After they stopped throwing a screen every other play. That's the most frustrating part about this offense, we see something that doesn't work and they keep trying it, and stay away from what does work until the 4th quarter.
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Yep, I actually think this is one of our best offensive performances and we showed how we can move the ball. I just have to hope that inspires a bit of confidence and we can consistently do it. Some play calls were head-scratchers, and sometimes the execution simply failed, but there was a lot of good that happened on offense today.
And Sam Rogers continues to be my hero. There is no quit in that guy.
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He was hands down the best player on the field. His block on that first drive, I think it was number 99, to give Brewer enough time for the big gainer down the sideline was awesome. Fullback vs. Defensive Tackle and it wasn't even close.
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who cares? For someone who comments on things saying that (insert topic here) doesn't need its own forum topic, you sure like to reply to things that don't need comments. I know this is ironic but if you get down voted, move on/ignore and like I said, who cares.
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Because it's my job as Moderator to point out things that are contrary to the culture here. I call out inappropriate downvotes on other people, and I'm pretty sure this is the first time I've done so on my own behalf. I believe in the correct use of the requirements Joe has put on all of us, and I will highlight misuse, as I have been asked to do. For those who downvoted me, I know they weren't deserved, and maybe people think I'm bitching unnecessarily. But as I have stated several times before, because the turkey leg count algorithm has changed, (1) simply posting does not add to your count, so if you don't like the fact that someone commented, just move on and (2) your count now is actually an indicator of quality within the community, so using downvotes counts. I see no reason why anything I have said is contrary to the Community Guidelines. In fact, my first post was rather positive and I was truly just confused. Random -1's that show up are usually mistakes and yes, we all move on, but when a couple start showing up it is usually a product of abuse of the system and subsequent herd mentality. If people want to get cute and keep downvoting haphazardly, or if they just don't like me, well that's what they're going to do and they'll eventually get banned because voting is logged.
And yes, I stand by my statement (at the time) of the unnecessary new forum. When posted, it was a one-liner about Knowles staying in the end zone. It has subsequently been changed and there is meaningful discussion taking place there. But when it was posted, it made no sense to have its own forum.
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Well to be fair that offense is a substitute for the ground game... if our line can't block you gotta do something that represents a run game, and is quick enough to keep the defense on their heels. And prevents them from just dropping 8 into coverage like Pitt and Miami did. Loeffler is also handcuffed with play calling because our line can't block for more than 2 seconds and we were playing at the 1 yard line for three straight drives
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The offense looked better. Not as many penalties. No INT's. For one, I'm not really upset about the game. We learned that this team doesn't execute consistently and we've also learned that the potential to be a top 25 team in the future is there.
I have no expectations of this time for the rest of the year except that we simply continue to reduce our self-inflicted wounds and that the coaches ensure the team learns from their mistakes. It was time to recalibrate our expectations weeks ago, and I'm finally there.
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I agree the offense looked better than last Thursday, but I have to ask... could it really look much worse? I hope we continue the momentum and pray that we somehow beat UVA this year, I'm just not convinced a home loss to a 5-3 BC team shows potential to be a top 25 team in the future.
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haha. that is a fair question and my answer has to be "no". However, this offense looked kinda like it did against OSU for a good portion of the game and had we played like that all year, we'd probably be in a very different position right now.
i suppose for me, the game today isn't what solidified my optimistic outlook for the future. It's knowing that guys like Motuapuaka, I. Ford, Marshawn, Cam P, Ekanem, Chuck Clark, Bucky, and Wyatt will be around for a while. And...I think Loeffler can groom a QB to be an effective distributor and I like the fact that he's going to have some options.
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yea except for UNC is a passing team and we handled that pretty well after learning from ECU. UNC is 25th worst rushing team - Win
Duke is ranked 34th in rushing yards per game
Miami is 40th Loss
Pitt is 21st Loss
BC is 10th Loss
GT is 4th Loss
Duke doesnt rank high in passing yard per game the same way Pitt, GT, BC dont. Those 3 are rank worse than Duke, while Miami is only slightly higher in passing yards per game
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And you're wandering off point, my point is that I'll take 4 TDs and 2 FG attempts every game and be happy, if we do that and don't miss FGs against any of the teams you listed we win ALL OF THOSE GAMES, as 4x7=28 and 2x3=6 and 28+6 equals 34, and nobody has scored more than 33 against us all year
but I'm really done debating what sounds like a Tenn fan, have a nice day and good luck with the Chattanooga/Ark ST/Utah Sts of the world
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I'm downvoting this post (not jpoole) because I don't think there's any place for the mindset exhibited by this quote
but I'm really done debating what sounds like a Tenn fan, have a nice day and good luck with the Chattanooga/Ark ST/Utah Sts of the world
You can disagree with his argument but he's providing objective numbers to support why he thinks we'll struggle against Duke. However, this type of retort is uncalled for IMO.
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That's fine, and I probably should've explained myself better.. that was a carryover from another thread in which he was over and over again talking about Tenn recruiting, Tenn SOS, Tenn average rankings.. etc etc etc... none of which had anything to do with Duke or any other ACC team at all
And for the record I didn't downvote any of his comments if anyone was wondering
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You could say that about us and our 21 points in the 4th quarter after we changed to the more fast paced offense. Take out the 4th quarter and our offense was nothing to be proud of.
