keep seeing articles of people talking about its time for Coach Beamer to step down. Really it's just time for you to be a UVA fan....— James Gayle (@JGayle99) November 4, 2014
And u know how I feel about UVA lol— James Gayle (@JGayle99) November 4, 2014
That is all.
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Comments
Boom.
My favorite part in that movie.
that's great in all but IMO that isn't more than a player backing a coach.. what would you expect??
Is James Gayle giving any $$ to VT we don't know. If he is then great if not then I doubt past players voices will be taken with much credit/say. Its the Big $$ Boosters and ultimately what Whit thinks is best for the program.
Well considering that one clown/"insider" was saying that the players don't respect Beamer and that he's "lost the locker room," I think that's a pretty strong statement right there from a very prominent player.
Point taken but Gayle isn't in the locker room this year.. It's a complete 180 from the atmosphere gayle is probably use to.
You have 1 player that leaves then comes back and boom immediately inserted into line-up (albeit injury's required that but we also burned a red-shirt for 3 carries). You can't tell me that Joel Caleb is happy with the way he is being used and especially when players are playing ahead of him that were so called taking a break from the team.
I'm not saying he has lost the locker room but a couple more decisions like that and a 18-20 year old kid is going to be turned off and not want to perform.. Sadly that's the way it is.
Sure he isn't in the locker room but I'm pretty darn sure he still talks to players who tell him what's going on the locker room.
No I think random internet posters have a better idea of the locker room than a player who was here last year. One who probably hurt his NFL prospects playing hurt for the coach being talked about
Testify, grandpa utz.
I also don't think a coach should base his decisions around the fact that the 5th string running back is unhappy with playing time.
good point.... However when that 5th string running back is now moved into what should be 1st or 2nd due to injury's and is loosing snaps to a guy that returned to practice the week of a game/ wasn't even on the depth chart for 8 weeks that is a pretty shitty feeling... I can't be the only one that found that to be weird..
I found it weird as well, but I trust the coaches wouldn't have made that decision if they didn't think it was the best thing for the team.
I agree, just off of personal experience playing in college that type of stuff is tough to deal with.. Its a slap in the face. I just hate to see us waste Caleb especially since we all know he is a good athlete just can't find the right spot for him. He was an ATH in HS and sadly is an ATH in college :(
I wonder if there is a spot on defense for him. I have never heard any talk about it. I really hope he finds a fit somewhere.
I found three fumbles in a row, all by tailbacks, to be weird.
No TB has room to say much of anything. Much less get all up in their feelings.
Jerome has been with the team since camp but has not been part of the dress squad. He has been in practice and all the meetings. He was supposed to dress for Pitt but pulled a hammy in practice.
I do agree that Caleb should have been ahead of him though.
Joel should have insisted on staying at WR and truly learning the position so he could contribute on offense, or asked to move to defense. He could be a beast at the whip position.
Seriously. That Hokie5248 guy on twitter deserves a special place in hell.
Agreed. Also, we need to be better at detecting this:
I read that guy's rant on twitter and could not help but think the following...
1. This guy sounds like a whiny little kid that can't hold his liquor and loses control of his emotions to the point of self destruction...OVER A FOOTBALL GAME.
2. If he was as "connected" as he says, he would be talking to some big wig behind closed doors, not throwing a temper tantrum on twitter and making a fool of himself. I've got lots of things signed by Frank Beamer and personally know quite a few dudes that have played for Tech over the years, doesn't make me an "insider"
3. Just because a person donates money doesn't automatically make them a shot caller. I'm sure their opinions mean something but very seldom does one man's money control a program.
4. Even if the things he was saying are true, who cares? Every team has turmoil in the locker room when their season falls apart. What good did it do airing out personal problems between players and coaches? That was classless if you ask me.
Just my opinion on that whole thing.
Haha #1 on your post was my mindset. I saw all those angry rants saturday and was like:
Yep. I kept picturing that image of Eli Manning that was floating around for a while of him being wasted at some party. So sloppy, so drunk, so embarrassing.
"Teams that have great chemistry win games!" is the poster child for "correlation does not equal causation." Teams that win games have great chemistry. Which surprises no one. But let a team start to struggle and they will naturally start to squabble. And someone will say, "You know why they're losing? Because they're fighting all the time instead of working together."
Chemistry doesn't win games. Physics wins games.
So true. Have a leg for the play on words as well!
Also, let's not forget Percy Harvin was punching his teammates in the face the week leading up to the Super Bowl.
Player's seem very unified in press conferences. No finger pointing, no complaining, nothing. I find it hard to believe that Veteran players would keep quiet if they were that frustrate with the team/coaching.
other forums would suggest it's more than just one person saying it and said "clown" has been backed by several other "in the know" types. but this is all on the internets, so draw your own conclusions.
regardless, it doesn't matter what the players say. money talks and if the big donors stop backing CFB, he'll be gone (now if Gayle is a high-level donor, that's different). simple as that.
Turkey Leg for being a Reds fan! #YNWA
Turkey leg for irrelevant reasons to give turkey legs!
