What is the alternative that gives us a better chance to win than letting Frank finish his contract or even sign an extension? This is an honest question and not a rant intending to change the opinion of those that want Frank gone. I want to hear all opinions, even if they are different than mine.
Frank is the winningest active coach in D-1 football. That is a huge boost to recruting. He is a face of the university in terms of ahtletics and a great representative for our school. He built the program from the ground up and has guided it to some pretty lofty heights; never reaching the pinnacle that everyone suspected VT was capable of, but is there anyone out there who thinks we would have even had those chances without him? We have no national title, but how many vacated wins? How many NCAA sanctions? How many recruiting violations and losses of scholarships. There is something to be said about consistent Frank. Yes, his schemes might be older than flip-phones and about as current as America Online. But is it time to put him out to pasture?
Who out there wants to replace a legend? What coach, with the bona-fides and track record of success wants to walk in the shadow of a New River Valley demigod? Is there a proven D1 coach that wants that gig? You either get two options (in my opinion)
1) A up and comer who has had success at a lower tier (MAC of AAC or Sun Belt) who wants to punch above his weight class and take his shot , even if he knows he is on a short leash, because why the hell not, someone has to be that guy
2) A big name coach who has had success elsewhere, been forced out of that situation, and wants to get back into the big time. This coach may or may not have baggage (Bobby Petrino, Butch Davis, Mike Leach, the Vest for example). Better get the NCAA Infractions committee on speed-dial, we are going to be in communication a lot.
And remember, this new coach better have strong ties to the 757, lest we lose all ties to VT's bread and butter region for football talent. Oh, and he better be tied into the other states that we pull from, and he better be able to make a VT team in transition seem more appealing than Maryland (who has some renewed appeal now in the Big 10), Penn State (James Franklin is gonna steal some guys in the next few years), Urban Cryer (always looking to poach a prospect with a VT offer), the entire SEC and every other ACC team that isn't replacing their coach.
And what of the other coaching dominos. Say we squeeze Frank out: What if Bud Foster doesn't like the way the administration treated his mentor? What if he decides that he'd rather take the Brinks truck full of money from one of the SEC schools and leaves town. "But thats ok, we have Torrian Gray". He Bud, hold the door, I'm coming with you. Oops, didn't think about that one. There is a fraternal bond between our coaches. These guys go way back, the loyalty is deep.
There is only one certainty in our coaching future, it will include Steiney, because that guy is a vampire, just can't kill him.
So TKP: Give me your coach. Anything short of the ghost of Bear Bryant is on the table. Give me your coach and your reasoning. All things considered. You are Whit Babcock for a day. Solve the problem that many of you have expressed. A coaching change is needed, now solve it.
I am still Pro-Frank. I think the man has earned the right to walk away on his terms or play out his contract before deciding what he wants to do next. Nothing lasts forever, but is forcing Frank out going to yeild positive results?
Let's get some names and open up the coaching search. For this hypothetical, any potential buyout of financial consideration is not on the table. Let's just open up the hiring process: First resume on the list is....
Comments
Why not Bud Foster for HC?
He has applied for HC positions else where (Kelmpson among others) and was not offered, he is getting pretty old for a first time gig, and I dont think he is a strong recruiter which is important for a HC...Bottom line if he wanted to be a HC he should have started down that track in the 00's at a mid major and worked his way up.
Personal Note: I dont think many coaches in waiting or coaches who get promoted from Coordinator to HC at the same school do well, but that is my opinion.
If we force out Frank, is Foster really going to take Franks seat at the table while it is still warm? This isn't Game of Thrones, he might actually care about his mentor and lifelong friend
I agree. I think the moment you force Frank out you force Bud out. You can't say "Hey, we're loyal to our coaches, we won't do the same thing to you" because he will have been there the entire time watching us fire Frank.
I don't think that's an absolute. I do think Foster may really look for other opportunities, no matter the outcome this season.
Maybe a clean slate is what we need going forward... don't get me wrong I love Bud but with the mess we have right now it might be in or best interests to bring in someone and let him use the coaching staff he wants without mandating anyone stays.
FSU had to do the same thing in letting Micky Andrews go and that worked out well for them. I'd hate to see Bud go but it wouldn't be the end of the world if he isn't a part of our next coaching staff.
We need our next HC to be more of a savvy recruiter than Coach Beamer, not less.
He can't recruit at an elite level. Period.
Disagree, there are a ton of top talents on the team. You think Hodges, Ford, Cam, Williams, etc come to VT without Beamer? Doubtful.
He's talking about Bud.
Sorry, didn't realize the comment was to previous comment. Guess that's why I got the downvotes?
Are you really trying to say we have a tteam loaded with talent because of Beamer?
Hate to burst your bubble but the reason we got excited about those guys is that they were our first legitimate talent in a while and are here because of the new coaches we brought in who worked their asses off to get them in. Beamer was part of the system that left the cupboard so bare that we're in the state we are right now. Without these new guys, we don't have any of the players you just mentioned.
Who do you think hired those coaches? Frank Beamer did! I don't care if this gets down voted a million times and I get banned from this site. I've been reading your bull shit since the game yesterday and I can't take it anymore. Why don't you take your finger off the panic button? I haven't heard fear mongering like this since Fox News first broke the Ebola story. I don't mind that you and I share a different opinion, but some of the things you're saying are grossly false and irrational, knee jerk reactions at best. We're you on here hollering for a coaching change after the Ohio State game? If so, then please carry on. But I'm gonna go ahead and assume that you weren't. You're taking the attendance from ONE game and making wildly unsubstantiated predictions. I could just as easily use the Miami game and blow your argument out of the water. Fans are reactionary and emotional. We could lose every game from here on out and next spring Lane stadium would still be jumping for the spring scrimmage. Fans have very short memories. It's been proven time and time again. But it's people like you that could very possibly cause VT to be the new Tennessee. They weren't happy because they weren't winning the SEC every year and competing for the Nat Title. Now look at them? Laughing stock of the SEC and one of their last Bowl games 2009, they got pounded by our Hokies. You praise the new coaches for recruiting all this young talent, Frank Beamer hired those coaches. He knows what he's doing. He's not the senile old man that some of you try to make him out to be. You want Frank gone? Fine That's your opinion but try to act like an adult and use facts and actual historical data to back your argument and stop insulting people's intelligence with your fear mongering and baseless bull shit.
My apologies if my inability to see everything through the rosy glasses you want me to be wearing does not go over well with you. TKP welcomes all viewpoints, those that are positive towards the program, and those that are critical of the way things are going. If you can't handle the critical viewpoints, then this might not be the place for you.
As for saying I'm overly critical. You're right, I'm pissed off as a fan right now. We're 4-5 in November with a 1-4 record in a weak ACC with a team that keeps shooting itself in the foot at the worst possible moments. I was all for a coaching change in 2012, and now I'm frustrated as hell because nothing has changed. Absolutely nothing. Our recruiting is taking a better turn, but the coaching is still as bad as it has been. Our OL still struggles every game, our offensive playcalling is just as questionable as it was in 2012, our Special Teams is a walking disaster, and worse yet, our defense is now extremely prone to giving up big plays, especially at the worst possible moments. I don't like the fact that there were only 55k people at the game last night, and I loathe the fact that we're looking up at everyone in the standings in arguably the worst division in college football. 3 years ago we were an At Large bid to the Sugar Bowl and now we're a bottom feeder in a bad division. My apologies if you don't share the same frustrations as I do, but I don't find this kind of falloff acceptable at all.
And as for your comments about the Ohio State game. No, I wasn't calling for heads. Why? Because that was a different team than the one we see now. The playcalling in that game made sense. We were moving the ball down the field. We were putting the ball into the hands of our receivers down the field. We were forcing the defense to spread itself out, and we were taking advantages of the mismatches we were creating. That team vanished after the Western Michigan game. What we have now is the same muddled mess we had in 2012, and that frustrates me, especially after what we saw earlier in the year.
You being critical of the program doesn't offend me. As a matter of fact I'm not offended at all because I've been critical of the program lately as well. I just don't like to see someone making an argument and trying to get others to jump on board with them by using half truths and hyperbole. As far as this being a different team, you're absolutely correct. They've lost players due to injury at key positions where there isn't a lot of depth. There isn't a lot of depth because Frank allowed his staff to under recruit. I will give you that. But then. Frank fixed that by hiring new coaches. Recruiting takes time. It doesn't matter if Frank is the big whistle or you get your dream replacement coach. It takes time. Your magic pill of fixing things now rarely exists. As far as play calling, I quit playing football when I was a sophomore in high school because I wasn't very good and I coached peewee football for 2 years, I don't believe that qualifies me to make assessments of the play book. What I can tell you is that the plays MIGHT be different now because of certain limitations we may be faced with currently. That's just a theory and I have no evidence to back it up.
I don't like arguing with fellow Hokie fans here or anywhere else because I think we all want what's best for the school and athletic program that we love but we just have way different views on what that is sometimes. I try not to live too much in the moment and look at things with more of a big picture approach. I'm sorry I disagree with you in your reasoning that firing one of the best head football coaches in the business is going to fix VT football right now. And that's taking the emotion out of the equation. Add the fact that he was the face of VT and a man who helped heal people's hearts through one of the worst tragedies in our Nation's history, then I think shit canning him to win a few more ball games is just plain wrong. Enjoy the rest of your weekend. Go Hokies!
If you think that the play calling in the Ohio State game was better than the play calling at any other point in the season, you really don't understand American rules football.
C'mon, man.
If you say so
Have a leg...no need to down vote this, people.
I would love for use to be in the same spot as Tenn
Sagarin's College Football Ratings
Stregth of schedule TN 1 VT 44
Sagarin Rank TN 30 VT 50
Win/Loss TN 4-5 VT4-5
Tenn is playing the toughest schedule in all football and closely losing the same number of games we are being blown out in playing a much easier schedule
Miami is a slightly better team ranked at 27 and they destroyed us and Duke is a worse team at 35 and We'll have to see how that goes
GT is 39
BC is 48
The FEI rankings have VT as 29 and Tenn as 49... if you pick and choose which computer or rankings you use, you can usually get the desired outcome
Yea and those are some great numbers to do that with. Seriously the TOP 5 teams as of last week are Oregon, GA, Arizona, USC, Utah
GT @ 15
Clemson @ 16
And at 29 in the rankings we've been upset losses to 30. BC 37. ECU 45. Pitt
We've been upset losses 3 times
Its an Efficiency ranking and it looks like we are top ranked in efficiency
But taking in to account all of the polls out there the Massey index -
Kirkpatrick Wolfe Donchess Inference Self Boyd ISR Dolphin Pred Knight CSL Roundtable Retro
Coffey Howell Pugh Sagarin Real Time RPI OSCAR Predictive Pigskin Nolan Associated Press
Payne Dolphin Sorensen Maas Kellner Baker Bradley-Terry BM Craig Moore Stupey
RoundTable Fleming Solecismic Welch BC Moore Dwiggins The Power Rank Stat Fox USA Today Coaches
Massey Whitlock Colley Marsee Dokter Entropy Billingsley Kislanko ISOV D1A Sports -
ranks VT 57 TN 41
So why did you down vote me?
there are no replies...is it the fact that The FEI is not a good ranking for teams strength
Besides Miami who blew us out? See what I mean? Calm down. We barely lost to Pitt after being down the entire first half. Duke had to beat Pitt in OT yesterday. BC skull drug USC! They beat us by 2 points. Tennessee beat South Carolina on a last minute drive. South Carolina is terrible! They barely lost to UGA, Florida beat UGA last night. Once again, please try to curb the hyperbole. Please.