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I just seems that our D cannot stop anybody when it counts. They play great (especially the LBs) the whole game, but the last TD really killed us and it was 3rd and long. The offense did look better so I was happy about that. This game was very winnable, just another heart breaker in Lane.
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I was referring to this game, not the season but yeah, not so great, but solid outside a few plays. Just trying to look at the bright side of things and saw some of the younger guys make some plays, Clarke and AD specifically. Bonner got cracked on the first TD run so good play by BC TE and not sure if Bonner was out of position or not. I don't know where our safeties were on the last TD we gave up though. Other than those 2 plays, I thought the D played pretty solid.
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There was a play where he pancaked a guy, worked him over a little on the ground. Trainers had to come out for the guy. Teller was pumped up after the play. He played a little past the echo of the whistle.....Awesome!!!!
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I will get a ton of down votes for this and I don't care, it's time to voice my opinion! This coaching staff needs to go! Frank has lost it! Stanford should not be back on the team, I have inside knowledge of what the cause was, and no I will not divulge. There has been trouble between Whit and Frank! Bad weather was not the cause of the poor attendance! Some of the big time donors are starting to push for frank to be let go and I agree, we have been going downhill for the last 3-4 years! So like I said down vote me all you want had to voice my opinion and state some facts!
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If anyone downvotes for your opinion, they're in the wrong. Your post is pretty inflammatory, though. I understand if not, but is there anything else you can divulge? Do you have an inside source you can tell us about, anything about the trouble between Whit and Frank, how many donors want Frank gone? I've got mixed feelings about Frank at this point, but I don't have anything besides on field results to go off of. Can you share more about what led to your opinion?
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I understand what you mean by inflammatory, but as far as Stanford goes, I will just say this I work in law enforcement, so my career field should give you an idea but you know how things go I can't divulge things. As far as frank goes, I have been very attentive to his interviews the last few years and it just seems that he never wants to admit that the staff didn't do their job. Which in many of these games this year there have been calls that just make you think what are they doing. I coach little league football and know u don't call a screen pass when you need 8-10 yards, just one example. I hope this helps you some with my views on things.
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Thanks for responding, and I respect the silence due to law enforcement. Anything about the Whit-Frank relationship? That could be big going into the offseason
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I am interested in that aspect as well. On one hand I respect and don't want Frank to be forced out. ( Not yet at least) On the other hand, I do believe that he must be accountable for this cluster fuck right now. Whit is his boss so he has every right to get on his case if it makes an aspect of his department better in any way. Was it on the field issue or internal tidying that caused some rift?
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I coach little league football and know u don't call a screen pass when you need 8-10 yards, just one example.
I am shaking my head right now. A screen being called at the correct time is an effective play call. As a little league coach, you should know that the key to any play is player execution, fundamental skill, effort, and finally timing of the call. Great coaches taught me that of those criteria, the timing of the call is the least critical, because any appropriately designed play, executed correctly, should get the needed yardage. No play is designed to get X number of yards except for a two point play and a few red zone combination pass routes (due to the confined space.)
And just a general comment: the worst part of watching a loss isn't the on the field product. It is listening the the vitriol that gets spewed by people who clearly do not understand the game afterwards. Forgive me sir, but I am glad my child is not playing for you, because you clearly don't understand the game and what it takes to be successful in it.
Thank you for the forum. I am off to watch hockey.
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A screen being called at the correct time is an effective play call.
Yes thats exactly right and ole miss and Auburn proved that
but VT has been playing screen pass all game every game for the last who knows how many games
its an option to the offense to catch the defense but rarely VT does it good and in my opinion the post was as we all feel, that VT is over using it and not utilizing the team's true strengths of a fast paced no huddle offense and that once a game or quarter a screen pass may be good
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Note: On the Screen passes by VT today at least it looked like a sight call where Brewer and the wide outs would recognize the match up and run the play...I think it is suspicious that Byrne seems to be the wide out getting alot of those passes.
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Case in point: Mississippi State, 3rd and 14 with a chance to ice the game, perfectly executes a delayed screen to the running back with less than 3 minutes left and a TD lead in the 4th Q.
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Ole Miss threw a WR screen to Laquon Treadwell in the red zone that almost took a late lead. It was ruled an early fumble after he got taken down awkwardly (and was badly injured, rough to see), but he had the distance for a score.
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If you can't divulge things, then don't. I would prefer to either have information that I can be sure is reliable from a reliable source, or, I would like things to not be discussed. As it stands it feels like the spread of rumors.
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It never seems, if at all, CFB in a post game conference has owned up to his mistakes or just said we didn't play well, or so and so needs to make that play, etc. It always seems like its the same bs..... "we were one or two plays away and the game would of been different", "(insert team) will get afterya, they are a tough team", "Im proud of the way my team play, we just got unlucky on some plays." Im sure ill get down voted for this, but to me, its very concerning to hear this over and over again without CFB owning up to his own/teams mistake. I know he is trying to be upbeat, keep the moral up and try to look on the positive side too. It's just so damn frustrating sometimes. I'd rather him say (insert name/himself/position/coach/play) screwed up or that's what lost us the game. Thats just my $.02
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Frank has too much class to say anything negative about anybody to the public.
It is taken as a given he has assumed all fault and we'll work on it next week. It is taken as a given because that's what he's done since he got here.
Lee Corso may blame God for striking lightning on his car but, Frank would just say, "Well that God guy, he'll get after ya."