And We All know:
Ditto!
I doubt this is a matter of trying to make an impression on Whit. This is about the fan base, and it's about pushing back on that moron's assertion from last week that "former players support what I'm saying about the utter chaos of the program." He cites some former player, who never saw the field, "favoriting" his Tweets as evidence. For Gayle (a stud player and recent alum) to come out and try to smack all those detractors down carries more weight.
aren't both sides of the argument anectdotal at best? an ex player said he lost the locker room. another ex player said he's pro beamer. not sure one is better (more representative of the actual situation) than the other.
The first was tenuous at best: an ex player favorited a tweet from an "insider" claiming Beamer had lost the room. Today, we have multiple ex players rallying behind Beamer. So this is a bit better
^ This. At minimum, the claims are not as cut and dry as the original guy would have us believe. Moreover, I trust the word of a guy like Gayle, four-year starter and someone who only recently graduated, over a guy that spent a year on the scout team and who hasn't been part of the team in about 4 years.
my point is that gayle tweeting his support for beamer doesn't necessarily represent the entirety of ex players' opinions. the same can be said for the guy on twitter using the favorite tweet as his case for all ex players are anti-beamer. the degree of separation doesn't matter. both sides are using tweets to prove support or not, at large, and it's anectdotal at best. that's all. i'm not throwing my hat in either way.
Right, I understand that, and I'm not trying to say that one guy's voice is reflective of everyone's. I don't know if anyone who has made public statements about the situation within the program is right or not. I don't think any of us have solid evidence either way. What I'm mostly pointing out is that the guy who made inflammatory allegations on Twitter cited as his only evidence, effectively "some guy that hasn't been on the team in a long time likes what I am saying, therefore he agrees, so I am therefore credible."
Gayle and others (see below) are pushing back on that narrative. My personal view is that Gayle, Tyler, and Wilson are more credible than Internet Troll and the guy who hasn't been on the team in several years, but you're right that all of this is anecdotal. Sure, every side has a vested interest in their view of what is going on, but the only thing that is true in my mind is that the wild claims likely are not the whole story. They may be rooted in some kernel of truth, but could be wildly exaggerated. Or they could be a steaming pile of Hoo.
Well considering there were rumors that former players aren't happy with the the direction of the program, a 4-year starter backing Beamer is more than nothing.
I do agree, the big money folks will have their voice heard.
As for Whit, someone within the athletic department very close to the situation told me recently 1) There was no confrontation between he and Frank as previously alleged, and 2) The names being tossed around as a replacement for Frank aren't coming from Whit's mouth.
Double BOOM!
That is the best thing I've heard since "touchdown tech!" In the first quarter on Saturday. Thanks, Joe
so you're saying Whit has thought of/ is planning a plan B for when Beamer eventually decides to retire/step down.
That is good news!!!!
That I don't know. I was told the names out there are "bullshit" and I asked, just those names or ALL names and was given the same answer "all names are 100% bullshit".
Coaching search by throwing shit at walls confirmed
I get the distinct impression that Whit means it when he says he'll assess the full situation when the season is over and he's had a chance to talk to all the coaches. I also get the distinct impression from the Buzz Williams hire that he may have someone in mind, but I'm sure of one thig. Whit is competent enough to know that blathering about who he may or may not have in mind is a terrible idea. If he has someone in mind, it is exactly that. An idea in his head that he has talked with no one about.
seriously, this is the point people have to hear. how many people thought Buzz was the name that was coming? Whit keeps things locked down.
I'm sure Whit keeps tabs on who's available/looking, who he could possibly poach, etc. I mean, you've gotta have a contingency plan just in case no matter what. What if Frank has a heart attack or gets hit by a bus? What if Buzz just up and decides that Blacksburg isn't his cup of tea (completely making this up, but you get the point)? A good AD will be well-prepared no matter what, but won't feel the need to act on every idea that comes through his head (See Michigan).
He's said publicly that he keeps a 'wish list' of potential coaches for every sport. Anyone who runs a $60 million business has to have contingency plan(s) in place in the event someone important leaves.
That does not mean he plotting against Frank.
That's pretty much exactly what I was trying to say really. He has people he wants becuase it's his job. But that doesn't mean he wants them right now.
Whit sounds somewhat annoyed by all this. [I am assuming all quoted comments are straight from him.]
That, I understand. There seems to be a lot of noise and squeaking coming from a vocal minority IMHO.
Of course Whit is not openly discussing any potential replacements for Frank. First of all, Whit is an EXTREMELY capable AD. Secondly, Whit is EXTREMELY professional and wold never discuss his plans when they could get leaked to the internet by some admin assistant.
Look, any rational observer would understand that Whit is not replacing Frank this offseason, even if we lose the rest of the remaining games. Frank will get a minimum of 1-2 years to 'retire' gracefully, whenever that time comes. I don't really see Whit keeping Frank around after 2016 unless Frank can do better than a tepid middle of the pack ACC finish. After at least 3 years of that, Whit is going to have a serious, 100% private conversation with Frank, where Frank will suddenly 'decide all on his own' to retire. But that won't happen before January 2016. Frank coaches through 2016. I'd bet my life savings on that. I wouldn't bet a penny that Frank coaches the 2017 season, though.
