brewer came out and played much better in the second half, and as I mentioned above, he didn't have a run game to lean on.
J.C. Coleman got 3 carries, fumbled on his third rush and never touched the ball again. Even if Juice can't go against Miami, I wonder if Coleman factors into the rotation.
There were a ton third- and fourth-down pass plays called with routes that landed well shy of the sticks. I get that when backed up against the goal and Loeffler's making room to punt, otherwise I'm baffled. Somewhat related, there were a couple of times when Brewer did a great job buying time in the pocket, had green in front of him, but opted for a low percentage throw on the run. Again, I don't know if he's 100%, but there were opportunities to pull it down and run for a first down.
Bucky Hodges is playing his way onto All-American teams.
If he's going to run the Wild Turkey, he's going to have to show pass out of it. Better yet, in the red zone throw him fade routes for days, not snap him the ball.
bucky hodges is one of the best offensive tight ends in football right now and he still doesn't even really know how to play tight end yet— martin rickman (@martinrickman) October 17, 2014
Martin nailed it.
Hate to see Chase Williams, a fifth-year senior who finally got his opportunity and has made the most of it, get injured. Hopefully he's ready to go against Miami next week.
James Conner did exactly what French said he'd do against a loaded box that Tech didn't have all the gaps fitted. He got to the second level and rumbled right on through.
Corey Marshall had another stellar game. He's had such a great season that it's no longer a no-brainer to say Kendall's the best player on the defense.
"You never know what's going to happen," Brewer said following the game. "This conference, especially on our side, is shaken up so much already. You really have no idea what's going to happen. If we keep our heads down and keep moving forward, I think we'll be OK."
The Hokies got a second chance when Duke upset Georgia Tech. However, with its second divisional loss, Virginia Tech cannot squander anymore good will.
Comments
Just finished the game on the DVR after getting off work and boy was that was a tough one to watch. You can only do so much on the ground when the top 3 running backs go down in back to back weeks and yes the play calling and adjustments from Lefty could and should have been better. I for one am not hitting the panic button and bailing on this team I will be back next Thursday to cheer on our Hokies.
I was out getting dinner and watched the first half, and those were exactly my thoughts. The lack of a running game is understandable when the top 3 backs are out, but for the life of me I could not understand what the O-line was doing.
As Joe said on Twitter last night, with so many false start/illegal formation penalties, that's on the coaches 7 games in. I get the feeling that Lefty is trying to be too cute and it's hurting his guys more than it's helping. That's just my two cents though (from someone who never played football), so take it with a mountain of salt.
While I agree that losing your top 3 backs is hard, I saw gains out the I and off tackle running plays but, our beloved offensive coordinator felt compeled to run sweeps or play fakes while never forcing Pitt to leave home. To play fake you must have some bait on the line and we never placed any on the hook. Your chances of catching a fish with no worm are slim. we need to hand it off early and continuously and we did not. We got behind the chains and the momentum was set for most of the night.
They've known for over a week they'd be without their top backs and looked like they hadn't planned at all. The Pitt defense isn't that good.
Yeah that's exactly what I'm saying. It wasn't that we didn't have the backs. its how horribly Lefty put them in terrible positions to be successful or didn't trust them to make a play. they had some successful runs off-tackle and straight. but he kept running stretch plays with them or they weren't fed or were being faked to without any success yet.
We did not have plays off tackle or out of the I. We did not have success doing that whatsoever. We only had two rushes for more than 5 yars the entire game. Hodges had a 9-yarder near the goal line, and Caleb had a 6-yarder. That was it. That does not constitute having good looks or production that wasn't further exploited. Having 4th & 5th options as the source of your running game does indeed make a difference. It makes a huge difference. We had zero running game last night. There was nothing to establish. Pitt's rushing defense is elite.
Sam Rodgers has runs of 8 and 9 in the third.
But yes, the running game was terrible to watch. Pitt knew they could stop our running game with 4 (sometimes even 3) rushers and they were able to drop the rest back into coverage, making it very tough for Brewer to find an open man. One of the worst plays of the night, in my opinion, was when Brewer got sacked before he even finished is drop back with a three man rush! On that play we had 6 blockers!
We were down 3 running back and the final score was only 21-16
We were down 3 running back and we were playing a top rushing defense
We were down 3 running back and we ran the wild turkey play only once?
We were down 3 running back and had how many 3 and outs to start the game?
We were down 3 running back and Pitt played us as an average Saturday for them.
We were down 3 running back and had a bye week to change the game plan, to create different plays.
We were down 3 running back and is not an excuse for poor play or losing
Now I'm not French, but it didn't really look like the RBs who were playing had much room to operate...I'm not convinced that if Shai or Marshawn had played the result would have been much different. I think the O-line is just too inexperienced at this time. With 2 different coaches in as many years, not to mention poor recruiting at the position for nearly a decade, we're going to see lots of growing pains with that group. I think it takes more time to rebuild an offensive line than just about any other position group on the field. IMO we're undersized and too young and inexperienced up front to really impose our will on opposing defenses. I am going to give the coaches a year or two longer to build up the O-line before I really get worried about where this offense is going. I really think if we had a big, experienced line our offense would be a lot more successful.
The sad part is we have three seniors on your "too inexperienced" line.
Noone has been in this offense for more than 2 years and noone has been under this OLine coach for 1.
Hodges catch was beyond the pale, fantastic, NFL catch.
Problem is Brewer was very inaccurate for some reason at Pitt. Uncharacteristically inaccurate.
I think something was going on, either his confidence was not there or something with the way he was seeing movement.
The only receptions were ones where the receivers were doing heroic grabs.
Brewer was very off last night, to the point that I thought he may have been injured. There were many passes that he should have hit and was wild with the ball.
Brewer played like a slower, smaller LT last night. That's what I felt like I was watching. Senior season LT when he wasn't trucking guys every other play.
Does anybody think we'll figure out any reasons the pass plays went well short of the first down such as Loeffler's play calling or Brewer just trying not to throw picks? Not entirely sure how confident he is right now in his ability to avoid picks or to make a down field throw, but maybe because he didn't throw a pick tonight he'll come out more confident next week and hit his receivers more consistently...at least one can hope
On the passing short of the sticks, the announcers said at one point that Pitt had everything deeper blanketed & was only giving up the short stuff. I'm not one to re-watch film & play hindsight coach so I don't know, but instead of it being completely Brewer or Loeffler's fault, it could be partial credit to Pitt's defense. It could also be the receivers running their routes too short, and Brewer having to take 7/8ths of what he needed just to close the gap. I saw many, many times the receivers were either crossing or curling 3 yds short of the sticks. That's not the QB's fault.
Definitely weird the number of routes short of the sticks. I know in the NFL they will throw it short and have the receiver try to get the extra yards...crossing routes, slants, screens, etc... but sideline routes and comeback routes short of the sticks where that isn't going to happen make no sense to me. Brewer did throw a WTF pick in the end zone that was nullified by the late hit and I don't think either helped his confidence any. He also airmailed the freebee to Phillips who almost made a great catch. Until the TD drive he didn't show any confidence at all. Don't know if Lefty has been on him or he hasn't put those int's behind him, but he seems pretty gun shy right now. Finally, those uber deep drops are part of the reason he's getting sacked, particularly the one at the end of the game where you just can't have a sack under any circumstance . The blocker needs some kind of angle to defend.
The announcers kept mentioning this over and over again and if that's all that was there then I'm OK with Brewer throwing to them. BUT at some point the underneath receiver has to know to push his route another 3 or 4 yards down field to at least pick up a first down instead of leaving us with 4 and short.
A check down receiver choosing to push his route 4 yards downfield (which in most cases, effectively doubles the length of the route) on his own is a recipe for interceptions from miscommunication and timing errors. If the ball goes to a check down, it's up to that receiver to make a play in space and pick up the yac.
I think Brewer was checking down. I don't think the play call was to always go to the short receiver in those circumstances, but Pitt had all our vertical receiving threats locked down all night. Any time the camera showed downfield during a play I tried to find the open target, and I never could. I think there was maybe one play where Brewer missed a receiver coming open down the sideline, but he was on the run when he missed it, which if not excusable is at least understandable.
I said a couple weeks back I thought moving forward, Loeffler should always make sure Brewer has a check down to throw to as he develops as a passer. It looks like coach is in agreement, and the check downs were really the only thing there for Brewer last night.
Look at it this way. Without those check downs short of the marker, a lot of those short gains could likely have been sacks.
The announcers stated that during the game last night, but very few on here want to acknowledge it. Pitt's defense is a very good one, and they contained our deep attempts by & large. That doesn't excuse a lot of what occurred, but they were a major factor. We've got folks on here ranting because we didn't 'establish our will' in the running game when we had 4th & 5th options at RB going against the 4th best rushing defense in the nation. Face it, Pitt had something to do with why we didn't pass or rush as well as needed last night. Not everything, but something.
We were one dimensional due to injury, and Pitt sold out to take away that dimension. They kept everything in front of them and forced Brewer to dink and dunk his way down the girls. A healthy Shai/Marshawn/Edmunds pick-two would have made last night look a little different, ESPECIALLY Juice, who is custom built to bust holes in a front like Pitt's. But alas, it was not to be.
I hope Brewer isn't dinking and dunking down the girls.
Autocorrect strikes again.
Eff if. I'm leaving it.
At least not without their consent.
When you say Pitt's defense is "very good", do you mean the same defense that allowed more points than we scored last night to powerhouse offensive teams such as BC, FIU, Iowa, Akron, and UVA? While I don't think Pitt has a poor defense, that schedule has something to do with their defensive statistics.
Akron rushed for 169 yards. We only managed 26. Even without our top 3 backs, our talent level should be high enough to average more than 1.2 yards per carry. That's beyond pathetic.
Rushing yards against Pitt:
Delaware 26
Boston College 142
Florida Intl 57
Iowa 133
Akron 169
UVA 225
VT 26
What makes this so frustrating is that the offense with show flashes of the talent we know is there, then turn around and have three dumb penalties in a row.
I'm baffled by the passing routes that were short of the first down. Where they designed that way or is it just the inexperienced players not knowing where the sticks are?
Going into this game I thought I would finally get to see what Caleb is all about. I still have no idea. I feel like he barely got the ball.
One last random thought. Why does our O-line play scared? I'm willing to bet that in a dark alley all of them would be afriad of me.
This right here.
How many times this season have we been rolling on offense, get a big time play, and then get two procedural penalties in a row, or a major holding call, and just KILL the momentum. After the Hodges lay out pass, I thought for sure we were getting back in the game. Then, false start, illegal shift, and all of a sudden we're 20 yards to go for a first down again.
If this offense could stop shooting itself in the foot, time and again, there might be something there. Pitt defense did exactly what they needed to do because they knew our running game is shot. Put a bit of pressure on Brewer, and cut out everything beyond 10 yards.
We had 7 yards in the first quarter....SEVEN! Ridiculous.
Also, the falter of the week was the dropskies.
Exactly. Any momentum we get is usually killed by a penalty OR a stupid trick play when Loeffler is trying to be cute. Like the drive at the end of the 3rd quarter and the start of the 4th quarter, we had a nice drive going and had finally moved into Pitt territory. A second and 10 where Rodgers gets sacked on a reverse pass turns into a 3rd and 15. I think we ended up not converting on 4th on that drive but I mean....really Loeffler?
Who is Rodgers? Is that a new player?
...really bro?
there's no D in Rogers
Rogers vs. Rodgers was really the only thing that was taken out of the original comment? Interesting...
you made a great point actually. we tend to get caught on inside jokes around here. this one has been around since last season. we stopped posting the meme images though, if it makes you feel any better.
leg for your original comment though
I see you're relatively new here Oki, so I'm going to assume that you've missed the numerous memes created for when someone misspells Sam Rogers name. It's nothing personal, just a running joke. Just pray that Sam doesn't find out.
darn it Hokie_x3_Hi, I just said we stopped using the memes and here you go roping me back in:
Haha well...this makes a lot more sense now. I was under the "I'm new and no one like me" impression. Spelling #45's name wrong will not happen again. Thanks for clearing that up!
Nah, I was just teasing about spelling the name wrong.
I admire your courage. I'm pretty sure in a dark alley they would each turn me into meatloaf in a matter of seconds.
Just rush them. I'm sure you would escape.
I guarantee their first step would be back. Then they would look at each other while you ran right past them, assuming the other one would get you.