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Oh i know that, no doubt. But me personally, all the teams I played on, I would rather lose and have my coach tell me I sucked or missed on a play, this is what you should of done, etc. than have my team lose and the coach just look at the good things. Thats how teams get complacent imo. And yea, I know he probably tells them at practice the next week, but for me, getting blasted in front of the media would hit home for me harder, and make me want to improve my game even more.
Again just my experience, and $.02. I hate losing more than I love winning, just my competitive spirit kicking in
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Salaries are generally based on what you have done, not what you are doing at the moment ... which is why several of the coaches you listed have a much much shorter tenure at their school than many of the coaches making the top dollars
But to think VT could just pick and choose which of those coaches they want seems silly
Edit, seems you have a few outdated salaries also, here is a recent list... on a side note, it's funny they list Timecops age as 5
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So which of these coaches wouldn't accept 2.75-3.0 mil and the head coaching job at VT.
Or...are you saying Ole MIss, Kentucky, UCLA, Duke, WVU, Clemson, Auburn, Arizona, Arizona ST, Baylor, or Michigan St all have better football programs than VT.
Are we saying that all these teams give their head coach a better shot at rebuilding to win than VT
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Freezes contract has been extended by one year to the maximum four years and his base salary will rise to $3 million (from $2 million)
Freeze took over a 2-10 team and brought it back to bowl eligibility. He then signed one of the nations top recruiting class last spring 2013 and has another top 15 class in the works 2014. The future is bright in Oxford and
Now in Nov 2014 he is coaching a Top 5 team
So that's what he can do and Beamer is on the same scale as that?
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So that's what he can do and Beamer is on the same scale as that?
First and foremost I NEVER compared any of those coaches to Beamer, I only commented that I thought it was comical that you think VT could just pick and chose ANY coach off that list... I also corrected you on Freeze's salary, which in the link I posted (which supposedly is accurate as of today) shows it at 3.2 million, which would mean that to come to VT for 2.75-3 million would mean taking a pay cut. So if you would like an actually reply to my points then fine, but I don't intend to argue a point I didn't make
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Location, school and conference. Clemson, MSU, and Auburn are all willing to throw a heck of a lot more money into their football programs than Tech is or is capable of. Clemson pays three coaches well over a million dollars each. Football is king at Auburn for many reasons.
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EDIT: jpoole. It's okay to have an opinion, but can you just agree to disagree? Your incessant anecdotal arguments are madness. Frank ain't going anywhere any time soon and you should expect lefty on the staff for AT LEAST 1 more year. Probably 2 or 3.
If you're upset with everything about VT, you should find another football program to pull for.
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The biggest problem today was when we needed a long sustained drive the most we couldn't get it. There were four or five drives where we didn't actually need a touchdown we just needed to put together a batch of first downs and flip the field. We couldn't do it. Today just boiled down to us not making plays at the right time. How many times did we start from inside our own 5 and go three and out? I'm not as mad about this loss as I thought I would be but it was a winnable game on many accounts. Opening drive touchdown? Where did that go?
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The biggest problem yesterday was that our defense failed at the worst possible times giving up points the second we finally fought back to take the lead. And by now, giving up back breaking 4th quarter points us becoming far too regular an occurrence to ignore.
Our offense put us in a position to win and our defense threw it away.
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And that is just this year. If you start going back and start listing out all the last minute losses we've had that come after a back breaking last minute score you're not going to like the list that gets compiled. I mean this goes back to FSU smoking us in the 4th quarter of the title game, includes the Matt Ryan dagger, Boise, etc. Granted these kinds of situations were few and far between back then but we have a history of this kind of play and now that the defensive talent isn't where it used to be, these games are becoming regular. Ifor we're in the 4th quarter of a close game where we're holding on for dear life, it's sad but you can almost count on the defense giving up a score nowadays, and most of the time those scores will be a big play from a defensive breakdown. It's just becoming too regular to ignore.
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A defense can only hold so long when the offense puts together so many three and outs and can't flip the field. A lot of that is to blame on special teams though. Who's in charge of that again?
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No one wants to admit it but our STs have been fine this year. We rank 95th in average starting field position and 120th in opponent's starting field position. While Hughes is struggling a bit, teams aren't returning the ball on him. Its the offense that's continuously putting the defense in a tough spot.
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I understand that Hughes has been asked to take a little off the distance and get hang time.
With a few exceptions he's done well with that.
I can't find the stat but I think before Miami we were averaging allowing 3 yds ave return on punts.
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We rank 95th in average starting field position and 120th in opponent's starting field position.
Wait, what? Am I reading these numbers backward or something? We rank 120th in opponent's starting field position and our ST have been fine? It seems to me that if 119 teams are better at something than we are, we're not very good at it. What am I missing here?
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Our offense isn't driving the ball forward. The other team is going to have good feild position if you punt it out of the back of your endzone no matter how good your punt coverage is.
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Neither one of those numbers seem very good to me. Although I may not be reading them correctly. We had a few good kickoff returns during the BC game, but that was abnormal. The status quo this year has been to field the ball in the endzone and get promptly get tackled at the 15. Definitely not helping our field position.
Punt returns are what's putting our O in a tough spot. Just look at the BC game and how often we didn't even bother putting a returner back there. I don't know what the deal is with that - especially if we're not going for the block.
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The BC game was kind of an anomaly for punts. We're ranked 13th in the country in terms of punt returning. The ability of BC to down several punts that close, in one game, is nuts. Should we have put someone back there to catch them, or maybe been more aggressive for a block? Probably, but that's hindsight bias. When have you ever seen 3 punts in one game get downed that far back? It's incredibly rare, but the bounces just went their way.