Only the Miami game as a blowout, all others have been 1 score less
Tennessee Wins:
Utah State
Arkansas State
Chattanooga
South Carolina (F/OT)
Yeah, moorehead may have helped bring new blood in, but a lot of those kids consistently point out that Beamer is a legend and that he is one of the greats. Do you think we get all of the Fullers with no Frank?
I'm tired of hearing how we have no talent. We have been getting good kids for a while. Some don't pan out, others do. But we have and have had talent.
We have talent...that is true. In fact, we have more talent than some of the teams that have beaten us over the past few seasons. If you have superior talent and still lose...what does that tell you?
Either the players aren't playing hard or you are getting out-coached....which one is it? Or is it both?
No one believes we don't have talent, but what we have isn't developed yet. Look at last Saturday's depth chart next to our 2011 depth chart (last 10+ win season). Do you really think that many of our current players could produce this year the same way their 2011 counterparts did in 2011?
I lined up the two-deep side by side, and highlighted the players who I think are better in green. If I thought it was a push, I went yellow. Does anyone disagree with my selections (I admit that my offense line knowledge is far from impressive)?
While I don't doubt that our current roster (especially our WR's), could one day be better than the players on our 2011 squad, I don't think that they can play at that (all-around) level right now.
EDIT: To clarify, I was only comparing 1st string to 1st string and 2nd string to 2nd string.
2 nitpicks:
Willie Byrn I'd take over Marcus I-don't-block-ever Davis, even though he might not be as good
Ryan Mallet played quarterback for Arkansas, while Ryan Malleck plays tight end for VT. I think I'd take Dragerbomb over Malleck but I'd definitely go Hodges over Martin.
I also would debate Ford and Boykin, but since Boykin has the stats and Ford is a freshman, I understand your selection.
How embarrassing... This is what happens when I try to multitask at work.
Anyways, I can see the Davis/Byrn Decision. I would take both Bucky and Malleck over Drager. I'd wager that Ford will be a bigger threat than Boykin by the time his career ends at VT.
Well with the way Cam phillips plays I'd take him over Marcus Davis too.
I was responding to the multitude of comments in just about every thread that say we don't have talent. Another favorite one is the youth, which at this point doesn't mean much since the freshman are the ones blowing it up.
As for the list, I think it's not apples to apples because we are stacking potential versus known stats. I like Danny, but phillips and ford could be better than the rest of the WR. Huge potential there. And if they had a Logan in 2011, who knows what could have happened.
I would pick williams over ogles by too. Don't remember getting excited when josh came in to give Wilson a breather.
As for the line, I don't get to focus on them a bunch, but I'm sure Teller should be in there.
My intent was to compare 2011 results to potential for this year alone.
I was comparing each player to their 2011 counterpart - so first string running back is being compared to first string running back, second string running back compared to second string back... I think I would take Williams over Oglesby too (tough comparison given the difference in O-line), but Williams is our started, Joshua was our second string. I would take JO over JC.
Ha, those guys came here "mainly" for playing time. If you look at Rivals.com recruitng, you wont see Coach Beamers name anywhere. Sure he helps seal the deals, but he's not responsible for the nitty gritty of recruting each player.
But that's the argument, isn't it? Part of the recruiting pitch is "you get to play for Frank Beamer." If you let Frank go, you don't get to say that anymore, and presumably, you fail to close with a couple of those recruits.
But then you can say hey CFB is still highly involved with the football team and we have hired coach ..... that has an extensive background for success ! Not to mention this is the type of offense we would like to run... oh have we forgot to mention our freshman get a chance to play if proven to be ready! Have you seen Enter Sandman Live, have you seen the Drill Field and the new football facility we are building.
IMHO the lure of playing for CFB might have taken a little hit but I'm not ready to say he will be gone for sure if fired/asked to step down. Whit is to smart and if I'm right Beamer's new contract states he will be assistant AD once he retires/steps down.
VT football has a lot more to sell NOW other than Beamer... with that said Beamer definitely helped pave if not create it with his bare hands so I will be excited to see him stay apart of HokieNation if/when he decides he is done.
Our coaching staff turns 3-star guys into NFL draft picks with regularity. That is one of my favorite things about this program. At Alabama and anOSU you see these 4 and 5-star recruits that don't live up to their billings. Here at Tech we coach up the guys we are able to get and we make them into NFL commodities. That says a LOT about our coaches, IMO.
I'm not arguing that point. Part of the problem is that right now we don't even have many 3-stars. A good chunk of our players are two-star and less. There is a limit to the effect of coaching up.
On a more positive note, imagine what our coaches can do with 4 and 5-star recruits! It seems like this could be a really solid recruiting class that will improve the team for years to come.
Just imagine what would happen if we had a coaching staff that started with 4&5-star recruits, instead of the 3-stars?
Seems like I heard these same arguments from supporters of Bowden, Brown & Paterno. You are correct about Stinespring , he will never leave.
Those arguments were probably made stronger by the National Titles those guys won. Two of those jobs have the convenience of being in the most football rich states in our Union (Florida and Texas) and are not nestled in the mountains (like PSU).
PSU got bailed out of an really tough decision by having a child sex scandal and subsequent death of said coach take care of it for them. And even James Franklin got a buffer by not having to be the guy to follow THE GUY.
So: Without the recruiting hotbeds those other states share and without the decades long history of winning those other schools share. Is VT in the same class as Texas or FSU? Can we afford to force out Frank?
Virginia is not chopped liver when it comes to high school talent. We just need to give them a reason to stay home.
I agree, but it would have to be a BIG reason, no time to build one from scatch. Right?
Well, unless you hire someone who is currently on staff , we are going to have to build these recruiting relationships again . Either next year or in 3 or 4 years.
I wouldn't exactly call a child sex scandal and losing scholarships, being "Bailed Out"....
There were calls for Paterno to stepdown starting in the mid 2000s, Paterno had the power of the Football team and that was the money in State College.
The most Famous example I can give you was when Paterno said he didnt even need a contract. I remember thinking that was a loyalty statement and how cool that was. In reality, it was Paterno saying he's to popular to fire, and that the AD can even try. At the time the Board at Penn State was with Paterno, 30 years builds a lot of powerful relationships, If the AD comes out against Joe the Board would have him removed.
But as each year went on those Board members changed or became neutral to Joe. In the year before the scandal happens they are all neutral or negative at Joe due to the current state of Football at Penn State. They all have started to push Joe to retire.
When the Scandal happens not a single Board Member goes out for Joe. He had lost the support and he was forced out. The Board didn't let him retire, they finally had the thing they needed to change things
Was referencing the ends, no really agreeing with the means in that case.
Your Steiny vampire comment = spectacular.
I do not understand that statement. If Frank Beamer is costing the program money, which he is, and it shows in the attendance column, why would he deserve to leave on his own terms? The longer he stays the smaller the revenues and the harder it will be to pay for new coaches that have proven record.
I am not going to put Foster at HC either, he and Beamer do not care about requiting enough. Bud also has some other issues.
Ok. So the next VT head coach should be?
I don't get this
It is not our call to pick the next coach. That is up to Whit. Just because he can't pick out a guy right away that you personally agree with doesn't mean his argument is any less valid.
Our program is losing money now. We got 55k to the game today, our lowest number in 12 years. Financially our football team is not in a good spot right now.
I actually wrote in the forum topic that names and reasoning were interesting, not that his reason are not valid or true. The post was about replacing Frank with a person, wanted to hear who people thought could step in and improve the program.
As bad as we are offensively, there aren't many coaches in the collegiate ranks right now that would have us playing worse, and most would have us playing better
We are a 4-5 team that is 1-4 in ACC play. Let's not pretend we're at this great plateau that is unattainable for the majority of coaches. We're the bottom feeder in the worst Power 5 division in football.
last time I checked we werent in the B1G Ten
Hey, the Big 10 is not that bad....
ok...well at least we have Ohio State, they are having a better season than VT...Wait, crap...
Look a statue of Woody Hayes
* Open door, bolts out
I am going to take so much joy next week when MSU steam rolls tOSU. On another note I am tired of bloggers and commentators saying if tOSU played us now they would easily beat us. No they wouldn't the Penn State game proved it..Stop tOSU's running game and force JT Barret to throw and their offense can't do anything, but hey run up the score against lesser opponents and keep drinking the Kool Aide Columbus
Same story every year for anOSU.
No doubt. I'm sick of Ohio State fans whining about everything. I heard plenty of it after the VT win about "bad calls" and "if we had Braxton...", and we still hear it now. First of all, they wonder why so many people hate them. When you insist on putting THE Ohio State University on everything, it doesn't exactly give off a generous message. Also, it seems like OSU fans are the biggest SEC complainers on the planet. It's no secret ESPN loves the conference and that does get annoying, but OSU's record against SEC schools is laughable. If they really wanted to do something about that, schedule one, just one non-conference SEC opponent every now and then at the beginning of the season. And I also think their defense is flying under the radar. Must I remind, our highest point total came in the OSU and WMU game. Not to mention giving up 24 last week to a very average Penn State team and having to go to 2OT to beat them. I really don't hate the Buckeyes as much as it seems, I just hate when people try to distort truth. And right now, Ohio State simply isn't nearly as good as their fanbase would have you to believe. Not to take anything away from our win, just tired of hearing it from Bucks' fans every weekend
I think it's a fair question to ask. Winning solves that whole financial issue. Who gives us the best chance to win?
'It is not our call to pick the next coach.'
Seriously? This comment on a fan site?
Do you see the books for our athletic program? How do you know that it's losing money? Because a game had low attendance? And is hiring a new coach going to somehow pack the stands? I can tell you that the very small part of our fan base that wants a change at the head coaching spot will not be filling Lane Stadium once it happens. I'll even go out on a limb and say that a lot of big money donors might pull out if Frank is fired.
Its not our call to fire coaches either but seem to have no problem offering that as an option.
It is not our call to pick the next coach. That is up to Whit.
I think it was a hypothetical discussion point for a message board....I don't think we were actually we were actually going to make the head coaching decision.
"It is not our call to pick the next coach. That is up to Whit."
While we are free to have our opinions, it is not our job to fire the current coach either.
It's not our job to call plays on saturdays either, but yet we still speculate on what should/shouldn't be called. This is no different.
Anyways, you don't fire a coach without a contingency plan. Tennessee Football could be a textbook case study regarding what happens when you fire a coach without a plan. I would also hope, that if Frank left on his own terms, that he would give Whit a heads up, and Whit would start planning to replace Frank.
Whit has said that he keeps a list of coaches that he likes for each sport that he would reach out to in the event he ever needs to change. The point of this thread is to assume that Beamer leaves (whether by his own choice or not) and discuss the resumes/personnel that we would like to see at VT after Frank leaves. I thought it was a great forum topic that warranted discussion.
Hell, there's an example right on campus. Didn't seem like there was any sort of plan for a coach post-Greenberg two years ago
Exactly. Because of that debauchery, we are now paying 3 basketball coaches at once. No need to do the same for football. If the staff/team is falling apart, and we need to replace Frank, then we do so, but his firing/replacing should be done methodically, not in the whimsical, hope-for-the-best, manner with which weaver dismissed Greenberg.
Frank does not have a buyout provision, so that argument is totally, completely without merit.
Whether Frank retires or is fired, there is ZERO buyout clause. Frank will get $250K for eight years once he is no longer the head coach, whether he is fired or he retires. As for the staff, only Bud & Loeffler have more than year-to-year contracts, and theirs are two years at a pop. Thus, the MOST that would be owed is one year to Bud & Loeffler, then Frank's $250K.