It's about time that we all take our rose colored glasses off and stop drinking the kool-aid. That was the worst offense performance I have seen in probably a decade. 1 first down in the 1st half. I believe it was 7 consecutive 3 and outs. There has been no improvement at the OC position, maybe even a slide back. Offensive line can't block consistant, can't even line up correctly. 1st and goal from the 3 yard line to end up kicking a 31 yard field goal. This is not progress or rebiulding. This is ineptitude from the entire offensive coaching staff.
A change needs to come and it needs to happen fast, otherwise our fan base will look as pitiful as the Pitt fan base.
Until our defense can average scoring 17 points a game, VT will continue this downward path.
You think that was our worst performance in a decade on offense? I feel I have witnessed worse
Just the 1st half. 7 yards 1 1st down. I don't seem to remember any worse than that.
Games against LSU, BC, and Clemson cone to mind.
All good opponents that didn't lose to Akron
That 2006 BC team lost to a 3-9 NC State.
That 2007 LSU team lost to Arkansas and Kentucky.
That 2011 Clemson team just got scored on again by West Virginia.
Meanwhile, Akron is so overjoyed by the return of LeBron James to Ohio that they're gonna mess around and go bowling this year before it's over with.
Totally agree .. when will they stop sugar coating this trash of "we gotta execute better" and "now on to the next game". I am okay with saying that stuff if the team is demonstrably improving. We are going BACKWARDS and that is a coaching problem.
Improvement is not linear week to week. I think our offense looks better this year than last. I hope the trend continues in that direction.
I can deal with the RB injuries. I can even deal with Brewer having a terrible game. What I can't deal with is the penalties, what they are doing is embarrassing. Why can't this be fixed?
In my opinion, the biggest reason its hard to fix it is that there is such a lack of depth on the line that the coaches cant yank the guy making the mistake off the field and get in his ear about it immediately, and they especially cant afford to make these guys sit out a drive or two to really make it sink in. I also think that Brewer constantly chirping at the line before snapping it is a big factor. We seem to do well when we go with the no huddle, line up with the set play called and snap the ball. It doesnt give the players time to think or time to slip up. Its just go, go, go.
I agree with the thought that the no huddle seems to be our best bet but if that is the case why has not coaching figured that out?
Agreed. Thinking is not a strong point for this year's team. I hope it is just youth and Brewer being new to the program. The no huddle really demos the great talent that these guys have. The needs to be more. Say the entire 1st quarter.
IMO, the depth issue is a symptom. Of course it's nice to have a backup you can put in for a series or two. However, you play how you practice. The sloppy play we're seeing on gamedays is clearly a reflection of what's going on at practice. The fact that it isn't being corrected there is the root of the problem.
It also seems like the pre-snap "fake count" then turn and look to the sideline is useless! As well as all the pre-snap motion! Call a play, line up, and run it!
I was thinking this too. In the hurry up, seemed the penalties were minimized.
Watching the hurry up also made me wonder if Lefty is trying to be too good of an OC and if really he just needs to simplify things.
Brewer didn't have a terrible game.
Correct, he had a terrible first half.
He woke up at the last drive of the 2nd quarter but his delay of game and the subsequent false start just destroyed the momentum. Punch it in to end the first half and it's a totally different ballgame. Still, thought he did a good job taking what was there on a night when there wasn't much there.
When you have a QBR of 29.8 on the night, you had a bad game regardless of being 65% passing for 211 yards and a touchdown in the second half.
QBR leans heavily on YPA and YPC, right?
In what world did Brewer have a good game? Seriously. What were the good things he did?
Positives:
Didn't throw any picks.
Only threw two terrible passes into coverage (one nullified by a penalty on the defense, and one at the end of the game)
Put together a good drive late in the game, with (mostly) accurate passes.
Negatives:
Inaccurate the majority of the night. WR's and TE's had to make a lot of epic, acrobatic catches.
Declined to scramble for easy yards on several occasions in favor of chucking the ball toward tightly covered receivers.
Didn't set his feet (see accuracy issues) on a lot of roll-outs and scrambles.
Brewer was a game manager. He didn't force anything (except once that got negated by a roughing the passer) and took what was there. Threw it away to avoid sacks. Had a high completion percentage. He didn't lose the game for us, which is what I meant when I said he didn't have a terrible game. Not having a terrible game does not equal having a good game. He did what was expected of him. The blame isn't on his shoulders.
I think it's contagious. Last night I got called for a false start for celebrating what was called a fumble on the field by Conner. I also spiked the remote on the second Conner TD, which was unsportsmanlike of me. I'll be running laps tomorrow morning, 6-ish.
Lets not forget that our D got gashed again by a mobile QB. How many times in the last 2 years has this happened? Way to many IMHO.
Defense only gave up 23 points and 7 of those points came from a short field because of a JC Coleman fumble. Didn't lose because of defense.
D gave up I believe a 53 yard pass play for a TD. D gave up a long run by QB after HFCFB went for it on 4th down which led to another TD. Not saying the D is to blame for the loss. There were some definite breakdowns defensively especially in containing the QB runs. Combined effort both defensively / offensively contributed to the loss.
4.9 yds/carry is not a good night by the D...so I'm not letting them off the hook. Bud has earned the right to have an "off" night. 14 of their points were waaaaay too easy. The D had no chance after the JCC fumble, but the missed tackles were unforgivable (maybe we could've held them to a FG). The 4thQ 3-play drive was laughable. Missed assignments, missed tackles, and mental lapses.
I will give Bud a pass for 2 reasons: 1) they were playing aggressive, sometimes you get burned, 2) the O needed to step up. Too many 3 and outs (no time to rest or adjust).
I said it during the game: 100% team loss, coaches need to step up and take the blame. Make adjustments, light a fire (under themselves and the players ) and put this team in position to win. There is too much talent on this team for the excuses we get. Good coaches game plan and adjust to their strengths, not bemoan their weaknesses.
Give Chryst some credit here. In their off week he installed some read option of Voytik which they haven't run a lot this year. The D was keying in on Conner (as expected) which opened up HUGE holes for him. Most of his yards came off of that and not broken plays as years past.
The announcers said they ran the read option often earlier in the season, but none in the last 3 games, which were all losses.
Missed that part but makes sense....obviously it has some correlation to winning for them.
Yeah, they said Pitt had stopped running it because of concern about getting Voytik injured. Evidently their backup is really inadequate. They must have seen something in Bud's D to make them think they could use it on us.
Yeah they watched how we played against mobile quarterbacks last year and said "Hey, we can do that!"
The thing is, Voytik doesn't even scramble, and that's what usually hurts us.
Most of his yards came on straight runs.
My question is why don't we put in a running threat at QB. Running QB's kill us. Is BM still hurt? He showed he can run the read option and that will make the D account for him as a real running threat. I'm not saying bench MB and as much as I hate rotating QB's it might give us a better chance at winning plus it will give our backup real time experience.
Hi...remember me. My name is Brendon Motley, I'm a dual-threat QB who beat out Leal in the spring. Now they won't let me play.
Seriously, why not let him get some snaps? Pitt destroyed Bud on the QB designed runs. Their D was loading the box crashing down on the run (just like we were)...outside/bootleg was wide open.
I'm all for giving BM a shot to run some plays mixed in with the standard O. The only problem I can see is that to run a truly effective read option, there has to be a reason for the ends to crash on the back. If the opposing D ends just lock down on the QB, then I have very little faith that our RB's could break free up the middle, or that the O-line could give the needed push.
But F it, it's worth a shot at this point.
Can you spell redshirt while we make sure the back injury is completely healed?
He redshirted last year.
Is your name Larry Fedora?
As much as I would like to give Chryst credit....I just can't help but feel that we played awful, made dumb mistakes, and played with no fire or discipline on offense. I put this one on the coaches and our preparation.
Nothing against Chryst...but if we came to play we win this game.
Pitt didn't exactly 'come to play' either. They had some hideous turnovers.
Don't forget about our (Pitt's) ridiculously stupid penalties!
The interception that was taken back for roughing the passer is one that sticks out...
I saw a stat this morning - 4 QBs have had 100 yd rushing games against us in the last ten games. We've lost every time that occurred.
That being said - the offense was the reason we lost. Especially the penalties - 7 for false starts. The most basic concept seems to be a mystery that cannot be taught by our coaching staff. Between false starts & illegal substitutions we are shooting ourselves in the foot whenever we do have a chance to win/score. Both offense & defense this season have stunk at that. This game it was the offense.
Loved how Jesse Palmer screwed up his point about Tech against running QBs: "Yeah ya know Tech has had trouble with running QBs in the past: Ohio State, North Carolina."
Clearly Jesse missed who won both of those games. Moron.
Shut up! He's pretty!!!
/sarcasm
Right right. Surprised no one else has mentioned the Manziel reference on the lone TD. Palmer literally compared Brewer to Manziel. I couldn't help but chuckle at that one. I repeat: moron.
You just hatin cause he didn't give you a rose. That third and California comment was BRILLIANT!!!!
Exactly. Whats even worse is the fact that most of those plays last night were designed QB runs. Usually when our defense gets burned by a semi-mobile or mobile QB its on scrambles.
Even mentioning the defense when talking about this loss is ludicrous. This game should have been a blowout in the first half. I mean the wheels were fully off and rolling down the hill. The mayhem the defense created is the only reason we even had our televisions on in the second half.
This loss sucked. I would panic if it happened with Marshawn, Shai, or Trey running the ball for us. The combination of no running game and a conservative play-calling approach (likely to avoid Brewer errors) made for an uphill climb. At this point, I'm just disappointed in what 2014 is turning out to be.
But, I will be out in full force next Thursday night because I'm not giving up on them. Good, bad, or ugly, they're still our guys.
Great post and fantastic attitude to have moving forward. We don't have to be satisfied with mediocrity, but we should never give up on our players. #hokieon
While I agree with not giving up on the players, I cannot say that not showing up next week is giving up. I say it is a message that if you want someone to PAY to see you, one must show EFFORT to make some one go out of their way to do so. What we saw from the O was quite putrid and I feel product of nonchalance. We can keep up with the "young team, young mistakes" but, the irony is that the freshman aren't making the mistakes for the most part. I don't see an offensive line that wants to focus on minute details much less block. the mistakes being made are the easiest, most basic fundamentals of the game. Not a product of a lack of talent as we are made to believe. Motivation, Energy, Focus, Toughness- things not mentioned when looking at the core of our offense.
So the question becomes is it coaching? Because that is a "light a fire under their ass thing" if you can't do that what can be done. all these O- line penalties not a talent thing.
So I ask the question how do we as fans who are some of the most loyal in the nation get our point across after years of this. I am grateful for CFB and by no means feel as though he is incapable or washed up, but I am tired of the same story. this team is one step from a being great. The problem is its been the same for years. Are WE taken for granted as fans because of how loyal and rabid we have been. i am asking in all honesty as i am getting to the point where my money emotion and time could be placed anywhere else. I was excited about a big atmosphere in Lane next week but now Yikes. Even as i type this I realize just how much I'm still going to support the team but its tiring and trying. I feel the only reason I will go is to scream & shout to show the D and youngsters how much we recognize their effort.
excuse me for using your post to get this long winded rant and bumble off of my chest just opened up a fresh wound from last night.
*RANT OVER*
I understand your frustration. Please don't stop showing up. You don't need to stop showing up to make a point. Keep cheering for your team. Hokies are great fans through the thick and thin. Our team needs us!
Also, what has helped me endure bad games is being a Browns fan my entire life. Trust me, the last few subpar seasons of Hokie football is nothing.
Yeah man thanks for the encouragement. (I have no argument as soon as you dropped the Browns card haha.) Yes it gets discouraging and after I read that and took a breathe of fresh air,I realize just how much I've seen this before. I'm also a Panthers, Wizards, Caps, and Nats fan and I've become used to my squads laying an egg and I still love 'em all through everything; probably more so when we lose like last night. If's funny how there's a certain pride with following teams in their rough spells. You learn just what it is to be a die-hard and I'll be ready to stroll into Lane Thursday night as rabid as ever. Something like:
Pretty sure I saw Dadi make that same move right before he tackled Voytik's face! I almost pulled a hammy jumping out of my chair after that hit. Only 6 more days until we get to kick Miami in the teeth!
Oh yea Dadi has definitely opened my eyes this year. Much more well-rounded than i anticipated. I figured he was gonna struggle in rushing downs but he has showed much toughness and strength in that 230 lb. frame. Imagine him at 244-255 and making that hit. If so I don't think Voytik gets up after that hit.