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I've been watching this discussion about special teams and it seems to me that we aren't taking knees in the end zone often enough, but at the same time BC hosed us by downing so many kicks so close to the goal line. I think that has less to do with our ineptitude and more to do with a strong showing from BC's special teams unit.
However, I do think that after a couple of those, fair catching the ball, even if it seemed to be too deep, would have ultimately done us better. What are you gonna do.
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Yeah frankly what I saw is BCs punter got really lucky a few times with the roll. He'd punt into the wind...it'd go about 30 yards and then roll 15 more and because of the lack of distance on the punt the coverage team could cover it really easily and let it roll out.
It went the other way in the 4th (or 3rd cant remember) quarter for a gain of about 8 yards but regardless I'd call that a fluke honestly...our kick return team on the other hand...ooph
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Injuries and freshmen mistakes, injuries and freshmen mistakes. That's the 2014 season in a nutshell. The coaches don't have a lot of control over youth and injuries, People.
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Maybe the coaches are buying into that...injuries and freshman mistakes. At this point it seems like a weak excuse for our failures this year. Many teams have injuries and young players. The good teams overcome them. We aren't good this year.
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Ok so, playing this many freshmen has nothing to do with our struggles. I suppose the ridiculous amount of injuries is just a part of every football team
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Comments
FTFY.
After they stopped throwing a screen every other play. That's the most frustrating part about this offense, we see something that doesn't work and they keep trying it, and stay away from what does work until the 4th quarter.
Yep, I actually think this is one of our best offensive performances and we showed how we can move the ball. I just have to hope that inspires a bit of confidence and we can consistently do it. Some play calls were head-scratchers, and sometimes the execution simply failed, but there was a lot of good that happened on offense today.
And Sam Rogers continues to be my hero. There is no quit in that guy.
He was hands down the best player on the field. His block on that first drive, I think it was number 99, to give Brewer enough time for the big gainer down the sideline was awesome. Fullback vs. Defensive Tackle and it wasn't even close.
You do realize that guy was 6'9 right?! Got so sick of hearing that every other play.
Apparently 2 people found this comment offensive...
You obviously need to tone down your insensitive remarks /s
You know how I love flame wars.
Offensive is right there in the post
who cares? For someone who comments on things saying that (insert topic here) doesn't need its own forum topic, you sure like to reply to things that don't need comments. I know this is ironic but if you get down voted, move on/ignore and like I said, who cares.
Because it's my job as Moderator to point out things that are contrary to the culture here. I call out inappropriate downvotes on other people, and I'm pretty sure this is the first time I've done so on my own behalf. I believe in the correct use of the requirements Joe has put on all of us, and I will highlight misuse, as I have been asked to do. For those who downvoted me, I know they weren't deserved, and maybe people think I'm bitching unnecessarily. But as I have stated several times before, because the turkey leg count algorithm has changed, (1) simply posting does not add to your count, so if you don't like the fact that someone commented, just move on and (2) your count now is actually an indicator of quality within the community, so using downvotes counts. I see no reason why anything I have said is contrary to the Community Guidelines. In fact, my first post was rather positive and I was truly just confused. Random -1's that show up are usually mistakes and yes, we all move on, but when a couple start showing up it is usually a product of abuse of the system and subsequent herd mentality. If people want to get cute and keep downvoting haphazardly, or if they just don't like me, well that's what they're going to do and they'll eventually get banned because voting is logged.
And yes, I stand by my statement (at the time) of the unnecessary new forum. When posted, it was a one-liner about Knowles staying in the end zone. It has subsequently been changed and there is meaningful discussion taking place there. But when it was posted, it made no sense to have its own forum.
I wish the Hokies would be more offensive...
Actual conversation:
"No offense, Scott"-Frank Beamer
"None taken, Frank."-Scott Loeffler
Well to be fair that offense is a substitute for the ground game... if our line can't block you gotta do something that represents a run game, and is quick enough to keep the defense on their heels. And prevents them from just dropping 8 into coverage like Pitt and Miami did. Loeffler is also handcuffed with play calling because our line can't block for more than 2 seconds and we were playing at the 1 yard line for three straight drives
The offense looked better. Not as many penalties. No INT's. For one, I'm not really upset about the game. We learned that this team doesn't execute consistently and we've also learned that the potential to be a top 25 team in the future is there.
I have no expectations of this time for the rest of the year except that we simply continue to reduce our self-inflicted wounds and that the coaches ensure the team learns from their mistakes. It was time to recalibrate our expectations weeks ago, and I'm finally there.
I agree the offense looked better than last Thursday, but I have to ask... could it really look much worse? I hope we continue the momentum and pray that we somehow beat UVA this year, I'm just not convinced a home loss to a 5-3 BC team shows potential to be a top 25 team in the future.
haha. that is a fair question and my answer has to be "no". However, this offense looked kinda like it did against OSU for a good portion of the game and had we played like that all year, we'd probably be in a very different position right now.
i suppose for me, the game today isn't what solidified my optimistic outlook for the future. It's knowing that guys like Motuapuaka, I. Ford, Marshawn, Cam P, Ekanem, Chuck Clark, Bucky, and Wyatt will be around for a while. And...I think Loeffler can groom a QB to be an effective distributor and I like the fact that he's going to have some options.