That is it. Total. No matter what happens or when it happens.
As for the Greenberg payments? This year is the final of his contract years. As for Johnson? next year is the final of his contract years. Greenberg's payout is somewhere in the $350K range, and Johnson's is somewhere in the $250K range. In other words, close to the amount we are losing by not selling out Lane for home games.
While I did referenced coach's salaries, I NEVER suggested that that we should keep/fire a coach because of his salary; merely that one of the downsides of an impromptu firing (in addition to a lousey hire and two years worse off) is that we had to pay three coaches at once. Per my previous comment:
IF it is established that Beamer needs to be replaced (I'm not going to voice my opinion whether/when he does, b/c that was not the intent of this thread) there should be a plan.
Returning to the Weaver/JJ analogy, James Johnson was fired on March 17th. Buzz Williams was hired on March 25. Selection Sunday was on March 16th. Notice how intentional this all feels.
Weaver fired Seth on April 23... after most available coaches had been given jobs.
Since the Miami game happened, I think it is completely fair to question if Beamer is the right man for this job. However, there are other threads to discuss this. I will say that I do not believe our program is so low that ANYTHING is better than Frank Beamer (could change by end of season, but I digress).
If/when Frank needs to be replaced, the plan to find his predecessor should be started long before he is fired. I expect Frank's replacement to be nothing less than a Buzz Williams, and I would be furious if I had experience two years of a James Johnson dumpster fire before getting my Buzz Williams!
Weaver's incompetence is not the fault of the fans.
You don't have to have a solution to see a problem exists. Just because nobody has a cure for cancer or AIDS doesn't mean that anyone who points out that those diseases are a major problem needs to be silenced.
No one is trying to silence you. From the OP:
Perhaps, given that this hypothetical scenario assumes that Beamer has already been fired, the OP should've left out his pro-frank comments (as they are not relevant to the question he is asking). Regardless, if Frank was fired, who would you like to see considered? I think it's a reasonable question.
There's also a risk/reward with a new hire. Not a risk (other than financial) to cure AIDS, just reward. I suppose it's difficult to answer the OP question without offering your own risk/reward opinion.
Mark Hudspeth is considered up an comer.
Pat Narduzzi
Scott Frost
Rhett Lashlee
Jim McElwain
Mark Richt- been contacted
There really isnt a name on that list I dont like as a HC. On the Coordinator level, some guys I would keep a close eye on as maybe future HC's in a few years are Jeremy Pruitt, Charles Kelly, Scottie Montgomery, and Kurt Roper. All Jimbo Fisher, Mark Richt, and David Cuttcliff disciples, and all coaches who's system and success I think could be translated to VT.
Not Beamer or Foster. Don't care hope they have a great resume
........Hugh Freeze coached at high school before getting a shot at Arkansas St
Yet they still changed his name for the movie....
Well the most familiar face that wont cause an uproar, is Bud Foster. Im tellin ya, it wont be bad. That intensity and agressiveness will seep down to the players. Look, other than being too agressive, how many questions have we had with our defensive coaches?
We've only questioned, fired, and re questioned the offensive coaches. The program should have turned a leaf years ago. Other programs that weren't good when we were a top team, now have turned it around.
Are you looking at the attendance in a vacuum? Last week was PACKED and tell me the last time this program won a game that carried the magnitude of the OSU game? There are few. Very few, even in the best seasons of the last 20 years.
We're a spoiled bunch, guys. I don't care what conference we're in, very few programs have had the consistent success that VT experienced for so long and the reality is, no team reloads every year for decades on end. LSU was a JOKE at certain points in the 90's for a good example. I am not saying we've reached their heights, but in the last 20 years, we haven't reached their lows either - yet. (waits for this year to wrap up).
We are down but Frank Beamer built and solidified high expectations for VT and if we make the right moves, which I think we have by replacing a lot of our offensive staff, we will be up again sooner or later.
I am not sure why you are singling out games to prove points. It is a fact that donations are down and tickets remain unsold. If what you see on the field is not enough to convince you things are going downhill fast, then too bad.
I cant argue the donations because I don't have any facts to back up the donation revenue. It is also a fact that sports teams results vary significantly over a period of twenty years and we had some FAT years leading up to 'bad' seasons in which we've still managed to qualify for bowl games.
To me, scrapping our staff now implies a belief that things will not trend up again any time soon and I don't fall in that camp. Our recruiting the last two years has been memorable and recruiting pays dividends for good coaches - Frank Beamer is a good football coach. Therefore, I think we should wait a bit.
Here us the issue. With 3 games left to play , one would expect some improvement with the team, and that clearly is not the case.
We are going to change the OC after the season. Then we get to hear the same excuses about learning the system ,and recruiting the right players, it will never end, we know how that looks like.
Clean house now and start from the ground up. At least then we can wait for 3 years and see how things go. With the right coach that has a clue how modern football is played, and decent OC we should be able to bounce back pretty fast.
Why do you assume we will be changing OCs after the season?
I think the argument that we havent seen any improvement is flawed. Compared to 1 month ago, I've seen noticeable improvement in Brewer's play. There was not 1 time today, or even last week where I thought "what the hell is Brewer thinking?" Can we give the coaches some credit there?
We are not changing OC after the season.
We cleaned house and that process started less than two years ago, and our best players on the field are true freshmen - at testament to......the coaches? If three years is the magic number can we at least wait three years before we reset the approach?
A decent OC is not the only thing that facilitates a quick rebound. You have to have the players. We have some guys that will develop into great players, and if we're not producing once that happens, I am open to the discussion. Until then, the best way to predict future results is to look at past results. Frank has some of the best credentials in the game so cleaning house is a knee-jerk reaction in my opinion.
This was by far Brewer's best game yet. Sadly, it didn't end with a win (weird how that works out). But if he continues to build on today, I really like what our offense will be able to do the remainder of his career.
Brewer has never been the problem, it's the play calling & poor o line play . We had 32 rushing yards today.( excluding Dinardos run)
Brewer's turnovers were a HUGE problem in the GT game.
It's hard to throw a completed pass when you have 3 or 4 defensive linemen hanging on you.
Brewer has never been the only problem.
N-A-T-I-O-N-A-L
C-H-A-M-P-I-O-N-S-H-I-P-S
WINNING THOSE AND PLAYING FOR THEM HELPS
A LOT
So few coaches do that. I would rather have a known quantity coach known for consistently good play than take a gamble on a coach that we don't know if he can win a national championship or not.
If you want a coach who has won a national championship already, I gotta tell you, they ain't coming to blacksburg. They're staying where they are.
Have the hokies been good these past few weeks? No. Have they been good this season? No. Does that mean we give up on a coach who took us to the greatest heights our program has ever reached? Maybe. It depends on whether or not the problems on offense are rooted in an outdated coaching philosophy that Frank refuses to abandon, and whether or not our young players can become something in the upcoming season. I think people forget sometimes that Bud Foster is an insane mad genius who makes fantastic defenses when young players are on the field where other coordinators would have liabilities.
Scott Loeffler is not a Bud Foster level insane mad genius. We knew that going in. We also knew that the system he wanted to run was designed for long term success rather than immediate success. Sure, some coaches are able to do both, but they are generally Bud Foster level insane mad geniuses. We said going into this that we would wait for the 2015 season to decide whether or not Scott Loeffler was a good hire or not, and personally, I am willing to stand by what I said last season.
I've spent the majority of my life watching Frank Beamer put together teams that won football games. I have faith that the Hokies won't be terrible forever. And let's keep in mind that our last two seasons, which were the worst that our program has seen in a long time, were winning seasons. This season is shaping up to be a mess, I agree, but I think it is best to stay calm, see where our next season takes us. For what it's worth, I remember listening to Joe say on the radio that he thought that we could win a bunch of games or miss a bowl. We're still within the realm of reasonable expactations.
Good, level-headed post.
Our last 2 seasons were winnng season if you include non P5 teams
Tech was 10-10 against P5 teams
Since Monday night against Gt til Saturday Tech is 12 - 14 against P5 teams
And P5 includes Coastal Chaos of the ACC
Yea Tech is Good
But when Tech played its first Bowl Game it was one of 34 teams playing a Bowl Game, this year there will be 70 teams playing a Bowl Game
Since 2002 we've only played 8 Top 10 teams going 2 - 6, 11 - 14 against Top 25 teams in that same time
Spoiled? we only play 2 good teams a year and only win half
If you're pissed off about production dating back to 2002 then go find another team to pull for.
I think this is a good point. The fact that we have the longest bowl streak going right now tells me that every other team out there has had a losing season since we have (or maybe a couple had bowls vacated for violations, the point still stands). Every program goes through down periods, doesn't always mean it's time to dump the folks that got you to the highs.
FSU's streak is longer at over 30 years.
But we're the longest without vacated games/seasons. I've seen several press outlets and the NCAA laud us as the longest active streak because of this.
Agree completely. Well said. Hindsight is 20/20. Better to do it sooner rather than later..
So what's the answer? See, I actually like the point of this post. For the very small (and believe me it's small) portion of the entire fan base saying Frank has to go, nobody follows that up with their proposed plan. My boss has a saying that bringing up a problem without a proposed solution is just bitching. Mindless bitching. I tend to agree.
So who's the new coach? It's not going to be Bud Foster. And I personally don't think it should be. He's not political enough to be a HC. He's kind of a hot head in case y'all haven't noticed. Those guys normally don't make very good head coaches. He's also not a recruiting genius. So what does Bud Foster bring to the table as a head coach? Is he going to pump new life into the program? I doubt it. If he was going to do that, he probably would've already done it. I'm sure he doesn't like losing and I'm sure he's done as much as he can do to change things. And I'm sure Frank gives his long time friend and partner plenty of latitude to make those changes.
I personally agree with the post and believe that Frank has earned his right to leave when he's ready. Because pardon my being blunt but none of you would be bitching about a coaching change if Frank Beamer hadn't spoiled your asses to think VT was some powerhouse program that deserves 11 wins every year because they're Virginia Tech. Some of y'all need to take a step back and realize what school we're talking about here. We're a middle tier football brand. Like TCU, or West Virginia. We aren't FSU, Alabama, Michigan, Texas, or Southern Cal. Some of y'all need some perspective honestly.
Our program has played for one (1) National Championship ever! And we lost. I'm not saying you need to expect or accept mediocrity but 8 or 9 wins a year and a bowl win is pretty damn respectable for a program like Virginia Tech. And yeah I realize we have a losing record right now. We also have a damn team full of freshmen and our 3rd offensive line coach in as many years. But we probably won't ever be an elite program that's a national title contender year in and year out. I'm ok with that. Mostly because my paycheck doesn't change whether we do or we don't. But I'm still going to be loyal to the man that built this podunk little mountain football program into at least something that ESPN will occasionally talk about. Because after Frank leaves and we start experimenting with other coaches, those days might be over and we might be just as irrelevant as we were before Frank Beamer. And I don't know about y'all but Frank Beamer has coached at VT since I was eight years old and has been my lifelong sports hero, I'm going to miss him when he's gone. There's some things in life that are more important than bragging rights about winning a ball game that none of us ever played or coached in.
You lost me when you turned overly condescending and started telling everyone about how you're such a better fan than us because we've been so spoiled over the years.
Absolutely no need for that kind of message here.
I didn't get that impression.