Also, what has helped me endure bad games is being a Browns fan my entire life.
I feel you. I've been a Skins fan my whole life so watching Tech play is still so much more enjoyable than my NFL experience thus far. NFL I feel is the one sport that really, really sucks when your team is trash. Like if it weren't for the fact I get Redskins games in my area and fantasy football, I probably wouldn't even watch NFL.
Don't blame you for the frustration but I think we all knew that this is what the team would be going into this season. We have an entirely new offense. I mean entirely new, learning how to play together. The Ohio State game was above this teams ceiling. These kids will likely end up being the most talented combined offensive skill position players as a whole in a couple years, but right now they can't even line up correctly. Yes that is on the coaches for trying to do too much, but it was kind of inevitable to an extent.
I will NEVER give up on the Hokies...but that doesn't mean we have to stop being HONESTLY critical of the flaws on this team and the bad coaching that appears to being going on right now. (from a dumb mistake, penalty, and preparation standpoint at least)
Great thoughts by all above:
I agree the penalties are beyond a joke-if I was Frank, I would start giving fines to coaches-(I'm looking at you offensive staff.)
Watching this offense is like looking at my ADD son's grades: 100, 97, 94, 52, 0, 72, 96.....no consistency which is maddening.
I have no problem with benching Brewer and seeing what Leal could do for a series in that game and make a point.....opportunity missed.
We CAN'T run the ball. In addition we CAN'T make plays downfield. No, I have no solutions to this.....just an observation. But if I'm seeing it, opposing D' coordinators are licking their chops. Ok offensive coaches, time to earn your keep.
Once again, I feel sick for our defense-they played lights out except for the one dagger through the heart quick score with the QB run and the Conner ramble-depleted as they are. It's hard to ask them for more.
CFB looked more pissed than I have seen in a while.....good, be pissed Frank and go get some ass-chewing in.
Pitt's D played great, and Pitt's QB took some straight up punishment and delivered-much respect. Conner is just a stud.
Our team is decimated with injuries. Let me repeat: decimated.
All that being said, my son played lights out in his C-team game and my daughter got to be 'line-leader' at school yesterday. I'm in a pretty good mood and I'm still a Hokie.
Wonderful perspective... Hokies will learn from this and get better. Congrats on being a family man. #Hokieon
thanks, i needed that. great thoughts. and my kids are grown...miss those days.
i do think the QB competition needs to be reopened. Brewer surprised OSU and got away with a lot. but there is a book on him now and DCs know how to handle him. even if that isn't the case he is obviously rattled.
very telling, imo, that JCC did not play in the second half other than kickoffs.
I think Frank overruled Shane on that one & insisted Coleman sit. Frank was PO'ed big time with that fumble.
I could be wrong, but is Coleman the only RB to lose a fumble this year?
No, remember the Williams fumble where Brewer did the "scoop and score"?
Doesn't count as a lost fumble though if your team retains possession
If so, it's only because Brewer was Johnny-on-the-spot for Juice's "oh sh!t" moment.
Marshawn has lost a couple as well, but Brewer helped him out with a scoop and score on the one.
I Feel bad for him though. He was going down and, while it is never ok for an RB to fumble, the defender grabbing his facemask made for an awkward position. I feel that allowed for the strip to occur as he was unable to fall and was in a compromising position. Tough luck there, unfortunately.
One thing I saw, even before the facemask and fumble, was that he was fighting for extra yards before they got him.
I understand wanting to do that, but there comes a time where you have to realize that if you're the smallest guy on the field, you're not gonna extend the play for many yards with 800 lbs of humanity holding on to your limbs.
agreed. It is one of those things where we love you when you move the pile hate it when disaster strikes. Love the effort would love to see the attention to scenario/ detail. nothing to be gained on (first? second?) and long while being gang tackled at the LOS.
There really should have been a facemask called on that play.
Awesome comment. My Tiger Cubs wanted to learn about football and we spent last night before the game at Highland Springs High School with Coach Loren Johnson and some of his players. Coach and his players were fired up about helping a bunch of first graders. They're playing fantastic this year and #3 in the RVA. Guys like Coach Johnson far outweigh horrible games like last night and are why I'm still a Hokie.
I woke up this morning just disgusted with the game last night. That won't change...tough one to watch and swallow. Penalties just make me sick...PRE-SNAP penalties...no excuses this far into the season. Its not all true freshman being penalized. Its guys like Farris, J-Glock, etc.
That being said...I am looking forward to next Thursday and counting on a big bounce back performance by the Hokies...BEAT MIAMI!!!
Go Hokies...Keep the faith!
Coach Speak: We're gonna have to put this one behind us and focus on Miami starting now.
All of the coaches keep understating what has been the reality the last few years. The offense was and remains an unmitigated disaster.
Excatly.... I mean 7 yards of total offense in the 1st quarter - completely unacceptable, vs a team like Pitt.
I take that back - its unacceptable versus anybody.
that was one of the sloppiest games I've ever seen us play. the offense looked like the 2012 team minus lt3 running it for us. I felt bad for the defense and you could see their frustration when the offense couldn't do a thing. I really hope they can get it together for Miami otherwise it's going to be a long second half of the season
I hate Heinz Field.
Unfortunately we have been so pathetic the last few years I do not get upset at bad losses anymore, I just kind of expect them. I will keep watching and cheering for the hokies but I have no lofty expectations anymore until we get a coaching staff that has a better chance of winning by calling competent game plans and actually developing the talent we have on staff. I am not convinced that one of our true freshmen could not do better at qb right now, mostly because they would hopefulyl be brash like T-mobile was and not listen to the idiot calls coming in from the sideline...
Ok rant over, lets go Hokies, this week is all about beating da U!
In all seriousness, Kyshoen was not Kyshoen last night. Is he injured/sick? Nothing in the last three seasons have given me any indication that was a healthy Kyshoen. If he didn't misjudge that pass, no TD for Boyd and possibly no head, that changes the game early drastically.
I'm not trying to pile on Kyshoen, he's my favorite non-Fuller on the team, just seemed so uncharacteristically off last night.
And I've read this script before. Now we beat Miami, get everyone's hopes up again and then lose to Boston College. Because pain is my only friend.
IMHO a Lineman INT has to factor into the FAINT somehow! ;)
Yeah, that was a perfect play call. He was standing there waiting for the ball.
The one brilliant play call by Loeffler was the planned batted pass back to Brewer where he caught his own pass...it worked to perfection for positive yards! Good call Scottie!
It worked almost as well as the double reverse to Rogers with the aborted pass...
Kyshoen definitely gave his hometown team the hometown discount last night. All three Panther touchdowns, Kyshoen was the point of attack that failed. Even on the Voytik run, prior to the ten yard TD run, Kyshoen was responsible for the gap that Voytik went through and then used the ref to separate from Jarrett as well. Not saying that Pitt doesnt score with someone else in there but he was just awful last night.
That said, nothing the defense did or didnt do matters when your O-Line gets no push and your cant accurately pass the football all night.
Hate to say it but... it seems to me like Kyshoen somehow lost a step or three in his time here. He used to be a playmaker, as he showed regularly on punt returns, but Voytik was literally pulling away from him last night.
Between the video game jump on the Boyd TD, the terrible punt return and several missed tackles, Kyshoen didn't look like a guy ready to make an impact on Sundays as he has in the past. Agree
Agree with everything that was said. I have no idea what happened during the bye week but something isn't right with Brewer and Kyshoen. Both looked off...way off.
I've been a Loeffler guy but don't understand what he was trying to do. Pitt came out trying to stop the pass and the play calls played right into that strategy. It looked to me like we never even tried to establish the run, just come out slinging it.
On a positive note Motuapuaka was flying around and ready to step in. I didn't notice any mistakes he made and he's only a Fr so the future at Mike looks bright.
Also /sarc, I blame Kendall for dropping what was a likely pick-6 on the one screen play.
Edit: Ferris was off too. Those center exchanges looked like lazy fly balls and set back the timing (seemingly) on every play.
And in a game where amazingly brewer did not throw any int's he just could not come up with the FAINT! :(
Well...he DID throw a pick it was just saved by the roughing the passer call.
There was 2 screens he flew between the QB and the wr and the timing was just slightly off.
Of course Pitt came out focused on stopping the pass, everyone in college football knew we had lost our top three RBs. Nobody uses their 4th & 5th RBs to establish a dominant running game. When we did run the ball, from the very first attempts, we were horrible at it. So why wouldn't Pitt focus on that? Establishing a 1980's style running game is not a panacea, except when you're struggling to beat a team like Western Michigan.
That's my point. We aren't good enough yet to consistently impose our will on the D. We haven't shown any deep passing proficiency (which is why it was open and aside from an AMAZING catch from Bucky we wouldn't have capitalized) so Pitt played a zone and kept everything in front of them. They weren't shy about rushing 3 is some instances. I'm not a coach but why not have a plan to try to run. If you can get a hat on a hat in a non-loaded box your 4th or 5th back should be able to get 3 - 4 yards. I get that we abandoned it because it was a dumpster fire but the idea of using the pass to set up the run was completely flawed from the start given that's the exact way Pitt planned on stopping us...and did.
I don't disagree with any of that, but I think lots of folks are ignoring that our RBs played to their level of skill. There's a reason they're the 4th & 5th options. Also, nobody is giving credit to Pitt's defense, which I only learned this morning was the 4th best rushing defense in the nation going into the game. That is a factor, also.
After last night they very well maybe be #1.
I really don't blame the backs...Caleb and Rogers didn't have alot to work with. They never got a consistent chance to get anything going. Its more the OL play than anything.
It seemed like we came out with a better running game in the 2nd half...but then that disappeared also.
I think JCC has run out of chances...
I think Andrew played with passion, but he clearly got himself stuck in traffic and misread his gap on the two runs following our failed 4th down conversion. Chase was more sorely missed than any player at that point in the game. Andrews going to be good, but made too many mistakes at critical moments.
I think you are right...Conner broke the first level and then there was no one there to clean it up on those two runs.
I agree. His first series looked flawless but after that, it appeared to me that he tried to do too much. Over pursuing and losing his responsibilities on cutbacks. I'm sure French will have some poignant observations there ....
I bet Bud already has.
Motuapuaka has a nose for the ball...that being said....Did anyone else see Conner throw Motuapuaka down to the ground with one arm?
Conner is a beast...
Leal. Just give the kid a shot. There's no way he can do any worse
Yes there is.
Probably can't do much worse than last night....probably can't do much worse than 11 interceptions.
We lost 2 games because of turnovers....we had ONE first down in the first half last night.
Brewer got bailed out on an interception in the end zone....it would have been a crippling turnover. It was a REALLY bad pass. The announcers were like "What the hell is he doing?"
I have been a supporter of Brewer all season....but at this point, seriously, what is the harm in giving Leal a shot? What are we afraid of? We are 4-3...what do we have to lose? I understand loyalty...but I think Brewer can put on his big boy pants and should be able to handle a demotion. He can always earn the spot back with his performance.
I don't have a problem with shaking things up anymore.
I'm not sure I believe it's Leal. I think Motley fits THIS team a little better. We are depending on freshman skill players all over the field and a decimated backfield...we need a mobile QB. And considering Motley beat Leal head to head in the spring and wasn't able to compete in fall practice, I'm not sure he's worse than Leal.
No.
Ok.
Maybe Leal would do better? Are we so afraid to find out?
Would it kill Brewer to take a week off? Are we afraid of hurting his feelings?
Why are we so afraid to make a change?
Ask yourself....What is the downside?
What is the upside?
We can always go back to Brewer...the team needs a shake up.
(or better yet...how about the coaches take some responsibility and "coach up" the team and get rid of the stupid pre-snap penalties)
Did you watch the Sun Bowl
Brewer was 26/45 for 265 yards and a TD. You can do way, way worse than that. And Leal did. Against UCLA.
To use the phrase oft repeated on here when blaming him for the Sun Bowl loss - have you not seen him play?
We've got more problems than QB play. Penalties killed us - again. And again. And again. The coaches, from Frank on down admitted that was a problem and promised to correct it. Again. And again. And again. No rushing attack hurt us more than Brewer's inability to overcome the huge amount of penalties and the zero rushing game hurt us. We went into this with one hand behind our back - no rushing attack whatsoever. Don't put all the blame on Brewer for that.