Good portion of the game? yea the last couple of drives were nice but none of it was great/good
End of game (in reverse order)
VT: 9 plays, 75 yards, 2:31 - Touchdown
VT: 3 plays, 5 yards, 0:00 - Punt
VT: 11 plays, 75 yards, 3:05 - Touchdown
VT: 11 plays, 67 yards, 3:44 - Touchdown
VT: 6 plays, 19 yards, 0:00 - Punt
VT: 0 plays, -3 yards, 0:00 - Fumble
VT: 3 plays, 2 yards, 0:00 - Punt
- End of 1st Half
VT: 5 plays, 10 yards, 0:29 - Missed FG
VT: 3 plays, 9 yards, 0:00 - Punt
VT: 3 plays, 2 yards, 0:00 - Punt
VT: 4 plays, 9 yards, 1:22 - Downs
VT: 7 plays, 36 yards, 2:00 - Field Goal
VT: 3 plays, 2 yards, 0:00 - Punt
VT: 3 plays, -3 yards, 0:00 - Punt
VT: 9 plays, 95 yards, 3:09 - Touchdown
over 400 yards total offense
TOP was nearly even vs a team that is run heavy
zero turnovers on offense
44% conversion rate on 3rd and 4th down
scored 4 TDs, and had 2 other drives end in FG attempts
I'll take that EVERY f'n week
This.
Everygame?
Great, Up next is Duke
Today scored 51 against Pitt and is scoring lots of points, except against Miami
Duke is avg 38 rushing plays a game for 6 yrds a carry this season. Which is not been our strong spot.
31 pts won't help to good against a team averaging 36
yeah, 51 points looks good, until you realize it was a double overtime game, and then notice that Duke's offense only scored 31 points in regulation
They average 36 points a game? That puts them right about the same as UNC ... and we managed to do ok against them with a similar offensive output
yea except for UNC is a passing team and we handled that pretty well after learning from ECU. UNC is 25th worst rushing team - Win
Duke is ranked 34th in rushing yards per game
Miami is 40th Loss
Pitt is 21st Loss
BC is 10th Loss
GT is 4th Loss
Duke doesnt rank high in passing yard per game the same way Pitt, GT, BC dont. Those 3 are rank worse than Duke, while Miami is only slightly higher in passing yards per game
OSU is ranked in the high teens in rushing also
And you're wandering off point, my point is that I'll take 4 TDs and 2 FG attempts every game and be happy, if we do that and don't miss FGs against any of the teams you listed we win ALL OF THOSE GAMES, as 4x7=28 and 2x3=6 and 28+6 equals 34, and nobody has scored more than 33 against us all year
but I'm really done debating what sounds like a Tenn fan, have a nice day and good luck with the Chattanooga/Ark ST/Utah Sts of the world
I'm downvoting this post (not jpoole) because I don't think there's any place for the mindset exhibited by this quote
You can disagree with his argument but he's providing objective numbers to support why he thinks we'll struggle against Duke. However, this type of retort is uncalled for IMO.
Nicely described downvote.
And that's how you do it.
That's fine, and I probably should've explained myself better.. that was a carryover from another thread in which he was over and over again talking about Tenn recruiting, Tenn SOS, Tenn average rankings.. etc etc etc... none of which had anything to do with Duke or any other ACC team at all
And for the record I didn't downvote any of his comments if anyone was wondering
Is there a reason someone is down-voting this guy for stating his opinion and using facts to support it? Nothing offensive about his posts.
Yeah, it looks like he picked up a serial DV.
You could say that about us and our 21 points in the 4th quarter after we changed to the more fast paced offense. Take out the 4th quarter and our offense was nothing to be proud of.
Actually that first drive was 9 yards and 95 plays, according to the announcer.
Longest.drive.ever.
Do you have a similar rundown for the OSU game? I bet it doesn't look too much different.
4 plays31 yardsInterception
10 plays43 yards Touchdown
9 plays58 yearsTouchdown
3 plays-4 yardsPunt
3 plays-9 yards Punt
6 plays18 yardsPunt
8 plays61 yardsTouchdown
9 plays11 yardsPunt
3 plays8 yardsPunt
4 plays16 yardsInterception
6 plays7 yardsFumble
6 plays65 yardsTouchdown
3 plays1 yardPunt
4 plays9 yardsMissed FG
cursory glance here, same amount of TD's and two less interceptions. I stand by my statement.
I was going to reply to you above to say:
Four TDs, two FG attempts, and NO TURNOVERS.
That I will take every week. And twice on Black Friday.
Special teams failed us again. Kick return fumble and missed FG screwed us over big time, coupled with a patchy defense once again.
I don't blame the offense for this loss, although they were still pretty mediocre. The defense an ST let us down when it mattered most.
Not missed FG, blocked FG. I am sure the announcers were all over Beamerball being used against Beamer.
nah, they went to BC coach
BC Coach - we did not even try to block the FG because a fake was what we were expecting
I just seems that our D cannot stop anybody when it counts. They play great (especially the LBs) the whole game, but the last TD really killed us and it was 3rd and long. The offense did look better so I was happy about that. This game was very winnable, just another heart breaker in Lane.
"I just seems that our D cannot stop anybody when it counts."
Is it me or has it felt like this since Boise State?
Great? We rank 60th out of 128 teams in rushing defense, before today
I was referring to this game, not the season but yeah, not so great, but solid outside a few plays. Just trying to look at the bright side of things and saw some of the younger guys make some plays, Clarke and AD specifically. Bonner got cracked on the first TD run so good play by BC TE and not sure if Bonner was out of position or not. I don't know where our safeties were on the last TD we gave up though. Other than those 2 plays, I thought the D played pretty solid.