I don't think I ever said I was a better fan than anyone. But I stand by my opinion that some VT fans have become spoiled for no other reason than the very coach they want to put out to pasture has built a winning program when the conditions haven't really been set to do so. But that's cool, I didn't post my comment to win a popularity contest. Just share a perspective. Sorry if you're offended by that.
damn i felt bad for my first downvoted post then worse when i saw even more of my post destroyed
But damn as a high legger you got killed. so have a leg
spoiled your asses to think VT was some powerhouse program that deserves 11 wins every year because they're Virginia Tech.
I don't think our asses have been spoiled. I have supported this time no matter what, without question. This team and its fans has earned and been deserving of everything it has achieved.
This attitude of accepting mediocrity because we "Don't deserve better"...well, that is the attitude that will keep our team 6-6 for eternity. This is Virginia Tech...dare to dream.
I don't accept this status quo bullshit....We have to be prepared to change, whether it is right now, or whether it is when Beamer steps down. Either way, change is coming...
So you're saying we have to Invent the Future....
I agree with this, though I have no solution to the problem, nor am I advocating in any direction of a head coach change (or not).
But I don't believe anyone has "earned" the right to stay in a position based simply on past accolades. I had a professor/advisor/mentor in my undergrad who had been in the position longer than I have been alive. And he was doing an awful job. He was educated at one of the best schools in the country, put out some incredible students in years past, but could not have been any more complacent. The students knew it, the faculty knew it, but there was nothing that could be done about it... Because he had tenure. It was honestly disgusting how little he tried to better his students, and how much he didn't seem to realize that he was doing something wrong. Though the past should not be discounted at all, much more weight should be put on recent times.
Are things that bad? Maybe not. They're certainly not what we're used to, but there is still room to get a hell of a lot worse. I love CFB, and I don't want to see him messily forced out. But I also love the Hokies, and I want to see them win. I have no solution I feel strong enough to advocate for, other than trust in my college that if there is a better solution, they will find it.
I hear Brady Hoke will be available. That guy won a sugar bowl you know
Only Denard Robinson is laughing.
Oh Crap...
Danny Coale just texted me. He tracked down your IP address and has gotten your address from google maps. I'd lock the door if I were you.
Closed doors are nothing to Danny Coale. He ate the "always open" devil's fruit. He can make anything open.
I believe you are mistaken. Danny Coale caught a game winning TD.
Anyone whose name can be incorporated into a cliche "chokie" comment is not welcome.
Or Pie, he is versatile
Who are we kidding, he would work for leftover candy korn at this point
As far as HC's I couldn't tell you who I would want...I would take option 1 because I want a hungry head coach as you mentioned 'known' coaches tend to have baggage which I would not want to deal with...As for Frank I would not fire him just "promote" him to Assistant AD for Football Operations or something and let him do donation events and be seen around the program with no day to day responsibilities because he did build this program and there is a lot of history there...I get the feeling he would enjoy more normal working hours and getting to spend more time with his grand kids
I don't know Frank personally. But he seems to me the kind of guy who wouldn't want overshadow his successor like that. In my opinion, he seems like the guy who would rather just step aside and let the new guy have his own shot, with his own team, without the Ghost of Frank wandering the Burg. Just a feeling. Sure, we could use his presence and the entire region woud love to still see him around town, but I don't think that is his style.
"I wouldn't want to be a bother. I'll just sip on my sweet tea and no one need make a fuss over Ol Frank anymore. But watch those expectations, they'll get after ya"
-Frank
New contract includes after he retires as coach, for eight years at an annual salary of $250,000 as AD assistant
I take it back, guess he has plans to be around. Comment retracted.
makes it even easier to ask frank to retire/step down because he will still be involved but then VT could get some youth into the coaching staff and implement a fun offense to watch instead of the dumpster fire we get for 3 1/2 qtrs then 1/2 qtr of lefty's actual offense
He was born and raised in this area. He's not going anywhere.
#1 Is working out pretty well for UVA:
He Hungry... He Hungry
I don't think Frank is a bad head coach at all... I compare this situation a lot to Andy Reid in Philadelphia. This program just needs a different voice for once. I think he's a little behind the 8ball in current trends in cfb, which is keeping us down. We just need a different leader in Bburg, and we will see results very quickly. I am hearing a lot about Pep Hamilton. Granted, I don't believe he would leave his cushy gid in Indy, but you never know.
So the guy that has been riding Andrew Luck's coat-tails so hard that he has rugburns on his hands is going to step in and get his first headcoaching gig as the guy to replace Frank Beamer? Luck still has at least a decde left in the league, he'd be wise not to kill the golden goose.
I'd be fine with it.
If Richt is finally done at UGA like many of their fans think he is than I think Whit would go hard after him. He's one of the few coaches in the country that could convince Bud and co. to stay IMO.
I'm willing to bet him and Pep are the top two candidates right now if Frank were to step down.
This could work. The man knows the region, has had success but run into some better teams (DAMN YOU NICK SABEN AND LES MILES, DAMN YOU!!!). He has the gravitas to handle it and his ass has to be made of teflon to handle the hot-seat and expectations of UGA, so he won't care about winning any opinion polls around town.
Agreed, he could turn recruiting around quickly as well.
He also knows how to reliably beat GT.
That's not a bad combo. Richt knows the offense and Bud knows the defense.
(Just thinking in the hypothetical sense.)
If I'm not mistaken, didn't Richt go after Foster for Georgia at least twice, including two years ago? I'm pretty sure Richt could keep him around. Provided Foster got a raise... and Richt gets hired.
I live in Georgia and I can't stand the crap that people say about Couch Richt. I think he runs a great program and I would love him as a head coach.
If Foster is smart he stays to be the defensive coordinator and retires when he wants. He is a legend at Virginia Tech and I'd hate to see his legend get tarnished by trying to be a head coach. Think about that. What would you think if Bud took over and we had seasons where the team did not make it to .500?
Better keep him away from Morgantown.
I've thought this was a similar situation to Andy as well...the 2 differences being that Frank's been here much longer than Reid was there, and that the drawn-out end of his tenure will have much longer-lasting damage due to hits taken in recruiting. Not looking forward to it at all.
Good point...if you announce that Beamer is leaving after say, 2016, then he kind of becomes a lame duck coach...this will have an effect on recruiting for sure.
I vote Chad Morris
Good idea.
But he is one of (if not the) highest paid assistant in the country. He is like Ringo Starr. It might be more beneficial to be in the Beatles and not be a headliner
And...his fanbase wants him gone.
He's been my choice for a while. I remember CFB saying that he had a lot of respect for his offense and Morris was the one who got Brewer in touch with us. Now the question is are we going to click with a more offensive-minded head coach?
My thoughts are that we need to be planning less for Franks replacement, and more for his replacement's replacement. We need to accept the first transition will probably be a pit rough, not everyone will buy in, and lots of comparisons will be made. But we as both a school and fanbase need to get used to getting on the coaching carousel now and again. We need to lay down the money to show that we are willing to bring in the top talent to go with our new facilities.
We need to show that Blacksburg is a destination not just for a good ambitious HC, but also those young rising assistants, that is how you build coaching trees and it is not incompatible with a positive staff atmosphere. The game has changed in so many ways and seems to still be evolving, those occasional injections of new blood are crucial for staying up to date around the country, and can help us find our "new" Beamer Ball, we didnt grow by doing what everyone else was, but by experimenting and going against established wisdom.
In all honesty I think Frank has shown us where he is now, and unfortunately it looks like the end phase of most other big name coaches. There will always be those few missing pieces from any remaining teams of his. And the next coach will probably only be a bit better. But if we can show we are serious, then after that I think is when we can have laid the groundwork for the home run hire.
Whit has shown that he swings for the fences with Buzz and Tommy at UC. You better believe Whit will be opening the checkbook to 3.5-4mm to get our next head coach. We never thought we had the wallet to spend 2.6 on Buzz. Don't underestimate the guts of Whit.. he gets it
He is a big reason I am optimistic about getting the right guy when it comes time. I just think a lot of potentials are going to be turned off by being the 1st guy after Frank. But if we show that the support, and money continues to flow, then we will be a much more attractive destination going forward.
Following Frank is like following Tommy Lee with Pam Andrerson.
Sure she is (was at the time) still smoking hot, but how you gonna measure up
Exactly, my whole point was that no matter who we hire for the 1st replacement it probably will be rough. But we need to continue to pay, and support and give them an honest chance (4-5years) but then be ready to do the same thing over again and with some distance hopefully get that A-list or at least high B-list name to really get the ball rolling again.
Agree, let whit do his job, I trust he will do the correct thing for the program.
I agree, but the decision to think ahead and find someone shouldn't be made public until the right time. We dont want a circus.
I don't think you can go into the process of making your next hire with the attitude that you are going to be firing the guy....I don't think Whit is the kind of guy to take that approach. I think he goes into the process with the attitude, "We are going to get this right".
Remember a couple of years back when Tenn pushed out Fulmer. I fear if we do that with Beamer we will be in worse shape than we thought.
I am really looking forward to the day Whit makes all this hand wringing look silly in retrospect.
We heard this same kind of horror story prognostication when people wanted James Johnson out and that ended pretty well. And that was for basketball. I have all the faith in the world Whit will do whats necessary to make us a great program again. He's already proven he knows what he's doing.
We should probably let Buzz coach a game first... (Not disagreeing, I supported the ousting of JJ for Buzz) I just wouldn't draw conclusions before a game is played.
I also don't think people are hand-wringing. A lot of us believe that Beamer can lead us back to being a great football team.
James Johnson and Frank Beamer aren't even in the same galaxy. Can't even believe people put the two in the same sentence when talking about finding a replacement. Face it, Frank Beamer is VT football. It's not going to be as easy to just push him aside and begin the rise to greatness as some of you think.
I'm just glad that every team that changes coaches returns to their former level. Oh wait.....
I don't fear change but the change we are talking about here is more of a coin flip than a certainty. For every example that works there are examples where it didn't
And yea they went through some rough times, and the Kiffin shit show, but if they can keep Butch Jones for a few more years, he will have something special, and is young enough to do it for 20 years more.
true story, homie
hahahaha
you mean the only coach to win a national championship and not win a conference championship before being forced out
Bowden, Brown, Fulmer, and Paterno
Between the 4, There were - 19 Conference Championships won, 6 National Championships Won, and 4 Heisman Trophy winners, yet in the Last 6 years of each of their careers they won only one conference championship before being forced out.
Except Fulmer who couldn't win one of the 3 Conference Championship games he Coached in during his last 6 years
UT fans don't regret pushing Fulmer out when they did, even after Kiffin and Dooley. Now, most were upset when Kiffin left after one season and clearly Dooley was a terrible hire, but that doesn't mean keeping Fulmer was the right thing to do.
Frank Beamer won't be coaching forever (I expect him to be back next year, short of a major scandal), but if his successor is a scumbag like Petrino (who lost to Mike London's LOLuva as it so happens) or similar, VT will never see a donation from me again. I don't want a program that makes the headlines for "lack of institutional control" or similar offenses.
I get that hiring an outright scumbag would be an extremely poor decision, but we did have the Marcus Vick era and some other less than proud moments and would hope those don't continue to define VT for the rest of time.
I think it is very insulting to Whit Babcock to insinuate he would ever hire a 'scumbag' coach. Whit is a man of integrity, and to pretend otherwise is beyond foolish and closeminded, it's just fearmongering as a way of refusing the concept of eventual change in the football head coaching position.
All these people who wrongly say 'Frank Beamer IS Virginia Tech football!' are actually making the claim that once Frank leaves, this program he built over the decades will crumble. That sounds like a very weak program to me. I think Frank built a program strong enough to last beyond his retirement. I really have zero respect for the Chicken Littles who cluck that no other head coach could ever succeed here.
