This was posted this morning by Andrea Adelson with ESPN.
"As bad as it has been for Virginia Tech, the Hokies have never before been 1-3 in conference play, calling into question not only why this team has failed to progress, but how much progress can definitively be made as long as Beamer is in charge."
http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/76264/miami-alive-in-coastal-after...
Yeah Yeah I know most here in the Key Play do not think too much of Andrea. But my point is this: after three years of mediocrity, and if anything getting worse, not better, some in the national media are beginning to speculate that Beamer may be on limited time.
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It's a business. Getting smoked on a Thursday night at home, on ESPN, after working hard to get Thursday night games scheduled, after trying hard to sell tickets...is not good for your brand. Whit is probably not sleeping well.
We've already replaced everyone on offense and our offense still sucks, and after showing a great offensive attack that beat Ohio State we've regressed back to the possession based offensive attack that just tries to dominate TOP and shorten games, regardless of what the opponent is doing or the deficit we're facing.
I'm still befuddled on how we went from an offense that was innovative and moved the ball, and used the TEs in the passing game, and was able to connect on tough 3rd and long situations through the air to one that is as overly reliant on the running game as it is. I don't think it is a coincidence the playcalling changed the second Shane got in Loeffler's face during the WMU game, and I don't think its a coincidence we're now trying to run an offense centered around the play of the unit Frank Beamer's son is coaching.
We are at our best when we run an up-tempo offense that gets to the LOS and runs a play quickly, to hell with the TOP. For the first few games of the year, we had a lot of success in running this offense, including knocking off the #8 team in the nation. Then, little Beamer gets upset that his running game isn't being showcased and suddenly, we haven't seen the up-tempo game since. I do not believe in coincidences and this situation reeks.
You think this is Shane's fault? Wow. If Loeffler isn't good at his job because Shane (supposedly) got in his face at WMU, what does that say about Loeffler?
It just looks to me like Loeffler is out of tricks.
Or that Shane went to daddy and daddy agreed to his demands, forcing the hand of his OC.
If that is what's happening, I can't see Moorehead, Searels, or Loeffler sticking around after this season. Loeffler's rep might be so bad right now that he can't find better work, but there's absolutely nothing stopping Moorehead and Searels from getting work.
I'd be cool with Moorehead being OC. He's gonna get there eventually. Why not here?
I'm actually giving Lefty the benefit of the doubt and hope he works out. But next season is it for him (and probably Beamer). If it's not a successful season, then I just don't see Beamer having one and recruiting will have died on the vine. As for Amo as OC, I'd prefer he get some more seasoning before jumping straight up the chain like that, but under the right H.C. it could work. The HC would have to be an offensive minded coach and a former OC though I think.
Edit: I also think that the recruiting results this year will have a pretty big influence on what happens during the next two seasons. If Frank whiffs on Dalton, Settle, AND Sweat it's probably not a good sign. Even more crucial will be o-line recruiting to include any JUCO's.
I'd never thought of that. But upon further consideration you're right. Why the hell not? Biggest argument I can think of is experience but the work he's done with our receivers has been outstanding. Definitely wouldn't mind seeing him take on some more responsibility for us. Honestly he's the one I'm scared to lose the most. I'd hate to lose Searles, too, because 4 O-line coaches in 4 years would be *shudders*. But above all else I want Moorehead to stay here.
It says that he is smart enough to figure out the lay of the land. Its obvious to one and all that CFB is trying to groom Shane as his eventual successor. He goes from Special Teams coach and recruiting coordinator at USCe to RB coach and Associate Head Coach at VT. From my perspective, it appears that CFB will back his son over OC Loeffler. Get real. I've had to bite my tongue in certain situations at work because I work at a small company where a similar situation exist. Luckily, the people I work with are compotent at their jobs so its not much of an issue, but I still know there are lines you don't cross.
I don't remember seeing anything about Shane getting in Loeffler's face during the WMU game. I must have just missed it but was there anything written about it on TKP that I can go back and read?