1st and 10 - stopped.
2nd and 10 - stopped.
3rd and 10 - off to the races for 57 yards. Seems like no one even came close to getting a hand on him. So disappointing to watch that unfold.
Welcome to your first day on TKP.
I saw Wyatt Teller literally drive his man out of bounds on one play. Why don't we run begin him every play?
I would also like to nominate him for captain and request 4 clones of him for next season.
Yes! On another, he took his man to the ground, loaded up, and just dropped to his knees and pancaked him. More WT, please
There was a play where he pancaked a guy, worked him over a little on the ground. Trainers had to come out for the guy. Teller was pumped up after the play. He played a little past the echo of the whistle.....Awesome!!!!
Him and Sam Rogers
I will get a ton of down votes for this and I don't care, it's time to voice my opinion! This coaching staff needs to go! Frank has lost it! Stanford should not be back on the team, I have inside knowledge of what the cause was, and no I will not divulge. There has been trouble between Whit and Frank! Bad weather was not the cause of the poor attendance! Some of the big time donors are starting to push for frank to be let go and I agree, we have been going downhill for the last 3-4 years! So like I said down vote me all you want had to voice my opinion and state some facts!
Are you Hokie5284?
No I am not!
Exclamation points!
If anyone downvotes for your opinion, they're in the wrong. Your post is pretty inflammatory, though. I understand if not, but is there anything else you can divulge? Do you have an inside source you can tell us about, anything about the trouble between Whit and Frank, how many donors want Frank gone? I've got mixed feelings about Frank at this point, but I don't have anything besides on field results to go off of. Can you share more about what led to your opinion?
I understand what you mean by inflammatory, but as far as Stanford goes, I will just say this I work in law enforcement, so my career field should give you an idea but you know how things go I can't divulge things. As far as frank goes, I have been very attentive to his interviews the last few years and it just seems that he never wants to admit that the staff didn't do their job. Which in many of these games this year there have been calls that just make you think what are they doing. I coach little league football and know u don't call a screen pass when you need 8-10 yards, just one example. I hope this helps you some with my views on things.
Thanks for responding, and I respect the silence due to law enforcement. Anything about the Whit-Frank relationship? That could be big going into the offseason
I am interested in that aspect as well. On one hand I respect and don't want Frank to be forced out. ( Not yet at least) On the other hand, I do believe that he must be accountable for this cluster fuck right now. Whit is his boss so he has every right to get on his case if it makes an aspect of his department better in any way. Was it on the field issue or internal tidying that caused some rift?
I am shaking my head right now. A screen being called at the correct time is an effective play call. As a little league coach, you should know that the key to any play is player execution, fundamental skill, effort, and finally timing of the call. Great coaches taught me that of those criteria, the timing of the call is the least critical, because any appropriately designed play, executed correctly, should get the needed yardage. No play is designed to get X number of yards except for a two point play and a few red zone combination pass routes (due to the confined space.)
And just a general comment: the worst part of watching a loss isn't the on the field product. It is listening the the vitriol that gets spewed by people who clearly do not understand the game afterwards. Forgive me sir, but I am glad my child is not playing for you, because you clearly don't understand the game and what it takes to be successful in it.
Thank you for the forum. I am off to watch hockey.
Yes thats exactly right and ole miss and Auburn proved that
but VT has been playing screen pass all game every game for the last who knows how many games
its an option to the offense to catch the defense but rarely VT does it good and in my opinion the post was as we all feel, that VT is over using it and not utilizing the team's true strengths of a fast paced no huddle offense and that once a game or quarter a screen pass may be good
Note: On the Screen passes by VT today at least it looked like a sight call where Brewer and the wide outs would recognize the match up and run the play...I think it is suspicious that Byrne seems to be the wide out getting alot of those passes.
Case in point: Mississippi State, 3rd and 14 with a chance to ice the game, perfectly executes a delayed screen to the running back with less than 3 minutes left and a TD lead in the 4th Q.
Ole Miss threw a WR screen to Laquon Treadwell in the red zone that almost took a late lead. It was ruled an early fumble after he got taken down awkwardly (and was badly injured, rough to see), but he had the distance for a score.
A screen being run PROPERLY is an effective play call...right?
A screen being run the way we have been running it lately is clearly not as effective.
As you pointed out, player execution is key....I just don't think we are executing it very well.
If you can't divulge things, then don't. I would prefer to either have information that I can be sure is reliable from a reliable source, or, I would like things to not be discussed. As it stands it feels like the spread of rumors.
It never seems, if at all, CFB in a post game conference has owned up to his mistakes or just said we didn't play well, or so and so needs to make that play, etc. It always seems like its the same bs..... "we were one or two plays away and the game would of been different", "(insert team) will get afterya, they are a tough team", "Im proud of the way my team play, we just got unlucky on some plays." Im sure ill get down voted for this, but to me, its very concerning to hear this over and over again without CFB owning up to his own/teams mistake. I know he is trying to be upbeat, keep the moral up and try to look on the positive side too. It's just so damn frustrating sometimes. I'd rather him say (insert name/himself/position/coach/play) screwed up or that's what lost us the game. Thats just my $.02
Frank has too much class to say anything negative about anybody to the public.