This statement could not be more true and you rightfully deserve all the legs you'll eventually get. People don't realize that it's actually a bit insulting to Frank and VT to keep saying this program will inevitably fall apart the second he retires. It's insulting to Whit to automatically assume the guy is incapable of hiring a good replacement. It's insulting to Frank to think that he built a program so weak that it's entirely dependent on the guy in charge to be good. It'd insulting to the players we have on the team to say they are only playing at the level they are because of the guy in charge. And it's insulting to all the donors to say their funds are worthless and have no bearing on the state of the program.
VT football is bigger than Frank Beamer. We will survive after he is gone.
And Frank knows this to.
My list for head coaches this is just off the top of my head:
Mike Tomlin, Pittsburgh Steelers
Chad Morris, Clemson
Mark Hudspeth, Louisiana-Lafayette
Pat Narduzzi, Michigan State DC
Rhett Lashlee, Auburn OC
Matt Wells, Utah State
Bud Foster, Virginia Tech DC
Matt Campbell, Toledo
Joey Jones, South Alabama
Mark Richt, Georgia
Scott Frost, Oregon OC
Kevin Sumlin, aTm
Kliff Kingsbury, TT
Throw shit against the wall to see if it sticks at this point.
If Bud doesn't want to stay with these offensive coaches bring back Wayne Ward, let him and Torrian Gray be Co-DC
Todd Washington Offensive Line Coach
Kevin Jones Running Backs Coach
Tomlin would be really interesting if he gets fired this year, but I doubt he'd want to come here and I'm not sure I'd really want him. He's been in the NFL for so long that I don't really see him as being someone that would want to come here and stay for a significant amount of time. He's a very successful NFL coach and I think he would go running back to the NFL if someone called, and given his success, someone will call. If that happens then we're right back to searching for a new coach.
I understand that totally. I am just giving names. Tomlin was born in Va. Played ball as a wide receiver at William and Mary and got his start coaching at VMI. Sounds like a great fit if he would pull the trigger.
I know it's just a hypothetical, he was just a really interesting name that popped off the list that I never thought of. He would definitely be a great fit but I just don't see him really wanting to get away from the NFL. But as they say, "money talks", so you never know. Leg for the idea.
The problem I'd have with Kevin Jones is that he was so damn natural at the position. Did he spend hours practicing the fundamentals? My gut says no.
For a position coach you want more of a Cedric Humes than a Kevin Jones. A baller who put in the hours and had to develop to earn playing time.
I just want someone that has been coached in the league, to take over at RB coach. I want them to know what drills to run these kids through to make them better. Not a long snapper hitting them with a god damn boxing glove on a broom. Lee Suggs comes to mind also or Ken Oxendine.
I don't know why, but your comment and tone made me laugh a good hearty laugh. I'm not laughing at you at all. Just the tone about the boxing glove.
I can see Shanes face knocking the balls out. Like a kid who thinks that giving people wet willies when the family gets together for Thanksgiving is funny. You hate it, but you know you can't slap him without catching major heat.
Good then you took it the way I meant it. It's ridiculous having someone that has never played the position coach it. I'm sure Shane would be a fine special teams coach.
Plenty of coaches coach positions or entire schemes, special teams offensive and defensive, without having played that position in college, or played college football at all.
David Cutcliffe, Charlie Weiss, mike Leach, high freeze, Paul Johnson, bob Hauck,Sonny Dykes and George O'Leary are the 8 HC who never played a down of college football.
Thank you. And Shane's had 2 SEC coaching jobs prior to coming back to VT where he was spoken very highly of. People act like the only reason Shane Beamer is on the staff is because his dad is the big whistle. One of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. If he didn't have a clue what he was doing, none of those other position coaches would stand for him being there. Frank is running a business and he's been pretty good at it for the past 28 years.
That's fine I understand that. They have great football minds. If you think Shane is a great football mind and is doing a good job at coaching the running backs then more power to you. What I'm saying is we have former players that played in the NFL that are now coaches or interested in getting into coaching. It's ridiculous not too use that to our advantage. Think about it would you rather have Shane Beamer teaching you how to hit a hole or read blocks or would you rather have KJ.
So your solution is to bring in a former player who has never coached at any level? Makes sense/sarcasm font/
Yup your right a long snapper with a boxing glove on a broom is alot better than a player that has been coached on collegiate and professional levels. I'm glad you are forward thinking this has put us in the position we are currently in.
I'm not saying a former player is any better or worse, but to replace someone who worked up through the coaching ranks to this position with someone who has never coached at any level is absurd . Torrian Gray former player, coaches at a FCS program first. There is a reason only 6 NFL HC played in the league, it's not as important as you think it is. Can it help yes, but to bring a guy with ZERO coaching experience into a FBS program as his first job as a position coach is almost unheard of.
I know it's unheard of my point is that Shane sucks as a running back coach. Let him coach special teams. We need a running back coach that knows what they are doing coaching RB's. At least a former running back would know what the hell they are doing substitution wise. I understand your point. Just stop being an apologist. Change needs to be made. If you are happy where we are now more power to you, problem is 90% of the fanbase isn't happy.
So your understand that its A) not done often B) not really that important, but you still want to see it?
You are missing the point. My point is even you could be a better RB coach than Shane and if you're a better coach don't you think KJ would be a step above you?
I don't think a player with no prior coaching experience could walk into tech and take over the RB coaching and make a difference. You harp on things like the boxing glove fumble drill, are you unaware that is fairly common at all levels of coaching for players with fumble problems.
Good try Shane. It's fine just have to agree to disagree that's the great thing about conversation on The Key Play. You are taking everything I say seriously when what I'm saying is anyone could what Shane is doing. I would rather KJ hit them with a boxing glove and be able to talk to them in game about what they are seeing and help them make changes during the game if need be. Also if your a running back in high school would you rather Shane be your position coach or KJ.
Lulz downvotes I don't think Shane and the rest of his TSL fanboys understand that legs don't matter.
Legs do matter, but just for expressing your opinion you should not get a downvote. I don't agree with you but that's what posting is for to talk about varying opinions. Voted up to balance out NOT because I think your opinion was correct.
Have you been to a practice and seen both Shane and KJ coach running backs? I get the sense you have thoroughly evaluated both of them and intelligently assessed the situation. Clearly, based on your evaluation, KJ is the better and more qualified running backs coach. I think you should write up a proposal and pitch it to Whit Babcock.
I think your view on this is a little naive, honestly...sorry dude.
I was a little harsh with my sarcasm Hokiebengal. Sorry for that...clearly, frustration is growing with the Hokie fan base. We are all lashing out at each other.
Although I disagree with you, my apologies for my method of disagreement.
Everything is open for discussion.
Bro that downvote isn't from me I don't give a shit if you agree with me or not. I guess you guys are right a long snapper with a boxing glove is alot better than anything else out there. I guess my point wasn't coming across Shane needs to be sent to special teams/recruiting coordinator period. We then need to make an actual hire of someone that knows what the fuck they are doing with running backs. Calvin Magee would be a great hire if you don't know who that is you can go ahead and google him. What I'm saying is we can groom someone. Someone that loves Tech as much as the rest of us and I think that Kevin Jones fits that, he could also give us another great recruiting edge. Shane is great at Recruiting let him stick to that. Maybe if people weren't looking for a reason to be condescending they could read text on the internet. Basically whether it came out the way I wanted it to or not, it wasn't that KJ is right now a better coach than Shane. He isn't. It's that he would have a chance to be. Thanks for the reply though.
I am not defending or condemning Shane, but if you move Shane to special teams/recruiting coordinator and bring in a new RB coach, which other coach are you getting rid of to open up that spot? NCAA rules limit your staff to one head coach and nine assistants. Your scenario would require someone to lose their job to make room for the new RB coach.
This is a hypothetical situation in which Beamer is gone. I am just giving my opinion into what we could do in the case that Beamer does get canned/steps down. I am neither for it nor against it personally I don't care one way or another OP just asked what coaches could be considered so let's think this out.
I am Whit Babcock, today is Nov. 29th 2014 the day before you lost to UVA, have a losing record for the year, and you aren't going to a bowl for the first time in a generation. Today you come into the office at 9:00 a.m. and find Frank waiting on you. He has been there since 7:00 a.m. needing to get something off of his chest. You go into your office and sit him down and he starts to speak and tears well in his eyes. He wants to step down from the program he has built from nothing. But he wants to stay in the athletic department as Assistant to the AD and pull his 250k per year. He begs you to find someone for the program that will take it to the next level. A level he could never get to but was close on more than one occasion.
Who do you go after? Let's say for the sake of arguing Bud doesn't want it but if I hire the right guy he will stay (spread offense). Most of the staff would like to stay on here at Virginia Tech since Frank stepped down and was not forced out. They would like to keep the recruiting class in place. I know what Bud has said in the past so you start sifting through Head Coaches and Offensive Coordinators. I do 20 interviews for the Head Coach and you finally come to the conclusion Mark Hudspeth of Louisiana-Lafayette is my guy. He is who I want to lead my team for the next 2 decades.
Of note the only person that wants out is Charlie Wiles and he retires.
I then start talking to Mark about OC's I have done research knowing in the back of my mind that we want to keep Bud. We settle on Jason Candle of Toledo to run the offense. Here is how the rest of the staff shakes out:
Head Coach: Mark Hudspeth
OC/QB: Jason Candle
OL: Todd Washington
WR: Aaron Moorehead
RB: Calvin Magee
TE: Bryan Stinespring
DC/LB:Bud Foster
DB: Torian Gray
DL: Cornell Brown
Special Teams/Recruiting Coordinator: Shane Beamer
That's 9 assistants, that is how I would like to see it play out if he does step down in a hypothetical situation.
So a factual post listing college coaches that never played college football gets downvoted, some people really are that in need of Beamer getting fired?
It was a really good list until you included Sumlin. He turned down $4-5m from USC last year. He's not leaving ATM.....for VT at least.
But thanks for the list, these usually just get picked apart. But this is week thought out.
Yeah that was the throw shit against the wall to see if it sticks approach. Sort of like last call at Big Al's you start at the prettiest girl and work your way down.
Virginia Tech does not and never will have to resort to a "throw shit at the wall" approach to hiring a coach.
Save that for UVA....
"Hey Kevin....Whit and the executive board team were throwing shit against the wall and your name came up....You interested?"
I will take the job, but I'm not sure I'm qualified
Hey dude, don't sell yourself short. I'm sure you'd be great, especially since the extra 'vv' in kevin kinda look like a 'w'.
I'd rather see a blackhole open up at the 50 yard line of Worsham Field than for us to hire Kliff Kingsbury. That program is a heat sinking missile heading straight for a dumpster fire.
but he's just soooo dreamy
I'm pretty sure Chad Morris would get an interview. And I dig that.
We would, but would he really be down to be HC? Or would this be a pay-the-man move to get Klempson to pay him even more
Be a nice reversal having one of there Assistance get more money from them by interviewing with us (cough) bud (cough)
He's said he would like to coach at VT before. I don't have a link but I think I saw it on 247 awhile back.
1) I'm guessing Chad Morris is a competitive guy and he wants to be a head coach.
2) They're not paying Chad Morris more or equivalent compared to Dabo Swinney - Dabo makes $3.15 M and Morris $1.3 - VT could possibly offer a salary in the $3M range, but they still must pay the current coaches.
Frank Beamer is paid ~$2.5M until 2018 (raises $0.25M a year) - however, I see no information on clauses on "termination" which may exist and not published in the news.