I'm not trying to be Debbie downer, but why does everybody think it took almost all of fall practice to name a starter???? Just let that sink in
I think its the fact that Brewer arrived in August. In my opinion, three weeks to name a new guy the starter over someone who had been there for 4 years is a pretty short time.
^ This. The fact it took so long looks far more poorly on Leal than it does on Brewer. Leal was here for four years and he still couldn't beat out someone who transferred in and got here in August?
The question you should be asking is not what that says about Brewer but what it says about Leal.
To that end, if Leal looked ready to take the ball, the coaches wouldn't have even bothered bringing Brewer in.
Brewer's the guy this season. Some people refuse to wrap their minds around that, but it is as it should be. Next season maybe we get some legit pressure to bring in Ford or Motley if Brewer struggles, but this is Brewer's year. And TBH, with the exception of his meltdown against GT, Brewer has exceeded my expectations. I think he starts all next season as well and smashes some single season records (and not just INTs :P) along the way.
Scot Loeffler says we need to run the ball better. Wow that is profound. Run better? Call it like is is man. The run game was non-existent. Saying we need to run the ball better is the understatement of the night.
I could tell after the first two offensive possessions it was going to be a long night. The offensive line was just plain horrible. And you could tell the entire team lacked a spark, and lacked confidence. After the second three- and-out, you could just sense the entire team hunkering down and settling into the realization that they were destined to lose. It has been a common demeanor the last few years.
It's crazy how quickly we can go from optimism to wanting to fire everyone and revoke all the scholarships and burn Lane to the ground to start over. The Hokies are gonna lose a lot of games while I am alive. More important than those losses are the character of the players we send out into the real world. Beamer is a great coach and a great guy. He makes great players with (apart from a few notable exceptions) great character who represent the university well.
I know we have been burned by the Hokies before. They make us have just a bit of hope, and then it's gone. But sometimes, they do something that we didn't expect and it's amazing. I like those moments. Those are why I watch.
No one is knocking FB or his dedication to the players and the program, however for the 5 post game pressers he has said we need to focus and execute a little better. Hello, the season is over half gone, you should be focused by now.
Is FB an ambassador for VT? Absolutely. Is he past his prime and lost his vision? Now that might be the hard question to answer. With a new AD and President at the university, you might be surprised.
I would indeed be surprised if anything happens to Beamer considering he just signed an extension (given to him by the new AD), a new basketball coach was hired, the school owes money to the previous two basketball coaches, owes money to Weaver, ticket sales are down, and HokieClub memberships are down. I have no clue what our finances actually look like, I just know we owe a good bit of money and I am under the impression we can't afford to a make a big time hire at head coach.
No matter what happens the rest of this season & next, Beamer is not going to be asked to leave. Whit's already shown he's got a lot of patience, and that's not even factoring in Frank's status. Frank will be here through the 2016 season, no matter how bad it gets between now & then. If, at the end of that year things are still floating around the 6-6,7-5 kind of production, it wouldn't surprise me if Frank might decide to step down on his own. He's not going to be asked to leave, though.
Regardless of that - all talk about replacing Frank is really, really not useful. He's going to be here for a while, and the focus just needs to be on how to get better, not who to get in place of him.
It's kind of a catch-22, because with Beamer still how "how to get better" may not actually be a thing.
I think we are who we are under Beamer right now. This is us, this is Virginia Tech - a middle of the road ACC Coastal Team. Its fine, we had some fun years. But realistically, what's going to happen between now and the end of 2016? Nothing. It's not the Frank Beamer way. He doesn't change things, he doesn't like to change things. It's the reason we had Bryan Stinespring as an OC for a bloody decade - long after it was transparent he wasn't cut out for the job.
So, Loeffler's not going anywhere. None of the coaches are going anywhere unless they do a good enough job to get a crack at a legit top 25 school like Grimes did. So, what exactly can we do to "get better?" It looks like the answer to that question is: a whole lot of nothin'.
Really, what it's come to is on offense the solution is "Hope really hard that things get better for no reason." That's an exceptionally bleak position to be put in as a fan base, and it's understandable why so many fans are so frustrated right now. There's literally nothing we can do, and there aren't, at the moment, a whole lot of signs that things can or will turn around. It's just a bummer.
Actually there is ONE simple thing we can fix, should fix, and need to fix. There is really no excuse to NOT fix this one simple thing....STUPID PENALTIES!
Pre-snap penalties are a sign of lack of discipline and lack of preparation.
Beamer has been saying it will be fixed for weeks now...it keeps happening. Who is to blame? Who can fix this? How do you fix it?
I leave it up to the winningest active coach in NCAA football to figure it out...he certainly should be able to figure it out. He and the assistant coaches are PAID to figure it out.
I am not saying to fire anyone...just get it done Frank...just get it done.
Which is *entirely* on the coaching staff. This has been a problem all season and this is game 7. They still haven't fixed it. Which means they don't know how to fix it, which means they don't know how to do one of the most basic elements of their job. So how do you fix that? You get coaches who do know how to do their job. Which is not going to happen. Which, was pretty much the point I was making.
I think Beamer has changed........hell this is only year two with this brand new offensive coaching staff. We have a ton of talent coming in....which also shows how we have changed our recruiting.
Also, Grimes' team is not in the top 25 (in fact LSU sucks at offense)
In what specific ways has Beamer changed?
People are acting like *finally* demoting (he didn't even fire him) Stiney after a decade of poor performance after he was figuratively forced to by...everyone, including the circumstances, was some sort of grand, Pygmalion-esqe transformation for Frank Beamer.
I'm sorry, a stubborn old man doing something he doesn't want to do because he has no practical choices left isn't really a transformative event. It's done begrudgingly, and I would love to know what evidence you have that Beamer has in any way "changed."
Completely agree with everything you have stated Duffman. Frank hates and doesn't make changes, gets frustrated with something that is his fault, and the excuses are running thin. I think you may be on to something: maybe we are just an ACC school from now on. We had a few good runs, but nothing is changing about this program at all, other than the fact we beat an OSU team that people still don't know enough about them to claim they're an elite program yet (as of right now). If you don't make any changes, don't expect to be any better on game day. It's as simple as that. It just stinks that we have such a good defense that does things right every week, yet we can't put up more than 16 points against a pretty average opponent. I'm ranting now so I'll stop, but you seem like the type who hates excuses as much as I do, Duffman. Leg
Stubborn old man?
CFB deserves better than that.
He's made some significant changes in the past 2 years and I see a lot of exciting things changing. If you can't see improvements in the skill positions on offense from last year to this then I can't help you.
Almost all college coaches have 4 years left on their contract. It is a recruiting tool and not really a factor in whether a coach stays or goes.
Imagine going on the road and losing a big conference game where you're clearly miffed on the sideline at the lack of offensive discipline and execution.
You should take nothing from his post-game pressers, especially after a loss. Do you want him to dye his hair, where a visor and start belittling his team? No thanks, his lack of transparency is him being gracious enough to keep his critical comments in the locker room. The dude has been this way since the beginning. I'd be alarmed if he said anything different.
I didn't see anyone saying fire everyone and revoke the scholarships. I see alot of honest criticism. It seems to me like most of the criticism is fair and warranted. The team played like crap last night...the coaching was NOT good. The team wasn't prepared. We made dumb mistakes and repeated unforced penalties. We didn't play with fire. The QB play was not good. The offensive line play was weak. We repeatedly threw the ball short of the sticks when we needed more yards. We fumbled the ball in critical situations. The play calling had no rhythm and no consistency. We lacked an offensive identity. Our running game was non-existent.
Pittsburgh is no world beater...we should be able to run the ball on Pitt...at least for more than 26 yards.
I don't see anyone panicking....I just see a lot of honest opinions. No one is giving up. I like our players and I like the talent we have brought in.
Why is everyone so afraid of making changes at QB? Maybe it would shake things up and make Brewer improve?
I am not writing him off forever....maybe he needs to sit the bench for a game or a few quarters to get some perspective. Again, I am not blaming him for the loss. The running game and the o-line are just as big a factor. The penalties are just as big a factor.
How about the Delay of Game when we we were in the redzone? The false start..the snap infraction.
Shake things up Hokies!
You have nothing to lose and time is running out....
You must have missed the many "fire Loeffler/Beamer/all the coaches" statements that have been going around. TKP isn't AS polluted as many other places on the Internet, but there have been a few. People are panicking and people are giving up though. There have been people saying that we should not go to a game and more or less boycott it to make a point. What point is that? People are chalking up our game against UVA in OVER A MONTH to a loss already.
And yet they have the #4 run defense in the nation. Regardless of their competition, they aren't a pushover. When have we proven that we can run the ball on anybody not named Western Michigan at will?
I am only reading TKP...so I wouldn't see those comments.
Yes, I know Pitt has a good run defense...but I don't care if they were the 85 Chicago Bears....26 yards isn't cutting it. Its up to Loeffler to adjust. If they are stacking the line then his play calling needs to reflect that. Either way you slice it...we didn't get it done and the running game was awful. That was reflected in the score.
Ford, Phillips,Hodges, Williams, McKenzie are ALL STUDS... These kids are special. I just hope Brewer for the rest of this year and next year gets a little bit better and our Oline drastically gets better because the weapons at skill position are something we haven't seen here before.
Forgot the lunch pail that is Rogers.
That guy should have his own line of steel toed boots.
We need a better offensive line and we need a better QB. That's it in a nutshell.
For 90% of the game last night, our OL was simply awful. Aside from Jon McLaughlin, we don't have a single O-lineman that would start for another program in the ACC not named Wake Forest. The single best thing that can be said about our OL is that after 6 more games, the bottom 60% of it will be gone. The three seniors are the three worst OL that we have.
As for Michael Brewer, while I admire the kid's grit and toughness, he can't throw an accurate ball past 20 yards and he simply has too many "What the f**k!?!?!" moments to be the starting QB for a nationally relevant program. That INT that he threw in the end zone last night at the end of the 1st half was simply inexcusable. Luckily we were bailed out by a roughing-the-passer penalty and still managed to get 3 points out of the possession. But he continues to have these monster brain cramps in critical situations and if he hasn't been able to cut them out by now, he never will.
I am rooting for Andrew Ford to win the starting QB job in 2015. He's tall, smart, knows the game, has a strong arm to throw a legitimate deep ball, and most importantly, he is consistently accurate with his throws.
"We need a better offensive line and we need a better QB. That's it in a nutshell" etc.
I agree with all of that. Brewer has gone from "an off game" to "an off season" at this point.
When you see things over and over, it becomes reality, not aberration.
And to take that theme out a step further, I'm closer to being convinced that VT just cannot be successful without a true dual threat QB. I worry Ford could suffer Glennon's fate. We seemingly need Houdini's like a Vick or Taylor to have a prayer of escaping the "2 seconds (max) and get it out" passing game.
Palmer (or Pollack) made a good point about Brewer last night saying that before tech he probably rarely had a FB and TE on the field at the same time which condenses the D and changes how you read things. It's obvious that he's not comfortable in the I yet since they keep calling plays out of the shotgun. Like it or not he's a Fr when it comes to our system and perhaps our expectations for him have been too high (Loeffler's included).
11 picks in 7 games is not acceptable no matter how old you are or if you are a freshman or a senior.
He has hurt us...repeatedly.
He mixes in periods where he looks great with boneheaded plays...he lures you in and then crushes your dreams.
Correct, that was the point. He's a freshman QB and prone to inconsistency play. I'm not debating if it's acceptable or not just that many, myself included, got a little too high on him after tOSU thinking we had RS Jr QB when the reality is, in our system, he's not.
I'm sorry, this needs to stop. Michael Brewer is in no way, shape, or form a "Freshman QB." Just stop. He is a redshirt Junior QB who has been playing QB in high-level situations for his whole life. He was running more complex offenses in HS than he's running here. He's been playing football at the collegiate level for 4 years. "A freshman in this system" is the exact kind of excuse-making nonsense that needs to end.
He's a 21 year old man who is asked to do a job, and he's not doing a very good job of it. Is it all his fault? Of course not. The "system" you want to make him a "freshman" in isn't one, and it's likely the source of a lot of his issues. But not all of them. He's got a lot of very real issues with how he plays.
LOL, I'm sorry "freshman in the system?" that's such a reach I don't even...Hey remember when Russell Wilson transferred to Wisconsin and took them to a Rose Bowl even though he was a Freshman in their system? what an accomplishment!
More complex offense in high school is laughable. He was never the fill time starter at Texas tech.. And remember when Wisconsin had Montee Ball that year and he was a heisman finalist? Stop flaming, bro
Michael Brewer played QB at Lake Travis High School for a guy named Chad Morris...