It is taken as a given he has assumed all fault and we'll work on it next week. It is taken as a given because that's what he's done since he got here.
Lee Corso may blame God for striking lightning on his car but, Frank would just say, "Well that God guy, he'll get after ya."
Oh i know that, no doubt. But me personally, all the teams I played on, I would rather lose and have my coach tell me I sucked or missed on a play, this is what you should of done, etc. than have my team lose and the coach just look at the good things. Thats how teams get complacent imo. And yea, I know he probably tells them at practice the next week, but for me, getting blasted in front of the media would hit home for me harder, and make me want to improve my game even more.
Again just my experience, and $.02. I hate losing more than I love winning, just my competitive spirit kicking in
I understand the privately, Frank is a lot more direct than his public persona.
If you need correcting, he's not shy to mention it.
2013 salary info
$2.5 million says on field performance is about all that matters
Am I missing something?? PLease tell me
Coaches we could have for the same or less
West Virginia Dana Holgorsen (Top 25 School)
$2,630,000
Southern California Lane Kiffin (Top 25 School off/on)
$2,594,091
Washington Steve Sarkisian
$2,575,000
North Carolina State Dave Doeren
$2,550,000
Clemson Dabo Swinney (Top 25 School)
$2,540,024
Georgia Tech Paul Johnson
$2,513,000
Kansas Charlie Weis
$2,500,000
Auburn Gus Malzahn (Top 5 School)
$2,440,000
Utah Kyle Whittingham (Top 25 School)
$2,427,100
Baylor Art Briles (Top 25 School)
$2,426,360
Colorado Mike MacIntyre
$2,403,500
California Sonny Dykes
$2,394,000
Arizona State Todd Graham (Top 25 School)
$2,300,000
UCLA Jim Mora (Top 25 School)
$2,300,000
Washington State Mike Leach
$2,250,000
Northwestern Pat Fitzgerald
$2,221,153
Virginia Mike London (yes...)
$2,173,200
Arizona Rich Rodriguez (Top 25 School)
$1,850,000
Wisconsin Gary Andersen (Top 26 School)
$2,035,823
Ole Miss Hugh Freeze (Top 5 School)
$2,000,000
Kentucky Mark Stoops
$2,001,250
Michigan State Mark Dantonio (Top 10 School)
$1,959,744
Duke David Cutcliffe (Top 25 School)
$1,792,285
Salaries are generally based on what you have done, not what you are doing at the moment ... which is why several of the coaches you listed have a much much shorter tenure at their school than many of the coaches making the top dollars
But to think VT could just pick and choose which of those coaches they want seems silly
Edit, seems you have a few outdated salaries also, here is a recent list... on a side note, it's funny they list Timecops age as 5
So which of these coaches wouldn't accept 2.75-3.0 mil and the head coaching job at VT.
Or...are you saying Ole MIss, Kentucky, UCLA, Duke, WVU, Clemson, Auburn, Arizona, Arizona ST, Baylor, or Michigan St all have better football programs than VT.
Are we saying that all these teams give their head coach a better shot at rebuilding to win than VT
I'm saying the Ole Miss coach would be taking a pay cut to come to VT at 3 mil a year, I gave you an updated list
and last time I checked Michigan St and Auburn were top ten programs, so yeah, coming to VT might not be considered a step up
right so December 10, 2013
Freezes contract has been extended by one year to the maximum four years and his base salary will rise to $3 million (from $2 million)
Freeze took over a 2-10 team and brought it back to bowl eligibility. He then signed one of the nations top recruiting class last spring 2013 and has another top 15 class in the works 2014. The future is bright in Oxford and
Now in Nov 2014 he is coaching a Top 5 team
So that's what he can do and Beamer is on the same scale as that?
First and foremost I NEVER compared any of those coaches to Beamer, I only commented that I thought it was comical that you think VT could just pick and chose ANY coach off that list... I also corrected you on Freeze's salary, which in the link I posted (which supposedly is accurate as of today) shows it at 3.2 million, which would mean that to come to VT for 2.75-3 million would mean taking a pay cut. So if you would like an actually reply to my points then fine, but I don't intend to argue a point I didn't make
Most of those could be considered to have better programs. Clemson, Auburn, and MSU definitely are.
So who's to blame for that
Frank running it in to the ground
or
Weaver not keeping VT as a top football school, and now Babcock has to play catch up
Location, school and conference. Clemson, MSU, and Auburn are all willing to throw a heck of a lot more money into their football programs than Tech is or is capable of. Clemson pays three coaches well over a million dollars each. Football is king at Auburn for many reasons.
But what and who is the reason...........
Clemson is in our conference, they had a very similar revenue to us
MSU is a basketball school - they won the championship in 1999
Auburn is the little brother of alabama state schools
EDIT: jpoole. It's okay to have an opinion, but can you just agree to disagree? Your incessant anecdotal arguments are madness. Frank ain't going anywhere any time soon and you should expect lefty on the staff for AT LEAST 1 more year. Probably 2 or 3.
If you're upset with everything about VT, you should find another football program to pull for.
#sources
"Inside information" that has already been posted on twitter...niceeee
My exact thought lol
What was posted on Twitter?
welcome to the club, the water is kinda cold in here. But it can only get better/warmer
Warmer isn't always better...
Holy crap, that's a long gif. Hilarious, though.