I think Alum07 is hyperbolizing here. Shane did make a case to Loeffler to run the ball more. It was mentioned in a post from Bitter, and the quote came straight from Shane. He told Loeffler to give the backs more of a chance, then told his guys not to make him look like an idiot. None of us was in the locker room to know what was said, but to try to make it into some big confrontation is just unwarranted.
And many people were pretty happy when we started pounding the rock in the second half...
Might not have been a big confrontation, but the offense has been in a sharp decline since that moment. Before then, we were an up tempo offense that was able to move the ball at will. We weren't dominating TOP (or even worried about it) but we were getting yards, and eventually the points were going to start coming through. Really, the big thing holding us back was Brewer's penchant for throwing bad INTs.
Ever since that discussion where Shane pulled the string to get the ball run more, the offense has been on a completely different trajectory. We quickly devolved into an offense that runs more than it passes, tries to establish the run early and often (not adjusting when its not working) has eliminated any semblance of a passing game that tries to get guys open in the middle of the field. Rarely tries to get the ball in the hands of our talented TEs downfield. We devolved to the point where our passing game last night, much like it was in 2012, is overly reliant on the screen game.
I don't believe in coincidences. I don't think its a coincidence we have seen such a drastic change in offensive philosophy from what we had before that meeting to after. I also don't think its a coincidence that the unit we're now stubbornly trying to make effective is run by our head coach's son.
You're just seeing what you want to see. You want this to be Shane's fault. That's fine, this mess is everyone's fault.
But you are remembering our offense before WMU as better than it was. It wasn't good. We were not really all that great against OSU, they actually had more yards than we did by a few. We looked good in an emergency situation against ECU when they went into prevent. Pretty good against GT, but their defense is awful. Good first half vs. UNC.
But that's literally considering it drive-by-drive. And in this day and age in offense, that's horrible. People are scoring points left and right with really bad talent. UNC is giving up an avg of 43 ppg. 43! In an era where everyone is scoring, we aren't one halftime speech away. We aren't an under performing, maybe hurt QB away. We aren't a few injured RB's away. We aren't a disaster OL away. We aren't young WR's away. We are fundamentally rotten to the core. That's on Frank. That's on Loeffler. And thats on every offensive position coach (even Moorehead's guys aren't getting open).
There wasn't one moment that our offense "got bad." We've sucked all year. Sucked last year with the statistically best QB in the history of the school. Sucked the year before that too. And I don't see the QB or RB talent on the roster or coming to bail us out again.
Ah that makes more sense now. Thanks for clarifying.
This is just a stupid comment all around.
EVERY offense strives for balance and early in the season we had it. Since the Ohio State game we have not been able to establish our run game. It espically struggled when Malleck was out.
Our offensive line absolutely sucks. We can't block long enough for a big pass play and we can't run block.
My one complaint is we bairly ever run from undercenter. It really doesn't help our RBs get up to speed. We need to run the ball better and running from a shotgun is not the answer.
I don't care what ESPN has to say. They are there just to drum up controversy since they have nothing better to do. Quite frankly, CFB should coach until he retires and not forced like the FSU controversy. It's the least we can do as a school and fanbase.
With that being said, I sure hope he isn't trying to hang on too long for his son Shane to take over the head coaching job cause Shane hasn't proven jack shit as a RB coach. I would hope to have Bud to take over HC with Torrian Gray taking over as defensive coordinator. The year in and year out consistent defense that Bud has lead makes me to believe he could help stabilize our offensive identity with Loeffler.
IMO, you're wrong. No deserves the "right" to leave on their own terms, especially when the product on the field has progressed downward for how many years? I don't know how old you are but I've been in my job for 27 years (I have had different assignments) I've done my job well above average getting multiple recognition awards etc. But if I go multiple years with average or below average performance do you think my superiors will just say "Well, he's done an excellent job for 27 years, let's just turn a blind eye on his now subpar work and let him leave on his own terms"? Of course not, it's a business and I have to continue to perform at or above the level I have to keep my employment. College FB is a business too.