Bud Foster is paid $0.5M a year until? He gets a $0.8M annuity this year
No other coach is under contract, but instead under letters of appointment. Thus no guarantee of future payment.
So, VT is only on the hook for Beamer and Foster.
Coaches Salaries
Beamer's Extenstion
Is Chad Morris a product of having Tajh Boyd (great college qb), Sammy Watkins.... Clemsom scored 16 against Syracuse and 17 against BC
My only question is this: Do you see us winning a National Championship with Frank Beamer as HC? I cannot convince myself to say yes as much as I want to. As great as a person that Frank is and as much as I love the guy, we have to do something to reach the goal we have set for ourselves.
EDIT: With that said, the football program is in for big changes soon. I can't say exactly what will happen but the staff will not be anything near what it is now. Beamer is gone for many reasons and I think it happens sooner than later. Longer it takes, longer it takes for program to get right. And it's not because of this season or the one before it, but the last 10. Yes, a lot of games were won, but a lot of games were lost and a lot of opportunities missed. Beamer is a great guy and okay coach. A lot of things should have been differently and things needed to be changed. Beamer failed to do so and this season is the breaking point where you see the reprocussions of previous 10 years. VT football will no longer be as you think of it, and that is a good thing. It's your move Whit, use it wisely.
Beamer was a great coach during his prime, but I agree it is getting to that time where it's time to move on.
I don't see us winning a national championship under anyone. That's not a realistic goal. We can have a good season with the right personnel (read: experienced QB at the same time you have a good defense) and get in the conversation, but we can do that under FB. We can do what Miss St is doing this year, but winning a title shouldn't be their goal like it is at Bama. It's consequence of achieving our other goals.
You've got to be kidding me. How is winning a national championship not any programs ultimate goal?! You're basically saying that you're happy with a bowl game and if that bowl game happens to be the national championship after winning the acc then that's just the icing on the cake. Our goal day 1 every year should be to win that trophy. When you set expectations lower than ultimate victory you're never going to achieve ultimate victory.
Yeah, it's not my goal. It's not realistic.
What is realistic is to:
1 be the best program in the state,
2 be the best at recruiting Va
3 be a relevant recruiter throughout the east,
4 spot recruit elite talent in other regions,
5 be a threat to win our division every year,
6 be explosive enough on both offense and defense to beat any national power in any single game (like FSU in the ACCCG)
If we do those things and a NC opportunity happens, great. But it's not my goal for the program.
What a great message to send to recruits...
"Hey, just to let you know, we're not here to win National Titles, we're just here to be the good team in our own bubble. If you want to go play for national championships, your best bet is to go elsewhere"
Our goal is to win the National Championship. Period. This is the message we send to the fans and its the message we send to the players. All your goals can and will be accomplished by setting your goal to be the best of the best. In fact, its essentially a road map in how to get there, but to say we aren't striving to be the best? No.
It may be the "goal" but the reality is that in the BCS era everyone that has won the title has been a traditional power (with maybe the exception of Tennessee in 1998). Nobody has joined the club, not even Oregon with all of the NIke money. You have to go back to 1991 (Washington)/1990 (GT/Colorado)/1984 (BYU) to find teams like us.
It's honest. I think VT football gets confused over our ceiling because we were a quarter away....,but that was fifteen years ago in a different era with a team with all the perfect pieces in a season of luck. That could happen again, but it would be the result of achieving all the more realistic goals.
It might be easier to look at what Buzz is selling. If he is telling recruits we can win a national title, that's fine but we all realize that isn't realistic. He's selling an opportunity to be competitive in the ACC, become better men and play in front of a fan base that cares. He's selling a balanced experience.
My personal goal isn't to make the most money I can, it is to live a balanced life between my profession and family and to do something meaningful in both. If I wanted the most money, I would have made many different decisions. If we want to win a title, we need to make different decisions. If we want to be a program that wins enough to fulfill this fan and be nationally relevant, then we make another set of decisions.
I'm not where you NC guys are and I know there is a lot of the fan base that agrees. This decision, however, will encapsulate that divide.
Comparing the basketball and football programs are comparing apples to oranges. The VT basketball team has been bad for basically ever.Out of the 8 total NCAA Tourney appearances, the last 3 are '07,'96, and '86. Obviously Buzz can't sell the national title argument because the program has NEVER been relevant. He is in the process of rebuilding from basically scratch.
The football team however has been nationally relevant and in the title contention a lot in previous years. Now the program is declining. It's hard to argue that our goal isn't to win a national title when we had a case dedicated to that exact goal used to motivate everyone in the office and on the team. Unfortunately, the team has declined in general and that goal is a little out of reach at this moment, which goes back to my argument of replacing Frank. Not because he's having a few bad seasons, but because this program is not going to return to that level while Beamer is here.
i hear ya and don't necessarily disagree but here's the issue. CFB has said time and time again that his goal is to win the coastal, get to the ACCCG, see if you can get lucky in the ACCCG and then it's out of our hands as far as the national title goes. If taken literally, above winning the coastal as a hard goal, the rest is up to the football gods. people have taken issue with this in the past and i can definitely understand why. in addition to that, a lot of people point to his actions. have his actions always aligned with a program with their eyes 100% on the prize? i'd say no based on holding onto his coaches for 4-5 years too long and using 10 wins as the reason to do so. It just smelled of complacency and to some people it smelled like crap...thus the vitriole over the empty trophy case. don't get me wrong, i understand the point of the case but to some, his actions didn't align themselves with the ultimate goal of a national championship.
just to clarify, i'm not really aligning myself either way but just pointing out where some people are making fair points. it's all up for conversation imo.
Couldn't agree more with Alum07.
I thought people would disagree, but not because of this. Of course they want to win the National Championship. It's every single person associated with football in any way's goal. That is the exact reason that players play the game and coaches coach. Yes, the goals you listed must be achieved, but those are the stepping stones to the ultimate goal. I made a similar post on another thread and someone responded that they will want Frank to leave when the program becomes complacent. It appears that you have. When you said we need a good quarterback and a good defense and you'll be happy? You mean a magician at quarterback and a good Bud defense? We have neither. And by the way, that is not good coaching. Relying on Tyrod or a Vick to make a play is actually terrible coaching, and I'm sorry that you have mistaken that success that we had to great coaching.
As far as your list of small goals, how many of those are we actually doing?
Be the best at recruiting? Absolutely not. Are we the best recruiting team FROM VA right now? No. Are we the best recruiting team IN VA right now? No. Most of the talent is going out of state and that is a trend that needs to stop.
Are we a relevant recruiting in the east? I would hope we are somewhat relevant, but we are not that good even if the east is the only place we recruit. Recruiting has not been good at VT for a VERY long time and the results are finally showing now that we don't have a Vick or Tyrod at QB.
Be a threat to win our division every year? Well yes, because the ACC Coastal is an absolute joke. Nationally people are making a joke out of it that every team would finish 4-4 in the division. But right now, we can't even win in Lane Stadium.
If you think Frank should stay for another 3 or so years, sure. But to say VT's ultimate goal is not to win a National Championship is absolutely ludicrous. We even had a case sitting in the offices dedicated to the future trophy.
When you set expectations lower than ultimate victory you're never going to achieve ultimate victory.
Wasn't this the motto of Cobra Kai in Karate Kid? And those dudes were not nice dudes.
* joke *
Because by saying it's not a realistic goal, then Frank's defenders can argue that our last three seasons have not really been that far below expectations. See, it's all about shifting the argument in order to defend the fear of change. Of course, that same shifting comes directly from Frank & his messengers as well. For so long, they liked to remind us of the hollow ten win seasons, which featured no wins over elite teams. They liked to point to the empty trophy case as 'proof' (somehow?) we were in the national championship conversation, when the opposite was true. Now... those are sore subjects. They're reminders that we aren't even in the discussion.
The defenders of the status quo like to pretend that Frank built an excellent program but that it is a program that can only 'compete' for an ACC Coastal division title and nothing more. They ignore the logic that says an excellent program must expect more. I think Frank built a great program. I KNOW that great programs MUST aspire to more than competing for an ACC Coastal title. I also understand that whether Frank retires in January, or in January a decade from now - there WILL be another coach at VT. Our football program will not crumble, it will succeed. Those fearful ones cowering in the corners now, wringing their hands over the thought that Frank might not be around forever need to reach out and grasp reality.
what the hell did I just read? VT's goal always will and always has been to win a National Championship. Thats the whole reason we have that stand reserving it for the trophy. Will it be filled? I don't know, but I sure as hell wish it will.
That's gone.
If I were a player on this team...and I think the Hokie players would say the same thing...the goal is to WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP...they don't bust their ass year round to go out with the goal of having a fun season and winning the Beef O'Brady's Bowl or the Poulan Weedeater Bowl....
Its about competition and striving for greatness....not mediocrity. Hokienation does not accept a goal of mediocrity....
Set the bar higher....even if we never achieve it, we at least need to strive for the ultimate goal.
I once read a grantland piece (can't find it now) suggesting that what Beamer did on special teams was comparable to what Chip Kelly did to offenses. That's not something one can say about an 'ok coach.' Ok coaches don't have hall of fame careers.
Great ST coach undoubtedly, above average head coach, but not one of the best ever. It's not that I don't like Beamer, but a .429 Bowl record and I'd be interested to see his record in big games. Although, to counter my argument, team success is a group effort and not just the HC.
Disagree, Beamer may not be one the best coaches ever but he has been much better than an "above average head coach." He has undoubtedly been a great coach and has built VT from basically nothing into a top 20-25 program. Sure his time appears to be coming to an end but I just don't see how he was only an "above average coach" during his time at Tech.
Even when Hokie football isn't at its best, Beamer is easily still one of the current Top-5 or 10 FBS coaches. And most certainly he's the winningest active and has the longest bowl streak without an asterisk. If you want my personal opinion, he's also the most likeable and personable of any to ever coach at the FBS.
Out of the current FBS coaches he is definitely one of the tops. I admire Beamer for his ability to find success in doing things the right way and could go on and on about how great of a person he is. The point I was trying to make is that if I was in charge of a FBS team and could pick any coach I wanted because I wanted to win a National Championship, Beamer would not be one of my first choices.
The reason why I used the term above average coach was in comparison to his placement on a sort of all time ranking scale. I'm not try to play down what he has done for the program, but more so commenting on his on field results. His ability to build this program was tremendous without a doubt.
"Beamer has a 41-47-1 record overall (.461 win percentage) in bowl games or when facing an opponent ranked in the top 25. But when the Hokies have been ranked, Beamer is 32-24 in those "big games." Beamer is also 30-21 since the 1995-96 season when the Hokies went to the Sugar Bowl and the program announced itself on the national stage.
Much has been made about Beamer's 1-19 mark against top-five foes, but he's also just 7-30 against top 10 opponents and 15-31 against teams ranked in the top 15. And when compared to those 12 other head coaches, the only two with equivalent win percentages in bowl games or facing top 25 opponents were Fulmer (.500), Brown (.454) and Chizik (.412)."
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/hokies-journal/2011/01/a_closer_look_at...
2011 Washington Post article.
People say this all the time, but I just don't see the evidence to back it up.
Because it's not a boost to recruiting, nor are 10 win seasons in a bad ACC.
For some reason I always have trouble stomaching this argument. He's the winningest active coach probably because compared to those above him hes been a HC for longer. Obviously, that tends to skew statistics and I understand that any coach with the best percentage could lose the rest of the games in his coaching career and head to the bottom of the mountain. I'm not making an argument Frank should be fired because of this season or previous years combined. He's done a wonderful job with this program and is very deserving of all the accolades, but I just dont understand that statistic when you look purely at winning percentage as compared to other coaches who have been around for a while.