Ever heard of that guy or the offenses he runs?
For the record, Brewer was the starter only after Morris left. I still don't think any high school offense is more complex or detailed than Loeffler's current high-intellect, multi formation, matchup exploiting, incredibly demanding playbook. Some of his plays look brilliant, some are wtf duds, but no one would accuse Loeffler's offense of being simple, especially compared to an offense set up for high schoolers.
Edited for holy autocorrect, batman
How many starts, completions, and throws did he have prior to coming here? He hasn't really played any football since high school.
Also nothing "has to stop". I'm sorry that you are only happy if everyone jumps out as says, "everything sucks and will until Beamer is gone". Unfortunately other people have opinions that differ from yours. If you don't like reading people's opinions on a message board designed for such a thing then stop clicking.
If people disagreeing with you upsets you so much, I suggest you take your own advice and stop posting. If you insist on posting anyway, you're going to take criticism when you present silly statements along the lines of "freshman in the system."
I mean, that's just such an obvious stretch I don't even...
It also lends itself to easy rebuttals like "Well if you're going to play a 'freshman in the system', why not play an actual freshman who can give you 4 years in your system as opposed to someone who can only give you two at the most."
So if he's a freshman in the system now, next year he's a sophomore in the system, and then he's not in the system. What's even the point? I mean, next year we can't expect things to be any better, he's only going to be a "sophomore in the system."
I have no problem with people disagreeing with me and engaging in a thoughtful debate. I have a problem with someone running through the boards and any sort of opinion or statement or thought that counters their inherently negative viewpoint they feel the need to call flat out wrong when their's is just the same thing, an opinion.
Also is this his first year in the system? I think that would lend credence to him being a freshman, or first year (in UVA speak), in the system.
Since you asked, I personally supported putting one of the Fr out there this year so that they could learn under fire. Unfortunately I don't make those decisions.
I'm sorry but I just don't think you can compare Michael Brewer and Russell Wilson. Let's first look at why these players transferred. Michael transferred because he was hurt at Texas Tech and lost the job the Davis Webb. Davis Webb was a 4-star recruit who was on the Maxwell and Manning award watchlists earlier this season as a true sophomore. Russell Wilson transferred after starting for 2.5 years at NC State and being named the Preseason All-ACC quarterback. The reason he transferred wasn't because of not starting, but because of a desire to play baseball as well after being sent an invite to the Colorado Rockies spring training and the coach didn't like that.
The second reason we can't compare MIchael Brewer and Russell is simply because Russell Wilson is Russell Wilson? Have you seen what that guy has been doing on Sundays? As much as I would hope so, not all quarterbacks, including Michael Brewer can be superstars even on Saturdays. The truth to the matter is that the coaches watch him and all the other quarterbacks practice everyday and evaluate them based on what's best for the Virginia Tech football team. The coaching staff feels that Michael Brewer is the best option. Do I believe he needs to play better? Yes. Do I believe he makes questionable decisions? Yes. Do I believe that he gives this team the best chance to win out of all of the quarterbacks currently on the roster, especially this far into the season? Absolutely.
Michael Brewer is the Virginia Tech quarterback. Face it. IMO we need to quit focusing on who we can replace, who we can fire, and who can bench and focus on how to put points on the board. We don't have all of the pieces to the puzzle, but who do have some pieces in the correct place to complete it.
I wasn't comparing Michael Brewer to Russel Wilson. I was refuting the absurd notion of anyone being a "Freshman in the System."
It's logical gymnastics at it's finest.
With regard to your last paragraph, I guess it's just a philosophical difference. I don't know how you "put points on the board" when your Starting QB has proven, more often than not, that this is a challenging concept for him. If we're not going to change anything, we're not going to change any coaches (Which we're not under beamer, all sane people accept that), and we're not going to change any players, how can things possibly change? That's what I don't understand. There's literally no other option people are offering up besides "hope things magically get better for absolutely no reason." That, to me, isn't really a valid strategy to promote change.
We had a week and a half off, and what changed? Nothing, certainly not for the better. That's what they looked like with *extra* prep time. So, what's your solution? Line up in an i formation for three downs behind a line that has proven they can't open holes, and hand the ball off to uppserclassmen RBs who are 4th and 5th string for a reason? That seems to be everyone else's Panacea for the offense.
Insanity: Doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results. I agree something different needs to be done. Especially with more time to prepare. I personally am not a fan of running the ball out of the gun. If this offense doesn't want to run out of an I-formation (which it isn't built to do) at least line up in the Pistol. It allows for more downhill running from the backs. Plus the routes we're running obviously aren't working. We need to find separation.
Maybe Durkin could be the answer next year? Who knows but agree, it do miss those Vick/Tyrod/Randall type of runs in the past. Brewer does have some "escapability" in him from the pocket and is too bad he didn't run on that very last play last night as he would have gotten a first down.
I didn't know Ford was that awesome. I've never seen him play. Sign me up for #TeamFord
Brewer is probably the worst deep ball thrower I've ever seen. Of course the only team I watch every game of is the Hokies, so there is likely worse out there. But he has thrown zero deep balls accurately so far this year. That great catch by Bucky last night is the first one that Brewer has even given his receiver a chance to make a play.
Not saying this to be a jerk but what are you basing Ford's arm strength on? I ask because in French's write up about him he said the following:
The back-up QB is always the most popular player.
I guess it's a good thing then that VT isn't a nationally relevant program at this time.... sigh
I'll just say this...last night I went to my favorite watering hole to watch the game and was surprised to find a group of Pitt fans there. They were mostly pretty cool, but they kept remarking how they couldn't understand how we beat Ohio St....and I cant blame them. Brewer stunk, Conner killed our D on enough plays, and not having our top 3 RB showed. To be completely honest our record at 4-3 is reflective of what kind of football team we are. UVa scares me, which is not good...
If the game were played right now, UVA would beat us.
Just kidding...I just really wanted to use that gif, sadly I think I agree with you
UVa always scares me, because only bad things can happen when we play them. Beating them is more a relief than an accomplishment. We win and things continue as they have for the last decade. They win and...
It certainly has seemed exactly like that lately.
But, as bad as we are looking right now, if they can't beat us THIS year...
Works both ways. : )
The Ohio State game is looking more & more like a fluke upset with every passing week. The one saving grace is that it might be the win responsible for keeping us bowl eligible at 6-6, and continuing our illustrious streak. Wouldn't that be ironic?
Scot Loeffler is a glorified Brian Stinespring......
I wonder now if Brewer, for next year, has worked his way into Leal's current fate:
A senior who, with all things considered, is by-passed by youth.
Let's all just hope to God we get these offensive penalties into the rearview by...oh, I don't know...would the UVA game be too much to ask?
." Next weeks home crowd will gauge overall fan support and confidence in program" Support for team maybe , confidence in coaches & program not so sure .
I'm tired of losing to bad teams. There have been lots of seasons where we have just been plain hard to watch, but last night is probably as bad as it gets. Its great to hear announcers mocking our offense like they did when Stinespring was OC. I'll be in Lane next Thursday, but I'm no longer really looking forward to it.
I get it not being sold out next week. I personally only live 2 hours away, but having to drive up on Thursday afternoon and then back that night to get to work in the morning on 4 hours of sleep all to watch a team that appears to be regressing, especially the QB, and may even be a home underdog the day after Thanksgiving, is not everyone's idea of fun.
Just keep trying to remind myself that sports, like all things in life, are cyclical. I just hope we figure it out while all this talent is here.
I think the lack of running game options hurt us even more then the obvious lack of yards. Marshawn (and shai, to a lesser extent) had become a decently effective goal line back. We looked completely baffled on their side of the field, and I think Loeffler's hesitation (for once, easily warranted) to run the ball took more out of the offense than we realized.
If one field goal was a touchdown, we're down by one at the end of the game, going for a field goal. If JC doesn't have the ball to fumble, maybe they have one less score. A lot falls apart after your third (THIRD!!!) string running back goes down. Is there another solo position we go 4 deep on, much less 5? And would we expect them to be even remotely competitive?
As the prospect of playing for ACC Championship dims, we better just not lose to Virginia.
With UVA currently sitting undefeated at the top of the Coastal Division...no. We BETTER not lose to Virginia.
If I were to voice my opinions on the game I would only be repeating any and all of you. I will however point out that Jessie Palmer is a punk bitch!!! If he would have said "3rd and California" one more time, I was prepared to haul ass to Pittsburgh and beat his bitchy little face in as he sat at the hotel bar sipping Cape Cods.
Free Mark Leal.
From a qualitative perspective, Brewer looks far more comfortable in the hurry up offense, especially since anOSU. I wonder if our number crunchers on here could look at his hurry up performance versus huddle plays. Honestly maybe he just needs less time to think, or maybe the simplified offense of the hurry up works better for these players?
I think we're still trying to dominate TOP, but without a running game it requires perfect execution, which we didn't have last night. We saw what the defense looked like after 3 quarters of Pitt's offense on the field pretty much uninterrupted
Edit: Pitt only had the ball 31 minutes, so I guess it was more our lack of a lead giving them a free pass to pound it down our throats
You will never, ever, ever see a tempo offense (outside of 2 min drills or being down a lot late) under Frank Beamer. Ever. It goes against everything he believes in. He doesn't care if it's more effective, he doesn't care if his QB performs better, and he doesn't care if it actually sustains drives and moves the sticks. It has the potential to stop the clock sometimes, and to Frank Beamer making the clock go down as quickly as humanly possible is the #1 goal of his offenses.
He's never played that way before, and in the sunset in his career he's not going to change now. He would rather lose and take solace in the notion that he played correctly but (missed a block, execution, one play away, etc)
You just gave voice to my worst fear about HC Beamer. Because its one thing to have a preference for one attacking philosophy over another, but if circumstances warrant a change, like losing your top three RBs to injuries, then he needs to adjust his offense to the personnel that he has on hand.
Also, I thought the point of the offense was to score points, not win the TOP battle. While TOP is important, the ultimate goal is to win games by scoring more than your opponent, not lose to him but still keeping the ball longer.
"Wait, you're supposed to score more points than the other team?" -Scott Loeffler
I agree, I said before, our offense just seems way too complicated for these kids. Our we running an offense that requires us to have a Tom Brady, Chad Henne, Andrew Luck level talent? Cuz if so... I think we understand how rare those guys are, not to mention getting them to commit when they come around.
I agree. Have to consider these kids have limited practice time, are only going to play in an offense for 3-5 seasons and will only receive prioritized coaching when they are on the two-deep.
I think the complexity of the offense correlates to all the pre-snap penalties too.
Brewer is more comfortable in an up-tempo offense. That was his high school and Texas Tech background. It allows him to get into rhythm like you saw at Ohio State and brief parts of other games. Also, collectively, we have maybe the most talented group of receivers we've had at VT. On offense, we need to play more towards those player and team talents. Let's face it, our running game, either due to injuries and/or the lack of O-line blocking, is not going to be fixed this year.
In the games where Brewer has been able to set the pace and maintain it he has been more accurate and the offense has worked far better. When we slow the offense down and huddle, we get penalties left and right. It also gives the opposing defense a better shot to prepare, why should we wait for them to be ready.
I sometimes wonder if the O-line is better in the hurry up too. We have all ready the French writeups which detail good play by each member of the O-line but they lack consistency. I wonder if they play better when they don't think about all of the different ways they will fail on the next play.
The no huddle may force composure???
Its like we are never expected to lose.
This was a really really bad Pitt team, If you have designs on a division championship like our coaches and players kept saying, you have absolutely no business losing to teams as bad as this Pitt team or that GT team.
The real difference in the current team (of the past 3 seasons) and the pre-regression teams of our earlier ACC days is really pretty simple. Then, we would beat a team like Pitt or GT to stay a game ahead in the divisional race. Now, we don't.
We are in the same muck as Pitt, GT, UNC, & all the others who float along taking turns exchanging losses to each other while posting a record of anywhere between 6-6 & 8-4. With the occasional 9-3 thrown in once every 5-6 years. That's who we are now - the stereotypical ACC football team. Good enough to keep the boosters from becoming angry, but soft enough inside to never really matter on a national scale.
Now that F$U has returned to their elite level, we're more forgettable nationally than ever.
We don't need to accept mediocrity. We AREN'T expected to lose to teams like Pitt...a team that lost to Akron a few weeks back.