As for former players coming out in support of Frank? That's really meaningless, except to those who fear Frank is about to be booted. He isn't, so it means nothing. I mean, it's nice that we know James Gayle doesn't hate Frank, but otherwise? Pointless.
I disagree, Gayle has more credibility than some guy that anonymously says he knows a disgruntled booster.
On the other hand, I can't recall seeing any Hokie Club donors on the field sacking opposing QBs.
Players matter.
Kids come to VT to play for Frank Beamer. Mama Fullers want Frank Beamer to keep their babies out of trouble.
its a double edged sword... keeping a clean program and winning titles sometimes don't play nice with e/o. IE- Auburn, FSU, Miami back in the day ect ect.
I for 1 love how Beamer runs his team in terms of dealing with off the field issues. I wouldn't trade winning titles with a team full of thugs and hoodies vs a clean program.
Hopefully the players can rally and finish the season on an upswing. There is still a chance at bowl, still time to build for next season.
God I miss James Gayle.
If only I could upvote this by x10000 times!
Better yet, if he only had three more years of eligibility for suit up and play for us.
Ah, Kanye. The only person I hate more than that Twitter Hokie2344 guy
Who is this Hokie(insert 4 numbers) guy that keeps getting talked about?
BTW, I do live under a rock...a very nice rock...probably nicer than your vacation rockhouse.
I advise not looking him up on Twitter, it will just make you angry and want to start a Twitter war with him most likely
I don't twit, but it sounds like this Hokie8008 guy is a real boob.
Do it.
Right On! Even after graduation, James Gayle is still himself. Hokies D-line could have used him this season. He would make a great LB at the next level. I dont understand why he is not playing in the NFL, CFL, if he is healthy.
He's a LB on the Titans but is on IR.
Didn't he have shoulder surgery again?
The Titans placed him on no recall waivers and an injury settlement. He won't be playing for the Titans.
James Gayle deserves a turkey leg. Joe can you find a way to make that happen?
This is all well and good; and Gayle is a good dude, extremely loyal. I'd like to hear something like this from any of the offensive players.
By no means am I claiming to be an insider in the current locker room, but I've known a few of the guys that played recently and I've been mentored by guys who played back in the 90s; no question do they all respect and would back Beamer if it came down to it, but the perspective is starkly different.
Jack Tyler joining the party
Former UM AD Dave Brandon approves this message.
The only thing I have an issue with is that he suggests that anyone showing frustration should go cheer for someone else.
That's not a healthy mindset for a fanbase. Frustration should be allowed and accepted. Serious debate on whether or not an employee should remain employed from those who give money that pay the salaries should not be silenced, censored, or deemed to be inferior. This is the mantra of the "true Hokie" bullshit we see elsewhere, and its incredibly insulting to anyone who is legitimately frustrated with the team.
Very true. Every time I see someone wailing about being a 'real fan' or a 'True Hokie' or whatever other code words that they use, I am reminded just how weak that person's own identity is, that they moan about others not parroting their thoughts.
I've been a Hokie fan for a while. If someone else is or isn't a Hokie fan, that doesn't change my mind. I have to chuckle at those who worry so much about why others don't mimic their own perspectives. If that means James Gayle fits my description of an insecure fan, so be it. You'd think a player would have more sense than that. Let's hope they all do.
Calm down Alum 07. It is not that serious. Football is just a sport. The Hokies are not doing too well this season but there is always next year. Hokie teams have given plenty of memory to last for many years. James Gayle is one of the student athletes that contributed to those memories.
Perhaps you should counsel James Gayle to also calm down if it is such a minor issue. Alum posted his thoughts. James Gayle posted his thoughts. Alum commented on Gayle's thoughts. And suddenly - we shouldn't take things so seriously? Alum's got just as much right to comment as James Gayle.
Some folks need to give up the ultra defensive posture concerning this underperforming football program.
That's just swell. An opinion is offered explicitly saying censorship should not be accepted, and your reply is to tell that person to shut up.
No, the problem is that dissenting opinions are greeted with dismissal even when they are expressed in a reasonable way. Some people thought Frank lost his edge almost half a decade ago. These past three years just compound onto that. A lot of what he's talking about is that people who are expressing their concern reasonably are being told "Calm down, Frank deserves to leave when he wants," "he made the program," "there's always next year," or "we've had it good for so long." And it hits a lot when there's an opinion that isn't Hokies are great no matter what they are told they aren't a true Hokie, or that was the gist of what is said.
There is reason for concern and discussing it and asking the tough questions doesn't make you a bad fan. Yes, it's just a game, but that doesn't mean you can't be upset with how something is going.
We have every right to be wrong on this site. I enjoy reading opposite opinions on issues, it's how I learn and grow.