Yes, he has 14+ years on those listed below and that time span can account for a lot. College football and most sports in general have a "what have you done for me lately" mindset. That said, I don't think the "he's winningest active coach" argument is something to hang our hats on.
11. Brain Kelly
Years Coaching: 25
Record: 215-73-2 (.745)
20. Steve Spurrier
Years coaching: 25
Record: 223-84-2 (.725)
31. Bill Snyder
Years Coaching: 23
Record: 185-91-1 (.670)
36. Frank Beamer
Years Coaching: 34
Record: 270-137-4 (.662)
http://www.coacheshotseat.com/WinningestActiveCoachesIA.htm
I don't think it's a 100% game changer, but it's something recruits consider. It's another dollar in the bank, not something that a recruit hears and drops all other offers. Recruiting has been and always will be about building relationships between the school/program/coach and the recruit. This statistic is a tool that the staff should use to make the program/Frank look more glorious, and more desirable.
This is so depressing. I had really hoped we would improve this year and next and Frank could have a good year in 2016 and just walk away on top.
But we clearly need to have tough discussions now. I don't think it is black and white between FB walking away on his own terms and being shown the door. Whit needs to talk to FB about his legacy and transitioning, which I'm sure is an ongoing discussion since Whit arrived. This will likely go to a coaching search committee, but this won't be easy. But it can be done with dignity and success.
Yep, Whit is a businessman first and foremost. Im sure his wheels have been turning since he's arrived.
There is absolutely no way Bud does not take over as head coach. He could have left dozens of times over for better pay at better schools. Bud deserves his shot!
The thing is people are saying "Give frank time! He will turn it around! He has won so many games and has so much experience" are literally saying exactly the same thing that JoPa, Bobby Bodwen and Mack Brown supporters were said. Teams have been down this road before and we've seen how it ends. What makes you think it'll be any different?
In fact, teams like FSU and Texas have a much stronger recruiting hold than VT does. We're at even more of a disadvantage than they were in their down years.
Yes, change is scary. We might or might not bounce back with a new HC, but if we play our cards right and Whit knows what he's doing we can get someone who will light a fire in the program and bring it back. All I know is that I am 95% sure about what will happen if Frank stays because history repeats itself, and it's not pretty.
Completely agree with this. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results. What makes us so special that we will somehow be different than what happened at FSU, Texas or PSU? (completely rhetorical question right there)
Pat Narduzzi
Ed Orgeron
Mario Cristobal
Kirby Smart
Lincoln Riley
That would be my list in order
I like the Orgeron idea. If, hypothetically speaking, this transition happens after this season (I don't believe or hope it will), Ed will be available, if you act quickly. I believe he'll be a head coach somewhere next year for sure. He's an intense guy and a tireless recruiter. Players and fans alike seem to love him. I think he'll do well wherever he ends up.
I like Narduzzi, but I don't think there's a chance he gets this job. For whatever reason, DC's don't get HC gigs nearly as often as their offensive counterparts. If you're going to hire a DC as your new HC, it almost has to be Bud, given his results here and what he has done for this team and university.
I think too many fans live in the past when it comes to firing Frank Beamer.
This. I said it before in another comment, Frank is like a security blanket to a lot of people. It's familiar and people feel comfortable with it, but it's time to grow up and move on. Living in the past is what tanked a lot of good teams in the 2000s and it most definitely will happen to us as well.
I'm not in the camp that wants Frank Beamer gone immediately, but I do like to think about who our next HC might be. One guy that really intrigues is Mario Cristobal, offensive line coach/assistant head coach at Alabama. I have the same mindset as certain other posters that our ultimate objective each year should be to win the national championship. Cristobal could bring a lot to the table in achieving that goal. First and foremost he is a great recruiter, and that is one of the most important qualities to me. It takes elite recruiting classes to win national championships. He has strong ties to the fertile recruiting grounds in Florida and is experienced recruiting nationally. He's won 2 national championships as a player, so he knows what it takes to get there and win. He's a good age at 44, and has 6 years of head coaching experience at FIU where he used a spread offense. He's a former o-lineman and a very good o-line coach, which is our area of biggest concern in my opinion. He's coached under Greg Shiano, and he had the good sense to walk away from Miami when Nick Saban came calling. Yeah, I know that he's a Hurricane, but I have no problem with anyones alma mater (unless a wahoo) if he can be great for our program.
This is a well thought out, informative, relevant, not insulting, not sensational, all-around great post. Thank you
I vote for Beamer.
However, for the purpose of the thread, I will pretend that Beamer has stepped down and I am Whit Babcock looking for a new head coach. The first place I would look is Bud Foster. I think we lose him if we don't offer him the position. I don't think he would DC for a new HC. There is an opinion out there that Bud has been dimissed by a lot of schools, but to be fair, he was been very picky in who he would even talk with. He wasn't serious about coaching a start up team or else he would have already been hired. I would be very interested to see what Bud's offensive philosophy would be.
Second choice, if Bud just doesn't want it, I would look to the up and coming coaches in the lower ranks. This can be tricky though, it's not just about finding a guy in a lower conference with a winning record (Mike London). I'd be looking at character and history. If it works out, I'm hoping and praying he turns out to be a Hokie guy and doesn't use us as a stepping stone.
I'm thankful that I don't have to decide when Frank goes, but when he does, his replacement should be one of the following:
Virginia Tech is (IMO) the premiere football program on the east coast between Pennsylvania (PSU) and South Carolina (Clemson). These are (geographically) the closest programs that can rival VT's success. We should not settle for a coach with baggage or some other school's sloppy seconds.
I am not opposed to an 'up-and-comer' but I'd be very cautious/dubious of hiring someone who is unproven in a power 5 conference. IF we went the route, I would want this coach to have following:
The one exception to the above comments is Bud Foster. While part of me thinks a completely clean slate is necessary, I think that Bud Foster can be a great head coaching candidate if he can:
As for potential candidates (in no order, some stretches, others more obtainable, not 'restricted' to these coaches, there's plenty of good coaches I'm not aware of):
TL;DR - I expect our next hire to be on the lines on Charlie Strong/Texas, James Franklin/PSU, Bill O'Brien/PSU, Mora/UCLA, or BUZZ WILLIAMS/VT #WHITNESS
the thought of rob ryan coaching the hokies just kinda makes me chuckle.
please god no to o'leary or graham.
art briles would be awesome but i don't see him leaving baylor for us.
Yea, I don't think Rob Ryan would come coach here either, but that's the resume/caliber of coach I expect to replace Beamer. I'd like someone younger than George O'leary, but he too has the type of resume I'd like to see.
I don't know much about Briles, where he's from, etc. I threw his name out there b/c I think that VT is a slight step up from Baylor, given the larger revenue/brand name. At the absolute least, I think that it is a lateral move him.
EDIT: Just checked the google machine - every coaching job Briles has in his 35 year coaching career has been in Texas - He's not coming to VT, but again, that's the caliber/resume I expect our next football coach to have.
Some interesting names on that list, and it makes perfect sense what you're getting at.
Re: George O'Leary:
I get what you're saying, I just had to chuckle because - you know - Notre Dame.
3 year letterman in football at the university of new hampshire!*
also he literally made a running back do conditioning drills until he died.
*didn't play in a single game
I had no idea about this until just now.
Forget the whole, "he's earned it" excuse for keeping Beamer. Beamer should stay because, despite things going awry as of recent... sometime you have down years. We've been fortunate to have as many "up" years as we've had these past two decades. It feels bad losing 3 games in 3 weeks, but we're talking about a guy who's been here for 27 years.
Whoever the next coach is, I really hope Whit knows better than to hire someone with baggage. Out of everything I love about being a Hokie, I'm proud we do it the right way... let's not change that. If that means losing some games... so be it.
Not necessarily calling for Beamer to be gone...but hypothetically....
P.J. Fleck *clapclap**clapclapclap*
http://fox17online.com/2014/10/28/fleck-were-not-here-just-to-go-to-bowl-games/
P.J. Fleck *clapclap**clapclapclap*
P.J. Fleck *clapclap**clapclapclap*
http://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/2014/09/wmu_football_coach_calls_virgi.html
P.J. Fl - okay you get it.
I vote that everybody crack open an ice cold bottle of CALM THE FUCK DOWN.
Frank isn't going anywhere, nor should he. The team is young, guys are hurt, and the offensive line is still under construction.
We're going to beat Duke, Wake, and UVa. Then it's on to the Music City Bowl for a Grand Ole Opry Tailgate party. The team will get extra practice. Signing Day will come, and we'll all get jacked up about the sweet recruiting class. Brewer will kill it in the Spring Game, and Facyson/Fuller will have enough "did he just do that???" moments to fuel the GIFTORY reserves to carry us to August. Then finally, on Labor Day night, when Lane Stadium is packed to the gills, and Metallica is played so loud that Cody Journell can hear it from Ripplemead, we'll all have forgotten about all of the ridiculous things that were typed on this thread.
Carry on.
I wish (last paragraph)
Oh, if the New River could talk. What happens in Ripplemead flows down the New River.
We are indeed going to beat those three teams and the unlucky opponent who chooses to play against us in our bowl game.
I like your optimism...but since we are being hypothetical....
on Labor Day night, when Lane Stadium is packed to the gills, and Metallica is played so loud that Cody Journell can hear it from Ripplemead, we'll all have forgotten about all of the ridiculous things that were typed on this thread.
What happens if 5 illegal substitution penalties, 32 total Hokie rushing yards, 2 Brewer picks, 120 yards rushing by Braxton Miller and a 35-17 OSU victory later.....
Then what???
I would be sad
me too
Then we live our lives and let the people who get paid to do this manage the situation.
people being "johnny, jack, and jose?"
you misspelled sweat recruiting class
I agree. I'm still in the 2015 and 2016 will be Beamer's grand exit party with 1 playoff appearance another ACC championship and the back to back destruction of Ohio State at home andUT in front of 160K.
Could we be any deeper in 2016? Especially if the CB's stay. Not worried about QB either...
Personally I'd much rather us go for an OC or an offensive-minded HC. Our offense has been lagging for years (including the Tyrod Taylor Era). I'd love to see Chad Morris, Mark Richt (if that's possible), or some other offensive-minded person.
If we lose Bud, we probably lose Wiles, Torrian, and the rest of the defensive staff. We can't let that happen. I think it would be best if Bud gets promoted and Wiles and/or Torrian becomes the DC. Then Babcock can make a splash hiring a good offensive mind for OC.
We already know that the coaching on the defensive side of the ball gets more out of the talent we recruit, so it's safe to look at history and say that we have good coaches. Why screw that up and bring in an unknown quantity? The offense, which hasn't shown any improvement over almost 2 years, is a different story. We really need an OC who can get the most out of the talent we recruit, instead of essentially blaming our players and injuries for being at the bottom of the NCAA statistically. I know we have better talent than that, and all teams have injury bugs. Great coaches can adjust and not be downright awful.
I tend to agree with your comments about the defensive coaches, but they have muffed it at times over the years. As for the offense, maybe I have missed it, but I haven't heard the OC blaming players. Many of the players on offense this year are not those who played last year. They just put up 31 points on Saturday against a very good defense. Of course, we wanted and needed more to win, but that's on the defense this game which I thought looked no less awful than the offense - which by your logic should not have given up 33 points because Bud should have adjusted despite Williams, Maddy and Fascyon not playing. Those guys being out has hurt our defense and try as hard as Bud has it shows. Are there problems on the offense? No doubt, but one cannot discount youth, injuries and the influence of the head coach. I guess we will just have to disagree but I think the OC deserves one more year to see what he can really do. Whatever, we will know by the end of this month I do imagine.