We have every right as fans to complain about sloppy play and playing below our level of talent...losing games we should not lose.
Welp! I'm stomped.
This team is too difficult to understand. As a New Yorker, to me we look a lot like the JETS. A head coach who gets defenses but is completely flummoxed when it comes to offensive coaching hires, draft picks, and free agency signings. I'm not sure CFB understands the problem; certainly Shane doesn't.
I've never been one to blame players exclusively, especially on the collegiate level, because I've too many times seen teams with ECU, Utah, Tulsa, and Boise St talent, churn out ridiculous offenses. Bud Foster does the same with our defense, and those schools do not recruit better than us. Kessler at USC looked like a bust under Kiffin, a coaching change late in the season, and he's a different guy. The players to me are not the issue.
In today's game of football where offenses are putting up 500+ yrds/g, and the legislation trying to facilitate better offensive production, 7 three and outs is inexcusable (against Pitt); especially when coming off a bye week.
This team is definitely young, and growing pains are fine, but with all these penalties getting worse not better, what is Loeffeler doing to facilitate the growth process? Remember, Clemson is very young offensively as well, and so is Alabama. Yes, they've probably brought in better talent but that doesn't explain a lot of our miscues. Both of those teams are getting better, we are not.
Again, I have no idea what's going on. But too many times we accept it for what it is because we're loyal fans, but how much better can we expect to be next year when we're playing our worst games mid season?
Disappointed in the team right now but this made me smile
We don't write this stuff thinking we are going to get results or make a change...we are simply venting. We have every right as a fan to vent and complain. Thats what being a passionate fan is all about. Just as we rejoice and celebrate, we have the ability to get out our frustrations on boards like this.
I've yet to see our fan base rejoice and celebrate other than the Ohio State game. No matter what has happened, there has been complaining. Win, lose, or on a bye week, there's complaining.
Are you kidding? I have #PROOF from #SOURCES that immediately after Coach Beamer read my 10,596,437th post about the offensive line, he fired Curt Newsome.
I never vent, and I always get results.
I understand that and I did some venting on this page too. I just saw this and laughed and wanted to share so others may laugh.
I'm with you on the QB change, but I don't think you'll ever see it unless there is an injury.
I think saying we are inconsistent on offense is being very generous.
Not sure if anyone saw this or made this comment. Why didn't Brewman take off running when no one was open rather than try to force something? It looked like there were many times he could have gained first downs by scrambling. Instead he threw the ball away. Without the threat of running, the LBs could cover routes better. That is the value of the dual threat QB. LBs have to split their attention and guys get open.
Is Brewer hurt or afraid of getting hit?
Well a lot of people have been saying that the big hits he took against OSU and ECU might still be lingering.
I know I'm going to sound like Frank here, but I really liked the way these guys fought to come back in the second half. It took a lot of heart and it's a damn shame we didn't allow the gunslinger to get after it any earlier than the middle of the third quarter.
Speaking of Brewer, I know a lot of you want Brewer's head on a pike and can't wait to see Leal play. But in Brewer's defense, I contend that a lot of his first half issues last night were solely attributable to everyone focusing on his high interception total this season. I mean we have fans betting with charity money that he won't throw an interception each fucking game. If I had thousands of people on twitter saying they'll donate money every time I take a leak and don't dribble a splash on the rim, then I'd probably have a crisis of confidence when it came to taking a piss as well. And I'm 100% aware that Brewer's interceptions have absolutely killed us (GiT/ECU). But the guy is a typical gunslinger QB. This is how he's programmed. He's gonna toss a handful of interceptions per game, he's gonna also throw a couple of TDs per game too (hopefully). I'm just worried that all the focus on his interception proclivities caused him to pull back on throws, short hop a handful of passes, and hang out in the pocket too long in the first half.
Sorry...disagree. Brewer is a big boy...he isn't a 17 year old true freshman. To say it again...put on your big boy pants.
Championship teams don't make excuses like that.
Maybe he should stay off Twitter.
A "handful of interceptions" each game is not acceptable...sorry.
So...he throws a bunch of interceptions...focuses on that to the point of shorthopping throws, pull back on throws and hang in the pocket too long...
Doesn't that mean he is playing bad and not getting the job done?
You are merely making excuses for him while admitting he is playing bad.
Fair point. And I appreciate you disagreeing with me without simultaneously downvoting me. leg to you, pal!
I respect your opinion and am up legging you for it!
I'm sorry, this is Division 1, Power 5 conference football. If you can't handle that a bunch of people on twitter don't like that you have one of the highest INT rates in the NCAA and it has that much of an effect on you on the field, then you need to re-think...pretty much everything.
Hindsight: I should've left the whole twitter thing out of my first comment. Too late to alter it now.
It tits what it tits, man.
At any rate, I'm trying to say that Brewer's first half play looked very much like a deer caught in the headlights who was simultaneously getting yelled at by his angry deer-family. If the now improbable-looking OSU win showed us anything, it's that Brewer has the skills to make shit happen -- BUT only when he plays loose. I think we can both agree that if he's going to be effective again, he's gotta go out there, tell Lefty he's got this shit, and start spinning the ball like he knows how to. Long and short, it looks like his brain is getting in the way of his skillset.
That picture of CFB says it all. A lot of frustration when you are first and goal from the 3 and go backwards on penalties.
I agree with you...the look on Frank's face in that pic just sums up the game last night....
VT has no offensive identity. Loeffler needs a gut check.... If the O ever gets on the same page as the D we will be contenders. Brewer is a big 12 QB. He plays much better with tempo!!!! Pre snap penalties and itch azz play calling is killing us!!!! How will we attract the offensive talent we need, with these types of offensive displays. I wouldn't go to VT to play O. Someone needs to grab his azz by the neck and fire his azz up. D like Tarzan and O like Jane!!!!
Joe, no need to defend your wanting a quarterback change. You spoke your mind and were honest about your thoughts on your team. Why is that something that needs defending? Typical tkp.
If anything, Brewer's play as of late supports your claim.
I didn't mean defend in a negative context. People disagreed, but I didn't get attacked for it.
I wanted to defend my original position and elaborate on it in space that gave me more than 140 characters.
Yikes!
Offensive ineptitude like a record # of pre-snap penalties 7 games into the season, repeatedly throwing short of the sticks on 3rd down, and putting the ball on the turf (not just JC Coleman) show that this offensive group is over-anxious and not focused.
Defensively they didn't play badly and forced some turnovers. Too bad KJ had the worst defensive game of his career in front of his hometown fans. Uncharactaristic for him.
I couldn't help thinking that we've gotten too cute on offense. Teams are lining up and taking it to us, and daring us to do the same. And we can't.
penalty wise we are averaging 9.3 a game. We are currently 2nd in FBS on number penalties called on. BUT the worst part is Texas tech in first is averaging penalty yards lost per penalty of 9.3, about average overall. VT is averaging losing 7.45 yards per penalty, abnormally low for FBS driven by all season long offensive errors
To Cute on offense...I don't know. We have got to do something to create some kind of variety (Both on Offense and Defense - See Paul Johnson Comment on going for it on 4th down against us). Pitt knew we were going to pass so they over protected the pass play. I knew we were going to pass. So somehow we need trick plays or something different. The Defense was good but we came to play the ACC Leading rusher and knew there would be running, yet we still couldnt stop it. Pitt is averaging 240 yards a game on the ground, we held them to 210, so we stopped them aliitle
Hey all, long time lurker, first time poster.
One of the most frustrating things for me this season has been Brewer's inability to hit somebody in stride more than 20-25 yards down the field. I mean I honestly can't think of a single play where he has hit an open receiver downfield that has gotten behind the defense and allowed them to run after the catch for a big play. We have the type of guys like Ford, Hodges, and Phillips that can blow the top off a defense, but it just seems like every time someone breaks loose the ball is so badly overthrown that the receivers don't even have a chance to make a play on it or they have to break stride, lay out and try to make a spectacular catch.
In tight games, especially sloppy ones like last night, those big plays are the big difference makers. There were multiple times when our guys had space deep and could have made a big play to change the game, but Brewer just couldn't get them the ball. Pitt's big play to Boyd was a difference maker. He had space downfield (granted that was a horrible angle that Jarrett took), but Voytik put the ball on the money and let him make a play. Brewer just can't seem to do that.
My two cents from someone who has no idea what they are talking about.
Brewer seems to need a rhythm to be effective. When the rhythm is stalled or interrupted, he has trouble getting going again. The pre-snap penalties are killing the rhythm. Lost at least one touchdown for this. Offensive coaches have got to fix the penalties, or they will not maintain any rhythm, regardless of the RB situation.
Also we talk about getting the ball in the hands of playmakers. Sam Rogers should have been running the ball more from the start. That guy has more heart than any Hokie I have seen in a long time. There is no quit in him.
I know the game isn't won on paper and you play on the field for the winner
But for Pitt that game was almost exactly as it should have been on paper
Pitt's Defense is averaging giving up 18 points per game on 275 yards per game while its Offense is averaging scoring 24 points a game (Taking out FCS Game)
Long threads are not my style, and I am short on time...but I will say this. I was a freshman in 92, and witnessed in person the birth of our bowl streak nearly every Saturday, so I've been around some heartbreaking losses. Today was the first time in a while that I woke up a little depressed from a loss. Haven't fully absorbed why, but I tend to think it's a positive to feel this way. I let my guard down with the changes afoot on this team, and for good reason, things are going in the right direction and I think that we all feel it. Recently the losses didn't hurt as much for me so I welcome the return of their sting.
I'll leave the in depth conversation to you guys. All I'm gonna say is I HATE it when we lose 21-16...
Benching Michael is not the answer. Effective play calling and coaching will do much more for this team than sitting a talented player for an "eh" quarterback like Leal.
Yes, his talent is marred by the dumb decisions he makes but, honestly, there are a number of factors working against him (Brewer) being an effective quarterback. Namely, whats going on between his ears right now. His height becomes a factor when the pocket collapses and he cant see over his own offensive line. He has little or no time to throw the ball when receivers are open and when he does have time our receivers are rarely getting separation. During the Western Michigan game he had, at various times, almost 5 seconds in the pocket and the receivers were still having trouble selling routes and getting separation.
Bottom line: offensive line play is atrocious and the playing calling is suspect. But what could we really expect from two sub-par hires?
That aside, for a team that touts itself as a running team wouldnt it be a good idea to start recruiting elite linemen as opposed to 2 and 3 star guys we hope our coaches can turn into good players?
I don't know that I agree that Brewer is that much more talented than Leal.
Remember, we were told all off-season that the QB competition was very, very close. If there was as big of a chasm as you imply, that wouldn't be the case. He's had exactly one good game. That's it. And it was a great one, and we're all very thankful for it.
But, he's done very little to retain possession of the job since, especially if the QB competition really was as close as the coaches said.
I'll assume that you are referring to the OSU game as the great game, and actually that was one of his worse games statistically. He threw for more yards last night, and had no recordable picks.
Honestly though, I don't know what to think here. I probably would have pulled him last night. But I don't know how much better Leal would have fared. My reasoning for pulling him would have been "How much worse can it get?"
If Brewer goes out, bring in Motley and not Leal. At that point, you're already waving the white flag on the season, so you might as well give Motley a chance to show he can be the guy for 2015 & beyond instead of giving reps to a guy who will be off the team in a month.
Isn't Motley hurt?
I wouldn't necessarily describe it as a "chasm", but I do think there is probably a sufficient difference in talent between the two.
As for the off-season competition. I tend to consider the majority of what is said as "coach-speak". I don't think the race was really that close. If there were an actual competition it was likely only between Brewer and Motley.
The arguments for a quarterback change are repetitive. Last year, everyone wasn't happy with LT and whined for a QB change. Now Brewer is the scapegoat. Barring injury Motley would likely be listed as number two on the depth chart. As has been said before. If Leal were that good or better than Brewer or LT, he would have been playing.
If the race wasn't that close, why not just name Brewer the starter and be done with it? Why wait so long? I'm sorry, this is a coaching staff who has never been so wishy-washy about naming a starter ever. So, this time, they were doing something they have never done before because...reasons?
It is possible that Beamer was being loyal to his 5th year senior. He didn't want to name the new guy the starter the day he arrived, when Leal had been biding his time for so long. This was a unique situation for this staff. How often have we had a QB transfer in after a year that we lose a 3 year starter? Beamer has proven to be over-loyal in the past. They kept playing Glennon when Tyrod could have been gaining more experience in his early years.