+1 for you good sir. I don't want to have conversations within an echo chamber.
Is it really that surprising that Gayle would say that? If you had a boss/leader that you loved and random people that are outside the company/not well informed start publicly blasting him would you sit idly by? Not saying you're one of the uninformed twitter mass I'm sure he sees plenty of it and is tired of it. If twitter had a serious discussion option and he jumped in and said that while there was legitimate discussion going on, I'd understand the backlash, but if this is in response to people using a hashtag like #FireBeamer or the like and making one sentence tough guy statements I have no issue with that.
So... it's pointless. Gayle liked Beamer, and will defend him whether or not the accusations are accurate, because Frank provided him with the opportunities Gayle now enjoys. Juuust a little bit tinged with prejudice in the perspective there. And that's fine. It just needs to be acknowledged as such, instead of the way it is being treated in this thread - as though the hand of God reached out and touched Frank with purity. The only way this should be mentioned was if Gayle hated Frank for some reason. Supporting your coach begins in pee wee football...
I'm sorry, how in the world does this deserve 3 downvotes? My apologies if my opinion does not mesh with your thoughts.
The apologists - EDIT for acceptance- 'defenders' are REALLY big on downvoting right now in this climate where Frank is being questioned. Their world is all topsy turvy, so they're lashing out without thought. Just like when Stinespring was initially criticized...
If we're going to rail against things like "true Hokie," then the word "apologist" needs to go as well. It's just as condescending.
Alum, evening you out but that's all I can do it and it will only last so long. People are abusing the system, despite the efforts of many of us to get people to stop doing it.
Can't wait for that purge to hit. Too many are outright flaunting their abuse of the system and if something isn't done, the quality of community we have in here will degrade. Even more worrisome than the downlegs are the rise in insults recently. People are starting to get personal, and that's just not good.
I have seen things you people wouldn't believe The "we're doomed" flame wars of 2011. I watched shane-beams glitter in the dark with a season with no fumbles. All those moments will be lost in time, like [small cough] tears in rain. Time to die
Seriously though. Everytime we lose a game the downvotes and insults come. People just get really emotional after we lose. I take the opinion that the whole thing is out of our control and the best we can do is root for the team. I'm never going to stop loving the hokies no matter who the coach is and no matter what the record is. That's part of what makes the losing hard. It's because you know it cuts the kids just as deep as it does you, deeper even. These are their hopes and their dreams they're playing for out there on the field. When they fall short, they fall short in the hardest possible way.
Do we stop cheering for them when they're at their lowest point? I don't think so. Do we celebrate the losing? I don't think so either. It's okay to be a little melancholly after a loss, but a lot of people go way too far, and sometimes, you just have to accept that that happens after every loss.
If only you could see what I've seen with your eyes.
I see I have picked up a serial downvoter in this thread.
Glad to see this message was taken to heart.
And if you think "oh, this is just the Mod, he's not Joe, I can continue downvoting as much as I want"....
http://www.thekeyplay.com/comment/186884#comment-186884
I agree that there is an outlandish number of downvotes being thrown around right now for simply putting out an opinion that is nothing more than critical of Beamer & the football program.
That being said, please avoid the labels. "apologists" is a label that has its pure intention at cutting the opinions of others off at the knees by invalidating the posters themselves. There are ways to say the same thing while still respecting the opinions of others.
I'm a Frank "apologist" but will never down vote an honest opinion. Wanting Frank gone is a perfectly acceptable opinion. I think what gets under the skin of most folks is the constant picket line full of Fire Frank signs. The man deserves respect even if he does have one foot out the door. I think I will start my own picket line. STOP THE DOWNVOTING....STOP THE DOWNVOTING...
I'll agree with this. If your only contribution to the convo is a #FireBeamer hashtag, then you're just part of the noise and really aren't contributing to the convo. That said, if you're going to give thought out reasons and defend your opinion, you shouldn't be shouted down, downlegged, and silenced just because you have a critical viewpoint.
Make that 2, accidentally fat fingered one.
"fat fingered"...going into my regular daily vocab immediately. una pierna para ti!
I see your point and I agree that nobody is a "better fan" than anyone else. However, there's also no reason to be ultra sensitive over it either. If by James Gayle's definition someone that doesn't support Coach Beamer is a "fair weather fan" that's his opinion and he's entitled to it. If anything, I'd say he's earned the right to speak out about a coach he see's as a mentor. I seriously doubt anyone would tell him face to face that his opinion is bull shit as you suggest.
And you say that anyone that says someone is a fair weather fan or not a true Hokie must have some type of self esteem issue because they need other's to validate their opinion is kind of the same thing as jumping all over someone's case every time you get the slight feeling that they're insulting your Hokieness. At the end of the day, who really cares? I mean really. There's so much more important stuff in life. At least for me there is. I don't feel that my self worth or my accomplishments are in any way tied to the success or failure of a college football team, coach, player, or what another fan thinks of me. I actually feel sorry for anyone that does that. Unless of course they are a player, coach, or staff member of that football team.