Yeah, I was just commenting on the overall trends we've observed for the offense and defense. I agree that the defense underperformed this past week, but that is uncharacteristic. I think that the defense still held BC to less total yards than they usually average, when has our offense gained more than opposing defenses typically allow? The offense just regresses, and occasionally has a good game (e.g. OSU), and then the next week shows that we just got lucky on a lot of third down conversions, and the stars just happened to align to get the win. The OC blaming the players was just a comment on a tendency of Loeffler's after the Auburn debacle.
Anyway, I think if any changes are made, they will happen after the 2016 season. I doubt that the offense will be much more consistent than it is now at that time, and hopefully everyone will see the writing on the wall by then.
If Beamer goes I'd like to see Bud get it because he's ours and get Torrian to DC. Let Bud decide what to do with the offensive staff.
We do realize that other teams have significant injuries and freshman playing also....we seem to be overusing that excuse to make excuses for the 4-5 record.
I have seen players going down for lots of teams, all season. There are teams that are winning and IMPROVING, with injuries and young guys. The problem is, we aren't improving...
I don't recall seeing a long list of injuries by Pitt or Miami. Nor do i recall ECU or Ga Tech or BC or ... having a long list of injuries. Remember Maddy was playing hurt even at the beginning of the season, yet i remember seeing him down field in the Ga Tech game chasing down a running back.
While it may be painful for you to see them lose games ... i don't really care about their record. I don't bet money on the games. What i look for is the intangibles such as effort, desire and i saw plenty of that on the field each and every game. The wins will come, just be patient.
Every team has injuries and deals with them. If you want to use them as an excuse for losing to ECU, Pitt, Miami, GT, or BC...well, thats your prerogative.
The fact that we lost to these 5 teams says it all...
Effort and desire are important, but its the victories that pay the bills.
Would you be happy with 0-11 as long as they played hard?
i don't really care about their record. I don't bet money on the games.
So only people who bet on the games care about the record? I don't bet on the game and I root for victory every single week.....and it does matter to me if we win or lose.
Good for you if you accept effort and desire and don't care about results...I think most of the HokieNation would disagree with you on that....they want results also.
Intangibles, effort, desire, and a losing record have you home for the holidays watching movies on Lifetime Network instead of playing in a bowl game....
While i have been an avid fan for 47 seasons, there are other things that i can do with my life besides VaTech football ... growing my company, spending time with my family, golfing on Nassau, playing with my grandson.
And, leaving management of Va Tech sports to well the AD and his staff ... that's why we pay him the big bucks. Oh and the big money contributors, that's why they give the big bucks.
Wow, someone's feeling down today...
Screaming to "FIRE BEAMER" along with a couple of dollars gets you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. So you want to fire a legend? Good luck. I have been following Va Tech sports for 46 years. In the late 70's a rather popular coach Jimmy Sharpe was fired and people called both the AD and the University president. He was gone, the money people had spoken. It is neither good or bad, it is just that's the way it is.
So ... no matter how good your arguments, Beamer will coach the football team until HE decides to retire or the money people and the University decide that it is in the best interests of Va Tech for Beamer to step down.
You want to influence that decision ... then you need to have contributed large quantity of bucks to the athletic program over say 10 years at a minimum. You talk to your money people buddies and get them to agree with you.
then you might have a chance.
The question posed by VTBlackout was ... whom do you hire to replace him? And, what are the consequences to the program once Beamer is gone. Personally, i do not look forward to that day because i believe when all things are considered we have the best head coach in college football today.
Don't mean to be a jerk but this statement is a bit wrong. Yeah Beamer has done a lot for VT and he makes sure to deal with the kids in a great way/properly.. Yeah he is the winningest active coach but what has he done lately in terms of big deals? You can say ACC championships, Longest Bowl streak ect ect but sooner or later that doesn't mean a whole lot when you can never produce/get in the big games.
Beamer is obviously the best head coach VT has had but in college football, not so fast my friend.
Yes well selecting the best head coach in college football today is more than his win-loss record over the past 3 years. i still go with Beamer.
Me thinks another home game needs a big electrical rain storm and strike your car with lightning, then you will be less likely to use the phrase "not so fast my friend".
Using a line from a TV show ... "you know nothing John Snow".
It takes a lot of ocean to turn around a US Navy aircraft carrier, but once she faces into the wind, look out.
I don't see how this Jimmy Sharp story compares at all to this situation.
Jimmy Sharp was no legend.
First off, you are talking about the late 70's...he coached for ONLY 4 years, from 1974 to 1977.
His coaching record: 21-22-1
You are talking about 37 years ago...times have changed my friend. I really don't think this is a valid comparision or can be related to the current situation with Beamer.
Well keep flogging this dead horse vhokie and see where it gets you. I think you TOTALLY missed the point i was trying to make ... you can piss and moan all you want on this web site about firing Beamer. You can piss and moan to the Athletic Director and the Univ President and it will have zero effect.
Actually Reston Hokie, not once did I "piss and moan" about firing Beamer. I didn't scream "Fire Beamer". In fact, I didn't say anywhere to fire Beamer. My complaint was with the injury and youth excuses we are making. I do have an issue with not caring if we win and with your comment that "you don't bet on the games."
I would never flog a HorseOnAtreadMill....
I never said to fire Beamer anywhere in this thread.
You missed my point in my first post completely ... nor was i referring necessarily to you pissing and moaning. My use of the situation with Jimmy Sharpe was to say the fan base supported continuing "dad gummit" Jimmy Sharpe's tenure as HC, the big money donors disagreed. Jimmy was fired.
Enter Frank Beamer ... even if the lions share of the fan base wanted to see Frank retired to be replaced by a young dynamic up and coming head coach ... it will not happen until the big money donors agree.
My question to you is ... why blame anything or anyone for the five losses the team has sustained this season. It does happen from time to time. S--t happens. Instead there are certain parts of the fan base both here and at TSL who want to tear the team apart because they have lost a few games.
No... enter Bill Dooley. Then, enter Frank Beamer. We had winning seasons & went to multiple bowls under Bill Dooley. As boring and unlikeable as he was, we did accomplish that.
Right enter Bill Dooley, but it took big donors to put up the money to buy out Jimmy Sharpe's contract and pay for the concessions made to Bill Dooley. He had a list of demands as long as your arm. Most of those demands were about improving facilities. The money comes from the people whose name goes on the facility. I may be wrong but i do believe that a large donation for Lane Stadium came from the Lane's who own and operate Lane Furniture.
There are more respectful ways to say this same thing.
There was a Reston Hokie on TSL who would always get confrontational and condescending anytime someone was critical of the program or Beamer. Eventually the mods stepped in - wonder if it's the same one.
Actually, the mods were letting much more confrontational and condescending comments at the AD, coaches, and players go unchallenged. And all i have really said here is ... do you think anything you say here about firing Beamer will amount to anything? Unless you contribute big bucks year in year out, and get your big money friends to agree with you ... then the answer is no.
I gave up my paid membership to to TSL because i grew tired of reading the dribble people posted and arguing with members who one could not reason with, who has no management experience, etc etc. And if i keep reading the same kind of behavior here, then i will stop wasting my time and put it to more valuable use.
So tell me yak_butter are you one of those TSL members who one cannot reason with???
How's this for a suggestion - How about we let TSL arguments stay on TSL? How about we understand people are on here because they want to be on here, and if they wanted to be on TSL arguing the TSL arguments, they would be on TSL?
This is TKP - as in The Key Play. Leave the junk where you found it. Not here.
Hear, hear.
The comments recently have been a bit snippier than usual, and that's a product of our frustrations with our team. If that's the worst of it, then we're still above the bar for most Internet debates. I see nothing to indicate any preponderance of over negativity, flame wars, etc. We're an opinionated bunch, but I think even the most opinionated of members often cite valid information in their debates.
what part of my post did you find disrespectful?
Mark Richt. Bud stays at DC. Calling it right now...
I think Mark Richt is a good coach. But you might be interested to see the reactions many fans have been having for years towards him. The complaints read awfully similar to the ones people have now against Beamer
He also coaches at Georgia where if he's not in the SEC Championship game or Top 10 every year Georgia fans want to burn everything more so than we do right now.
Seriously doubt Bud will stay on if he's not the next HC...and I don't think he'll be the next HC.
Chip Kelly - talk about a 180 from our offensive woes
It's gotta be Foster - he's earned it. He's a great coach that has been able to adapt within games and seasons. If he fails I'd be shocked. IMO he's more responsible for the success of VT over the past 15 years than anyone. Imagine VT without his defenses and having to sit through O'Cainspring offenses and Beamer 'special' teams.
One could also argue that Bud's great defenses enabled Frank to overlook the obvious problems on offense for too long, leading to the mess we're in now. It's hard (for some, like Beamer/Weaver) to justify wholesale offensive changes while the team's putting up 10-12 wins per year. Do you really think that if our defense hadn't been able to bail us out time and time again, that the O'Cainspring offenses would've been allowed to fester as long as they had?
*Note: I do not mean this comment to disparage Bud Foster in any way. Just looking at things from a different perspective.
I kinda feel that had we not won the division, ACC, and Orange Bowl I'm 2008, changes would have been made then. I was also one of many students demanding Stiney step down as OC (even remember the fliers on every CT bin) during that season. In that respect, VT has been a victim of its own Beamerball success.
Suddenly I have a lot of nostalgia for Evans, Boykin, Coale, and most of all, Tyrod
I agree. My perception is that without Bud and everything else remaining constant, we'd be a lot more familiar with sub .500 seasons.
I just think Bud is the kind of guy that won't settle for less than best, and the dedication to have a plan and implement it. I can't see him being ok with sub-par effort from anybody - coach or player. It's odd that he doesn't pull in #AlltheRecruiticorns, but I bet he'd put together a staff that would.
Also, I don't think I added that I respect and appreciate Beamer. I'd love for him to rattle off a bunch of wins and post game of the nat'l championship, after he's done praising the opponent, he looks right into the camera and calls me a dumbass.
I just hate that we're in this position. The writing's been on the walls for a couple years now and here we are. It sucks to read things like "Yes, his schemes might be older than flip-phones and about as current as America Online" and then to immediately read something like "But we can't get rid of him." It's like we know we suck but can't do anything about it. Just a shitty situation all around. Still love my hokies forever and still love Beamer forever, just gotta wait to see how this whole thing plays out.
The only way I say push him out is if we can somehow get Harbaugh. I know we won't because Ann Arbor will be his home soon. But if there was a way we can get Harbaugh this offseason, then sorry Beamer but we have to do what's best for the program. Outside of an epic hire like that, it doesn't really make sense to push Beamer out.
Loeffler's different. I want him gone right now but at the same time I like what he does for recruiting. I said it on tkp as we were interviewing candidates prior to hiring Scot, "if the new hire sucks and we need to look for a new OC in a few years then so be it." I didn't factor the whole recruiting side of things though. Shitty situation all around.
I have been hoping CFB would retire for the past 5+ years. I know he took us as far as he could and I admire him for that. I think VT was on the cusp of being a truly elite program and missed it's chance to recruit the type of talent to make yearly runs at the NC. I think we have some star power left and can turn it around in a hurry but I don't think CFB has it in him. It's time for a breath of fresh air and I believe there is a lot of talented young coaches out there and with Whit at the helm he can and will bring one in. Not sure of the timeline but it has to happen sooner than later or we may reach the point of no return.
In the words of James Gayle...