"Never been wishy-washy about naming a starter". Really?
Do you not remember the Glennon/Tyrod mash-up that was a constant disaster or Randall/Vick (Marcus)? If anything is consistent about this football team and it's coaching staff it's that we are "consistently inconsistent" and wishy-washy.
In the offseason? No way man, Glennon was the without a doubt #1 starter in he offseason and going into the season. They wanted to RS Tyrod, and were forced to put him in during the Massacre at Baton Rouge. Ditto for Randall, he was always the clear #1 in the offseason and heading into the season. Come on. This is the first time we literally had no idea who would be the started before a week out of the season in a very long time.
I'll agree with you to the extent that the coaching staff had no other choice but to name him starting QB for the 2005 season considering Marcus wasn't even in the mix at that point due to off-field transgressions. Not to mention that Cory Holt never produced anything sufficient to challenge Glennon.
I disagree that they were "forced" to pull a redshirt from Tyrod. As I recall, Glennon simply had a TERRIBLE game. Again, I regard all the off-season competition hype as "coach-speak". Besides, why even bother to offer Brewer the chance to join the team and play if Leal is definitely "the guy" and you know you've got Motley and potentially Hodges to back him up? IMHO I think Brewer was always going to be the starter.
Agree to disagree?
Also never had a power five transfer at QB arrive weeks before the start of the season. Everything about Brewer's career at VT is unique, so trying to judge it against prior precedent is not really valid. The larger point is valid, VT has a history of being wishy washy about the starting QB.
I don't know, dude. Brewer had at least three times last night where either Hodges, Ford, or Phillips were WIDE open and he just threw it to Kansas.
That's not play calling, and it happens a lot.
I agree he struggles with accuracy past 20 yards, but that doesn't negate poor situational play calling and route running.
In a way it kind of does though. If he hits Bucky in stride, its 7 points on the board. If he hits any of the other guys when they were open downfield, its a TD or at least puts us deep in their territory with a chance to score. Even if you have no rhythm and the play calling sucks, if you just hit on one big play to put points on the board, it completely changes a close game like last night. As bad as our offense looked last night, if Brewer hits on just one big play for a TD out of the multiple chances he had to, we're probably discussing a win today.
I agree. Hitting Bucky in stride for 7 to open the third would have gone a long way in helping to change the complexity of the game and could have swung the "mo" our way. I'm certainly not arguing that Brewer doesn't need to capitalize on the big plays when he has them, but I don't think that Leal makes a better throw.
In the middle of the second qtr Brewer had Ford WIDE, WIDE open. All he had to do was get enough zip on the ball and it's a TD. Not talking about a surgical strike.
Leal makes that throw. Brewer doesn't make the throw, in my opinion, because he's got the interception demon in his head. He held the ball way too long.
At this point, I can live with 2 pick a game Brewer if it means we get gunslinger Brewer as well.
Again, I'm not disagreeing that Brewer has missed throws or thrown some questionable balls.
However, I think it's a bit presumptive to say that Leal will assuredly make all the throws Brewer hasn't or because Leal hasn't played enough to throw any interceptions he's not prone to holding on to the ball or making an errant pass.
And yes, I would gladly choose 2 pick a game Brewer if we get the gunslinger as well.
The longest run of the season is 42 yards. The longest pass of the season (Thanks to Bucky) is 41 yards. This spells disaster to a team especially when they are forced to play from behind. If you rely on 10-15 play drives, where you methodically move down the field, set backs will happen (penalties, sacks, turnovers). The fact that we can't produce a big play is hurting our playcalling in the fact that the DBs can seemingly only worry about shorter routes (And if they get beat deep chances so far are that the pass will be inaccurate) and the defense can load the box to stop the run. I can't think of many times, if any, where a reciever had the ball in open field and just had to make one man miss. THIS IS A PROBLEM.
The problem isn't that we can't produce a big play... We have numerous chances throughout every game to hit a big play with a pass being thrown to an open receiver 20+ yards down the field... No, the issue is that Brewer has consistently shown he is not accurate enough to hit them. He cannot connect on deep passes. Period.
That's our issue right there. Every single deep route is being overthrown by 5+ yards (except for the pass to Ford last night that was underthrown by somewhere in the vicinity of 20 yards). You aren't going to win many games when your QB cannot complete a pass over 15 yards down the field. There's a reason that you aren't seeing over the top safety help by defenses on our WRs right now, and thats because they know once the route gets to 20 yards, the pass isn't being completed. This leaves 2 extra defenders within 15 yards of the LOS, which helps eliminate anything underneath, and all but snuffs out the run.
We aren't going to have a successful offense with the tendencies that Brewer has shown this season.
I agree 100%. We have some chances to hit the deep ball but miss every time. This offense has become entirely too easy to defend. If I'm a DC I'm calling a lot of shallow zone, zero coverage trusting my DBs to make plays and challenge us to complete a pass, and throw a lot of stunts up front to confuse our already flustered O-line. Kind of reminds you of someone doesn't it?
But other than our lack of ability to connect on the deep ball, and I know this is not the problem it just frustrates me, I have yet to see receivers get many YAC. If hitting the deep ball isn't working, let's find ways to isolate guys one on one and let them make a play. Combo routes can put the receivers position for this too. We haven't seen our talented athletes in space all year. I'm waiting to see that quick hitch, bubble screen, quick slant that turns into someone making a play in open field.
Its hard to get YAC when everything is blanketed within 15 yards of the LOS. Basically, each time a pass is caught, there is immediate safety or LB help, meaning the receiver has to break 2 tackles to get YAC. If we could get any semblance of a deep passing game going with accurate passes, the safeties would have to play 20+ yards off the LOS to cover anyone going deep, which would open up the middle of the field about 15 yards deep, and hit a guy in stride there, and he'll be running for an extra 10 yards.
Brewer's lack of ability to hit anything deep is allowing the defense to cheat and clog up everything within 10-15 yards of the LOS, which makes it extremely difficult to get anything going, cause you're rarely going to have someone open, regardless of how well a play is designed.
We seem to be agreeing that the fact that we can't connect on a deep ball (Usually inaccurate, only drops I can think are Isaiah and Cam both dropping TDs in WMU I believe) and that is causing our offense to be terribly predictable and allowing the defense to sell out on the short stuff and run game. I'm just frustrated that we have so many playmakers and we haven't seen them in space.
I need to vent..when I went to School at tech (95-2000), there was some resemblance of an offense no matter how bad of a season we were having and I think during that time, the worst we finished was 7-5 under Al Clark/Soreson as the QBs. But at least we had a line, some running and we always made plays. Now it seems like the offense is completely inept, can't make touchdowns, can't make a first down, the play-calling is suspect, use of personel is suspect. I mean why not use caleb more often, why not use Bucky in 1-on-1 situations in the end zone. I'm completely frustrated with the offense right now. I don't what the heck Lefty is doing.
Too much hating on Brewer so I going to say what I like about him.
1. That man can take a hit.
2. He trusts his receivers to make plays on the ball.
3. He is a baller when it comes to broken plays. Scooping up fumbles and catching tipped passes. Can't teach those instincts.
I started going to VT games in 1974, so I have seen a lot of VT football some good, some great and some well to say, not too good or just done right bad. Frank came in and did a wonderful job of turning around a program and putting us on the map. And he did it by playing Va Tech football.
Now, for over a decade, I have heard we need to get back to playing Va Tech football and I am not quite sure what that means because the old style Va Tech football might not work in today's spread them wide open throw it down the field never huddle game.
It short and to get off my soapbox, we just need to find some sort of offensive identity. If that means play VT football, then recruit guys who can do that. But the reality of today's CFB is that will probably not work for you unless you are Alabama.
We obviously have talent on this team, but I am not sure we know how to utilize said talent.
In short GO HOKIES and let's get this runaway train turned around. BEAT MIAMI!!
I was reading Bitter's column this morning and while the bulk of the blame should be placed of the offensive side of the ball...something is getting lost. That is the fact that we allowed a quarterback to run for over 100 yards on us. Again. Like the offensive struggles, this can't be ignored anymore...this isn't a fluke, Bud Foster defenses cant defend a running QB. Cato, CJ Brown, and Hundley all roasted a good D last year, and it seems like nothing was learned from that. Not saying we would've won considering how bad a night Brewer and Loeffler had, but this could serve as a blueprint for teams on how handle our D. Sadly, I don't think we are done losing this year....
Marquise WIlliams at UNC was a running QB and we handled him just fine.
Bud Foster Defense asks a lot from its players, and demands everyone play their assignments. When they don't, stuff breaks down big. Chase Williams was doing a great job playing his assignments last night. Once he got injured, the Freshman who replaced him simply wasn't up to the task, that's when the gates started opening up for those QB runs.
EDIT: Also Rakeem Cato never beat us one time. He was completely shut down in 2011, and shut out in the 2nd half of the 2013 game. He ran for 79 yds against us last year, which while not great wasn't exactly the disaster you imply. Bud Foster Defenses do just fine with mobile QBs, just when it breaks down, just like on big passing plays, it breaks down big. So, that's what you remember.
^This. People don't realize how important Chase Williams is to our defense.
Handled him just fine as he put up over 100 yards on the ground against us? I'm missing how we handled him...because we won?
Pretty much, since "Bud Foster always gets beat by running QBs."
Next highest yardage total in that UNC game was 19 (and that was by the backup QB). Could it be that, just maybe, Bud wanted him to run himself ragged?
I started wondering that last night. Voytik has some cojones, though. After that shot from Dadi, I thought his night of running the ball was done. Proved me wrong. Generally, if the D can force the QB to keep the ball and keep taking shots, the worse his decision-making becomes. It's often the strategy against GT. Crash the gaps and get the DE right into the QB's face, forcing him to keep by taking away the pitch. Then a LB or DT annihilates him. Sometimes it works, other times a tough QB beats you.
Dadi Nicolas pulled his best James Gayle impersonation and ran about 4 yards past the QB on a couple rushes, opening up a gigantic hole for the QB to run through. I hate putting blame on just one guy/position group, but if those ends stop rushing past the QB, it's a much different story (see the Sugar Bowl win from 2011).
I'm glad someone pointed this out. I see Dadi run him self out of the screen every game. Much more than 4 yards. Every time I wonder where the hell is he going. If he learns to collapse the pocket more consistently instead of speed rushing his way 12 yards behind the line of scrimmage, I will jump on the Dadi Train that everyone else seems to be on.
I said it on another post, and I'll say it again... Defense did their job last night. Nothing more to be said.
Exactly and if it weren't for the JC fumble they would have likely given up only 14 points. I don't see how anyone can blame them.
I would like to take this opportunity to apologize for what I see to be the clear reason for our struggles. Prior to the four games we've won, I've had at least one alcoholic beverage. For every loss, I've started watching the game with a BAC of .00. Last night, I had to work a middle school football game and didn't get to Champs to start watching the game until after halftime. Despite my best efforts (read: drinking heavily), our offensive improvement was not enough to overcome my sobriety/their lack of execution to start the game. My sincerest apologies, won't happen again.
Why didn't you just drink at the middle school game?
They kind of frown on refs doing that.
Nah, that's definitely not true. NFL & PAC10 officials welcome it and that's the cream of the crop. Next time do it for Hokie nation
To be fair, they didn't even give us a locker room. Hard to sneak a swig when you're standing at midfield for halftime.
pfft... that's easy. strap on a camelbak for "hydration"
You can't kick yourself like that. I completed all necessary JuJu procedures last night. I sat in the correct spot on the couch, I started watching the game at the exact right moment, I exiled all the appropriate personnel from the living room, I had on my lucky t-shirt, underwear, and socks, and I clutched the correct set of keys, and ONLY shook them on defensive 3rd downs.
We just have to face reality. Heinz Field is the evil empire of bad karma for the Hokies.
Hence why I made my suggestion in an earlier article that we hire a witch doctor and sacrifice a wahoo. Surely that would defeat whatever evil spell lies upon that cursed place.
28 Days until the debut of the Buzz.....who has more wins by the end of November? Football or Basketball?(Basketball only has a max of six games in November)
Football by far.
ahhhh, we're not getting anywhere. Lefty needs to changes...Bucky for QB 'Nuff said..in Bucky we trust
After all that has been said so far, I have this to say about our season:
Well, Pitt.
One common thread I'm seeing here appears to be the following implicit assumption:
Coaching change = better team.
As a Washington fan, let me just point out that change for change's sake is not inherently a good thing, and in fact can be a disaster.