My point is lighten up a little bit. I give money to the program, I travel pretty far to attend at least a couple games every year, hell my bloodhound is named Lane. I own more VT stuff than I can fit in my house, and all of our cars are proudly supporting the Hokies. But I really could care less if someone thinks I'm a "true fan" or not. I just love Virginia Tech football. I don't do any of that to earn my status as a Hokie. And I certainly don't care if anyone, especially people I don't even know thinks I'm a "true fan" or not.
I didn't mean to say that his opinion was bullshit, I meant to say the entire general mindset that any Hokie is better than any other Hokie is bullshit.
I spent 5 of the best years of my life at Tech. I busted my ass for years to graduate after partying my way to a horrendous GPA my freshman year that took entirely too long to climb out of. I missed the Stanley Cup Champs run of 2006 by my hometown team because I wast at Tech taking summer classes because I wanted to earn a VT degree. I lived through 4/16 with weeks to go before I graduated, and sat in Cassell as Nikki Giovanni gave her now infamous speech, knowing full and well that had that kid slept an extra couple hours that morning, I would have been sitting in class in 206 Norris Hall when he chained the doors shut. And even now, I participate whenever I can with my local alumni chapter.
Being a Hokie is a mindset that goes way, way beyond football, and its overly trivializing to define whether or not someone has earned the right to wear the maroon and orange on their viewpoints on who should be our head football coach. So you'll have to forgive me that when someone wants to tell me that my Hokieness is in question because I happen to think that our football program could do better with a coaching replacement, I reply with a prompt "go screw yourself".
That's awesome. The first place I went to after I was released from Walter Reed Hospital and could walk on my own was Lane Stadium for Tech's first home game of the 2010 season. I wasn't supposed to be around loud noises for at least 3 months because I was diagnosed with Traumatic Brain Injury from being blown up in Afghanistan. Does that make my opinion about a coach matter more than yours? No. Just like nothing you've gone through in your life makes your opinion matter more than anyone else's. It's actually kind of cheap to throw that into the debate if you ask me. My point is, who cares if someone thinks you're not a good fan because you want Beamer gone? Maybe Beamer visited that person's loved one in the hospital after that terrible tragedy and they have a deep emotional connection to him? Who are you to judge that person's feelings or opinions?
Absolutely not, everyone's opinion matters.
I disagree, because this is the point I'm trying to make. Everyone's opinion matters. Telling someone to go cheer for UVa because they happen to think x or y is bullshit, cause we're all in this together. Its insulting to everyone to suggest that anyone is an inferior Hokie because of an opinion.
I think we're trying to argue the same thing.
It's not insulting to me because clearly I don't care about other's opinion of me as much as you seem to and I realize that there's far worse things in life than someone calling me an inferior football fan. As far as us being all in this together...maybe. I feel like all it takes is a few tough looses for people to want to burn it all down. Pardon me if I don't view that as "all in this together". But I digress. For the record, I didn't down vote any of your posts, just firmly disagree over the sensitivity. I wish people would stop down voting just because they disagree. Got to get some work done, have a great day!
wow, ok then.
Forgive me if I think your views are completely our of whack.
Leg for naming your bloodhound Lane. Our Walker coon hound is named Beamer. #hokiehounds
That might be the best thing I've read all day. #hokiehounds
Full disclosure: our beagle is named Tebow (long story). But trust me, he's 100% #hokiehound, too.
My son's middle name is Foster.
My son was born in 2002. I wanted to name him Michael Vick. Kinda glad my wife vetoed that one. He would've had a rough couple years.
My yorkie's name is Beamer too
Upvoted mostly to offset the votes from people who clearly can't read.
HELL YEAH, JAMES GAYLE!!!!!!!!!!
Pretty certain James Gayle and Jack Tyler just handed the troll one of these:
and not a single F was given by any offensive players...
Edit- Offensive as in players that left due to discrepancies IE- drugs, suspensions or transferring. Beamer is a legit guy for sure. I mean how many coaches know how to do the shuffle, crank that and classical el paso dancing?
TRIPLE BOOM!!
Player 3 has joined the game.
Regarding Beamer's job security, I say Whit should let him stick around and give him another season to straighten things out. After all, Beamer turned down chances to head for more lucrative pastures in the past. He showed loyalty to VT. Who here thinks VT has the 10 win season run without Beamer staying? Foster would not have been here either, so the defense that made the streak happen wouldn't have been here.
VT was a stepping stone school before Beamer, as evidenced by the times he had chances to go somewhere else. After Beamer, VT will still likely be a stepping stone school. The location and resources just aren't on par with bigger programs (yet at least). We got lucky Beamer thought with his heart more than his bank account balance. It brought us a lot of success. We're not likely to get lucky like that again regardless of when Beamer is no longer HC.
Give the man a chance to fix things. That's my opinion.