Exactly right. In fact it's probably CFB's knowledge of job security and sense of comfort that has lead to what we see on the field today. The sense of fire and urgency needs to come from the top down in any organization.
If it was a business decision then why did we sign him to another extension until 2019? I was just hoping to avoid the fiasco that was at FSU a few years back AND to show them what it means to be classy. But I guess we've become sluts to money and winning.
He was signed to the extension for recruiting so that teams cannot use the "stability" case to recruits.
This x100000000 and I hope everybody reads this.
I don't think everybody here understands that the football team is just as much as a business as any other business out there
This is definitely true for people in executive positions of corporations. When you have millions of shareholders with high expectation, you are expected to do the job as well as the day you built it. I think head coaching for teams with millions of fans is very similar.
That said. I am willing to give Beamer another chance at another OC to get this in the right direction. I don't believe Beamer is the crux of the problem, and I believe he can still be a great head coach with the right pieces in place.
"Quite frankly, CFB should coach until he retires and not forced like the FSU controversy. It's the least we can do as a school and fanbase."
1. This is a performance based profession like any other job, if you have someone not performing to standard you need to find someone who will before the organization suffers. Beamer did build this program, but that doesn't necessarily give him the right to tear it down as well.
2. I bet Florida State doesn't regret what they did with Bowden one bit. They may have caught some short term flak for it, but it appears to have been the correct move and they have benefitted from it.
Also the problem with Bowden was that I'm pretty sure he said at least twice that he had only one more year coaching and then when that year was up he'd continue and FSU was degrading. So evenutually they said enough and pushed him out. If he had hung it up when he originally said he woudl none of that would have happened.
That is exactly what happened. Bobby said he wanted one more year. Twice. The first time all of Bowden's blind disciples screamed for him to stay, and the F$U AD buckled to the pressure. The second time, all of Bowden's blind disciples screamed for him to stay, and the F$U AD finally manned up and let Bobby go. The wails of agony were loud & long in F$U land, as they were certain that the program would NEVER be as good because 'Bobby built the program, Bobby IS the program, Bobby is even the face of the university'. Bobby Bowden's last five years were 8-5, 7-6, 7-6, 9-4, 7-6.
Five years later, F$U won another national championship, equaling the highest level attained under Bobby Bowden.
Analogy.
Bowden also brought not one, but two national championships to Florida State... and they still ousted him. So, why are we concerned about giving Frank the grace of leaving on his own terms and bring the ship down with him?
This brought up a point in my mind. I've always viewed training/development/building something as a process designed to make it so that the person/place/thing that you're training/developing/building will no longer need you anymore.
Not that they don't want you anymore, not that they don't appreciate what you've done for them/there/that at all, just that you've built something that can stand on it's own. Once it gets to that point, there's nothing more that you can do. Sounds like a good reason why Bowden and Paterno eventually stopped coaching and became program figureheads. Sounds like a job for an assistant athletic director in charge of the football program.
Because many people fear change FAR more than they appreciate the opportunity for growth. Many people would prefer to stagnate and wither than to change, even if the change is beneficial.
ESPN doesn't really need to drum up anything. The recent performances of a Frank Beamer coached team kind of writes the story for them. You could say teams because as it spans beyond more than this years team.
Actually, the announcers last night went pretty easy on us, considering how badly we played on both sides of the ball. It's like they were as stunned as our fan base was about the whole deal.
I def agree and had originally had a similar statement written about how they could have been a lot worse.
He should be questioned. There are Hokie fans that have started questioning him, and anyone not wearing orange and maroon glasses certainly are.
We aren't a good team. In fact, we're dreadful to watch. I thought we showed promise early in the year and we have gotten worse as the season has progressed.
As much as I want Frank Beamer to retire on a high note, winning a prestigious bowl game and maybe a National Championship I just don't see it happening. We have been extremely puzzling since the 2012 Sugar Bowl and Frank and Company haven't seemed to have their bearings since that game.