Not saying your opinions are wrong, but do try and moderate them with the understanding that finding a new coach does not necessarily mean significant improvement.
But we fired Shanahan and look at how much better the team is now!
Shanahan, the coach of a #9 offense (#5 rushing) is fired, but Haslett, the coach of the #18 defense is retained.
Granted the offense has improved #6 and the defense has improved #14, but the team seems to be worse. It seems unfathomable that a very good offense (near great) and average defense would be 1-5, but -9 TO margin (ranked 32) explains everything.
NFL is a different game. If you're a good recruiter you have a good shot at success in college football. Hence the Nick Sabans and the Spurriers.
I made a account so I could say this.
Michael Brewer is not a good quarterback. Period. He does not have the arm strength or accuracy to throw an accurate pass more than 20 yards. That Bucky catch and Ford catch were all on the recievers, they jumped and dived to get at a ball that should've been much closer to them. He continuously overthrew or underthrew passes last night, and this isn't a one time thing. He did the same thing against Western Michigan and Georgia Tech.
He still makes horrible decisions. That interception that was called back is still an INT to me. It was a horrible, horrible throw, we just got lucky there.
Ohio State was a fluke now that I look back. Our defense is what kept us in the game and eventually won it for us, and the stars aligned for our offense, but after rewatching some parts of the game Brewer got very lucky throwing into coverage that could've resulted in more INTs than completions.
He doesn't have the strength or mobility of Logan Thomas to be a threat on the ground either, so that just puts extra pressure on him and the recievers.
Don't get me wrong, there are a ton of other problems with the team, and a lot of those problems didn't make the job any easier for Brewer (horrible playcalling, paper thin O line), and he does show flashes of brilliance, but when he did have opportunities to make big plays he never performed except for the final drive, which by then was way too little way too late.
Leg for the comment and welcome. I don't entirely agree with you, though. Last night, Brewer looked terrible. I'll give you that. But against GT and ECU he had something insane like 70+% completion percentage, and consistently moved the chains. He just had those couple of spectacular meltdowns per game. Last night wasn't really indicative of that - he seemed gun-shy and timid. Maybe that's a result of those meltdowns and trying to avoid them. I don't know. Maybe he's not correctable. It's certainly frustrating though, because it almost seems like he's a good one, except for those times when he isn't.
I'm not oppossed to maybe seeing what Motley's got, but I'm not sure we can just write Brewer off either. I'm not sure how much we really have behind him (I've got no faith in Leal after the Sun Bowl and getting beaten out by Motley in the Spring). If Motley can't go though, we might be stuck riding Brewer's arm for the rest of the year and the rollercoaster ride that that entails. Having not seen Motley in practice everyday, I can't make that call, but I really hope the coaches are at least trying to get him some reps so they can make a change if they need to.
Thanks for the leg!
You have completely valid points, his comp % was great the past few games, however his poor decisions directly impacted the outcome of the game for Georgia Tech at least. All of his brilliance is overshadowed by one or two poor decisions. His stats yesterday aren't that bad actually if you look at it, but he missed so many crucial opportunities to make big plays that don't show on that stat line that could've completely changed the game.
I competely agree that we shouldn't write Brewer off. He's the best we've got, even if it might not be super great he's our only hope right now, I don't think the others have it in them yet. We'll just have to trust him to learn from his mistakes and we need to trust Beamer to start being harder on his staff (especially Loefller).
Exactly. If I'm the staff, I'm getting Motley reps and seeing what he can do in practice. If Brewer's issues continue, then you've got an alternative.
I said something to this effect on another thread about Brewer's interceptions and/or inconsistency: I wasn't too worried about either one at the time, but I said that if it continued through GT, UNC, Miami, and BC, then I'd be sitting him and getting Ford/Durkin/Motley experience (obviously investing in Leal doesn't do anything for the future). If we aren't in a position to make a run for the division after those games, I'm getting a new player some time under center so we'll be better prepared for the future.
2016 is the year we've generally been saying is the year we should target for bigger hopes, whether that's the divison/conference/whatever. But we'll be starting a new QB in 2016 if Brewer is the QB this year and next. If we aren't in a position to achieve any of our initial goals (div/conf) after the BC game, I'm working our next quarterback into the mix.
This translates to the following: If GT wins the next two weeks and we lose either BC or Miami, then I'm officially off the Brewer bandwagon and reopening my bandwagon recruitment.
I don't understand how Leals sun bowl performance was such a deal breaker for everyone when Brewer has had three equivalent performances this season alone...and that's with taking all the first team reps and knowing your the starter every week.
Leal has several things counting against him in my book:
1 - The sun bowl performance. It was generally dreadful, and not better than anything Brewer has done this year. 12/25 for 130 yards, two picks, and no tds is not equivalent to Brewer's worst perfomances this year. It's not even close.
2 - He was definitely beaten out by Motley in the spring. He had been here for 3 years, and Motley was noticeably better than him by all accounts.
3 - The staff had such little faith in him that they got Brewer to transfer here. If they'd thought he had shown them an ability to be an effective qb, they wouldn't have needed Brewer, and they would not have seemed so certain that Brewer would win the starting job upon arriving.
4 - Leal is a senior. Even if he were to go out there and light it up, we'd have to go through this whole thing again next year. I think next year could be a really good year if we get all our ducks in a row. If we can settle on either Brewer (assuming he gets the kinks worked out) or Motley (if he proves to be a more reliable option), they can lead us next year and we can hit the ground running when anOSU comes to town. That should be a priority.
Leal came in as a back up against a good team, and his performance was similar to multiple performances Brewer has put up this year. That's what I don't get. Leal has never been given the opportunity to show what he can do with even one week of first team practice against an opponent. At this point, I don't see where the harm is.
It's all the same arguments. One more year of Brewerr than Leal? Well if that's what were concerned about then let's go with Ford or Durkin. If this year is a wash anyway, let's get some experience for a guy who will be here longer than one or even two seasons, right?
Overall I'm against this notion that once you decide who the QB is he's the guy every week no matter what his actual performance on the field is. I feel like every starting spot at every position shoUld have to be earned every week.
Perhaps it's just me.
Which of Brewer's performances were as bad as the Sun Bowl? He's had some very bad plays (the GT picks come to mind), but nothing like the disaster that was the Sun Bowl.
As to the year of players... This year is mostly a lost cause at this point. The coastal is likely out of reach. We're a middle-of-the-pack ACC team again. Next year is a blank slate (one, I might add, that we should be returning a lot of talent for). Any decisions we make regarding the roster should be made with that in mind. We should be looking at what gives us the best chance to win it all then.
If starting Ford or Durkin would be the answer there, then I'd say trot them out. I sort of doubt it would be though, since they're both true freshmen right now. I'd want to be absolutely sure they're the guys too, since we'd be burning a redshirt. Decisions made in lost seasons should be made with an eye towards the future, and I doubt burning a redshirt would help in that regard. But if they were tearing it up like Vick circa '99 in practice, I'd have no problem with them seeing the field, since it'd be doubtful they'd stay four more years anyhow. Again, I doubt that's the case, but wanted to be clear.
And my whole post was about potentially having to change qbs, so not sure what your point is. I just don't think Leal should be the one we change to. If it were between mediocrity with Brewer or mediocrity with Leal, I'd stick with Brewer, because he might at least grow into the role and develop for the future. But I really think Motley needs to get more reps during the week in case Brewer doesn't improve.
But "the future" with Brewer is only one more season than it is with Leal, that's not really a whole lot more "future".
If we're punting this season and playing for the future, put in someone with an actual future beyond a year. If we're paying for now then give Leal a shot to see what he can do because why not at this point? That's my issues people want to use both arguments against starting him at the same time and it's inconsistent.
If you think we've got a chance at winning it all next year, then you don't worry about the one after that. You go all-in for it.
It's more the fact that a four year guy can't take the reigns in camp so that a guy who transfers in during August gets the start instead.
What does that say about Leal?
that he must be leally leally bad ..
I'll see my self out
Wait, so Leal is a four year guy who can't take the job because he isn't good, but 4th year college student Brewer is a "freshman in the system?"
Feels like an inconsistent unit of measurement here.
Please, find my post where I referenced Brewer as a freshman in the system.
Better yet, please tell me how you don't seem to realize that Leal, who has been here during Loeffler's entire tenure, had every chance to win the starting job and lost it to a guy who has been here for three months. Please, explain to me how Leal is still better than Brewer.
I don't know that Leal is better than Brewer, but I also don't know that he's not, like you all seem to assume. That's my only point. Mark Leal has never been given a chance to prove it either way....
And at this point, I don't see the harm with giving him a shot to prove it either way. There's absolutely nothing to lose at this point.
There is something to lose - development for other players. What is gained by putting Leal in? If you're saying the season is already lost at this point, then even if your experiment is a success (which, again I really doubt would happen), we're still not winning the coastal. And now we have to decide between Brewer, Motley, Ford and Durkin next year, and have no new data on any of them.
I'm oppossed to making a change to make a change (what I think the Leal switch would be). Even if he's slightly better, it wouldn't be significant enough to make it worth it.
Have you read anything I've said? Mark Leal was here during the spring, no? And the year before? Was Michael Brewer?
This is a simple fact, I'm not sure how you're missing it. Mark Leal was the senior, returning QB coming into this season. He got 1st team reps through the spring. Michael Brewer came here in AUGUST and won the starting job.
The above statement is about as explicit as I can be in stating that MARK LEAL HAD A CHANCE TO WIN THE STARTING JOB AND DIDN'T.
That is why we believe Mark Leal is not as good as Brewer. Because he had a huge head start and STILL LOST THE JOB.
I have read everything you said just fine. I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying, but do disagree with your conclusions.
That said, today when I responded to people who disagreed with me, I did so with a much less aggressive demeanor than you are now, and was admonished for being condescending and contributing to a negative tenor of the thread as a whole.
I feel like you could make your point without all the caps, bolds, and condescending asides. The ability to have discussions where people disagree without all that stuff is what separates this forum from others.
Agree. No one needs to shout. Emphasis is one thing, YELLING TO GET YOUR POINT ACROSS is another.
Everyone should remember that, especially during disagreements, THERE IS NO NEED FOR STUFF LIKE THIS TO MAKE IT SEEM LIKE SOMEONE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND.
When I say Mark Leal has been given a chance, and you say things like this, it makes me feel like you're not getting my point. Sorry for "Shouting".
When I say these things, I mean after actually getting first team reps in practice and then competing against a D1 opponent in a meaningful situation.
Somewhere where everyone has the ability to evaluate and there's less specious "trust the coaches" type conclusions.
He's had one half of meaningful action as a back up and it wasn't great. But overall it wasn't that much worse than our appointed starter has done all season. So give him a shot in season after a week of legitimate prep and see what he can do. What can it hurt?
It could hurt their chances of winning that game if Leal is a worse QB than Brewer. I just fail to see how, if after two years and all spring, Leal was not as good as Brewer, one week of practice before a game with 1st string reps is going to make him a better QB than Brewer.
As far as everyone having the ability to evaluate instead of "trusting the coaches"? Well, unfortunately no matter what evaluation you or any of us may perform, it's only the coaches who have the power to make the decisions, so I'm not sure why we have to get Leal into a game so the fans can evaluate him.
Leal competed and lost the starting job in the spring, after Motley got hurt Leal competed and lost the starting job AGAIN in the fall.... time to get off the Leal train, it's not gonna happen (barring injury)
It seems that we have gone away from the blue collar, lunch pail mentality and that's my biggest disappointment about this team for the past few years. I used to be proud of them even when they lost because they worked hard and went all out. What happened to that attitude? I see that in Georgia Southern (my husband and son's alma mater). They go into every game fully expecting to win because the coaches fully expect them to win. They give 100% until the game is over and never give up. If you make mistakes you are going to be disciplined and if you make too many mistakes you're on the bench. When strategy needs to be changed at the half it is done. They have succeeded in their first year in FBS with a new coach and a major changes in the offense. They do their job because they know what is expected so when they lose the fans are still proud. How can we get that back? End of rant.
Summarizing my thoughts from last night:
I think what bothers me the most isn't that we lost - its that I expected it, and I'm expecting a loss most of the time we take the field. I've lost hope, and I don't think anything I mentioned above is going to change until a major coaching move is made.
I have to strongly agree. I just see a constant trend of the car headed off the cliff and at some point feel like you cant blame the wheels and the engine but rather the driver.
End of fortune cookie analogy.