You might not be old enough to remember, but Frank certainly grabbed an opportunity to go to UNC while he was at the crest of his Michael Vick wave. The ONLY reason he did not was because he insisted that his entire coaching staff and all the admin people in the department leave with him. That would have gutted the entire football program 100%, which Frank was willing to do. Yet, his staff - coaches & admin assistants - refused to do so. They stood up & told him 'No'. Thus, a negotiation was reached with VT (Torbush, specifically) and Frank stayed. So, whenever I hear about Frank's undying loyalty, I am reminded we discovered the limit of it way back when. No matter what spin is now put on it, that did happen. So, let's all step back and understand that Frank, Whit, and everyone involved understands that this is a business. There will come a time when Frank needs to leave. It can be coined whatever is necessary for his ego, and that is fine. But... there will come a time when he needs to leave. That time is pretty darn close. It's not this offseason, or even next. But... it's awfully darn close.
That's a level of detail about that instance I've never heard before. Is that in his book?
If it's true, it sounds to me like rather than looking for the exit, Frank made an absolutely ludicrous demand when UNC came calling, and requested an impossible to turn down offer from them. It's crazy that UNC would have accepted that sort of deal. That would have not only gutted VT, but would also have gutted UNC's Football operations.
Of course that is not in his book. it is not a flattering perspective, so why would someone put that in their book?
This was all pretty well known at the time. Frank negotiated. Frank likes stability - who doesn't understand that? UNC was changing anyway, they were 'the big dog' in the region as far as cash, prestige, and potential. Anyway, that was Frank's concept. He got back to Bburg, and his people told him they weren't as thrilled about moving as he was, so to speak.
That's an old tangent, and moves away from the present point. This is a business, and there comes a time to change. Whether now, or 2016, or 2018, or 2028, the people who pretend the program will collapse without Frank are wrong.
Wow, I'd never heard anything close to what you're saying. Are you close to Frank or did you work in the athletic department? Just wondering how you knew that's how it went down.
He talks about it in his book a bit. And I don't think the program will collapse without Frank, but it's far from a guarantee that it'll take off or even stay the same under someone new.
He talks about demanding the entire football and admin staff leave with him? And then only stays because that falls through?
That's the claim I was asking about.
The same could be said for every single coaching change ever made in college football. If we're so afraid that we have to have a certain guaranteed locked in the bank certainty that the next coach will be able to produce at least a 6-6, 7-5, 4-5 (thus far) regular season record, why then... then we would have basically the same expectations as every other program in the nation.
Because that is what Frank has done in the last three seasons. And that is what we're asking Whit to find - somewhere, in the entire nation, a football coach that can take control of a solid program that has been continuing for three decades at the same level, and raise that level by about two wins a season.
Yeah, that's an impossibility. Or so some shivering folks would have us think.
Doesn't matter. it won't happen until 2017 any way.
Ahhh.
So.
#sources
Gotcha.
Grain of salt status: Taken.
In Frank's words:
In November of 2000, we had just lost that heartbreaking gameat Miami 41-21, largely because we didn't have Michael Vick and Andre Davis, both hobbled with ankle injuries. We bounced back to beat Central Florida in Orlando and returned home with a 9-1 record and a week off to prepare for the regular-season finale at home against Virginia.
North Carolina athletic director Dick Baddour called me, wanting to talk about the Tar Heels job. He was about to fire Carl Torbush. We talked a while and I was very intrigued with what he had to say and with the prospect of taking the Tar Heels job.
Cheryl and I wanted to get away to our house at Lake Oconee, Georgia, and Dick told us to meet him in Charlotte. We talked through a third person in Charlotte, and Cheryl and I drove to the lake house to think about our future, knowing we had an off week ahead of us. I took a few days, I talked to him again, I talked to Cheryl, and on Saturday, November 18, I told Baddour I would accept the job.
It would be one of the biggest mistakes of my life.
I didn't tell a soul other than Cheryl and my trusted assistant, John Ballein.
We prepared well and beat Virginia 42-21 the next Saturday to finish 101. Cheryl and I then flew to Chapel Hill on Sunday morning, November 26, to work out the details. I had totally convinced myself it was a great opportunity. In fact, I knew it was. I also knew we could win big at North Carolina. They had great facilities and support from the administration.
Once we arrived that Sunday, we toured the Dean Dome and all the football facilities and met everybody in the administration. They took me to meet the president and offered me a glass of hot cider, somewhat as a toast to the future.
I never signed a contract and they wanted me to stay that Sunday night and have the introductory press conference on Monday morning.
"No, we have to get back to Blacksburg tonight," I told them.
I know they were thinking if we got on that airplane to come home, I would change my mind.
And that's exactly what I did.
That Sunday night at my house, I got to thinking about everything. North Carolina had great facilities and great potential to win football championships to go with the many they already had in basketball. I knew we could win there. Some football coaches may have been scared off by what great basketball North Carolina always had, but I always thought that would be a plus. I never worried about basketball. What was most important to my decision-making process was the fact that those football facilities were built on somebody else's blood and sweat. They weren't built from my work.
What we had at Virginia Tech at that time, on the other hand, and what we have built for the future, were built largely because of the success we had since 1993.