With that being said, this is just an opinion and this is just the internet. If Frank doesn't think he can turn this team around by whenever it is he wants to retire then he needs to retire at the end of this season. If we continue this downward spiral it will be incredibly hard to make a hire when the time comes, even with Whit Babcock. We've had coaches like Chad Morris speak up and say they would love to coach Virginia Tech. I'm sure there's more that I can't think of/remember but three years ago people would be lined up in droves to coach this team. If Beamer can't turn this around then we will be looking at a situation where attendance is pitiful, recruits are turned away, and fandom is in the dumps. That's not a recipe for hiring a coach.
Kyle Tucker said it best:
I love Frank, I love the Hokies, and I love The Key Play. I just don't want things to get any uglier.
in response to KT's tweet
Coach Beamer has better problem than worrying about Andrea , Heather or ESPN. The coaching staff has a sinking ship to right. There is enough talent on the roster to at least go to a respectable bowl game.
Frank is now a liability on the recruiting trail. Other coaches are pointing to his age as evidence that he won't be around to see the full careers of recruits. These coaches are 100% correct. Why would a recruit want to play somewhere when there is going to be coaching turmoil shortly?
When you combine that with the fact that Frank is not much of a recruiter whatsoever in his own right, you have a serious problem.
It is time to cut the shit. Make a clean break and start the healing process. It is only going to get worse before it gets better.
I have nothing against Andrea. I do, however, have a LOT against this unfortunate combination of two X chromosomes:
get that giraffe back to the zoo, please.
ESPN questioning Beamer? Well, I have been questioning ESPN for many years now.
Chris Fowler @cbfowler 1m1 minute ago
Always respected VaTech program.
But I'm a longtime Metallica fan.
Use of "Enter Sandman" should stop until home dominance is restored.
I've never tried to embed a tweet, but:
I agree. I think this is a good idea. We should start this immediately.
Seriously? Man, do I ever disagree. If VT suddenly stops Sandman, it sends a terrible message to everyone.
To the fans: we no longer care about trying to pump you up, make you excited, or make you feel like you should root for the team. Pack it up, everyone, nothing to see here.
To the team: well, you're just not worthy of us even trying. Maybe you can earn it back by being better, but who knows. Get yourselves excited for the game, because we're not going to let the fans try to get you going at the beginning of the game.
Sorry, not buying it. Giving up our entrance for any reason would be a white flag. I'm upset with the way the season is going, but I would not do this.
Giving up 'Enter Sandman' doesn't mean giving up entrance music. I don't think we should give it up, either. If/when that happens, if the replacement entrance song was good, I'm okay with that. I don't really see that happening, though. At least not as a reaction to poor W-L records.
I love Sandman, but I'm OK with change if the school can come up with something fun. Fowler's comments just strike me as "you're not worthy" and/or the classic "beatings will continue until morale improves."
He's just doing his job, ginning up conversation. Apparently, he's been effective.
Yup, looks like it.
When the D wasn't playing well, Bud took the lunch pail away and made them earn it back. Why not take Sandman away.
A coaching tool is one thing, I just view Sandman (or in general, some type of great opening) as central to the fan experience. The fans have done nothing wrong and have been very dedicated this season (and by many reports, more intense than we've seen in a few years), despite the problems. I am of the opinion that we should not axe a tradition that the fans enjoy because of the team's performance.
I see your point. I don't view Sandman as a fan thing over a team thing, though. I view it as an "our" thing. Let's face it, we, collectively, as fans haven't been the best fans we can be. The team also isn't the best team it could be. Maybe it's time for all of us to reflect a little, and maybe the connection between Sandman and the Terrordome isn't as strong as it used to be, because of both the team and the fans aren't bringing it week in and week out.
Good perspective. Leg.