The biggest problem today was when we needed a long sustained drive the most we couldn't get it. There were four or five drives where we didn't actually need a touchdown we just needed to put together a batch of first downs and flip the field. We couldn't do it. Today just boiled down to us not making plays at the right time. How many times did we start from inside our own 5 and go three and out? I'm not as mad about this loss as I thought I would be but it was a winnable game on many accounts. Opening drive touchdown? Where did that go?
We got field positioned so hard. It was like staring in the Mirror of Erised: hard nosed running, tough defense, blocked kicks and great punts. oof
The biggest problem yesterday was that our defense failed at the worst possible times giving up points the second we finally fought back to take the lead. And by now, giving up back breaking 4th quarter points us becoming far too regular an occurrence to ignore.
Our offense put us in a position to win and our defense threw it away.
It doesn't happen often that the defense is the let down, but it did happen yesterday.
And the D giving it away is nothing new... ECU GT and now BC
And that is just this year. If you start going back and start listing out all the last minute losses we've had that come after a back breaking last minute score you're not going to like the list that gets compiled. I mean this goes back to FSU smoking us in the 4th quarter of the title game, includes the Matt Ryan dagger, Boise, etc. Granted these kinds of situations were few and far between back then but we have a history of this kind of play and now that the defensive talent isn't where it used to be, these games are becoming regular. Ifor we're in the 4th quarter of a close game where we're holding on for dear life, it's sad but you can almost count on the defense giving up a score nowadays, and most of the time those scores will be a big play from a defensive breakdown. It's just becoming too regular to ignore.
A defense can only hold so long when the offense puts together so many three and outs and can't flip the field. A lot of that is to blame on special teams though. Who's in charge of that again?
No one wants to admit it but our STs have been fine this year. We rank 95th in average starting field position and 120th in opponent's starting field position. While Hughes is struggling a bit, teams aren't returning the ball on him. Its the offense that's continuously putting the defense in a tough spot.
I understand that Hughes has been asked to take a little off the distance and get hang time.
With a few exceptions he's done well with that.
I can't find the stat but I think before Miami we were averaging allowing 3 yds ave return on punts.
Wait, what? Am I reading these numbers backward or something? We rank 120th in opponent's starting field position and our ST have been fine? It seems to me that if 119 teams are better at something than we are, we're not very good at it. What am I missing here?
Our offense isn't driving the ball forward. The other team is going to have good feild position if you punt it out of the back of your endzone no matter how good your punt coverage is.
Well, yeah, I can see that, but does that mean ranking 120th in OFP is a sign the ST are "fine"?
I'm just saying that it's more indicitave with this team of all the round not very goodness.
Neither one of those numbers seem very good to me. Although I may not be reading them correctly. We had a few good kickoff returns during the BC game, but that was abnormal. The status quo this year has been to field the ball in the endzone and get promptly get tackled at the 15. Definitely not helping our field position.
Punt returns are what's putting our O in a tough spot. Just look at the BC game and how often we didn't even bother putting a returner back there. I don't know what the deal is with that - especially if we're not going for the block.
The BC game was kind of an anomaly for punts. We're ranked 13th in the country in terms of punt returning. The ability of BC to down several punts that close, in one game, is nuts. Should we have put someone back there to catch them, or maybe been more aggressive for a block? Probably, but that's hindsight bias. When have you ever seen 3 punts in one game get downed that far back? It's incredibly rare, but the bounces just went their way.
True - their punter was en fuego. But a fair catch is a fail safe for all the bounces going their way.
Yes, this.
I've been watching this discussion about special teams and it seems to me that we aren't taking knees in the end zone often enough, but at the same time BC hosed us by downing so many kicks so close to the goal line. I think that has less to do with our ineptitude and more to do with a strong showing from BC's special teams unit.
However, I do think that after a couple of those, fair catching the ball, even if it seemed to be too deep, would have ultimately done us better. What are you gonna do.
Yeah frankly what I saw is BCs punter got really lucky a few times with the roll. He'd punt into the wind...it'd go about 30 yards and then roll 15 more and because of the lack of distance on the punt the coverage team could cover it really easily and let it roll out.
It went the other way in the 4th (or 3rd cant remember) quarter for a gain of about 8 yards but regardless I'd call that a fluke honestly...our kick return team on the other hand...ooph
In my considered opinion, which I am sure you guys are now aware, the BC decent kick returns are no accident. They are a product of practice.
I will not predict more and better results each game but, I do expect an improvement in average starting position and a few more threats to go long.
I expect this discussion next year to be no longer had.
Injuries and freshmen mistakes, injuries and freshmen mistakes. That's the 2014 season in a nutshell. The coaches don't have a lot of control over youth and injuries, People.
The problem is we have juniors and seniors making some of those freshman mistakes.
We lost to pitt who has the 3rd most freshmen starting/3rd youngest team
O, $h!t I forgot I recently looked at phil Steeles outlook
Lets see
This year VT returns 14 starters but lost 5 top tacklers from last year/ they draw WF and BC and play 4 Bowl teams on the road.
VT still has a great shot at double digit win season and a possible shot a playing the ACCCG printed
Losing players, Louisville suffered huge in players leaving for the draft (#3 in biggest impact on a teams overall player leaving) and almost beat F$U
Maybe the coaches are buying into that...injuries and freshman mistakes. At this point it seems like a weak excuse for our failures this year. Many teams have injuries and young players. The good teams overcome them. We aren't good this year.
Ok so, playing this many freshmen has nothing to do with our struggles. I suppose the ridiculous amount of injuries is just a part of every football team