Another thing was that our daughter, Casey, was in school at Virginia Tech at the time. How would she feel if we up and left for North Carolina while she was a student here? And how would she be treated if I left to take another job?
But most of all, I realized how much I loved Virginia Tech. I loved the people at Virginia Tech and the relationships we had developed over the years. I loved the town of Blacksburg. I knew that was -- and always would be -- my home. I realized there was no other place I would rather be.
I didn't sleep at all that night, weighing both sides of the decision.
"Whatever you decide, we will do," Cheryl told me. "You always make pretty good decisions."
I woke up Monday morning, or basically got out of bed since there is no waking up when you don't sleep, and I thought to myself, This is my alma mater. This is where I want to be. And this is where we will be as long as I am coaching.
I headed to the office, where everybody waited on my decision. When I walked up to the football facility, I noticed a few people carrying signs, such as "Don't Go Frank" and "Honk If You Want Frank to Stay." It felt good to be wanted.
By now, I had alerted my staff about what was happening. I think my assistants expected me to take the job even though they didn't know how far the discussions had gone. It wasn't very long after I arrived at the office when Dick Baddour called me. I didn't take the call, because I was a flat-out mess, a real basket case. I went upstairs to Jim Weaver's office and met with him, along with the school president, Dr. Charles Steger, and Minnis Ridenour.
As we talked, it became clear that if I stayed, they would offer what I wanted all along -- for my assistants to be taken care of with more money and better contracts. I received a raise, too, but my staff being taken care of was my main concern. I thought they had been vastly underpaid and that was the one issue that led me to listen when people called asking me to interview for other jobs.
I came back downstairs to my office and I called Cheryl at home.
"I can't leave honey," I told her. "We're staying."
I called all of my staff into a meeting.
"We're staying," I told them. "I just feel like I want to stay and get it done here -- not somewhere else."
At this point, Michael Vick hadn't decided whether he would return for his junior season.
"Whether Michael does or doesn't come back, it doesn't matter." I added, "I just can't leave."
I immediately felt support from all of them. One by one, they told me they would have supported me no matter what my decision was. That meant a lot to me.
Then came the hard part: I had to tell North Carolina.
I called Dick and I started my explanation, "Listen, this is nothing to do with you. It's me. I just can't leave here. I love this place and it's my alma mater. I want to tell you that you did everything right. It was perfect, but I just can't do it."
There was silence on the other end. I could tell he was upset and I understood why he would be, but he didn't say too much. He never yelled at me or anything like that. It was very cordial. He was a professional and I appreciate that to this day. Dick ended up hiring John Bunting and I think he has forgiven me over time, but it took a while. He was very cordial to me in recent years during the ACC meetings before he retired.
After the entire thing was over, I was relieved. I knew I made the right decision and I had no regrets. Not only did I not have regrets over the years, but every year that passes reinforces my belief that I made the right decision.
As a competitor, I may wonder "what if?" as far as how many games we would have won and all that. But then again, I would have wondered about the past 12 or 13 years here at Virginia Tech if I had gone to North Carolina. I also know that I just can't live my life with "what ifs" in my mind. Nobody should.
The fact is, we were in the process of building something at Virginia Tech that was very special to me and I wouldn't have been able to say that had I gone to North Carolina.
Of course, the one regret I do have is that I went back on my word. My word has always been solid my entire life and this was the one time I broke it. But I broke it for a good reason, probably the best reason: loyalty.
That is a word I mention to my coaches when we meet to begin every season in August. Be loyal to each other. Be loyal to yourself and be loyal to your school. My loyalty to Virginia Tech, and everything it stands for, won out in the end. Virginia Tech stuck with me after that 2-8-1 season and I never forget that. And I never will.
Edit: formatting.
I'll take revisionist history for $800, Alex.
read the true story here:
http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/loyalty-report/201310/frank-beamer-virgi...
That's not exactly the story I remember. Here's my recollection:
There was a time when Frank used to be a very hot coaching commodity and was connected at quite a few jobs every off season including Alabama, The Green Bay Packers and a host of others.
After our national title run, UNC called him during the 2000 season and he went to interview and fell in love with the school primarily their deep pockets for facilities and promises of pay raises for himself and his entire staff and their promise of commitment to football. Meanwhile at Virginia Tech he was having a difficult time convincing Jim Weaver he needed more money for his staff and I'm sure himself as well as an upgrade in facilities.
While he was a Hokie alum and had built the program, you also have to look that Fancy Gap is just up the mountain from North Carolina and UNC was not an unfamiliar place to him so it really wasn't that big of move geographically speaking and he could keep and even improve his current recruiting base in both Virginia and North Carolina.
Frank left UNC and had verbally accepted to be their football coach before he left, but didn't sign a contract. Once he got back to Blacksburg the word got out and immediately fans started taking action. Us college students at the time starting creating banners for Frank not to leave and posted them on the Merryman Center doors during the night so Frank would see them when he walked through (not really sure how much of an effect we had). Additionally, some of the big time donors made calls and former VT President Paul Torgersen was called in and helped mediate an agreement between Jim Weaver and Frank Beamer to get the coach what he needed to stay.