I've been grappling with this since Thursday night. What will change? What do we need? Obviously, if the team simply starts winning, that cures all ills. And the fans were nuts to start the Miami game, and through the first defensive series, but then energy started to wane. Contrast that with Clemson '06 or BC '07. Those crowds never gave up, win or lose. My buddy and I ran up and down the bleachers screaming at people to get crazy when Clemson was in timeouts, and you know what, everyone did. They might have been saying, "those guys are crazy," but they got into it. Maybe that's just not happening any more. Maybe it's a chicken vs. egg thing (are fans crazy because the team wins or does the team win because they feel the crowd?), but something has to give on one side or another. I just don't know that taking away Sandman is the way to accomplish it.
If fans wanted to send a "message", would not jumping for a game or two be effective?
Great. Now Fowler will be labeled a 'Hokie Hater' by the paranoid, joining Herbstreit, Corso, Dinich, & all other media people who have said something less than glowing about VT football.
I know that was likely a TIC comment, but combining that with the Adelson column, it makes clear something that I hadn't considered previously. This has - likely because of the national audiences the past two weeks of losses - moved beyond just being a Hokie fan base issue. It's now onto the national scene. Sure, not in a big way, because we didn't fall from the heights. We slid from them over three years. But still... when was the last time you heard media be so dismissive of Frank's program? Even the 'local' guys like Teel and to a lesser extent, Bitter had columns that began to step away from the usual.
That is quite the shift in the dynamic. Now, shoot ahead to the UVa game. They've played us close for the last 2-3 years. If we lose that one, on TV, I think there would be a lot of boosters that would be more than a little disappointed.
This next month is going to be interesting.
I dunno, guys. Clearly whatever is happening now is not working. But I have the sinking feeling that head coaches are like the Lernaean Hydra--If you kill one Frank Beamer, two Brady Hokes will take his place.
if we hire 2 brady hokes. or even one brady hoke to replace the One True King of Blacksburg, i'm transferring to a different school.
So in 6-8 years from now, after Frank has retired, what do you expect from the next head coach? Because as much as some people are afraid to admit - Frank Beamer won't coach here indefinitely. There has to come SOME day, when a new face is on the sideline. You expect every coach that follows Frank to fail? You really think the program Frank has built is so weak that it is toxic after him?
I'd like to think that Beamer built a program strong enough to grow into the future. I think that whoever replaces him will succeed. That won't make Frank less successful, it will prove he had a good program. I can't understand how fearful people are of the change, whenever that day comes.
I was under the impression that this thread was about forcing Frank out early, not his retirement. I don't think the program is so toxic that another coach can't succeed. But I do think that the program is in a precarious place right now, and I could see a new hire being far more detrimental to the program than letting Frank finish his contract. I am not afraid of the change, I just think you have to be considerably more cautious when you're talking about canning a Hall of Fame coach. It's a lot different from the James Johnson scenario.
The point was that Frank will stop coaching some day. Whether forced out or on his own decision. Far too many people on message boards somehow have the notion that nobody but Frank can lead the team. They fear change. I've already presented the logical rationale on these boards multiple times why Frank will coach at least until the end of the 2016 season. That doesn't seem to salve the fear that many have of the inevitable change.
We all sat back & watched the Bobby Bowden era end very badly. We all sat back and watched the JoePa era end very badly. Yet many Hokie fans learned nothing from that, they still think only one man can coach the team to success. Right now the level of 'success' that Frank is coaching this team is - five straight losses in Lane to FBS teams, 10-10 record in the last 2-1/2 years in the ACC, 4-4 record this season. Yet some folks are convinced it would automatically get worse, just because someone different was in charge. Why? Their reasoning? Never given.
I'm not calling for Frank to be forced out this season or next. All I'm doing is pointing out the absolutely ridiculous premise that so many have that Frank cannot be replaced successfully.
What do we do now?
Blame the coaching staff?
Or most of the players that can't buy a legal drink?
Do we resent the fact that we put all of our blood and money into the program as fans?
Or do we rise out our of hell together?
Through the hardest times in my life... the only part to lean on was the Hokies.
I grew up with them.
I cried.
& I flourished.
I might be new to The Key Play...
But not to Hokie Nation.
The only way out of hell is together.
Amen, special ops guys think similarly.