In the end, Weaver recanted and many say lost a major power play with Frank as Frank got what he needed for the football program to continue to grow. Now I do know some of the coaches such as Billy Hite talked to Beamer and tried to get him to stay at VT and talk him out of leaving. I remember being at the Merryman Center in the morning and seeing all the media and talking to Billy and asked him if Coach Beamer was really going to leave. Coach Hite looked at me in the eyes and said, "I don't know".
So while I do agree with you some of the coaches helped talk Frank into staying the biggest reason he was leaving was because he wanted more money for his program and assistants and until he had agreed to leave VT and coach at UNC, it hadn't happened with Jim Weaver.
Funny note about Torgersen meditating: he was never in the meeting. He was in the building to get something he had left there, talked to someone in an adjacent office (not the same room as Beamer/Weaver) for a few minutes, then left. On his way out the press asked him how things were going, and he, not thinking anything of it, said things were fine. When it was announced Beamer was staying, the stories included Torgersen as a mediator, even though he wasn't involved! He just never bothered setting it straight.
At least, that's how Dr. Torgersen tells it circa 2014
Torgersen told us this story in his Theory of Organization class. I believe he was getting his watch that he forgot in the athletic facilities the day before.
Best class ever. So many cool stories (that's where I heard it too)
#sources
I disagree with this
.
Why do you think so low of your school? VT over the years I have come to know it (2008+) has been a perpetual Top 25, maybe top 15 school. We have hit a rough period of time now but this isn't Western Michigan. Are we going to hire Nick Saban away from Alabama? Probably not with out a ton of money but could we lure someone else way from another school? Definitely! Maybe that's the homerism in me but I know for a fact that I CHOSE to come to Virginia Tech. I was accepted to other colleges but I knew I wanted to come to the greatest school in the world. This program that Frank so lovingly built is not going to crumble once he's gone. Too many people care entirely too much to let that happen.
I'll leave you with this. My hometown team is Rutgers. Basically my entire family went there. Greg Schiano built that program, which was one of the worst ever, to at least a relevant team. He bolted for the NFL (his biggest mistake ever). The program didn't crumble after he left. Rutgers won a share of their first ever Big East title the year after him. They are now in the midst of their year in the B1G. They're getting their asses handed to them right now but that was to be expected. The reality is that they haven't crumbled. They are growing and with time will continue to improve.
Virginia Tech will not crumble when Frank leaves.
I second Inferno. I think VT is now easily a top 25 program/job. We are the premiere football program in the mid atlantic. Clemson and Penn State are the two (geographically) closest programs that have had comparable results over the past 2-3 decades.
VT may not have the prestige of a Michigan, Bama, ND, USC or FSU, etc, but we have enough history that a coach can get some good recruits. The ACC + ND is competitive enough to get national recognition, but far easier than the SEC to go undefeated (and make a playoff). I think that when the head coaching position opens, a lot of coaches will realize this.
WVU?
who?
some people are reading way to far into these tweets.
This has gotten a little crazy, and no one should be cheering for uva. Ever.
Just wanted to say that I think Frank Beamer is a great man and I am proud he represents our program. I will be sad when he leaves. I also wish we were better at football right now.
this man. i like this man.
James has a special hate in his heart for UVA.
Well, maybe I still think it might be time for Frank to start thinking about the end game here. And no, I won't cheer for UVA. Sorry.
Wow, what a few losses will do around here. This reminds me of another tech message board at points...
I know this - This all boils down to the oldest problem in the book, we want to win all the time, and unfortunately we had gotten real used to it. We aren't getting what we want.
Grow up, man up, and take it like men.
I want VT to win, is Beamer getting it done right now? No. Do I think he's lost it?
Myself, LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE ON HERE DO NOT KNOW THE MAN.
I repeat - Nobody here really knows. We can read tweets, interviews, body language, anything else on the planet and hope to know the story but we do not. We do not know the conversations in the locker room, in the coaches meetings. Diddly squat really.
There are always unhappy people on a football team, you only hear about it when a team is losing. Everybody always thinks they can be the next best thing, when your team is winning your voice is drown out by the chorus of praise. When they team is losing, the "What if" scenario can get loud. Nobody likes loosing, if you play at VT there's a good chance you won a lot in high school. Now you are losing.
Why?
Again, myself, and NOBODY HERE knows exactly why.
It's o.k. to be upset, drink a few more beers than you planned, be a bit grumpy, and not watch much football.
It's ok to not agree.
But being crass towards others, on differing opinions about football. That's 3rd grade playground drama
Thank you for a great outlook. The desire to win is relative. 6-6 teams want to be 10-2 who want to be 12-0, who want to be the team that wins it all, and then the team that wins it all comes to expect it every year. Winning is hard, everybody is trying to do it and half are disappointed each week.
Yup, and 127 teams will fail to win the national championship this year.
#Fire127